In short
The episode (Monday Nightclub) debates the Premier League title race and Tottenham’s relegation fight. Topic 1: Arsenal “bottling it” vs City’s momentum. Guests argue Arsenal haven’t “bottled” anything historically, but this season they’ve repeatedly failed to seize chances to create daylight.
Key claims
Arsenal’s lead is down to six points; City have a game in hand and face Arsenal at the Etihad. Arsenal’s recent losses (notably Bournemouth at home) are more worrying for the manner of defeat and a perceived clunkiness in the final third, even though underlying chances look strong (Arsenal 2nd for expected goals; only 1.9 fewer goals than xG).
Notable examples
Arsenal’s League Cup final loss to Southampton; Wolves draw; City’s emphatic win over Chelsea; City’s recent attacking form (Cherki, Doku, Semenyo, Haaland mentioned). Topic 2: Spurs under Roberto De Zerbi.
Key claims
Spurs are in the relegation zone, two points from safety, with no “bounce” yet (one defeat in his first match). De Zerbi frames his approach as confidence-building (“big brother or father… they don’t need a coach”).
Notable examples
Tottenham’s 1-0 win over Sunderland in his first game; 14 league games without a win.
Guests
Chris Sutton (ex-player/manager), Rory Smith (football writer), Nader Manua (former player).
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOAnalyzing Arsenal's Title Race
1:49 to 3:42
Discussion on Arsenal's position in the Premier League title race.
“Unsurprisingly we will start with the Premier League title race.”
Bottling It: The Debate
3:42 to 7:48
Debate on whether Arsenal is 'bottling' their title chances and the implications.
“So is there a way to express all of that in a sentence then, Chris?”
Performance Analysis and Pressure
7:48 to 13:19
Analysis of Arsenal's recent performances and the pressure of title contention.
“But I think the difference now, which is based on its head, based on previous seasons, City aren't playing Champions League midweek, Arsenal are.”
Arsenal's Season Performance
14:01 to 15:00
Discussion on Arsenal's playing style and how it affects their performance.
“Arsenal have never been, this season, have never been a particularly thrilling attacking force.”
Expected Goals Analysis
15:01 to 16:00
Exploration of expected goals and Arsenal's scoring efficiency.
“But I think a lot of that is because of the way that the two teams are set up to play.”
Pressure of Experience in Title Races
16:01 to 17:11
Comparison of pressure faced by Arsenal and Manchester City players.
“Arsenal ranked second in the league, yeah?”
Historical Context of Winning Titles
17:12 to 18:35
Insights into Blackburn Rovers' experience and how it relates to Arsenal.
“I don't know about the football changes stuff Steve you're sounding like Rory Smith there.”
Management Experience and Composure
18:36 to 19:54
Discussion on the calming influence of experienced management in title races.
“because at Blackburn we did start to wilt And I think there was doubt which kicked in.”
The Intensity of Title Contenders
19:55 to 21:41
Analysis of the psychological aspects involved in competing for the title.
“So I do think that that doubt, the longer this goes, and certainly at the weekend, it's a monumental game, that if Arsenal don't get over the line, that is when their nerve will be severely tested.”
Guardiola vs. Arteta: Pressure Management
21:42 to 22:52
Comparative analysis of Guardiola and Arteta's ability to handle pressure.
“I mean, yeah, in fairness, we're used to getting some wild calls.”
Show all 23 chapters
Financial Context of Club Success
22:53 to 24:13
Discussion on financial differences impacting Arsenal and City's competition.
“Whereas Arteta's win ratio drops through the season, which I think is probably natural and everyone's does, but it goes down to about, I think it's about 41 % in April.”
Clutch Performance in High-Pressure Moments
24:14 to 25:11
Exploration of clutch performances in football under pressure.
“And maybe less so in the Champions League where he tends to overthink it.”
Psychological Resilience in Title Races
25:12 to 27:04
Insights into how psychological resilience impacts teams in title races.
“where Pep Guardiola has done something where you think, that's odd.”
Differences in Mindset Between Title Contenders
27:05 to 28:00
Discussing the different mentalities of Arsenal and Manchester City players.
“Do you know where like, oh, this is good, this is bad, all these overreactions.”
The Pressure of Title Contention
28:00 to 29:17
Discussing the different pressures faced by Arsenal and Manchester City in their title race.
“You know, City are not playing with that historical pressure.”
Historical Context vs. Present Performance
29:18 to 31:27
Examining how historical context affects player mindset and fan expectations for Arsenal.
“So I understand Arsenal's history from that standpoint.”
Arteta's Challenge and Fan Expectations
31:28 to 32:58
Analyzing Mikel Arteta's position at Arsenal and the expectations for the upcoming season.
“and can reel them in because of Pep's experience, there were players in there who have been there and done it, and they have that quality.”
Booing and Fan Reactions
32:59 to 35:06
Discussing the phenomenon of fans booing their team and its implications.
“Because at some point you can win and bore a team, but if you don't bore the fans, you have to win.”
Positioning in the Title Race
35:07 to 37:18
Debating the advantages of being at the top versus second in the Premier League title race.
“Last thing on this, because I think it's a nice way to finish the chat.”
Spurs Struggles and De Zerbi's Philosophy
38:21 to 40:17
Analyzing Tottenham's struggles and Roberto De Zerbi's coaching philosophy amidst confidence issues.
“No new manager bounce thus far for Roberto De Zerbi.”
The Need for Confidence in Football
40:18 to 42:01
Discussing how confidence affects player performance, especially in struggling teams.
“But as every game passes, I'm like, well, why do I believe that?”
Analyzing Igor Tudor's Coaching Impact
42:01 to 46:04
Explore the implications of Igor Tudor's coaching style on player morale and performance.
“And with all due respect to Hugo Tudor, I don't think he necessarily got the place to be any better throughout his tenure there.”
Deserbi's Approach and Spurs' Challenges
46:05 to 50:08
Discuss how Deserbi's methods differ from traditional coaching and the current challenges faced by Spurs.
“this is what these players need, this is what they can do, and this is what they are good at.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK.
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1:07Make your travel dollars work harder. Follow Smart Travel on your favourite podcast app. This is the Monday Nightclub with Steve Crossman on the Football Daily Podcast. Hello, welcome to the Monday Nightclub on the Football Daily Podcast. loads to get into. We'll do a big breakdown of the title race. Manchester City going six points behind Arsenal with a game in hand with Arsenal visiting the Etihad live on 5 Live on Sunday. We'll talk Spurs Roberto De Zerbe losing his first match in charge. They are in the relegation zone and they're two points from safety. All of that on the way in the company of Chris Sutton, Rory Smith and Nader Manua.
1:46Hello everybody. Hiya. Hiya. You alright? You alright? Unsurprisingly we will start with the Premier League title race. So Arsenal's lead at the top is six now. They lost at home to Bournemouth. Manchester City thumped Chelsea at Stamford Bridge. So six points, but City obviously have a game in hand and they face each other at the Etihad live on 5 Live at 4.30 on Sunday. We thought we would talk a bit, Rory, about the notion of bottling it. Because it's come up a lot as a phrase. Is it always disrespectful and is it unfair? and if so, is there a better adjective to use for what's happening at Arsenal?
2:26I think over the last three years, Arsenal have been unfairly accused of bottling various things at various times. The first season that they finished second, they were very much on the up. They were a young team coming together. They went close. They fell short. That's fair enough. The second season, I think you can maybe make the case that they had the chance and didn't take it, which I suppose in some harsh lights might be the B word but also you're dealing with a Man City team that was about to win its fourth straight title you have to take the quality of the opposition into account last year I don't think they bottled anything because they didn't lose that title Liverpool won it and those are different things this year obviously there's still six games to play it all depends it's been a significant few weeks in terms of shifting momentum in the title race But I think what you can definitely accuse Arsenal of this season, not just on Saturday, but they have had quite a few opportunities to put daylight between themselves and Man City and they have taken none of them.
3:26And that's why they're now in a position where, having led the Premier League for six months, more or less, having looked like nailed on champions most of that time, they go to City on Sunday. And if they lose, it will feel very much like it's Man City's title to lose. So is there a way to express all of that in a sentence then, Chris? Because there is part of me that thinks that because of the culture that we live in now where everything is either amazing or awful, if Arsenal win at Manchester City, there will be mentality monsters or whatever. And if they lose, then they are, inverted commas, bottling it.
4:04Like a team's never as good and never as bad as we think or what?
4:07Chris Sutton:I think so. And I think, you know, you're bang on with that, you know, that assumption, you know, next week, if Arsenal get any sort of result, we'll be praising them to the hilt. You know, we will be. I don't think they're bottling. I think that anybody can lose to Manchester City, as Arsenal did in the League Cup final. Did Arsenal perform well? No. It was Arsenal reserves who lost to Southampton. and losing to Bournemouth. Bournemouth are a good team. I mean, they are. It was more the manner in which Arsenal lost, I think, which would worry the Arsenal fans. I think the Arsenal fan base are very nervy.
4:51Chris Sutton:That's not helping. But I'd still rather be in Arsenal's position than Manchester City's position. I think they just feel like they're a club because of recent results, where from the outside, I think they look like they're burdened as such. But that can all change. Look at the position they're in. I mean, they're one up against Sporting Lisbon in the Champions League, so close to a Champions League semi-final. And then the opportunity to go to Manchester City, which they're well capable of, and getting some sort of result, that's a possibility but because of Manchester City the nature of their recent performances, I mean let's get it right they beat a bang average Liverpool team who sort of everybody other than Fulham at the weekend have been doing pretty well against and Chelsea, they beat Chelsea well actually and I suppose that would be the worry Arsenal fans watching that game thinking blimey look at their front players look at the way sort of Cherkies playing look at you know look at Semenyu Doku Harland hasn't you know maybe sort of hit the heights which he did earlier on in the season but that would be the worry but they've just got to keep the composure it's all about mindset I think for Arsenal
6:14Nedum Onuoha:Yeah I think that's fair and I think in regards to the idea of like bossing it I think that's based on the last few years and what the expectations were for them to be leading from the front and then in some ways in years gone by to say draw too many games or lose games that they shouldn't be losing. But I think this last run of games has been interesting from an Arsenal perspective because we're talking about it across three different competitions. You know, they lost in the League Cup final. They lost in the FA Cup. They lost one league game. The last league loss was against Man United in January.
6:44Nedum Onuoha:So the momentum that they have like in the league itself isn't as bad as it feels based on some of those more recent results. So for them, the league is still very much in their hands. I think Arteta is somebody that understands that. But I think I'm with you, Chris, in some ways, like, it's the nature of some of the performances, not necessarily the results. And that goes beyond some of those, like, drop points. Like, even in some of the wins, it's been a bit uncertain. You know, the draw that they had with Wolves, for example, that's not something we thought they'd be doing. And I think, for me, what really matters at this moment is, like, how does the team feel?
7:17Nedum Onuoha:Do they feel good? Do they feel like it's just a blip? Or do they feel like something's happening, which they're starting to doubt themselves? And I think maybe you'd agree with this, Chris, but the moment a player or a team has doubt themselves, the teams they're playing against gain more belief and as a consequence, they almost play them in a different manner. Whereas at the start of the year, it felt like once Arsenal went 1-0 up, the game was done. Whereas now certain teams are sort of playing in a different manner. But the players that Arsenal have are good enough to get through this spell.
7:45Nedum Onuoha:They're good enough to be able to go to the Etihad at the weekend and get a positive result for themselves. But I think the difference now, which is based on its head, based on previous seasons, City aren't playing Champions League midweek, Arsenal are. You know, Arsenal have got that thing to deal with before they can even look ahead to the next game, whereas for City they're planning for that game right now and that I think in some ways is an advantage. Chris said last week that he didn't think the defeats to City and particularly Southampton would kind of be playing on the Arsenal players' minds and I will always bow to Chris Sutton on these matters because he has been there and I have not.
8:23Chris, do you still think that's true do you think that they'll be able to shake off losing to Bournemouth um I think I think with
8:29Chris Sutton:every passing defeat you know just trying to put myself in you know in an Arsenal player's position and you know we're going to talk about Bournemouth uh and give them a lot of praise uh you know that in the next you know 20 minutes uh whatever Bournemouth are a really capable team I think that Arsenal, in sort of recent weeks, certainly in the final third, they have looked a little bit clunky where it's not been free-flowing. And I know there's been a lot made of, and some of it tongue-in-cheek, about the way that they've played and relying on long throws and set plays. I just wonder whether that sort of, them finding a way to get over the line, whether that sort of has been in the Arsenal players' minds.
9:25Chris Sutton:But there is something missing in the final third. I mean, they could do with a sacker coming back. I think he's a key player. We forget he was missing at the weekends. I think Martinelli hasn't been in top form this season. Madueke wasn't great at the weekend. Jokeres, I think Jokeres has done all right. But I think the final third would be the worry, certainly from open play. And that's the difference at this moment in time between Arsenal and City. I still think Arsenal are strong defensively. I mean, they're missing Timber at the back. Ben White is coming in and doing okay. Louis Skelly played at the weekend.
10:04Chris Sutton:and he has, I think, maybe his second start in the Premier League. So I think it's just about, and Nedim's been there as well, it's just about holding your nerve, thinking about when you get everybody back, we're a good team. You can't start doubting yourself. I'm not so sure that Arsenal are doubting themselves. The one thing which I think they've got to steer clear from, I mean, they have some daft gimmicky things, don't they, at the training ground. I mean, they've just become a bit of a laughingstock, the thing with the pens and did you see the TikTok video things? I mean, what are they doing?
10:46Chris Sutton:Why bring that into the public domain? They just look foolish. Aren't they two different things, though? The TikTok video was something that they were using to try and build a bit of a vibe or something before the game, whereas the other side of it is just Arteta. I'd love to get Nedim's opinion on that as a former player You've never balanced pens You've never balanced pens
11:07Nedum Onuoha:If you have balanced pens you're using it away from a camera so nobody can see how what you're doing might be construed and I think for those players in fairness to them they're being good sports about everything that they're doing at the club and it's brought them to this point where they could potentially win a league title but there'll be loads of them that'll be thinking this is ridiculous Pickpockets loads of people thinking this is ridiculous Dog called win Listen, a gimmick is only ever a problem if your team's not winning games. Sounds of Anfield on the speakers. If they win the title, or if they'd won three titles in a row, then literally every club in Britain would have a dog.
11:43There's no question about that. Yeah. But the answer, Nadim, surely is results, isn't it? That's the difference. Yeah. All the things we're talking about, if Liam Rossini did them at Chelsea, he would be getting hammered for, like, 100%.
11:57Nedum Onuoha:Listen, Liam Rossini, unfortunately for him, has been getting hammered from the get-go based on some of the things which he said. And I think some of that comes through our, like, generally, I'm saying our, like, the collective subconscious bias possibly against him being in that role, whether that's fair or not. Because there have been other managers who've said more ridiculous things across many years who haven't received the same critique, provided their team has been winning. And people believe that they deserve to be in that position, if you know what I mean. But yeah, the stuff that Arteta does and the way that they run that space, that's very unique to them.
12:24Nedum Onuoha:And those players know it, understand it, and they play into it. they do it and when things are great the atmosphere is great like when things are good at Arsenal the energy around them from their fans and like the players it's like a united front but when it's not going so on everyone's like pointing fingers saying look you're doing this pencil stuff it's ridiculous and so on and so forth I think that's just for me it's part and parcel of the game but overall I've got to say by the way this stuff that Arsenal have just about going through now it's a reminder of how tough it is to actually win a Premier League title you know if there's anyone on the show that maybe has done it I don't know but it's a reminder of like how tough it actually is because for so many at times we just assume it's the easiest thing in the world you've got good players just go and win games but these times of the year this time of the year now when you get in towards March, April time little slip ups can have huge consequences and we've seen that with Arsenal in the past we've seen times in years gone by where Liverpool drop some points and all of a sudden they lose a title on like 95 points it's a very very tough thing to do and I think for this Arsenal team if they get through this spell and they do manage to win it they'll remember these tough times probably more so than the greater times because they feel they deserved it.
13:27I think the style of play is interesting to me as well because Arsenal don't look like they're playing well. And I think that does feed into this narrative that they've kind of... Clunky, I can't remember whether it's Chris or Nadam said clunky, but they do feel like they're kind of grinding through the gears. It's all a little bit... Everything's quite tough. Nothing's coming smooth and easy. And I think when people are watching them, you look at them playing like that and you do think this looks like a team that is struggling to cope with that pressure that Nadam's talking about, that it's starting to burden them.
13:59But I don't know how different that is to the way Arsenal have played for most of the season, to be honest. Arsenal have never been, this season, have never been a particularly thrilling attacking force. They're not really built to do that. They are built to beat everybody 2-0, which is a completely legitimate way to try and win the league. But I guess the problem is, if you're a team that's built to play certain margins, who are trying to exploit certain margins, which is again totally legitimate once those margins become a bit finer you're turning every game into a bit of a toss of the coin and it feels like you know there's a world in which Arsenal nicked that 2-1 on Saturday and we're not having this conversation because maybe Alex Scott balloons his shot and maybe you know a corner gets drilled in an inch lower and someone someone someone's head meets it and they score they're not imposing themselves on games and they haven't mean to be perfectly honest for a little while and as much as their recent form there's no there's no real difference between their form and City's form I think over the last six games City have taken one more point than Arsenal and that they're the team with all this momentum all this freedom and Arsenal are choking realistically that's not what's really happening but I think the look of it is City are suddenly you know Cherky's playing these lovely passes have you seen the tricks he's doing Harden's got a couple of goals again Semenyo's in form Docu's scoring and it feels like they've got all this kind of wondrous belief about them and Arsenal are kind of in their own heads.
15:26But I think a lot of that is because of the way that the two teams are set up to play. One is inherently a bit more cautious than the other.
15:33Chris Sutton:And you guys in the media, you guys in the media, us guys. Us guys, is it correct? No, Chris, despite the fact that Chris has, I think, works for about seven different platforms, Chris does not count as the media, apparently. It's separate.
15:45Nedum Onuoha:Just to put something into perspective, by the way, because I think there's some narrative points that we all get dragged into, which I think at times can be unfair. I just had a quick look at the table, and this is a stats moment, so I apologise to anyone that's not really interested in this. Expected goals for the season. Arsenal ranked second in the league, yeah? Only behind Chelsea. But the difference is, Arsenal's expected goals for the season is like 63.9. This is on understat. But they've only scored 62 goals. So even though it feels like they're quite clunky, and not being creative and so on.
16:15Nedum Onuoha:They're still the second best in terms of opportunity, essentially, throughout this entire season. So the way we feel about them and how we watch them doesn't actually represent the reality of who they are because the team that's in third behind them is City. And I think there are a couple goals behind XGYs. So the two teams are very, very similar, but Arsenal are very deserving of being in the position that they're in. I'm starting to come round to expected goals. Listen, man, in any individual game, you could have an argument across the whole season. Teams will fall in line to where that puts them.
16:51Rory, did you start your book on expected goals by saying, I'm sorry if anyone isn't interested in expected goals? Weirdly, kind of. Did you? Yeah, a little bit. Not quite as blunt as Nathan, but yeah, you have to put the disclaimer in.
17:04Nedum Onuoha:Yeah. Sorry, just one final point on this. I apologise for all those that are still not having it. Like the bottom teams for expected goals throughout the entire season, Wolves, Burnley, Sunderland, Tottenham Forest and West Ham so you know what I mean, there's something to it Can we just talk a bit Chris about that feeling that Arsenal players will be having because I think we can I know football changes and all that but I think we can draw a pretty strong comparison between your own experience at Blackburn here.
17:34Chris Sutton:I don't know about the football changes stuff Steve you're sounding like Rory Smith there. No, no, I thought I was... It was the Premier League era when Blackburn Rovers won the title.
17:46Nedum Onuoha:Was that a compliment or an insult to Roy Smith then? It was very much an insult. It was definitely an insult.
17:52Chris Sutton:It was a different game back then. Well, I tell you what the Premier League wasn't back then. It wasn't relying on long throws and set plays for teams to win. There was actual football played. I'm just used to asking you to compare something from your time and then you shooting me down and saying it's incomparable it's just the way you said it football changes I mean it sounded you know like different you know from the 1500s when Blackburn rose Chris you were playing in hobnail boots it's fine when it was just a pig's bladder what was it I think on a serious note I do I do think it's quite interesting because with my experience because at Blackburn we did start to wilt And I think there was doubt which kicked in.
18:44Chris Sutton:We weren't really, there wasn't a player in the team who had won a Premier League. And we were quite a young team at Blackburn. You know, there wasn't, I think Tony Gale would be the only one over 30. Most of the players would be lower mid-20s. So I suppose, you know, that comparison, and it went to the last day and Manchester United, had they beaten West Ham, would have won the league. We slipped up against Liverpool at Anfield. But I suppose, and I was thinking about this today, the fact that, you know, Arsenal have players who haven't been there and done it and City, I don't know how many City players, I mean, Bernardo Silva certainly, Haaland, I mean, there aren't as, how many City players would have been there and done it?
19:34Chris Sutton:A fair few anyway. I think that experience would certainly help Manchester City and the fact that Pep has been there and done it. And he's playing, I think, chucking out sort of mind games, you know, saying Arsenal are the best team. He's just trying to take the pressure off City and pilot on Arteta. So I do think that that doubt, the longer this goes, and certainly at the weekend, it's a monumental game, that if Arsenal don't get over the line, that is when their nerve will be severely tested. We got over the line. We were nine points clear, six games to go, something like that. So we had a massive drop off.
20:13Chris Sutton:We even lost to Manchester City, who were in the relegation zone at home, a few games to go. And you could imagine the panic setting in there. But we actually had an experienced manager in Kenny Dalglish who had been there and done it and was a calming influence. and this is going to be a real test for Mikel Arteta, isn't he? Because he's still... Do you think he's not a calming influence? No, I'm not saying that, but the fact he's won an FA Cup and he's obviously an outstanding coach. And the way Arsenal have done it this season, in many ways you have to take your hat off to him because he hasn't tried to go toe-to-toe with Manchester City in the way that Pep's team have evolved.
21:00Chris Sutton:He's gone down a more basic and blunt route and it's worked up until now. But, you know, on the face of it, he has to show that composure and that belief in the players. You know, he certainly can't get, shouldn't be getting rattled and wilting. But this is going to be a massive test for Arteta because, you know, we all know the implications. If Arsenal don't win it, there will be doubters about whether Arteta should stay on. And, you know, rightly or wrongly, that will happen. Did you have a call on 606, Chris, saying that they should sack Arteta now and get someone else in? I mean, yeah, in fairness, we're used to getting some wild calls.
21:47Chris Sutton:But that was one. It's quite interesting, that, actually. I think the idea that Arteta, that Arsenal should think about replacing Arteta even if they do finish second, which obviously we don't know. That was 6-0-6, Rory. We need to take that with a pinch of salt. A little bit. But I don't think there would be any serious doubts over Arteta's position in terms of whether Arsenal would sack him. He might think that he doesn't need the stress, I guess, but I think he'd go again. He's still young. if you speak to other coaches they love Arsenal around Europe because they are so well they're a real coaches team, I think they are a genuine masterpiece of coaching they're not great to watch but they are a masterpiece of coaching I think the way that they're organised, the way they're set up other managers really, really admire them, but I wonder now at this stage of the season how much it does come down less to kind of tactical discipline and strategic thinking and more to do with psychology, there's a brilliant stat in the Times this morning from Alison Rudd that Guardiola has played 32 games in April in the Premier League and won 29 of them.
22:56Whereas Arteta's win ratio drops through the season, which I think is probably natural and everyone's does, but it goes down to about, I think it's about 41 % in April. I've got it in April here, Chris. Yeah, so Guardiola's won 30 from 38. That's 79 % in April. Arteta's won 11 from 25. That's 44%. Interesting. I thought that was the kind of stat you wouldn't be massively keen on. Me? Yeah. I think it's interesting that Guardiola... I mean, I do love a percentage. It's a nice... I like a percentage. No, it's not the whole story, but it does kind of suggest something about Guardiola's ability to build to a crescendo.
23:37That's interesting, yeah. And it would suggest that Arteta and Arsenal... And look, it's different. You have to remember the context as well, that Arteta, for most of his Arsenal career, has not been dealing with... He's not been in charge of the dominant force in English football, Guardiola has. Arteta, as much as Arsenal cost an awful lot of money to put together, Guardiola bought James Trafford this season, decided that there was a better goalkeeper out there, so just went and bought him anyway. In January, they went and bought the two best players available on the market, basically at whatever price they wanted.
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24:08They have resources that even Arsenal, who are one of the seven or eight richest clubs in the world, that even Arsenal don't have. so it's not quite a fair fight but it does suggest that Guardiola is better in what Nadam as a semi-American man would call the clutch
24:25Nedum Onuoha:I can't own that in 2026 I can't own that right now I'm not semi-American now's not the time for that what just happened there is Rory wanted to say the clutch but decided he wanted to put it on your shoulder thanks for that Rory it's the sort of Americanism I associate with Nadam But yeah, Guardiola in these really high pressure moments is really good at them. And maybe less so in the Champions League where he tends to overthink it. But Arteta hasn't yet proved it. And that is probably quite significant given how tight it now is.
24:57Chris Sutton:He tends to overthink it in the Champions League. I'm with you on that. So why would he be different then? I don't know. That question I cannot answer. but there have been a lot of Champions League games where Pep Guardiola has done something where you think, that's odd. Isn't it the difference between a one-off game in a knockout versus a string of three or four games consecutively in the Premier League? Well, I mean, you're going to ask me, there was definitely one big Champions League game where he kind of inexplicably dropped Fernandinho. That's one. Is it about the final? It was the final.
25:34Nedum Onuoha:Was that the final against Chelsea? Just to remind everyone of that game, Ilkay Gundogan in the sixth was not the problem for Man City. Listen, I'm not giving you nothing. I'm just putting context. No, I'm just saying that's an historical thing where the further that goes away, that's the only thing that most City fans remember. Right. Even though within the game, it wasn't a factor. Because in that game, what I remember is Rhys James and Ben Chilwell having probably two of the best performances I've seen against Riyad Mahrez and Raheem Sterling. Remember the back three being brilliant for Chelsea, the front three working really well for Chelsea, working hard.
26:06Nedum Onuoha:That's why I'm one of those people, but I cannot sell my stock in Havertz because I've watched him score the winner in the Champions League final from back then with Chelsea. I will always like it. Ditto Mason Mount. Yeah, literally. Made that goal brilliantly. You know what I mean? It's strapped to my head. But yeah, I know what you're trying to say, Rory, but one thing I would say this season, especially doing the Champions League show with you, when Luis Enrique did an interview, I think it was like a month ago, this is similar to like Guardiola. And I think these coaches can sort of put something in their players.
26:34Nedum Onuoha:And the belief is this. Luis Enrique said, and PSG have been very indifferent this season, relatively speaking. They were second in the league for long periods. But I said, now is March. This is the time of the season we get excited for. This is the best part of the season. So whereas other teams at times who are trying to do it for the first time feel anxiety, other teams, through the belief of their managers and the way they set them up and so on, they love playing with that extra pressure. I'm sure Luis Enrique, Guardiola and others would probably just like forego all that first bit of the season.
27:06Nedum Onuoha:Do you know where like, oh, this is good, this is bad, all these overreactions. To get to the business end of the season knowing that it's the chase for perfection results-wise. And if you do manage to do this, you get the chance to lift titles. And I think when they can get that into their players, it becomes better as opposed to a manager. I'm not saying this is what Arteta is, but it's almost like from the outside at least, it looks like he's firefighting instead of telling the players how exciting it is to be involved in what is an incredible opportunity to win a title. In a literal sense as well.
27:34Like he looks like he's firefighting sometimes on the touchline.
27:37Nedum Onuoha:Yeah, he does. But the touchline stuff, it's 90 minutes of antics, isn't it? I think how they are behind the scenes is more important to me personally. This is very much a kind of outsider-y football view, but it strikes me as logical that it would be much harder for a team that has not won a title in this case for 21 years to win a title in a nip and tuck race than it is for a team who have won six of the last eight, I think. You know, City are not playing with that historical pressure. They know, those players know, that if they fall short this year, they'll be back again. They know that most of them, Chris is right, there's been a lot of churn in that squad.
28:16So Semenyo, Gaye, there's various others that have never won a league title. But there's also Ruben Diaz and John Stones and there's all these people around who've won loads. they're not playing they're playing with a comfort and a confidence as they have been exposed to this pressure before so that's built up their resistance to it they know what it's like to get over the line so they will be going in i think the mindset must be slightly different of i remember this from last year or from two years ago whatever it might be whereas all arsenal will see is if we don't get it this time it's another year gone by we're all another year older they will get stronger it's 22 years instead of 21.
28:50Nah. I think that must have, the type of pressure
28:54Nedum Onuoha:those two teams are under is different. I think that point itself is like a perfectly valid one. But then there are players who are playing for Arsenal who've only been there this season. There are players for Arsenal who haven't been tracking the club for the last 21 years. And I always used to find this when, for example, it'd be like a tournament in England playing against Germany and someone says, oh, England haven't beaten Germany in 30 years. And you're saying that to like 21-year-olds. Like, why does it matter to them? All they're doing is trying to achieve the goal that's in front of them.
29:19Nedum Onuoha:So I understand Arsenal's history from that standpoint. But as Zubimendi, for example, walks out at the Etihad on the weekend, he's not thinking about the Invincible seasons in 2004. But the fans are. But what's that got to do with the performance on the pitch from the players? Which is a good question. But isn't the point there, and this has kind of been discussed a little bit, that maybe how the Emirates is feeling and sounding, there could be a bit of a vicious circle going on between that and what they're seeing on the pitch. I'll be honest with you. So I retired in 2020. Since then, from 21 to this point, I've been covering media and I've been lucky enough to see my team, Man City, win four titles.
29:54Nedum Onuoha:And I've been to the Etihad Stadium in the back half of the season and there's just as much anxiety in that stadium when a game is at nil-nil as you'll find anywhere else in the country. So after a result, we almost look back and say, oh, it was comfortable, it was this, it was that. I've seen City play really well and fans be really anxious because they know that at this time of the year, one slip, one mistake, one red card, one mischance could completely destroy your team's hopes for the season. So the City fans, even though they've been very fortunate to see all those wins, they're not sitting comfortably thinking everything's great, this is definitely going to work out.
30:27Nedum Onuoha:But they do feel like that when it gets to the end, and they almost like in some ways rewrite the history of that moment.
30:32Chris Sutton:I agree with that. But I would also say, and Rory said earlier, that you were talking about Arteta and next season, and you think that he'll be back from the club hierarchy. hockey but I do think he has a problem if he doesn't go over the line in the Premier League or the Champions League I think that I think it changes the landscape in the way that Arsenal fans will view him because he's been there long enough and I think if you can imagine Arsenal fans at the start of next season if they don't win a you know a league title or the Champions League and things don't go well at the start of next season they will be on him that you know where where at the start of every other season, I think they would have cut him some slack.
31:12Chris Sutton:They would have backed him. But because of the nature and the optics of whether we like it or not, or whether we believe it or not, and I don't think we do, you know, I don't think Arsenal have bottled it. I just, you know, if they do end up losing, I just think City are a good side. We've talked about all the reasons why City are a good side and can reel them in because of Pep's experience, there were players in there who have been there and done it, and they have that quality. But the Arsenal fans will view it differently. And if he doesn't have the support of the Arsenal fans, then that's when a decision will need to be made.
31:45Chris Sutton:So I do think it's make or break for him in terms of they have to win either Premier League or Champions League, or I think he'll be a goner. I thought it was interesting and slightly weird that they booed them off the pitch, which hints at what Chris is talking about. my guess would be that whether they win the title or the Champions League or not Arteta probably can't play this way next season I think the fans patience for it is not limitless as much as Arsenal fans if they please don't clip this up for socials if it does get clipped up for socials I will get shouted out by lots of Arsenal fans who will say no no no it's nonsense it's an agenda everyone hates Arsenal they are not an especially beautiful team and that does not matter if you win the title nobody cares it's justified.
32:31I think most of those fans at the Emirates understand that they have seen much better football than that from Arsenal teams relatively recently and from Mikel Arteta's Arsenal teams and that they have become a very kind of deliberate, programmed, formatted team. And I'm pretty sure that if it doesn't, if they win the title, that's fine. Everything's justified. If they don't, I think there will be an expectation that he will maybe allow them to be a bit more expansive next season. Because at some point you can win and bore a team, but if you don't bore the fans, you have to win. That's kind of the deal.
33:11I have a question on that, actually, Chris. The notion of being booed off. Because I think every team gets booed off. Why are you coming to me? Why are you coming to me on this? Because you're the most natural booer. You've tried to boo me off already twice tonight. no I think every team gets booed off the number of times I hear somebody say oh as if those fans are booing them off after they've done X, Y and Z this season I do think that is just a natural thing like I hear what Rory's saying but I think there is an argument that if Arsenal had played really well or if Arsenal had played pretty football and lost that game they would still have been booed off because they'd lost the game and there is an understanding and a demand from the home fans that they win pretty much every game now and I think once you're used to something as a fan and you expect it and if you don't get it, people will boo.
33:59Chris Sutton:Yeah, but I don't get the booing. Arsenal are the top of the Premier League. Good chance of, I think, PSG will win the Champions League but they've been good in the Champions League. I think, I just don't see the upside of it and I don't know if there are players low on confidence in the Arsenal team. I don't think that that helps in any way, shape or form. You know, teams who win the title and fans always talk about togetherness and the club being one. So any split like that, and I take your point on fans boo all the time nowadays, but it doesn't make it right. Yeah, I think you shouldn't be booing your team if they're top of the table.
34:46I think that's... Depends how many people are doing it, though. That's the difficulty. You know when you hear a full-time whistle and someone will say, there are boos at full time. That will definitely be true and audible, but it doesn't take that many people to make it audible, if that makes sense. No, that's true. It's a proportion. It wasn't 60 ,000 that the Emirates booing, but the fact that anyone was booing, I think, is significant. All right. Last thing on this, because I think it's a nice way to finish the chat. And Chris already kind of gave an opinion on this earlier, but I do think it's really pertinent to ask all of you.
35:15Whose position would you rather be in now? With Sunday in mind, with the running in mind, would you rather be Manchester City six points back but with the game in hand and Arsenal to come at home at what feels like a good time or Arsenal with the lead near them?
35:30Nedum Onuoha:I'd rather be Arsenal with the lead. I think the danger that we have here is, in my opinion, assuming that City are just going to win that game against Crystal Palace which is their game in hand. Whenever you start putting points on the board which you haven't earned yet I think that's a very dangerous position to be in and Arsenal have made it this far. They can finish the season on 88 points if they win their last six games. to see the end being that close and know that you've built a robust style of football throughout the season to where it's not necessarily about the glamour of it all. I think they can find a way to be dogged to get to the end.
36:01Nedum Onuoha:It's not to say that they will do it, but I'd rather be the team at the top of the table right now. Rory? All those same reasons, plus City have to win on Sunday, Arsenal can draw, which I think means that, yeah, their position is the stronger one. But only just, it is tight. because it is, if City win all of their games and score three more goals than Arsenal, then they are champions.
36:25Chris Sutton:You've covered all bases there. I'm just saying, I'd rather be Arsenal, but it is a close one. If City win, you immediately change though, right? Because then it could come down to goal difference now.
36:38Nedum Onuoha:Would it not be a goal difference thing if City were to win? Well, only if they then both win out from there, yeah. That's possible, is it not? Yeah, no, it is possible. That's what I mean. That's the interesting thing as well. if City even do win on Sunday there's no guarantee and I think the thing that would be in their favour is not this, this is wrong to assume but I think Arsenal will get through against Sports in Lisbon midweek so they'll have another two Champions League ties to put in the mix with their other games whereas for City they've got one weekend between the end of the season at Wembley for that semi-final so that would probably favour them
37:10Chris Sutton:I do love the if game
37:12Nedum Onuoha:I really enjoy it
37:13Chris Sutton:and who would you rather be? would you rather be the team in front or in second right now? Well, it's a bit more complicated than that, isn't it? Not really. Yes, it is though, isn't it? No, not really. I mean, you know, Arsenal top for a reason. You'd much rather be Arsenal right now. If they lose 6-0 at the weekend, then I'd rather be City.
37:47New teams. New rules. A new era. Formula One returns. The engines are revving. People are getting excited. Hear every race live on BBC Sounds. It's all eyes to the lights. Hands for the floor.
38:09Nedum Onuoha:On 5 Live Sports. This is the Monday Night Club with Steve Crossman. On the Football Daily Podcast. We're going to talk Spurs now. No new manager bounce thus far for Roberto De Zerbi. One game, one defeat. Tottenham beat him 1-0 at Sunderland in his first game in charge. West Ham's win over Wolves on Friday meant that Spurs ended the day in the bottom three for the first time since August 2015. But that was when they lost on an opening day, so that doesn't really count. Anyway, here's to Zerbi following that defeat.
38:42Chris Sutton:I can do a big brother, a father. They don't need a coach. They don't need to improve football. They don't need to play better, OK? They can play better and they will play better when we will reach a different level of confidence of ourselves. These things are crucial for us in this moment. A big job, a hard job in just a few short weeks this season, but are you really looking forward to the challenge? Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. I'm sure if we are able to win a game, everything goes to change. Interesting. All right, so that's Roberto De Zerbi with Guy Morbury. So that, Nadiem, was his Match the Day interview.
39:40That line, which is a fascinating line, I can be a big brother or a father, they don't need a coach. So he said that on Match the Day, also said it on Five Live, also said it on BBC Radio London. So that's his message.
39:50Nedum Onuoha:And I think in some ways it is fair because those players are such, I think he acknowledges that they are good players, but having significant confidence issues, for example, not necessarily believing in the projects or whatever the coach wants them to believe in. And in some ways, it's understandable. It's been 14 league games without a win. It's obscene. The last league win they had was the 28th of December in 2025. I'm one of those people, I'll be honest. I continue to believe Spurs will stay up. But as every game passes, I'm like, well, why do I believe that? You know what I mean? It's like, oh, they'll win this weekend, they'll be fine.
40:24Nedum Onuoha:They'll win this weekend, it'll be fine. And I've said this for like three months now. And the performance on the weekend, it was going to be a tough game going away to Sunderland, who have a pretty good home record as such. But I think De Zerbe's right. And that's so interesting because as I think about De Zerbe as a coach, like it's his coaching ability that sets him apart. I didn't know it was going to be stuff about him just providing confidence for those players. That would be the difference. Because I thought maybe he could present them with a style of play which they can buy into. they can believe in go forward onto the pitch with like extra confidence but I think in some ways it's a good like case study about it doesn't matter how good you are as a player when the confidence is down football can be very very tough and that's I say that's 14 games in 105 days without a league win in the seasons where you were fighting relegation come to me first why don't you go on would you have would it have been better to have somebody who was coach first coach second coach last or that idea of somebody who is more fatherly first where's he cut off uh or father or do you know what i mean yeah i think it depends like the reason for your team being in the position that they're in like if there are real tactical issues as such then as a consequence you'd want somebody to come in and give the team a plan like we've seen that historically like say Leicester City staying up in 2014, 2015.
41:46Nedum Onuoha:I think they went to like a back three or something and that helped them sort of propel themselves forward to finish maybe like 14th in that season. But sometimes it is like, you know, how can you increase the mood? How can you make the players sort of believe in themselves a bit more, believe in, as I say, sometimes as well, it's addition through subtraction. And with all due respect to Hugo Tudor, I don't think he necessarily got the place to be any better throughout his tenure there. And if anything, it felt like it went the other way. so yeah I think for me personally I always like to go on the pitch knowing that we had a plan which people believed in because then when he when things were tough people could always revert back to the same thing you know the same belief and understanding about how to get out of the situation but I think he's seen the talent that they have knowing that realistically they shouldn't be that low down in the table and as a consequence yeah maybe it's just a case of continuing to have that belief but it's very tough to do that when you're a new face and some of those players have really suffered mentally throughout this season so far.
42:42I wondered, Chris, whether what Naden was saying there around Igor Tudor is pertinent because there would be an argument going in there after what's happened just be as opposite to the last guy as possible and Igor Tudor was not a father or a brother to those players.
42:59Chris Sutton:No, I think that's a great point. I mean, Igor Tudor hit him with the stick, didn't he? I mean, was it the second game? wasn't at Fulham where, I mean, I couldn't believe it. He filleted every department of the team and told them that they were useless. And, you know, he did that publicly. How are the players going to feel? And I think this is fascinating, actually, the way Deserby's gone about it, because I don't know the way you view Deserby. I don't know. But, you know, you're thinking, as Adam said, a pure coach. That's what he is. but it's not, you know, he said the team don't need to be coached.
43:40Chris Sutton:And that means that they're that low on confidence. They're not ready for him in a short space of time to go in and play that deserve-y brand of football. So it's just, I mean, it's just about getting them over the line. But it's, I wouldn't describe it as, I think he's doing the right thing, But it's pathetic, really, that, you know, you have a team, such a talented team, who have such little belief. I mean, I just, I looked at the Tottenham bench at the weekend. I mean, if you look at the players on the bench, Simmonds, Danso, Dragusin, Polinia, Basu, Mattel, Saar. I mean, that's, you know, that's an expensive bench, that is.
44:27Chris Sutton:And, you know, you look at the first team. How Tottenham are in this position. I mean, it's just absolutely incredible. I think that the players have to take a great deal of responsibility. But it's interesting that in the early days, it's just, you know, his early days, it's just about trying to lift them, keep them on side, cajole them into having that belief where they can just get over the line. And then I'm sure if Tottenham do stay up, it'll be start of next season, him doing what he did at Brighton. Brighton because I think we touched on this last week. Remember what Lewis Dunk said when he first went in at Brighton?
45:07Chris Sutton:It was carnage and the players were baffled for the first couple of weeks. So, you know, he's gone in, he's put his coaching principles aside and just, you know, the old pat on the back to try and keep them up. I would have thought that that impact would have been minimised a little bit by the fact that the Spurs players will have known what was coming. They will know what is coming when he goes fully to Zerbi because we've seen his football in the Premier League before, whereas when he went to Brighton, he would have been a relatively unknown quantity. He obviously coached in Italy and he'd done well at Shakhtar, but it is just not the case that all those Brighton players would have been watching Shakhtar Donetsk games to see what the new manager was like.
45:51He would have been a surprise. It won't have worked like that at Spurs. But I agree with Chris. I think it's really interesting that he's chosen to approach it very much as, basically as the type of Italian manager that he stands in opposition to, the kind of allegory character who goes in and says, this is what these players need, this is what they can do, and this is what they are good at. We are going to do that as well as we can. That is now our plan, rather than the Deserbi approach, which is much more modelled on Guardiola and is very kind of, here's my idea, we're going to do this, this is all that matters.
46:21He's only taken two staff members in with him, which for an Italian coach, he will feel naked and alone because they like to have several thousand people around them who know exactly catering to their every need. He clearly has realised he's taken a firefighter approach to the first seven weeks, which was, that was the first big test. Like, does he think, is he such an ideologue that he thinks that he has to play his way even in these really extreme circumstances? And he obviously doesn't. He's obviously prepared to be much, much more pragmatic. But I guess the limitation is not... It's the opposite of Amorim when he went in at Man United, isn't it?
46:59Yeah, exactly. He's done the reverse Amorim. He said, I'll put this on hold until the summer. Let's stay up and then we can do the fancy playing out from the back stuff. I think there's a risk there that you end up getting caught between two stools or even trying to coach a type of football that he's not that... That if he doesn't really believe in, maybe the way he coaches it isn't that kind of effective. but the main thing is Spurs have had an injury crisis for about two years there's a core of players there who will be exhausted physically and the confidence must be through the floor and in those circumstances I don't really know what you can do other than try and convince the players that they're good enough to win the three matches they probably need to win to have a chance of staying up
47:41Nedum Onuoha:Yeah I think it's really interesting as well with De Zerbi listening to a manager at the start versus a manager at the end can be so significant because he says oh you know they need the father figure they need the brother and then like two three games in they need the stepfather let them know that this is unacceptable this will not be done in my house this way because the results you know they're hugely important if he remains relaxed it shows that he's going to be there next season regardless but if it's a case of you know this is like absolutely everything you see a change in tone and something I would kind of push back against a little bit is yes we know how Deservey's teams play but we don't know the journey for those teams to get there like I've had an Italian manager in the past who would have you doing team shape every single day of the week like days off disappear an hour of this session is going to be walking through these things and I think for some players that can like break morale as such whereas there could be some whereby you learn it through lots of things that keep you thinking and so on so those players they've seen how say Brighton have played they might have seen how Marseille have played you know Shakhtar and so on but seeing the Real Deserby come out at some point that could be a shock to some people and whether that comes now or next season, it's going to be interesting.
48:50Just seeing Sammy Mockbell, senior football correspondent, is saying that Christian Romero is going to miss the rest of the season with that knee injury that he picked up. You could kind of see how upset he was. There was that collision with Antonin Kinski, which is obviously what has caused it. So, I mean, stating the bleeding obvious here, I know, Chris, but that is a massive blow just when they didn't need it.
49:10Chris Sutton:Yeah, although he's had a fair bit of criticism this season, hasn't he? Romero will be interesting won't at the end of the season if they do go down there'll be a lot of players who want that I do think it is fascinating the more you think about the Deserby appointment and the way that he's talked they've brought in a or his style is Mr. Motivator isn't it? that's all it is younger audiences Chris one for the kids there Joe Wicks could you have said that? is he really that motivational Joe Wicks I'd never found him that motivational but there you go yeah it's just sort of you know why didn't he wait until the end of the season to what sorry well just wait and see because if he's not he's basically saying he's not what he said he said in that interview that he's not coaching the team you know he's there just to just to try and lift the players I mean, it's, you know, on the face of things, it's a strange appointment.
50:17Maybe the five-year deal, sort of£12 million a year,
50:21Chris Sutton:sort of hurried him along a little bit to sign that. But it does seem odd that they've got a guy in who's a great coach, who's not going to coach and is in there just to lift the players. Isn't that just the timing, Chris? Isn't there an argument that it's the wrong time to be trying to coach them his football? Surely what he means is he's not taking sessions where he is lambasting them for not being able to grasp his concepts rather than he's not letting them train. There will be changes in the way Spurs play over the next six games. I just think he means that he's going to take it more slowly than we would expect of someone who has a reputation as an idealistic firebrand.
51:03Chris Sutton:Yeah, and that's hard to judge the way he's going about it, but that means that he probably is doing something different to what he has done at his previous clubs, which I don't know whether that's dangerous or not. All right, that's it for this episode of the Monday Night Club. Big thank you to Chris, Rory and to Nadam. Up next on the Football Daily, Champions League debrief with Kelly Cates after Liverpool's quarter-final second leg against Paris Saint-Germain. As always, thank you so much for listening.
51:44Hello, I'm Tyler West. And I'm Alfie Watts. And this is The Detour, the official companion podcast to race across the world. This is the post-episode checkpoint where you'll hear the latest chat around each episode from us and our race superfan special guests. Plus, I'll be joined each week by resident travel expert, Alfie. That's you, man.
52:03Chris Sutton:I'll be revealing my optimal way to travel through each leg, including visits to all of those unmissable detours along the way. And we'll also have some not-seen-anywhere-else exclusive content at the end of every episode. Cannot wait. The detour will land straight after each episode of Race Across the World. You can watch on iPlayer or listen on Sounds, where you'll also find extra bonus content. We'll see you then.
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From the publisher
Steve Crossman hosts this week's Monday Night Club alongside Chris Sutton, Rory Smith and Nedum Onuoha.
With a game in hand and six points to make up, can Manchester City catch Arsenal? The team discuss the role that mentality plays in a title race, how fan nervousness might be affecting Arsenal on the pitch, and what Arteta's side seem to be lacking from open-play. Is it fair to say Arsenal are 'bottling' it? On the other hand, a free-flowing Manchester City are relishing the chase, and with Arsenal visiting the Etihad this Sunday, could that result prove to be a decider?
Then, the panel react to Spurs losing their first match under new head coach, Roberto De Zerbi. With Tottenham now in the relegation zone for the first time since 2015, and two points from safety, can "big brother" De Zerbi save the club?
Timecodes: 01:12 Is it fair to say that Arsenal are 'bottling' it? 12:13 Do Arsenal really have a style-of-play problem? 20:24 Arsenal a "masterpiece of coaching", but is it time now for psychology? 28:17 Are the fans affecting the players, & should they have booed the team off? 37:07 A first loss for "big brother" De Zerbi as Spurs manager; can he save them?
