TCV: La Manita, handclasps & the moose head

13:38Ian Dennis:So, three o 'clock Ian, Liverpool, Fulham, you and? Chris Sutton. Mr Chris Sutton. Chris Sutton, who, right? You know that we always get Gary Flintoff, the producer, he always seems to phone, doesn't he, when we're doing this podcast? Predictably as well, Chris Sutton. Don't hear from him for weeks. And then, hold on, here we go. Where's the text? He reaches out to me on Wednesday, bearing in mind that the last time he gave me some grief. It was the end of August. Hi, Denno, how are you doing? Is there a chance of taking me back to Salford Saturday after the game? If not, no worries, I'll get the train.

14:16I turn into the Sutton taxi service whenever I'm working with him at three o 'clock.

14:21Ali Bruce-Ball:I've just realized something as well. So I've barely heard from Chris since the summer. But if he's doing Liverpool Fulham with you at three and he's asking for a lift back to Salford, that's 6.06 live from the studio, which I'm hosting on Saturday. So I didn't realize I was going to get to see the great man in person. So that's a delight. You're hosting 6.06? Yeah, on Saturday. I didn't realise we were actually going to be together, so he can buy me a coffee. That'd be lovely.

14:47Ian Dennis:So you're hosting 606 on Saturday night, and you're hosting Five Live Sport on Sunday.

14:54Ali Bruce-Ball:Yeah, that's all I do now, John, is just host. You are a busy boy, aren't you? The host. Well, we all are. We all are, aren't we? I don't think he can pay you coffee, because he said, thanks for the lift. That's very kind. I'll pay you petrol.

15:09Ian Dennis:So you will hear Ian and Chris at Anfield Saturday afternoon, the three o 'clock commentary. The choice of commentary is Chelsea-Hole City on Sports Extra from three o 'clock. 5.30 on Five Live, Tottenham against Everton, Conor McNamara and Mark Schwartzer. and late in the evening, Ali, into your 606, you'll have updates on Sunderland Arsenal, which is an eight o 'clock kickoff. And then there's the US Open women's final on Five Live and I presume the men's final on Sunday night.

15:43Ali Bruce-Ball:That is correct. Yes. US Open tennis. Yes. You're right, John. Women's final Saturday. Men's final Sunday. And there was live golf. There was live Walker Cup golf into 606 last weekend because that was one of the best sporting events of the year. I mean, that was an incredible Sunday.

16:04Ian Dennis:Yeah, and commentary on the Solheim Cup over the course of this weekend as well from the Netherlands. So as the presenter of Five Live Sport on Sunday, Ali, you might as well run through what's in your programme.

16:14Ali Bruce-Ball:Let's do it. Let's do it. So on air from midday, Rangers-Celtic, that's updates for us. That's a Scottish League Cup quarterfinal. But our Premier League action, two o 'clock, Coventry without a win without a goal at home to Brighton in the Premier League Chris Coles and Sue Smith are your commentary team for that one uh and then the showpiece game Sunday afternoon uh is yours John alongside Paul Robinson who says he hasn't seen you since the World Cup final

16:42Ian Dennis:because I've seen him but not worked alongside it okay okay you're working alongside Paul Robinson

16:49Ali Bruce-Ball:for the Manchester derby, which I think is going to be, I mean, it's always a fascinating fixture, that one, but I'm very much looking forward to that. Manchester United, Manchester City in full at 4.30.

17:02Ian Dennis:Yeah, and Manchester United and City good wins in the Champions League this midweek. I don't know whether it'll make any difference, will it? The fact that City went to Portugal, but they did play 48 hours early in Manchester United. And I know the Manchester United match, having watched it, you know that was a that was a real I don't want to call it a formality a stroll whatever but it was probably a straightforward a win as you get in the Champions League yeah I thought

17:28Ali Bruce-Ball:it was a formality and a stroll do do you think from Manchester City's point of view chaps that Enzo Maresco I'm particularly looking at midfield and then the attacking four is going to have a regular sort of go-to for the big games lineup or do you think he is going to mix and match all the time. So what I'm asking is, do you think it will be for now Enzo Fernandes and Elliot Anderson? Semenyo seems to play pretty much all the games. Obviously Haaland, Cherokee and then... Well, Doku's injured at the moment, isn't he? Doku and Jai. Or do you think just every game? Yeah, I do.

18:04Ian Dennis:Yeah, I think with all of them. I mean, he's got an alternative, really. He'll have to rotate it. Top from Haaland, really. Haaland's obviously going to play in all of the big games. And I think then it'll depend, won't it, on who's in the best form at the time. You know, that's the benefit of competition for places, I suppose, from their point of view. What is remarkable, though, and I don't know if you've started your notes yet, John, but Phil Foden hasn't scored a goal in 2026. Amazing, isn't it? He's gone 34 games without a goal. But they've got so many different options, haven't they? You know, with Fernandes to play deep, play a bit further forward.

18:46And he certainly did that when Anderson came on. So he has got that ability to tweak the system. They've got the results so far, haven't they?

18:54Ian Dennis:But not really settled yet, I would say, into how things will be under the new manager. Is that fair? Yeah. But Erling Haaland was saying on his YouTube channel during the week as well that he doesn't feel... I got told about it. I was too busy doing my prep otherwise. with all of your social media that you've got these days you know you know i don't know how you manage it all do you have somebody doing it for you no no i haven't haven't gone down that road just as yet unlike unlike others what's the new one that you've got well i joined instagram in the uh in the summer and how's that going i'll be honest with you i don't know what i'm doing with it i haven't got a clue so um and i don't get somebody to manage it for you yeah yeah I don't post on a regular basis.

19:46But anyway, the point going back to Erling Haaland before he distracted me was he obviously missed the preseason tour to the Far East. He didn't return to training until mid-August. So in many ways, he fears that he says he'll get to speed with the fitness. But he was saying that, you know, mentally, the mental fatigue about playing so much football and not having a proper break. and Enzo Maresco was saying at some stage we'll have to give him, you know, he'll either have a week off or he'll miss a game because otherwise he fears burnout. Very good.

20:20Ian Dennis:So Manchester United, Manchester City, do not miss that. Five Live, 4.30 Sunday afternoon. Leeds Newcastle playing on Monday night. So there'll be updates on that into the Monday Night Club with Mark Chapman, Chris Sutton, Rory Smith and Shea Given this week. On this podcast, we still have the clash of the commentators and the great glossary to come, as well as our unintended pub name of the week, which is a very good one this week, I must say. But onto the correspondence, Stephen from Glasgow says, as an Old Firm fan, I was going to ask, what is the craziest local derby you guys have ever commentated on?

21:01Ian Dennis:Bearing in mind, obviously Rangers and Celtic are going to play each other midday kickoff Sunday in the Scottish League Cup quarterfinal. What would you propose you two?

21:12Ali Bruce-Ball:Craziest is the sort of specific word in the question. The ones I used to enjoy, and they came early in my commentary career, were Bristol City, Bristol Rovers derbies when I worked at BBC Radio Bristol. because, you know, people wouldn't immediately think of those as big derbies because of certainly the level that both of those clubs were playing at, you know, when I was commentating on them. But, you know, the passion, the ferocity, the intensity and all of that was there. And, you know, Ashton Gate, as was, used to commentate in a very rickety, narrow sort of enclosed press box in there. Memorial Stadium, obviously, for the Bristol Rovers home games.

22:01Ali Bruce-Ball:But I do remember doing one of those at Ashton Gate in December, which I think was a 3-1 or 3-2 to Bristol City. And it was absolutely bouncing. I mean, both sets of fans, night game, a lot of fun. Used to enjoy those, used to enjoy those. Well, I always used to love the old firm when they had the full allocation of away supporters. I can remember being at Ibrox and there was something like 6 ,000, 7 ,000 Celtic fans, which I thought always added to the occasion. But I, again, like Ali, would have to go back to the very early stages of my career. So I'm thinking mid-90s, Roca Park, Sunderland, Newcastle.

22:40The intensity, the hatred between the two sets of supporters and the atmosphere was just something like I don't think I'd ever experienced. And if you recall, there was a paddock that used to run in front of the press box. and I remember this Sunderland fan once pulling himself up to hurl abuse at McMartin who was working for the the local radio station at the time Metro Radio and I was working for Radio Newcastle and it it was it was a real eye-opener I've got to say from one of my first encounters working on a weir Tyne derby or a Tyne weir derby that the passion that both sets of supporters had was, it's still, I can still remember it quite vividly.

23:32Ian Dennis:I'd agree with that. I've got similar experience, Roker Park, Sunderland, Newcastle. The one that comes to mind as well is Birmingham City-Aston Villa because I was commentating on the Peter Enkelman match and that may well have been my first Birmingham-Aston Villa that I'd done and I remember thinking, wow, this is, because St Andrews, which can be one of the noisiest places that you go to. It can be rapid there, can't it? But I mean, every derby has got its passion, hasn't it? And even think back to last season, that extraordinary final derby match at Goodison Park, season before last, that was an amazing finish, an amazing match, the atmosphere, and everything that went into that and how it kicked off.

24:21Ian Dennis:That will definitely stay in my memory. that one yeah the derby i'd like to do and we wouldn't obviously do commentary on it but it's on my bucket list is red star partisan in belgrade i would i would like to uh i think that would be white hot in terms of an atmosphere who was i talking to oh yes um a friend of mine who i got to know in the summer who who covered who worked for brazilian tv and there were there were a team of them who moved around and they were covering England you see so we'd see them every time that we covered an England match anyway at Arsenal last week I got a tap on my shoulder and here she is, she's got a job covering the Premier League and so we were talking about the kind of things that she'd encountered, we were talking about what it was like in Mexico as well and I was saying well you'll have some real experiences here and she said yeah well I've covered football in Argentina so I've done Boca Juniors against River Plate to which I thought ah right yeah In that case, I'm not sure there's much I can tell you about hostile environments.

25:28Ian Dennis:So that's good. Thanks very much to Stephen for that. It's always good talking about derby matches, isn't it? And whenever we have this conversation, different memories will come up. But listen in for this one, Ali. Only on TCV would we get correspondence about ear infections. And this is after Ali got, was it swimmer's ear when you were on holiday? Is that what you called it?

25:51Ali Bruce-Ball:Well, I think so, John, because it came from, I mean, I remember this as a kid. It came from spending a lot of time in the swimming pool.

25:57Ian Dennis:Anyway, another Ali, Ali in Coventry, says, Hi, TCB team. I'm a Coventry City season ticket holder and recently drove to watch the Sky Blues play away to Plymouth in the Carabao Cup. I stayed overnight at a friend's house, says Ali, but woke up the following morning dizzy, nauseous, deaf in my left ear, unable to walk unaided. It was so bad my two grown-up sons had to drive to Devon to bring me and my car back home to Coventry. Suffice to say, I missed our 25-year Premier League homecoming match against Hull City and our away match at Manchester City. So I've really depended on BBC Radio commentary to follow along in my other ear.

26:42Ian Dennis:No doubt, Ali, that neither of us will get a sympathetic ear from Herr Chapman! Exclamation mark! brackets no pun intended hoping i get back to seeing the real sky blues live soon so i think

26:58Ali Bruce-Ball:i'm safe to say my my my situation has cleared up i can't believe how much time we're spending on this uh i don't think it was labyrinthitis so i'm just going to keep going as i was i'm sure all of

27:07Ian Dennis:us would um wish the other alley in coventry the uh the best with that um we've also got uh an email from West Ham fan Keith who says, hi gents, love the podcast. It completes my football watching stroke listening experience. When I'm at a game, I still turn on five live for updates at halftime. Well done for getting connection for that. I'd also never heard the term polka used for a player scoring four goals. I'm lucky to support the Hammers, an old enough to have seen players score five and six goals in a match. Five by Brian Dia in 20 minutes against West Brom, Easter 1965, and six by Sir Geoff Hurst against Sunderland in 1968.

27:52Ian Dennis:A game where two future Knights of the Realm scored, says Keith. Geoff Hurst and also Trevor Bruker. Now, how often has that happened? my question is what is the name if you score five or six goals in one game we've got some answers

28:10Ali Bruce-Ball:here john from the internet by the way am i right in saying in terms of premier league history and that only starts in in 1992 i know have we had a double hat trick or is five the most in one game it's five isn't it i can't think of a player that scored six or not just the premier league ali i I don't think we've had a double hat-trick in the Champions League. No. No. No.

28:37Yeah. Erling Haaland scored five. Yeah. Against Leipzig, Messi, Adriano. But I don't think we've had a double hat-trick in the Champions League. Okay.

28:49Ali Bruce-Ball:Okay. But, John, the answer to this question is, and again, this is just from a quick search on the internet, five goals apparently known as a glut a re-poker don't love either of those or a manita meaning little hand in Spanish so representing five fingers I quite like that

29:11Ian Dennis:I've not heard that one have either of you heard of manita no

29:17Ali Bruce-Ball:the five goal list from Premier League football Andy Cole against Ipswich Alan Shearer Newcastle United against Sheffield Wednesday September 99 I saw Jermaine Defoe do it against Wigan at White Hart Lane he scored 5, I think that was 9-1 that game Berbatov did it for United against Blackburn and Sergio Aguero Manchester City against Newcastle, there you go I was there for that one as well that was Steve McLaren's Newcastle United who I think took the lead that day

29:48Ian Dennis:This from Sam in County Down who I think is fishing to be read out on the podcast as Sam knows we'll always read out messages from our younger listeners. Sam says, hi TCV. I look forward to TCV every Friday. I always listen to it while I do my Friday homework. I don't think I would do it if it wasn't for TCV. Keep up the good work and keep up the homework. Sam. Friday homework. I always thought you'd have the day off from doing homework on a Friday. I always used to do my homework on the Sunday, going back to school on the Monday. That surprises me, knowing you as I do now. Well, I actually did homework.

30:26Ian Dennis:Well, no, no. I thought you would be a Friday homework. And you know when I would do mine? You'd do yours Saturday morning. What, with my reputation for always doing things well in advance of time? Yeah. You'd do yours Sunday night. I often did my homework on Monday morning. I'd get up early and do it on Monday morning.

30:44Ali Bruce-Ball:The other thing I think about that, I've no longer got the capacity to listen to speech radio and do my prep at the same time i just can't concentrate that's too many words and thoughts and it's slightly annoying because when something like the solheim cup is on as it is at the moment or tms um you know i just i just it really slows my work down if i'm listening to tms i love it but i just you know i just need quiet now i just need yeah yeah well i would

31:15Ian Dennis:And again, this is very niche, but I suppose that's what this podcast is for in terms of commentators preparation. But I can do my player notes while I'm listening to speech radio. But when I do the more complicated stuff about team records, facts and statistics, then I can't listen to speech radio then. I do that with quiet.

31:38Ali Bruce-Ball:That actually makes sense to me, John. that does make sense because the initial bit of player notes is just writing numbers names ages caps goals yeah i you know i get that i think i could probably manage that yeah i had something in midweek when i was in porto so on the day of the game i i look at my notes that i've already done go through them with the uh the highlighter and i'll have a little siesta before going off to the game but when i was going through with my highlighter i don't know if this has happened to you two there was a word that i just could not read and i was thinking to myself what does that say?

32:10And I looked at it. I was squinting at it. I put it under the light. And for the life of me, I must have spent about 10 minutes thinking I couldn't even read my own writing. I thought, bloody hell, what does this say? And in the end, I actually gave up on it, went back to it. And then I thought, ah, that's what it is. And it was leaders. I've written down leaders. Yeah. But it didn't half wind me up.

32:36Ali Bruce-Ball:So you're going to need to employ someone now to do your Insta and actually handwrite your notes for you. You're going to have to dictate your notes so you can read them.

32:43Ian Dennis:You're sounding like him now. Well, applications for that lucrative role to tcv at bbc.co.uk.

33:06Ali Bruce-Ball:strength to strength. It's the kind of team you don't want to be facing. From managerial merry-go-rounds to unforgettable moments. Back to his best, just wanting the ball, I'll sort it out, no problem. Remarkable stories and the biggest talking points from across European football. This pressure is on every manager in the league. The expectation is high. Subscribe now and don't miss an episode. Search EuroLeagues on BBC Sounds.

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35:58Ali Bruce-Ball:the commentators view on the football daily with Alistair Bruce Ball John Murray and Ian Dennis right uh I think it's time thank you very much for all the correspondence by the way and we've still got unintended pub night to come and the great glossary of football commentary but it is time for um when you're not playing it our favorite feature uh on the pod when you are playing it the least favorite feature on the pod because you're in the spotlight you're under pressure it's time for clash of the commentators a chance for ian here to get his first point on the board this season the league table after john tasted defeat last week in a in a humdinger actually players to have left chelsea this summer went to a tiebreaker uh i managed to nick that so i'm two from two john is one from two and deno so far ian is zero from two so john and ian today are going to take turns to answer a question and give as many correct answers as they can in 30 seconds.

36:58Ian Dennis:However, Ali, when you say humdinger last week, we've had an email into the TCB inbox from Ian, which is titled, Justice for John. Wasn't me, by the way. And he says, no, not that one. He says, good morning, team. And it is indeed morning as we're recording this. So good morning to you, Ian. I've just been enjoying your latest episode and although I am a fan of ABB I would like to raise a query around the scoring at the last clash of the commentators where you had to name the 39 Chelsea departures this summer Was Robert Sanchez included in ABB's score? If so, did he really say Robert Sanchez? It sounded at first listen that he questioned whether Sanchez had left but didn't sound like he committed to him as an answer Just thought I would raise it for debate so let's have a listen Kukureya

37:54Ali Bruce-Ball:Robert Sanchez is he gone? I can't remember if he's gone well so what I would say there is a couple of things one that is that's a tactic I've learned from Chris Sutton because that's the way he plays those games where he's looking for confirmation from people so then if it's wrong I mean you can't actually do it in Clash of the Commentators but if it's wrong he'll then claim he didn't say it so I agree with that I think I did say it I think it was a rhetorical question to myself. I think I did give it as an answer. I feel it would be very harsh to have it redacted and removed from the competition.

38:27Ali Bruce-Ball:But, you know, I'm happy to go with whatever we decide. Well, no, I don't think that should happen. But I've got to say that that is a technique that you have used in the past. So therefore, if that was to be removed last week, you'd then have to maybe go back. And the first season of TCV, when you were the champion, you'd then have to strip you of that title as well. And I wouldn't go down that avenue. Well, it's been a theme of the week, hasn't it?

38:58Ian Dennis:Raising the possibility of titles being stripped. And actually, the Bolton fandom says, I'm sorry to say, John, but I doubt there will be any official ruling from Lausanne coming to your aid this week. And of course, last season, we did have that tremendous piece of work. That wasn't from Dom, was it? Or was that from someone else? It was, yeah. Was it? It was Dom who actually did the, which was a brilliant piece of work. He had too much time on his hands, did Dom. He had too much time. And he obviously hasn't got enough time on his hands now. But I think on this occasion, I will hold up my hand.

39:39Ali Bruce-Ball:Okay. I will also, I'll take a yellow card on that. I've got my warning. I won't do that again. I will not do that again. Okay.

39:45Ian Dennis:You have well and truly had a shot across your bows.

39:48Ali Bruce-Ball:That's a totting up process, isn't it? The next one, that's it. That's it. Right, okay.

39:53Ian Dennis:And you don't want to do a Christos solace either if you fall to the ground waving an imaginary yellow card.

40:00Ali Bruce-Ball:Right, so Clash of the Commentators today, who would like to go first?

40:04Ian Dennis:Well, I went first last week, so Ian, do you want to go first? Okay.

40:10Ali Bruce-Ball:So Ian, here we go. Again, this is John's commentary game, this one. So, you know, do we make him the favourite? Our Sunday 4.30 is the Manchester derby. United won this exact fixture last season 2-0, but they've not beaten City twice in a row at Old Trafford in the Premier League since winning three in a row there from 2009 to 2011. So those dates are absolutely key. We need you to name any United or City player to have featured in those three Premier League derbies at Old Trafford. So they could have played for United or City between 2009 and 2011. And apparently double points for each goal scorer you can name as well.

40:54Ali Bruce-Ball:Any player for either side in that hat-trick of Manchester United wins. Your time starts now. Blimey. Verbetov, Rooney.

41:10Van der Sar Aguero Silver

41:21No, no, that's too soon. Damn. Giggs Oh, it's woeful.

41:32Ali Bruce-Ball:I don't think that's... No, I don't think that's too bad. I hate these ones. I hate these having to go back to a date and think of squads and players. I think these are really difficult. I've got it here. Berbatov correct. Rooney correct. Van der Sar correct. You're right about Aguera. That was too early. Silva correct. Giggs correct. That's five correct answers. And knowing how John can sometimes, you know, fall over in a big... Were any of them goal scorers? Oh, good question. Rooney's double points. David Silva's double points. Great question. Yes, two of them. That's it. Yeah, so that's not bad.

42:10Ali Bruce-Ball:I think that's not bad. I'm going to put my neck on the line here and say, you're going to win this. Right, let's get him back. Let's get him back. Let's wave at him. Here we go, John. Here he comes. Before he comes back, though. Oh, hang on. He's about to plug in. All right, yeah. Yeah. I think I know what you're going to say. I'm back. He's back. He's back. So hush, hush, Ian. Here we go then, John. The game you're commentating on Sunday, 4.35 live on BBC Sounds, is the Manchester Derby. Manchester United won this exact fixture last season by two goals to nil, but they've not beaten City twice in a row at Old Trafford in the Premier League since they won three in a row there from 2009 to 2011.

42:48Ali Bruce-Ball:So we need you to name any United or City player to have featured in those three Premier League derbies at Old Trafford. So key dates between 2009 and 2011. and there's double points today for each goal scorer you name. So if any of the players you name scored, that is double points. Any player for either side in those three Manchester United wins between 2009-2011 and your time starts now.

43:17Ian Dennis:Okay, Rooney, Jekyll, Tevez, Ronaldo, Berbatov, Aguero, Company, um uh also Manchester United midfielders um schools um Rashford

43:50Ali Bruce-Ball:so John definitely fired off more names definitely fired off more names but was he accurate enough with them? So, what I can tell you is that Ian scored, John, Ian scored seven points by saying Berbatov, Rooney, Van der Sar, David Silva and Ryan Giggs. Rooney and David Silva were both goalscorers, so that got him up to seven points. From your answers, we've got Rooney, so that's worth two points, uh djeko correct answer came off the bench i can see in one of the games correct answer for one point tevez correct answer and scored so what's that you're up to one two three four five ronaldo correct answer and scored seven berbatov eight company nine skulls 10 he's absolutely walked it he's won it by a country mile and i said after deno's go i thought deno might win that that's very good now that well congratulations first of all thanks ian thanks ian that's that's very much the point i was about to make to you ali before that john came back on there has got to be a steward's inquiry now that for successive weeks now we've had commentaries based on games that John's doing the commentary for.

45:18Ian Dennis:Yeah, no, I wasn't. I'm not doing the commentary in 2010. I'm just saying.

45:23Ali Bruce-Ball:I see both sides of that, Ian, because John's obviously getting himself into a Manchester derby frame of mind, but there'd be no reason really. I suppose, though, I suppose if your notes took you back to when was the last time, like that question, you know.

45:37Ian Dennis:Yeah, same as last week. I haven't started prepping that much yet. Well, you say that. Yeah, but how many Manchester derbies have you done? Oh, we've all done Manchester. Well, you have done the most. I'm older than you.

45:50Ali Bruce-Ball:I hate those ones, the date ones. I hate them. You both would have beat me on that. I hate them as well. I'm not good at that. I was dreading that. I'm not good at that. Well, you've done well.

45:57Ian Dennis:As soon as you started saying that, I thought, oh, no, not one of you. I'm disappointed, actually.

46:02Ali Bruce-Ball:Neither of you mentioned Bozinov came off the bench for Manchester City. Valerie Bozinov. Valerie Bozinov. What's his first name?

46:11Ian Dennis:I was going to say Victor. I think it's Valerie. But it was Valerie. It was Valerie, yeah.

46:16Ali Bruce-Ball:Bulgarian. Call on me, Valerie. That's it, that's it. So John, John is two from three. And Denno, still yet to win this season. I bet you did well there, though.

46:32Ian Dennis:Still, it's early days. The clocks have not come back yet. I think I need to pull your socks up. Change my approach.

46:40Ali Bruce-Ball:Just to let you know the goal scorers, because those were the ones worth double points, because I know people will be playing along at home as well. So from the game May 2009, Ronaldo and Tevez, they were both mentioned, both by John, actually. They scored in a 2-0 win. The September 2009 game was the Manchester United 4, Manchester City 3. Rooney scored. Darren Fletcher scored twice. Michael Owen, remember, with the 96th-minute winner. Gareth Barry, Craig Bellamy. And Bellamy actually got two for Manchester City. and then February 2011 Manchester United 2 Manchester City 1 Ian mentioned David Silva Rooney scored again and no one said dear old Nanny Nanny

47:21Ian Dennis:Neither Nanny nor Valery Bozhinow No Good That is just to repeat that is now you and me joint top of the table isn't it Ali although you you're ahead by the fact that you've played twice and I've played three times

47:36Ali Bruce-Ball:It won't last John I can assure you of that

47:38Ian Dennis:Okay, well, let's see about that. It will if you keep playing me. Well, at the moment, however, form fluctuates, Ian. We know this, covering sport as we do. Let's move on to this week's unintended top name of the week, which is an absolute cracker. And it comes from Steve from Chelmsford. And it's actually the inspiration, Ian, to cheer you up, comes from your commentary on Nottingham Forest against Spurs last Saturday afternoon.

48:11Ali Bruce-Ball:Unintended Pub Name of the Week. Goal for Burton Albion against Cambridge United as Tonali. Faced by the prospect of Murillo and Spurs going to throw on this near side. Unintended Pub Name of the Week.

48:28Ian Dennis:So a bit of context to this. London pub goers may know of, and I am aware of this, although I don't think I've been in it, the Prospect of Whitby, which is on the banks of the Thames in the East End. And Steve says, the Prospect of Murillo would be the sister pub to the Prospect of Whitby. And says a little further up the Thames, it would be a proper old Docklands boozer, dark wood, low oak beans, guest ails and over the front door a weathered sign showing a tall ship being tossed about in stormy seas. The ship would have sunk in the Atlantic and the wreckage would have washed up on the Copacabana beach in Brazil.

49:12Ian Dennis:The jukebox in the prospect of Murilo would only have one song, the forest anthem Bull of Kintyre playing on repeat through crackling speakers while a faded Brazil flag hangs on the wall above the billiards table. There we have it from Steve, the prospect of Murillo.

49:34Ali Bruce-Ball:Those, the last two weeks, the goalkeeper's arms and the prospect of Murillo are two of the best we've had. Those two entries have really hit the mark, I think. I've got to say that was a very good suggestion.

49:45Ian Dennis:And before we move on to the glossary, we've actually, I've had a follow-up piece of correspondence about some unintended pub names. It's actually a WhatsApp message from Matt in Southend, who says, just listen to the latest TCB podcast. And I think I have a useful bit of information that falls into two camps of discussion, the unintended pub name and your conversation about the glossary term Backstick. at Southend United's Roots Hall there is a pub in the East Stand called the Far Post it's even got a goal post on the wall, anyone seen that?

50:22Ali Bruce-Ball:I've been to Roots Hall, I've definitely commentated there but I've probably seen it but I don't remember it, always makes me think of Rob Nothman as well, our football producer and commentary coach to the stars he'll always say at the end of a conversation, see you at the Far Post, won't he?

50:40Ian Dennis:Yeah, he does, he does. Yeah, that's true. You've been to Serafand, don't you? I have, although it was a while ago now. It was for an FA Cup tie against Hull City when Steve Bruce was the manager. So you'd be going back at least 10 years. I can go back a little bit further than that. My first trip to Southend was when I was working in local radio, TFM in commercial radio. And I remember one of my early commentaries, we went to Southend and when we got to Roots Hall, there was a market right outside the grounds. So I wasn't sure where to park. And they just said, no, just leave the car in the market.

51:14Ian Dennis:So they actually, I was sort of driving around these stalls. And I thought, well, just leave it here. And they said, yeah, yeah, just leave it here. I got out the car, the stall next to where I parked the car. And I've never seen another market stall do this. It was selling toilets. So it was toilet. It's actually toilet basins. Is that what you call them? There was like 40 toilets. Are they bowls? Toilet bowls. Bowls. Toilet bowls. About 40 toilet bowls for sale.

51:46Ali Bruce-Ball:Yeah.

51:47Ian Dennis:And how many did they sell? Well, I don't know. I don't know because by the time we came out of the match afterwards, everything's gone. The car's still there, but they've all gone.

51:55Ali Bruce-Ball:So that was going to be my question, Joel. Would you be concerned leaving your car parked up in the midst of a market that you might come back and your car have been sold?

52:04Ian Dennis:That's a good point. Because fortunately, it's fortunately my trusty vw jetter was still there it's just reminded me that the golf course

52:13Ali Bruce-Ball:i play at uh here uh we we play around uh salisbury race course and when the races are on our golf course our nine holes get shut for a couple of days but it reopens at 10 o 'clock the following morning but if people have had a few to drink and decide to leave the cars sometimes the overflow parking's in the middle of the second fairway but if you're not there to pick your car up at 10 o 'clock the following morning then that is that's fair game that's a target so then you're sort of trying to shape shots around around around cars in the middle of the second fairway gentle fade exactly just thinking if you had sold your car in the mix the uh the ceramics

52:54Ian Dennis:of the toilet bowls you'd have been feeling a little flush i think best to move on to the glossary the great glossary of football commentary um this is where we build a collection of commentary terms and phrases and we put football exclusive terms into division one and division two is for terms used across various sports not just football so for example last week we added carrier and working their socks off into division two while the beautiful game and back stick made it into division one um our first division one entries of the season however rob in romford has sent us this. Regarding last week's episode, the term back stick is also used in hockey, the proper kind, not the one on ice.

53:40It may occasionally be used to refer to the back post and is likely borrowed from football. However, it is most often used to describe use of the rounded or back of the stick to strike the ball. This would naturally result in a free hit being awarded to the opposition.

53:54Ian Dennis:So thank you, Rob, for that. And 15-year-old Newcastle fan Adam says, I play hockey and a key rule is you can't use the back of your stick. The crime is labelled as a back stick. So I think it must be relegated to Division 2, which may come to the potential delight of John, who wasn't the biggest fan of the phrase in the first place. Thanks for being a constant inspiration to the younger generation, says Adam. Well, thank you for being inspired, Adam. So there we are. I didn't know that it was actually caught I knew that that was the rule having played a little bit of hockey um I knew you couldn't use that but I didn't know it was that was oh you that's yeah I

54:37Ali Bruce-Ball:I played it I played a lot of hockey John and I you know now those messages come in I would totally accept that I mean they are in slightly different context aren't they because the backstick we're talking about is the far post in football although who was it said there was it Rob who said actually that the far post in hockey can be called the backstick as well but backstick in that instance is totally different from the backstick we're talking about, but I accept it. Same words, div two.

55:00Ian Dennis:Yeah, fair enough. Yeah, so backstick relegated to Division 2 and thanks also to Prabhat in San Diego. Is that a new location for a piece of correspondence to the commentator's view? I think it might be. He also told us about the hockey version of backstick.

55:18Ali Bruce-Ball:Next up, George in Hertfordshire. Hi, TCV. I love the show. Perfect Saturday morning accompaniment for my walk into town. following on from the addition of back stick now relegated into division two could you also have woodwork or some variation of for example hit the woodwork off the woodwork whilst rugby has posts i can't recall ever hearing them referred to as woodwork and not sure any other sports with goals do the same like hockey for example what do you think good question george i mean the hockey ones nowadays aren't made of wood are they they're metal they ping those ones do uh rugby force would they say that did they say struck the upright maybe i don't think i'm not sure yeah the upright but but george is asking whether that actually belongs in division one well i think it's

56:04Ian Dennis:division two okay fair enough denied by john murray aj in gallston says hi john ian and abb i want to first thank you all for helping me get through my hour-long walk to college in the mornings i'm a lifelong manchester united fan which is admittedly not that long i'm only 16 you say all teenagers correspondent gets read out so let's see if it's true there you are you see told you aj uh and he says i was watching the manchester united sabbath game in which i thought at times it could be described as men against boys i didn't describe it as that way at the start of this podcast did it uh and he says i was wondering if this could be used in any other sports or could they take it into Division 1.

56:48Ian Dennis:That's very much Division 2, isn't it? I would say so. But I agree with him. It was men against boys. They were so easy to play around, weren't they? But thank you, AJ. We've now got a Liverpool fan, OB. Dear TCB, writing to you from Toronto and Canada, I absolutely love your podcast. For me, it's to pass time in traffic on my drive home on Friday evenings. My suggestion for the glossary is, makes himself big when referring to a goalkeeper. I can't think of another sport or any other situation where somebody makes themselves big, but I could be wrong.

57:24Ali Bruce-Ball:My mind goes to hockey again, possibly. I mean, the goalkeepers will look massive with all the kit on there. Can they make themselves look bigger? Handball, possibly?

57:32Ian Dennis:Probably Division 2, because you will have – it'll be hockey, won't it, that says that would be a phrase.

57:39Ali Bruce-Ball:Possibly, yeah.

57:40Ian Dennis:Believe it or not, Gary Flintoff is ringing me now. Gary's ringing me now. every week this is our football producer he's reading me

57:51Ali Bruce-Ball:I've referenced this before but it's the Fawlty Towers episode where Sybil's in hospital and she's asked Basil to move the moose's head and she keeps phoning him when he's in the process I'm doing it what is the point of phoning me to tell me to do something I'm already doing Holly? Holly? Oh. Manuel! Oh.

58:25Ian Dennis:Yes, faulty tyres, hello? I was just doing it, you stupid woman. I just put it down to come here to be reminded by you to do what I'm already doing. What is the point of reminding me to do what I'm already doing? I mean, what is the bloody point? I'm doing it, aren't I? Well, Gary's made himself very big there, which suggests that it really is a Division 2 term. And on the subject of making himself big, what about this one from Matt in South London? He says, Dear TCV, when Harvey Barnes scored his goal against Bournemouth last weekend, Match of the Day commentator Tom Gale said the following. Harvey Barnes, allowed to cut in onto his right foot, but take nothing away from the finish.

59:07You can have two goalkeepers in there, and no one's getting near that.

59:12Ian Dennis:that is a great division one that is it that is in division well done tom for for the old you could have had two goalkeepers in there and matt says implying of course that the shot was unstoppable regardless of how many goalkeepers were in goal and matt says i'd like to propose you could have two goalkeepers in there as a division two entry for the glossary i'd do that in division one wouldn't you?

59:37Ali Bruce-Ball:Yeah, I think so. Again, hockey, but I don't think, I mean, the goals in hockey are so small that you wouldn't use that in hockey, I don't think. And also, if you did have two goalkeepers in hockey, they actually would never score. Exactly.

59:48Ian Dennis:And actually, if you think about it, in hockey, they've already made themselves big, haven't they, with all the padding?

59:53Ali Bruce-Ball:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

59:56Ian Dennis:So, thanks, well spotted, Matt. And as we say, you know, any contributions to the glossary from any commentary, football commentary, otherwise, that you hear during the course of the week and send it to us. But let's finish with this one from Norwich City fan Leo, who says, Hi, Ali, John. And he says, the newly coined BBC's football senior football's daughter, Ian. That's what you called him, Ali, wasn't it? Yeah, but that's actually... I've had that title since 2009. Yeah, but not BBC football's senior football reporter, you haven't.

1:00:34Ali Bruce-Ball:Not with all the footballs in it, no.

1:00:35Ian Dennis:Oh, I'm with you. Sorry. Yeah. That's what we said last week. And Leo says, as I was listening to the latest TCD, watching the game week highlights and attempting to finish off some lengthy summer homework, all in tandem. He's no Alistair Bruce Ball. He says, I heard Gary Taphouse describe Harvey Barnes' whipped effort as a pearler. It struck me that this might slot in nicely next to Penenka in Division 1, as I can't imagine what other sport this has been used in before. However, I will leave it to the masters to decide. Keep up the good work and may TCV ever continue to distract me from my homework.

1:01:19Ian Dennis:Loyal Norwich City fan, Leo. So, Perla, I think I know what Ali's going to say.

1:01:26Ali Bruce-Ball:Well, are you thinking along the same lines as me, John? Could cricket have a... Yeah, exactly. You're miming Seam up, aren't you? And I think you could deliver a Perler. I think a slip catch could be an absolute Perler. Yeah, I agree. Division two.

1:01:40Ian Dennis:Definitely. You know, an outswinger takes the outside edge. Perler. Yeah, it's a Perler.

1:01:47Ali Bruce-Ball:Yeah. Opportunity missed. I always remember this commentary years and years ago. Euro 2012. Pirlo scored a brilliant free kick in a game I was doing. and that should have been a Perla from Pirlo that I always think, bother. I should have said that.

1:02:00Ian Dennis:The summary this week for the Great Glossary. Back stick relegated to Division 2. Woodwork into Division 2. Men against boys, Division 2. Makes himself or herself big, Division 2. Perla, Division 2. But you could have two goalkeepers in there and they still wouldn't have saved it. Goes into Division 1.

1:02:53Ian Dennis:Hooray! Diego. So we have had listeners from San Diego. Thank you very much to you two. Thank you. I think we're all back in tandem next week, aren't we? Again.

1:03:03Ali Bruce-Ball:Can we be in tandem as a three? Or is that for a discussion next week?

1:03:08Ian Dennis:Good point. Okay, we're all going to be back in tricycle next week. And looking forward as well. We've got Carabao Cook commentaries, haven't we? Coming up this coming midweek. Are we all in business for that? Or is that just some of us? Yeah, Liverpool top them.

1:03:25Ali Bruce-Ball:I'm at Ipswich on the Tuesday doing updates into Liverpool Tottenham. OK.

1:03:29Ian Dennis:And I'm at Manchester United Brighton on Wednesday night. So you'll be able to hear us commentate there. So that is it for this episode of The Commentator's View. Questions and correspondence always welcome anytime to tcv at bbc.co.uk. Or you can send us a message or a voice note on WhatsApp to 08000 289 369. We always love them. I must just mention before we go, personal thanks to everyone who looked after me at De Montfort University in Leicester this week, which they put on a great occasion. So thank you to everyone there. And the next episode of the Football Daily, ahead of the Manchester Derby, will be the football interview with City defender Ruben Diaz, who's a really good talker.

1:04:20Ian Dennis:So that will be well worth listening to. Oh. Manuel!

1:04:27Ali Bruce-Ball:The EFL has a brand new home. Hello and welcome to 72 Plus, the home of the EFL from Five Live Sports. Aaron Paul and Joby McEnough tackle the biggest stories from across the championship, League One, League Two and beyond. A minimum of one week's wage is fine. And we may even write to your wife and tell you why you've been fined if you carry on. And the biggest talking points from across the football league. I always spoke a lot of Toby and enjoyed working with him. It's my show too, Neil, but yeah, thanks for that. Sorry, I didn't want to go. Search 72 Plus, the EFL podcast on BBC Sounds.

1:05:20Ian Dennis:subscription.