Scott McTominay: Our Brother of Naples

0:00This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. If there was a big red button that would just demolish the internet, I would smash that button with my forehead. From the BBC, this is The Interface, the show that explores how tech is rewiring your week and your world. This isn't about quarterly earnings or about tech reviews. It's about what technology is actually doing to your work, your politics, your everyday life. And all the bizarre ways people are using the internet. Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.

0:48It's the 23rd of May, 2025. We're in the Stadio Diego Armando Maradona, the home of Napoli. The most important game in the whole history of Napoli. It's a game the home side should win. Napoli are top of Serie A, and their opposition, Cagliari, are minnows way back in 15th. Everyone thought this was going to be easy with Cagliari, right? But the stakes could not be higher. It's the final game of the 24-25 Serie A season. A win will see Napoli take their fourth ever Serie A title. Anything else, and it would go to their northern rivals, Inter Milan, who are one point behind with a far superior goal difference.

1:31There's nerves, the pressure is enormous. The game is one of missed chances. By 40 minutes the league could be slipping out of their grasp. But then, just before half-time, the moment comes. A cross loops into the box towards their star player. Not a towering Italian centre-back, not a rapid Brazilian winger, but a Scott. Scott McTominay, to be precise.

1:59As the ball loops in the air, the crowd holds its breath. This is the incredible story of a player rejected by his boyhood club to rise from the ashes and become Serie A's most valuable player. Adored by fans across the City of the Sun. He was literally enshrined in a part of Naples. A symbol for Scotland. Scott McTominay has been the man that we have relied on. McFratimer to the Napoli faithful. Means brother in Neapolitan's island. In this documentary, we're going back to learn about how McTominay was made. How he grew from the Man United Academy to being taken under Jose Mourinho's wing to performing on the international stage.

2:48And in 2026, McTominay is facing his biggest season yet with a Ballon d 'Or nomination under his belt. Just how high can Scott McTominay go?

3:02From Copper 90 and Football Daily, I'm Eugene Noble and this is Scott McTominay, our brother of Naples.

3:22just go and dive right into it headfirst and have a great time. That was Scott McTominay giving an interview while he was at Wimbledon earlier this summer. He'd just landed back in the UK from his first season at Napoli. He's looking good after a summer in the Italian sun. Hair perfectly styled, sporting a double-breasted jacket and pinstriped shirt. After a turbulent few years at Old Trafford, United fans would be forgiven for hardly recognising him. What I found interesting with McTominay as the season progressed was how much more elegant he looked than I think I'd ever seen him look before That's Mina Rizuki, she's a journalist and broadcaster and an expert on Italian football She's been keeping an eye on McTominay in Serie A and sees a radical change in Scott, both on the pitch but also within himself It was about changing the way he was and I think that made a huge difference when he arrived at Napoli And incidentally, you can see that difference now when he's come back, when he goes to Wimbledon, the way that he dresses, everything about him suggests that he's had that glow up.

4:24After just one year living by the Mediterranean, with a city singing his name, Scott looked like he'd found a home away from home. Every time he came through for them, the articles that started to be written about him, the more the fans grew more in love. And it was his desire to want to speak Italian, to want to not just speak Italian, but have the Napoli dialect to make sure that he was one of them. For Scott, it was about finding a new challenge. It's totally different way of life over there, the way that you eat, the way that you live and stuff like that. Yeah, it's different. In life, sometimes you have to take yourself out of your comfort zone, and I've always prided myself on I would never want to be in my comfort zone, and if I can go away somewhere and really establish myself and do well, then why not?

5:05Who's to stop me doing that? From an ex-Academy kid with a buzz cut to the perfect Neapolitan gentleman, Scott McTominay is a man transformed, both on the pitch and off it. But how? Was it just the Italian sun? Or something more? Something deeper? To learn that, we need to go back to the start of it all. Scott's story starts in Carrington, a small village in the southwest of Greater Manchester. Amongst the fields and narrow lanes, you can hear the shouts of coaches, boots stomping, whistles blowing. In a word, football. This is the home of the Trafford Training Centre, the storied academy of Man United.

5:51Most just call it Carrington. Just outside Manchester, a sort of secluded down one-way track and the first team reserve, youth teams and young players trained there. This is Paul McGuinness. He was a coach at the academy for over 20 years. The academy has a rich history, known for producing a conveyor belt of incredible talent. From Duncan Edwards, Bobby Charlton, George Best and Mark Hughes to the class of 92 with the likes of David Beckham, Gary Neville and Paul Scholes. It's something Paul McGuinness knows better than anyone. His dad played alongside Bobby Charlton and Duncan Edwards in the 50s and Paul himself went through the academy before he came back to coach there for 20 years.

6:36Although it's the biggest club in the world, These long-term connections create a unique family culture. The homegrown core made it feel particularly like a family club. All the values, the beliefs, the playing style was instilled in the young players to then hopefully affect all the plays that came in. Paul has known about Scott McTominay since he was a scrawny kid playing at seven years old. But somehow, managing to take the ball past the older kids, he knew Scott was special. Around about 2003, we started a games programme for the 9-10 year olds where you played 4v4 different versions of games.

7:14And I remember clearly seeing clips of him and watching him play in those age groups. You had boundless enthusiasm, competitiveness, intelligent and wanted to win and do the right thing. Standing out at seven years old is impressive. But even more so if you remember the players alongside Scott in the academy. Famous one, Marcus Rashford. I've lived with Marcus for a bit He was a bit younger than me Tom Lawrence, who was at Rangers last year Paddy McNair for a short time James Weir is an ex-pro And also grew up in the Carrington Academy Picked up from his local side, Preston North End, aged 13 Though a little older than Scott, as a fellow midfielder They often train together As a midfielder, certainly in my United one You've got to be clever, you've got to get stuck in You can't take any rubbish off anyone Put your foot in where it might hurt and also arriving in the box, getting goals.

8:05We were always showing videos from, you know, Paul McGuinness and our ex-coaches about Brian Robson, Bobby Charlton, midfielders who would arrive into the box and score goals. Perhaps Carrington's most famous accolade is that Man United have featured an academy player in every single matchday squad since 1937. That's over 4 ,000 matches. So, if you dream of becoming a Premier League footballer, the Manchester United Academy is the place to do it. But to get there requires significant sacrifice. The very best players are taken out of school, living in digs away from home and playing with boys older and bigger than them.

8:48Scott was doing that early on, from when he was barely 12. He was in digs, I think, from around about 12. So that's a thing, you know, his mum would be popping down to see him and worrying about him. For Paul, staying away from home, playing with those older than him, was a formative experience in the making of Scott McTominay. It's resilient every day at 12, you're coming in and training with very good players who are all older than you. So that takes some doing as well, but I think he was able, his personality meant that he fitted in in the dressing room, he's always positive.

9:24Across all types of training at their academy There's one place where Man United players Really hone their skills It's called the cage During the week it was quite a famous pitch We called the cage And it was a very small five side pitch sort of thing It's about 55 by 30 All enclosed Corners rounded off So it's non-stop And the ball doesn't go out There's a net over the top So it's constant and it creates some chaotic football, some chaos, some street football. It's street football at its finest, bringing the favelas to Carrington. We wanted quick-thinking players who could combine and move and play and defend and think quickly, and it worked.

10:06For the intuitive part of the game, for the dribble, for the combination, for the one-two, for getting your body in the way, for connecting with players quickly, for quick-thinking, reading the knockdown, shooting, scoring, rebounds, all these things. It was fabulous. But make no mistake, this is where names are made. The big thing is they had a chance to learn off some really top players. So if you had Paul Pogba in there, this is one of the top players in world football. Only a couple of years later, winning the Champions League and going to the World Cup with France. You're learning, I call it learning by osmosis.

10:42Those performances in the cage with the older players honed the skills we would see in the player that would become Scott McTominay Though a born box-to-box midfielder from the fluid football in the cage, Scott learned to play anywhere As a striker to central defence, while he was playing in age groups well above his own As Scott went on in the academy, he ran into a problem, one he couldn't control his own genes. Scott grew into his body. He was quite small as a kid. We always used to play clubs like Blackburn who were so much bigger than us and they used to absolutely batter us. But then when we got to sort of under 16, under 17 level and we'd grown up a bit and we were a bit, you know, bigger and stronger, we used to just destroy them because we had better technical ability.

11:34So I think the same for Scott. He was small, sort of good technically. But as the years passed and players like James finally got their growth spurts. Scott was left behind. And the academy's rising star began to face reality. Would he make it if his body couldn't keep up? He had so many growth and development injuries and then on top of that other injuries and setbacks and he didn't grow so he was behind physically and didn't play for a long time. But at age 18, Scott suddenly sprouted. Growing 10 inches in just 12 months And the toll on his body was immense With the demands of academy football Scott was plagued by injuries And it's in this period where we see the inklings of the player that was to come Paul remembers taking Scott to one side I said, but Scott, we've seen your parents, seen your dad We think you're definitely going to get taller So you're going to have the best of both worlds Because small players have to adapt They have to play quicker, move quicker and you're playing with older players, you have to be resilient.

12:41I'm not saying he didn't have setbacks and he wasn't grinding in the car going home sometimes thinking, I'm never going to do it because everybody was three, four years in advance physically. But that's been the big thing. He's overcome it. And then, like a butterfly emerging from its cocoon, Scott the player was born. Now six foot three and with the skill base honed in the cage, Scott was ready for the big leagues. When fellow academy graduate Paul Pogba returned to United after a stint starring at Juve in 2016, a coach, Warren Joyce, reportedly said to him, they had a player in this academy who was bigger, stronger, fitter, nastier, hungrier than him.

13:27When Pogba asked who, Joyce said it was Scott McTominay. Little Scotty was no more.

13:40Now able to boss the midfield, then manager of the first team, Jose Mourinho, took notice. He's using every minute on the pitch and outside the pitch to learn. He's humble, he wants to learn. He doesn't want headlines or flashes. He just wants to work, improve and be useful for his team. Moving on to the biggest stage of them all. The fans were taking notice When Mazzomini broke through There was a lot of hype about him That's Jay Motti He's a broadcaster And hosts the Stretford Paddock One of the biggest Manchester United fan channels There was rumours that Fergie had told Jose You've got to pick him I'm not saying Jose listened to him But it's always about the youth at Manchester United That's what makes I think Manchester United The club we are Scott's debut wasn't quite the immediate impact He would have hoped for They lost 2-0 away against Arsenal.

14:36He came through in Man United's wilderness years. They might have had serial winner Jose Mourinho as manager, but the play was increasingly dour. It's very hazy when I think about his debut. It doesn't feel as impactful, in my memory anyway, as some of the other debuts we've seen with other players. Something Jay does remember at the start of Scott's career is a theme that would come to define Scott's life at Man United. I think the strange thing about Mottombena when he came in, and he had this reputation of being an attacking midfielder, then you saw him being used a lot as a defensive midfielder, which probably didn't suit his game as well.

15:11Mattomini seemed to have that natural progression where he came in, he did well, and he carried on doing well until eventually he was a first-team member and an essential part of first-team. Scott's debut came at the end of a weird mixed season for United. They came sixth in the Prem, but Mourinho won them the Europa League. The following season would see them finish second. Not quite as good as a result as it now sounds They were 19 points behind Man City The team were in what felt like a constant state of flux But Scott's talent was now being recognised And he became a regular in the first team Scotty, or McSauce as the United fans had come to call him Was loved by his first manager There was that famous awards ceremony where Jose Mourinho decided He was fed up with David De Gea, winning Player of the Year of the Year, and just on a whim told one of the staff members to go and get a vase or get some trophy to give Scott Metzomany the Managers Player of the Year, which was the first and last time I think we saw the Jose Mourinho Manager Player of the Year award at Manchester United.

16:17The dream of every boy that arrives in the club is to play for the first team and eventually to play for the national team. This player did everything in five or six months. So my player of the year has to be Scott McTominay. Scott cemented himself in the Man United first team between 2018 and 2020, but was never a star player. Fans tended to see him as a relatively patchy, quite inconsistent midfielder, too often being played out of position by Mourinho's successor, Oli Gunnar Solskjaer. Something we'll come back to later. But over this time, he'd caught the eyes of the international scene. Surely England would be the natural choice for this Lancaster-born lad.

17:06Well, not quite. Scott's father is proudly Scottish. So Scott had a choice. Would he choose England or Scotland? What he got is a lot of push from inside Manchester United to go towards Scotland. That's Pat Nevin. He's a former Scottish international, part of the legendary team of the 90s, playing alongside iconic figures like Brian McClare, Kenny Dalgleish and Ali McCoyst. I think Ali McCoyst was very involved in that. And I know my mate Brian McClare was involved in that. He wasn't involved in Manchester United Youth at the time. Sir Alec Ferguson, another one who was pushing that way for him to go towards Scotland.

17:47We were just delighted he did. Scott's decision to play for Scotland was a real talking point at the time. Well, the Manchester United midfielder Scott McTominay could make his international debut this month. He's one of six new names in the Scotland squad to face Costa Rica and Hungary in friendlies. McTominay qualifies for Scotland through his father. He's only just pledged his allegiance to... It's not uncommon for players to put potential international success over familial loyalty. Here was a promising young player who could choose between playing for an England team who'd had a chance of winning a World Cup or Euros or a Scotland team who would just be happy to make it to one.

18:27Scott went with his heart. He's reported as saying he'd actually wanted to play for Scotland since he was a young boy. Loyalty as a trait we'll find in Scott again and again. He made his debut in 2018 under then-manager Alex McLeish. But again, it wasn't a hugely memorable one. Alex McLeish would manage Scott in four international games that year But after a disastrous 3-0 loss to Kazakhstan McLeish would be fired And in came Steve Clarke, the head coach for Scotland Steve Clarke was tasked with getting Scotland back into the international spotlight And he knew Scott would be essential to his plans to reach the Euro 2020 finals For me, going into the job in the first year You're looking at all the players, you're looking at the squad You're looking at what you've got you're looking for people that you know you can rely on over the next few years that are going to be a big part of the national team and Scott was immediately one of those players that you identify.

19:25Great size, good shape, proper box-to-box midfield player and then it was just a matter of finding a way to play that we could utilise Scott's talents. Scott's goals and with an excellent team alongside him, with the likes of Andy Robertson, John McGinn, Callum McGregor and Kieran Tierney, Scotland powered to their first Euro finals in over 20 years. Scotland were back on the international stage. Good afternoon. Welcome to Hamden Park. 12 ,000 of the Tartan army are fortunate enough to have a ticket for Scotland's opening game of Euro 2020 and the men's first at a major tournament since France 98.

20:06The Clarkside only booked their place here in March thanks to a penalty shootout victory over Serbia. are sparking wild and emotional celebrations right across the country. It is a moment they've been waiting for, for some time. By the time of the finals, being held in 2021 due to COVID, Steve Clarke had placed Scott in defence. Once again, Scott was being played out of position. When I'd taken the role, the team I felt needed to be a little bit more solid at the back, but also wanted centre-backs who could play on the ball. so Scott with his size, his physique I had a little chat with him about playing dropping into being one of the three centre-backs And again, Scott didn't complain He never questioned my decision he just said, okay, if that's what you want me to do I'll go and do it and that just sort of sums up Scott as a person you ask him to do something for the team and he thinks it can help the team then that's what he's going to do That was maybe his toughest time playing for Scotland but did he complain?

21:08Absolutely not it's that old phrase is what you can do for your country, not what your country can do for you. And that's exactly what Scotland have tried to build under a variety of managers. And certainly Steve Clarke, as much as any other, has brought that feeling into the fold. The build up to Euro 2020 was an odd one. It was just after COVID, with people finally able to watch football live for the first time in months. And games were hosted across Europe, including in the UK. and Scotland found themselves in a group with the old enemy. For Scotland fans, games don't come bigger than this.

21:48This oldest of football rivalries, such extreme highs and lows, and everyone in Scotland willing their team on. It was the biggest game of a lot of people's career at that point. For a Scots when you're playing down there and you know the importance of it. Do us proud boys, we're here for you. You be in there for us. Come on! The group game against England was at Wembley. The oldest rivalry in international football in the home of the sport. Pat recalls how games against England hold a special edge for Scottish players. It is slightly different from all the other ones. When Scotland have played England in Euros, etc.

22:26and qualifiers, that's why those games have been, you know, they've been Scotland-England games, but there have been Scotland-England games and some. Scott played in defence With Raheem Sterling running at him all night But kept him and the likes of Harry Kane quiet all evening Scotland had a great game that night And we often use the line We hammered England 0-0 that night Which is probably a bit unfair That night at Wembley He was one of a number of players who played very well for us And we got a decent 0-0 draw In Scotland we call it a decent 0-0 win

23:07After the game, Scott was his characteristic self Not dwelling on a job well done But focusing on the challenges ahead I feel like we were more than a good match from today I feel like the way we approached the game tactically Was spot on in terms of what the manager required from us And nullifying their threats But as I say, we have to win on Tuesday And we're going to do everything in our power to do so Unfortunately for Scott They would go on to lose the next game to Croatia 3-1. Meaning Scotland's journey in the Euro 2020 finals ended in the group stages. But just getting there was a feat in itself.

23:43And Scott was fast becoming a hero in the eyes of the Tartan army. But whilst things were going well for country, for club, it was an entirely different story. If there was a big red button that would just demolish the internet, I would smash that button with my forehead. From the BBC, this is The Interface, the show that explores how tech is rewiring your week and your world. This isn't about quarterly earnings or about tech reviews. It's about what technology is actually doing to your work, your politics, your everyday life. And all the bizarre ways people are using the internet. Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.

24:32While Scotland were going from strength to strength, Man United, playing under manager Ole Gunnar Solskjaer from 2018 to 2021, were struggling. And with Scott now a mainstay of the first team, well, he was getting more than his fair share of the blame. Here's Jay Motti. It kind of changed slightly where Scott McTominay became synonymous with Fred, this whole McFred thing, where those two played alongside each other and McFred was how it was deemed or termed. And it always felt like, for me, a little bit like square pegs in round holes. Fred and McTominay, the infamous McFred axis, looked to some fans like a kind of comedy duo.

25:17A big man, little man midfield Who seemed to offer not a lot McTominay had become a name that split opinions It became a bit of a divide in the fan base Some fans backed him, some fans thought he gave his all But then there was the reverse, the flip side to that Oh he's only in the team because he's come through the academy Because he's an academy graduate If we'd have bought him, we'd have got rid of him by now As season after torrid season went by The structural issues at Man United were plain for all to see there was the carousel of managers. He started under Jose, then it was Ole, then it's Ralf Ragnik, then it's Eric Ten Hag.

25:53I think that's when he left, when Eric Ten Hag was the manager, so that's not even counting the caretaker in Michael Carrick. But also a wider discontent at the club. One of the big divides amongst Manchester United fans is this idea of how we're spending money, do we spend money in the right way, do we give too many players from the academy too much time? it did feel like McTominay was caught up in all that and I have to mention them because they do loom over the club there's the glazer element you've got a club where the fans are against the owners and you might go, what's that got to do with what goes on in the pitch?

26:26Of course it affects what goes on in the pitch Of course it does Academy players like Scott became a lightning rod for this unrest as manager after manager from Ole Gunnar Solskjaer to Eric Ten Hag failed to impress the noise around McTominay only grew and grew. And then, in 2022, for Scott, some ominous news broke. Casemiro is on his way to Manchester United. An agreement has been reached for the Brazilian midfielder. Real Madrid, what I assume he could be Bruno Fernandes. When Casemiro was signed, then everyone just thought, right, well, that's a no-brainer. Scott Mazzomini's going to be dropped and Casemiro comes in.

27:07Casemiro might have been past his prime, but he was one of the finest defensive midfielders in the world, winning three La Ligas and five Champions League titles with Real Madrid, as well as a Copa America with Brazil. And he was being signed into Scott's position. He sort of felt as though maybe that's the writing on the wall for Scott Monsomine. He's going to become surplus to requirements. He hasn't got the same level of ability, of experience, obviously. A fan base divided. His boyhood club in turmoil. A legend of Spanish football brought in to do his job. It's no wonder that the 22-23 season was the lowest point in the story of Scott McTominay.

27:50But Scott had a habit of being taken under a manager's wings. And this time would be no different. Despite this awful run at United, his duties to Scotland were coming thick and fast. In March 2023, they had a huge Euros qualifying match against Spain. Just days before, Steve Clarke had gone to see him. I was watching a Man United game and Scott was on the bench and I was watching him warm up on the side of the pitch and he just didn't look happy. People often say Steve has a sixth sense for players and he decided to take Scott to one side. Hadn't been going too well for him at Man United, it was a little bit sad he wasn't in the team.