Karel Prince: Lie Detector - Danny Webber

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0:54Yes, people, it's Karelle Prince here. And Anita Abayami. We are the new resident fact-checkers here at the BBC. Every week we'll bring you three wonderful stories from the world of football. Two being lies, one being the truth from ex-pros. And using our detective and analytical skills, we're going to try and weed out the truth from the lies. Anita, you ready to go? I'm ready. Let's do this one. Let's have a look at this. Right, DW. DW. I've got one, straight up. Go on. DW from Arthur. I thought it was double D. No, it's DW. Is it? Yeah, it's DW. DW. you? DW's Alpha Sister yeah I thought it was sister or friend I think sister little sister I've got a natural footballer Danny Welbeck legend legend one of my favourite players ever man I truly love Danny Welbeck what do you love about Danny Welbeck truthfully it's his ability like to score the type of goals that not many strikers can like he'll like contort his body in certain ways get a flick get a volley like he's not your but he's not just going to shift and finish.

2:00Yeah, it's like you can cross it in and you'll get that little back heel. And I think that's necessary. Interesting career as well. All right, let's open up the case files. Ah, Danny Webber. Okay. Danny Webber. Daniel Webber. You're giving everyone nicknames. I believe he goes by Danny though. Yeah, but stop giving them nicknames. Okay. Webs. Webs, Webster. Webster. Started at Manchester United. Okay. And as you can see, if you look in his youth career, it says Fletcher Must Rangers. That is like the pipeline to the Manchester United Academy. Okay. A lot of the players who come from South Manchester who play for Manchester United probably started at Fletcher Moss Rangers.

2:38Oh, wow. It's the breeding ground for United Academy players. Spells at Man United. A few loans there. Went to Watford. Sheffield United. There's actually a funny clip of him at Sheffield United with Neil Warnock. Doing what? Neil Warnock is a walking meme, ain't he? He's just a meme. You can't die for three points. So the video goes that he's in the changing room. Yeah. And apparently he just didn't like injured players around him. Neil. Yeah, he didn't like the sight of injured players in the changing room. His bad vibes. So Danny must have been injured and he's just sat there in the changing room.

3:13And you just hear him go, Danny, go get a shower. You're going to make me sick. Can you imagine tearing your ACL and Neil's like, get out of my sight, mate. Get out of my sight. Yeah, some managers are superstitious. They don't like it. Yeah, don't bring that bad aura around me. And then interestingly enough, you know, as we fast forward, 2014 to 2016, Salford City. That was back when they were in non-league. Wow. I actually was at the game that they beat Notts County in the FA Cup, which was like at the time, like a massive, like giant killer. You were quite young then though, weren't you? Yeah, without saying, yeah.

3:46Maybe I need to fact check that. I met Ian Wright that day. I've got a picture of me and Ian Wright from that day. I think you should show me that. And a picture of me and Paul Scores. After this podcast, I think you should show me that and I will check the case files for that. I'll send it to the people and they can insert it. And I will send it back to my sources to see if we can validate that claim. I don't lie. I don't need to lie. I'm just saying he was at Salford City at 2014, 2016. How old are you? Like 10? How old do you think I am? Hey. You think I'd wear a trench coat if I was 10 years old at that point?

4:16Yeah, I think you wore a trench coat when you came out of the womb. It was a leather jacket actually. There we go. There we go. It was even in the summer as well. I'm a summer baby. Okay, this is Danny Weber. at Portsmouth. Okay. This, he was there from 2009 to 2011. This was a dark time for Portsmouth, by the way. This is around the time like they started going into administration in the Premier League. They had the points deduction, got relegated. I remember that. They went to pre-season the next season, had about six players signed on. Jesus, I remember that. Yeah, remember Portsmouth were like, in my childhood, they were a Barclays team.

4:49They used to be big time, yeah. FA Cup winners. And then, after this, they end up in League 2 at a point. and it's nice to see them back in the championship. Next picture is Danny Weber and Neil Warnock. One of my favourite gaffers. You know, if Neil Warnock was Spanish or Italian and said the things that he said, they would write books about the quotes that he does. Give me your quote. Because if you put a Neil Warnock quote next to a Pep Guardiola quote or Arteta quote, you're not going to know who said what. Arteta said, Oh, Edison invented the light bulb So we have to shine Or something like that And Neil Warnock said He said You gotta die for three points My missus could have played against you Do you know what?

5:39Fez Yeah You just gotta add a Spanish accent to it And it'll be fine What is that? Is that hand sanitiser? Or is that an alarm? I actually don't know what that is I couldn't tell you I'm looking at him pretty deeply And I couldn't tell you I see your finger I have no on a device we're gonna hear out what is said and then I'm sure we can work out what that is from there let's try and use our brain power why would you like to make my life harder do you know what because I like there's beauty in the struggle I always say that there's beauty in the struggle beauty in the struggle there's no beauty in the struggle there's beauty in the struggle I heard what I wanted to hear alright next one that's a security camera CCTV how did you get that from this one turn it sideways other way audio listeners she doesn't know which way a CCTV camera goes it is a CCTV camera apologies apologies apologies don't look at me like that no I'm just I'm just wondering he's looking at me as if I don't know what I'm doing you don't know what a security camera is how are you supposed to surveil the truth and the lies if you can't tell I use my naked eye put some clothes on it then because it's clearly not working

6:50I can't stand you and the last one is you should know this man very well one of my faves well one of my faves that I'd love to hate Avram Grant yes yes yes because you're a Chelsea fan I am a Chelsea fan massive Chelsea fan how was Moscow Moscow Moscow Moscow was traumatising for me actually thank you for asking thank you for thank you for bringing up my traumas this is a man that once he took over Chelsea actually lost the league cup final to Tottenham of all clubs Of all clubs to lose it to. Lost the Champions League final to Manchester United. Of all clubs to lose it to again. Lost the title race to Manchester United.

7:27Of all clubs. And I believe in that season was knocked out of the FA Cup by, do you know? No, Man United. Barnsley. Barnsley. We got knocked out by Barnsley. 1-0 at Oakwell. Are you sure that was that season? Yes, it was. 07-08. It was a season to forget for sure. Yeah. But that's neither here nor there. We are talking about Mr Danny Webber. And we've got three videos from Danny Webber. Hopefully giving us some context to these photos Which I have no idea where it's leading us So all we can do is roll the tape on the first one And hear what he's got to say Let's see So when I joined Sheffield United Oh look at webs He's a proper man, can't he?

8:05When I joined Sheffield United There was two dressing rooms side by side So you go on the training ground There was one on the right hand side And the one on the left The one on the left was the members dressing room So there's a guy called Rob Cosluck One of the funniest people you'll meet in football and on my first day he says, Webs, do you want to be a member? I said, well, what's a member? He said, well, if you buy a gift for the room, then, you know, there's lots going on in here. There's different pool table and all sorts. He said, you can be a part of this room. So I said, come on then, right?

8:35So I joined the members room and you have two weeks to buy a gift that if you gift rubbish, they throw you out. So I'm thinking for days, like me, Phil Jagielka have gone in at the same time into that dressing room. We're thinking, what do we buy? so Jags bought a table tennis table and I was thinking right what do I buy there was remember the beads that you have in your nan's kitchen there was those beads there was a there was a young lad that had bought dressing gowns with everybody's name on it so it's little novel gifts but if it was acceptable to everybody then he stayed in it was a stereo there was disco lights all coming back to me so I ended up buying a CCTV and fingerprint entry for that dressing room it got accepted so in that dressing room there was two cctv cameras and a fingerprint entry for every member wait so this is like a secret boys club why are you buying security cameras i don't you surely don't want any evidence of what's going on in there and why are you getting fingerprint scanner it just seems a little bit extra okay table tennis table i can imagine that what's that 100 like what's that 2005 maybe or 2006 yeah 100 maybe yeah yeah probably less This is a security camera and fingerprint scanner.

9:48I'm not even going to look at where it is now because I know we've got all sorts of biometrics. But back then, surely that's a pretty penny. When did fingerprint scanners even become a thing to just be accessible like that? It's been a while. Has it? Yeah, like, I mean, like in Mission Impossible, they were using fingerprints. They were using eye scanners. So there's got to be fingerprint before that. That's Mission Impossible though. No, but I'm saying like the technology was there for a while. So I'm saying by the time he's at Sheffield United, it's widely acceptable, no? Nobody said it was a good one either Yeah you're right Judging by the photo It was definitely a cheap one I'll tell you that But also My thing is It's not just Buying the equipment He said everyone Had a fingerprint That was part of it So do you need someone To come and You have to set that up And set that up Yeah you do And then you have to set it up For new members So the running cost of this Seems quite high Just to get in a room You're looking at The running cost For a footballer Yeah and he was like Someone bought a stereo Someone bought disco lights Someone bought dressing gowns but you bought CCTV and fingerprints I don't know man Danny I don't know man I feel like the cost of it is absolutely fine he's a football player so he can afford anything but it just doesn't make any sense regardless I still feel like you wouldn't want to like overspend in comparison to other people why not because it's like it's almost like you're begging to get in or you're making it a safe space for everybody and you're showing everybody that this is a safe space hey listen I don't know maybe he's extra like that because this is a very extra story and did you see the way he was like oh it's all coming back to me now can't fool us yeah but then he could be he could be telling the truth and I just think I don't know why he would do such a thing he could be and if he is telling the truth maybe we drop him a DM after and ask him if everything's okay because I don't know why he'd be doing all of this it's so extra he was like 20 years ago he's probably over it now nah did you not see the way he said it's all coming back to me as if it was a great memory I'm telling you He believed that he did a thing there How did he call shopping for it though?

11:46That's what I'm feeling Like did he Was there surveillance stores? Corral, he is a footballer Is it like Is it like Yeah mate I need CCTV cameras Oh what's it for? The boys club At Sheffield Firstly, I'm sure he didn't use This kind of telephone This telephone is probably made In like what? The 30s I don't know when it was made My point is I don't know how you go about getting it I don't know where you get the number For someone that can get that Unless it's the same person That did his house Back in the day Football players had access to so many different things that we just didn't know about.

12:16Just because you've got social media now, doesn't mean back then they weren't accessing things that we didn't know. Do you know what I mean? You've got to think about it this way. When the ballers were going to the club and stuff, they only got caught on the newspaper. If they're always worried, because they always say, back in my day, there was no social media, no cameras, whatever, but then you've installed cameras in what's supposed to be the safe space of the thing. That's where it doesn't feel Look, the story just does not add up to me. The story doesn't seem believable at all, but we've got two other stories to listen to, so we'll figure it out.

12:50Shall we get into the second one and see if this one sounds a bit more believable? Yes, let's do it. All right.

13:38We'll be right back. questions about it. Like so many questions. Yeah. I'm not a scientist or a data collector or whatever you want to call it, but am I losing muscle mass? No. Am I building it? Maybe a little here and there. So, you know, what aspects of creatine contribute to that versus how many times am I going to the gym? You know, who knows? Therein lies the rub, right? You want to think that you're doing something good for your body, but I don't know how to measure that. Could this work for endurance? Could it work for a muscle mass maintenance in the elderly? Could it work for brain health?

14:16These new research studies coming out have really triggered a lot of interest because now you're taking a well-studied supplement and saying, well, what if it did these other things? And that's exciting for folks. Listen to the full episode of Health vs. Hype with the American Medical Association on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All the cricket you love lives on BBC Sounds smash straight back down the ground this girl hear ball by ball coverage of the biggest competitions on the domestic and international circuits it's a ball cricket and it's the huge one crickett on 5 Live Sport listen on BBC Sounds This is story number two.

15:09Let's roll the tape on this one. So I was playing at Portsmouth and Avram Grant came in to replace Paul Hart. So obviously when the manager first comes in, you go shaking everybody's hand and you sort of introduce yourself and he's sort of familiarising himself with all the players. And when we went out on the training pitch, again, to break the ice a little bit, he sort of went round to everybody asking questions or trivia questions, general knowledge and a bit about football. and I've answered the first one, I've answered the second one, I've answered the third one and then he turns around and says, oh, Worldwide Webber.

15:42So I got the nickname Worldwide Webber off the back of Abraham Grant's trivia questions when he first joined the club. Worldwide Webber. It's Abraham Grant, that's what I'm trying to think, is Abraham Grant that sharp to think of that on the spot? Because if you can't work out how to win a trophy at Chelsea, can you think of that in the moment? That's a very good question, probably not. You had Drogba, Lampard, Terry, Czech, Ashley Cole. You lost to Tottenham in the cup final. And everyone barely spoke English, didn't you? His English wasn't great. I think he spoke English. His English wasn't great.

16:15Worldwide. Yeah, but that's someone that would say worldwide web, innit? If, like, you don't speak English that great, you're more likely to say worldwide web. No, no, you're not. WWW. Exactly. You still say that, innit? When you say website, you still say WWW.innit. That's it. You don't even know how to do that for a while. Firstly, mind your business. Secondly, what's wrong with saying www dot? Because you don't need it anymore. I do that all the time. www dot bbc.co.uk. No. No? It's just bbc.co.uk. To the older generation, you no longer need to use www dot. Are you calling me the older generation?

16:49You're acting like it. Wow, Corral. When's the last time you saw www dot written? Yesterday when I typed in www dot bbc.co.uk. HTTP forward slash forward slash www dot you was running the dial up era innit you know how to type everything listen I typed everything when I was growing up but yeah like I think yeah a man of his age Avram Grant would come up with that nickname but whether he came up with it on the spot like that I feel like it's kind of one of those where he would say it or like he would say it like three days later okay think about I've been thinking think about Avram Grant as a person I don't know him as a person.

17:28Hey, in one of the episodes, you knew Alex Ferguson as a person. So now you know Aaron Grant as a person, okay? Think of him as a person. Does he sound like or look like somebody that will make that kind of joke? Yes. Because I think he would spend more time making jokes than taking training sessions. Play the third clip. Play the third clip. Listen, I'm telling you, I think this guy came back a few days later and says, you know what? I've been thinking. But he said on the spot. You're a smart guy. No, that's what I'm saying. I think that's one of the differences. I think he's come back a few weeks later.

17:59He's like, you know what? I've been thinking. You're a smart guy. World Wide Webber. Play the third clip, Corral, please. Let's not waste. Let's not waste our listeners' time. Just remember, you don't need to use www. Okay, let's roll the tapes on Danny Webber's third story. Hopefully this one gives me more of a feeling that this is true. Because the first two have lost me. Okay, let's do it. So it was about 23. playing at Watford and before the game against Preston at home, all the Preston lads got off the bus and one or two that I knew were saying, Webbs, are you going to Sheffield United? Knew nothing about it, got on with the game.

18:39At the end of the game, Ray Lewington, who was the manager at the time, while I was in the shower, he said, oh, Webbs, can you see me in the office? So I went to his office and he said, look, Sheffield United want to sign you. I don't want to lose you, but the situation is kind of what it is. so I then kept getting this number call me and I knew it was Neil Warnock and at the time I didn't know Neil and I didn't want to play under Neil I played against his teams and I didn't think it was something that was going to suit me so two days went by I kept ignoring the phone call until he left a voicemail and it was basically the last voicemail was Webbs I'm not as bad as everybody thinks I am please pick up the phone son and I felt guilty at the time So I picked up the phone, went to Sheffield United the day later, sat with Neil in the dugout.

19:30And we had probably 45 minutes where we spoke about ambition and ended up signing. So that was one where you never judge a book by its cover. I actually enjoyed a lot of time playing under Neil and we gained promotion that season. What's funny about that story? Go on. Regardless of if he stayed at Watford or went to Sheffield United, he would have got promoted because they both got promoted. Thank you for the fun fact, Carell. Can we work on the case now? Yeah. Thank you. Jeez Louise! Can I not? I like to give you bits of information. I'm enjoying it. When you talk to your colleagues around the water cooler, if that's what you guys do down there.

20:13How old do you think I am? What do you guys do in the break room? I don't know. drink coffee. I know you're a coffee addict so probably that. Like you can be like, oh, did you know that and all the bits of information I give you, it helps. It helps. Your colleagues will actually like you after that. I don't need my colleagues to like me. Let's just solve this case, Corral. Okay, no more fun facts from me then. No worries. Let's get back to work for this episode. All right, cool, cool. I don't really get the story because if he was playing for Watford and then Sheffield United wanted him And then he said he went there the next day.

20:48Is this during the season? It can't be in the summer. Well, it says from 2006. Wait, where's it? Well, 2005, sorry. 2005? Yes. Yeah, but so Sheffield United got promoted in 2006. So the season he's talking about is his first full season at the club. It said he went on loan to Sheffield United. No, that makes a bit more sense. So he went halfway through the season? Halfway through the season from Watford and then signed permanently the season after. The season after. I think that might be the true one, you know. And Warnock said, I'm not that bad. I think that you would have to convince people of that because like, if you've ever seen clips of Neil Warnock, Oh, I've seen the clips.

21:24Especially like, there's a clip of, I think Danny Webber was even at the club at the time, but like they play against Millwall and like, he's giving it to the linesman. He's giving it to the players. He's giving it to Kevin Muscat. And then I think they get a last minute equaliser or a winner. And he's like, he's going down, like walking around to the Millwall players going, that's for Muscat. That's for Kevin Muscat. Oh my gosh. So like, he is that type of character do I even want to be in the changing room with him we know do you not remember the famous meme of after I can't remember what match it was well he came after the match he just came to the camera yeah it was against Chelsea it was against Chelsea it was wasn't it two offside goals mate that was quality was that no no that wasn't after the game that was I think that was that was before the game and then after the game that's when he goes up to the referees and he just he's a nutter he's a nutter he's a character and I believe I think that's why I believe it because I think there's nothing in there that says like he didn't say anything outlandish yeah it's more so do you know what all of these stories are pretty safe aren't they safe aren't they they're very safe you've had a long career as well Danny like I don't know like he's got to have crazier things but I know I like it he's a good lad good teammate he's protecting the people around him yeah less of that less of that oh you want the spice I want the spice yeah same do you think we need do you think we need a fingerprint reader some eye scanners to access the real stories.

22:47Maybe it's behind a firewall on here. Maybe. If I can guess the password, there might be three more stories that actually get our juices flowing a little bit. You can barely type in a password on this computer, mate. Just forget about it. We're not accessing those stories. We are not. I mean, so we got to choose between security camera, World Wide Web, or Warnock, sign me. Well, World Wide Web is a lie. I think, right, the best way to look at it is say, let's say all three are true in some capacity yes which one do you have which one do you think would have any detail changed to make it untrue just to make it slightly less true if that makes sense okay so World Wide Webber I'm not having that it never happened I think I think if he did get it it wasn't from Avram Grant it wasn't yeah word it was probably like I don't know Saul Campbell do you know what it is I can be in the same primary school as him and call him World Wide Webber should we get into the reveal because I think that's a good place yeah let's go straight into the wait but we haven't decided which one we think oh I thought with the third one What, the third one?

23:44Yeah, so we had the script camera. Go on. We had World Wide Web. Yes. And we had Neil Warnock sign me after I ignored it. So, Neil Warnock is the truth? Yeah. Okay. We'll go with that. I'm happy to lock that in. All right, let's get into Danny's reveal. So, the story about Sheffield United in the members' room was all the truth apart from the last bit. I didn't buy CCTV cameras and I didn't buy fingerprint entry. I don't think there was fingerprint entry back then. But I did buy a doorbell. So that one was a lie. The story about Avram Grant coming and calling me World Wide Webber was also a lie.

24:21And the story about Neil Warnock and the voicemail was the truth. You know what, though? World Wide Webber. I rate buying a doorbell, though. Why do you rate buying a doorbell? Because it's like, imagine you're inside enjoying yourself. I feel like a doorbell is more polite than knocking. Like, if you show up to someone's door, are you going to press the doorbell or knock? I knock at your door every single day, Corral. The way you knock is quite rude, actually. I knock quite gently. It's a little... Nah, you knock... You know? You knock like... Well, we have pressing things to deal with, don't we?

24:54Yeah, but to be fair, it works. I think, yeah, I think I like the... Remember what I said? I said about... I know there's truth in at least the first one. What would you have changed? And I figured... What was that? The camera was... Yeah, yeah, yeah. The camera's a bit mad. But I did tell you, fingerprints, I don't think they were out back then. I told you. He's not actually World Wide Webber, so he doesn't know if they were there or not. I'm telling you, I saw it in Mission Impossible and that came out in like 2000. Mission Impossible and Real Life are two different things. Let me find out when it actually came in.

25:27We shouldn't leave on a cliffhanger like that. Whenever it came in, regardless, we would not have had access to it at the same time as Mission Impossible did. Fingerprint scanner. That's what I'm typing for those listening. We can hear the keyboard. Yeah. Fingerprint scanners were first made available to the public in the early 2000s. And when was, what era was he talking about? 2005. Fair enough. Yeah, I told you, he's not Worldwide Weber, he's just Weber. Fair enough. But yeah, no, I like that. Doorbell, Avram Grant. As someone who saw him up close, like... We just know. He's not that type of guy.

25:59But you thought that he'd think about it and then come back and then say Worldwide Weber. I said potentially. He's not sharp like that. I told you, a man that can't win a trophy at Chelsea in the mid-2000s cannot come up with that on the spot. because that team just won trophies and he got West Ham relegated oh sorry Hammers if you're listening in fact PTSD for you yeah London football and Avram Grant they just don't go together don't go together they just don't don't go together but yeah Neil Warnock trying to sign him I get that get it yeah voicemails being persistent I get it and he had great times with him exactly so he was right good life choice good life decision cheers Webb that is what I like to call an open and shut case really yeah because Nice and simple.

26:40It wasn't too much. Yeah. It wasn't too strenuous. Yeah. You can have an early finish. Oh, fantastic. Brilliant. Well, that's case closed for me. Case closed. But thank you for your help. You're welcome. Every time. Come on. Every time. Such an easy day's work. Thank you to Danny Webber for his stories. I appreciate that contribution. And thank you to all of you that are listening and watching from wherever you're watching and listening. If you do feel like there's anyone that slipped the net, anyone whose stories need analysing, anyone we need to bring to the stage, bring to the table, bring to the computer that I clearly cannot use properly, feel free to email us.

27:14I might not be able to click on it. Feel free to hit us on social media. I can do that because I use my phone. And feel free to send mail. By owl. Owls are an effective method of communication. They were outdated by the technological age. However, nothing can stop flight, but we can stop connection. So send the owls. I like that.

27:42so much sport today and all the goals as they go in up and down the league this is five live It's all eyes and the lights and foot to the floor. To bowl him! It's not his stopper. Everyone standing around the 18th three. Overhead kick! That is sensational! He shows to the centre! And they're going to do it! Oh, the right hand and former champion is down! It's extraordinary stuff! They've done a show for us tonight. He gets on his knees and kisses the turf. Five Live Sports. The home of the world's greatest sporting events. This is the full time with them. Listen on BBC Sounds.