Karel Prince: Lie Detector - Fenners

0:00This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. Pop quiz. What's in your kid's lunchbox? At Whole Foods Market, they've already done the studying. Over 300 food ingredients are banned from their shelves. No hydronated fats in the peanut butter and no high fructose corn syrup in the cookies. And for sandwiches, there are no synthetic nitrates or nitrites in any of their deli meat. So you can pack lunchboxes with peace of mind. Get back to school ready at Whole Foods Market. Formula One is all about precision, tiny margins, massive ambition, flat-out performance. And that's exactly why it's exciting to see Cadillac entering Formula One, bringing an American luxury brand with performance pedigree onto the biggest stage in motorsport.

0:47But this isn't just about the grid. That same racing mindset, the obsession with engineering, the pursuit of perfection, lives in the Cadillac V-Series lineup, giving you the chance to experience the precision and performance of the grid on the open road. Cadillac V-Series, distinctive luxury performance, engineered to thrill. Discover the V-Series lineup at cadillac.com. Yes, people, I'm Carell Prince, full-time auditor of Football Tales, timeline inspector, and now the BBC's resident football fact-checker. This is my new podcast, Carell Prince, Lie Detector. Before the football season returns and while your usual Football Daily presenters take a well-earned break after the World Cup, myself and Anita Abayami will be putting football entails to the test to see if we can spot the truth from the lies.

1:36To never miss an episode, make sure you're subscribed to Football Daily, listen on BBC Sounds and watch on YouTube.

1:48Yes people, it's Carell Prince here. And Anita Abayami. And we are your new resident fact-checkers here at the BBC. Every week we're going to bring you stories from ex-professional footballers Three to be exact Two will be lies, one will be truth And we have to use our analytical and detective skills To weed out that truth from the lie Join us on this journey, see where we end up Let's get into it Let's get into it, Karel, who've we got? JF JF, JF, JF Should we do guesses? After you've opened it yeah let's get alright cool JF is it Joao Fernandez Joao Fernandez I don't think we have a Joao Fernandez you don't know Joao Fernandez no no I don't think Joao Fernandez sounds like a liar James Fox James Fox Jamie Fox Jamie Fox is there a Jamie Fox that has played professional football no but there's Hollywood we might have gone Hollywood you don't know that do you know what you never met See, you've got a little faith in us.

2:53You've got a little faith. JF, I don't know who it is, but I'm happy to have a look and see who it is. John Felix, maybe? Oh, my God. Yeah, John Felix. I mean, he's lied to a lot of teams about how much he should cost them, but that's neither here nor there. John Fenley. John Fenley? You mean Fenners? Like, I didn't even know his name was John Fenley. Do you know much about him at all? Not really. I don't even know why he's in the case files. He's not a footballer, is he? But he's basically a fabric of like UK football Because Soccer M Which is probably one of the most iconic shows That's ever come out of this country He used to produce it And then towards the end of its run He was a co-host So like nowadays From the end of that run till now He's done a lot of stuff with Jimmy Bullard Who of course has been in On I'm a Celeb and all that stuff So No He's right up there with the ex-pros Might be even more famous than some of them Hmm An old school influencer before Instagram before Instagram we do have some images of him him on set with one of these what do they call them cagooles cagooles you know what a cagool is I have no idea what a cagool is so it's the jacket that the Oasis wears you know the long kind of like trench coat trench coat it's got a hood and stuff you're looking at one right now that's what it is I don't know why you why are you so like Oasis do you know what today it's gonna be no no no I know Oasis I love Oasis I've never heard of a cagool Cagoo It's called a Cagoo I found out Through watching Fenners On the show Like he's really into these jackets Okay It's got a technical term Sure Got Wembley This is Wembley Stadium Interesting Got Fenners and Jimmy Bullard Why is his hair so blonde?

4:37I think it's grey Is it grey? Yeah It's giving Blonde grey With a bit of pink at the top It's definitely It's definitely grey It's getting on a bit Oh Oh, Barcelona. Oh. Oh, we on the wrong... Oh, sorry. We're out of sync. We need to be in sync if we're going to get this right. You put these files together. So what do you mean? Like, if you put them in the wrong order, then blame yourself. When it landed on your table, it was in order. Oh, so I should reshuffle them to know what your order is. Would you like me to reshuffle them for you? No, it's fine. It's fine. I've got Barcelona. I've got Barcelona.

5:09Okay. These two spend a lot of time together, by the way. Clearly. This image is Fenners and Jimmy Bullard once again at what looks like the Barcelona training ground. I believe this is around, I want to say like 2017, 2018 times, if I remember the kit correctly. And that is blonde, Corral. That is grey. It's blonde. The printer's got no toner. Again, I told you to replace it. And then something that, you know, always warms my heart when I see this man is the goat. Lionel Messi. Okay, right answer. The only answer, actually. True, the only answer. And he is playing FIFA 13, of which he was the cover star of.

5:52I remember playing this game fondly. Put a lot of hours into this game. A lot of time into Ultimate Team on this one. But yeah, it's the goal. I wonder what the context is of all of them. We've got Wembley Stadium, we've got Barcelona, we've got Messi playing FIFA. We've got a wild variety here. Yeah, but, you know, Fennes was kind enough to add context to these stories. he sent us some videos. I'm guessing to explain these stories, three of them to be exact. And I think we should get into the first one and hear what he's got to say. What do you think? Let's do it. Hiya. Over the years, I've been very fortunate to interview some of the greatest players who've ever played football.

6:33Pelé, Zidane, Dean Windas. And I was once asked if I'd like to go to Barcelona's training ground to interview Lionel Messi. It was a promotional visit to promote FIFA, the football game by EA Sports. It's in the game. Part of the deal was that I would play Lionel at FIFA ahead of the interview. However, I was on fire. I played so well during the game that Lionel Messi rage quit, as the kids say, threw his controller down and stormed out of the premises, not to be seen again that day. no interview that has to be a lie yeah yeah right that has to be a lie there's there's just I mean well we can never be 100 % certain but that just doesn't it doesn't make any sense I mean we've got Lionel Messi here in one of the pictures playing FIFA 13 right but I don't I don't see this guy it could have been before we met him though exactly but I don't see him anywhere in the pictures though.

7:44Why will that be added to the evidence? Well, I'm guessing they played it behind the scenes or something. But even so, Messi's a consummate professional. He looks like the type of man that wouldn't really care if he lost the game of FIFA. Do you think Lionel Messi cares when he loses the game of football in general? Yes. Of course he cares. He would care about losing to FIFA. To the point where you still might... Rage quitting is beyond me. He's a professional. No, if he's winning 5-6-0, I'll quit. But I wouldn't storm out because at the end of the day, with these sort of things, it's usually a media day, right?

8:22So you've got to do different interviews with different people. It might be different publications. It might be YouTubers, whatever it may be. We've seen a lot of these junkets and press runs. For him to storm out and say no one else saw him for the rest of the day, I don't know if I'm having that because essentially at the end of the day, what you're saying is he's quit on the whole media day for a game that he's the cover star of, which is probably under contract by EA to do certain media obligations. And he's doing that because Fenners beat him at FIFA. It makes no sense. I don't know. But then again, please, we need to make sure we listen to every single story before we make a conclusion.

9:06It's true. But like, I will give the credit to say, I believe Fenners interviewed Messi I just don't believe that he stormed out not to interview because defenders in this world of like interviews and and content and in that space big deal like I've watched these like other series that he does he's had some big big names on there so it's it's very believable so don't don't take don't look at the Messi part and say that it's not true but have we seen an interview with Fenners and Messi before because he said that interview didn't happen didn't he No, but I'm saying I'm not saying that He did interview him I'm saying he could have been in the same room as him Or he could have even played him at FIFA But I don't believe That Messi stormed out At Exit That's where I'm at on that one But for now I think we just put small pin in that one Because we do have another We do have another tape Yeah, roll that one We're going to roll that tape The second one Because if we put all our eggs in one basket we can be left with egg on our faces.

10:16As for the second clip, I'm going to play that now. You ready? I've got my ears on. Don't just use your listening ears, use the analytical ears as well. Okay, sorry. The wording matters. Devil's in the details. Just before the new Wembley opened, you'll have to check the date because I'm not good with dates. I can't really remember when it was, but it was a big event. And there was a game there, a proper game, a proper official game that took place. Again, I'm not sure what that game was. However, what I can tell you was prior to that game, there was what we call a ramp event, which is a smaller scale game and set up for the day, whereby the stadium works through how a game day would work.

11:09I played in the first ever one of those games and I scored the first ever goal in that game at the new Wembley. They all sound like lies. They all sound like lies. I'm so confused. Like, so what? Before Wembley opened, they had people... The new Wembley. Yeah. Well, it's not new anymore. It's been like 20 years. Just Wembley now, innit? I believe it opened in 2007? No, 6th. Because Chelsea played the first FA Cup final there Wasn't that 2007? Yeah Yeah Drogba scored against Man United John Terry scored the first England goal there Okay I'm trying to think Would they have had people play Like Because you remember This is a national stadium That's opening up Right Would they want The first people to ever play on that pitch To be Fenners Not Fenners specifically Just non-professionals But it's like Do you know what I mean?

12:07It just doesn't make any sense to me this isn't a Sidemen charity match what's he doing playing in Wembley before any professional was playing in Wembley it doesn't make sense why would he be one of the first people to play at a new Wembley stadium that's where it's losing me again there is no way I think if I'm the FA and I open the state bear in mind that Wembley as a stadium like the old one had been closed since 2000 so 7 years since anyone's played England were playing at Old Trafford where Beckham scored against Greece. The cup finals were at the Millennium Stadium. Gerrard against West Ham.

12:46Owens double against Arsenal. Like, that was all away from Wembley. So to finally bring back the home of football, you're going to let Fenners and friends play there before the FA Cup final. And allow him to have the first goal. Come on, the first goal at Wembley. But would it be the first goal anyway? Because I feel like if I worked on the construction of that stadium, I'm kicking the ball in the goal. I ain't gonna lie I would have scored a hat trick At least At least Like The construction team They're living aside Slotty bottom corner Knee slide I'm the first first You know what I mean So Again I'm not This is like a weird one Where it's like 0 for 2 Where I don't believe either I don't believe either But I need to hear the third one To feel like Okay These two are definitely Way off Yeah And this one is somewhat close to the truth.

13:39Yeah, Carell, play the third one before we make any rash decisions, but so far, 0-2, man. Yeah, I'm at a loss, man. Fenners, you are masking the truth very well if you've told it so far. Maybe I'm just jealous that you got to play with Messi and play at Wembley. He didn't play at Messi and he didn't play at Wembley. You're saying this, but we haven't heard the third one. OK, OK, play the third one. I'm going to roll the tape on this one as well. You Know the Drill was a feature on Soccer AM, whereby Jimmy Bullard would travel to a football club and take on a player in a drill to find out who was the winner.

14:14Invariably, football was the winner. Sometimes Jimmy needed a buddy to partner up with. We get a call, would you like to do a drill with Deco and Rivaldo in Barcelona? Yeah, yeah we do. So, over, myself and Jimmy go. So we get there nice and early in the day and we meet Deco and Rivaldo very very briefly. We get sorted and the cameras are just about to roll. I'm there, Jimmy's there, Deco's there. Where's Rivaldo? Anyone seen Rivaldo? Can't see him, I haven't seen him. Where is he? We look round to our right. Rivaldo is stood in public having a wee in a bush. You don't forget things like that I believe that one He looks scarred If you look at him Right He looks like he's relived a memory That he did not want to tell Genuinely Yeah but is that like It's not harrowing innit It's like Oh a Ballon d 'Or winner's having We in the bush Like You would remember that Exactly Do you randomly wee in the bush I'm not a Ballon d 'Or winner Only Ballon d 'Or winners can wee in the bush No but I'm saying like No one would remember but if I have a weed in the bush, what if I'm a Ballon d 'Or winner doing it?

15:35Like if you, obviously, if you walked down the street and you saw Rodri weaning in the bush, you would never forget that. I would call the police, actually. See? They'll call us. That's not our department. I don't deal with public urination, by the way. Public urination? That's not my... But like, where... Okay, so Rivaldo Deco. You know the drill. Did you ever watch it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so I know that exists. That existed. And I think that's where the picture of those two in the Barcelona shirt is leading me to. But I feel like I remember watching a Barcelona edition of it, but I'm not 100 % sure it was Rivaldo and Deco that was in the video.

16:32They've already done the studying. Over 300 food ingredients are banned from their shelves. No hydronated fats in the peanut butter and no high fructose corn syrup in the cookies. And for sandwiches, there are no synthetic nitrates or nitrites in any of their deli meat. So you can pack lunch boxes with peace of mind. Get back to school ready at Whole Foods Market. From taco night in Tulum to sushi in Tokyo, make every bite rewarding with gold from Amex. Wherever you dine, four times the membership rewards points at restaurants worldwide are piling up. Learn more at americanexpress.com slash explore-gold.

17:07Terms and points cap apply. Five life sports. So here's the first ball of this series. All the cricket you laugh. Check for LBW. Ouch. Lives on BBC Sounds. Smash straight back down the ground, this girl. Their ball-by-ball coverage of the biggest competitions on the domestic and international circuits. It's a ball cricket and it's the huge one.

17:42Let's just look at the facts that we have, right? The first two videos that we've watched and listened to, they make absolutely no sense. This is the only one that does. I'm ready to make a conclusion. Is it making sense because you're putting the pieces together? Because remember, we know the details is what matters. You know, like, he could be saying Rivaldo was wean in the bush, but the whole time he pooed in the bush and now we're wrong. You know what I mean? If Rivaldo pooped in a bush... I don't say he would. Sorry, Rivaldo, if you're watching this, yeah. But here's the saying. If he did, we would be wrong.

18:20If he did, we'd probably know about it by now. Nah, they could keep it under wraps. No, no, no, we would have known about it. That's a Ballon d 'Or winner. a Barcelona legend you can't if he doesn't want that information out he's not getting out are you going to allow this Ballon d 'Or winner to cloud your judgement don't say Ballon d 'Or winner because listen the Ballon d 'Or is the most prestigious award it is but if he's weaning the bush how prestigious can it really be a Ballon d 'Or winner a Ballon d 'Or winner is peeing in the bush you're talking about prestigious we're using he's in the wrong context he's in the wrong context he's in everyone I don't pee in the bush a lot of guys pee in the bush sorry to generalise but But my point is...

18:57Why are you guys peeing? What is going on here? Because we... Sometimes nature calls. So you peed in a bush. You know how big that training ground is? What if you couldn't make it back to the dressing room? So the training ground where most of my legends have grown up, people just peeing in a bush. Eto 'o, he peed in a bush too. Possibly. Oh, my God. That is... Look, look, look. Do you know what? We're going so off-key. Oh, my God. Eto 'o's on the board as well. I'm telling you. Whatever Eto 'o says, I think the opposite is true. Look, let's look at the files that we have. Okay. Well, let's go to the one where he's in a Barcelona shirt.

19:30Yeah. Oh, I see the bushes. I'll be honest with you. All I can see is Jimmy Bullard, Fenners and two ears. That ear is totally giving Rivaldo, man. On the right? Yeah, man. That's a Rivaldo ear. It does look like a Rivaldo ear. That is a Rivaldo ear. And then I'm imagining Deco's quite short He is It could be Rivaldo I'm telling you It's in the details, Coral It's in the details And I can see like From what they're wearing It looks like they were on like A promotional like media day or something Exactly It's possible, it's possible But did they film you know the drill This is where it's throwing me off Because it could be there for whatever reason They could have an unpitched day Yeah And not necessarily film Like anything with them Wait, what year was this Barcelona shirt from again I want to say I want to say 2018 or 2017 2017 17-18 season and how long was you know the draw on for?

20:34I know in that era it was on I know in that era it was definitely on are you 100 % sure? yeah yeah yeah it's nothing to do with then what are we doing wasting time here? Lionel Messi I need to get this he said Lionel Messi stormed out of a FIFA game because he was losing yeah our goat yeah as we've agreed of course Okay Yeah Do you think that's believable? No Okay No I don't What was the second one? That he scored the first goal at Wembley Is that believable? No Rivaldo peeing in the bush But you keep saying this man You keep saying this like I'm with you I'm with you I'm with you I feel like sometimes you look too deep into things That's what I do And I know this is your job I know it is But you've got to go with me on this one Am I trusting you?

21:19You have to trust me Until you get this right There might be a promotion on the cards Right I might even let you sit on this side of the desk at some point. Okay. If I get this right, next episode, I'm on that side. Next season? No, next episode. We'll see. The chair's custom. It's made for my lumbar support. It's the right eye length. You mess up those dynamics too soon, I'll be in long-term trouble. Just don't pee on the chair, man. I'm not a rival, though. So we've gone through everything. I think we've picked these apart as much as we could. We've looked at Wembley when it opened. We've looked at the era of Barcelona, if it would have worked.

22:03We've looked closely at it. We've analysed our GOAT's character. And I think ultimately we've come to the conclusion that we don't believe Messi stormed out of a FIFA game. We don't. We don't believe that Fener's scored the first ever goal at Wembley. However we do believe That Rivaldo Peeed in the bush In front of Fenners and Jimmy Bullard Whilst they're about to film You know the drill I'm happy to lock it in Let's lock it in So Fenners has dropped us A fourth file And it's titled The Reveal Very conveniently timed For us to Find out if we're right or wrong let's roll the tape and find out so did Lionel Messi rage quit against me whilst playing FIFA, did Rivaldo wee in the bushes or did I score the first ever goal at the new Wembley, I can reveal the answer is Rivaldo urinated in the bushes ahead I told you, you had to trust me, wonderful footballer very questionable toilet habits you had to trust me on that one I know you had to listen well done thank you well done that's why you hired me mate honestly this was like I didn't hire you once again I don't know why you keep saying this you were bestowed upon me but clearly the powers that be they knew what they were doing they chose correctly because I don't know how you knew it was him just from an ear obviously you're such a Rivaldo ear as if by magic we have now been given it has dropped in our inbox the full image look my sources came through once again Might have been last minute But they came through Yeah It is Bullard Fenners in the middle Deco to the left Rivaldo to the right Ballon d 'Or Winner peeing in the bush though Hey listen Is that what you Is that Is that what you get away with When you If I won a Ballon d 'Or I'd pee anywhere mate I agree Deco won the Champions League as well He doesn't get to pee anywhere He won two Champions Leagues He doesn't get to pee anywhere He should use the toilet He won a league and cup double For Chelsea He should use the toilet Do you think you would have told the story If Deco peed in the bush And it wasn't Rivaldo That is a very good question I think you would have told the story either way Nah I'm telling you If a Ballon d 'Or winner Pees in the bush You don't forget it Exactly He's probably been on so many shoots Where players have peed in bushes But Rivaldo's the one that sticks in mind Yes Yes Don't look at me like that That is disgusting That is disgusting I'm just saying But I'm saying When a Ballon d 'Or winner does it You will tell that story in the pub for life.

24:46Listen, if I saw Messi, Ronaldo, R9, George Bayer, if I saw them peeing in the bush, I would remember it. You're right. I remember it. You're right. Thank you for trusting me, Corral. I do. You don't get to sit here, though. I lied. Anyway, figure out that lie in that story. You're not sitting here. The lie detector is a real liar. No, but we cracked the case. We got it right. We made it happen. And for that, I'd like to thank you. You're welcome. I'd also like to thank Fenners for his stories that honestly genuinely really entertaining had me thinking had my cogs turning had me overthinking which is why I have to thank you Anita and also we've got to thank the viewers and the listeners for tuning in and let us know be honest in the comments did you get it right did you suss it out did you not were you like me were you overthinking it's okay if you were but we got it right and you need to own up if you got it wrong if you have any suggestions or any stories that you think have escaped us and need to be reeled in and scrutinised and, you know, brought to the stage, as they would say, feel free to get in touch through the socials.

25:54And if you want to send an owl, Hedwig, send it on through. We've got a window. We'll get in touch. Thanks for watching. That owl gimmick needs to stop. I said Hedwig. Carell Prince Lie Detector is a Sports Social Studios production for BBC Sounds and Radio 5 Live.

26:42He goes on his knees and kisses the turf. Five Live Sports. The home of the world's greatest sporting events. This is the full-time wisdom. Listen on BBC Sounds.

27:02Hello, Greg Jenner here. I'm the host of You're Dead to Me, the BBC comedy show that takes history seriously. Every episode, I pair up a top historian with a fantastic comedian, and we have a lovely, funny, fascinating chat about a different subject from world history. And in this new series, we're beginning with an epic voyage through the story of Homer, the Iliad and the Odyssey. And that's with Kyle Smith-Bino joining us. And then we'll be learning about Francis Galton and the racist, discredited pseudoscience of eugenics with Desiree Birch. We'll meet many medieval saints in their bone boxes with Rachel Parris.

27:35So if that sounds like your sort of thing, listen to You're Dead to Me wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you, bye!