Neil Warnock on football, Yorkshire puddings and chiropody

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0:48Very special guest with us today, Joby. An absolute legend of the game. Not just the Football League, but English football in general. Yeah, love him or hate him. You know who he is. Well, I've probably loved him and hated him at various points of my career. I'm very much in the love part of it now, but I'm delighted that he's joined us today. And I'm hoping it's because we've got a decent relationship now. He used to send people out to smash me all over the pitch, but we've gotten a little better now. So, yeah, can't wait for it. You've got to watch yourself walking outside that studio. Chris Morgan's probably lurking.

1:20Nearly 2 ,000 games managed, four United, a town twice, a palace, an athletic and a city. A miracle worker in football and with feet. Corns, calluses, but ingrowing toenails are his speciality. Eight promotions, five times he signed Paddy Kenny. Countless chairman, a lot of wine drunk along the way. And one big row with Kevin Muscat. Maybe one with Nuno Espirito Santo as well. This man is the ultimate definition of hated, adored, never ignored. But beneath it all is a husband, father and a man who loves to drive his tractor. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome Neil Warnock. How are you, Neil? Yeah, very good, thanks.

1:58I thought the 72 plus, I thought that was meaning I was over the age of 72. So, yeah, it's a good one. It's nice to be. When I was asked by, when I know Joby was on, trust me, it was the one, probably the only one I would do at this time of year. And I'm looking forward to it. I've always spoke well at Joby and enjoyed working with him. It's my show too, Neil, but yeah, thanks for that. Sorry, Aaron. Aaron, he didn't have loads of players out to get you for sort of the best part of 15, 20 years, did he? So I think this is a little bit of payback between right backs and left backs just coming after me and trying to take my kneecaps off.

2:33I only used to say, slow him down. I didn't say anything nasty. Well, I know lads that have played for you, Neil, and I think it was a little bit more firm than slowing down. Tell us about the young whippet that was Joby McEnough from the opposition view. To be fair, when I watched him, the one thing he always knew, he was always going to get a crossing with the either foot because full-backs never went tight enough on him. And I couldn't have understood it because I was a winger and I used to hate it when full-backs got tight with me and kicked me and that. So when we played against him, I used to say, right, Mackenuf's your man today, we are going to play 10 against 10, you stick to him and if you go sit toilet before half-time, you go with him.

3:12I didn't probably use those words, but it's on the similar lines. You follow him up that tunnel. Which club did you manage where you're like, you know what, I've got the best dressing room here, I've got the best camaraderie, you've got the best unit? Because I remember watching that Sheffield United documentary, The Year You Missed Out on the Playoffs, and that was a really fascinating insight. It's very, very unique because there was a sort of a gap between where people didn't make football documentaries. I think it was after Orient for a Fiver with John Sitton because it destroyed his career.

3:41But you gave such an insight and it was phenomenal. What I did there is I trusted the guy. They were a company from Leeds, and I trusted the guy. I'd worked with the guy who was in charge in the media, and I said to him, look, I don't want this, because I hate, absolutely hate documentaries when I watch them like that. And I said, I don't want this to be rubbish. What I want you to do is I'm going to be myself. I'm not going to think about anything that I've got around my neck during the match day or whatever it is, but because I'm going to do it that way, you have to let me have a look at it before we do anything.

4:16And if there's something in my language or something else that I don't like or something else, in a certain situation, we take it away. But I don't want to lessen how I am as a manager. And we didn't. I did exactly, I mean, some of the shows, I mean, poor old Morgz. But we do have a laugh about it now, you know. Who's picking Les Scott up? and you know when I speak to him on the phone I said who is picking Lesca up Morgz you know and he'll have a laugh but I mean the thing about me I give rollickings after games and only when I thought they needed it but I went to do a press conference after and I'd come back into the dressing room everything's gone nothing no you know I had some managers who let things dwell for weeks if they shouted at me You know, and what have you.

5:09I never, ever worried about anybody else. When I come back in after press, it had all gone. We're on to the next game. No criticism. But it was the way I was. I had to let it go how I felt if they let them down. You've got to, I always say, I know I use that phrase, you've got to die for three points. But you've got to care. You've got to want to win your own battle, for goodness sake. Neil, Paddy Kenny gave an interview and he told a story about you in a certain state of undress with pseudocrim. You were applying pseudocrim on yourself after having a shower, but you were constantly giving the players that famous rollicking.

5:50But is the story true? In those days, probably when I first signed him, yeah. And I don't, I mean, Paddy, I think that might be his claim to fame, really. I still contact him, you know, he's a lovely lad. And the thing about Paddy Kenny is, I remember going to, I signed him from Bradford Park Avenue, I think, if I remember right. And he'd come with us and we trained him and everything. And I just liked him. I thought, do for me, this kid. And I said, look, Paddy, I'm going to send you to Whitby on loan. I said, yeah, I want to toughen you up. I want you to go up there. I said, it's a nice place and blah, blah, blah.

6:29And he had cut a long story short. So about three weeks later, one night, he rang me, he said, Gaffer. I said, how's it going, Paddy? He went, Gaffer, it's so cold. Cold up here, I can't even feel my fingers. Well, you're coming back in a few weeks and you'll enjoy it. And it sort of made him. And the thing about goalies is when you look at goalies, and I've seen some mistakes this last few weeks on the telly, I could count on one hand how many mistakes Paddy Kenny would do in a season. and it would be very rarely more than two, maybe three, but never, you know, when I look at it today. And that's what your good goalie, I remember Cloughy signing Shilton, you know, when I had luncheon with Cloughy, I had a few lunches when I were at Knox County as a young manager and he said, son, 16 points a year, he'll get me.

7:17And I mean, I didn't think it were as many as that, but Paddy Kenny were like that with me. I knew that we wouldn't concede anywhere near the goals because he was in between the stakes. How do you deal then, Neil, with your goalkeeper walking into training one day with his eyebrow missing because it got bitten off? Yeah, well, I just pull him and I told him, I said, you don't look so good today, Paddy. Could you tell me what's happened? And, you know, Paddy told me about the story. He was somewhere in Halifax and somebody said something and somebody did this and somebody did that. and I think all I said to him, well, I hope it doesn't affect you playing in your next game, son.

8:00I said, forget a good result you play, well, nothing will happen. If you play rubbish, you'll be hearing from me. So it's up to you, son. And he played out of his skin, as you would expect. I mean, that with Paddy Kenny, you know, there was always something coming, going to crop up at some stage, but a real good kid. So we've heard you give the lads Christmas Day off. What about the Christmas parties? because obviously, especially a few years ago, they were quite infamous. Was there any a time where you had to cancel over him if form wasn't good or you were a bit worried about what it might look like?

8:30Or is that, again, something you always had set in stone? You'd give him a certain amount of time and regardless of what happened, it's gone after time. I think it's gone earlier and earlier now, hasn't it, really? I mean, I think the last one I had, the last lads, I think it was somewhere like end of November. Yeah. You know, and it was sensible. I think, you know, they'd fly out somewhere. I remember, I can't remember which club it was now, and I remember how bad it got when I got a phone call that somebody at one of the parties infiltrated. I was told, fortunately, before it happened, a young lady was going to go, a cover-run young lady for a tabloid, that she was going to go where our lads were going and she was going to get some stories.

9:15and fortunately I managed to get hold of the skipper before it happened and told him, marked his card and, you know, it went by without any hassle. Well, that's the challenge and I think for me that was always something that, again, you go to the gaffer nice and early, you'd sort of earmark a time that you felt was reasonable to maybe go away. It used to be maybe a couple of days, you know, you'd go on a Saturday, have the Sunday, maybe get the Monday off. And again, it was a time where I think for players, particularly when you know what's coming, you know, around the Christmas and New Year period, it's so busy.

9:46Just that little outlet, you know, for the group to go away. And I'm a massive believer in having that social time away from the training ground. You get lads who come out of the shells a little bit more, maybe relationships that, you know, you don't have in and around the training ground. And all of a sudden you come off the back of a Christmas do. I remember going into some in terrible runs of form. And then you have your time away and you come back and then you get those better relationships forming. And I think it's a shame now that there's so much scrutiny for groups of players You have to be so good.

10:14I remember once, Joey, I can't remember exactly which one it was. I think it might have been Cardiff. But anyhow, I remember him coming like this, you know, we want to go after the game on Saturday gaffer. We're going to go, I think it was Sweden or not, not Sweden, but somewhere away. We're going to go so-and-so, so-and-so, so nobody will see us. We're going to come back on Sunday night, Monday, and, you know, could we have Monday off? I said, no, you can't. So he looked at me. I said, I don't want to see any of you till next Thursday. I said you'll have Monday off Tuesday off then you'll have a walk hopefully and have a nice stretch on Wednesday which I normally give them Wednesday off I said but then Thursday we will work hard and for next Saturday that's how I dealt with it you used to have sort of the template didn't you I mean there was the infamous trips to Scarborough getting everyone in the sea that was key to your team building process yeah it was I mean I enjoyed it I don't see any reason why you don't do that now I can see Michael Tong and Curtis Woodhouse, I think it were, having to take their shirts off and just run into the sea with the shorts on.

11:18And we were just throwing, we made circles on the sand and we all got stones. And it was chucking them into their circle and the furthest away, you know, and we had one round, two rounds, and then the final. And then obviously the lads all got behind them. And the lads never quibbled. They never, you know, off they went in the bloody sea and it was absolutely freezing. And I had a few good times, Scarborough. I made a few quid at bowling there. And I remember that was one of my best because nobody knew that. For about a year, I actually worked at a bowling alley when I was 18. And I averaged around about the 200 mark then, 210.

11:59I was pretty good at that. You had your own ball? Yeah, so I had my own ball, gloves, everything, you know. What a guy. Because when they all chipped 20 quid in, And I think it was Pesky Salido who had come to see me. Pesky, lovely lad. And he said, Gaffer, you know, what about when we were up here with Bowling Alley? Yeah, all right. I said, see if we put 20 quid in here or whatever it were. 10 quid, 20 quid. So they all put it in. And then I get my ball out. I think I shot about 230. I can imagine the boys' faces. Just hang on a minute. Gaffer's cleaning us out here. Well, the mouths were wide open.

12:31And, of course, they're all there at the end. And Pesky obviously presented me with the money. and I just smirked and smiled as I walked off with my own ball. You know, put it away again to the next happy days. You mentioned Paul Pesky-Solida there. He comes in a long line of generals. We've talked about Paddy Kenny already. Chris Morgan's been mentioned. You've got them. Sam Allardyce has got them. Everyone's got them. The generals, the lieutenants. How do you build that army and who would be on your list of lieutenants? I think you just get that feeling, don't you, when you go in dressing rooms.

13:06probably I look around the clubs that I've been at and you know we went into Cardiff and they were really struggling at the bottom but you looked around the dressing room and they had Gunnarsson Midfield Morrison at the back QPR had Helgeson and Kasper Gork yeah Desa was there Clint Hill one size you know and it was just so they were leaders you don't get that type of player nowadays now with With Huddersfield, when I was at Rotherham, when I went to Rotherham, we had Kirk Broadfoot and one or two other lads in the 30s. So we had a spine down that side, you know, and then I looked at the Huddersfield.

13:52It was slightly different there. There were nice lads, you know, there weren't really any what I'd call up-and-atom leaders and such. So we had to be a little bit different there. We had to sort of take one or two lads in, Michael Hellick, the centre-half, and Tom Lees. I never heard him speak in 20 years, me, Tom. But what a lovely lad. So we had to do it a different way. They had to be a leader by example. And Hellick, for me, was the best centre. He should be playing higher up. For me, he should be top of the championship, Hellick. You know, good player. And could have done even better, I think.

14:29So, you know, you've got that gist of it. And so you put more onto them. And, you know, I've enjoyed the sort of, you know, getting clubs safe just as much as getting promotion, Joe, if I'm honest. The Rotherham thing, I mean, we should have had nowhere near had a chance of staying up. Do you think that's the best? I mean, the Huddersfield, honestly, Neil, listen, I've covered a lot of football. I've seen a lot of teams that are really struggling. That Huddersfield job, honestly, for me, you know, was one of the best. I could not see any way that that team was going to survive. Like you just said, for those reasons, maybe a lack of leadership, maybe a lack of goals, whatever it was.

15:07But you seem to be able to, Josh Karoma, prime example of that, was struggling a little bit. You go in there, had a really good chat with him about it. I know him well. And just a way of getting something out of a player. I just loved him. He was a rogue. He told me a story. A likeable rogue. He said, you went in there and you said, look, you've not quite been at the level you need to be. I think you can go and win us games of football. So what I'm going to do, I'm going to look at the opposition and whatever fullback's the least effective getting forward, that's going to be your man. But do not ever let that fullback run past you.

15:38If you do, you're banging trouble. And just finding those little ways to get a little bit more out of lads. And I know for a fact that really helped. And he was sensational for you. He didn't think he could do that. And I think he realised, he appreciated that I was going to give him the best chance of doing that. But I always said to him, look lads, when I went to every club I go in and when I do the training session, I always say, listen, lads, you know forwards are going to get the stick. I said, well, when our referee games, you know, centre-halves, what are they? Big, audible, usually ugly.

16:10They edit and kick it. They don't have to worry about creating things like you lads up front. So I will never have a go at you lads if you get the ball and run at people and lose. Whereas these guys, you know, they don't get any stick. They don't get any blame. But you win is the game. and I just love, not Josh, but other clubs I've been at, I love the excitement, even as a manager, I love the excitement when I was just watching Chef United. I remember the wingers, you know, and we had a lad, Ronnie Simpson, left winger at Chef United, he was bald and all the ground would cheer if he ever headed the ball.

16:51It was such an unusual thing. and, you know, all church on the other side. But they excited me. I knew. And if you look at all my teams, they've always got people that excite you. I want to, you know, but, you know, listen, my teams don't pass it around at the back. I mean, they started giving me, sort of putting me in a Notts County, put a label in me, a long ball. But I mean, I spoke to Craig Short the other day, Craig. When I went to Notts County, We had a back four that couldn't pass water. So we weren't going to pass it around. Neil, you say that people labelled your side and your style as long ball at Notts County.

17:33I just want to know what you think of the condemnation of that style is because there are many ways to get a job done, but it feels like there is this trickle down from the Premier League into the Football League where everyone wants to be playing this ticky-tack. And sometimes they just get embarrassed by it. I watch defences left, right and centre. every day of the week where the players aren't good enough to play, but the managers insist. I know they do. I mean, it's a shame, really. I mean, I think from a management point of view, you've got to try and win. If you're in it, you've got to win games.

18:05And you've got to win games by either being tactically better if you've not got better players, or you've got to come up with a solution, etc. But I still don't understand how anybody can say we're going to play this way come what may. I don't, honestly. I mean, you know, I've looked at it over the last couple of years and, you know, people, like I say, have a go at me. But I said, listen, if you watch Liverpool, this is in the heyday, they whack that ball. They put balls over the top like you've never seen. We hear in Russian, Dag Leeson, all them. But that's not long ball if it's Liverpool. If it's Notts County and Neil Warnock, it's a long ball.

18:42There's a time and a place for long ball, even now in the modern game where teams push up, you know the goalie's going to knock it now and then and try and catch them out. But what I don't understand is, I watched a game a few weeks ago and the team's losing 1-0 and we're in 89th minute and they get a free kick on the halfway line and they take it short. The opposition close them down, it goes from one side to the other. Opposition close them down. In the end, it went back to the keeper. And they're losing 1-0 in the 89th minute. and I'm thinking to myself, why don't you put the centre halves up in the box and take a free kick and put it in the box and try and get second balls?

19:23I just, I don't think that's tactical genius, mate. I think it's bloody stupidity, mate, when I watch it. The other day I saw a couple of goals conceded when the goalie passed it out. What's the point of a goalie passing it out of the kid who's receiving it? He's not got an alternative to play somewhere when it's safe. You don't give it out if they've got people on. I'm sorry, but I love to watch, you know, when sometimes I'm on my chair when I watch Arsenal and what have you, and I go, oh, no, but they get away with it because they've got so much quality. But they get away with it. But lesser mortals can't get away with that because if there's a weakness, the higher you go, the opposition will find that weakness.

20:07Do you think football is becoming a bit boring then in terms of that sort of style particularly? Absolutely. You don't get as many, like you say, crosses into the box, maybe shots. It's always that sort of people want to cut back and keep the ball and recycle it rather than getting in a position just to whip it forward. But when you see them in the position on the outside in the box, and you look in the box, there's nobody there, is there? So you think, well, you can understand why they're not going to cross it. But then they come back, don't they, and build it. Who was it a couple of weeks ago where they were down to 10 men, might have been Man City, and they had the ball all the time and going side to side.

20:41But in fairness to Man City, I mean, they've been the best side last few years. I remember at Cardiff, we've played 25-30 minutes. We're doing well. We've had a couple of chances and our goal is made a couple of chances. But 0-0, 30 minutes gone. We're coming at half-time with 3-0 down. And the third goal, the score's the third goal. And I'm the manager of the opposition and I'm saying, what a fantastic goal that is. And I'm the manager and we were 3-0 down. I mean, talk about different players in the time. David Silva. David Silva, Jobby, was my favourite. Little David Silva. Obviously, you weren't around then, but when I was a kid, Bobby Charlton, they said he's lazy.

21:26He's a lazy player. But when you watch Bobby Charlton, he wasn't lazy. He could walk into a position to get the ball that other players would have to run and sprint because he had a brain. and he made it look easier him and David Silva was very similar. I'd never seen anybody like that team over the last few years when I looked at it. They had a bit of everything, not just the creativity, but they had that nastiness and all in the team. They're great. A lot of time for Pep. Everybody said, yeah, he's always had the best players, but I know what's in his mind now. He knows now that in the next 12 months, 18 months, if he does the same again, he's a miracle man because he knows he's got injuries.

22:11But he'll be already planning ahead what he's going to do with him because I think as a manager, he's as good as I've ever come across in my whole life. Perfect time for us to hear a clip from You'll Never Beat Carl Walker with Carl and Michael Brown talking about when Neil Warnock met Pep Guardiola. Pep's come over to me and he says, the two people that I'd really, really like to get to know, right, is Neil Warnock and Sam Allardyce. and I went well I'll bring Neil Warnock to the next game if you want he was like perfect invite him and he came in and you know they had a good conversation I don't think Pep probably understood a word that he was saying it went something like this right it went so right I've got to be careful here because I couldn't get a tone I was saying Pep's talking about football and life and everything and it's really nice and Neil's obviously just loving it and then he's like saying that Ake guy he surprised me he's done much better Pep hasn't he do you know I wasn't sure that he was going to be at the level when you first signed him, that Ake guy.

23:10And he goes, and that Doki, Doki, is it Doki, Doki, Doki, Doki guy? Yeah, he's looked all right, hasn't he, Pep? He's looked all right good. And Kyle's gone, Pep's quite good, you know, he has had Messi, he's quite decent. And I was crying, I was like, sure as he'd gone that high, I was thinking, Pep can transform a bit of a player here, Neil. There's two players that owe me big time. bloody they wouldn't have a career if I hadn't have got involved I'll tell you that now and Brownie I couldn't nobody would have him he was on loan at Portsmouth he'd been bombed out of Man City I went to watch him once he was playing on left wing and I thought I met him what a likeable little rogue he was another one I've always seemed to get those type of players but what a player I made I mean he did it himself as well he worked hard some of the goals he gave us in the promotion season 20 and whatever 25, 30 yards against Sheffield Wednesday in a derby.

24:06Things like that I'll never forget. But a lovely lad, I know. Both lads are. I'm pleased for Kyle. He's gone on to play. And he's been a good player, hasn't he? England-wise. Deary, mate. We're talking too much football, Neil. I want you to talk feet to me and Shiroppity. And in particular, a chairman at Notts County. Yeah, Derek. Derek Pabish, yeah. I used to do his feet because he had bad feet. had suffered with this ingrowing toenails. And to be fair, my speciality was ingrowing toenails. I was really, really... I could have done that without a shadow of a doubt. What, so if you weren't a manager, Neil, that would have been your calling in life?

24:44Yeah, I had a surgery. And I used to go around to, like, British Own Stores and House of Fraser and all them places doing the staff's feet. So I had a, you know, I had a... Sorry, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, no, no, no, no. Back up, back up, back up, back up. Let's go back to Derrick Pabies. You put British home stalls and used to go and do the staff's feet. What was it? Just a rolling contract? How did it work? When I first got the surgery, I only had enough patients for two days. So I thought, how am I going to get some more patients in? So, of course, I rang the departments, the employees people, I forget what they call them, and I said, look, I've got a half a day spare.

25:23And I ended up getting six of them for half a day, which filled up my ear for a week, really. So I was quite clever at that. but I was, you know, like I say my ingrowing toenail was my special because a lot of old chiropodies in that day they would just take your nail off but I could save the nail, I was good because I had good eyesight and good with my scalpel, Derek Pabies was one of them and I could do it without hurting him and I remember one day he'd really got on my nerves the chairman, he'd come up and he'd started talking and he didn't know anything about football Derek and he started talking about tactics and all that and I said to him, Derek where have you gone listen to you talking about why didn't I play him and so on so on so I said who have you been talking to well I had a chat with so on so I said well who is he he's gardener he's been talking to his gardener and he's telling me about what I should be doing so anyhow he'd bug me so he'd come in to have his toenail done I remember saying to Mick Jones my assistant then Mick sit in other office leave your door ajar now so I'm going to do Derek's feet and of course he comes in and he sits there and I'd started doing his ingrowing toenail and I shoved that little thing a little bit further than I normally do and he went, oh I'm sorry Derek, I said it was right stuck in this time, I'm sorry about it oh I did enjoy it.

26:41Who was the last player you looked after feet wise? I think Rotherham, I might have been one at Rotherham, but only if the physio was doing it I'd have a look that's all and said to him what I felt. I'm assuming you're always very much getting a chiropodist in And it's amazing, like, looking back on it now. I can only probably recall a couple of clubs where we'd have a regular chiropodist come in and look after the legs' feet, you know. Well, even at Torquay now, where I am, they've got a chiropractor. I mean, she's ever so good. She does my back and it's brilliant. So I hope Paul won a lot, didn't I?