In short
Commentator’s View on The Football Daily (BBC Five Live) covering: Kevin Keegan’s emotional St James’ Park send-off and how radio commentary “lets it breathe”; VAR technology and “light touch” rules; the Champions League draw (Bodo/Glimt vs Aston Villa; dullness of the format); and a “Clash of the Commentators” quiz plus glossary/ listener terms.
Guests (hosts)
Alistair Bruce Ball (Five Live athletics commentator; recently covered Diamond League in Zurich, saw two world records; also had a blocked ear from a holiday); John Murray (football commentator; described as measured/confident on radio; emotionally struggled at St James’ Park after seeing Keegan shirts everywhere); Ian Dennis (football commentator; recently commentated at Nottingham Forest; discusses past Leeds/Viduka four-goal match).
Key claims
VAR audio will inform but not reveal outcomes before decisions; VAR should intervene only for clear/obvious incidents. Champions League draw lacks narrative because fixtures are generated and announced later.
Notable examples
Keegan black-and-white video on screens; Newcastle’s War Flags setup; Savio/Savinho name confusion (Spurs signing); Ipswich’s strong start; Viduka’s four goals for Leeds vs Liverpool; VAR “recovering Dedich” pub-name joke.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOExciting Moments in Athletics
1:04 to 1:40
Discussion about impressive athletic events and personal experiences.
“I think John Murray's been writing the script because John in Lytham last week described him as the goat, but it still says the goat, John Murray, so he's clearly had a hand in that as the correspondent.”
The Buzz of Football Commentary
1:40 to 2:34
Reflecting on the excitement and emotional moments in football commentary.
“You know, when sometimes you go to a football game on your own, I don't know if you two do this, and sometimes you can fall into, you start commentating, even though you're watching.”
Emotional Scenes at St James's Park
2:34 to 6:24
A deep dive into the emotional atmosphere during a memorable football match.
“And I thought Newcastle and the War Flags group staged it brilliantly, you know, to have it all around the stadium.”
Commentary Techniques and Experiences
6:24 to 8:10
Exploring the art of commentary and personal experiences from the hosts.
“But even, you know, I always think this listening to you doing England at the major tournaments, even in the biggest moments, I always feel you're not rushed.”
Weekend Football Schedule and Insights
8:10 to 10:46
Overview of the upcoming football matches and insights into teams and players.
“headphones and crowd noise, if this doesn't clear up in a couple of days, you know, would be a bit of a problem.”
Transfers and Emerging Players
10:46 to 14:00
Discussion on player transfers and potential up-and-coming talents in football.
“Finidi George was signed and had an absolute blinder on the first day of the season.”
Savinho or Savio: The Name Game
14:00 to 15:40
The hosts discuss the name change of Brazilian winger Savinho to Savio and its implications.
“but also, and this is a big money move, a certain Brazilian winger joining Spurs for an initial fee of£75 million from Manchester City.”
VAR Commentary Insights
15:40 to 17:40
The hosts share experiences about the new VAR communication during live commentary.
“on to the other bits and bobs of the pod this week.”
The Evolving Role of VAR in Football
17:40 to 19:50
Discussion on the lighter touch of VAR and its impact on football this season.
“See, that's one of the things about VAR is that if you do watch it at home, back in the day, if you think about football, you'd go to the game and you might stop off for a drink on the way home.”
Memorable Four-Goal Hauls in Football
19:50 to 24:00
Hosts reminisce about iconic four-goal performances in football history.
“And the WhatsApp thingy for messages and voice notes is 08289369.”
Show all 22 chapters
Bethan's GCSE Success Story
24:00 to 27:00
A listener shares their academic success and how the podcast helped during revision.
“story and Joe Wicks is in the story, Georgia Stanway, Tim Henman and anyway and all of the Beano characters are in it.”
Nostalgia and The Beano
27:00 to 28:00
The hosts discuss their childhood connections to The Beano and reading.
“But thank you for all your work and keep it up.”
Norwegian Teams in Champions League
28:00 to 29:16
Discussion about the historical significance of two Norwegian teams in the Champions League and the recent draw results.
“So it's actually the first time in 27 years that there have been two Norwegian teams in the Champions League.”
Critique of the Champions League Draw
29:16 to 31:29
Exploration of the perceived dullness of the Champions League draw and suggestions for improvement.
“They should like the Premier League fixtures now, really, because it's quite a dull draw, isn't it?”
Introduction to Clash of the Commentators
31:29 to 32:36
Introductory segment for the Clash of the Commentators game, setting the stage for competition.
“Yeah, the draw's made Thursday evening and it's probably not until the Saturday morning when the fixtures are confirmed and the schedule's all in place.”
Clash of the Commentators Gameplay
32:36 to 36:08
Interactive gameplay segment where commentators answer questions about players who have played for both Tottenham and Newcastle.
“The Commentators' View on the Football Daily with Alistair Bruce Ball, John Murray and Ian Dennis.”
Analysis of the Clash Results
36:08 to 39:22
Discussion analyzing the results of the Clash of the Commentators and mentioning notable players.
“So the question to you, Ian, is, I want you to name any player to have featured for both Tottenham and Newcastle in their careers.”
Listener Feedback and Comments
39:22 to 40:44
Reading and discussing listener feedback about the podcast and a humorous pub name suggestion.
“and they talk about setting a high bar, don't they, for VAR?”
Glossary of Football Commentary Terms
40:44 to 42:00
Discussion about adding new terms to the football commentary glossary and listener contributions.
“I was thinking did you read the quotes from Gary Lineker this week who said that he said podcast listeners now expect the podcast every week.”
Listener Feedback on Radio Commentary
42:00 to 43:20
Listeners share their experiences and preferences for football on the radio.
“Joining a new club, but it would have to be.”
Glossary Terms and Sport References
43:20 to 45:56
Discussion on various glossary terms and their relevance in sports commentary.
“I suspect actual aerial duels probably went out with the Red Baron, didn't they?”
Family Fun with Headers and Football
45:56 to 47:36
Hosts share a fun family activity involving football skills and commentary insights.
“holidays with our family we were doing header rallies with a with a volleyball in the pool so standing sort of waist deep in the shallow end and seeing how many headers you could put together before the rally falls down.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Ali Bruce-Ball:This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK.
0:30Ali Bruce-Ball:at Whole Foods Market.
0:31Ian Dennis:Odoo, providing tools for businesses across industries into one fully integrated platform. Whatever your business needs, Odoo is committed to providing it. Learn more at odoo.com.
0:45Ali Bruce-Ball:The Commentator's View on the Football Daily with Alistair Bruce Ball, John Murray and Ian Dennis.
0:53John Murray:Hello, it's the Football Daily. I'm Ian Dennis and this is the Commentator's View where we five live commentators talk about the football our travels and the language we use in football commentary. And as ever, we have a full house. I think John Murray's been writing the script because John in Lytham last week described him as the goat, but it still says the goat, John Murray, so he's clearly had a hand in that as the correspondent. And Five Lives' newest, athletics commentator, Ali Bruce Ball. Hello. Good morning.
1:21Ali Bruce-Ball:You'd have been impressed with me on the athletics front because last night I eschewed Five Lives' commentary of Chelsea against Luton and got stuck into the Diamond League meeting in Zurich. so hooked am I on my new sport. Saw two world records. I mean, that's quite a rare thing. There were two world records set in Zurich last night. So that was exciting.
1:40John Murray:You know, when sometimes you go to a football game on your own, I don't know if you two do this, and sometimes you can fall into, you start commentating, even though you're watching. Did you do that now as with your athletics head on?
1:52Ali Bruce-Ball:Do you know what? The thing I do do in one of the brilliant bits of advice I've been given by a few people, Mike Costello, who obviously used to do the job for the BBC, Steve Cram, who still does, was in those sprint races, when the gun goes, to give yourself, a second is probably too much, but half a second. Don't say anything. Just try and read it. Just try and see who's made the good start. And you've got to have a bit of confidence to do that. But what I do find myself doing now, just watching at home, is just trying to read it off the blocks, just saying to myself, oh, lane four, good start, or that kind of thing.
2:26Ali Bruce-Ball:do you know what I mean just so that you're kind of ready for the next time so yeah I'm yeah I'm getting a little bit sort of stato on the athletics front and how did you feel Ian getting
2:34Ian Dennis:back into football commentary last weekend at the city ground Nottingham well I was just going to
2:39John Murray:say as you know from last week with clash of the commentators I was a little bit rusty but I couldn't help but get the buzz on the opening day walking to the city ground I knew the atmosphere is guaranteed to be great so yeah it was a little rusty in terms of getting back into the rhythm the swing of things but I was going to say to you John I mean I listened to you you were obviously at Brentford but then I and I listened to you on my way home with Michael Brown but the St James's Park the next day the way that you described what was clearly a very emotional scene at St James's Park as we knew it was going to be I thought was outstanding regarding Kevin Keegan we talked about
3:18Ian Dennis:how emotional it was going to be. And it really was, you know. And I thought Newcastle and the War Flags group staged it brilliantly, you know, to have it all around the stadium. And also what was really effective was that they gave it a little bit of space to breathe before the match, before the teams came out. It takes a lot for me to get a lump in my throat, but I did when it was all they put the a very effective video up on the screens which was in black and white and it was at that point that the uh the words Kevin Keegan's words were put up in the Gallagate end and um you know you I think everyone who was there and I love witnessed it and probably people who were tuning in as well but I felt that emotion and John when you said
4:07John Murray:they let it breathe I actually thought that actually is the perfect way to describe how your commentary was because and anybody who hasn't yet listened to it or seen it you can go back to the to the bbc sounds app and it gives you the opportunity to rewind and to find the start of that commentary ahead of the game atst james's park last sunday it was a 4 30 kickoff but i say seen it because it was on instagram and it was on all other social media platforms such as x and it was a real close-up of you, John, and you did let it breathe. And I think it was so measured, and you could feel the emotion.
4:44John Murray:Well, that's why I let it breathe, because I was actually
4:47Ian Dennis:struggling to keep it together. And if you do look at the video, you can actually see bottom lip wobbling a little bit. I felt that as soon as I walked up to St. James's Park, and almost the first thing that I saw was a young boy who was probably only about I don't know 13 or 14 years old but he was wearing an England top from the 1982 World Cup with Keegan on the back and I just thought oh that's um that just goes to show what's coming here and and virtually everyone was wearing a Keegan shirt and as I said before to you I think it's just that and and so many people will feel this that they have this connection with Kevin Keegan and for people of my age you know he was my first footballing hero really and to have followed his his career as a football follower and then doing this job and interviewing him and you know seeing how it all played out I think that's what you were feeling on that day at St James's Park so I think that all who were assembled there and all who were following it from wherever because of that connection that they had with Kevin Keegan I think that's why there was the emotion.
5:57Ali Bruce-Ball:Just on the commentary side of things, Ian, I have since watched that clip of John and Pat Nevin describing the scenes. And you're absolutely right. Newcastle did it brilliantly. But on radio in particular, you've got to try and get a lot in there, haven't you? But also have the confidence. And it's the hallmark of John's commentary style, I think, is, as we joke, you can never hurry or murray. But it's always measured. And John, I'm not talking about the time it takes for you to eat dinner, John. I'm talking about when you're on air. But even, you know, I always think this listening to you doing England at the major tournaments, even in the biggest moments, I always feel you're not rushed.
6:37Ali Bruce-Ball:You're confident enough to let things breathe. And I think, particularly on radio, that takes quite a lot of confidence because you're thinking, oh, my goodness, dead air. Like, there's nothing. What are people listening to? But sometimes, actually, just the atmosphere around you speaks so much louder than our words can. So it was, yeah. Well, that's very kind of a lot. Very emotional.
6:55Ian Dennis:I think my response to that would be half the time I'm thinking about what I'm going to say next. Giving myself a bit of breathing time. But I'll never forget that. What was the story, Ali, you were going to tell us about your holiday?
7:09Ali Bruce-Ball:Yeah, so you know, John, this is a classic. You know, we've all had very busy summers of sport and you go away on your holes and you go away to relax, don't you? Completely unwind, switch off, refresh and hopefully come back, you know, 100 % and absolutely raring to go. when was the last time you came back from a summer holiday with an ear infection i mean i think it must be when i was eight years old it used to be a problem of constantly getting in the pool and i honestly speaking to you this morning in my right ear it feels like someone has wadged a ton of cotton wool i just i it's ridiculous it's absolutely ridiculous so i've got to get down to the pharmacy this afternoon and try and get some medication because it's what we would call the chemist Particularly his headphones.
7:50Ali Bruce-Ball:What did I say? The farmer. Go to the chemist, John. That's where I'm going. That would have been a$5 fine at the World Cup. I'm quite glad that I'm not actually in a stadium. So I'm actually presenting on Sunday this weekend, but I'm not in a stadium because I do think the balance of sound in my ears, headphones and crowd noise, if this doesn't clear up in a couple of days, you know, would be a bit of a problem. So it's probably good I'm in the studio on Sunday.
8:17Ian Dennis:Do you remember I had a blocked ear in Qatar at the World Cup, which was really debilitating? I was like you, I couldn't hear out of one ear. Do you remember I had to go and get my ear syringed in a clinic in Qatar? And as soon as they did that, I felt like a new man.
8:38John Murray:So clash of the commentators and the great glossary to come. But here's our schedule this weekend on Five Live. Updates of Crystal Palace, Manchester City, Friday night. Likewise, updates of Liverpool, Nottingham Forest on Saturday lunchtime into Five Live Sport with Mark Chapman. And then the commentaries. Coventry City, Hull City is our three o 'clock commentary. That's with Pat Nevin. The alternative listening, that's with the usual goal service, is Bournemouth Everton. That's on Sports Extra 2 because TMS will be on Sports Extra. And then on Saturday, Tottenham Hotspur against Newcastle, Connor McNamara and Rob Green.
9:13John Murray:and then I looked down the list and there's no John Murray this Sunday. He did double bubble last weekend and there's no Ali Bruce Ball either for Chelsea, Brighton and Ovalbion at two. Leeds Brentford is on Sports Extra two. Sunderland-Furlum Sports Extra three. Manchester United-Ipswich at 4.30 and there's no mention of the two of you. And actually Colin in Manchester, Ali says,
9:37Ian Dennis:love the podcast. And Colin says, I noticed Alistair is scheduled to present. Premier League Sunday on Five Live. And Colin asks the question, is he now more of a presenter for football than a commentator?
9:52Ali Bruce-Ball:It's astounding, Colin. So Steve Crossman is away at the moment. So I will be doing a couple of the upcoming Sundays. I think Aaron Paul did last Sunday and I'm taking over for a couple as well. So no, commentary will be the regular thing as always this season. But I do enjoy the presenting. And I think this Sunday, you know particularly being second weekend of the season and the narratives that have already developed with those games Chelsea who started so well and looks so exciting against Fulham at home against Brighton who thumped Villa is our two o 'clock on five live and then Manchester United Ipswich after the United defeat and Ipswich is excellent star there is a lot to get our teeth into on Sunday so yeah I'm looking forward to it and actually Ian I'm off this weekend I've got a
10:39Ian Dennis:couple of social engagements so um i'm i'm actually taking the weekend off it's not boot club this time ali no no so um so i can't remember the last time that i didn't work on the august
10:54John Murray:bank holiday weekend we've also had some correspondence from bradford city fans simon tcv at bbc.co.uk after your question about the big money signings in the last episode it would be really good if you could perhaps share a few lesser known names you think might come through this season oh and please give a mention to the mighty bantams top of league one as it stands yes the chickens are going rather well simon also through to the next round of the uh
11:22Ian Dennis:of the league cup well the one i was going to mention is and he's already been on the field for hull city is um the australian defender herrington who um they obviously showed a lot of faith in him Australia at the World Cup because he ended up in the Australian team and I thought that was quite a shrewd signing by Hull City the midfield two for Everton in their win against
11:43Ali Bruce-Ball:Crystal Palace who I know their their names we've discussed but I think you probably still put them in that category sort of Premier League unproven still at the moment in Harrison Armstrong and Hayden Hackney you know who I heard David Moyes say after the game they've possibly got their chance there a little bit earlier than might have happened were it not for injuries but if you play well and you know prove you deserve a place then it'll be interesting to keep an eye on on both of them i had quite an amusing text actually from one of our producers rory who had spotted that ipswich had won their opening game and and you know knows my leanings on the football front and he told me that julio and ciso looked like prime maradona uh during that game and i said well just you know let's just hold on a minute because i remember ipswich 2001 2002 having got promoted back to the Premier League, finished fifth and got into Europe, then bolstered the squad that summer.
12:33Ali Bruce-Ball:Finidi George was signed and had an absolute blinder on the first day of the season. You were thinking, that is money well spent. This is going to be really good. And didn't do anything for the rest of the season and Ipswich got relegated. So I was just saying to Rory, let's just wait and see. Let's just wait and see on that one. But very important win for Ipswich, I think, because they've got some tough fixtures coming up. So that was a really good start for them.
12:55John Murray:I would go with Muharremovich of Leeds United. He's a Bosnian international and I think he's a defender. He had a very impressive debut at the city ground but he's quite versatile as well. So I think he can play anywhere across the back and I think that that could be a good signing for Leeds.
13:15Ian Dennis:I'd mention those two Aston Villa youngsters as well, George Hemmings and Brian Madjo who I got more than a glimpse of during the Super Cup match and I know Madjo's been injured since and obviously things have taken a bit of a turn with Aston Villa, haven't they? But I'm very much looking forward to seeing more of Maggio.
13:36John Murray:You know five of that starting XI that won the Europa League in Istanbul last year have now left? That's quite an exodus, isn't it?
13:44Ian Dennis:It really is, isn't it? I don't think... It's a real surprise, that, isn't it? That there's been so much change there from a team that won a European trophy last season.
13:53John Murray:Talking of changes, Manchester City have shipped out Omar Mamouche to Tottenham, which is on a loan with an obligation to buy next summer, but also, and this is a big money move, a certain Brazilian winger joining Spurs for an initial fee of£75 million from Manchester City. But what do we make of Savinho becoming Savio? There was a bit of talk of this
14:19Ian Dennis:when he was at Manchester City, wasn't there? Yeah, yeah. He could be Savio or he could be Savinho. because when he was at Girona, he was Savio, wasn't he?
14:28John Murray:That's right. That's where it came from, wasn't it?
14:30Ali Bruce-Ball:Yeah.
14:31John Murray:Because Manchester City wrote on social media, wishing you all the best, Savio. And Spurs announced, welcome to Tottenham, Savio. Savio is his actual name.
14:39Ali Bruce-Ball:He's a different player. Yeah, that's what I was going to say. And so the information we've got is that, and I do remember this, John's right, when he arrived at Manchester City. So apparently in 2024, he said his national team put Savio on his shirt and then he asked Manchester City to keep it for luck. when he moved there, hasn't had an amazing time at Manchester City in and out of the team. Obviously, he has some medals to show for it. So maybe he thinks, let's have a change of luck. Let's go back to Savio. As long as we're all singing off the same hymn sheet, it's not a problem. If we know his name and we all say it the same, fine.
Read the full transcript
15:11Ali Bruce-Ball:So will the two of you go Savio or Savinho? Probably. Savio? Yeah, if he's got Savio on his shirt, we've got to call him Savio, haven't we?
15:22Ian Dennis:No, not necessarily. but if that is actually his name if that's his name and he said he wants to be known by what is actually his name so probably Savio would be the way
15:39Ali Bruce-Ball:Very quick one for you guys before we move on to the other bits and bobs of the pod this week. Am I right in saying now when we're commentating new for us this season as Radio 5 Live commentators that you will be able to hear or you have been able to hear uh stockley park the var officials discussions while you're commentating on the game is that right well i'd like to hear what john thinks about that ali because the three o 'clock and the goal service i opted not to have the talk back in
16:10John Murray:my ear because i've got enough going on with the producer bowing at me all the time and also trying to listen what's going on and i just thought it was too much it was information overload so when there was the instance of I think it was a an Ina tackle Tanya our engineer then faded up Stockley Park but I only heard one half of the conversation was that any different to you John well just to explain as well this is for us to get an idea of what it is that the video assistant
16:39Ian Dennis:referee is talking about so it's to inform our commentary so it's not something that we are able to put out on air, but we can listen in and then reflect what the discussion has been between the referee and the video assistant referee. So that's how it works. We are in the early stages of our technology at the moment, Ian, aren't we? In that, in due course, we will actually be able to turn that up and down ourselves. But at the moment, we're not able to do that. So last weekend, I had a combination at Brentford on the Saturday. our producer George Cummins actually listened to it and and he he would tell me what was being said by VAR in some shape or form and then on the Sunday our engineer Chris when we're at St James's Park he actually turned he would turn it up and turn it down depending on what was happening so I've had a taste of it but I think it will work better when we are actually able to tune
17:38Ali Bruce-Ball:into it and then turn it down ourselves so it informs you while you're describing the scene whatever but what you're saying is in terms of that information that you get from Stockley Park you won't use that until the decision has been made you won't use it to sort of say oh I think I know what's coming here no you wait until the decision's been made and then you say these are
17:57Ian Dennis:the discussions yeah I think it I think the idea is that if it is complicated we will have a better idea of being able to explain to listeners why that decision has been made because we'll have
18:11John Murray:heard part of the conversation i'm not sure i did that i think i might have actually just said oh this is what's going to happen well actually there is a post here that we've been given which was
18:24Ian Dennis:actually directed at sky sports from a guy called sam who says please tell your commentators not to casually tell us the outcome of a huge VAR call, it is far more dramatic and exciting to hear stroke see the referee announce it. So he's made it clear what he wants.
18:40John Murray:See, that's one of the things about VAR is that if you do watch it at home, back in the day, if you think about football, you'd go to the game and you might stop off for a drink on the way home. And those in the pub go, oh, what happened at the football today? Nowadays, it's the other way around. You can go to the game but the supporter who watches the game at home or in the pub is actually better informed than actually the supporter who's inside the stadium because of technology what's interesting
19:07Ian Dennis:as well is we've had a couple of sessions haven't we that that have um informed us as broadcasters about what to expect from VAR this season both in the Premier League and for the UEFA competitions And I think it's interesting that the message right from the outset from both organisations has been that the intention is for VAR to have a lighter touch than previously and to really make sure that when it gets involved this season, it is for the clear and obvious. It will be interesting, won't it, to see how that shakes down.
19:48John Murray:It will indeed. The email is tcv at bbc.co.uk. And the WhatsApp thingy for messages and voice notes is 08289369. I should also, at that point, just give a little shout-out to two fine football writers, sports writers in the case of Paul Hayward. Paul Hayward said he very much enjoyed TCV when I saw him at the city ground last week. And John Cross, obviously of the Daily Mirror, their chief football writer, big fan of TCV, ABCV, observant as ever, is JC. And also, talking of being observant, on the subject of pokers or four-goal hauls, as we were discussing last week, we've had quite a bit of correspondence.
20:31Ali Bruce-Ball:Well, one of those, Ian, comes from a Leeds fan, Callum, who says, Ray, four goals in a game. For me, this would have to be a vaduka after watching him score four against Liverpool as Leeds won 4-3. A glorious memory. Is this one that Ian recalls during his time commentating on Leeds United.
20:49John Murray:Yes, I do, Callum. And actually, I remember it more for Viduka himself after the game because I always used to do the hospitality suite in the main stand there at Ellen Road and Viduka, as man of the match, came up. And I seem to recall that after the game, after he'd scored all four goals at Ellen Road, he stayed and signed every autograph. And then I've got a vague recollection of him since telling me that he was wearing like a white suit. And as he made his way to the car after the game, he was mobbed by a load of supporters who were all running towards him with the pens. And therefore his white suit had quite a few biro marks left on it.
21:31John Murray:So I do recall that, yes. It was a very good game and a very good performance from Mark Baduka. I was commentating on that match as well, Ian.
21:39Ian Dennis:On Five Live, yeah. We must have been sat together. In a white suit? On that occasion. I don't think I was wearing a white suit. In fact, I don't think I've worn a white suit in my life.
21:50Ali Bruce-Ball:The BBC Match Report apparently said, Varduka, they described it as a four-goal blast. In terms of glossary, I'm just wondering about what other words are four-goal salvo, possibly? Salvo.
22:03John Murray:Four-goal haul. Salvo. Haul. Yeah, that's good. Listeners can help with that one. Ian in Dublin, he says, do you remember Salah scoring four versus Watford on St. Patrick's Day 2018? it was the coldest day on earth at Anfield. Ireland also won the Grand Slam against England on a very merry occasion. Indeed, it was cold in mid-March because the script says here, I was at Old Trafford and I forgot my winter thermals to which Hare Chapman said on Twitter, get on with it. Haven't heard anyone else moaning about the weather this afternoon. Well, that's a real blast from the past, isn't it?
22:38Ian Dennis:In many senses. Mark Chapman posting on Twitter. When was that? 2018?
22:45John Murray:Bethan has been in touch. I wanted to write to the TCB team to say a big thank you. I've just done my GCSEs and found out the other day that I achieved all grades 7, 8 and 9, so I'm very happy. Congratulations, Bethan. Throughout my GCSEs, I listened to the commentator's view in the evenings after long days of revision, which was a nice change from the same old revision content and always made me laugh. As a Liverpool season ticket holder at times, hearing about us losing wasn't fun so hopefully we can have a better season this year and i'm so excited to listen to the pod again now it's back thank you for getting me through my gcse's well
23:21Ian Dennis:that's brilliant isn't it um thanks for your custom bethen and again that is uh proof if any further proof was needed that if you're a teenager and you send us an email it'll always get read out on the commentator's view but that's really quite touching isn't it this this is actually putting me in mind as well of i don't know whether you're aware of this or not but bbc sport is supporting the national year of reading at the moment so quite key because i've got involved in this which is in which has ended up with with me featuring in a special edition of the bino have we spoken about this no no no so so i feature in this in this special edition of the bino there's got a story and Joe Wicks is in the story, Georgia Stanway, Tim Henman and anyway and all of the Beano characters are in it.
24:14Ian Dennis:So anyway last week on Gordon Smart's programme on Five Live we did a feature on it to promote it and the link up with the National Year of Reading and rather amusingly on that day even though this edition has been out for probably a couple of months now it was picked up and actually became an item on the news on Radio 4. So I got a lot of reaction last Friday from people who'd heard about this story of me appearing in the Beano, being in the Radio 4 news. Did you read the Beano as a kid, John? Only occasionally is the answer to that. So I would see the Beano and the Dandy, but I think my memory of the Beano and the Dandy was more, you would always get given a copy of the annual at Christmas, wouldn't you?
25:02Ian Dennis:One or the other.
25:04Ali Bruce-Ball:But pre-Roy the Rovers for me, which is my weekly fix, the Beano used to come through the door every week. So I'm, you know, that would have been as a kid probably a lifetime ambition to try and get into the Beano. So well done you. Well done Bethan, obviously, on the exam results. Yeah, very much so.
25:19Ian Dennis:But I thought they missed a bit of a trick there because really, Ian, they should have got you to do it, shouldn't they? Dennis the Menace.
25:30John Murray:very good but i know who's more of a menace and it's um it's not me it's murray the menace
25:36Ian Dennis:but uh but it is i have to say it is something that i do uh when they said would you do this you know it's something that that i thought absolutely i'd love to if there's a tiny way that i could encourage people to take up reading and i think comics are a great way into reading As you mentioned, Ali, Royal Rovers was quite a big thing, wasn't it, for us when we were growing up? But the various other comics I used to read as well.
26:01Ali Bruce-Ball:Just at a tangent, do you find time for much reading yourself? As in, you know, obviously I'm talking away from sport and prepping or whatever, but actual leisure reading.
26:11Ian Dennis:Yeah, well, I do. And as I was saying to Gordon Smart last week, one of the things that we did, me and some friends, as I think you both know, set up a boot club during COVID. it so from a point where i would only read occasionally because you feel like you haven't got the time but joining the book club really forced me to a read more and b read things that i haven't i wouldn't normally read and i've really enjoyed it i wish i'd done it decades ago
26:43Ali Bruce-Ball:we've had this from jamie from manchester hello a long time listener of the commentators view here generally on a long run don't have a dog sadly but there we go during the summer I visited the north of Norway with a friend of mine and we trekked across Lofoten islands and during this trip quite a lot of the nights the world cup was on so in a random tent in midnight sun in Norway me and my mate Josh would just have BBC sounds on with one of your commentaries and it was good company when we were at the end of hiking 15 20k a day up mountains and stuff but the main reason for my message is we went through Bodo on the way and really bizarrely it felt like I'd been there before because of how much passion and visceral description you guys give whenever Bodo Glimps get a mention on the podcast so yeah we made sure to stop at the stadium which looks more like it belongs in League One or Two and the Champions League.
27:46John Murray:But thank you for all your work and keep it up. And thank you, Jamie, for listening. And Mbodo, or Boudou, back in the Champions League again this season. But they didn't draw any of the Premier League sides, but there's Viking. So it's actually the first time in 27 years that there have been two Norwegian teams in the Champions League. And Viking did draw Aston Villa. However, it will be Villa at home to Viking, the Norwegian champions, rather than going to Norway. Or Viking, as they rather strangely pronounced it
28:21Ian Dennis:during the course of the draw, which I wasn't expecting. So we'll have to check that one out. And also, as well, it does look, Ali, doesn't it, as though we've done our bit for the Buda tourist board.
28:33Ali Bruce-Ball:Yeah.
28:33Ian Dennis:If people are now flocking to Buda and the Lofoten Islands. And actually, our BBC colleague, former radio sport colleague, James Porter, this summer on a cruise up there, went to Buda. So he visited Buda as well and was similarly impressed.
28:54Ali Bruce-Ball:Yeah, world tour for this podcast. Buda, if we head to the Arctic Circle, that's got to be a stop off. Feels like a second home.
29:01Ian Dennis:It does. And I have to confess, I was slightly disappointed when Buda didn't draw any of the English clubs. during the draw, which incidentally, Ian, I think now that draw has just kind of lost touch with reality, hasn't it? They should like the Premier League fixtures now, really, because it's quite a dull draw, isn't it? Because there's no, it's too big. There are too many fixtures. It's not like it was when it was the group and teams would be in with three other sides. I think really now, probably what they should do is just release the fixtures. I don't think it's as easy as that, though, is it?
29:40Ian Dennis:No, but they could do that behind closed doors, get it all sorted out, the computer does its work, you work out the fixtures, and the first thing you put in the public domain is who plays who and when the matches are.
29:54John Murray:You see, with that, I think then you'd have question marks over transparency, wouldn't you? Would you? People then would say, oh, it's fixed. Yeah, I think so. I mean, it's not the Premier League. No, all right.
30:06Ian Dennis:Just release the fixtures. I think it's a really dull draw now and you know me I love a draw I absolutely love a football draw this one doesn't work
30:18Ali Bruce-Ball:yeah it is a little bit everyone plays everyone which I know they don't but in terms of the big fixtures those juicy ones that sometimes would come out in the group stages because you meet a couple of teams from each pot you know you're going to get lots of juicy ones it just depends in which order they fall and how much juice can you squeeze out of that the knockout draw is a different matter
30:35Ian Dennis:when it gets to the knockout stages that's a different matter because that has that draw excitement. This lacks excitement for a draw.
30:44John Murray:Yeah. I know where you're coming from because when I was covering the draw on Five Live Drive on Thursday, in many ways it lacks a narrative because the teams just come out at once because obviously they're generated through the computer. So say, for instance, with Liverpool, because Inter and Atletico had come out first, we knew that they were two of Liverpool's opponents. And then Porto, Bruges, Villarreal, Fenerbahce, Lons and Lask then came out all at once. And it's very hard, I think, when you look at it to think, all right, OK, because they might not play Inter until January. So I get where you're coming from, John, regarding that.
31:24John Murray:And I think it's frustrating for the supporters as well
31:26Ian Dennis:because they know the matches, but they don't know when they're being played.
31:30John Murray:Yeah, the draw's made Thursday evening and it's probably not until the Saturday morning when the fixtures are confirmed and the schedule's all in place.
32:02Ian Dennis:Five Live Sports. Because...
32:37Ali Bruce-Ball:At Whole Foods Market. The Commentators' View on the Football Daily with Alistair Bruce Ball, John Murray and Ian Dennis.
32:50Ian Dennis:Right, it is time for Clash of the Commentators. And anyone who was listening to last week's edition of the Commentators' View will know that I got off the mark after beating Ian on the big money moves of the summer. So I am currently sitting on top of the table. So will it be two defeats from two for the defending champion Ian today? That would put the pressure on Ian, wouldn't it? So you're going to take on Ali. And in the clash of the commentators, if you've not listened before, this is where we take turns to answer a question and give as many correct answers as you can in 30 seconds. so who is going to go first this week?
33:35Ali Bruce-Ball:Ian, did you go first last week? I did Okay, shall I go first?
33:39Ian Dennis:Let's do that, shall we? So Ian, you need to disconnect so Ali, you'll have to tell me when he's disconnected because without the video
33:47Ali Bruce-Ball:Yeah, well that's interesting because he's now frozen on my screen so I might be relying on producer Nathan to tell me when Ian's disconnected I think he's gone, John unless he's playing a clever one there
33:57Ian Dennis:Let it go Let it go
34:01Ali Bruce-Ball:Let him go. I think he's gone. Come on. OK, so Ian's frozen and we are ready to go.
34:07Ian Dennis:And this is the question, Ali. So this weekend, our Saturday 5.30 commentary on Five Live and BBC Sounds is Tottenham against Newcastle. Some might call that the Sandro Tonali derby. I want you to name any player to have featured for both Tottenham and Newcastle in their careers. So any player to have played for Tottenham and Newcastle 30 seconds from now.
34:40Ali Bruce-Ball:Chris Waddell, Paul Gascoigne, Les Ferdinand, Stephen Carr. I'm terrible at these, I hate these ones. Sandra Tonali, I'll take him.
34:58Ali Bruce-Ball:Cynical. Newcastle and Tottenham.
35:04Goalkeepers.
35:07Ali Bruce-Ball:I think that's me, John. I'm going to take five. I'll get beaten on that.
35:13Ian Dennis:I think he might have fallen one short there. I think he might just pick. At least. I think he'll get most of them, don't you?
35:23Ali Bruce-Ball:Oh, he'll definitely get them. He might not go to Nali.
35:26Ian Dennis:I was going to say, before we call him back in, he might not go to Nali, which would be very funny.
35:32John Murray:Hello, I'm back. Oh, here he is. Okay. Sorry, he's back. Rather dramatic. I just had a power cut, sorry. Power cut? Yeah. Good crew. Lost all communication, but are you ready for your contribution?
35:45Ian Dennis:Well, a little flustered. Okay. Not ideal preparation, really. No, it's not ideal preparation. Do you need another minute or two? No, no, no. To have a rehydration break? Yeah, no, fine. Okay. So, Ian, this Saturday, the 5.30 commentary is Tottenham against Newcastle on 5 Live and BBC Sounds, which is, described by some, as the Sandro Tonali derby. So the question to you, Ian, is, I want you to name any player to have featured for both Tottenham and Newcastle in their careers. So any player to have played for Tottenham and Newcastle. And your 30 seconds starts now.
36:28John Murray:Paul Gascoigne, Chris Waddle, Sandro Tonali,
36:36and...
36:54John Murray:What's the ID list? No, Ozzy was the manager of Newcastle. The manager. Not the player.
37:02Ian Dennis:Yeah.
37:02John Murray:Oh, dear.
37:04Ian Dennis:I think the power cut's done for you there. I'll take that excuse. Well, the scores are in. And I can tell you that the result... That's a little bit late. That's a bit late. The result of this week's Clash of the Commentators is Ian Dennis 3, Alistair Bruce Ball 5. So Ali wins that. Thank you. Stephen Carr, you're absolutely correct. Five Live Summaries, Jonathan Woodgate didn't get a mention. Woody. From either of you. Don't tell anybody. Sol Campbell. I'm surprised, Ian, you didn't get Les Ferdinand. I thought you'd get Les Ferdinand. Yeah, so Les. Ruel Fox, who was also like Les Ferdinand, was at St.
37:55Ian Dennis:James' Park last Sunday. Ginola was one that you'll be kicking yourself from not getting. Ludicrous. And also another one I think you'll be kicking yourselves is Jermaine Genis. neither have you said
38:06John Murray:who were the other two that Ali said that I didn't
38:11Ian Dennis:Ferdinand was one, Ali wasn't it Stephen Carr
38:15Ali Bruce-Ball:did you say Stephen Carr yeah I did say Stephen Carr Ginola yeah I mean that's an open goal
38:23Ian Dennis:Andros Townsend is another more recent one and also another one you'll be kicking yourselves you didn't get Kieran Trippier yeah of course so there we are So many. So, Ian, I'm sorry to say, and I know there are extenuating circumstances because of this week's power cut, but that for the defending champion is a disappointing start to the new season.
38:47John Murray:You know, last week you heard a lot of Premier League managers saying we're not up to speed yet. We're yet to find our rhythm.
38:52Ian Dennis:Yeah.
38:53John Murray:Post-World Cup. Yeah. That's a little bit like me at the moment.
38:56Ali Bruce-Ball:We had a bit of money on you not saying Tonali, actually, but you did. We did.
39:00Ian Dennis:We thought you might not say Tonali, that you did, much to the disappointment of the listeners, I suspect. So there we are. So you and me, Ali, are joint top of the table, and Ian is bottom after two rounds of Clash of the Commentators for the new season.
39:21John Murray:John, you talked about VAR having a light touch, and they talk about setting a high bar, don't they, for VAR? Yes. Well, Nathan, our producer, has suggested that we're now going to have a high bar, if you pardon the pun, for the unintended pub name of the week. So only the very best suggestions now will make it.
39:40Ian Dennis:And this week's unintended pub name of the week
39:43John Murray:comes from Kevin in Whitstable.
39:45Ian Dennis:Gravenberg fought to Kumas, Kumas taking it on now, Chow comes across, left side of the area, shoots, but it was deflected away by the recovering Dedich.
39:56John Murray:So Kevin says, I envisage the recovering Dedich to be a pub for those with long-term injuries and going through recovery. I therefore think it would be spacious with neutral interior colours and the smell of hops from the beer would be matched only by the aroma of deep heat. The restaurant food would be wonderful but the menu strict and set by nutritionists to aid regulars recuperation. The beer garden would rightly have no areas for smoking especially as they will interfere with the hot tubs and the cold plunge pools where the regulars would try to increase their muscle strength. P.S. love the opening weekend commentaries but missed hearing Ali on the mic.
40:37John Murray:Most importantly it's great to have TCV back. Life feels normal again. Kevin from Whitstable.
40:45Ian Dennis:I was thinking did you read the quotes from Gary Lineker this week who said that he said podcast listeners now expect the podcast every week. He said you can't take a break from doing the podcast which i have to say having we've just had a break from doing the podcast so that wasn't necessarily the message i wanted to hear go out but anyway it's it's nice to hear that kevin is pleased that we're back but i quite like the description of the pub well after the only
41:11John Murray:two weekends of tcv the the recovering dennis needs to go to the recovering dennis
41:20John Murray:now for our great glossary of football commentary as we build a collection of commentary terms and phrases division one for football exclusive terms and last week we added full house and poker into division two as they are terms used in football commentary but also in other sports jason in sydney australia has got in touch about one of last week's suggestions hello gents welcome back second season syndrome has also been used in other sports when talking about a player or a
41:54Oh, I see.
41:56Ali Bruce-Ball:A manager having a good first season and then the second season. Is that what he means? Joining a new club, but it would have to be. I see. I see. Yeah, sorry. It can't be in your second season syndrome. Can't be in your first season, obviously. Yeah, I understand, Jason. I think we agreed that last week, didn't we? That it's probably another sport. Yes. Two fresh suggestions. We've got this one from Leicester fan Ash. Dear John, Ian and Ali, listening to your podcast has made me realise that I enjoy following sport on the radio far more than I do watching it on television these days. So this season, I've decided to follow my football exclusively on the radio.
42:31Ali Bruce-Ball:And I was thoroughly enjoying John's commentary alongside Michael Brown at Brentford. The Shorts 23-9, aerial duels 21-30. We can go on about stats, possession, yes, Spurs have come into it a little bit more in the second half.
42:44Ian Dennis:but at halftime, John, we discussed, didn't we, how it was really neck and neck on that. Aerial duels sounds like a young player who might have been unearthed from Bolivia, doesn't he?
42:57Ali Bruce-Ball:Ash says, as an airline pilot, I tend to avoid aerial duels for an easy life, but I'll be listening to the podcast all over the world at all hours of the day as I negotiate the trials and tribulations of jet lag. I suspect aerial duel would be a Division II entry, given that the term probably gets plenty of use in basketball, volleyball and other sports. Keep up the good work and long live radio commentary. Hear, hear, Ash. Thank you for the correspondence.
43:22Ian Dennis:I suspect actual aerial duels probably went out with the Red Baron, didn't they? So probably wise for Ash not to get involved in those. Nice to have an airline pilot listening, Ian. Our friend James is an airline pilot as well, isn't he? He, I think, is an occasional listener to the commentator's view.
43:43John Murray:Yes, he is. Yes. And also, Anthony and Cork picked that one out as well and says, Ariel Jewel would be a solid contender for Division 2.
43:52Ian Dennis:Yeah, definitely Division 2. And I presume this is Langers from Andover says, Hello, John, Ian and Ali. Love the insights you bring to the podcast. A word for the glossary, which I don't think has been said. And says Langers, this comes from Mark Scott. at Ipswich Sunderland for Match of the Day.
44:12Ali Bruce-Ball:The last time these two faced each other in the Premier League, Ipswich romped to their biggest ever win in the division when they smashed Sunderland 5-0 here a quarter of a century ago.
44:24Ian Dennis:Langer says romp is probably a Division 2 term, but the only other sport I can think of is how you can romp home in horse racing. What do you think? And I think, yeah, it's definitely a Division 2, isn't it? romp or romped yeah yeah great media i love to romp home yeah yeah yeah yeah i have an entirely different meaning in the tabloid newspapers of the 1980s but we probably don't need to dwell on that
44:53John Murray:sadly we didn't sadly we didn't um see many horses romp when we went to the york eball meeting last week but i forgot to give a shout out and ahead of the new season to the jones boys declan Eamon, Liam, Tim, Danny Jez and Ben Dave, brother-in-law and Kieran who's the mate all the best for the coming season that's from Declan Jones so sorry we didn't get to see you and I hope you had more success than we did.
45:25Ali Bruce-Ball:Just to finish on the glossary then guys just to sort of to sum it up second season syndrome we're all agreeing definitely a div 2 yep Ariel Jewel I think has to be a div 2 as well and romp romp terrific but also also div 2 so that means i think there's only we're only two episodes into the new season but we're still waiting for our first division one entry of the new season so there's a there's a there's a challenge for you oh and here's one for you two chaps uh it's just reminded me of this actually we were doing quite a lot of i don't know if you do this on your summer holidays with our family we were doing header rallies with a with a volleyball in the pool so standing sort of waist deep in the shallow end and seeing how many headers you could put together before the rally falls down.
46:07Ali Bruce-Ball:And I have to congratulate my brother and his son, Max, on breaking the family record this summer and getting to 226 headers, which I think is good. I think it's very good.
46:19Ian Dennis:226 is a good one. It is good, isn't it, John?
46:21Ali Bruce-Ball:I know. I think that might have anything to do with your ear infection. It's got a lot to do with my ear infection. But one of the things I was teaching the boys, not my brother so much because he's only a couple of years younger than me and so has, you know, been there, seen it, heard it, done it and all the rest, was heading back and across the goalkeeper, heading the cross back where it came from. You know, the idea is the goalkeeper's coming across the line to his left and the cross has come in from the left, so you head it back the other way, so he's wrong-footed and whatever. And my son Rory and my nephew Max sort of said, I've never heard that, I've never heard that.
46:56Ali Bruce-Ball:I said, oh, come on, that will be said every single weekend of the season. I said, you know, the next time you're listening or watching a game, message me as soon as you hear that that will be said it, you know, that's a classic glossary for me
47:08Ian Dennis:Yes, also back and to the left is, reminds me of our trip to Dealey Plaza during the summer, Dealey Plaza
47:18Ali Bruce-Ball:yeah, that's the key moment isn't it, in that Oliver Stone film with the Zubrida film where they keep, yeah, back and to the left back and to the left
47:26John Murray:yeah, so that's it then, isn't it
47:28Ali Bruce-Ball:oh, we haven't had John's Hooray no No. No. Apparently you only get the hooray if it's a Div 1 entry. Oh, I see. Yeah, stick in the carrot this season. Right, OK. So Division 2 entries, thank you very much and keep them coming in. But Division 1 will get you a John Murray hooray. And I think that's right because it's quite special, that.
47:52Ian Dennis:Producer Nathan is running a tight ship this season, isn't he? Only hoorays for Division 1 entries and only the one unintended pub name of the week.
48:03John Murray:So that concludes Episode 2 of Season 3 of the TCV. So, John, enjoy your weekend. And Ali, enjoy your weekend behind the mic presenting 5 Live Sport.
48:14Ali Bruce-Ball:Thank you. Thank you very much.
48:15John Murray:Questions and correspondence, always welcome anytime to tcv at bbc.co.uk. or you can send us a message or voice note on WhatsApp to 08000 289 369. And the next episode of the Football Daily will be Tom Greenan in conversation with the Coventry boss, Frank Lampard.
48:35Ali Bruce-Ball:It's Grennan, isn't it? I think he's changed his name this season like Savio. I think it was Greenan. He's changed it to Grennan, I think.
48:45Ian Dennis:You could go and see Tom Greenan with the Coutoneers.
48:49John Murray:so much sport today and all the goals as they go in up and down the league this is five live
48:56Ian Dennis:sports it's all eyes to the lights and fit to the floor to bowl him it's not this stop out everyone's standing around the 18th green he shows to the center and the right hand and the former champion is down
49:12John Murray:it's extraordinary stuff they've done a show for us tonight he gets on his knees and kisses the turf 5 Live Sports
49:20Ali Bruce-Ball:the home of the world's
49:22John Murray:greatest sporting events the full time with them
49:28Ali Bruce-Ball:listen on BBC Sounds
49:38Ian Dennis:a first to listen to your favourite shows like Evil Genius, Good Bad Billionaire and You're Dead to Me with a subscription to BBC Podcasts Premium on Apple Podcasts. You can also enjoy a range of our podcasts ad-free with an Amazon Music subscription.
From the publisher
John Murray, Ian Dennis & Ali Bruce-Ball discuss life as football commentators. How are they coping with VAR in their ears? Are they going for ‘Sávio’ or ‘Savinho’? John’s made it into the Beano. And is it time to scrap the UEFA Champions League draw? All that and round two of Clash of the Commentators, plus will we see a division one entry in the Great Glossary of Football Commentary? Messages and voicenotes welcome on WhatsApp to 08000 289 369 & emails to TCV@bbc.co.uk
02:20 John’s lump in his throat at Newcastle, 08:00 5 Live commentaries this weekend, 13:20 Sávio or Savinho? 15:00 How are they coping with VAR in their ears? 19:00 What’s a ‘Viduka’ and TCV helps you pass! 23:10 John’s in the Beano! 26:00 Bodø/Glimt back in the Champions League! 28:25 Should the UCL draw be scrapped? 31:30 Will Ian power-up in Clash of the Commentators? 40:05 Great Glossary of Football Commentary.
5 Live / BBC Sounds commentaries: Sat 1500 Coventry v Hull, Sat 1500 Bournemouth v Everton on Sports Extra 2, Sat 1730 Spurs v Newcastle, Sun 1400 Chelsea v Brighton & Hove, Sun 1400 Leeds v Brentford on Sports Extra 2, Sun 1400 Sunderland v Fulham on Sports Extra 3 Sun 1630 Man Utd v Ipswich.
Great Glossary of Football Commentary: DIVISION ONE 50p head Agricultural challenge, Back of the net, Back to square one, Backside and elbows, Booked, Bosman, Bullet header, Caretaker manager, Channel of joy, Coupon buster, Cruyff Turn, Cultured/educated left foot, Dead-ball specialist, Draught excluder, Elastico/flip-flap, False nine, Fox in the box, Giving the goalkeeper the eyes, Grub hunter, Head like a biscuit tin, Head like a sheriff’s badge, Head tennis, Hibs it, In a good moment, In behind, Lollipop, Magic of the FA Cup, The Maradona, Off their line, Olimpico, Onion bag, Panenka, Parachute payment, Park the bus, Perfect hat-trick, Postage stamp, Put his cap on it, Rabona, Roy of the Rovers stuff, Schmeichel-style, Scorpion kick, Spursy, Stick it in the mixer, Sweeper keeper, Taking it to the corner flag, Target man, Tiki-taka, Towering header, Trivela, Where the kookaburra sleeps, Where the owl sleeps, Where the spiders sleep.
