Man City’s new era and Arsenal’s next step

0:00This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. Pop quiz. What's in your kid's lunchbox? At Whole Foods Market, they've already done the studying. Over 300 food ingredients are banned from their shelves. No hydronated fats in the peanut butter and no high fructose corn syrup in the cookies. And for sandwiches, there are no synthetic nitrates or nitrites in any of their deli meat. So you can pack lunchboxes with peace of mind. Get back to school ready at Whole Foods Market. This is the Football Daily Podcast with Aaron Paul.

0:38Aaron Paul:For the first time in a decade, Manchester City begin the season with Pep Guardiola at the helm. We are going to begin by chatting about City in the company of our panel. Welcome, Dwight Gale from Crystal Palace and Newcastle United. Stryker, how are you, pal? I'm good, thank you. And yourself? Yeah, great, thanks. Good to have you with us this evening. Also alongside us, the former Hull City boss, Phil Brown. Good evening. How are you, Aaron? Yeah, well, mate. Good to see you, Brownie. And cousin Clinton. Clinton Morrison makes his return to Friday night. How are you, pal? Good summer? Yeah, very good summer.

1:13Yeah, you ready to go again?

1:16Aaron Paul:Strong opinions? Always strong opinions. You know me. I'll be like that. I'm always like that. I'll always be like that. Don't worry, anyway. We've got to enjoy it. I'm here with Brownie and Dwight, so it should be a good show. So I'm looking forward to it. It's not about me and you, mate. It's about everyone. Absolutely. It's a family affair, isn't it? Let's talk Manchester City. Pep Guardiola, of course, stepping down at the end of last season. Enzo Maresca, as expected, is the new man in the dugout. Put yourself in Enzo Maresca's shoes. How will he be feeling over the next week, Phil? Is it a monument to act he has to follow?

1:53I think it's enormous. It's absolutely enormous. The best part about Enzo is that he knows him very well. He knows Pep Guardiola. He worked with him. He knows his styles, etc. Does he start copying Pep Guardiola because of the success that he had at Man City? All of them things will be going through everybody's mind, but it's a real dilemma at the moment. How do you behave? How do you act? Because your arsenals of this world are now, by definition, having won the title, they are now stronger. they're spending more they've got more of a say-so in the transfer market and they look to me as a real powerhouse Arsenal at this moment in time without a ball being kicked.

2:32Will that be changed in a charity shield event? I don't think so. I think people's opinion of Manchester City is going to be really sceptical over the first sort of 10 12 games and who knows where it's going to go with Man City. I'm not sure certainly with a club that's just down the road, Manchester United, who look like they've got their act together. There's a lot of pressure on Manchester City, a lot of pressure on Maresco, and a lot of pressure just to win a few games to get the crowd on his side before he even gets talking about titles, etc, etc.

3:04Aaron Paul:Dwight, fundamentally though, he's been picked for a reason. It's going to be partly football style, but because they believe the City board, who are pretty shrewd when it comes down to it, that he is the best man to follow on from Pep Guardiola's era of success. Yeah, I think that would definitely have been in their decision. I think obviously him being there and being at the club and working under Pep before is going to be something that they wanted to bring into the dressing room. He obviously worked with some of the boys before but I think it's going to be a real big test to try and bring the big characters back in.

3:40They've obviously lost a few players, very important ones, obviously Stones, Rodri could go at the moment and I think they're really big characters in the dress room and I think that's going to be one of the big things that comes into the transfer window going forward so if he can bring some big characters into the into the dress room I think that will help them I also think that obviously the playing style is vital and I was just going to compare it to the Liverpool situation obviously when Klopp left and Slott came in he obviously continued for a year in a similar stance and they obviously who had success with it.

4:14And I think he'll look at that and try to do the same. Obviously, when he started to bring in some new characters and tried to change a bit in the dressing room and on the pitch and style of play, I think it started to change a little bit that they probably had a lot of beliefs and confidence in. So I think, first and foremost, with a similar style, I think that gives them the best opportunity.

4:32Aaron Paul:Phil, when he goes into that job, how much of a Brian Clough can he do? And when I say Brian Clough, just to put it into context, of course, Brian Clough going into Leeds United after Don Reavy lasting 44 days, wanting to banish the ghosts of Don Reavy. He's apparently gone and had a conversation with Pep Guardiola and talked about the squad and Zemoresca. He is what I call a dop, a disciple of Pep, as there are so many of them across football right now. How much of an influence does he take from Pep? And how much is it a case of, well, I'm my own man. I'm going to do things my way. Well, he can't banish the ghosts of Pep because it's so fresh in everybody's mind.

5:13It's just last season. He's a disciple of Pep Guardiola, let's put it that way, and he's going to emulate to a certain extent that style of football because Man City have brought him in for that reason. So I don't think it's a kind of Brian Clough trying to demolish what Don Revy did at Leeds United by any stretch of the imagination, but he's going in and he's losing a changing room of character. and I'm talking about if he loses Rodri and if Rodri goes for 60, 70 million for a 34, 35 year old you've got to take that kind of money but it's what's left behind he hasn't got the characters of John Stones he hasn't got the characters of Rodri that can get a hold of a change room he's still 30 I know but they lost Bernardo Silva as well which is going to be a massive character as well absolutely there's quite a stronghold of good characters in that change room that have all vacated the premises on the back of Pep Guardiola leaving.

6:07I think it's a massive challenge. It really is. Come on, Clint Morrison.

6:10Aaron Paul:First touch of the season. Let's have it. What are your thoughts on this situation? No, I totally agree. It is a massive challenge. Enzo Mareska has done a good job at Chelsea and he has got a different style of play. But Pep kind of groomed him, if you know what I mean. He was like, he's understudied. Then he went, obviously, to Chelsea. He's done a good job there. I thought they played attractive football. But I agree with what Brownie and Gailey say. if they lose Rodri they're in big trouble listen I still think Arsenal are the favourites regardless if Rodri stays or not but I think Rodri's at the peak he's the best midfielder in the world for me in that position at this moment in time he's the best I think you saw go on mate go on I'm saying not to stoke the fires up I'm just saying down the road Manchester United is doing a great job and the manager's going there he's steadied the ship he's finished the season like a house on fire they're decent in the transfer market for me they look favourites for finishing ahead of Man City yeah really it could not but I know what he's you know why I know what he's saying if Man United can get another midfielder and a left back which I think Michael Carrick wants I still think me personally I can understand what Brownie's saying but I still think Man City if they keep Rodgy will probably finish ahead of Man United at the moment but Clinton City paid City paid the fee for Elliot Anderson which Manchester United weren't willing to do yeah because it's a lot of money it's£117 million but Phil's talking about United potentially finishing above them.

7:35That's not just on one player, though, Aaron. That's not just on the decision of one player. But if Rodri moves, it's just a big void that they're going to leave in that changing room. What if they're going for Enzo Fernandes? This has got nothing to do with figures. This is quality of play. This is a guy that dominated the Premier League single-handedly for the last three or four seasons and the World Cup. It's a massive, massive loss to a Man City changing room, that for me.

8:00Aaron Paul:Let's talk more about this City midfield. Chelsea's deadline for clubs to bid£120 million for Enzo Fernandes has passed and they now expect Fernandes to stay at the club this season. Elliot Anderson is through the door though at the Etihad. Enzo Maresco has been speaking about Anderson replacing Bernardo Silva and City's trend of senior players leaving the football club. It's a big challenge. First of all, because Bernardo, you know, show how good he is on the ball, off the ball in these years. But again, Elliot arrived. We are completely sure that Elliot is doing a great job for this club in the next one, two, three, four, five years.

8:38No doubt about that. They are different players. They are different players. But we're going to try to use Elliot in the best way for him and for the team. You know, with Bernardo, John, Ake already, we see what's happened with some more players. But there is a change in this moment. and in the moment that the window transfer is closed, we need to be good enough to find as soon as possible solution for the players, for the team. But again, we are in a moment where, you know, players that they were here for many years, probably they already left, probably they can leave. And that means that there is a change and we're going to try to do our best.

9:19Aaron Paul:Enzo Mareska, the Manchester City boss there. Dwight, you know Elliot Anderson. and you were in the Newcastle squad with him. I mean, tell us about him as a teenager at Newcastle and maybe him sort of developing and playing more of a deeper role. Yeah, obviously he was someone that come into our squad at 18, a young boy, but obviously had the attributes that he had today. Someone that was so strong and powerful and he ended up being probably one of the best trainers in a team. I felt like he got a bit frustrated, the fact he didn't perhaps get the game time at that situation and sometimes you almost have to go away to get a bit of credit I always say to the young boys sometimes with the transition it can be very difficult because you almost feel like you should be playing but he obviously went on loan to Bristol Rovers and done unbelievable with them getting promotion to then coming back and having a bit of that credit to play and get a lot more game time but then obviously again with what I mentioned before, sometimes you've got players that are more established and more value to the club a bit.

10:27So I felt like you almost had to take that next step and sort of leave the club to where he goes to Nottingham Forest and he was unbelievable. So I know the character that he is, he's someone that's so fiery in tackles and he wants the ball for himself, like he'll win it back for the team and he's a fantastic character to add to that dressing room he has big obviously confidence and beliefs that he will go win stuff and he obviously showed that with England in the World Cup so. Dwight you know when you are building a side in the changing room and sometimes you stumble upon the right kind of character that comes in the changing room and enhances that changing room without even kicking a ball I think that trying to replace Rodri with a player and you just say the words 130 million, 140 million a lot of people are saying what we spend that money on have we spent that money on talent it's the bigger person it's the bigger character that I'm talking about to replace Rodri is this the character that we're talking about?

11:27Yeah he's definitely got the character in the dress room to add to that I feel like obviously he's becoming more and more mature it's something that he's starting to lead by example and he definitely had that role at Nottingham Forest the fact that they've spent that much money is going to be on him to start demanding more respect and paving the way for the City boys as well. The fact that they've had to change a manager is going to allow that even more, I think. So hopefully he continues with his development and starts becoming, like you say, that big character in the dressing room. It's a good point, actually, Aaron.

12:04You know, the fact that the manager's brought him in, you know, that's the main part. You know, if it's his man, he can step up to the plate a little bit earlier. Do you know what I mean?

12:12Aaron Paul:Has the manager brought him in, Clinton? or is this a transfer committee decision? If you'll be able to answer that better than me, I don't know how Man City do their business there, but it looks like it could, it might be the club signing, but whatever it is, he's a top player. Elliot Anderson's been fantastic over the last couple of years. His development in his football, now a regular for England, and I thought he was good at the World Cup. He gets on the ball, he wants to make things happen. He's not Bernardo Silva because they're different kind of players. Bernardo Silva's got the experience, so I wouldn't compare him to like Bernardo Silva.

12:42It's difficult. and you know what, people talk about the money. He doesn't set the price tag. That's just what's happening at the moment in the market with a young English player. Look at Morgan Rodgers, the amount of money he's going for and we're talking about Enzo Fernandes going for 120 million if Man City want him. I think Elliot Anderson will be a really, really good signing. And you know what? He deserves that move. He deserves that. He's been excellent, outstanding. Newcastle never wanted to sell him. They had to sell him for financial reasons. He went to Nottingham Forest and he just dominated it and I think it'll be a really good signing for Man City.

13:13Aaron Paul:Are they on the hunt for a partner next to him though? Because Tajani Rinders looks like he's going to be heading away. As you're trying to sell Rodri already. Stop selling Rodri. He's still in the building. Wait, we'll have that discussion when he's not in the building. But the problem they've got is obviously he's got a year left on his deal, Clinton. It's a year left on his deal. And City don't want to be letting anyone go for free, especially someone who's, you know, kind of at the peak of their powers at 30 years of age. If City have got the money that they're supposed to have, in my opinion, they would never let Rodri go.

13:44He's just finished a World Cup. Does he want to stay there? He's won the World Cup for Spain. I don't think he would. I think that the appeal of going back to Spain for one of the big two, I think, is too big of a pull. And I think that's what's in his mind. He could play until he's 40, though. It'd always be Barcelona, though, because he's played for Atletico. I know, but I'm not sure on what team he loves, but I do think he probably feels that he's won everything he can at Man City. He's won the World Cup, he's won the Ballon d 'Or, he's won the Euros and I think he wants to leave a mark on going to live in Spain and play for one of the big teams over there.

14:20I think he'd love to, if it's Barcelona, take them to win another Champions League there. In a crazy way though, Dwayne, is it a pop at the new manager coming in? Because ultimately, don't get me wrong, listen Clinton, I'm not saying directly, I understand what you're saying you're more or less saying Pep's gone I'm gone I understand what you're saying and as Dwight said and you make a good point he's thinking I've learnt so much under Pep Guardiola Dwight's right he's won everything there is to win now he goes to Barcelona the style of football suits him he'll be big out there he'll be a legend out in Spain winning the World Cup I think it could happen and obviously we've been hearing about bids that they've made a 55 million bid for him already if Aaron you're telling me he's got a year left they'll definitely it will happen and I know Man City fans won't want to hear it but most likely it will happen

15:08Aaron Paul:the people who run Manchester City I mean you yeah they're not silly let's just say that they always are able to recover remarkable sums for their players and I don't think Rodri is going to be leaving on a free transfer who knows who knows I doubt it though because you know they've brought in fees for Akanji Ake the James Trafford fee is absolutely huge this summer and Tijani Rinders will go for a large amount of money as well. Do they need another midfielder, though, on top of Elliot Anderson? Because obviously this Enzo Fernandes story has popped up over the past couple of weeks. Chelsea then set a deadline, which I wouldn't be surprised if other clubs do that now.

15:47Aaron Paul:Set a deadline of, we want X, Y, Z, buy X, Y, Z, pay it or you're not getting your man. £120 million was the fee set by Chelsea by 5 o 'clock today. Or if someone offers more than that on September 1st, would be interesting wouldn't it the midfield player that probably is in the background is the England left back if you like because he can play in midfield can't he he doesn't he doesn't mind going into that position and Man City have honed his skills in that position then he's been playing left back then he's been playing centre back I think they've got a ready made replacement in there in terms of technical side of the game who's playing left back he's talking I think he's talking about Niko O 'Reilly he's talking about O 'Reilly but no you're talking about O 'Reilly so what Nuri goes to left back Yeah, well, they paid big money for him, didn't they?

16:32Yeah, they did pay big money for Agnoui, but O 'Reilly was so good under Pep, scored like double figures last season. But it's a good shout-out field because that is his position. And we've seen him play there many a time. So they might have a gem there. I think, you know why he wants Enzo? They talk about Enzo Fernandes. Because they pay for him. Yeah, he worked with Maresca. And obviously, you've lost Bernardo Silva. But you've got to still think they've got the likes of Foden, they've got Cherky, they've got Semenyo, they've got Dokus. You do forget, don't you? You forget, Aaron, look, all these names are real enough.

17:01And then they've still got the main man up front, number nine, Haaland, who's going to be the top goal scorer again. So you can never sleep on Man City, that's for sure.

17:10Aaron Paul:I mean, in terms of City and building that Maresca side, having watched him at Leicester, watched him at Chelsea as well, this is going to be quite similar to Pep. Who do you expect the key players to be in his starting XI on Sunday, Dwight? like Clinton said to be fair you've got someone like Haaland who's going to cause havoc in any defence and he's going to score a lot of goals throughout the season you know that Cherky obviously finished the season really well and he would have been a bit frustrated at his World Cup and I think he'll be ready almost get him looking to make an impact at the start of the season so I think those two are your big names straight away and like I say I still think there's a lot of room for transfers I think there's a I think the reason that a lot of people are trying to make deadlines at the moment, I feel because a lot of numbers that are probably getting chucked out are getting really high because of the situation of Morgan Rodgers and Elliot Anderson.

18:07I think people are automatically going to be stamping high prices on people and I think that's going to just slow things down. I'm thinking it will go towards the end of the transfer window before we see a lot more movement. You've got two weeks to go. I think it'll be late, to be honest. I think Gay is going to be a big player for him next year. Centre half for me, He looked like he was grown in stature towards the end of the season and the season then comes and he's England. All of these things are building in his career. I think it'll be a massive season for him next year.

18:35Aaron Paul:Where does that leadership group then emerge in the Manchester City squad? Ruben Diaz is the club captain. He's 29 years old. Mark Gay, of course, has shown. He's got those capabilities, especially when he was at Crystal Palace. Matej Kovacic is a senior member of that squad. But where do you build that group now, that group of lieutenants, effectively, Clinton, who are going to be able to be trusted by the boss, to drive messages forward and to really push this team? Well, it feels right about Mark Gay. Mark Gay could even be the captain. I don't know if he will, because there's talk of maybe Ruben Diaz.

19:12And he said he might not give it to Haaland, but they've got a lot of experienced players in there with the leadership. if they keep Rodri, Rodri, there's a leadership. You've got Diaz, you've got Mark Gay. There's a lot of big characters there. Even Haaland can be in the leadership group. I know he's still at an age, but he's a talisman. He's the main man. So they've got a lot of experience in there. And even someone like Phil Foden, he's won everything and he's still young. And he didn't have the best of seasons, Phil Foden. And he'll be devastated he didn't go to the World Cup. So this season, when we're mentioning players and standout players, I think he has to come into the equation as because I think he's got a point to prove Phil Fodor and we know he's an exceptional talent Man City still have a lot of good players and I don't think they're finishing the market and as Dwight said it will go right down to the wire they'll probably sign a few players late and they might lose Rodri but I still think they'll be competitive and they've got a lot of top players you ask Phil now with the list of players I've just mentioned he'd love to be going in there and managing their players you mentioned Donnarumma you're talking about big big players you know Listen, when you go into a changing room like that, you know what it's like, Clinton.

20:20You've got to go in there as a manager and you've got to make your mark. And how you make your mark is either style of football or style of management, whichever the case may be. But I've always said for the control of the changing room as a manager, a strong manager, you've got to be able to control the big boys. And you've got to identify the big boys. And the more you have, the stronger that changing room, the stronger that bond with the manager is. You know, the management group is now left and the new ones come in. That's, for me, it's a real telltale sign. I think it's a big game for them this weekend.

20:46I really do. If they can put a marker down early on in the season against an Arsenal team, early on being a charity shield, it doesn't matter. It's not just a pre-season friendly. This is a big game. This is a statement of intent, I think, from Man City. And maybe even a Rodri. It may be a statement of intent to showcase, right, I'm at City at the start of the season and I'm staying. It might be a big weekend for them.

21:08Aaron Paul:How do we get that swaggy Phil Foden back? I use that word swaggy very loosely. I know there are many better other words. Clinton, I'll come to you in a moment or so, but Dwight, first up, how does he relight his fire? I feel that the manager's just got to put his arm around him, really. I think it's really important, like you say, the first few games. He just needs to get his confidence back. We obviously know how good of a player he is, some of his technical abilities off the charts, and no one can get close to him with it. So I think it's really important that you build a player like that with as much confidence as you can.

21:43give him the game time he needs and try to work the game around him sometimes because we saw two or three years ago player of the year, how good he could be and we saw someone that we thought was going to be the best player in England for the next four or five years. So we need to sort of see that player again and I think confidence is first and foremost and that comes from the manager.

22:03Aaron Paul:Clinton Morrison, Steve Bruce must have had many an arm around your shoulder. Yeah, but I don't know if the wife's like me but he probably is not. But centre forwards, Phil would tell you We've worked with the lows. We all need arms around us. Phil Foden probably does, and he's a top player, unbelievable player. But as you say, when you have a season like, obviously, that he had last season, you can suffer low on confidence. I don't mean because you're a top player, you can't dip out of form, because it happens to the very best. But he will rediscover his form, for sure, because he's a top player.

22:34But I think if Maresca goes in there and says, you're my main man, and Phil Foden feels like he's going to be playing week in, week out, he gets confidence. But if you come in for one game, come out for three or four games, your confidence is low. But he's going to have to, he's going to be challenging Cherky and we know the ability Cherky has got because he wants to play in the number 10 and so does Phil Folden. But when you're at a club like Man City, you're going to have competition for places. But Dwight's right, if he can rediscover that form where he got player of the season, he'll be a regular.

23:00I like Phil Folden. I think he's a top player.