Premier League Review: Man Utd stun Arsenal

0:00On the Football Daily Podcast, Premier League Review with Rick Edwards. Hello and welcome to the Football Daily. It's the Premier League Review with me, Rick Edwards. With us on this episode, former Liverpool and England goalkeeper David James and BBC Sports senior football correspondent Sammy Mockbell. Evening both, all good? How are you doing? What does a David James January weekend look like? This weekend I was down in Bournemouth to watch my two old teams play in what I thought was a fantastic game of football. today has been spent watching football and painting. Oh, what are you painting at the moment?

0:38I can't really say because it's a little bit political. What do you mean you can't really? I mean, oh my God, okay. All right, well, that's enough painting chat probably. Let's talk about the football that I think we've all just finished watching. Arsenal beating at the Emirates for the first time this season. And I've got to say, Sammy, it was a really, really good game. So first half an hour, Arsenal were kind of dominating. So you thought, oh, they'll probably just go on and win this quite comfortably. And then basically once they scored, United really came into it. And then the second half was cracking.

1:10It's a shock result. I know it sounds ridiculous to say Man United being Arsenal, but Arsenal have been in decent form, very good form. They're a very good side. So for Man United to go there and win the game is seismic, really. certainly in the title race, 24 hours after Manchester City have cut the gap, which is now four points, Arsenal appear to have a serious problem scoring goals from open play. And as good as they are, you just wonder if that will be a problem moving forward. Because it's only one result. And I know, you know, it's only one weekend, but Manchester City winning against Wolves yesterday.

2:01And this result today seems to me as a pretty big weekend in the title race. But if you look at the attacking options that Arsenal have, David, so, I mean, we don't really need to talk about Jochoresh particularly, but Jesus, Havertz when he's back fit, Madweke, Martinelli, Saka obviously, Eza, Trossard, they should not be struggling for open play goals. Yeah, I think what was interesting about today's game and I agree, obviously before the first goal, I was thinking this is going to be 0-0. It will be board senseless but some teams will be quite happy with the 0-0 draw. Once they went 1-0 up, you're thinking, OK, here we go, this typical Arsenal is going to be 1-0, that will do.

2:51I wasn't expecting them to go and romp the game. But it is a terrible mistake to allow on Burma to score the equaliser. And that completely changed. The Arsenal methodology this season has been pretty faultless. They haven't needed someone to be there with 20 goals a season. They don't need all their strikers to be scoring masses of goals because they've been romping the title, They'd been, you know, ramping the league, top of the Champions League, you know, sort of arguably on for a quadruple. So there was no problem beforehand. It was a problem today because in a game with five goals, four of them were scored by Man United.

3:26And actually, I think I heard a stat on the TV commentary about the last time that Arsenal conceded three goals. It was a long time ago. They've been so defensively strong for a long time, actually, under Mikel Arteta. Yeah, well, that central defensive partnership of Gabriel and William Saliba is probably the best in European football. And those two are the foundations of their title bid, really. So then, you know, that just sort of emphasises the job that Manchester United have done today. To go there and score three times against one of the meanest, if not the meanest defence in European football is no mean feat.

4:05And what I start, you know, Michael Catrick has had to, and I'll probably talk about it later, but what a start he's had to his interim tenure at Manchester United to face Manchester City and then Arsenal in the following weekend and picking up two victories is fairytale stuff really. Let's hear from Michael Carrick. It was a good day. I think we had to put a lot into that game, an awful lot in so many ways and credit to the boys, so proud of them. We had to sustain some attacks, especially earlier on. We grew into the game, had a setback, come back strong. Had a setback towards the end, come back strong.

4:43So many elements of the game that were good. We're so fresh with it. It's ten days in, two games, and it's never going to be perfect at this stage, especially coming against a team like Arsenal. But there were so many positives to take, and I hope we can keep adding to it in the days and weeks to come. Does this start, two wins in two against big, big opponents, change your views on the job more permanently? No, no, I'm just... Offense has changed, you know. I've been here less than two weeks and I'm just desperate to do well and improve the team and finish as high as we can. And having days like this and last week is something you get greedy for and you want a little bit more and we need to keep building on this in the weeks to come.

5:25And you've seen the effect it had on the fans, especially at the end. Yeah, my kids were in there, so they were enjoying it. I think it's important we have moments like that In games like that, they've supported us unbelievably well for so long. To give them something to shout about in days like this is what it's all about. Michael Carrick with kids. I remember commentating on you when you started out at West Ham. You're a kid yourself. They're not even kids. They're 60, nearly 60, nearly 18. You can enjoy it like the rest of them. And he's done kind of the things that looked from the outside to just the casual observer, like the obvious things to do.

6:01Stopped playing three at the back. I know he switched to it right at the end, but that's different. But switching to a system that the players are obviously comfortable playing and then putting players basically in positions that suit them. So having Bruno as a 10. And I know it isn't that simple, but it sort of is as well. Yeah, not to belittle Ruben Amarim's tactical outlook or Michael Carrick's. I think his kind of results belittle his tactical outlook. You can say that, yeah. But I guess it's not rocket science, as you say. It is putting square pegs in square holes. And it's playing a system that the players are comfortable with.

6:48Throughout Ruben Amarim's term, you never really got the sense that the players were ever comfortable playing in that system. And the first thing that Michael Carrick has done to go in there to play this 4-2-3-1 system that he's played at Middlesbrough, that is also the real, I guess, the heart and the philosophy of what a Man United side should be traditionally. And look, they've had a brilliant start and have taken to it like a duck to water. And, you know, fair play to him. And the other kind of bigger decision, I suppose, David, that he's taken is not starting Cesco and Cunha, but playing Dorgo a bit further forward.

7:32And that's played dividends, scored two and two now, Dorgo. Yeah, I mean, I think the Man City one sat nicely for him because he didn't really have too much time to get too serious about stuff. And if you can't play in a local derby like that, in a big local derby to the best of your capabilities, and Man United have done this under Ameren, they've done it under pretty much everyone, gone into these massive games, either been really terrible and drawn or being able to get a result, which I'm a saw. I mean, Amorim won at Anfield, didn't he, this season. So that was a good start for him. What he's done in this second game, I think, has taken the positivity from that first game.

8:11But we have to look at Dorgou's goal today. I mean, it wasn't a handball. That's fine. It was a wonder strike. And then you look at Kunia's goal. It's a wonder strike. Another thing, I mean, Arsenal might not have conceded three goals for the wrong time. I can't think when they conceded two in one game from outside the box. That's the quality of the strikes they've got. So, yes, enjoy the win. It was a fantastic win. And obviously for Manchester City and Aston Villa, a very important win for their chances of trying to win the title. As far as reliability from that kind of goal to win games of football, I don't think that would last long.

8:47So, therefore, the tactical side. Because David Ray, I don't think, made a save, did he, in the game? If he did, it was one. Not that I remember, no. No, which is typical Arsenal. But if you've got the quality of the goals to win a game, You take those 90 minutes as what you need to do. But I think on a long-term strategy, if you're relying on the likes of Kunja and Dorgut who score wonder goals, then it's not going to be the formula for long-term success. There was a lovely moment where Gary Neville, who was on co-coms, you could hear the excitement. And this, I think, was at 2-all, actually.

9:20Or maybe it was when United were 2-1 up. And he's saying, almost like a note to himself, you don't want to get too excited here. you don't want to speak too soon. Literally 10 seconds later, he said, oh, Maguire's turning into Beckenbauer and Dallow's like Cafu. And it really made me laugh. And the thing is, you know, the serious point is you can't get too excited by this. But if I was a United fan, those two wins would get me excited, Sammy. Why can't I get excited? Yeah. Why can't I get excited? That is the beauty of football. You've got to let yourself get excited when things are going well.

9:55I totally understand the outlook of keep your foot on the ball. It's only two games. But the two games against your deadliest rivals, your local rivals and the champions elect. You've just come out with six points. If you can't get elated about that, then you might as well just call it a day. It's been a brilliant seven days for Manchester United and Michael Carrick. And yeah, we do have to err on the side of caution. I absolutely agree with David there. They're not going to score worldies, are they, week in, week out. But they've got a foundation to build off now. And I don't know what their next fixtures are.

10:41I haven't checked, but they will go into those. Fulham at home, Tottenham at home. Tottenham at home. Fulham, Tottenham, West Ham, Everton away. All winnable games. They will go into those games. Fulham are flying at me. But they should go into those games. They will go into those games with a bouncing nest up. Yeah. I mean, Sammy, I totally agree. I'm not saying the Man United fans should be excited. If I was a Man United fan at the moment, I'd be shouting. I'd be on the phone to every Arsenal fan I know and just giving it to them. I'm just saying, and I have to caveat that with Michael Carrick as an English manager, even if he's an interim manager, and seeing that coaching staff, I think for anyone who wants English managers to do well, and I know having qualified all the badges for management, there's this sort of scepticism towards English managers in the world of football.

11:32So see him doing well with this group of players, I think is another sort of feather in his cap. But I'm just saying long-term, if that's what you're going to rely on, then it's not going to, it's not going to do it. With the quality of that coaching staff, you would like to think that they will find the way to get shots on target more often and win games with rubbish goals. Here's Mikel Arteta. Well, first of all, you have to get credit to Manchester United. Obviously, we give them a goal, which is unusual and painful. And then they have two brilliant moments when they have incredible strikes from the edge.

12:06And we were in our best today. I mean, we gave so many times the ball away unnecessarily in really dangerous areas. And against this team, you are in the edge because you know the quality they have. We talked before the game how they can activate the open spaces. and we started to lose control and dominance and became a more chaotic game. Really uncharacteristic, wasn't it, some of the things we saw? Yeah, it is the moment to stay with the players. Those players deserve a lot of credit for what they've done. The consistency that they show where we are is because they are so good and they've been performing.

12:37So when we lose a game, I take the responsibility and we have to protect the players. At 2-2, did you think you got something out of the game? 100 % and after that, none is one against one in the 6-0 box. for a goal kick, they kick it long, one pass and they score a goal. And they lost all the momentum because that was the moment that we had. It's still, I don't know, maybe 12, 13 minutes to play. We were on top of it and we just gave it away. It's going to be topsy and turvy, isn't it? Week in, week out, between now and the end. Yes, but if you want to win, you have to go through those moments.

13:08You know, you expect to win every single game. We had 30, 31 games to play. It's totally unrealistic. The margins are very small. We made them even smaller today in the manner that we did certain things against Man United. And now it's time to react. Now we have to see what we are made of and react. And the first game is in the Champions League. Martin Odegaard, after the game, said it wasn't good enough from us, but now it's starting to stick together even more. I was slightly surprised that he came off. I mean, Mikel Arteta made four subs, didn't he? And Odegaard just has that. He has that guard.

13:45he might just conjure up a little bit of magic when you need a goal, Sammy. Yeah, but they've got so many options, haven't they? The one thing I do wonder about Arsenal, are they going to run out of legs? I don't know if they've got a big squad, but they've had a whole load of injuries over the course of the season, which perhaps hasn't allowed Mikel Arteta to rotate maybe as much as he would like. given the workload I've got another European game this week but they can rest everyone for that they can because they're through and it's basically a dead rubber right and it's the bottom of the yeah Kyra but my point being you just wonder if those injuries at the start of the season and sort of the pressure going into the business end of the season you just wonder if it affects Arsenal because they haven't got over the line yet.

14:48Sammy, they've got pretty much a full-strength squad. For the first time in a while. No, you are right, David. They have now. They have now. They have now. But for the first time in a while, their season has been sort of crippled really by key injuries and fair play to them for being where they are in the table. But yeah, they've got their players back now. So there should be opportunities moving forward for Mikel Arteta to rotate. And they have got incredible depth. It's incredible. When everyone is fit. I mean, they've effectively got a second sort of full strength 11. In my mind, the squad is the strongest without doubt in the Premier League.

15:29So yeah, there can be no excuses. But this is kind of... And they are still... Yeah, go on, David. Sorry, there's still two games clear of everyone else. yes what's their goal difference well actually no not really because City's goal difference is slightly better than theirs isn't it well they effectively have to not win two games for someone to I know they've got City coming up quite soon well it's April I think isn't it but the I mean it's still two games and if Mikel Arteta is the manager that we we think he is or has been up until today's game then he'll get in that changing room and say come on guys let's just get back on track and someone's got to make up that four-point gap.

16:11It's still a big gap for a team that doesn't lose many games. Yes, yes, but I think Arsenal fans have been worrying and you could feel it listening to the commentary and then watching it on TV. You could feel the stress in the Arsenal fans. Ian Wright didn't look stressed. Well, he has his head in his hands. I think you could definitely hear on the commentary and see on the TV pictures that the Arsenal fans are getting a bit stressed because they're worried about having a bit of a wobble and then crumbling under pressure. So they've dropped some points away to Forest, now dropped these points against Manchester United.

16:51At the same time, City winning. I know it's against Wolves, but still. Villa beating Newcastle, Tunitz and James' Park is a really big result for them. And four points with two teams will be... It's a momentum thing, isn't it? And up until this point, the momentum has always pretty much been with Arsenal or if it hasn't been with them, it also hasn't been with anyone else. That's kind of my point. This potentially could be a bit of an inflection point. Do you think I'm overstating that, David? Well, I'm not a momentum fan because if you win 10 games in a row, then your momentum will mean you'll win 11.

17:31And it doesn't happen that way. Otherwise, Arsenal would have won today. I just think the confidence is an issue when it comes to maintaining that form. And yes, of course, where we're saying about Michael Carrick and Man Utd fans not being happy, I think Arsenal fans would have to have a concern because it is fair to say that Arsenal have had a career under Nikola Teta of being in positions where you'd think they're going to go and do everything and then something goes slightly wrong and it all falls apart. And if it falls apart this early, I mean, we've still got a lot of games to play. If it falls apart this early, then that could be the catastrophic fall of grace, I think.

18:09Unai Emery, after that excellent result against Newcastle, still can't quite make his mind up about whether Villa are title contenders. And, I mean, they are, aren't they? Well, they're there or thereabouts, aren't they? When you're looking at the table, if you were to come down from Mars and you looked at the Premier League table and you see how close they are. And you say, yeah, of course, they are Premier League contenders. But I look at their squad. I've got some fantastic players, but I also think they're one or two injuries, always one or two injuries away from a bit of a selection crisis.

18:46They just don't have the depth that Manchester City and Arsenal have. If they can keep their team, their starting XI, fit and available for the run, rest of the season and then they can be there or thereabouts. But I just don't see a scenario where they can seriously and genuinely challenge either of those two sides. But listen, they're a brilliant side with some excellent attacking players. But I think if they finish third, they would have had a brilliant, brilliant season. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Agree with that. But you can see a scenario where Arsenal play City, it's a draw. That weekend, I don't know who Villa are playing, Villa win.

19:29and suddenly they are right in there. It would be a belief with that set of players. Do they truly believe that they belong and that they have a genuine chance of winning the title? As good as some of those players are, I'm not sure they've experienced that level of almost like psychological warfare at the end of the season. They've not been prepped for that really. so yeah I'd be surprised if they if they do mount a serious title challenge but listen I've been wrong millions of times before and it'd be great if it did because it you know we just add to the he would just add to the title race yeah I think the good thing here is that given what happened last season last game of last season which stopped Villa from getting in the Champions League there's a part where they only need to get in the Champions League to improve on last season and if it means that they don't win the Premier League by three points, it's not that they were trying to win the Premier League, it was just to make sure they got in the Champions League.

20:29So there's a part where their confidence, going back to that as opposed to momentum, will keep them in that position. It's really City, who are the ones who want to win the, or I say want to win the league, or are expected to win the league and it's whether or not they can keep their sort of pressure on. So I agree with you, Sammy, in that sense. But I can't help but think of Leicester and how many people said Leicester won't win the league? But the league was playing out quite differently, wasn't it? It was more that Leicester were in the league and everyone thought, well, they're never going to do it.

21:01Whereas this is, you know, can a team who you don't think are going to be title contenders chase down not one, but two who definitely are. Yeah, and while those two are fighting with each other to win the league, Aston Villa just want to stay in the Champions League positions and end up winning. I mean, you know, it would be a miracle. I don't think that Unai Emery ever sits there and thinks, I'll tell you what, if we do this, we're going to win the league. He'll just keep himself in a position that if things fall apart for two teams, and Man City haven't had the season which we normally see from them.

21:33So, you know, anything could happen. I know you are a fan of stats, David, so I pulled this out for you. On the Newcastle game, since Bruno Gimeraas joined Newcastle, They haven't won any of the nine league matches in which he hasn't played. They've drawn five and lost four. He is a very, very important player for Eddie Howe, isn't he? Absolutely. And I feel for Eddie a little bit because as we're talking about Aston Villa, the one thing Aston Villa don't have to worry about is Champions League. Obviously, they've got Europa League, which could be a contender for their sort of focus. for Eddie it is again you know in the Champions League where does he keep his focus and as we saw midweek done really well and then the the counter to that is not a good performance today he's got to rest the likes of Gimerez because otherwise he'll be crook and therefore he'll be no good for the Premier League or the Champions League and I think that's where Eddie's Eddie's challenged amongst other clubs at the moment but yeah he's a vital player yeah I think he said I think Bruno said he might be back for their trip to PSG, which is on Wednesday.

22:49We've got a live commentary of that on 5 Live and BBC Sounds. Let's talk about Liverpool then. 3-2 defeat at Bournemouth. Dropped out of the top four, down into sixth now. Let's hear from both of the managers. So, on a slot in a moment, after Andoni Iriola first. Yes, for me, it's massive to get the first win against Liverpool, but especially for the team. I think we are finding ways to get points in a very delicate situation that we are in. And the last three games against Spurs, Brighton, Liverpool, we've got seven points. And probably playing a little bit different than we used to play, because now the needs and the players we have are different.

23:29But I think it was a big reward for us. As I have reflected so many times this season, very, very disappointing. The way we conceded the second goal was of course, I would almost say, part of our season because it's always something that you cannot predict that's going to happen, does happen to us. Going down to ten men and then conceding the second goal after maybe when we conceded the first goal was probably the first time that they were close to our goal. And then you're 2-0 down but the players showed incredible mentality again. the same players have to play so many minutes and we play a very intense Bournemouth team after two days ago playing away game in Europe.

24:08The only team that played Champions League that had two days rest, all the others had more. But again, my players showed mentality came back to 2-2, but I think it's fair to say in the last ten minutes you could see a few of them were tired. It's a lot of times that I have to play the same players because of the long-term injuries we are having. Well, before we go to town on Liverpool, and I am in turn to go to town on Liverpool. Let's give a lot of credit to Bournemouth. Obviously, they've lost their best player. I don't know, that's sort of controversial in Semenyo. Kluivert's out injured. Brooks is out injured.

24:44Tavenier's out. And so, given all that and the fact they've been on a bad run, it's a really, it's a terrific result. And I think, I don't know if you would say on balance they deserved it, but you definitely wouldn't say that they didn't deserve it, Sammy. Absolutely. Their prized asset is their manager. What a brilliant job he has done. Precariously, though, obviously for them, his contract runs out at the end of the season. And as you can imagine, there are a lot of, should we say, suitors who would be intent on taking him from the South Coast at the end of the season. Just a little bit of Bournemouth news, I've got it as we speak tonight on Sunday.

25:26Ryan the Vasco de Gamma winger who's effectively Antoine Semenyo's replacement is travelling, he's arrived in London and he's travelling down to Bournemouth now so that deal pending in medical should be done over the next 24 48 hours which is a boost for them but yeah listen they are a really well oiled outfit and they are the spit of their manager and what a brilliant job he's done. And I have to say, as good as they were yesterday, I do fear slightly for Bournemouth next season if the manager goes. Yeah, I mean, he himself has said he wants to sort of get to 38 points as quickly as possible.

26:14And I don't, you know, hard to see them getting dragged in. I just think they are significantly better than quite a few of the teams below them. but yeah that result very helpful on Liverpool David I didn't honestly think that Liverpool were bad yesterday and as as Slott said I think they did well to get back into the game and get back to parity but you know when you keep conceding very very late goals to lose games that is a problem yeah uh but you're being in the game and the conditions were tough um you know players look tired i mean fring pong when he came off he looked absolutely shattered and i think uh arna mentioned it in his uh post-match um press conference or interviews you're playing up against a side who if my stats are right six out of the last eight games they've the goals have been scored in the 90th minute.

27:20It's almost like a reverse of the first game of the season when Liverpool played Bournemouth. Liverpool winning 2-0, Bournemouth came back, and then Liverpool went on and won it late on. This side just don't know how to give up. There's a style of play where it's almost Kevin Keegan-esque, if I can use another Liverpool link. They know they're going to concede goals, so they know they have to score more, weirdly. the nature of that winning goal as well was very very strange in the sense that Liverpool were on attack they lose a ball it sort of bounces through and the Petrovic he throws the ball he'd done it five minutes earlier and he threw it out of touch but you saw the one-on-one he throws the ball and it was kind of like we're still going to go for this rather than thinking oh no this great point where we could have lost perhaps they went for it and yeah if you look at what Bournemouth are doing I mean they've conceded so many goals this season but recently the only goals they've been conceding is from set plays and the quality of the goals they've been conceding I mean Virgil's was off his shoulder effectively but Don's free kick was superb they've conceded 43 goals Bournemouth wow yeah but they're not conceding in open play yeah but they're not conceding in open play so Liverpool found it very hard to score in open play they only scored from set plays and that's the thing if Bournemouth third highest goal scorers in the Premier League, I think.