Scottish Premiership Preview

21:43Charlie Adam:But we've also seen from the likes of Claudio Braga last season and how positive he was, a positive influence on and off the pitch for the club. the analytics can bring up these players that can become very, very successful. And I suppose from their point of view, they will look to appoint a manager that they think will bring those players in and get the best out of them. And I suppose that is a huge big part of what Rankin's role will be this season as well.

22:08Ewan Murray:Yeah, absolutely. Again, but you think about people like McPake and Calvin Miller, the centre-back Malachi, actually played with him at Dundee and he got injured there. so he's had the experience of Scotland so again they'll sort of know the league, Mendy is a player that's physical you know, could play midfield could play as the centre-back, so interesting to see where they play him, but the players that they look to bring in, yeah, it's different it's sometimes out the eye of everybody else, but you know the analytics are there to show them and give them the opportunity to sign these players in and like you say, the model that Brighton have had and it's been so successful, yeah I wouldn't be surprised that eventually that Claudio Braga might leave before the end of this window and recoup some big money for him to reinvest again.

22:57Ewan Murray:So I think that's the model that Brighton have done. That's what Hearts will do as well. But like Ryan said, there's going to be some bumpy roads on the way and they have to understand that. Do I see Hearts competing with Rangers and Celtic this year? No, I don't. I think the old firm have dominated for the last 40 years. yes last season was a different league but Reigns and Celtic were so poor and that consistency that Halt showed was very good but I expect Reigns and Celtic to be up there again and I think there could be a more difficult season for Halt this year and with the players the turnover new manager coming in trying to change that style and what he wants to do will definitely have some bumps in the road on the way

23:44Charlie Adam:Ewan I'm sure you pop into some of the fine establishments around Tyne Castle on your way to a game now and again give us an idea of what the chatter is looking towards the new season what are Hart's fans expectations what are their thoughts in terms of the squad that's been assembled so far is there an optimism that they can challenge again?

24:06Ewan Murray:Is that not when you're travelling the world watching all these big golf opens and stuff like that?

24:11Eilidh Barbour:I heard Ryan laughing I didn't know you were going to slag me as well, Charlie. Sorry. If it's any consolation, I would rather be in the pubs near Tyne Castle than at the golf. But anyway, needs must. There's a range of emotions, Ailey, to answer your question sensibly. And part of it is, part of the overhang from last season is that people are angry with the way that ended. People feel it was unjust the way it ended. Now, I don't want to get into the rights and wrongs of that. It's all done. But that feeling, that sentiment has lingered. And that won't leave supporters quickly. and I think people who underestimate and underplay that anger are going to get a surprise because the Hearts fans feel that it was wrong the way the season concluded on various fronts.

24:52Eilidh Barbour:So that's part of it. And then, as I say, a lot of disruption, which makes people feel uneasy naturally. The manager comes in and obviously it's not been a great start, so that makes people a bit anxious. But I also think, and I'm of this view, if you just sit back and trust in what the club are doing, trust in the process, they've got sensible people behind the scenes the manager's record looks good to me if you just give him a bit of time and finally an extension of the point is I compare it to Motherwell a year ago now ask you who came into Motherwell and we all know how fantastic he was well he had the League Cup group stages last season to build up and at that point the team plays against lower league opposition they can make some mistakes but it's a good chance to build up your team and get your ethos of playing into those players Hearts also had that of course under Derek McInnes Hearts don't have that this year as I said they go straight into pretty tough European ties and they're going to continue, it looks like they'll play Benfica instead of St Gallen but either game is tough, they go to Petaudry straight away this is difficult so it's all difficult to start with, well there's quite a lot of upheaval and I think people when they stand back appreciate that, but listen football fans are impatient and Hearts fans are as impatient as everyone else and they've had a taste of what can be done in terms of last season.

26:10Eilidh Barbour:I agree with Charlie. I always actually thought this season might be tough anyway. I think there's now even more reasons to think that'll be the case. But I think Hearts will be back. I think they'll be back very strong again. But I think just the scale of upheaval means the next few months might be a bit rocky and troublesome for them. And I think people are just going to be... I'm not in the business of telling supporters what to think or do, but I think people just have to be a little bit patient and let things settle down at Hearts.

26:36Ewan Murray:sorry to interrupt do you think that's in that hindsight now do you think the change of manager then is a good thing because he's not experienced the the the sorry that the Hearts fans feel you know Derek McInnes was was they were raging at the end of the season he's come in to go lads it's a new group new manager we have to forget that the big clubs they move on quickly you have to move on quickly you want if you keep lingering about last year and we're losing Devlin or we might lose Claudio Braga then all of a sudden things start to become a problem so I actually think it could work in a good way that it's a new manager and with fresh ideas that's parked, we move on and we look to the future and this is what we want to do ok it's going to take his time and there is going to be tough times but the way he wants to coach and what he's done before he believes in that and the heart's bored and the ownership will back him through that so I think it actually could work out in a good way

27:37Eilidh Barbour:Yeah, no I don't disagree with that at all and it was interesting what Ryan said that for players, I think he's right players quickly move on so it is more a thing for supporters and for the supporter base to get over and I actually agree a fresh start from that point of view might well help but I mean you guys know better than me you've been in dressing rooms tell me what it's like when a new manager comes in with not much time and a completely different ethos and way of playing that's difficult for players isn't it? that's the big adjustment hearts are making on the pitch just now and they're not finding it as natural as some people want

28:10Ewan Murray:I think as a former as a player and sat there that first meeting is key it's massive because you can win the players over straight away but also you can lose them and I've been in I've been in the meetings and what the manager said has just turned the players off straight away and you know that I'm not too sure about this guy and that's that's a difficult thing to really go and get from it but his big meeting his first meeting is really important what he expects from the players and what they should expect from him and he has to lay down this is how we're looking to play this is what we're going to do and ultimately you need to start showing that in the training ground and again the hardest thing as a manager is getting by and you need to try and get by and as quick as you can from these players so it's important the Stoogratz result will not have helped but what I'm saying is you have to like you say there's been a tough sort of season in terms of turnover of players and different things and Hearts will end up you know being in Europa League Conference League whatever they end up in it's a great achievement for where they've been now it's time can we build on that and again then they have to adapt to European football on a Thursday evening playing Sundays something they've not done so for a while so that's something they'll have to look at as well

29:58Ewan Murray:Five Live Sports

30:02Ryan McGowan:BBC Sounds.

30:05Ewan Murray:This is the Football Daily Podcast with Ailey Barber.

30:09Charlie Adam:Well, there's not been quite as much change during the summer at Celtic. They decided to stick with Martin O 'Neill on a permanent basis after he won the title and the Scottish Cup. He's been given a one-year deal with the option of a further year. And it's hard to know, Ryan, I think, what to make of it. He's 74 years old. He had been out of management for six years before coming in last season and it ended up working and he ended up finding a way to bring those players from the depths of despair at one point of the season to League and Cup double winners. It was quite remarkable.

30:48Ryan McGowan:Yeah, it was impressive, to be honest with you. It was a bit of a rollercoaster towards the end of that season. like we touched on earlier I think Rangers going into the split were looking really good I think they just I think they beat Hearts at Ibrox quite convincingly and they looked like the ones that were maybe going to kick on but I think Martin O 'Neill just brought that bit of calmness maybe stability knowing how to win games and just bringing that little bit of belief into the players because whether we like it or not They have the biggest budget. They arguably have the resources to get the best players in.

31:32Ryan McGowan:So they should be winning the league, but it's not as easy as, you know, just because you pay to have the biggest budget means that you should win the league. And I think Celtic fans are frustrated at the moment. And I think last season definitely didn't help in terms of just their frustrations at the board, I guess, and the sort of unrest amongst the stands, which then fed onto the pitch. I think Celtic missed the trick in terms of how they won the league when you see the Celtic fans obviously we don't condone it and we don't want to see it happening but in invading the pitch and how much they celebrated and that wave of being able to do it and Celtic doing it to then not go out and sort of really kick on you had everybody on side the Celtic fans you've just won the league I just found it probably frustrating if I was a Celtic fan that they didn't go out and get a big signing or they didn't go out and get a, I want to say proper manager, but a manager that everyone's really excited about.

32:33Ryan McGowan:And I just feel like he just kind of dragged it on and on and on. And now we're almost at that point where a week out, yes, they've made a big summer signing who I think is going to do really, really well in this league. But there's fans already saying, how have we not brought in players? How are we almost weaker than where we were, not only at the end of last season, but going back to January? I think they've just missed that little bit of a trick. But if you're the board, you know, if you're spending big, big money on players, you want to get it right. And I think if, you know, come the end of the window, if they've got in four or five real, real quality signings, then they'll be able to turn around and say to the fans, you know, we have spent money, we have brought in players, we haven't made it better.

33:14Ryan McGowan:But I just feel like it's bringing sort of unnecessary pressure and unrest, you know, from the stands onto the pitch. and Martin O 'Neill falls into that category, I think, when he was brought in after Nancy of, you know, not keeping the fans on side, but, you know, someone that the fans can get behind. I'm not sure whether he'll get that much leeway going into this season.

33:38Charlie Adam:Yeah, and we've seen that, Ewan, in terms of the crowds that have been at Celtic Park for their pre-season friendlies, they have been a marked reduction and what we're used to seeing at Celtic Park for pre-season matches. Diza Maeda as well has gone to join Ipswich. He was such a talisman at the end of last season in terms of getting their title win over the line. Like Ryan says, Kasper Hoof from Bode Glimt has come in and Camilo Duran, who again, another player who scored goals in Champions League last season, he's started well in pre-season. Those are two players that Celtic fans can get excited about.

34:15Charlie Adam:but there does seem to be, like Ryan says, a need for a lot more and there are still big question marks over Arne Engels and Alistair Johnston. Will they be still at the club come the end of the transfer window? It does feel like there's still a lot of work for Celtic to do.

34:30Eilidh Barbour:Yeah, it's fascinating there again. I mean, they're probably the only club in the world who could emerge from a transfer window with decent profit and the supporters would go ballistic and be unhappy about it because it's a culmination of transfer windows over recent years where the fans don't think they invest enough. And more so, as Brendan Rodgers touched on this, when they invest it, they don't do it at the right times. Now, I'd be inclined to give them a chance in this window. I mean, I think the two strikers they've signed look like good players, who especially, I think, is the most intriguing signing in Scotland this season because of his record at Bodo Glimt.

35:04Eilidh Barbour:There's a reluctance to sign players from there because they don't tend to travel well. But when I look at him, he has every attribute that suggests he should succeed in Scottish football. so I think he might be a very, very good buy for Celtic and again the kind of player that they could, you know, on the basis he then proves himself in Scotland, which I think he should do, they could then sell on at decent profit. So I think that kind of thing is smart but you would think they will lose Engels. If Everton's interested in Johnson as serious, you would also think they will lose him. So what they have to do then is be very sharp with replacements because they are key players and I think their midfield already is a little bit light.

35:39Eilidh Barbour:I think they could probably do with a better goalkeeper so they need a bit more but I would defend Celtic in the sense that I think what they've done already and bear in mind this is before a ball has been kicked and they haven't yet reached the Champions League they might not but you would think they probably will not make the same mistake as a year ago that puts them in a reasonably strong position I'm like Charlie, I think Celtic are the favourites to win the league and I think they have to make reasonable mistakes I'm not saying they won't but they have to make significant mistakes not to win the league again just on the basis of recent history but the fascinating bit is this tipping point dynamic between the club and the supporters where they don't seem too far away at any point from the fans giving them real criticism

36:21Ewan Murray:I think I look at it as well where I think Celtic are being shrewd, everybody knows Celtic's got money in the bank and any supporter will go, yeah but we want to spend£20 million, nobody in Scotland spends£20 million on a player or£15 million a player, this is big money for Celtic spending£11 million on a striker in Hock, I get he's a good player and he's scored goals in Europa League and Champions League it's a big investment for Celtic but Celtic can't go and spend another 30 or 40 million and hope that Johnson goes Engels goes and all of a sudden think what happens if they don't and they've done 40 or 50 million pounds in this transfer window without Champions League football so there's a lot of acute business Celtic are getting done and they're doing it quietly and the Celtic support voters obviously demand that they want to sign in straight away.

37:14Ewan Murray:But again, like you say, you can't be held to ransom to say that you might pay, you know, an extra three or four million pounds for extra players. You don't believe in what he's worth. And ultimately, again, like you say, Celtic have done really well in bringing players in and selling them for big profit. So what you're doing is if you pay for them big here now, then ultimately the next move for them, their profit's probably not as big. So I think they're clever enough to go in the position that they're in. and I think Martin getting that opportunity to stay, yeah, he's at a fair old age, but he's got young and energetic, enthusiastic coaches around him that will drive the training every single day and Martin will just guide these younger coaches.

37:52Ewan Murray:I'm saying younger coaches, but a lot younger than them, but they've got good experience with Sean and Mark, Steve McManus, people like that. To understand what the training is and Martin's the figurehead and why can it not work?

38:05Eilidh Barbour:We focus a lot and it's fair to focus on Derek McInnes' knowledge of the environment and the size of the club at Rangers and what that job entails. Well, no one knows better than Martin O 'Neill what it's like to manage in Glasgow. He has even more experience. In fact, it's better than Derek McInnes because he has managed previously and successfully in that environment. So we shouldn't disregard what that means to Celtic to have him there.

38:27Charlie Adam:No, absolutely. Certainly brought success when it looked like it might not be coming for Celtic last season. Ryan, in terms of Martin O 'Neill coming up against his team last season, what was the biggest difference that you noticed under his management, that Celtic team, compared to the start of the season under Brendan Rodgers, that little spell with Wilfred Nancy? And when you were looking at the sort of way that Celtic played, was it purely tactical or is it something that Martin O 'Neill brings that is just different from the others?

39:02Ryan McGowan:I think it's probably a combination of both. I think it was, you know, I think he got them just back playing a style of play that suited the players that were available to him. You know, I think sometimes the so-called old school managers, you know, they can have every philosophy that they want, but they tend to go into a club, assess the players, find that best formation for those players, get them up and running, get them winning games, and then can, after a few transfer windows, kind of put their input into it or their footprint onto the club. I think Martin O 'Neill just went back and just went to, these are the players that I believe can win the most games of football, bring them a bit of confidence.

39:41Ryan McGowan:I think he maybe got overlooked with a few tweaks that he made. I think it was maybe a Celtic Rangers game where he made a sort of a bit of a tweak in terms of went to a back three or switched the midfield around that kind of went a little bit under the radar. So, yeah, this is a very successful manager over a number of years at different clubs and at Celtic. At a time when Rangers were flying and Scottish football was doing really well, he brought a lot of success to that club. So, yes, he is all of those things that Celtic supporters want. But at the end of the day, he still is a very good manager at this level.

40:20Ryan McGowan:And I think he just brings, I don't want to say aura as such, but I think, like I touched on earlier, when the Celtic fans were going there with Martin O 'Neill and they weren't playing particularly well, they knew that maybe it was a substitution or just the way that his teams have played for a number of years going back in the early 2000s, that they would create a chance or get a late winner. So I think it just brought everyone together and I think that was probably the biggest difference. With obviously Nancy, there was a little bit of grumblings, I guess, from the Celtic faithful when it was sort of heading into the last 20 minutes, 30 minutes, and they needed a goal, they were getting a little bit frustrated.

41:00Ryan McGowan:Whereas, you know, when we played Martin and Neil's team, he just felt like, you know, I was on the end of a 96-minute winner. So I definitely understand that feeling of the barrage not stopping. And yeah, especially even that night, I didn't feel like they were putting us under huge amounts of pressure. But, you know, he brings on Oxlain-Chamberlain, I think, was for his debut. Everyone was unsure if he was going to play or not and he comes up with that big moment. So I just feel like he had that, like Ewan said, he just knows the club inside out. He knows how to win games in Scotland. He knows how to be successful and I think that's probably his biggest strength that he can use going into this season.

41:40Ewan Murray:I think three things for me. Martin O 'Neill is a big factor in terms of experience as a head coach and as a manager. And I think they've got good players. There's another one. but also as well if you look at the squad I think there's anything between 40 and 50 league titles amongst that squad so when the going gets tough and the real moments are there when they have to dig deep they've been there before the champions always come around the quality will always be there to show it and the experience of winning these titles they've seen it they've done it you know Callum McGregor James Forrest you know won 23, 24 titles amongst them so they can help a hand and all you hear about now is how much Callum McGregor was key to what was happening within the dressing room.

42:24Ewan Murray:And he's a proper leader. So I would say they're the main three factors in terms of what got settled to go over the line last year. Yeah, they weren't playing well in certain parts of the season, but what they did have is they had good players that were available to them when they were. And the experiences of winning titles were huge in the end, I think, that eventually got them over that line.

42:43Charlie Adam:Yeah, well, you and Ewan have certainly put them as favourites for this season. We will see if that comes into fruition. Right, let's take a look at the rest of the league. That's the top three from last season. Four places available for European qualification. Is there anybody that you think has a really good shot at that fourth place finish that we haven't obviously spoken about yet because we've only spoken about the top three? But it was Motherwell last season. They've obviously gone through a lot of transition. Hibs, they were fifth. Aberdeen, perhaps. Is there a Kilmarnock? who do you think could be up there challenging for that final European place Ewan

43:20Ewan Murray:I think sorry Charlie on you go Charlie

43:23Charlie Adam:I thought Ewan was going to jump in

43:27Ewan Murray:I think Aberdeen could be the surprise package this year under Stephen Robinson I think what he's what he's signed again he's signed players with the experience of Aberdeen more athleticism in the middle of the pitch you know Mayo Lions you know Tony Yagana from it was at Dundee you know good signing Ronan that he brought in who he's worked with again at St. Martin so I think they've they've brought some good things I expect them to really well they do really need to improve than they did last year so I think they could they could sort of pass one or two and getting in that top six and closer to that sort of fourth place I like Stephen as the manager I think he's you know very very good and you know now he's got his own players and got his ideas in there pre-season I think they could do well this year

44:18Eilidh Barbour:Sorry I don't like making the habit of agreeing with Charlie but I'm going to do it again I think Aberdeen will be much improved and I think similar to Martin O 'Neill they just have a manager who understands the league understands the environment knows what it takes to win games in Scotland's top flight and I'd be surprised if they're not at least 5th and possibly or probably 4th I think they'll be much better the team I hoped as well is Motherwell because I think last season they showed that a team, and I'm not being disrespectful, but a team in the lower bracket of the league, certainly in terms of what they spend, can do it differently.

44:52Eilidh Barbour:They can play that brand of football. They were fantastic to watch. The crowds went up and they were successful with it. And they've now sold two players for big money. So that part of it worked as well. And I thought that was a really good story. And those players have left. There's a new manager who looks impressive, but it's early days. And obviously they've only played against Feroi's opposition in Europe so far. but I hope that Motherwell thing continues I hope it wasn't just a flash in the pan of one season then they go back to scraping around the middle of the league or near the bottom of the league, so I hope Motherwell will maintain it because I think that would be good and probably a lesson to other clubs of similar stature that you can do it in a different way, but as I say, I agree with Charlie, I think Aberdeen will definitely be a lot stronger and I also liked what I saw from Kilmarnock under Neil McCann at the back end of the last season they were in that difficult position when he took over but the football they played was pretty brave, pretty bold, pretty impressive and I've heard good things about Neil McCann for years in terms of his coaching ability and I thought that was borne out by how Kilmarnock played at the end of last season so I also think they will be much higher up in the league.

45:55Ryan McGowan:I think Aberdeen will be the biggest challenger to that three that finished in the top three last year like the boys have touched on. And I think they've signed well. They've got a manager who knows how to play the league. I think Motherwell will be not as good. I think they could maybe be flirting with the top six. And I agree with you. And I think Kilmarnock, Neil McCann, I wouldn't say to the level that Motherwell got to last season, but I definitely think from when he took over to how they finished the season and the style of play and the way they were playing, I think you could see massive improvements.

46:32Ryan McGowan:And I think a lot of Kilmarnock fans are really looking forward to the season ahead. So I probably expect them to sneak into the top six or be there challenging those teams. But I think if you ask me who will be the closest to get to Celtic Rangers' hearts, I think it will be Aberdeen this season.

46:49Charlie Adam:Right, let's stick to the other end of the table then. The bit that nobody likes to have to be part of, who is going to struggle? Ryan, I'll go with you first.

47:00Eilidh Barbour:You're asking the expert there.

47:04Charlie Adam:I don't want it to look like that. I just thought because Ryan had to go third last time.

47:11Ryan McGowan:Yeah, a bit of a bottom six expert. I would say I think the team that comes up, I think, is always, I don't want to say struggles, but, you know, Bar Falkert last season, who I think recruited really well in terms of the players that they brought in, really kicked on and gave them that sort of cutting edge from the team that won the championship. I think they sometimes seem to struggle a little bit. And I feel like St. Johnson, they were on such a wave last season. Again, another one of my former clubs in terms of...

47:46Charlie Adam:Yeah, you can't name a former club.

47:48Ryan McGowan:Yeah, there's so many of them. I feel like the fans were onside. They were all kind of going in that same direction. And I just feel like the wheels have come off a little bit with the season tickets, with the way that the League Cup campaign's gone. So I hope that wave's not kind of gone. And hopefully they can kind of kick on in terms of getting those early results and getting everybody in that feel-good factor and getting points on the board. If I have to pick, I'll go St Mirren, St Johnson, and I think maybe Dundee.

48:24Charlie Adam:Right. Well, we are running out of time, but I will get your one club answers. Ewan, for the drop?

48:31Eilidh Barbour:One, I was hoping you wouldn't ask me that Okay St Johnson is a cop out But that's the best I can offer

48:37Charlie Adam:That's terrible, Charlie?

48:39Ewan Murray:I'm going with your team early I'm all over St Johnson, I think it'll be a tough season For them as well

48:44Charlie Adam:What a downer for my night to end on

48:50Ewan Murray:This goes beyond what the KGB did back in the days Conspiracy theories and the Football World Cup Is there ever one without the other? Well, I've been digging into one of the very best back in 1994. Guy from Iraq gets a red card for a dubious tackle. I'm James Montague, and from BBC Five Live, this is Sports Strangers Crimes Presents Shadows on the Pitch. Listen on BBC Sounds.