Rafa Benitez & the games that made him

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1:20Hello there, I'm Steve Crossman. Welcome to the Football Daily. In this special edition of the podcast, We've got an exclusive interview with Newcastle manager Rafa Benitez. He talks about the matches that have shaped his varied and successful career. A legend at Liverpool after that Champions League win in 2005 and hugely popular on Tyneside too, where he's out of contract at the end of the season. Benitez is probably one of the most high-profile coaches in the Premier League. But the 59-year-old, who joined the coaching staff of Real Madrid at the age of just 26, has also won trophies in Spain, Italy and Europe and he remains as hungry as ever for success.

2:01Even recently saying he wants to win the Champions League again before retiring at the age of 70. Here he is then in conversation with Guillaume Balaguet. Rafa, I ask you to have a look at some of the games that have defined your career and it reminds me that you write everything down. Everything means everything, I believe. So is that in notebooks? When I was 13, I was just writing, giving marks to the teammates and writing everything, top scores in the team, everything. Since then, every single game, it's true that we analyze, not just me, now it's with my staff, we put everything on paper and then everyone watched the game and take notes and we put minutes together and after we prepared clips.

2:47Yeah, but at 13 you didn't have computers, so that was notebooks? I had notes, but I had a computer. When I was, we were using MS-DOS, and after Visual Basic, and after Windows. So you don't have a room full of notebooks that you can check? I had in the attic of my parents, I had around 1 ,500 videotapes, VHS, with two games each one. So how often did your parents say, Rafa, when are you taking this away? No, to be fair, it was in the attic. It was not a problem.

3:29this is where we're going to start Valladolid 2 Valencia 5 January 1996 this is your last game with Valladolid which was your first experience in La Liga as a number one what do you remember of that game? no everything but almost everything I will give you something that you would like the 15th of August we were promoted and I was sleeping I was with the team in San Rafael Los Angeles San Rafael and I remember that they called me so the 15th of August we were in first division the league was starting the second of September and we had to sign players quickly because this is an administration solution that was found instead of having 20 teams in the first division because Celta and Sevilla didn't want to go down and they should have because of financial irregularities.

4:21They remain in the first division, which meant that you were signed as a second division coach. We promoted. But were promoted. And I will tell you, my contract was a second division contract and everything. So as soon as you started the season with a young team, because I take Antia, Antia was coming with me, Fernando. So we have Javi Torres. I take Marcos. That was for a while. So four players from the academy of Real Madrid. so we had a very talented young group of players and then we were in the first division and then it was very difficult for me a manager without experience in the first division and then we went to this one, Valencia they were doing really well, Valencia with Mijatovic it was a very good team and before the game, Luis Mida was the kit man he came and he said, listen, boss, everything is fine I put some garlic behind the goal of Zubizarreta.

5:17So I think for the bad luck for Zubizarreta, I will be fine. That was a Valencia goalkeeper at the time. Yeah. And then Zubizarreta was injured during the warm-up. So it worked? Yeah. And then they put Bartual as a keeper. But he made three or four saves that he said, listen, it's man of the match. And they were much better than us. Fine. So then they decide to fire me and to fire the technical director. That was my concern. I was complaining about the level of the signing at the end because we didn't hurry. And he was complaining about the lack of experience of the manager. And they fired both.

5:52You go home and you're thinking, do you doubt your own ability at that point? No, not really. I was really disappointed, obviously, because I thought that we were working so hard that I thought I was wrong. But in the end, it's an experience. So you say, OK, what I was doing, as you say, I was taking notes of everything and I was learning, trying to be sure that I couldn't make the same mistake and the contract that they have in second division was easy for them to change the manager. Valencia signed you because of what you've done at Tenerife what did they see that you could provide? To be fair, what they told me is that they were following me and some people were talking with them about me and also that they tried a couple of managers with more experience than me and they couldn't get them and they said okay we'll go for this one Tenerife as you say it was a great season we were playing really really good football we were a very offensive team creating chances in every game we had the balance we were we were a very very good team in attack and I think that they were happy with that so that's it that was in a context where young Spanish coaches were not signed they didn't get those kind of opportunities so it had to work well and of course there was a moment in your first season we are going to the 15th of December 2001, Español Valencia, in which things were not going away and I know I heard directors of Valencia saying at halftime, this is it we don't want Rafa here anymore, he's going to be sacked Everybody is saying that and in Valencia they are telling me that, all the journalists, but I didn't know at this time so I was just focused on, we are losing 2-0, I need to make changes and substitutions and I changed Aymar for Salva.

7:40So we have to change something. We did it and Rofete scored a couple of goals and Iliad, that was a great, great striker, scored another one and we won the game. So then everything was different. But to be fair, we were doing well because we were, I think, 13 games unbeaten and we have six wins and seven draws or something like that. But because Valencia, they played two Champions League finals and everybody was expecting something more and maybe at this time so new manager, young manager maybe is not ready and we did well, we won and then we carried it Do you remember who finished second that season?

8:15I think it was Real Madrid Deportivo Deportivo was second but that was of course the first time in 31 years that Valencia won the league what did you think about your own career at that particular time? it's like, this is it, I made it I cannot get anything bigger than this No, I told my wife that I will win the Champions League so she was always telling me you told me but at this time I was not thinking too much about what to achieve it's just to try to do your best every time I have grown in the academy of Real Madrid so when I was 13 until I was 20 and normally you have to win so you cannot finish second finish second was a disaster so I remember my my first first year we won the league three times it's something that you have in your DNA and then to go there it's not that okay finish no you have to try and keep winning.

9:05After that, there was a UEFA Cup final, which was the last game that you played, that you managed at Valencia, and before, of course, won the league again for the second time after three years. And then the parade were... Was that the one that you cried in? I don't remember that. Yeah, you did. You did. The first thing that I remember of this final is Ayala against Jogba. And then the first ball in the air to Ayala was, boom, smashed him. She said, listen, this is my territory. so don't come around and these kind of things are important the character of your players and this group of players they have very very good character in the group stage you met Liverpool and you beat them 2-0 which was described by the English press as a humbling experience because actually you performed really well perhaps should have scored by more goals and then you beat them at Anfield as well and I know by Rick Parry that they were like well okay we need to find out about this guy and you went to a sure list for Liverpool that.

10:03We played a friendly the year after. Also, we beat them at Anfield. And Carragher and Stevie, they told me, so we couldn't create any chance. So that was, for them, that was a shock that this team was so good that they couldn't create even chances against us. And this friendly plus the other two games in the Champions League make them think, oh, maybe it's a chance.

10:34We are in Liverpool now and I think you realized straight away that you were in a special place and this is said far too often but there was something magical about how they welcomed you with open arms and this was a club that needed to win, of course. Yeah, you could feel this passion from the fans from day one so they were desperate to win something but the interesting thing and it was a surprise for me coming from Spain, they told me in three years we want to compete. So nobody was telling me we have to win now. It's just try to stay in the to go to the Champions League and try to compete in three years.

11:14And then we did really well. We were in the final of the Carling Cup and after we won the famous Champions League final. But the atmosphere in general was quite positive and especially when we were playing in Europe. So the fans were behind the team and everybody was feeling something special. We got to the Atatürk and to Istanbul the 25th of May 2005 and we've heard a lot about it but I think we haven't heard enough from your point of view exactly what went through your head in the tough times of that game especially. So in that first half I saw that you were in a lot of conversations with Paco and trying to...

11:53The point here was at the beginning of my time in England so my English was quite bad. Now it's not amazing, but it was quite bad. Then you have to express yourself, especially at halftime when you are losing 3-0. So it's quite difficult to give a message, be emotional and then go into the head of the players and make them believe. And I was taking my notes, 2-0 down, taking my notes and then we can see the third goal. It was very difficult. I remember the player with the head down, talking with them, saying, listen, come on, if we score one goal we will be back in the game so we need to score the goal the game plan was thinking about ourselves ok we are doing well, we can compete but we have the injury of Haricule early, then we have to change so we conceded three goals they were really good we were not doing well and then I knew when we were talking about that that we have to change, I told Paco I will give the team talk and then take Didi Hammond to do the warm up as soon as I finished and then we would play three in the back and we would play Didi with Alonso in the middle that's Paco Yestran who was your assistant at the time and then when I was talking about that three in the back and I said to Jimmy Traore go to the shower and then we would play with Finan, Carragher and Hippia or Hippia and Carragher and then when I finished I said we have to score one goal we go back into the game and then Dave Galli the official was treating Finan and he told me I don't think that Finan can play the whole game, 45 minutes.

13:31Are you sure? Yeah. And Finan was furious with him. Then I said to Traoré, come back. And then I changed Finan. This is after he was in the shower, practically, or just about... I don't remember, but it was nearly there for sure, because it was eight minutes, maybe nine minutes after. So, and Paco went with Didi Hammond and I was talking with Dave, so I changed, I was Traore on the left with Hippia and Carr on the right and Hammond obviously in the middle. And then I said we have to put this side because we have to protect this side, we have the change of the substitution of Kiewel and we have Smeisser and Smeisser was not playing for a while, so on the right we have to, maybe if we put Cissé, no, if We put it to say, well, it will be 12 players.

14:15That is true. Okay. Because I didn't have Luis Garcia. Then that's it. We went outside with three at the back and then changed everything. And we scored one goal. And then quickly... At that point, at that point, you score a goal, which is what you said, that it may change everything. What was going to happen next is you scored two more. The three goals in six minutes. But at that particular moment, you think there's nothing to touch. Let it go. Yeah, no, no, we were better than them. We had more control and you could feel the fans' atmosphere. They were really, really worried. And then we scored the second goal and everybody was excited and we had the control of the game at this time.

14:55Because if you think tactically, two strikers and a player behind, with our three centre-backs, we were controlling that. With the two holding midfielders, we were controlling that. So it was a question of Gerard running forward or Barros or whatever. so we had the control of the game and then we scored the third goal and you could see that they needed to react Jerzy Dudek made a great save but after an extra time we were better than them so we had the control we were creating chances and Cicero had a couple of situations that he could do a little bit better so we were there and I had the belief that we could win in extra time but I was also convinced that we could do it in penalties because people talk about Carras telling Jersey about the groveler movements, but then Ocho Torrena and the all-keeping coach we had a database with all the penalties and over five all the penalty takers we knew four of them, so we have an advantage that in a final is massive After the three goals, the 3-3 at that point you still had to intervene a lot, you had to move Gerrard out of position Yeah, because they placed Serginho they put Serginho on the left side as a substitution, that was a very good movement for Ancelotti, then they have to move Gerard because as my say, he couldn't follow him.

16:09And Gerard finishes sometimes as a right fullback, and after he was going forward as a winger, so that was another crucial point for us. So we managed tactically, we were stopping them, and if you see their team, it was really, really good. So we saw character, tactically we managed, but especially we saw character, some players, they gave everything, and in the end, we were a little bit lucky, but in the end, especially penalties, it's because we knew exactly what could happen. Right at the end of the game, I spoke to a couple of the players, and also Paco Yesteran, they fell down. They felt almost like depressed.

16:47Like they had obviously no energy. You were giving everything emotionally. You were completely empty. And they just had to lift themselves up by giving themselves a little bit of sugar and whatever. Did you go through that as well? No. I was fine until 4 or 5 in the morning because we have a party and everybody was around there I don't drink it's just the party, pictures and the fans and friends a friend of mine wanted to go in the party and they didn't allow him to go and then they called me and I had to go outside to talk with the people that was there and then we were one minute outside and then when I tried to go inside they didn't allow me to go in and then the security says, oh, you cannot.

17:31And my friend said, listen, do you know who is this man? I said, no, he's God. He's God. So that was the situation that we have this time. Obviously to God you have to let them in, whatever that is. And that was to the hotel. You should have said that you were one of the Jamie Carragher's cousins. There were about 45 of them in that hotel that night. Yeah, could be in the hotel, but in the parties you never know. So it was a lot of people and everybody was enjoying. Did you get to sleep that night? Yeah, I think a little bit, not too much. And then you did the parade through the city centre. Massive and very dangerous.

18:02I remember because I have the picture at home, it was full of, the city was incredible everywhere, fans everywhere. But I remember when you finish, you go back, so everybody has gone home, and you go back with the double decker, and then the players, they were at the top, and it was quite fast. And then you could see the trees, the branches, and then the players were, hey, be careful. And it was quite dangerous, so I remember that. Paco Herrera told me that the thing that remembers the most is that you were so slow at some point and there were people in the windows, a woman who was an Everton fan with the Everton flag, there just congratulating you in a way by just being there but reminding you that Liverpool is not just yours.

18:47I remember you had the greatest thing that has been invented, has been brought here after the potatoes. One flag that was put in something like that. Who was that? You? Yeah, they were talking about me. It was the most important thing after the potato coming to England or something like that. Before we finish with Liverpool, you get home after what had been an extraordinary 48 hours for all sorts of reasons. you get home and you've been surrounded by thousands and thousands of people but at that point you're on your own sitting on the sofa having wine or water or water water yeah do you remember that moment where where your ears must have been hurting from so much noise but you were to be fair no i remember everything or everything the parade and full of people and after i just Maybe I was so exhausted that then just go, stay with the family and that's it.

19:44So I remember the days after because we were thinking about the next season. We didn't have too much money so we had to sell players and buy. But that's it. At this time it's just enjoy with the family and I don't remember exactly all the details.

20:02After Valencia and Liverpool it's difficult to follow data. But of course once you are at the elite, you want to remain in the elite. is logical. So you go to Inter Milan. The game we're going to pick from that is one that perhaps is not in the memory of many fans. It's the TP Manzembe 0 Internationale Milan 3 that's the 18th of December 2010 and that made a title. Obviously we were not expecting Manzembe in the final because This is the Club World Cup final. Yeah, the Club World Cup final. It was massive because it was a trophy that Moratti's father won 41 years before and he was desperate to win this title and then we won and he was so happy.

20:44But at the same time, it was a problem because obviously when I went to Inter, they promised me signing. We didn't sign anyone and I said in a press conference that it's the time to sign players or to support the manager and then they changed the manager. That happened a few days after but let's put the whole thing in context. you decide to go to Inter Milan after they won everything and after Jose Mourinho had left to Real Madrid. Looking back at that decision, is that something you would do differently now? Yeah, maybe, but maybe not. The team was good. The players were quite professional, the majority of them.

21:24The only thing that was wrong is just they promised to sign some players and they didn't do it. And AC Milan, they signed Ibrahimovic and they won the league and it was difficult for Inter to compete when AC Milan was coming back. And then we won the Super Cup. So we won the Super Cup against Ranieri with Rome and after we won the World Cup. So we did what we could do and it was a question of to invest and then try to change the team because the team has 15 players over 30 years old. 15. It took two years before you got the next job and was it a mixture of not getting the right offer, the right timing?

22:00I had some offers, some meetings with people, and we were close, and I was even watching games with the director. And then I had a phone call, and then Chelsea came around, and that was the opportunity. Because I was in England, it was a top side, and it was the chance to win something. I spoke to Abraham Grant a couple of days ago, and he said that he got a report from a very close friend of yours of how good you were and everything. And he went straight to Roman Abramovich and said, you have to sign this guy. I don't know if you know the context of the situation or if it was Marina Kronoskaya, who at the time, and still is the top boss at Chelsea, or Roman himself, who spoke to you at that time.

22:47I was talking with Abramovich at that time. I was without a job, so I could do what I wanted. Yeah, I was talking with them. And it was just to know me, as you say, character face to face. and I think they have enough reports and after they make a decision. From that period, we're picking the Benfica 1-2 Chelsea. This is the Europa League final, of course, the 15th of May 2013. What do you remember of that game? It was very difficult. Very difficult. Benfica was a good team. We thought that we were better than them but they were quite good on the ball. I put David Luiz as a midfielder and the first half we didn't do well but the second half we were much better and we were practicing set pieces.

23:30They were doing solid marking in corners but not on the six-yard box. It was like a diagonal line and then we were practicing set pieces, corners with Mata taking the corners and Ivanovic coming to the second post and during training sessions, nothing was right. So he was taking the corners. It was a disaster. Juan and after, we did it. We blocked the last man and in the last minute of the game, Ivanovic scored and we won the UEFA Cup, the Europa League, the UEFA Cup also this time. So then everything that you were trying to do in the training sessions you couldn't do it well and then it was right during the game.

24:09Can you be fully fully totally 100 % honest on the feeling that you had when you won? Was it relief? Was it there you are, there you are, this is your title? No, no, no, no. Believe me, my time at Chelsea, people have a wrong perception. I was really pleased we were fine we were living in Covan the people were really nice they were supporting us in the training round down the street was fantastic the staff everybody was happy with our situation and the way that we were treating people a couple of players maybe they were not as happy because they were not playing maybe one of them was not playing but the rest of the people was happy and I didn't have any problem with Abramovich with Marina with Emenalo that was the technical director nothing everything was fine some fans or maybe some players they were not happy but the majority of them they were fine and the atmosphere was really good so my memories are quite positive no negative and still I have a lot of friends and relationship with people there right okay I don't want to spoil that memory but I was at a lot of those games and some of the things I heard from the fans from your own fans but no fans are a lot of fans always I say the same so at the beginning there were not too many, after there were more of them, but the majority of them they were fine, and I am telling you that the crucial game was against Middlesbrough in the Cup, we beat Middlesbrough 2-0 in the Cup, away and then I gave an interview live, and after the press conference and I said, listen, I'm a professional I will do my job, I will try to do the best for my team, that is Chelsea Football Club and that's it, you don't need to complain about me, because I will leave at the end of the season, some of them maybe, they were worried fine, but the rivalry between Liverpool and Chelsea when Mourinho was there and we were winning with Liverpool, we played 16 times against Chelsea at this period and we were winning especially massive games in the Champions League and they won some of them but we won the important one at the beginning.

26:12So I can tell you I was going to the supermarket I was walking around Coban I was going to a restaurant and the people were really nice and they were telling you they were supporting me and I will tell you even more Newcastle I came here by train one day and I was waiting my family that was coming later from London and someone approached me I said I'm a Chelsea fan thank you very much what we did for us you did well so I have had this conversation so many times that still you say ok bad memories no good memories next game is Real Madrid 8 Malmo 0 which you mentioned already and Liverpool 8, Besikas 0.

26:52Those are games that you managed, record in the Champions League in terms of goals, and goes back to the idea of perception, the fact that actually you get seen as a conservative coach. Would it be fair to say, because you're trying to balance your teams and sometimes you have to defend, sometimes you have to attack? Always I try to say that, balance. People, they can see your team organised, they don't say, oh, it's expansive football, but you have a lot of teams talking about expansive football and relegated so you need to do what the fans are expecting from you they have the hope and the belief that you will get something that they are expecting obviously everybody would like to see a team scoring 5-8 goals every game, but sometimes you cannot you have to use the tool that you have and try to get the best from your players so normally we improve players normally we improve the teams and normally we get what we are looking for, or we achieve what we are looking for, but it doesn't mean that it has to be always defending, could be attacking, could be pressing high, but the balance is to defend well and to attack well.

28:03Then, this Valencia that I told you before was conceding less goals than anyone, and scoring one less than Real Madrid, and we won the league with seven points ahead, advantage, so that is what you are looking for. A balance between to attack and then create chances and score goals, and defend well. Newcastle United as a team, we were not giving too many chances to the other teams for a period. And we were not scoring too many goals, but we were creating chances. So when you create chances, it's a question of accuracy. And at the end, when I say always the final third, you can improve players and teams in the back, the organization and everything.

28:43The final third is more difficult because it depends on the talent. you never know what the defender will do so then when you go to buy players in the final third they are more expensive, it's more difficult and normally they are in the top sides that is the reason why you can be organized you can keep your balance but you will score less goals so then you have to find this balance between to create more chances without being exposed in defense and winning I want to play nice football good football but you have to win nobody remembers AC Milan in the final of Istanbul, even if they score two goals and they play great in the first half.

29:21They remember Liverpool because we won the trophy. So you have to find this balance between to win and to win playing well, that you will have more chances if you play well to win games. On that game against Malmo, Ronaldo scored four goals. What was your relationship with Cristiano? It was fine. People were trying to create a mess at the beginning, but I was talking with him every day and two weeks before to leave he said they're doing a great job so he's a professional he takes care of himself he's always focused on what he wants to do and that's it so we have the situation over there was that they didn't allow us to go through because we were two points behind Barcelona with one game in hand four points behind Atletico Madrid so we were in the league we were first in the Champions League and we were out of the cup because of an administrative problem.

30:17So we were doing things right, but they decided to change and that's it. Going a little bit full circle here, that was the second time I saw you crying when you were presented as a Real Madrid manager. It was a dream. Yeah, more than a dream because I had the offer in the past three times. So that was the one that I have to say. Well, you said three times no to Florentino Perez? Not just Florentino, but it was three times, different times. And I said at this time I have to go because it was an opportunity and it was a good team and to do well. Obviously, when you have been in Real Madrid, since you were 13 years old until you were 35, so it was an emotional time.

30:59After the rollercoaster emotional times at Real Madrid, you go to Newcastle and from that period, we chose a game which which was extraordinary for many reasons. Newcastle 5 Spurs 1. This is the last game of the season, 15th of May 2016 and Pochettino told me that that day you were kind of saying don't worry, don't worry Pochettino. You were Newcastle had gone down but you were actually trying to cheer him up and it was a game in which the fans chanted your name for 90 minutes. Yeah, that was a massive game so that was another fact that made you think, oh, this is a massive clue, then you can do something with these fans behind and with the city behind, to be fair.

31:41It was a great game, so everybody was pushing. I think it was Mito was sent off in this game, so we were playing with ten players, and we were attacking, and they have to win. So it's not that they were playing for nothing, so they have to win, but everything was right. The fans were amazing, and that was a key factor in my decision. So I was talking with Mike Ashley after the game and then he was telling me, oh, what do you want? And we were talking about what we thought that was ideal to promote. And then after a couple of days, we were talking about the future.