MNC: Brentford, Brighton & the silent treatment

20:31And some of the players that you mentioned there, these were players who were in and around their championship spell as well. So they almost had those players in that position, in that league, and they came up and they did well for them. And they ended up moving, as opposed to the recruitment from the side of, say, Brighton, where the team's in the Premier League. It's their third or fourth manager in the Premier League. And these are the players they want to bring in. And I think there's another perspective here, which we don't really cover as such, I don't think, as much in the media, is the players will sign for Brighton, for example, because it's a good football club.

21:01But there's probably a cell in there, two agents and two players, that we will develop you and then you will go to some of the biggest clubs in and around Europe and the world and so on. So when you're a player that knows you get a chance to play in the Premier League, to be paid well to do it and to play for a team, who is now very much like a team who sees an established upper top half of the table, how do you lose? We've mentioned two players, Kuo and so on, who've been on loan for like two, three years. The contracts, it doesn't matter. You're going to play football, you know, and you're going to have the backdrop of knowing that if it doesn't work out at Brighton, you can go on loan somewhere else, go on loan somewhere else.

21:37Because you're young, you've got time. We'll give you time. but there's something about each player that gets brought in that suits the way that they want to play and in some ways I get a bit of jealousy here because when I was playing, I was at QPR QPR in terms of size is no different you could argue possibly bigger than Brentford but the way that Brentford have run, operated their club with their recruitment, their idea of like staying true to who they are I look back at my time at say QPR and in the dressing room we had say the likes of Jamie, Mikey, Clint Hills, people, Sean Darius coming up through the Football League and sitting next to them was Julius Azar who's just been at Benfica.

22:13Like, that's, I don't know. There was a lot of very, very short-term thinking at that time. You know, maybe that's the reason beside me. You never know. But there was a lot of short-term thinking where some of these clubs, they're trying to remain who they are whilst also being competitive in the league as well.

22:28Nedum Onuoha:On that, and I know you're maybe not saying this in so many words, but the discussion that lots of people will have and have had is, well, hang on a minute. Why do they get these players when they get these players and why aren't the so-called top six in for these players at the same time? But do you actually think if they signed for a top six team rather than, let's just do Brighton here rather than lumping them in with Brentford, you'd actually be signing a different player? Glad Murray sat where you were on Saturday and said, there's a patience thing. so you're allowed to develop more at brighton because there's a general patience around club and supporter base that you're not you don't necessarily have to be a world beater from the moment you start and your point is you will get a move if you succeed here as in there's a carrot there and you haven't you haven't fully made it yet whereas so and i'm not singling players out any particular of the elite six if you go at 20 there there's a danger of you've made it Yeah, I think there is a danger of that.

23:35But then the type of player going to some of those bigger clubs at 20, they're a big deal, if you know what I mean. Some of the players that say Brighton and others are signing, they've got the potential to be. Even look at the nature of the clubs we're talking about that they're being signed from, like AIK, this Vienna team, and so on and so forth. That isn't for the most part where the clubs more towards the top of the league will be looking for players. Maybe because it's a political thing, you can't sign this talent from Austria-Vienna because clearly that's not going to be the one that's taking you to the promised land.

24:04But they're also young enough to where there's a pressure that comes with, if we just talk about the team across the road, any person that signs for Manchester United in this era is under huge pressure to get them back to where they were 10, 15 years ago. And if it doesn't work out and it seems like you're a long-term thing, then you'll just be out of the football club because the chances are there might be a new manager and new policy and so on. Whereas with these other places, you are part of a project that's been going on for a while now. so you understand the club's identity. And at times, to be fair, with Brighton, with Brentford, you could say with Bournemouth, has their identity really changed in the last three or four years regardless of whoever's been in charge?

24:39And for me, the answer is probably not. So you know what you're signing up for.

24:43Chris Sutton:It's also great, the sort of outlier for Brighton, getting Pascal Gross back and the form he is in. I mean, it's, you know, totally, I'm not saying it's against the grain of what they've, you know, what they've ever done. But just for him to come back and influence, he's 35 now. I mean, amazing player he has been, you know, well, this season, but the last couple of games, just absolutely incredible. So it's not, so, you know, they have a structure, but they will, you know, occasionally go against that. It's what works for them.

25:16Nedum Onuoha:If I said to you then, Chris, with both these clubs, and I'll bring them back together here, even though, as Rory points out, there are different models. what if I said to you could they reach the next level what would you think the next level for

25:32Chris Sutton:those two clubs is and how would you answer it that's could they reach the next level well yeah the the next level would be yeah I think finishing in and around Champions League football every season wouldn't it I mean they're not you know they aren't they aren't massive football clubs but they are clubs which have grown well and grown strong. And when you look at the mess of the clubs we associate and say our big clubs are making of at this moment in time, there's no reason the consistency Brighton have shown in the last couple of seasons, you know, two eighth place finishers, Brentford haven't been quite as consistent.

26:13Chris Sutton:But you'd have to say, you'd have to say, why not? If something is working and the model is working for both, But then, yeah, I mean, look, it's hard to actually say that they'll be, you know, I mean, at the moment, third and fourth in the Premier League. They're not going to finish third and fourth in the Premier League. Why aren't they? That's been the whole point of this last half hour. Yeah, I know, but it's just, you know. Glad you didn't say that at six minutes past. Well, I will say, I think Brighton have a far better chance than Brentford do. But then, you know, Europe may sort of drag them down a little bit.

26:48Chris Sutton:But just I think Brighton's squad is, you know, is deeper. This is the Monday Night Club with Mark Chapman. On the Football Daily Podcast.

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28:16And just when tennis fans were licking their lips at the prospect of a rivalry that would push the sport to new heights, one of the strangest and most shocking sporting crimes brought it to a grinding halt. Monica Seles has been stabbed by a spectator. This man stole her story from her. Sports' strangest crimes. Tennis' darkest hour. Listen on BBC Sounds This is the Monday Night Club with Mark Chapman On the Football Daily Podcast

28:52We're going to talk

28:53Nedum Onuoha:internationalism in a minute I just want to do one thing on De Zerbe and how he is after a defeat and what Chris never lost a game of football So come to me first I've got some experience What you wanted from a manager after a defeat because De Zerbe didn't talk to the players after, he said he didn't talk to them after the defeat against Aston Villa, but then went back and sort of criticised them in his post-match interviews. Chris, I don't know if you'd agree with this, but I was never really surprised by anything a manager would say after a game because as a player, you know how a game has gone for the most part, especially based on what the plan was for the week, how we sort of did it.

29:37I think sometimes people forget that players can also think for themselves. Like you, after a game, you've got your own thoughts about how you've played, how the team's done it, the disappointment of the result, how you've lost, why you've lost. Was it a bad decision? Was it a good performance? Was it a bad performance? All these things. And then when I'm coming in and speaking, most of the time, it just ends it with, like, get your stuff. We've got training tomorrow. We're going to try and work on the next thing, blah, blah, blah. So does Erby not speaking? I don't think it's that big a deal for most of the experienced players in there because that's a message in itself.

30:09But the players know. The players will know. I think I'm more so concerned when some managers try and speak to their players through media and not speak to them directly because the media stuff. I don't know, man. Like I've had some managers in my time. I'll name two. OK, I'll name two. Go on. Yeah, so first one that had the media in the palm of his hands was Roberto Mancini.

30:34Nedum Onuoha:Yeah. He could do no wrong in the media. And the other one for a spell was actually Harry Redknapp to where, like, for a spell at QPR, if we won, anyone, any player speaking to the press afterwards would have to talk about how it's great to have Harry as a manager. This is especially in the championship. And if we lost, it's because us as players, we weren't good enough. And they'd be asking Harry, what can you do about this? And then that's when he gets a little bit dicey, if you know what I mean. But yeah, in terms of what manager says, I think the more games you play, the more you understand for yourself what went right, what went wrong.

31:09And yeah, unless the manager throws a curveball, what they say realistically doesn't matter because the game's been, you know, he can shout at people, go on.

31:16Chris Sutton:Do you think though Nedim, the fact he doesn't speak, which is fine. He's probably exhausted everything in the first five games anyway. He's probably said everything which he can say. I mean, he's been very critical publicly, but the fact he doesn't say anything, Nedim, and then goes to the press and other media and spills his guts and is really quite derogatory. I think that that wouldn't make him the most popular guy. I think he's got to get that out if he's going to give that message out in public. Yeah, I think so. But again, most of these relationships, as you know, are going to be done away from the cameras and away from the microphones.

32:00Like, what was he like on the Monday when they go into training again? Is he carrying some of that with him? Like, again, I've had some, maybe you have as well, I've had some managers who say some despicable things on the training ground. genuinely despicable about players about collectives about teams everything and in some ways that probably goes further than anything they've sort of said in the media because a lot of time with media especially these days and De Zerbe is almost the exact opposite of this they say nothing because the real messages they'll give to the players you know away from the limelight but yeah you don't I also think you don't necessarily need to like your manager you just have to understand what they want and do the best that you can and

32:37Nedum Onuoha:be respected by your manager no no I don't think so I think for me personally, the utopia is to have a manager who you really like and he really likes you and you work really well together. But how many players up and down the land are realistically having that experience? The answer is probably not many whatsoever. So then it comes down to your level of professionalism, understanding what's required and playing for yourself and your teammates. If the manager likes it, the manager likes it.

33:03Chris Sutton:But you must have wanted to be respected. yeah but the respect comes in him in the in the manager essentially picking you to a certain extent and if you basically you don't want to be the person that's treated differently but for the wrong reasons like i didn't like to be treated differently for a positive reason either yeah i just wanted to be part of the group as such but the manager the manager i think for me with most of them that i've had i didn't really have a true relationship with them i just wanted to play and if i was playing and we were winning everything was great the issues when you're now being taken out of the team or you're being cast as this, that and the other.

33:40And again, to give you a super specific example, since this is the Trauma Monday show, there was a point with...

33:47Nedum Onuoha:I mean, I don't want that name to catch up. Yeah, I hope it doesn't. I'm happy with overreaction Monday. So this is a genuine story. And like we were at QPR, Harry Redknapp, we got knocked out of the FA Cup in the third round. Shock, horror. I played about eight cup games in seven years for QPR. but yeah we got knocked out in the third round so we had a trip to Dubai a warm weather training trip and Harry doesn't like it when people um drink here and I don't drink anyway and I don't really go out or anything like that so I'm just going over there do what I need to do then go then go home a few days later however I was in the exception so there were lots of people who were doing just that and there was one training session in particular which I'll never ever forget it's the worst training session I've ever seen because half the people couldn't see straight and there was one person in particular I won't name him but anyone that played with me at the time they know who I'm talking about you could pass him a ball and he'd miss it by like two feet and Harry was getting really worked up about this and at the time I didn't really have any like true relationship with him and he started having shouting at me somebody who hadn't been out somebody who was just doing a training session and I pushed back

34:54Chris Sutton:Were you missing the ball by two yards as well? Listen, I was when I passed it to him so I was like just control the ball you know what I mean misplaced passes when somebody can't see it but Harry started having a go at me so I pushed back and I said you're frustrated because other people have done what you didn't want them to do yeah and managers overall don't like it when you talk back to them and in that moment I felt it was justified because I'm not going to be the villain here because I've not done anything wrong

35:17Nedum Onuoha:you're sober from then he did not say a word to me for two months I didn't play a game for two months not a word like we could be in a lift together like they're awkward anyway nothing yeah until we were playing against Fulham in a derby and we were having a I was on the bench, lo and behold. And they were having a terrible time. And Harry, in the first half, was like 3-0. Turned halfway through the first half, turned to me and says, go get ready, I need you. I need you. He's not said a word to me for two months. Oh, God. Good Lord. Good Lord. That was a, I'm glad to be able to speak this story to the nation.

35:51Obviously, everyone's had different experiences with Harry, but I'm not over it now. Does it help you getting that off your chest, Ned? Does that make you go back? Yeah, listen, I know what the clip's going to be. So, yeah, that's fine.

36:01Chris Sutton:But then from Harry's side, I'm not sticking up for him, the fact that you called him out in front of the group. Listen, most people couldn't even hear what he was saying. That's the issue. You've got to stand up for yourself, though, Chris. You have, but you can... I'm not saying Nedim was wrong in what he did, but you've also got to flip that and think in Harry's situation, if other people heard that, then the manager can't be talked back to.

36:32Nedum Onuoha:Hang on, you've never told a manager that they're wrong?

36:37Chris Sutton:Many times, but I've gone into their office to tell them that they were wrong. My issue with this was the sense of injustice. And this talking about thing actually happened twice because it sounds like I'm really rude and whatever now, but it's not because why am I being shouted out for going out when I've not been out? That's fair enough, yeah. Yeah, the other time, which I've learned, because as I got older, I didn't speak to any manager about anything ever. You could call me whatever they want. Like, yes, sir. Yes, sir. Yeah, off we go. Do you do it? By the end, yeah. So it was at City now.

37:08And we were playing. This is, to be fair, this is where my City career just disappeared completely. This is with my GD in charge. And we were playing on like a Super Sunday or something. It was away to Burnley. And we happened to be, I think it was either 4 or 5 nil up at halftime. but just before halftime there was a free kick and everybody was in the right spot except for one person. I won't name the person but it wasn't me. Cross came in. Cross came in. They had a shot. It went wide. So it's like four or five not at halftime away from home. This is like heaven. In terms of football this is heaven.

37:41This does not happen. Walked and everybody's bouncing and it's like yeah vibes, vibes, vibes. And Mancini says what were you doing on the set piece at the end? I was like excuse me? He says what were you doing at the set piece at the end? You were in the wrong position. I was like no I wasn't that's exactly what he told me to be he says yes you were you need to make sure you look on that board this that and the other and he was angry at half time so I said well I was in the right position from that point he calmed down pulled me to the side and said don't you ever speak back to me again and I played for City twice more in the next year and a half that was it

38:10Nedum Onuoha:again for standing up for yourself yeah because do you know what I'll give a shout out to him it was Craig Bellamy he was in the wrong position I love you Craig I love you mate but he was in the wrong position but it was about it was me getting hammered at halftime. I was like, hold on a second. Like, what's going on? Like I say, from then, I was cooked. He was not having me a job. Do you think that was just, he didn't want to criticise Bellamy or do you think it was genuinely, genuinely he thought you were the one who was in the wrong place? Possibly both because you could link it in some ways to the Harry Redknapp situation.

38:38It's not to say that those two managers hadn't had like great relationships with people across all the years and so on and so forth. But in those two instances, I hadn't been going out in Dubai and I wasn't in the wrong position from this free kick. But because I don't really offer any pushback and I'd just train. All of a sudden, I'm like, no, that's not right.

38:54Nedum Onuoha:Were you ever considered one of the members of a squad, a bit like Guardiola kept doing with Kyle Walker, in you're going to be my lightning rod to hammer to get a message across to everybody else? Do you buy into that? Well, that was Mikel Antonio, wasn't it? Do you remember at West Ham with David Moyes? He said that's what would happen. Those two would always have this thing. But I wouldn't speak out against managers. I never did that. Never, ever, ever did that. I'd just train. But all of a sudden, I'm like, excuse me? am I supposed to say okay yeah sorry sorry Gaffer sorry for being in the right position I will take that blame but yeah I spoke up in those two instances probably the only two instances in my career and as a consequence I got a silent treatment and got booted out of a football club did you ever did you ever try and stop the silent treatment did you ever try no no listen mate I love it I loved it I love the silent if that's who you want to be I'm ready for it I will hold a grace to the day that I die don't worry about it me too Nedim Nedim

39:48Chris Sutton:would you Would you do things differently if you relive those two instances again based on what happened? Well, it's based on understanding the two managers. Because with Roberto, I didn't understand that's who he was at that time. And with Harry, I still think it's unjust and I think it was worth speaking up to somebody about. And over time, Harry started picking me again and everything became more normal. But with Roberto, I learned a few things across the years. and I've tried to give some of this information back to say younger people who are coming through the academies I was at and so on.

40:20And one of them, I don't know if you guys would agree. It's like, say when you're not in a side, there's certain ways you can go and speak to a manager which doesn't sort of like get their back up. And one thing which I got told from my friend at the time, he's an agent. He said, whenever you're not playing, he says, go and speak to a manager and ask what can I do to get into the team? What do I need to do? As opposed to ask them, why am I not in the team? Because then you present it to them like, well this is what you've got to do or they'll tell you you've got to leave but if they'll tell you this is what you've got to do and you start doing it they don't pick you all of a sudden they're the bad guy and it's not you anymore there's lots of things like that uh you're listening to the

40:54Nedum Onuoha:nadam and ua conference thank you very much on uh five live you will not be hearing from me and that will be a regular podcast uh available every tuesday morning via bb

41:10Nedum Onuoha:we have just quoted nadam's enemies no but the thing is those two as such they're not my enemies, but there's such significant moments where it still to this day feels unjust. And now for all the other people who've wronged it. Hey, listen, man.

41:23Chris Sutton:Poor old Craig Bellamy. No, listen, Bellamy's a great guy, but he did not take the fall for me that day. Doesn't know where to be at a set piece, though, does he, Nathan? Well, there you go, my friend, especially at 5-0 up.

41:34Nedum Onuoha:Zinedine Zidane's about to take over France, so we're going to talk about that. Matt Spiro, French football journalist and commentator has been waiting for 25 minutes through through that last segment. Just before, have you got somewhere you need to be very shortly? Or are you okay for a little? I dropped in on a counselling session for Ned and by me, please, we're moving to Zidane. Yeah, apologies. Just before we get on to Zidane, and I don't want to make things worse for Spurs fans at the moment, but you have put out on social media, was it over the weekend about how De Zerbi left Marseille and where Marseille are at now?

42:12Yeah, well, I mean, it's really interesting listening to the discussion that you guys were having about Deserby and his relationship with his players and the way he acts sort of after defeats, because it is so similar to all the discussions we were having over here, you know, in those last weeks, tumultuous weeks at Marseille. And I don't want to paint everything negative about Deserby because it was quite positive for about 15 months. He took Marseille to second. Marseille seemed to be moving in the right direction. There was a lot of investment. They had a big squad. They probably spent more than they really should have.

42:48And things went horribly wrong. And when they started going wrong, in terms of the way De Zerbi behaves after a defeat, I feel like it's exactly the same. He disappears. When they went out of the Champions League against Bruges in terrible fashion, he didn't see his players afterwards he didn't speak to them until the next day but there's also there have been cases where he's really picked on individual players whether that be in the dressing room in front of the players or speaking out in press conferences and there was one player in particular who was really well liked at Marseille Amir Murillo's at Panama International and I think that was a case that really hurt Deserbi because he just went crazy by all accounts uh you know in the dressing room said to maria we're selling you it's not acceptable your performance is a dreadful this and that and i think a lot of the marseille teammates were were you know looking at that listening to that thinking well hang on you know this is a a really loyal good guy um and you know do i want to be playing for a manager who who treats his players like that and uh it wasn't only a memory it was it was quite a few but certainly when things started going wrong, that was very much a feature of life at Marseille.

44:04Chris Sutton:Well, you have to commend Deserby now for not saying anything then, don't you? You have to say he's learned his lesson then, Deserby. But Chris, I mean, I've seen, and again, I've not been following things as closely as you guys at Tottenham, but there have been clips, notably when he was having a big go at Matisse Tell, who's a young French player, as you know, and it felt quite sort of pointed and humiliating and all of that got out. And I know that there have been comments as well, criticisms of the team in press conferences.

44:36Nedum Onuoha:On to the international side of things. This is a huge shift, isn't it, for the French national team after so long under Deschamps, or is it not? I think it's a big shift. I think it's an exciting time because we've been waiting for so long for Zinedine Zidane to take the job that everybody kind of knew that he was going to take. I think quite a few people kind of wanted it to happen a few years ago, particularly after Deschamps had a very bad Euros. But Deschamps overall, his record has obviously been exceptional. He's won the World Cup. He's got to another final. He's got to a Euros final. So, you know, no complaints about that.

45:19But yeah, after 14 years of listening to Deschamps press conferences, of seeing Deschamps picking more or less the same players. You know, he's got his favourites, playing quite pragmatic football. People are absolutely ready. And of course, Zidane, he's everybody's sort of favourite footballing figure. He's an absolute icon here in France. So, yeah, there's plenty of excitement and it was great listening to Zidane speak because that's another thing. We never hear from him. You know, this is a guy who says so little in the media. he's very thoughtful when he does speak. So it's going to be interesting to see how already these next few weeks go.

45:59Nedum Onuoha:So if you bump into him, Nadim, and he doesn't say much to you, that's not because he's sulked. He's just about a few words. It's funny, actually. Julien León was making the point that a lot of the French players are really excited about having Zidane as their head coach because obviously Deschamps had an incredible career, but Zidane is an icon to all this generation. So for them to be at the position they're in as a team and to have somebody that good, but has also done it for Real Madrid as well. Like, never a better time to be a French player, I don't think. And because of that aura, because of his reputation and stature and how he was as a player, what are the French players expecting?

46:37Nedum Onuoha:What are they expecting in terms of a difference of style? I mean, you talked about, you know, Deshaun having favourites or so on and so forth. Are they expecting more freedom? What are they thinking? Yeah, I think, first of all, it is important to sort of say as well, you know, Deschamps has an aura. Deschamps has had an unbelievable career, is one of the, you know, most sort of prestigious figures in world football, let alone French football. And when Deschamps took over, the French national team was in a really bad place in 2012. And he really helped to sort of bring the French national team back to the centre of everything and get French people liking Les Bleus once again.

47:18but yeah it's been 14 years that have passed Zidane is coming in he's taking over at a time when the French national team is in a much much better position they've got incredible talent and I think those players are super excited we know that Mbappe has always sort of grown up being kind of intrigued I mean Zidane is a godlike figure in France I think it's important to sort of stress that and he became a godlike figure in 1998 which is the year that Kylian Mbappe was born in. So, you know, these guys don't really know Zidane the player, but they've grown up like watching videos, hearing the stories and what have you.

47:54So I think there's going to be a lot of excitement. I think when that list was unveiled, it was special because getting picked by Zidane, I think it's even more special than getting picked by any other national team coach. And it's going to be interesting in terms of the playing style. You know, that's the thing. In the last few years, everyone's been saying, oh, it's just so dull under Deschamps, so defensive. I wish we had Zidane. He'd play loads of attacking players. And actually Zidane said, you know, calm down. For me, three attacking players is plenty. The important thing is to find a balance, to find, you know, and actually he was pretty pragmatic during his time at Real Madrid as well.

48:31So it will be interesting, but I don't think it's going to be like all of a sudden four, five, six attacking players, gung-ho football.

48:37Nedum Onuoha:Matt, thank you very much for coming on and being so patient earlier as well. Max Biro, French football journalist and commentator with us on the Monday Night Club. I just want to end with Nadam and Chris and Roy just talking about not necessarily the specifics of JJ Gabriel wanting to leave Manchester United. He's 15, plenty of clubs are looking at him now, Real Madrid, Barcelona, some clubs in the Premier League. Michael Carrick has talked about trying to protect him. There's plenty of stories during the rounds. Of more interest to me, Rory, is, is this really a surprise, given the way the system works now?

49:26Nedum Onuoha:Because there are a lot of kids who are being looked at from rival clubs to take when they are 16, I'm guessing. Yeah, younger. Yeah. Because they realise that there is, I think there's a point, there's a tipping point when they sign pro deals that means that you suddenly have to pay more than a kind of finder's fee effectively it becomes exponentially more expensive there's a kid who has gone from Liverpool to Arsenal I think called Vincent Joseph who's 16 and come over from Chelsea to Liverpool and there's a few that come through that are high profile there's an awful lot more who go for small beer by Premier League standards but big money for teenagers and a lot of them don't ever become the player that they hope to be.

50:12So they might well have really good careers in the Championship or even kind of in the Premier League. But, you know, Vincent Joseph, no idea. But I think if you had to bet at this stage, you'd probably say the chances are he won't ever, he's not going to score 100 goals for Arsenal. Maybe I'm wrong. I hope I am. I hope he has a wonderful career. What I find really odd is that the clubs themselves, and there's only maybe half a dozen who do this reliably, haven't worked out that one, I'm not sure this is great for the kids, that they're getting massive money thrown at them to try and entice them from one big six, one big ten club, whatever you want to call it, to another.

50:49But two, it makes the whole environment much more pernicious, I think. And I'm a little bit surprised there isn't some sort of agreement between the major teams not to poach players from each other. I don't understand. There might be one every so often who is such an incredible talent that they just have to have them. But I think the overall picture would be if they just sort of said, look, let's not take players from each other under the age of 18, you'd actually kind of, what's the word, like deflate or douse the market a bit. And it means you're not exposing these young players and their families to the law of making decisions for immediate cash.

51:32Nedum Onuoha:It should have been a question that I would have put to you, but is that naive? So I, for the most part, disagree with what Rory said. And it's more so because the youth market is a huge market, not just for the clubs, but for the people involved. Because one thing about football is the fact that it's open to everybody. And most people involved in it have got nothing. They've come from nothing. So the money itself that they can make from it is life-changing to where for some of them, they don't need to have had a full career to have their lives changed. And sometimes to think that people will be thinking on a moral level about what is right and what is wrong within football to make sure that they make the best decision, I think in some ways it's misguided because a lot of those guys as well, there's huge interest.

52:14And one of the reasons why someone might choose this place over another is the amount of money that they will offer. Like someone like JJ Gabriel, he's obviously a huge talent because some of the biggest clubs in world football already look at him as a 15-year-old, as a child. I think relatively speaking, like his parents, like we've been saying that I'm not old. His parents are probably younger than me. so for them this is a series of big decisions that they hope that they're getting right for their child but I feel like this became a bigger story because he's leaving Manchester United to go elsewhere because if he was a kid that was say at Brighton that went to Real Madrid because we mentioned Brighton a few times I think in some ways it might be trying to say oh what what an incredible player what incredible opportunity that is and I just feel that at times we're looking at football from the position we're in at the end of it but for some of these people the families the kids this is the start of it yeah i think i think i think that's absolutely right and it depends how you look at like in the same ways you can look at youth development as is it is the purpose of having an academy to bring young players through into your first team or is it to produce players who you can sell so that you can use that money to put into the first team there is a third way of looking at it which is if you your kid is 15 or 16 and their options are to earn, you know, X thousand pounds at the club that they're currently playing at, or they get a massive payday, as Nadam says, that transforms their lives, their family lives, sets them for life by the time they're 20.

53:36It's really hard to turn that down. I'm just a little bit, I'm not sure that having that amount of money sloshing around for kids is healthy for the game. But I take Nadam's point completely that for the individuals involved, it is understandable that is their priority.

53:49Chris Sutton:I mean I think Rory's point about having too much money too early you know it it it stands I think it can be I think it can be a uh a really bad thing JJ Gabriel you know I don't think and I don't know the ins and outs but he can't be in a position where he holds Manchester United to uh to ransom but you know maybe that he thinks that you know it's all about the pathways pathways being blocked there uh and so you know he wants to go down a different route that's that's absolutely fine but you can't have young players holding holding clubs of ransom back in the day mark when i when i first was a uh was a was a white yes i was on 29 pounds 50 the first year 35 pounds the second year you think about all this too much cash too early that's not a lot of cash i had a bus pass as well i lived in digs uh in in the city because the village i lived in in norfolk was too far didn't have a regular bus service and the first digs i uh i lived in had an ant infestation so i um i moved out of that one the second digs i lived in i was with another three three other guys and uh and and the woman and the guy who were the uh who were our sort of landlords went away for the weekend and their cat was pregnant and we and they said look the cat may have babies and they went away and the cat had the kittens overnight and we got up in the morning and the cat had eaten all the kittens.

55:17Chris Sutton:We walked into the cat room and it was like a Texas Chainsaw Massacre. It was terrible. And I got booted out. What a show. And they kicked me out because that was it because the cat didn't have kittens, Mark. I mean, see, JJ Gabriel wouldn't have to deal with that, would he? Meandering into a dead end. Cheers, Chappas.

55:40Nedum Onuoha:Yeah, absolutely. Chappas, do you remember when Micah did the story at the end about a dead dog? Yeah, I do. I remember Micah and that. I remember Micah and the Father Christmas one. And that's right up there. Thanks.

55:56Chris Sutton:Thanks, Chris. I just share that. All these young players, too much, too soon. Deal with that. Deal with the cat having kittens. That's not the problem. It's the eating that's the problem. Well, that's not my fault, Rory.

56:09Nedum Onuoha:Missed any of them? It sounds a bit like it might have been. Thank you, Chris. Thank you, Rorick. Thank you, Nadam. My God. With Five Live Sport and BBC Sounds. Hear all the live, exciting action from the WSL. And it's bigger and better than ever before. Get all the latest news and interviews from the biggest stars of the women's game Alexa Pitez, welcome to the Women's Football Weekly. I love competition, I love football, I love training, I love to improve. To win a league like the WSL, you have to be at your best every single week. Listen with the BBC Sounds app.

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