Remembering Kevin Keegan

30:38And those were the days when you shook hands at the end of the game and went down to the tunnel and there weren't too many niceties and so on. And of course, it was at Wembley and you've got that long walk to the change rooms, obviously, that were behind the goal. so I was walking to the changing rooms and as you do, you're walking off slowly and then I just turned around and it was Kevin that was walking about three yards behind me so we ended up sort of chatting all the way to the changing room and Julie changed shirts and that shirt I have to this day and from all of my memorabilia that would be the most precious one that I do have but to work with him was a pleasure no different to everything that I'd been told about him the things I did notice very much about him was that the players loved him and what he could do is that he could have a laugh and a joke with the players but when it came to decision making and when it came to pre-match talks, half-time talks having to get into players, having to give players a little bit of a rollicking, then that showed the quality that he had over and above the personality that he had.

32:06And it was those moments that hit you that this is the reason why he was such a good manager and so well thought of as a manager. And just before we let you go then, Chris, it's such a difficult question, What memory of your time working with Kevin do you think you will take forward with you the most? When you hear his name in five years' time or whatever, what is the first thing that you'll think of when you hear the name, do you think? Very much the first thing that comes to mind is a man of the people that could get on with everybody. And I think there's a saying that goes round, well, you know, if you can't get on with me, you can't get on with anybody, then, you know, that would sum Kevin up for me.

32:58You know, I always felt if you couldn't get on with Kevin, then, you know, it would be your fault, not he's. And because he was very much a man of the people, gave everybody the time, I think, that they deserved. And I think in a period of time where there is so much spoken about, his humility, his personality. I felt he was an exceptional coach and exceptional manager. That's such a wonderful tribute, Chris. Thank you so much for talking to us tonight. We really appreciate you coming on. You're very welcome. Chris Hewton, former Newcastle manager, took them up to the Premier League after a relegation and works, as you've just been hearing, with Kevin Keegan at Newcastle United before that.

33:44Rob says, when I was 13 or 14, with about 20 others, I was in a competition run by the Liverpool Echo. The prize was six training sessions with Kevin Keegan. I was a rubbish clogger with two left feet attached the wrong way round, but he made me feel like I was about to conquer the world. What an inspiration as a player and a man. May he rest in peace. Stuart in Brockenhurst says, when I was five or six, I remember my team, Southampton, little Southampton, signing Kevin Keegan. For us to sign the European Player of the Year was crazy. As a young fan, I got to meet him and ask a question with the club's Junior Saints Club.

34:24He scored the best goal I ever saw at the Dell, a scissor kick against Manchester United, but it was disallowed for offside. Maybe they needed VAR back then, Stuart. Could have changed. Danny Temple says, As I met Kevin in the corridors of St James' Park the night before my ninth birthday in 1994, he was so personable. He offered me a photograph, which was taken with his arms over my shoulders. He put Newcastle United on the map and put them on a different course forever. I just think you have to be such a special player to be born and raised, even though we had those North East routes, but to be born and raised outside of the area.

35:03He's from just outside Doncaster. but become one of their own at a club as passionate as Newcastle United. And let's not forget, that's not the only place that Kevin Keegan did that. At Liverpool, he won three league titles, won the FA Cup, won two UEFA Cups. He won the club's first ever European Cup. That's Rome, 1977. That was actually his final game for the club. Phil Thompson won all of those trophies with Kevin Keegan in that same Liverpool team, also went on to captain them, of course, to further European and domestic glory. Phil, thank you so much for being with us. I know this will be a really, really difficult time for everybody because we're remembering such a magnificent man, aren't we?

35:42It is a difficult time for everybody. And when I first heard the news, I was absolutely devastated. But, you know, when I listen to all these tributes and people talking about them, you're just listening to Chris there. It's the love for Kevin and the love that he gave to everybody else, which is just a lovely story. I'm sitting here thinking, my goodness, that's Kevin Keegan we're talking about. What a lovely man. And that's above all of them. We can talk about his football exploits. But Chris mentioned that one word, humility. And it absolutely poured out of Kevin's veins. He was just such a nice guy.

36:26He talked about him, signing things. Never turned down an autograph. Never turned down a photograph. He was the best of all the people that I've known in football and in sport. Kevin was one of their own. Whether it was Liverpool, whether it was Newcastle, wherever. You're saying that story about the young kid in Southampton. That's Kevin Keegan. That is Kevin Keegan. You know, what's really striking about what you've just said, Phil, and it hadn't occurred to me is, I've been talking to people for 40 minutes now who knew Kevin Keegan well. I haven't actually asked a question about how good a player or how good a manager he was.

37:05Because everybody's story, you used the word a couple of times there, it's just love and the resonation of that love. It's his honesty. His honesty about everything, about his in play. He wasn't the greatest ability in the world. He wasn't a George Best skill wise. He made the most of what he had Which drove him forward He knew how good he was at everything Even to the point of England manager Knowing that he couldn't take the team any further And he knew his limitations And that was Kevin in a nutshell And you can only applaud somebody like that But when he came to Liverpool He was a star waiting to happen It was after my lads in the 60s that had been my heroes, Roger Haunty and St John, Tommy Smith, Big Yeetie, Emlyn Hughes.

38:01We needed a hero and we got a superhero back in 71. And this guy was just a revelation, long-haired lover from Liverpool. He was just absolutely inspirational. He hit it off with Shankly. Shankly hit it off with Keegan. and the two of them honestly were inspired and they took us to new levels and we did go on from not winning anything for a couple of years to a European and a league title 72-73 to the FA Cup in 74 and it was largely down to Kevin Keegan yes we all played our part but he was just that spark that the football club needed at the time You mentioned Bill Shankly and Bob Paisley. And obviously one of the great things for you and for Kevin is to have been at the club at that time, is you got to play for both of them.

38:57So I'm just really interested to know how they sort of cultivated that spark that you're talking about. How did they manage Kevin Keegan? Did they manage him differently or similarly? No, they knew Kevin was strong-minded, very, very strong-willed. I remember probably the first game against, it was a pre-season game, Kevin had just arrived and Ronnie Moran was our manager in the reserve team, I'm three years younger than Kev and we're playing a pre-season game and it wasn't going right, half time was nil-nil, we hadn't had a chance and Kevin come in at half time, now you did not go against Ronnie Moran and Kevin Keegan sat there in the dressing room and we're all looking at Ronnie and Kevin just openly said, we're never ever going to score a goal playing like this.

39:50We've got no chance of scoring. Ronnie Moran said, oh, do you think you can do better? And he went, yes, I can. Because he came as a midfield player. He said, right, you go up front. Scored two goals, we won 2-0. But that was Kevin Keegan. Very, very opinionated, but knew what he wanted. And then he was in the first team, the first game of the season against Nottingham Forest and scores a goal. and then the rest is history but it was his effervescent way of playing he wasn't the most skillful player in the world but he made the best of his ability and he pushed himself and pushed himself every game you talk about high press now Kevin was doing that in the early 70s Kevin didn't give anybody time to breathe and he was a guy who made so much of his ability.

40:47Joining Phil and I now, we've got John Gibbons from the Anfield Rap. Hello, John. Lovely to have you with us on a really difficult day for so many people, but we're hearing and you'll have heard them so many wonderful tributes. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, it's very rare, I think, to have a player and a manager who is loved wherever he goes. And unfortunately, football fans, we can be quite fickle, you know, we can love you one minute and if you leave, it's always let us down. But every club that he's been to, it seems to be, you know, adulation. And we talk a lot about Liverpool, we talk about Newcastle, but my mate to a Man City fan said, you know, before these owners come in, when Kevin Keegan was the Man City manager, that was the most fun he'd had.

41:30You know, watching that team and the team, you know, we put together. I'm sure in Germany there's tributes for his time over there, you know. He played on the South Coast. Everywhere you go and everyone you speak to who was lucky enough to either add them as a player or a manager or even just enjoy the England team will all say the same. Because he had such a joy for football and so much talent, obviously, but to match that with hard work. But also just that love of the game that was infectious. The football can knock that out of you sometimes the longer you work in it or even just support it.

42:06but he just had that forever and I think that's one of the many, many reasons as well as the others that Phil very articulately said why he is so popular. You know what, John, as well, I'm loving hearing the Liverpool story specifically here from Phil because there'll be a generation, like I'm 40, right? And so I'm not old enough to remember Kevin Keegan as a player at Liverpool. All of my memories of Kevin Keegan are for him of a Newcastle manager. There's actually a generation of people who will be listening to this and learning so much about Kevin Keegan's time at Liverpool because they simply won't remember it.

42:42No, absolutely. I'm slightly older than you, but I used to go with my dad. My dad used to moan with me. If you have a player on the pitch, he was talented, but he wasn't working hard enough. My dad always used to say, Kevin Keegan was the best player on the pitch and he worked the hardest. That was what he always said. So that kind of player and that kind of person sticks with the club longer than they're even there because it's an example to everyone. If your best player is working the hardest, then everyone on the pitch has to do the same and then afterwards people are still talking about it.

43:14He was loved at Liverpool, not just because of the talent he had and because of the player he was, but what he put in. My dad idolised Kevin Keegan and just thought he was great. I was lucky enough to interview him about seven or eight years ago. We got the chance and it was one of the ones we always wanted and then it came together and someone gave me his phone number and said, Kevin, I'll speak to you. So I rang him up and he was great on the phone. I said, where do you want to do it? And he said, well, come to my house if you want. And I remember saying to me, Daddy, I'm going to Kevin Keegan's house.

43:52And he was like, you know what? It was like I was telling him I was going to the Vatican to see the Pope. Honestly, he was that shocked by it. He was that flabbergasted. He said, what do you mean you're going to Kevin Keegan's house? I said, I'm going around to his house. and I went round and he said, come in. And me and the lad who was producing came in and, you know, he said, come through here. We sat in his front room. His lovely wife came in with cups of tea and a big plate of biscuits. And then he said, go on, son, what do you want to talk about? And we chatted for well over an hour. It's one of my happiest memories.

44:21But I'm just sat in his house and he's just, you know, I don't think he quite had his slippers on, but it felt like, you know, and he was just so comfortable and you wouldn't believe he was this big superstar. But, you know, you drove away, you know, pinching yourself because I used to watch videos of Keegan and them great teams and then he's he's just given so much of his time to you it was fantastic and you know I still smile when I think about you know that afternoon sat in his house drinking biscuits that his missus brought in you know and talking to him about yeah honestly whatever I wanted whatever he was brilliant Phil let me finish with this then because just listening to John there it really leans beautifully into the sort of the deification of Kevin Keegan and how he became a god for so many fans of so many teams.

45:12I just wonder whether there was a part of that on the pitch as well in that to win the Ballon d 'Or, especially twice, you have to be a player of great moments as well as all the dedication. So was he one of those sort of players on the pitch who, I think you've used the word hero already, So was he kind of one of those, hang on, we need a hero here. Ah, there's Kevin Keegan. Yeah, he worked hard for it. And that's what John's just been saying there. Kevin was a worker. Besides anything, he would make sure he put a shift in. But he'd done it with a smile on his face. There were very few players that you could think of who enjoyed the game.

45:55And you've seen it when he was a manager. All those laughs with my good mate, Terry McDermott. and he would be absolutely the fun the games he wanted to play but he wanted to enjoy every moment because Kevin knew that he was gifted this wonderful gift of being a professional footballer which he could give people great enjoyment by doing it and he did at Liverpool we made so many superstars and strikers you know Kevin Kenny came along then it was you know I'm talking about the players who come from abroad, Suarez, Torres, you know, you're just Mo Salahs, you could go on and on. But Kevin came in and was the right player at the right club because that's why you look at the Geordies, you look at the Scousers, very similar in the way of life and the way they look at it.

46:48They want the players to work as hard and to give them that enjoyment on a Saturday and Kevin Keegan did just that. Phil, John, thank you so much for talking to us just incredible tributes and I think a lot of people will be learning about a part of Kevin Keegan's life that not everybody knew so thank you so much to both of you for joining us and paying those tributes tonight Pleasure Pleasure, mate. Cheers, John Great stuff. John Gibbons from the Anfield Wrap and Phil Thompson, former Liverpool captain won the European Cup with Kevin Keegan in 1977 and then Phil, of course, went on to win it multiple times at Anfield as well.

47:26We're paying tribute to Kevin Keegan, if you've just joined us, who we learned earlier today has passed away. One of football's just great characters, coaches and players. And we'll talk shortly about his time in Hamburg where he twice won the Ballon d 'Or. We're going to talk about Kevin Keegan now as England manager. Just for one tournament, Euro 2000, it wasn't a great England tournament. They weren't able to make it out of the group stage, but they did beat Germany. 1-0, Charleroi, the only match that England won at that tournament. The first time they'd beaten Germany competitively since 1966.

48:02Let's speak to two men who covered Kevin Keegan's England, the former chairman of the Football Writers Association, Paul Hetherington, and football journalist Henry Winter. Guys, thank you so much for joining us. And we've heard some wonderful tributes, all right, from players, but also interested, Henry, just to hear what he was like to deal with as a journalist. As you guys say, he must have been a great copy. He was an absolutely fantastic copy and echoing the views of everyone that you've spoken to today, that Kevin was not only a great football man, he was just a great man. He was great company.

48:36He cared for people. I mean, I'm sure Paul will echo this. The amount of events you would go to with Kevin Keegan. I hosted an event for him at the Cheltenham Book Festival. And Kevin Keegan was there. OK, so he's promoting his autobiography, but he was there early. He was smartly dressed. There was only him and the security man there. And I turned up half an hour later and he was just talking to me. He knew everything about the security man who was just couldn't believe that he was in. You know, he was just in the company of this superstar. And Kevin Keegan was probably one of our first, you know, along with George Best, you know, the first British genuine sporting superstars in terms of commercially, in terms of his image, in terms of maximizing that image.

49:19but you know you mentioned England and when I think about Kevin Keegan with England okay there was all tactically one or two issues that he had but what a man of principle that when he felt that he'd taken this team in this country that he loved so much and he was in the dressing room at the old Wembley when it was about to be ripped down and Didi Haman had just scored that free kick in 2000 he just said a point of principle I can't do this any longer these players deserve someone else Not many managers do that. They would have stuck around, got the payoff. That wasn't Kevin. He cared. So a great man as well as a great football man.

49:56I remember that day, Paul, when he decided to call time on his time as England manager and there was that final game at the old Wembley Stadium that Henry was just talking about. That must have been some moment that when, you know, Kevin Keegan, England manager, leaves. Not long really into the job, only one tournament. Yeah, absolutely, Steve. It's a day that I think any of us who were there reporting the match that day will never forget. Certainly Henry won't either. The result was bad enough, but the immediate drama after the match when Kevin quit made it a very busy day. But if you were a football writer and you were involved with Kevin Keegan, that's what happened.

50:44When you were dealing with Keegan, something happened. There'd be something dramatic. There'd be something either positive or negative, perhaps, to write. But Kevin Keegan was a walking headline. He was a walking intro. He was great to deal with professionally. I've just written a piece today for the Football Writers Association website. And I've written it very much from the perspective of the media, how journalists worked with Kevin Keegan. and my abiding memories of Kevin will be that he was great to deal with. You knew if you went to interview Kevin, you were going to walk away with a story.

51:23He was box office. It was like going to see Sir Alex Ferguson, for instance, at Man United. Keegan had that magic touch for the media. It's such a shame, Henry, that it didn't work out with him in England. Because everything that people, and we know what he was like as a manager at his absolute best as well. The way that people describe, he sounds like someone who should be suited to it because so much of it is the way that you inspire, the way that you talk. And I cannot imagine anybody doing a better job of explaining to somebody the significance of playing for England than Kevin Keegan. Yeah, I mean, take Stephen Gerrard, for example.

52:05I mean, Gerrard, he gave him his debut. He brought him in. and Stephen at that first, and he won't mind me saying this, you know, he was a bit homesick in the woods at Spa in that Kevin Keegan tournament. Things weren't going particularly well. But because of Kevin's character, maybe the Liverpool connection as well, but because of Kevin's character, the ebullience, which Paul was referring to, you know, he lifted people's spirits. I mean, even me as a journalist, I had my fallings out with him over sort of things I wrote about him sort of tactically with England that wasn't working out. But always, the next time you see him, he would be a smile, he would chat.

52:44I mean, he didn't really seem to hold grudges. He's a great person. And also, one thing that we slightly forget was what an amazing player he was. Partly, I think, because when Kenny Dalgleish came in and replaced him, if that's the right word, at Liverpool Football Club, Kenny then went and won the European Cup and did amazing things with Liverpool. But let's not forget, and to be fair, Liverpool fans absolutely won't forget. What an amazing player he was for them. Then went on to Hamburg, won the Ballon d 'Or not once, but twice. You know, that doesn't happen often with English players on the Ballon d 'Or.

53:16So absolute genius as a player, but also a great role model in terms of someone who made himself, maximised his own talent. His father was a minor, his grandfather was a minor, and he had that work ethic. And also he was someone who reached for the stars and yet always kept his feet on the ground. He had this humility, this humour, never got carried away with all the, you know, he played against Pele, he played against Best, he played against all these great people. Maradona in 1980, I think he was playing in one game against Keegan and he asked Keegan, went over to Keegan at the end and said, can I have your shirt?

53:47You know, so he's got that standing as a player, as a manager and absolutely above all else as a humour being and our thoughts very much with Gene and the family tonight. Absolutely. The other thing that strikes me, Paul, is that sometimes when you talk about players and you look at the era they existed in and you think, oh, I wonder if they would have been more suited to A or B. Well, Kevin Keegan was perfectly suited to the era that he played and managed in, wasn't he? I can't imagine him enjoying football the way it is now as much as he enjoyed football the way it was when he was playing and managing.

54:25The birth of the Premier League was born for Kevin Keegan. Yeah, you're absolutely right. He fitted in perfectly there, didn't he? Even making records as well, didn't he? I think he was on top of the pups. But I'll tell you a little story about Kevin Keegan, which could have changed his career a bit, this. When he was at Scunthorpe, he nearly left Scunthorpe to go to a club in the North East, and it wasn't Newcastle. Sunderland were in for him first. I think the fee was going to be$27 ,000, something like that. Sunderland's manager at the time was a guy called Alan Brown who scouted him heavily and he told the club we've got to go and get this young lad he's going to be a top player unfortunately for Sunderland along came Bill Shankly and Liverpool and the rest as they say is history and you know you can't say that Kevin made the wrong decision given what happened with his playing career after that That's just brilliant insight guys thank you so much for joining us tonight and paying those tributes and telling those stories.

55:26Thank you, fellas. Henry neatly brings us on to his time at the peak of his playing powers there, winning the Ballon d 'Or twice. Whilst at Hamburg, he was there 1977 to 1980, helped them win their first Bundesliga title, also took them to the final of the European Cup where they were beaten by Nottingham Forest. Great team under Brian Clough. Let's speak to Seb Stafford-Blo, German football reporter for The Athletic, who is based in Hamburg. Seb, thank you so much for being with us. I wonder how Hamburg will be feeling tonight about the loss of the great Kevin Keegan. Yeah, hi, Steve. Thanks for having me on.

56:02Desperately sad. We were talking about it with my in-laws who remember him playing. First moved to Hamburg when he first joined Herzfow. And my father-in-law is a big Herzfow fan. My mother-in-law, not so much. But Kevin Keegan had the kind of transcendent quality, which meant that he was Hamburg's. He was important to the city. and yeah, I think everybody feels very profound sense of loss. We just had this text actually from Jonathan in Lancaster. It says, my wife is from Hamburg. We're both in our 60s. We always smile about how many Hamburg men born in the late 1970s are called Kevin. Oh, I love that, Seb, when something like that happens because those are the kind of things that mean the story of Kevin Keegan will go on for generations to come because people will be like, why was your dad called Kevin?

56:51Why was your granddad? Why are you called Kevin? It's a really lovely story, isn't it? And I think it needs to be, his arrival into German football needs to be put in context. So back then, the Bundesliga only started in 1963, which is kind of the dawn of professionalism in German football. And the trend by 1977 was for the best players to move away, to seek big wages, big transfers to Italy, to Spain, not yet England, but you take the point. So the idea of someone of Kevin Keegan's stature moving from a club like Liverpool to Hamburg, it was new, it was different. He was a genuine star of the game.

57:28When he arrived, he cost the equivalent of about£500 ,000, which was double the existing German transfer record. And that's been an incredible thing. And you mentioned the back-to-back Ballon d 'Or, the one. I mean, no Hamburg player had won the Ballon d 'Or while at the club before. Nobody has won it since. Nobody is likely to. Wish that were different, but on their current trajectory, I can't see it happening anytime soon. And so you have this very profound effect mixed with a really hardworking player. I think Keegan charmed German football fans, really, because it wasn't easy for him when he first arrived.

58:06He was an outsider, didn't speak the language. It's difficult to move country now. It was certainly a lot harder back then. And yet he persevered, won the Bundesliga title in 1979. And yeah, you have this wonderful little cultural anecdote of if you meet a German person born in the early 80s to the mid 80s and they're called Kevin, most likely it's because of him. So it's a wonderful thing, a wonderful legacy to have. So just before we let you go, I'm really curious to know that if you went to Hamburg, if you went to the football club, if you went to the stadium, would you see Kevin Keegan in the way that great players are often represented at the clubs where they were most successful?

58:48You know, because the Mighty Mouse nickname fascinates me as well. Yeah, Max Malz is the Germans calling. Yeah, you certainly would, Steve. So you see his face on stickers all over the city, bus stops, train stations, lampposts, big sticker culture. And I mean, obviously, that's increased since the sad news that he was on Worldbrook. But it was like that before, too. And if you go to the Volkspark Stadium today, you walk around the outer concourse, you'll see an enormous mural with his face. Slightly abstract, it's a little bit blurred, but you see him with his bent arm, that familiar key and gold celebration.

59:19and actually if you ever get the chance to come to Hamburg and visit the stadium in the um in the in the stadium museum there's his original locker so when um halfway through his his his third season when he decided he was leaving and he was going to Southampton um he just to tease his teammates he drew kind of a little calendar on his uh on his on his locker um showing when he would be free uh when he'd be going back to uh going back to England and it was just kind of a little bit of fun with with some of his teammates and it's still there today you can visit it they've kept it with all his other little doodles as well.

59:51And he's very present. He's very present. And when news broke that he was unwell, a lot of his old teammates, those that are still with us today, this little video wishing him well, there's an awful lot of goodwill. And I think it reflects, yes, a wonderful person. And I've really enjoyed listening to the tributes on the show so far, but a wonderful player, but a wonderful person. And that's a great way to be remembered, of course. Absolutely. Thank you so much for joining us. Seb Stafford-Bloor, German football reporter for The Athletic, based in Hamburg. I'm just going to finish our Kevin Keegan tribute hour with some more of your messages.

1:00:26Thank you so much for sending these in. PT says, I was the club doctor at Mansfield Town in the 90s and we drew Newcastle in the cup, a cold night in Mansfield. The game had just started. I was alone in the corridor. The doors swung open, burst open, and I was face-to-face with a guy in a black-and-white jacket. even in an empty corridor, an aura shone around Kevin Keegan. As I stumbled over my words, he said, hope I don't need you tonight, doc. Steve in Whitley Bear has been in touch. Steve says, at work, I dealt with people with health conditions who lived abroad. One guy's young son was struggling with his mum's death.

1:01:04He mentioned Kevin Keegan and how he was a hero. I wrote to the club and asked if they had a sticker or a photo that I could send him. A week later, I received a signed photograph from Kevin Keegan. And more than that, he'd written a personal message to this young lad. And David Nottingham says, The school secretary told me and another pupil once we had to go and see the head teacher. Obviously, I thought I'd done something wrong. I was quaking in my boots. When we got to the head's office, who was there but Kevin Keegan? They wanted us to help with a green cross code film. He was absolutely lovely, holding our hands, crossing the road, laughing and joking to put us at ease.

1:01:47Well, what a lovely story to finish on. Thank you so much to everybody who has got involved. Thank you for sending us your stories and to everyone who has been involved in our tribute to Kevin Keegan this evening. Kevin Keegan, who has died at the age of 75. How did a boycott Jimmy become a billionaire from posting videos? On Good Bad Billionaire, we're going to find out how the world's most popular YouTuber, Mr Beast, made his fortune. He's buried himself in a coffin for days. Counted to 100 ,000 on camera. And even recreated Squid Games, all in an attempt to go viral on the internet. But it all started when he gave a homeless man$10 ,000.

1:02:26So is he a philanthropist reshaping capitalism? Or is he just the king of the attention economy? Find out on Good Bad Billionaire. Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.