Remember When... We Went To USA '94

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1:29What do you know about the World Cup? About the what? The World Cup? World Cup? That's the soccer? Yes. I'm sorry, I don't know anything about it when you're out in the desert. All you think about is the heat. When FIFA awarded the World Cup to the United States of America, many were skeptical. Americans still saw soccer as a minor sport. Oh, I don't know anything about soccer. I'm sorry. If it's too low-scoring a game, it's too boring for American audiences. Soccer? As in, like, English football? Right. It's very good. Get it go. 32 years later, this tournament is remembered as a bit of an awakening.

2:05The four weeks that kick-started America's soccer culture. And going into this World Cup in 2026, things look very different. I think they're capable of winning it. Oh, yes, yes. That's why we're here. We've given up the drink for the last three months. So our first point now will be in New York. The summer of 1994 was also particularly important for two nations at the tournament. Ireland, competing in their second ever World Cup, and Brazil, who are searching for an elusive fourth World Cup triumph after 24 years without one.

2:45Today we're going to relive that remarkable summer of football in the company of three fans who were there, because this is Remember When We Went To USA 94. soccer is fun we've been watching it lately and it's fun for us it's new to us i don't know anything about the world cup okay let's introduce the three football fans that are joining me today we've got brazil fan edson hello and our two island fans rodney how are you very well thank you and phelip delighted to be here and you're all here because you went to the 1994 World Cup, first ever World Cup in the US. Edson, I'll start with you. What were your expectations, if you had any, of the US and what this tournament would be like before you arrived?

3:33I was excited to go to the United States, my first time in the United States. Second, to watch Brazil, supporting Brazil in the World Cup. I was over the moon. Brazil, Brazil hasn't done much since 1970. And that World Cup, first time in America, it would be very, very, very important. It occurred to me, actually, that it's quite, for a Brazilian sports fan, it's quite an emotional time that year anyway, because Senna had died a couple of months before, who was the national sporting icon, or certainly one of them. So I guess it was quite, yeah, sort of emotionally loaded for Brazilian fans. Well, I was losing, not losing interest, because this is now a blooded a bit football.

4:30But because the Brazilian never, since 1917, hasn't got too close to the finals, this man started to win racing and he filled the gap for the audience, which is missing. it is a commenter lady commenter one of the best commenters says well he died he's the only thing we had hope for every weekend watch Ayrton win a race because he was quite emotional the way he did he was come out with a flag a Brazilian flag so let's say football was dying in 1994 it was brought Brazil back Brazilian football needed it needed it and Rodney Faelim you came out in a big group, didn't you? I think 50 of you. Yeah, about 50.

5:19What was the anticipation like for you guys? First of all, Ireland's second ever World Cup. That's right. And then secondly, the venue, the location for it, which was, you know, at the time, I think it was controversial. Yeah. We were sort of actually on a bit of a high because we were at the World Cup in 1990 in Italy and that was superb. Now we're talking about experience of football strips. this was we were really looking forward to the United States many of us had been there I worked in the United States and I've checked the statute of limitations I was illegal when I was in college in Dublin I used to go over for the summers and work with my uncle construction sites so we had most of the guys had been around but you're right what you were saying fuck I wasn't big over there like we couldn't get a game we had to have pick up matches with British guys Irish guys and South Americans in the parks.

6:16There was no, there was, didn't there be, like even at a local level, there was no, nothing you could go and watch. But I mean, the attendance figures for that tournament are massive. It's like three and a half million people went, which I think is maybe still a record. And that is more probably about the size of the stadiums. But I wonder if you guys noticed anything about the kind of demographic makeup of the fans. I'm kind of interested by who was there. Apart from the hardcore, who was filling those stadiums? Well, there was, there had been a recession in the 80s, so a lot of Irish people had emigrated to the major cities like Boston, New York, and in our case as well, around New Jersey, we still had people we knew, maybe relations, whatever.

6:58But everyone turned up. And then, of course, what I probably forgot to mention is the whole OJ Simpson thing was going on during the World Cup. Of course it was. Yeah, so we were going. The day we arrived in Manhattan, he was getting chased, and it was on the screens all over the bar. In the Bronco? By the cops, yeah. Yeah, in the Bronco, yeah. That was the day we arrived in Manhattan. We were going, the guy from Police Academy? Yeah. Because, well, Police Squad. Police Squad, sorry, yeah. No, I think people more knew him outside of America for being in Police Squad and they could come. Exactly, yeah.

7:33Who were you watching? Because you went to one live game, Edson. Yes. Who were you watching the other games with? Did you find like a community of people to watch with? Because I find I didn't have many people with me to watch the match. Brazil at that time, economically, it was very bad. I think bad, not the word, but economically. I don't think many Brazilians who went to World Cup from Brazil, it was kind of upper class Brazilians. I know a story about the family of this family which owns the Gherkin here, the Safra family, all their family went together almost in a private jet to Brazil, to America, to watch the match.

8:16It was not like today. It wasn't for everyone. It was not for everyone. It was difficult for the Brazilian to get out of Brazil. Although I see, I met the Brazilians outside the stadium there, which compared with today's life, when I see they following Brazilian clubs in Japan, it was nothing like that then also America I think probably visa cost it was which is reduced the amount of Brazilian but you the attendance in the stadium correct always full yeah and but not full always with Brazilian no it's probably not full with hardcore football fans it's not like you you guys you have a huge community yeah if it was today the amount of Brazilians in America is huge.

9:06And Edson, it must have been particularly special for you because watching Brazil back home was not the easiest thing when you were growing up. Before 1970, even for the Brazilians, for me, it was the first time I see live football on colour. My parents didn't have a TV colour in 1970s, only black and white. So I went to a friend of mine, a friend of a friend of mine, we had about 20 kids there, all sitting there. I remember even the brand of the TV. We couldn't afford television color TV. And in 66, I remember we used to see, you used to hear football through the radio. We stayed all around the radio.

9:56The TV screen, it was black and white, and they introduced something, kind of black spots. they try to adjust where you where the Brazilian play or the opposition play it was not fun to watch but the radio we were sitting around the radio because it was filmed we only see the match the day after the Irish team had peaked around about 92 which we didn't qualify for the Euros in 92 and I think if we had qualified for that tournament England just about edged past that qualification group and they were lucky and England really flunked it in Sweden in 92 and I think the Irish team really missed out there so we still had a very the nucleus is a very strong squad it was maybe ageing a little bit but we knew we'd make an impression on the tournament when it came to the first game we'd probably touch on that but we expected maybe the attendance in the first game with the Italians because of the two Irish community the Italian community were huge but when we got into Giant Stadium it was just Irish everywhere it was probably three to one Irish fans in Giant Stadium that day was just incredible.

11:03Can you remember what it felt like in the Giants stadium seeing your boys come out against Roberto Baggio's Italy? It was, yeah, it was just unbelievable. And to see our hero like Paul McCrath going, I'm going to be American Baggio. And no problem. No problem. But to see the guys, but for us looking around, we're going, where's the Italian supporters? oh my god maybe they're on the tier below no they weren't they weren't it was just this was like a home game let's go at them you know there was but it was Italy you know it's not just one name it's no it was like four I think four of the starting Italian team that day had been had won the Champions League only a month before so when they beat Barcelona 4-0 Maldini Donadoni yeah Evani Evani Massaro had played in the Champions League final but he played come on as a sub against Ireland and Barresi hadn't played in the Champions League final he was suspended but Barresi played that day in Giant Stadium so we knew we were going against a formidable Italian team but like I said this Irish team was still very strong they were a team in every sense we were still very well organised under Jack and then as it proved just Paul McGrath had the game of his life that day you know But to answer your question, when the teams came out, it just was hairs on the back of the neck, because of the Irish support.

12:36It must have been so emotional for the Irish expats to be there that day in their new home, seeing their home country, you know, and the tricolours everywhere and the noise, and it was just, yeah, it was spine-dingling. I'm going to try and get a sense of the geography for you guys, because I want to know the angle that you had on Ray Houghton's goal, which is one of the most, if you say World Cup goal to me, it's one that pops into my head. It's so iconic. And he looks so surprised to score it as well. Well, I was at row one at the very top in line where he hit the ball. That was it. That end.

13:13That's fantastic. It was like, did that go in? It always appears to me, maybe it's just your mind playing tricks. It's like just a delay. It feels like three seconds. but no place just erupted that was just even when you even when you watch the replay and he hits it you still can't quite believe it's going to go in yeah because he hit it funny he got an amazing dip on it and the goalie was positioned himself way off his line yeah but the goalie didn't even really move I think the goalie thought maybe it was going over or something it just got sales directly over his head yeah this is going over yeah I'm not bothering for this yeah no it just dropped in so yeah absolutely incredible places Bedlam and then like 88 oh no we've about an hour yeah we scored after 12 minutes yeah it's a long time it's a long time to hold out we scored after 6 minutes against England in the Stuttgart yeah we had and that was again the longest hour and a half of your life but it was great one thing we did find out later was that Paul McGrath although he's man of the match I think he played the whole game he had a virus infection in his left arm so if you ever notice the videos it's hanging he couldn't move it but he's still Mark Barrezi and not Barrezi Baggio but his arm his arm is limp for most of the game he doesn't but he either he didn't say it to anyone or he just said it yeah it's kind of his performance in that game was hard as well didn't it nothing will ever come close to that for me the greatest for me Paul McGrath is the greatest Irish player that ever lived.

14:58We've had John Giles, we've had Roy Keane, we've had Liam Brady, but for me, Paul had everything. And given his injury problems with his knees and his personal problems with alcohol and his very troubled upbringing, for Paul to produce what he produced that day in front of the traditional best defenders in the world, and you had Beresi, you had Maldini that day, and Paolo Maldini actually referred to Paul's performance after that day to say that was an incredible, and Paul, it was just astonishing how good he was but like I said, he's as far as I'm concerned, he's the best Irish player ever and we knew Paul was capable of that and he still to this day doesn't realise how bloody good he was, he is so modest and he's a national treasure, Paul McGrath, everybody loves Paul but he was an incredible footballer and that day was just I still get goosebumps really thinking of it What do you think they're all doing in the pubs back in Ireland at this moment?

15:57Listen, beat the greatest party in the history of Ireland. I mean, for us to beat the Italians in New York is unheard of.

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17:11Five Live Sports. BBC Women's Football Weekly. The latest news, insights, and analysis from across the women's game. Dame Serena Vigman, welcome to the moment. Are we including Dame in your title now? You know how much an honour that is. And it's a remarkable team! And it's remarkable women! They want to play in a way that they can show their skills, so that's what we're trying to do. Win the World Cup, it's a dream. Listen. With the BBC Sounds app. This is the Football Daily Podcast from Five Life Sports. When you were travelling around following the team did you know where the team was staying?

17:55Did you run into them at any point? Yeah, we ran into them. The day after the Mexico game the second game was in Orlando that's another story the match itself in terms of the temperature it was played at 12.30 in the afternoon, the temperature pitch level was 110 degrees it was 93 outside the stadium even the even the locals said this is ridiculous expect teams to play Mexico okay we're probably used to but still 110 degrees for anyone so much over 200 people were attended to by paramedics on the day 8 went to hospital of which I was one oh really yeah I went to hospital heat exhaustion I knew during the first half I'm in trouble here so half time I went down under the stand says I don't feel well and I was hooked hooked up to a a drip taking the hospital for the second half.

18:46So I missed all the shenanigans with John Aldridge. So yeah, it was savage to expect professional footballers to try and play football in that heat. And you mentioned the players. We met John Sheridan, Kevin Moran and Dennis Irwin the following day because Kevin Moran had friends in our group and Dennis Irwin said it was about the second goal in the second half, the second Mexico goal. The ball comes across from the left and Dennis was right back. It went over his head and he went to chase the Mexican player. His brain said chase him. His leg said no. couldn't move it was outrageous you know we did well to lose 2-1 in those conditions it's insane to think that it was a 12-30 kick off like it really is it is we were sweating we were sweating green Gatorade that's the truth that's true yeah we were advised are you guys trying to sneak beer in no you want to security guys were telling us get the Gatorade into you it was vitamins salts everything and we had these t-shirts from our a local pub and I look at my brother he's green sweat from the Gatorade it was it was insane it was no it wasn't it was dangerous it was actually dangerous there was of course that very famous moment when John Aldridge is shouting a lot at what we would now call the fourth official him and Phil Babb were waiting to come on and there was a delay and it really kicked off you must remember this

20:27We can have a look around We didn't know Somebody's fighting With John Aldridge And Jack is getting involved And then we realise They're shouting It didn't take too long To realise what Aldo was saying To the ref No No Even from We're going Oh And we're going We're more worried that Hold on He hasn't even come on yet He's going to get booked Yeah And I think he got booked In one of the other games Somebody goes Oh he might get a suspension But no I think Did he throw water Did he throw water At one of the officials I think I actually can't I should have Rewatched it I remember All the effing And jeffing really Yeah Don't want to get through at him But yeah No I think he might have Thrown a water pouch At somebody well that's actually nice because everyone's very hot so it's quite sweet of him at the moment you look thirsty now let me on I think the only other thing that came to mind that Dennis I think it was Dennis said or Steve Ston he said oh he said the other thing I'll tell you guys he ran over to take a throw in amongst a whole bank of Irish fans and everyone just roared and all he could get was the smell of beer right onto the pitch just a miss

21:52is there a sort of trace of disappointment for you guys that Ireland didn't get a bit further obviously got out of the group stages with a set of results I don't think he would have particularly predicted um and then and then fell against Holland are yeah really good really good side but maybe not quite as good an account as you could have given of yourselves we made a few serious mistakes that is fair I think it was I think at that stage like I said I think 92 was probably would have been that team's peak in 94 we were still formidable and we'd beaten Italy but we didn't have the biggest depth of squad Jack really stuck with the same 11 bar suspensions and I don't think that helped as well because of the climate.

22:41I think Jack was a bit stubborn in his team selection that he may have, in hindsight, tweaked the team a bit more. Admittedly, modern football, you tweak the team an awful lot more these days anyway, but I think Jack was a little bit too stubborn. We went out with a whimper against the Dutch. Again, it was Orlando, but it wasn't nearly as warm as the Mexico game. So the climate was a lot cooler that day. We didn't turn up really and the Dutch were a really good team, as we know. And then when they were one up, Paki Bonner made a terrible mistake for the second Dutch goal 2-0 down in the first half there's no way back and you could see the team were out on their feet in the second half yeah they were gone they were gone it was a bridge too far so yeah of course we were disappointed but we weren't I wasn't overly surprised really you know you never know had we beaten the Norwegians we may have got I think there was a more favourable joy you sort of didn't want putting your hand up and say yeah I want to play Holland but there possibly could have been an easier route but as we were saying earlier you would have had Brazil in the course wouldn't you?

23:45the prize was if you beat Holland you get to play Brazil and Dallas and that would have been that would have been the final for us really yeah but Brazil the Brazilians in the past said Brazil didn't worry about how many how many goals they they said ok you score 3 I score 4 I score 3 it was attacking even celebrations change a little bit I admire the Brazilians the way they celebrate in the World Cup someone had a baby Bebeto is one of the greats all the other things are about that all the three doing the same because Bebeto, Romário and Zinho they all go to this they're all laughing this is the football we always expect to happen And it was the World Cup of Romário.

24:41Romário had been, I can't even remember why, but he'd been out of favour for some reason with Brazil. It's in his politics. We heard the rumours they were trying to keep him out of the national team in 1994. And Romário, it was, he's a real proper football. Yeah, it was his football. It is some story about Romário when he played in Barcelona. He used to call Cruyff, Mr., Mr., can I go to Brazil for the carnival? No. No. Because he would go, he wouldn't come back in three, four weeks. And eventually they have a match. And he said, okay, if you score a goal, you can go. You can go if I score a goal?

25:31Yes. What's happening? he scored three goals he scored two goals half time and he already started to change so where are you going you know the players start to look at him I said if I score a goal I score three goals and then he's got injured just before the I think the 1990 World Cup he was injured in Holland he was playing Holland so he was really someone said to him oh Pelé Pelé is a piece of museum now it's Romario he was confident he was confident very confident I'm right this side it was we didn't expect it him and Bebet to play as well actually personally I didn't like much about the middle field I didn't like Dunga style of football I didn't like Maru Shiva but they they grow and doing the tournament and they supply those guys with the ball they score it so Edson And the game that you were at was probably the best game of the tournament, Brazil-Netherlands in Dallas.

26:36I didn't have the ticket. And I was on the stage a couple of days before because I tried to see if I could see Maradona when I learned about the story about his bedroom, his pharmacy. Anyway, I was on the way back. I was on the way back. And I see all these people coming, going to the stage. And of a sudden I come across these two ladies, Mexican ladies which I met before in the upper drinks in the bar we used to meet and she look at me say come with us I have a ticket do you want yeah yeah and I went there and I I was excited to see Holland I admire the the we do all respect you guys I admire the Dutch football yeah and Dennis Bergkamp and high card it was on the team.

27:28So I said, well, we're going to see a good match today. And then two knew. And then suddenly, I think in the second half, they scored two goals. Yeah, Burkham scored. My Burkham scored. He's a tremendous player. We cannot lose this. What about your memories of that free kick, that Branco free kick that won it? Well, it was more or less in the front. It was in my side, more or less in the front of me. I heard commentators say, I don't know if it was a real free kick He makes the most of it He made the most of it I think he'd whack someone immediately before It was a great free kick I cannot deny that But I was really happy But Brazil weren't finished yet With their winning goal coming in spectacular fashion From Branco's free kick Did you guys watch the rest of the tournament?

28:25Where were you for it? Yeah, the plan for us was to go to New York for the first game and then we were relocating to Fort Lauderdale. We had a great time in Fort Lauderdale. We had some instances, one or two instances. They're all harmless, really, I think. Well, I mean, I'm feeling nervous. We'll carry on. We came back one day just down at the beach or wherever next day you see everyone in the lobby there's cops and it looks like fire department or pest control or something oh the fourth floor has been evacuated you know we're on the fourth floor, what's going on oh a venomous snake has been seen, we don't know how many there is but definitely saw one oh wait a minute so we went up to the room, no no I think no you can't go in there, no I went in My brother had a St.

29:22Patrick's uniform that he wore. Oh, and he had it. And he brought it. It's a green with a hat and he had a snake. And when the cleaner came into the room. That's fantastic. So when the cleaner came into the room, she saw the snake sticking out from under the bed. Like, I mean, it was serious. Like, they did evacuate the floor because they go, if there's one, is there two? Is there how many? They're going, oh, we just picked it up. But you look at this, it's rubber. but it was still though whilst the World Cup on you walk around Fort Lauderdale you wouldn't know when the Brazil team won the final as we say well not a great not a great final and everyone remembers Baggio's miss when they came back to Brazil what were the celebrations like?

30:14huge huge you couldn't imagine if the Brazilian hasn't made the final for a long time it was bank holiday organized by the government is a good boost for any government especially Brazil and you cannot compare it to 70 because events of live transmission for the first time all over the world in color for me it was the biggest impact but it was huge. Now we're back. Now we're going to win every World Cup. That's what they probably think about. And we can see now we can still find good players. But when we talk about team together, it seems to be a difficult task. I've read something somewhere about the Brazil team flying back into Rio, I imagine, and being really late because the players had been out, well, celebrating, but then going and buying loads of consumer goods, so like TVs and fridges and stuff like that, and so they'd been loading all that into the plane.

31:34Is that right? It's possible. I cannot say it's true, but it is probably a couple of watches. buy yourself a fridge drink yourself what sort of reception did the Irish team get when they arrived back in Dublin well they got a reception but again it was a bit like the team it was a bit half-hearted the celebration in 94 to greet the team in 1990 it was off the charts because it was our first World Cup we got to the quarter final in 1990 and it seemed like half of the country welcomed them home there was a party in the Phoenix Park but it was a bit of a flop to be honest in 94. And I think the players, their body language was, get us out of here.

32:18They didn't really need to do it. I thought it was a bad idea. You know, we beat in Italy, brilliant, but it was a pretty underwhelming World Cup after that. And I think that party in the Phoenix Park, for me, was as underwhelming as well. The players' hearts weren't in it. They were in 1990, I'd say. 1990 was special. The whole country came to a standstill. In 1990, we were their first World Cup, and we'd done so well. but in 94 for me that party was a bad idea and I guess the feeling as you say that Jack Charlton was probably coming to the end of the road and a lot of players were getting older I think the five players in their 30s half the team was yeah and although we started the qualification well for Euro 96 the wheels came off towards the end of the group and then again we met the Dutch in the playoff in Anfield in 95 and we got beaten 2-0 but it could have been 5 or 6 and then And that was the Jacks last night.

33:11That was it. It was over. Overall then, how do you reflect on that World Cup, the USA 94 World Cup, from a fan point of view, Edson? We always want to make America part of the football. So it was great for Brazil to win in America. Come back to the football, win America, all the other issues I mentioned to you economically. Brazil introduced a new currency after so many problems. They did cruzado, cruzados in a very short period and they lost Senna. So it was huge for Brazil. Obviously the highlight was the Italy match. Never to be forgotten. We relive it every now and then. It comes up in conversation more than you would actually think.

34:01Probably should. But yeah, a great trip. There was a bunch of guys from our club, marriage with another club 50 all ages like I mean there was probably teenagers up to 70 year olds like that's if just all fans together for me for me Rick and I know this is a UK podcast but before we went I was delighted that England hadn't qualified because we had experienced we had England in the group in Euro 88 in Italian 90 and you were always wary of your hooliganism I'm sorry but that's the way it was and as we know Margaret Thatcher threatened to pull England out in 1990 if they misbehaved. So the fact that England weren't going to be in a barry on the corner for me, like I was 27, 28 at the time in America.

34:46So you wanted to go and enjoy the football and enjoy your drinks and mingle with the other countries without having this concern. Slight potential threat. Yeah, it was. And we saw them right where we were based in Cologne in Germany in 88. We got caught up in a rush. And we got a taxi, you know. So that was in your mind. So for us, it was just, for me, it was great. Again, no offence, that England weren't there because there was no fans to cause trouble there. So it was just three of the greatest weeks of my life in terms of supporting the Irish team and meeting the other countries and just meeting the Irish expats.