Karel Prince: Lie Detector - Nedum Onuoha

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1:15Yes, people, it's me, Karel Prince. And it's me, Ania Rabaymi. We are your resident fact-checkers here at the BBC. Every week, we will bring three stories from the wonderful world of football from an ex-professional footballer. Two will be lies. One will be the truth. and using our analytical skills, my immense detective skills, we will weed out the truth from the lies. So Anita, you've been assigned as my assistant. And I just want to know what your credentials are. Like, when's the first time you caught someone in a lie? Well, I'm not going to lie to you, mate. I've caught several people in a lie, but my best detective work has been with my exes.

1:50Okay? Every single one of my exes have been caught in a lie with me. So trust me, I've got the right girl for the job. Promise you. You know what they say. Men lie, women lie, numbers don't. so men lie numbers don't lie yep it is okay is that what we're doing yes well if you believe men lie perfect job for you because we do have an ex-professional male footballer could you hang on over the case file please I've got them for you Karel thank you very much let's get straight into this one oh oh Nader Manua do you know much about Nader Manua do you know what low-key I don't I just know he's Nigerian because you know I'm Nigerian that's all I know you know yeah Came through our city, played for QPR in that crazy time as well.

2:33And, you know, he's a great analyst, pundit these days, you know, one of the great respecting minds of football. Yeah, I think this one, this one might be tough, you know, because I feel like he's got the memory of an elephant. So I won't be able to detect, or at least straight away detect what the lie is. Have you met him before? Yeah, funny story. Back in one of my old jobs before I was employed in this place. Back in my day. Back in my day He used to come in To my place of work a lot But I never spoke to him But I used to see him come in So I worked in a phone shop Okay But the phone shop was within Like a supermarket Yeah So he would come into the supermarket Like fairly regularly And yeah I'd see him like Did you say hi?

3:17No I was too shy Okay Before I had the credentials I have now Exactly now you're about to catch him in LA Crazy That means I've been watching him for years you know even behind the scenes so can he get away from me we'll see right we've got his career history and as mentioned before came for a city made his debut in 2004 was a mainstay for eight years also played for Sunderland right so Ania you're a Chelsea fan right yeah do you remember that game Asamoah Jan which one at the bridge which one with Danny Welbeck 3-1 3-1 when he was dancing and Zenden was dancing yeah I don't remember lost his name not properly see this is what I'm saying you need the memory to do this job like if you can't remember those things How are you going to help me?

3:55You were a Man United fan Just the other day Let's relax here, okay? That's neither here nor there It's always here And it's always there Sorry for enjoying my life Anyway He went to He went to QPR For six years 2012 to 2018 And then finished his career At Real Salt Lake So a well-travelled man Do you know where Real Salt Lake is In America? In Salt Lake City Maybe In which state? Cut the cameras, man Cut the cameras This isn't a This isn't a geography session I'll give you I'll give you I'll give you a clue Go on Right, NBA Jazz. So, it looks like we have a picture of a formation here in his hand.

4:33Free, free, free. How many plays is that? One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten. Ten players. I'm sorry. Okay, I don't know what that would mean. And then there's also... Is that James? Yeah, David James. Do you know who that is to his right? That's Giovanni Reina's dad. Oh, really? Yes, Claudio Reina. Okay, another one of David James. Why is David James so prominent in this guy's case files? We're keeping an eye on the kit though. The kit's interesting. Then we've got Coronation Street to end it off. Hmm. Okay, that's a little bit odd. Yeah, right. Listen, I've got nothing to go off from these files, right?

5:07But luckily enough, we have a few videos from Nadim explaining, maybe adding a bit more context to what we've just seen in this file. And I'm going to play the first of these videos right now. All right, let's go. Right, hello, my friend. Story time. and the first one is from the very first year of my career, the 0-4, 0-5 season. And I was at City and we'd gone unbeaten in the last nine games of the season and we were now facing Borough at home. And if we won, we would have made it into the UEFA Cup because we finished the season so well. But Borough were also trying to get into the UEFA Cup and if they didn't lose, they would get into the UEFA Cup.

5:47So it's a tense game, big game. I'm playing this game, like, what way to finish your first season? So Jimmy Ford has a bank scores a free kick from 30 yards out, absolute rocket, as he does. We're 1-0 down, but then second half we score to make it 1-1. And we're pushing, pushing, pushing. They've been time wasting and stuff like this, and understandable, you know, because it's such a big game. And then, towards the end of the game, our US international Claudio Reyna comes off. And as he's coming off, on comes our goalkeeper, Nicky Weaver. So at this point, we've got Nicky Weaver in there, but all of a sudden David James has got an outfield shirt on, and he's playing upfield as we're pushing for this goal.

6:23And it's one of the weirdest decisions that's ever been done by any coach anywhere, which nobody knew was going to happen apart from the manager, David James, and the kid man. But what made it madder was the fact that David James won a penalty and Robbie Fowler had the chance at the end of the game to score this penalty to take us into Europe, and he missed. So what was one of the worst tactical decisions you could ever imagine almost turned out to be one of the best ones you've ever seen? You see this brings me back to the James picture He's wearing an outfield shirt So it kind of adds up I was Yeah I was thinking Why am I seeing a goalkeeper In an outfield shirt Obviously I'm happy this is the first story Because this is what This was playing on my mind a lot So it's kind of put at ease That there may be some context To these pictures Up front That's crazy What kind of goalkeeper Plays the striker They're called Stuart Pierce Cycle For a reason Do you know who he was?

7:19He was manager at the time. Nah, but Carell, imagine being a striker on the bench and then you're watching your goalkeeper take your spot. I've got a question to ask back to you. Go on. Crunch game of the season. Yeah. If you're a striker and you've only scored one goal up until that point that season, would you even be mad that the coach is trying something different? Because clearly bringing you on hasn't yielded the results that he's wanted. Right. Who was the striker? John Macken. And he actually scored just one goal that season. One goal that season. I mean, okay, look, regardless, right?

7:53If my job role is a striker and someone else's job role is a goalkeeper, please don't put the goalkeeper on instead of me. No, but I'm looking at it as like, I need a goal. Keepers are usually like six foot three, six foot four. You know how like, you've got the Dan Byrne option or the Harry Maguire option where it's like, the ball's going to go in the box. You need someone just to cause a bit of chaos. and we've seen situations like Alisson scored for Liverpool which was great he scored a winning goal and that helped them get top four that season what position was Alisson playing that game he was in goal there we go but he went up for one opportunity so you're telling me David James up there for 15, 20 minutes 10 minutes that's too long of a time when you have a striker sitting on the bench right there I don't think so I think if a striker scored one goal you can't what are you going to say Gaffer remember in October when I scored that goal let me Oh yeah, Watford Let me give you a situation Let me give you a situation It's your Sunday league Yeah Okay You're a striker I think it's a bad example already Because The amount of goalkeepers That play up top In Sunday league Right But you're a striker And you know your capabilities You know what you're capable of Yeah But the gaffer You've been trying to get on the pitch For time Yeah You're telling the gaffer Look I can get a goal I can get a goal But your gaffer now looks to your goalkeeper And says go up top Are you not going to be livid?

9:15Liv I'm not saying you can't be angry. I'm saying that... Do you know how much of a desperate situation the manager is now in that he's considered playing the goal? He's printed out an outfield shirt with number one on it. The only other man I know that's worn number one outfield was Edgar Davids at Barnet. But he was manager, captain and number one shirt. Look it up, it's true, I swear. That's the only man I've seen do that before. All this is telling me is that this was premeditated. It was. This was premeditated. Like they said, the only people that knew about it was the gaffer, the goalkeeper and the kit man who obviously had to print out the shirt.

9:54And I'm telling you, John Mackham, I feel for you because it's embarrassing. It happens. But when you only score one goal, I don't think you can have, you know, the biggest qualms. And I think the biggest issue as well is that it almost worked. But Robbie Fowler missed the penalty. Missed the pen. So, yeah, like I said, the whole strip here cycle for a reason and he exercised his right to be a psycho and it almost worked. Shout out John man because if that was me I would have walked out. It was the last day of the season he was probably walking out of the club anyway. But with that being said let's go into the second you know story from Nadim the second case file and see if we can get some more context for the other pictures in this file.

10:36So one thing for me about playing is even though you are a pro at some point you were once a fan and if you're watching games you see things that happen you wonder I wonder if that'll ever happen in my game. And as I got older, one thing that used to happen more is you see coaches giving out notes to players on the sideline. And as they do it, you know, it'd be formations, it'd be messages, it's that, you know, the T, like somebody come over, take it from the opposition and all this. And that only happened to me twice in my career. But the first time that happened, this would have been probably like 2016, 17, when I was at QPR.

11:07And I was captain at the time. So I got called off by the manager. I was given a note, and a note had a formation on it. And the formation only had 10 players on it. So I was jogging away and the game was about to restart and I was trying to figure out what you want us to do. But I was trying to figure out who's missing. So yeah, this moment I thought, oh, this would be quite fun. Ended up being one of the worst tactical interventions that I ever saw in my life. You see, this one's a little bit fishy for me, right? Hmm. Okay, now, I'm going to trust your instincts, but listen to mine, okay? There are 10 players on this picture Yeah Right There's a goalkeeper Three at the back Three in midfield Three up front I'm guessing Okay Yeah it looks that way But the dots It's a tiny note With tiny dots on them Yeah but you've seen it When they fold it up They've clearly been printed out No but like That might not be the original You think he's kept that Since 2016 Hey Listen I don't know I'm just saying How many papers have you got In your house From 2016 I've got quite a few I'm a hoarder So hey listen I'm just saying this could be a picture that has been AI generated I'm just saying because I cannot believe there would be 10 dots on a tiny note that he's taken onto a pitch I'll be honest no way I'll be honest you see in football there's a lot of there's a lot of gimmicks you know people start wearing their socks low everyone else wants to wear their socks low people cut out the back of their their boots other people start cutting out the back of their boots cutting holes in socks whatever it is people follow fashion and as long as what's this got to do with the dots?

12:42Let me land Let me land And as long as I've been watching football How many times do you see a manager Sit there on the side Scribbling something of a other Fold it up Maybe they wait for A break in play these days You don't even need that anymore Just hydration break will do it for you And then they go They hand it over to a player The player runs on the pitch He opens it up And then he throws it on the floor Yeah So if they've been doing that for that long and he made his debut in 2004, do you really believe that it took until 2016 for the first time, as he said, the first time he was ever handed a note from a manager?

13:22I believe that the devil's in the details and the detail to me is, I don't think it takes 12 years for you to receive your first note from a manager. I've only played flipping Sunday league and I've had notes from managers. Why are you having notes from managers in a Sunday league? It's not that deep. Because there's no crowd to mask what he wants to shout. So they'll write it down and give it to me. Come on, man. That's why we won the treble Do you know what We'll park that one Let's listen to the third one Okay Let's listen to the third one I'm telling you If the third one makes sense It's this one I promise you Are you sure I promise you You heard it here first If I go with you You hired me for a reason mate I didn't hire you You was bestowed upon me I just hope you're good at your job Do you know what Without me you'd be nothing I mean I could go get my own case files But that's neither here nor there You're worse

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14:49To get all the updates, listen and subscribe on BBC Sounds or wherever you get your podcasts so you never miss an episode. Alright, so we're going into the third and final story, the third and final case file. I feel like if we get this wrong, we've got egg on our face. Don't worry. Naden wins. Don't worry, we're fine, we're fine. One of my coaches when I was at QPR, it's a manager that coached in the Premier League and then was coaching in the Championship. He was different. He was very, very different to every other coach that I've had before. And he was different not just so in terms of, say, the training sessions or when he'd turn up later than most other coaches would, but the biggest one really was when he'd be travelling to a game on a bus, he'd always be watching his iPad, but not for tactical things.

15:29He'd be watching a TV series and he would go into the dressing room and continue to do the same thing as we're all getting ready. So as you can imagine, this is when I was at QPR, so we fight relegation in our first season in the Premier League. And before the game, up until an hour before we need to go out, he's just sitting in the corner, just watching Coronation Street on his iPad. And he's saying, no, this is different. Every week, Coronation Street, Coronation Street, Coronation Street, to the point where it's becoming quite ridiculous, but then it crosses over and becomes quite normal. So yeah, I had a manager who before every game, instead of like just sitting around and, you know, talking to his coaches and so on, his method of getting ready would be to watch Coronation Street on his iPad, both on the team bus and in the dressing room before he needs to say anything.

16:14Hmm. Come on now, let's... That's suspicious. You took the words out of my mouth. Is Coronation Street not midweek? It is midweek. So is he storing up his episodes until Saturday morning to watch it? But sometimes you wait to watch your favourite TV shows at the right time though. I'm trying to think who was manager at that point in time. Use your detective skills. You've got a computer. It's the 21st century. Use the computer. I wish I knew how to work it. I've been trying to use it for like 20 minutes. Is it an actual prop? No, it works, but I don't know where Safari is. Is this a normal computer?

16:56It's not a MacBook. You used a computer like a normal human being It's got the Apple thing on it These Gen Z's nowadays mate Oh we have liftoff Oh my god we've got the internet This is class So you're telling me a high level detective like you Didn't know how to use the computer Cut the cameras He was the manager So he said See this is why the case files are important My case files, mind you Yeah The case files that I If they're reliable, they're good So, I'd like to point you to His playing history Okay Okay He joined QPR in 2012 Okay So that gives us One key suspect So when he signed The manager who signed him Was Mark Hughes Okay Also known as Sparky He gives Coronation Street as well, you know Ha, but here's the issue though He left the job in November of 2012.

18:00And do you know who took over? Harry Redknapp. Mr. Redknapp, yeah. He also gives Coronation Street. That's why he's believable. And you know he's on the wall already. You know he's on the wall. And maybe Nadam knows that he's on the wall. So he's baited me in because he didn't say his name, but he's given me, oh, once you hear Harry Redknapp, he must be doing some some stuff like this my only question is he's trying to pull a fast one over us do you own an iPad? yes how long have you had an iPad for? I don't know Carole like 10 years? no because my question is if this is like 2012 and this is just me trying to like figure things out your juices are flowing they're really flowing come on when were you able to watch shows remotely like and download them on your iPad I don't think that was something that came in straight away I feel that's a later feature I think you could always watch stuff on on wifi but I don't think you were always able to download them actually that's actually that's actually a good point that's you know what I mean the devil's in the details oh I like that I like that I think as much as it is Harry Redknapp I don't see it I can guarantee he watches Coronation Street though he gives Coronation aura I don't know he does he does he does but I'm saying like would he do it on a Saturday like Saturday afternoon every Prep for a busy week with Whole Foods Market.

19:27Start your day with fully cooked breakfast sausages from Amy Lu, 365 brand frozen waffles with no bleached flours, and of course Whole Foods Market eggs, which are all cage-free or better. In the evening, bring home a build-your-own family meal that feeds four for just$35. Choose one entree and two sides. Shop smarter, not harder, at Whole Foods Market. Good afternoon. He does what he wants. I've heard stories about Harry Redknapp. Not one person's ever mentioned a thing about him watching Coronation Street or being obsessed with his iPad. I've never seen anything like it. Watching Coronation Street on an iPad in, what, 2012?

20:08Hmm? That doesn't sound right. That's too suspicious for me. It's weird. What are we saying? Are we calling it not on that one? No. I don't think... Yeah, I don't think the Harry Redknapp one's true. Purely because I don't think you could watch stuff offline at that point in time. I also don't think the tactic one is true. Because I don't think that 12 years into your career is the first time you'll ever hand a note from a manager. Like, that is something that happened all too regularly. Yeah, that's awfully suspicious as well. Awfully, awfully suspicious. And again, the dots. Okay. The dots. Yeah, but I still think it doesn't add up.

20:46Yeah, it doesn't add up. Yeah, it doesn't add up. The one that is true. And I know this. The David James one, innit? Because if you've watched Premier League years, it's an image you cannot shake from your head. The only thing I was worried about is if he's given me the right situation, but the wrong story. Because the pictures are there and they look real. I remember the game. So you remember David James getting a penalty? I remember David James playing up top with a number one shirt. And I remember Robbie Fowler missing a penalty in that game. Okay. Are we happy with our deliberation? We've got the David James story.

21:22We've got the tactics. And we've got the iPad. For me personally, I'm saying the true story is David James. Are you with me on this? No, I'm joking. Yeah, yeah, 100%. It's the only one that makes sense. And you said that you remember that match happening. You remember David James as an outfield player, which is bizarre to me, by the way. But it's David James, so it's kind of normal. What, bizarre situations? No, he's just an eccentric guy. I think he'd be right up for it. I think that when he got told the news that he was going up to him, in his head, he was like, I'm scoring a hat trick. He was gassed.

21:55He was excited. Yeah. Do you see the way he's putting that shirt on as well? He's gassed, man. I need to show you the highlights. You know, when this gets revealed as correct, because I believe, honestly, if I'm wrong, I will be floored. I'll retire. There was literally no way I was going to believe the formation thing. There was no way I was going to believe that the note being passed to him for the first time in how many years. No way I was going to believe that The last one, Coronation Street Even though Harry gives coronation That one doesn't sound feasible It's in the details Devil in the details We're going with David James as our one We do have one more video And the video is the truth being revealed By Nadim himself So moment of truth Let's get into it So I'll be interested to see which one you thought was right Which one you thought was wrong but I'm going to start in this order.

22:49The one with David James, former England international goalkeeper, playing up front, that is very, very, very close to being real. But he didn't win a penalty. I told you! I said it! He was actually the most chaotic individual that's ever been seen on a football pitch. So, yeah. Can we have a pause on the evidence, please? You said you remember that match! Yes! It's true. Like, he played up front. What am I working with here? Oh, sorry. He didn't win a penalty. Oh, great. Let's first find out what's real and what's not real. Because right now, I'm sick to my stomach. I can't eat. I can't sleep.

23:30You're blaming me for... I can't breathe. I want the BBC to cut my contract today. I don't want any parts of this. What's going on? What's happening? Do you know what we need to do? We need to look at your memories, OK? Because you're telling me that you saw all of this happen and now all of a sudden you're sick to your stomach. I said I didn't see him win a penalty But I do remember him Doing everything else Okay I can only go off of what I remember Devil's in the deep Let's find out what was true Because you said I don't believe the formation I don't believe that So go on We did have the penalty to win it all But David James had nothing to do with it So it still goes down in my mind It's the worst tactical decision That's ever, ever, ever Happened in the history Of not just the Premier League But in all of professional football The note thing was having 10 players, that was real And that was one of the most surreal moments I've ever had as a captain To try and figure out what exactly does the manager want from me When he can't think straight himself So he wants me to put the players into this position But somehow we're down to 10 players when we are actually 11 So yeah, that's the one that was real And then finally, the one about watching the iPad It's ridiculous, isn't it?

24:37Obviously that feels stupid, but it was almost real Because the coach wasn't watching Coronation Street he was actually watching EastEnders. Well done if you got it right. The silence is kind of deafening, boss. But you are the lead investigator, so it would be great if you could say some words. Look, the formation thing just didn't seem real. Come on. It didn't feel real. And you said it yourself, your first note after 12 years. Do you know what I mean? I feel like you're going to pack up these case files and throw it at me. So if you don't mind I'd rather just walk out of it Oh, you threw it in the bin Listen, listen All I've got to say is We got this wrong Okay Tough times never last Only tough people last Because I want everyone to know I feel sick I feel sick To be fair, we were so sure about that David James one We were so sure about it Look, our hearts, minds and analysis were in the right place.

25:45The result was wrong. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We are liable to get things wrong. I can't help but feel like I'm sick to my stomach. But with that being said, I'm still proud of the work that we've done as a collective. But not going to lie, Karol, these players, they're kind of, they're getting better at this. It's kind of looking like they're trying to catch you out. You're the lead detective. This is your thing. You know what I mean? This is your thing They seem to be catching you But maybe you need to brush up On your detective skills How about that? Okay So this is what we're doing They've got a head start They've seen what I can do They're now up in the levels Okay You've set the precedent A win's a win But that will be the last time That will be the last time You get through the taxman's net Because I'm here to collect everything You know Bigger office Bigger team bigger resources you think I can lose again it's not happening it's not happening but you know what fair is fair and I have to thank Nadim for his stories you know they were really interesting whether I got them right or wrong I want to thank you as well Anita because you are a great assistant and to be fair you did push me in the right direction even with my stubbornness I tried my best and also I want to thank everyone that's listening or watching and you know let me know if you got it right.

27:09Let me know if you smelt the fish amongst the fishes. What? I said what I said. If you do want to get in touch, if you do think there are some case studies, some case files, some stories that, you know, need scrutiny, that need our detective skills, our analysis, our ability to catch the rat amongst the turtles. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Just go with it. Go with it. These analogies are getting ridiculous, mate. No, because you know, you ever watch TV shows, right? No, I didn't watch TV shows. Yeah, but they always just say stuff that's meant to make sense that doesn't make sense. Like a cartoon network.

27:55Yeah, like what does the cat amongst the pigeons mean? Doesn't mean anything. Anyway, if you want to get in touch, maybe someone has slipped the net. Someone needs to get a taste of our analytical detective skills we need to catch the cat amongst the pigeon feel free to get in touch hit us up on the socials maybe even hit us on the email even send an owl we will receive it and we will investigate we'll see you on our next investigation

28:22this goes beyond what the KGB did back in the days conspiracy theories and the football world cup is there ever one without the other well I've been digging into one of the very best back in 1994. Guy from Iraq gets a red card for a, you know, a dubious tackle. I'm James Montague, and from BBC Five Live, this is Sports Strangers Crimes presents Shadows on the Pitch. Listen on BBC Sounds.