Monday Night Club: Mateta’s move off, City’s slump & Liverpool’s new star man

0:00This is the Monday Night Club with Mark Chapman on the Football Daily Podcast. Welcome to the Monday Night Club. Chris Sutton, Rory Smith and Steph Horton are with us. You can watch on the iPlayer, you can stream on the BBC Sport YouTube channel. If you do that, you will notice that Chris has got a new angle. You've had the same angle for the last five years, something like that. And now we're looking into a different part of the, what is that, the Sutton drawing room? What is it? I don't call it a drawing room. It's just one of the many lounges which we have. No, I've had this camera for about five years, but just not been able to work it.

0:51And then I got talked through it today by Grace, who we both know very well. and she was laughing at me a lot so I had to get my son in to help me set it up but yeah North Norfolk is moving on for the older generation and technology so that's good You and Alan Partridge both leading the way, are you in North Norfolk? Yes, here we are I know what you're thinking it's transfer deadline night the window's shut at 7 o 'clock, surely there are more exciting things to talk about than the angle of Chris's camera in one of his many lounges. And Sammy Mockbell, I'm not sure. Up until about two minutes to seven, I'm not sure there were many more interesting things, were there?

1:37I know. It's not been slow because my phone's still been going off, but we've not had any confirmation of any deals until seven o 'clock when we know now that Jorgen Strand-Larsen has signed for Crystal Palace. But yeah, all the deal sheets will be... You're not going to ask me to explain what a deal sheet is. No, I think most people know that. Or don't care. Or don't really care. Everybody knows that the window's shut and then for approximately a day and a half afterwards, you can still do deals. You can still do deals. So, you know, the whole thing's just completely, just literally manufactured.

2:12Are you surprised, Steph, that the only major Premier League, I think Spurs and Arsenal have snapped up sort of younger players that they will start in their under-21s. Are you surprised that for all the talk and all the hullabaloo that the only major deal at the moment is Strand Larsen? Yeah, I think for me, probably the club that I thought that would probably go into the market is Liverpool, just because of the injuries that they've got there in the defensive unit. And I think that's been sworn about since even the beginning of the season. If there was anything to happen to Van Dijk and Canati, do they have cover for them too?

2:48and obviously now Frimpong and Bradley are out in terms on that right-hand side. So Soboslai is playing at that right-back role. I think that's probably a big surprise for me in terms of where Liverpool have been in terms of the inconsistency, but also in the Champions League, trying to get back up in the Premier League. And yeah, I think for me, I think they should have maybe done something in this window. Because what they have done in this window is leave it until the summer. Yeah, so they're signing Jeremy Jacquet from Rennes for£60 million, but it's centre-back who's 20 years old, loads of potential, but he's not signing until the summer and it's kind of like, well, you kind of need these plays in the door now.

3:28They've still got a lot to play for, Champions League, top four, so for them not to try and push that deal forward to now, I don't understand the reasons why. I think I know the reasons why, but I think Chelsea were very close to signing him. I think they just wanted to nip in front of them and get the deal done now. But that still doesn't explain why they can't bring him into the squad now. Presumably, Rory, it's got nothing to do with accounting and what goes in what year and budgets and stuff, has it? No, Wren wanted to keep him until the summer. Right. He's got a World Cup to think about. And Wren were very clear, I think, to...

4:07I think Chelsea, Samuel know more than me, but Chelsea, I think we're trying to get it done for this month. But I think Wren's view to Liverpool was, well look we want him to stay here until the summer and I wouldn't be shocked if what meant if what got Liverpool over the line rather than Chelsea was Liverpool going okay I think there are I mean I agree with everything Steph says and I think the strange thing to me about Liverpool today is that they seem to be going for Lucharel Gertruida yesterday that got complicated and they they said someone at some point said no and they haven't thought right we can't get him let's go and it's someone else who can play right back and centre back.

4:41They need cover. And we might talk about it a bit later, whether you can fairly judge, whether you can lay all the blame for whatever happens in the rest of Liverpool's season on Arnaz slot when they haven't given him that cover, I don't know. But I think for Xhaka, it's very much, well, he's among the brightest central defensive prospects in the world. They want to sign him. And the condition of getting the deal done was you wait until next season. And I think Liverpool thought that the long-term gain was maybe worth the short-term pain on that one. Talk us through then. Let's go back to Palace.

5:12Talk us through Strand Larsson and it seems Mateta staying and a late move for Dwight McNeil, which might be one of those deal sheets. Should we deal with the Mateta thing first then? So obviously we were together yesterday and we were starting, to start completely from the start, Crystal Palace have agreed a deal, had agreed a deal with AC Milan of around£30 million to sell Jean-Philippe Mateta I was starting to hear whispers last night about potential problems with the medical I've not seen the paperwork of the medical obviously but my understanding was and Oliver Glasner has been on record saying that at the moment Jean-Philippe Mateta is playing with a knee problem so if you connect the dots you could probably ascertain that I guess that the issue with the medical with Denis so the results from yesterday were so compelling that AC Milan decided to do another round of tests today which obviously flagged the same problems and they decided to to pull out of the deal which leaves Jean-Philippe Mateta in a tough bind obviously but also Crystal Palace to an extent financially I think they were banking on that money now.

6:38I think that's why they've done the Jorgen-Strand-Larsen deal. Obviously, they've done the Strand-Larsen deal now. That's been confirmed, the first deal that's been confirmed today. But Mateta's still at the club. You would have thought now then, Chris, wouldn't you, that Strand-Larsen goes ahead and Mateta in the Crystal Palace pecking order because they've signed him and he wants to be there? Yes It's actually Because I actually think You may disagree That Palace With all what's gone on At the club Selling Mark Gahey Oliver Glasner Making it clear He's not going to be there At the end of the season I thought they could have Got sucked into A relegation battle So actually Having the two of them Isn't actually a bad thing I think But you're right I mean you know I just wonder How the Palace fans Are going to take Or whether they're going to Take Timiteta coming back I know he wanted away and Strand Larson.

7:35The one thing about Strand Larson, let's get it right. He had a good season last season. Scored plenty of goals for Wolves. It's a struggling Wolves team this season, but he hasn't really torn up any trees. He scored one goal this season. Yeah, I mean, that's not great. But yeah, I mean, it's a bit of a mess at Palace at this moment in time. But I think watching them yesterday against Nottingham Forest when they had the numerical advantage in the second half. You know, it was sort of crying out for a Mateta type. You know, he may have been the difference, as he has been so many times under Oliver Glasner.

8:13So I think this season it's not a bad thing if both stay. Of course, it just depends on whether Mateta, you know, if he comes back into the fold, whether, you know, his attitude is on point, you know, and he doesn't chuck his toys out of the pram. But yeah, I don't think it's a bad thing. financially of course it may not work for them but I think they'll stand a better chance of staying in the Premier League with the two of them. I wouldn't be shocked if John-Philippe Mateta uses this opportunity now to sort his knee out and that dilemma might be taken out of the manager's hands and he might just use it to maybe rest his knee.

8:52Except the problem for him is that it's a World Cup year Rory and this was one of the, you know, Champions League football or wanted to go to a club that could offer Champions League football at some point and then be in the France World Cup squad. That, we are told, has been his aim all along. Yeah, and there's obviously, he's been on the fringes of the French squad, but there's plenty of competition. There's no shortage of footballers in France. So if he, Sammy's right, I suppose logically it would be Palace have kind of got his replacement in early. you could then take whatever time you require to to kind of manage the knee injury if something kind of more severe is required but it probably comes at the cost of a world cup but then given all the issues around palace i suspect that will be you know that won't be playing in mateta's favor either that there's a sadness around palace everything that's happened basically since they won the fa cup it's it it's a really kind of yeah regretful story that in this this This team that was such a fairy tale, that was such a feel-good story last season.

9:59And at every step of the way since that cup final, it just seems to have... It's almost like they've taken the wrong path on every single moment. So now their captain was sold, but for 15, 20 million quid less than they might have got for him in the summer. They're going to lose Mateta on a free rather than get 30 million now, Sammy. And then presumably if they'd said... He's got 18 months. Has he not got 18 months left? Mateta? Yeah, he's got 18 months left. Yeah. But you then have Mateta, there will still be some resale value for him then in the summer, which is a bonus. And you're losing Glasner.

10:33It feels as though the energy and the momentum that Palace built up last season has dissipated in about six months. And that's fundamentally just quite sad. I think in terms of Mateta, he will have to try and play. I think in terms of maybe sorting his knee out, maybe for that potential move in the summer. But I think with that competition in the French World Cup squad, I think he has to be seen to be playing and to get him back to the form he was of last season because he probably hasn't hit the heights of what we expected this season because Crystal Palace have had a lot more games. You can see that that's kind of took its toll on how they've performed the form that they've been in.

11:09But it's going to be so interesting, obviously, with Larson now in terms of who starts. And as a player, you want to be selfish, but ultimately the bigger picture is to try and aim to get to a World Cup. And that's the dilemma he has now. moving away from moving away from Palace Wolves seem to have been fairly active today but is this partly preparing for next season yeah they're trying to get this deal over the line for Alan Armstrong who is in my mind a championship player it's almost as you say they're in preparation for the inevitable I'm not sure he's going to prove great shakes in the Premier League they were looking at Shea Adams a move for Shea Adams from Torino but it doesn't look that deal is going to materialise.

11:54And Angel Gomez, the England international who was currently at Marseille, I understand is in the country having a medical, should have completed his medical by now, and will sign on loan with an option to sign for permanently next season. But whether, it depends, I don't know if people are making a scene of whether Wolves take that up and whether Angel Gomez wants to play in the Championship next season. Angel Gomez credit Bill Edgar in the Times for this because this is the kind of stat we like Angel Gomez now becomes the fourth player in the Wolves squad with Gomez as their surname and there's only what?

12:35It's important it's important Chris and in history only crew the only league club to have started a game in any competition with four players who shared the same surname. And that was in the fourth tier back in 1960 when Crewe had Keith Jones, Dick Jones, David Jones and Mervyn Jones in a starting XI against Workington. So there you go. Statman Dave wouldn't come up with that, would he? Let's talk Spurs and Manchester City. We'll come on to Spurs shortly, but we'll talk City first of all, who have now won one of their last six in the league. And that's despite adding Gay and Semenyo to the squad in this transfer window.

13:24Rachel Hurdson is a Manchester City fan and joins us now. What are they doing at the moment? What are they doing? How long have you got? How long do you want? Yeah, yeah. I mean, up until about half five yesterday, it was all going pretty well. We looked pretty comfortable. And I think that's probably one of the problems, that we perhaps looked too comfortable. There's maybe a little bit of complacency setting in yesterday. It probably is a mentality issue there, that at no point did we look like we were going to go on and score more yesterday in the second half. I think that that urgency and tempo and desire just did not exist.

14:10Thomas Frank obviously went in and did something different and Pep didn't respond. And I think that's one of the big problems that we've got at the moment is that it's very difficult to call Pep because he's obviously ultimately one of the best managers of all time. However, he's not up with criticism. And I think yesterday sort of typified the fact that we didn't change it. We've had quite poor in-game management this season, which has not helped our cause. I don't think necessarily because of the number of injuries that we've had and I know everyone complains about injuries but we haven't necessarily had the game changes that we had had on the bench previously that will come on and and change the game around so yeah there's a lot to a lot to unpick I think after yesterday.

14:55The desire thing and the sort of I mean the hinting at complacency thing is it's slightly unusual isn't it because probably at least I'm doing this off the top of ahead here Rachel but probably at least half of that team haven't won a title and are fairly new to City so they haven't really got anything to be complacent about not that I'm saying the ones that have won a title would be complacent but do you know what I mean yeah no I know exactly what you mean but I think is that is does that stop with the manager again in that he's complacent it's this is what has has served us so greatly in terms of our formation and you know our possession-based football which has served us so well unfortunately we've come unstuck now teams know how to play against us they put 10 men behind the ball and then break and that's how you typically get a result and the only time that peps really changed it this season was against arsenal um in the last 15 minutes we actually put 10 men behind the ball and let arsenal come at us and it was only in the last couple of minutes that we came undone we did a really great um a great, we were really solid defensively that day.

16:03But that's the only time he's changed it. So I think the complacency is probably more pointed at the manager. The players actually look afraid to try and play any other way. You know, Turkey was pretty direct yesterday and it looked like Pep was actually having a bit of a go at him for grabbing the game by the scruff of the neck, which was again a bit frustrating. It's almost like you're a bit scared to not retain the ball because of the consequences you might get. as consequence. I remember that exact incident because in the match the Delfth we were sitting there thinking if you're Cherky you'd go will you just calm down mate I've scored one.

16:40I've just scored and the goal is just pulled off. Just back off a bit and let me do my thing would you? You sometimes wonder Chris and I go back to say the game at the turn of the year when they were at home to Chelsea with City where Chelsea scored right at the death the equaliser there. You sometimes wonder with City where because of the players that they've got, they just think another chance will come along and they'll score it. So if they miss one or two, then, you know, it's a little bit of a smile and a shrug and the next one will come. Do you see that? Yes, I just, I mean, I had a look at the City team from 23-24, which won the Premier League.

17:23And I think it's a City team now, which, you know, you look at Rodri back then, you know, I really feel for him with the injury that he's had, but he hasn't come back. He's a different player now, unfortunately. The same player. Bernardo Silva, another player who's been superb for Manchester City, just not quite at the peak of his powers anymore. I think that you look at the centre-half position, I know Gehi has come in, but to lose Diaz, to lose Guardiol, huge losses. Jones, Barca, there's a whole wealth of them that have come. And then you think about the right-back position, and Kyle Walker was brilliant for City for years.

18:04Mateus Nunes was a midfield player who Pep has nurtured into playing right-back. Eight nori, big money spent on him. He's had injury issues, hasn't kicked the ball. I don't think he covered himself in glory. And you put all these things together, and City are still good, but they aren't as good as they once were. where they were the powerhouse in the Premier League and they controlled games. Watching them this season, they just don't control the games in the same way. And I think that's the difference. They still have talented players. Harlan, people are sort of writing him off and I think that's ridiculous.

18:43I know he missed a chance yesterday, but if you have a supply line to him, I think he'll be fine. Semenya, I think, is a good signing. Gahey's a good signing. But it's not quite clicking. It's not quite connecting at the level which City want. And then you look at Arsenal and they're a set-piece juggernaut and look like they're going to win the Premier League off the back of clean sheets and not conceding many goals. And you just sense that's where Arsenal have the edge. But City are still good, just not what they were. We're still in the running, which when you look at our season as a whole, there's really only been a handful of standout performances.

19:24The performance level has not been there. And we used to be putting teams to bed pretty early. Now, you know, I can't remember the last time we had a really convincing win. But I think it's this, like I say, I don't think we've even had a shot on target in the second half since the turn of the year in the Premier League, which is a really worrying stat that was pointed out. But again, it just comes back to this whole lack of urgency, almost like, well, we don't see that shift from second gear. And I think if there was more tempo, then it would help us execute our game. It just feels like you said it's not quite working at the minute.

20:02So the fact that we're still in the running, and Arsenal still keep giving us chances. They lost against United, they slipped up against Forest. We're still in the running because I don't think they'll go the rest of the season without dropping points. But it's more at this stage for City fans. I think they're more looking behind them than in front of them in terms of Liverpool, Chelsea, United have all seemed to pick up a little bit of form now. I know Villa had a slip at the weekend, but it's more for us about finishing top four now than really challenging Arsenal. The worrying thing for me is that when Arsenal have slipped, I use that term loosely, I think these last six games has been an opportunity where there has been games where that gap could have been close.

20:44and I think in terms of performances, I agree in the sense of them first-half performances have been really, really good and we've been able to score, we've been able to create pressure. But yesterday, if you take Spurs, for example, they're in a situation where yesterday they probably didn't expect to get anything because it's Manchester City coming to their home ground, not really great at home. The pressure's on Thomas Frank. With 12 players as well, that's it. That's all they had to choose from yesterday. Exactly, Van der Ven missing. So he always has a good game against Haaland. so that was a thing where I'm thinking, OK, this could be a good game for Manchester City, but I feel as though Spurs had nothing to lose in that second half and instead of sitting behind the ball, they actually gave the game to City in terms of they tried to press them.

21:26But also, sorry Steph, just to jump in there on that second half, Rachel's point about how Guardiola didn't really respond and then after the game he said, because Thomas Rank went from a back three to more of a 4-4-2 really, he put an extra body in the middle of midfield. Gordiel after the game said, well, the moment they put one more player there and more long balls, they won one or two more second balls. And after that, they created the momentum. Well, in normal circumstances or in years gone by, he would have reacted, wouldn't he? I feel as though, I don't think it was a tactical change that was needed.

22:05I think it was personnel. I think you leave him Mamoucho until 80th minute to get him on the pitch, whereas we needed legs, we needed energy, we needed someone to try and change it. Even Rinders in midfield, when you talk about them second balls trappers, he is so good at that. He's able to get back when the ball's travelling there, travel, get underneath the ball. Rodri will win every single header. And Nico came on as well. They've got height in that midfield. So I feel as though in terms of that second half performance, I think City do generally drop off and they are so vulnerable on that counter attack when they are getting countered.

22:39But also, I think at that time, it was more of a personnel change that I think was needed earlier because I think actually, even when it was 2-2, I still think that Spurs were very vulnerable, but we didn't attack them. We weren't direct and we haven't played to Haaland's strengths, even though he's not in form. I don't feel as though we've played to his strengths for these last couple of months, if I'm being honest. I feel really sorry for Haaland. He's getting a lot of stick and yet he'll walk into any other team in the Premier League. I find it crazy that he's being questioned, to be perfectly frank, with the service that he's been receiving has been pretty poor.

23:10And in the first half yesterday, I thought he actually dropped back and linked up the play pretty well as well. We just didn't capitalise on that. I know he had that chance that he should potentially have scored. But yeah, it's been, like I say, Mamouche, I think. Harland as well has played pretty much every minute of every game because Mamouche hasn't been available. and I think that's probably another reason why his form hasn't been brilliant. But he can't win. I mean, earlier in the season we were talking about, oh, there's too much pressure on Haaland. He's scoring every week. There's no goals coming from elsewhere.

23:41Well, guess what? When the goals dry up from him, then we find ourselves in trouble. So maybe not to be too critical of him in the future. Rory? Yeah, I think, for me, I think City are suffering the same thing as Liverpool, as Spurs at home. from a lot of the season and it's the low blocks. Ultimately, if teams set up, you have City have been the best at it for 10 years. City want to have the ball and they want to kill you with 1 ,000 cuts. That's how City beat you. They will move you around and they will wait for a mistake. And that is easier, ultimately, when you're facing teams that want to play out from the back, that want to build their own patterns of play as they move forward.

24:25And half the lead's not doing that anymore. half the lead is getting it, is they're sitting in two blocks of five and they are going, as Steph said, they're going direct as fast as they can. And I think that teams that, those three are all really good examples because they look great in Europe. City, Galatasaray are not a bad team and City just sort of swatted them aside. And I know there was the disappointing result against Leverkusen in November. And Bodo, more recently. And Bodo, but Bodo were... Did you forget them, Rory? I never forget Bodo, Chris, but Bodo, it was very cold. it's a plastic pitch you're basically going down you're going down the Anthony Gordon it's called in Manchester it's the Anthony Gordon it's easier to play in the Champions League or teams are more open in the Champions League rather than the Premier League it is very hard to take Anthony Gordon seriously because of his haircut but what he said is completely accurate but Rory my point is yesterday when Spurs actually came out and didn't have the low block in that second half that is a perfect opportunity for City to actually capitalise and that's what I think is frustrating from a City's point of view like watching the team and wanting them to do well and trying to close that gap on Arsenal when the opportunity not even just from an Arsenal point of view and what they've done it's more like if you focus on yourselves actually that game in that second half was probably perfect for the players that we have and I was thinking back when Chris said about the 23-24 team treble winning team we're speaking about Mamouche like in that team you when harland wasn't playing and we needed a goal you're bringing on alvarez who scores goals like who is that person now because i think everybody thought that phil foden would be that person but he's he's not consistent enough he had that great season but at this moment in time when the game's not going right for him he's still not able to manufacture something is he allowed to be consistent enough and by that i mean do you sometimes feel that players have a good run at City, like for say a couple of months, and then all of a sudden you barely see them for the next six weeks.

26:26They're on the bed. There are several players that I think, you sort of think, well they were playing really well last time I saw them, and now they seem to be on, Rachel's nodding, and now they seem to be, they just disappear for a little while. The best example of that is about having a run in the team was Jack Grealish. So he He was in and out of the team. And then I think just after the World Cup in Qatar, he came back and he played on that left wing and made the position his own. And that's the best form Jack Grealish has ever been in. And the fact that he's had a continuous run of games, it's just not a coincidence for me.

27:01It's got to be much easier to maintain your level of performance when you're playing every week. I do feel, though, Phil Forden's had a lot of opportunities this season. And he went through that little spell where he was scoring and he's assisting. but I think when you're in that moment I don't know whether Chris can back us up in terms of when it's not really going well in the sense of goals and assists I'm hoping you're behind Chris anyway but I think you've got to Why don't you ever come to me with a positive? No, I'm saying this is a good thing I'm hoping that you were this player Chris is what I'm trying to say If you weren't scoring or assisting I'm thinking you're doing something that is going to help the team in other areas and I feel as though sometimes Phil goes missing I think if you took Kevin De Bruyne, for example, in terms of what he brought from an attacking point of view, but also in the defensive point of view, his pressing, his ability to recover, what he can do for the team in terms of leadership.

27:55He's always going to play because of them other attributes, even if he's not on form. So that's my argument with Phil Foden. I think sometimes he does go missing them games where he's potentially not the main kind of guy. Yeah, I think we might be being slightly unkind to Phil Foden this season. I think last season he really did go missing. I think this season he may have had a slow start. And then I think he hit a real purple patch where, you know, you've mentioned his scoring and assisting. You know, I think there's a few games subsequently where he's been slightly off it now. But, yeah, I think we may be being a little bit harsh on Foden this season.

28:34I think he's a grafter. I think he's a hard worker. I think that Shirky came in for a period. and I don't know whether things necessarily change, but when Scherke came in, you think Bowdoin and Scherke feeding Haaland, that's going to work well. I actually think the biggest problems are defensively for City. I mentioned the loss of Diaz, mentioned the loss of Guardiol, chopping and changing in the back line. Whatever you're saying, you can compare this City team to City teams of the past where they used to wipe the floor with teams and score four or five goals. If that wasn't happening, they were more than likely keeping clean sheets and had that continuity at the back.

29:13And that's where it's a struggle. A final one, Rachel. And I sort of hate myself for asking this, really. Well, you're going to anyway. Yeah, I'm going to anyhow. Yeah, yeah. Because I feel like, I mean, Guardiola himself has kind of said this. It's the same thing every year or every couple of years with his contract situation. Do you buy into a lot of the talk at the moment that this could be his last season? Or do you just think, oh, I've been here before several times? or do you look at him and think, oh, maybe this is a bit different? Yeah, I think, again, difficult to judge what's going through Guardiola's head.