Manchester United’s latest nightmare & Sunderland shine in Europe – 5 Live reaction

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0:53This is the Football Daily Podcast with Aaron Paul.

0:58Aaron Paul:Manchester United have thrown away a 2-0 lead against Brighton in the third round of the Carabao Cup and they've been knocked out by three goals to two alongside us. Joby McEnough and Old Trafford, Clinton Morrison and our football correspondent John Murray. Let's get straight into it. John, just refresh us of the nature of the time. What actually happened? Yes, this just the latest famous day for Brighton here at Old Trafford. Their fifth win in their last six visits here. What a record that is. And what adds to this latest nightmare for Manchester United is that they'd responded to Sunday's derby defeat by going 2-0 up inside 10 minutes.

1:35Shea Lacey scored his first senior goal on his first start. We thought then that may well be the story of the night. Mason Mount swiftly made it 2-0. But Brighton took stock, settled, found their feet, deservedly got a goal back through Costoulas before half-time. And then Brighton hit United with two quick goals of their own just past the hour. Pascal Gross, his eighth goal against them and substitute Maxim de Kuyper's finish turned out to be the match winner after Marcus Rashford threw one-on-one, was denied by Brighton keeper Jason Steele's right leg.

2:08Aaron Paul:Yeah, absolutely. Fabian Herzler called Jason Steele the best number two about. He's an experienced player. He's talking to television right now. Great save from the Brighton keeper. Just take us to full time though, Clinton Morrison. The boos were loud, weren't they? Yeah, Man United fans were not happy. It was a disappointing performance. You know, 2-0 up and you end up losing it 3-2. And you could have lost by more, to be fair. Some big, big chances went for Brighton in that second half. And I thought Brighton were fantastic. As soon as Brighton made mistakes for the second goal. But as soon as Brighton went 2-0 down, they just changed.

2:41And they clicked into gear and got their passing right. And as I said, positive performance for Brighton. And that's how good we were picking them up before Brighton. That's how good Herzl and this group of Brighton players are. you can afford to make six changes and still dominate a Man United team.

2:55Aaron Paul:Joby, I mean, you've watched Michael Carrick teams for a while and it was kind of symptomatic of what we saw at Middlesbrough. Things perhaps starting to fall apart a little bit in that second season. We're not seeing something similar here, are we? No, listen, I think we've got to be very careful that we don't go too over the top. Listen, Michael is incredibly experienced. He knows that club inside out and he would know more than anyone that the results have not been good enough this season. And he'll be concerned. Again, I've got a touch on the goals they've conceded. Two against Hull. Even the win against Ipswich, two.

3:28Everton, two. 4-0 against Sabah, fair enough. Manchester City. And then tonight, you know, three. You cannot win football games when you're conceding two goals every week. And, you know, that is a big problem. I think also the problem when you talk about Brighton and how good they were. The way that they connect throughout the pitch, whether it's the centre-halves when they're trying to play out with the midfield, the rotations, the movement, everybody is on the same page. where Manchester United were the complete opposite of that tonight. Times where Jorreau or Heaven are trying to get on the ball.

3:56They've got no options. They end up losing the ball. I mean, the goal that they conceded when they were trying to play out, Heaven and Jorreau, they're trying to play out. They are the width of the 18-yard ball. It is ridiculous. And then Gross is just standing in the middle of the box, gets the ball played to him, and he's almost in on goal by himself. You know, it's just there's a real lack of cohesion and togetherness.

4:17Aaron Paul:Clinton Morrison, is this tactical? I mean, take me through the sort of root cause of this issue. I guess everyone's searching for that right now. They have been searching for that since Sir Alex Ferguson left the football club all those years ago. Is this tactical? Is it psychological? Is it an ego thing? What is the problem here? No, I don't think it's tactical. I think Michael Carrick, listen, you've got to remember the job he'd done for them last season when Ruben Amarin was struggling. So I can't just throw everything at Michael Carrick. He's obviously made changes today, give some of his squad players, and it just goes to show his squad players are not good enough at the moment to come in and have an influence at this moment in time.

4:53They're not bad players. I like Heaven and Euro, but they're young players and they're learning at the moment. And I think they're probably playing both of them together. Could he look and say that was a gamble? Maybe he could have had experience with him. As Joby said, they're conceding goals in the Premier League as well. So I don't think it's tactical. I just think at the end of the day, they just haven't got it right at the moment, Man United. Because last season we were praising them for how good they were. So you can't just flip like that and then say, oh, is it tactical? I don't think it's tactical.

5:19I just don't think I'm putting in performance at the moment why they're getting three points. Because you saw it when they lost to Hull, conceding the last minute, obviously a screamer from Maitland now is against Everton. So, yeah, it's just disappointing. Things are not going for them at the moment. But as I said, Sunday's a big game, because you don't want to go into the international break off the back of three defeats in a row.

5:40Aaron Paul:John, two wins out of six for Michael Carrick this season. Ipswich and Sabah in the Champions League. Realistically, is the pressure on him right now? Well, I mean, they've just given him a two-year contract, haven't they? Really, at the end of last season. And, you know, lots of complimentary things said about the way that the ship was steady. And I think particularly the home record, you know, that's been a problem for many of those Manchester United fans that we were talking about earlier over the years. Do you remember how it used to be here that teams used to fear coming to Manchester United to play here at Old Trafford and, you know, everything that it entails.

6:21And in the latter part of last season, from when he took over, you know, Manchester United, you know, regained a little bit of that. I know Leeds came here and won, but, you know, it feels like that's been fritted away in the space of a few days.

6:36Aaron Paul:Joby, tactically, in terms of Michael Carrick, I mean, it was a 4-2-3-1. you know what you're going to get from them. But what about the subs? Bringing Shea Lacey off, who was pretty impressive. That goal was fabulous. Bringing on Brian Umbermo. Shesko came off. Mason Mount for Bruno Fernandes. Could you look there and pick up any analysis of that? Well, only that those players need to be doing better. You know, you look at the quality and the calibre of those players. You know, Umbermo, you've spoken about. Fernandes, we all know what he brings to the party. I think they've got a problem. You talk about at the back end of the pitch, but I certainly think forward areas as well.

7:13Look at if it is Acuna, he's not really a nine for me. He wants to come in and drop in. Cesco is a bit hit and miss. So again, with a team that has supposedly a lot of talent from an attacking point of view, I still think that number nine is a little bit of a problem for them at the moment.

7:31Aaron Paul:It feels confused a lot of the time. You don't know what Manchester United is going to turn up and it feels, John Clinton, that if a team can get ahead, and they didn't go ahead, Brighton, you know, initially, I mean, Manchester United were 2-0 up, but if a team can get themselves a better leverage on them, there's a very soft underbelly there. Yeah, you could say that, and they are conceding a lot of goals at the moment, but it's just a difficult one for Man United because you're looking at it and you're thinking, I know the Champions League game, you expected them to win the Champions League game and they were on the front foot, but in the league and these cup games, They haven't started yet.

8:08And it goes to show to me what everyone was saying. You should have strengthened in them defensive areas. And people will say it's an ageing defence. And it's still got young players in there. But at the moment, I just feel if Bruno's not on top of his game, Man United don't win football matches. I think they're so reliant on Bruno Fernandes. And there's got to be other players that have to step up to the mark. I mean, I think you need, you know, the character that you need at Manchester United is probably greater than at any other club or as great as at any other club because of the scrutiny and the pressure and I think probably even more so in the time in which we live because you cannot get away with it.

8:49You can't get away from it. That scrutiny, the pressure, that feeling that you're being talked about and the feeling that you're not good enough. You're not good enough compared to what's gone by in the history of this club.

9:02Aaron Paul:But, John, you play for Manchester United. To quote the godfather, this is the business we have chosen. Absolutely so. But you've then got to deliver. It's just very confused. I mean, just looking ahead to Fulham at the weekend, John, live on Five Live Sport, half past four. Craven Cottage will be ready. Look, they had a morale-boosting win yesterday at West Hamful. They weren't great by all stretch of the imagination, but they will be bang up for this. and Alvaro Abelhoa will want to go into the international break having picked up a win. But I suppose this is a one where, you know, that's where you need character at Craven Cottage in that sort of scenario.

9:42And out of the international window, it's then Tottenham here, 5.30 match on the Saturday after the internationals. That speaks for itself. And then Atletico Madrid away in the Champions League, then Leeds away in the Premier League. That's a testing room.

9:59Aaron Paul:John, let's head to the tunnel at Old Trafford. Pascal Gross is with Gary Flintoff. He is indeed. Thank you, Aaron. Pascal, congratulations once again. This is a very, very special place, both for you and for your football club. Yeah, I think we had a lot of very good games here in the last couple of years. Today was really tough after 2-0 down to come back. I think showed a lot of character from the team, so I'm really pleased with the team. What is the secret then? Why do Brighton enjoy playing here at Old Trafford? I don't know. I think it helps when you won here before, because it can be intimidating to play here.

10:43But we believed at halftime, the manager, all the players, we had the feeling that 2-1 before halftime helped, that we now are in the game. We have to play obviously way better than we did at the start, but I had the feeling we grew into the game and then second half, I think we played well. And in terms of that feeling, clearly a lot of that is down to your own ability, the way in which you've gone about it, but did you sort of feel a nervousness around Old Trafford from the Manchester United fans, which may have helped you as well? Yeah, when you score and turn the game around, that's what happens at big clubs.

11:20It can be painful when they come at you. It can be also difficult for yourself when they're behind the home team. So it depends on you, how well you play, how the fans react. In the end, I had the feeling we control the game, we play really well. I also had the feeling in the end we even could finish the game 4-2 to have a couple more minutes, a little bit more peace. But in the end, it's a really great result for us. many congratulations well done again I'm sure you'd like to play here every week thank you very much

11:56Aaron Paul:Gary thank you so much Gary Flintoff with Pascal Gross after Brighton and Hove Albion complete the turnaround 2-0 down to 3-2 winners and into the fourth round of the EFL Cup Joby McEnough just on Brighton we talk about resilience about stepping up to the plate that's what we've heard from John Murray that's what we've heard from Clinton Morrison about having that attitude they just look bang on it They're ready to capitalise on any mistake you make. Yeah, and we've spoken a lot about what Manchester United are not doing right at this moment in time. But, you know, let's not get too sidetracked with that and take away from what Brighton are doing.

12:32Not just tonight, but at the start of this season. You know, I said at the top of the show, I watched them against Aston Villa. They were absolutely magnificent. Just a really good team to watch. The way that they play, you know, again, big question marks coming into this season. losing Danny Welbeck, obviously chipped in with a big portion of goals last year. Where are those goals going to come from? And now everybody's starting to step up. I mean, Kostoulas, he's a prime example. You know, we talk about the trade-in and, you know, not every player being a hit, but he's been allowed time. He struggled last year, you know, really did only a couple of goals.

13:04He's already got three this season. You know, we spoke about Yao Kuei as well, goes away, comes back. They bring him back into the environment. Ayari's another one. He's had a time away. So the overall model and the way that they do things at this football club is absolutely phenomenal. That's obviously being massively supported by the coach and what he's doing with the players on the pitch as well. And yeah, there's just a real synergy throughout the whole football club.

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15:17Aaron Paul:Let's turn our attention to European football. There's been a historic win at the Stadium of Light, where Sunderland have beaten AZ Alkmaar on their return to Europe by a goal to nil. Rob Law. Yes, after waiting 53 years to once again grace the European stage, Sunderland did so tonight with a battling performance and more importantly, a historic win. Enzo Le Fay sparkled, hitting the post in the first half before winning a penalty in the second. Not a flicker of doubt in his eyes as he stepped up and stroked it into the same corner that David Reyes saved for Arsenal on Saturday. This time, though, it was undeniable.

15:54Mickey Horswell was the last Sunderland player to score in Europe over half a century has passed since then and now Enzo Lafayre's name will sit alongside his in the history books. Fitting that such a historic goal came in front of the Roker end, no less. Sunderland won AZ Alkmaar nil, the full-time score.

16:11Aaron Paul:We had the legendary Gary Bennett on pre-game looking ahead to the match. With us now, Sunderland legend Marco Gabbiadini, the iconic Marco Gabbiadino. Marco, thank you for joining us on Five Live Sport this evening. thank you for the big build up Aaron come on, come on it's all respect, it's all respect it's a proper throwback show tonight what does this game mean to you and not just to the football club but the people of Sunderland yeah look I'm lucky to be associated to the club by playing for the club obviously I went off had a few more years playing and I've come back to it, I've been following the club closely, I work for BBC local radio, BBC Newcastle and we follow Sunderland every night of the week.

16:56And, yeah, we've had some big ups and downs over the last 17 years of that show. But, yeah, tonight was very special. I mean, this stadium is built for nights like that. You know, my old chairman, Bob Murray, built the place, a good friend of mine, and, you know, he built it for nights like this, and the fans didn't let him down. And it's the fans who deserve, you know, a lot of credit and a lot of applaud, it's because when we were down in the third tier of English football and we didn't really know where we were going for a couple of years when we were down there they stuck with the club and regularly 30 ,000-35 ,000 in the stadium for those matches so there's been a lot of talk about those visits to Cheltenham and defeats at Bolton in the third tier but tonight they got what they deserved and a historic win.

17:52It wasn't always easy. I felt like I think I've left some fingernail marks in the desk tonight. It was a bit tense but on the whole I think Sunderland created more chances and looked a little bit more dangerous around the box. Mark, I just wanted to pick up on Enzo Le Fay. Obviously missed what ended up being a crucial penalty last time out but picked himself up. I mean, he is an absolute superstar. I remember watching him when he first came into the club and just that adjustment period that he needed to acclimatise and get to grips with with football in this country but I mean what a talent he is yeah when you're right when he came uh we were it was that he was a January signing which are always a risk risk and he was a you know he was a big signing he'd had a big move to Roma and it hadn't quite worked for him there but as soon as you saw him he was like a Rolls-Royce you know his touch and his vision are exceptional.

18:46Before the game tonight, we were lucky to get Mickey Horswell on our show this afternoon. I said to Mickey then, Enzo's my favourite player at the moment at the club. I just think he's just got the balance and the poise that you need to just play that position he's in. We need to get the ball to him a little bit more often. That's maybe one of our issues. But once he was in the box and he danced through, You could see he was going to obviously have the chance, but it got chopped down. But nice to see him finish the penalty. I think it was a slightly different penalty tonight. Same corner, but I always dislike the bendy knee.

19:25I always call it, you know, when England, David Batty and all the, you know, they always did that big bendy knee and then opened the body up. And you just telegraph it. But tonight he just approached the ball a bit quicker and hit it, you know, more crisply.

19:39Aaron Paul:Let's get the thoughts of the Sunderland boss, Regis Labrice. I think we started well. The first half, we imposed ideas. They were mobile, especially in high press. But we imposed this press progressively, created chances as well. Many crosses, shots, second balls and so on. Didn't score in the first half. So in the second half, we scored. and then the game was totally open after that. They created chances because they are really good on the ball and repeat. They play with freedom, took more risks as well and we had our chances in the second half and finally it's three points and I think it's important we show up to win and it was an important night for us, for the club, for the fans and at the end it's a good win.

20:35Aaron Paul:John Murray has been at Old Trafford for us this evening But John, I mean, just the past couple of years has just breathed life back into the football club. And it feels like a real, real hot box of emotions right now. Yeah, I think it probably gives, you know, the supporters of many other clubs who have been on their uppers. And we've been watching Brighton tonight. And they're now playing European football, finishing in the top of the Premier League. Bournemouth are going to be involved in European football tomorrow night. What a trip that is. Real Sociedad for Bournemouth in European football.