TCV Q&A: Radio vs TV & corpsing on-air

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0:40The Commentator's View on The Football Daily with Alistair Bruce Ball, John Murray and Ian Dennis. Hello, this is The Football Daily. I'm Alistair Bruce Ball and welcome to this special edition of The Commentator's View. As we five live commentators this week are dedicating this episode to answering your questions, the listeners' questions. There are so many that come in on the emails, the WhatsApps and the voice notes. Email tcv at bbc.co.uk. John Murray is here. Ian Dennis is here. Hello, chaps. I'm going to get to the first one in a second. I just wanted to ask you both before we start, what is the question you get asked the most about your job?

1:24I think two that I get asked. One is, what's the best match you've ever commentated on? Yes. which you regularly get asked. And the other one, strangely, is, I'm always amazed how often I get asked, how far in advance do you know which matches you're going to commentate on? I feel like I get asked that all the time. And I don't think it's a very interesting answer, which is, well, the answer is, as you well know, maybe two or three weeks. Well, I know that, but I'm thinking the listener, then we're thinking, well, what's the answer? You couldn't leave the listener hanging there to your own question, could you?

2:00No, well, exactly. But people are fascinated, John. I think the reason for that question, by the minutiae of it, by the practicalities of it, because probably quite a lot of people who ask that question get up and go to work Monday to Friday and just know exactly what's coming. But actually, yeah, I don't know. And probably maybe try and put themselves in your shoes and think, oh, if I got that call getting told I was going to the Arctic Circle in a couple of weeks, how exciting. Well, I think I would find the question I get is how did you get into it? How did you become a football commentator?

2:31What would you say? Do they ask in the style of, how did you get into that?

2:41Or, how did you get into that? But you've got that great story, haven't you, Ian? That great letter, haven't you, that you wrote to John Motson, which is a lovely way to sort of frame that and tell that story. Yeah, yeah. And that was from 1988. and often when I sometimes if I talk to students I actually say it doesn't matter whether you want to be a commentator whatever path you choose to go down that the two attributes that he said determination and enthusiasm I think applies to to any walk of life in that respect. I quite often get asked I'm sure you do too about the people we work with who's the who's the who do you like working with the most who's your favorite summarizer who was tricky interviewees who was great who was difficult you know that i quite often get asked about the the personalities by the way i'm not answering we know we know the answer to that it's statman dave and chris son walk straight into that one uh emails tcb at bbc.co.uk voice notes uh voice notes even 08000 289 369 and we are going to start this episode with one of those good morning gentlemen humble Rick here from the FPL podcast.

3:53And I was much intrigued by the recent comment of the flip down desks at the Valley. And I wondered if the commentators, the three amigos that you are, could offer any other insights of any other football grounds that have unique commentator either positions or comfy seats or unique desks, or perhaps the view is quite unusual from that particular gantry. Love the pod. Happy New Year to you. I appreciate it's well past January. Ta. Just to explain very quickly, Humble Rick, so yes, first came across Rick on the FPL podcast from BBC Sport. He was going rather well one season. Chris thought he was showing off a bit, so called him Humble Rick.

4:36And Rick is actually an actor by trade and plays the doctor in Coronation Street, whenever a doctor is required. Rick, he's a Cardiff fan and often phones into 6062. That is a great question. Go on, chaps, then. unique commentary position. So what Rick's referring to there is I went to the valley where I'd not been to for ages, and I don't think I've ever sat in a seat like we do at the valley where you sit in your seat and then you have a desk, a sort of flat surface that you lift out of a slot to the right of your seat, and then it slams down in front of you. So it's almost like sitting in a baby's high chair.

5:10It's like that surface in front of you, and once it slams down, you're locked in and you can't really move. It's unusual. A bit like getting into position in Apollo 6. Yeah, but also they're lethal, the way they drop. They're really heavy. If you had your fingers in the wrong place when one of those comes down, you know, that's going to hurt. A couple of favourites that are a bit different. Do you remember Carroll Road for a spell? I've commented in lots of different places in Carroll Road, but one of them was the sort of double seats where you share it. The seats are kind of connected. and if you've summarized as swings then you swing as well which is slightly off-putting and annoyingly they've put them in at everton as well in the new stadium there are the sort of double seats which are not my favorite no uh and also i always enjoy at selhurst park where the commentary position the press box which is where we are has sort of stripped wooden floor but the seats that give us there have got casters on the bottom so you sort of slide around during the during the course of a match on your seat on the casters which i quite like so the more exciting the matches the more you're sliding around on the casters i'm trying to think of uh unusual positions from the gantry you know unusual views the old ground at rotherham united at millmore to get onto their gantry was a test because you'd have to walk up a ladder you then had to duck under a beam at the same time there was a slightly raised bit so whilst you had to sort of like stoop to get your head under the beam at the same time you had to climb through i always found that quite awkward for somebody who's over six foot to get to the old gantry at millmore i do love commentary positions as well where you can see outside the stadium so you can sort of describe what's going on in the outside world while the football is going on so so turf more immediately springs to mind there you You get a fantastic view across the countryside and the hills and the cricket ground, isn't it?

7:18So that one. And the other one, which one is it, chaps? You'll have been there more recently than me. Is it the Dragao where they've got that gap between? Yeah, exactly. You can see out of the stadium. I love that. You can see the Douro. Yeah. That is a real, that's one of the great views from a commentary position. Yeah. One of the greatest views I had, I remember, was at the World Cup in South Korea in Jeju Island. when you had a view out to what was, is that the South China Sea? And also there were rocky islands off the coast. It was like a sort of James Bond style backdrop that we had. Scaramanga.

7:58It was. It was one of the great views that I've had from a commentary position, Matt. Yeah. But you also did Maratimo, John. Yeah. The floating flower pot out in Madeira, which offered great views. It did. the floating flower pot what's that all about that was how i described when leeds played maritimo i said welcome to the floating flower pot of uh of madeira because it was maritimo against leeds united and that's how i described um obviously all the the vegetation that the flowers it was uh yeah it offered uh quite a colorful i thought description of the island i think as well do Do you remember when we covered England playing in Trinidad?

8:42I remember, I think you could see the outline of Venezuela from Trinidad, unless I'm getting there, unless I'm remembering this completely. But I think the coast of Venezuela is not far from Trinidad, I think. The other one I remember is Northern Ireland went with Danny Wilson to go and watch them play the Faroe Islands away from home. and that game in my mind felt like it was played it was it was it was played on top of a cliff top and it felt like school sports day honestly it was so low-key there was no one there and if you booted the ball off at one end of the pitch I know it wasn't strictly true but it felt like the ball just disappeared off into the ocean and down the cliff face it was so remote it was so unusual um that that was a that was a great experience so that's a great a great question Rick good start Actually, on a similar theme, Steve from Brighton loved the podcast and thoroughly enjoyed listening to the Jonathan Pearce Robert Wars episode.

9:40Of course, you can always go back and listen to any of the previous episodes through BBC Sounds. I met JP briefly when watching Brighton at the Withdean Stadium, an athletic stadium that Brighton used back in the mid 2000s. 2000s we both laughed that we were there at the time stood on a running track and there was a long jump sandpit a few yards from the dugout very different from the amex stadium be interested to know if any of the tcv team were lucky enough to commentate at the with dean yeah i did i did um and it's exactly as as steve describes it again i mean on the school sports day theme because of the running track or whatever that was just you know uh soulless it was it was it was not it wasn't a great place to play or commentate on.

10:26But in a way, sort of bonded Brighton fans together because they were... I saw Bobby Zamora score goals there, for example, for Brighton. I didn't commentate it with Dean Stadium, but that actually makes me think when you talk about soulless, the tie that's coming up between Newcastle and Carabao could have been Newcastle against Monaco. And that is one of my least favourite stadiums to commentate in the Monaco Stadium because the atmosphere never seems to be very good there. And you're a long way from the Peters and Athletics track. It's a small stadium. So that would be on my list of least favourite places to commentate on.

11:09So when they were drawn out against Carabag, which is going to be, that's going to be an experience in itself when we go there for the first leg of Newcastle's tie. I've already done my visa for that. so I have to say, even though we will be travelling all the way across Europe to the Caspian Sea coast, I'd rather be commentating there than in Monaco, all due respect to Monaco, of course. I always felt for, so when I first started out at BBC Radio Bristol, covered half Rovers, half City, you know, we didn't have a, well, it was changed up actually in the time I was there, we didn't have a correspondent for each club, you did a mixture of both, which basically meant you were hated by both sets of fans because you couldn't get anything right.

11:52But I always felt a bit sorry for Bristol Rovers at the Memorial Stadium because it's a rugby arena more than it's a football arena and there's too many gaps there and it was so difficult to build atmosphere there. I quite like that. I quite like the Memorial ground. Yeah, yeah. Good pasties. That shocked you. Oh, the pie, the pie Steve Bruce and I had at Old Trafford. Oh, that was good the other day. Very, very good. Very good. Richard in Baldock says, hi guys, great show. I always listen to you on the pod on a Monday while doing my decorating. Listening to the great Jonathan Pierce reminisce reminded me of when I went to watch Hull City with my dad.

12:36This has just brought something into my mind. So Richard says, when he went to watch Hull City with his dad, when I was about 10, back in 1969-70, I was sitting on the perimeter wall when one of the bobbies patrolling the perimeter of the pitch told me to get off. You can't sit there, son. How times have changed. Also, as a very young lad, I regularly went to the Hawthorns to see West Brom play with my dad. And he made me a wooden step. We took it into the ground so I could stand on it and see over the other supporters' heads. Can you imagine trying to take a lump of wood into a ground these days?

13:17Again, how times have changed. Do you have any similar stories to this? I think people used to do that at Sunderland, at Roker Park, if I remember rightly. Is that right, Ian? What, take wooden steps onto the terrace? Yeah, because I think at Roker Park, I think I'm right in saying the pitch, the bottom of the terrace was almost a step lower than the pitch. and I think they did used to hook these wooden steps on so that kids could stand on the step and see up over and onto the pitch. The reason that it triggered a memory for me, Booth Free Park, one of my early commentaries, I went to commentate there and if you remember, it was a rare thing in that it was actually a commentary box and it was an enclosed box you commentated inside the box which had a big glass window on it And on this occasion, I went to Boothbury Park to commentate on this match.

14:13It was a foggy, misty day and the mist came in. And also the box, the glass on the front of the commentary box became full of condensation because it was a dank winter's day. So it was misty stroke foggy outside. and also you couldn't see out of the box because of the condensation on the window in the commentary box. It was one of the most difficult commentaries I've ever done. There's a question as well. Commentary boxes inside as opposed to being outside. Oh, Southend. Southend. In fact, it was against Hull City. And I remember because the night before, I actually stayed in the hotel where Steve Bruce, who Ali worked with recently was the manager and uh I just popped up into the bar for it for a drink and a bit of food and he said oh come and join us so we ended up having a drink with the the backroom staff and then he said I've got to disappear I've got the team meeting if you want to come in and eat with us then feel free anyway I said no no I wouldn't I wouldn't I wouldn't impinge but I actually had breakfast with him and the players the next morning and then did the commentary and then if you've ever done the game at roots hall they shoehorn all the radio commentators into this commentary box behind glass and we were in there for a three o 'clock game by about 12 30 i was with david pleat and i really struggled to get out afterwards i'd been in there that long it was so cramped and then i had to drive about six hours home or whatever it was i really struggled my i had cramp in my legs pleaty actually had cramp as well what is it he said i've got cramp that is that is probably the most congested commentary box i think i've ever worked in i've done a few commentaries there over the years not for a long time now but i remember one of the commentaries there as you say and there were several different commentary teams in the box and uh and i remember at one point when i wasn't on taking my headphones off in the box and it was an absolute cacophony of commentary it was like being in some sort of middle eastern market it was it was it was an extraordinary noise the old ashton gate um which has been drastically improved now but you used to be uh in a commentary box there behind glass sitting on funny little narrow benches that that was not uh ideal and i think i think swindon's county ground as well.

16:50I seem to remember being inside commentating there. I think they've taken the window out there now, I think. So you do actually have a... you're not inside as it were. The Dell at Southampton was behind glass as well, wasn't it? It was. That was very tight, wasn't it? Oh, it was, yeah. I remember going over to watch Mulder against Rangers in a game in probably... what would that have been in? It must have been UEFA Cup, probably, as was then, and being shown into because they didn't have the space in the stadium at the time so i was in a director's box effectively um and was sort of set up uh in there so it's a bizarre experience of sort of carpeted floors and and fridge and tvs while sort of trying to peer out the window and probably like a lot of people watch their football nowadays in the premier league ashton gate also makes me think of famous landmarks that can be seen from commentary positions yeah that's good job so ashton gate clifton suspension bridge from the commentary box at lincoln city at cinsel bank you can see lincoln cathedral yeah up high away to your right that's that's that's a great view yeah absolutely that's a good one that's a good one and in fact john you mentioned about you've commentated in different positions at carrow road the stand opposite the main stand for a time we actually commentated that's right at the very top and i'm sure you could see the cathedral and see link you can see norwich cathedral you can yeah you'd you'd do well to see linking cathedral from norwich didn't that famously i'm going to say something stupid here now didn't that famously replace the pyramids of giza as the tallest man-made structure in the world at one point lincoln cathedral yeah i think so i think so i think i could be making that up.

18:43Why do I say things like that while I've got a microphone in front of me? By the way, I did take a chance there to reach across to my Collins family atlas of the world, and indeed the island of Trinidad is very close to the coast of Venezuela. Right, well done. Just to interrupt the Q &A for a second, just to preview what we've got coming up for you on 5 Live and BBC Sounds this weekend, in terms of the football. Before I do that, though, Nathan has just posted in the script here, Lincoln Cathedral, with its central spire added in 1311, was the first structure to surpass the Great Pyramid of Giza in height, officially becoming the world's tallest building for 238 years.

19:29There we go. So that's stuck in my head for me. That's a great fact. Yeah. I think that's come from doing Lincoln Ipswich in the FA Cup. Do you remember Lincoln as an on-league team on that brilliant run? And obviously was at the ground, saw the cathedral, looked it up. That's probably where that's come from. That is a great run to have as the world's tallest building. 238 years. Yeah. It says there, John, a title it held until the spy collapsed in 1549. Maybe for a future Clash of the Commentators, the question could be structures that have been the world's tallest building at one stage or another one of my boys had top trumps I would look that out actually in case Nathan gets any ideas because I think we had a pack of top trumps of world's tallest buildings I might go and try and find that anyway talking Lincoln and FA Cup it takes us on very nicely to the weekend's football loads of commentaries coming your way on 5 Live and BBC Sounds so we have We've got Ian is first up, Friday night, 7.45, Hull against Chelsea.

20:41In-form Hull, flying in the championship against Chelsea. John, Saturday, 12.15. So, John, you're not going back to Macclesfield for this round, so I'm going to Macclesfield on the Monday night for Macclesfield-Brentford. You are. You will enjoy that. I cannot wait for that. Burton Albion-West Ham for you, Saturday, 12.15. I've got an early double like I did in the third round, which I very much enjoyed when I went from Macclesfield to Derby. In this fourth round, the early kickoff between Burton and West Ham, and then on the Sunday, the early kickoff between Birmingham and Leeds. And then straight after that, it's off to Azerbaijan.

21:21So I'll actually miss the match on the Monday night. So I'll be travelling to Azerbaijan from Birmingham to Baku. yeah Baku beyond Saturday 3 o 'clock we're going around the grounds so not got a commentary game there we're going to go around the grounds and just fly to wherever the story is Saturday 5.45 Aston Villa against Newcastle now that will start on Sports Extra because the Six Nations is obviously underway so the Scotland England rugby commentary will be on 5 live to begin with Villa Newcastle will then move on to 5 live a little bit later on Saturday 8 o 'clock kick off times again all across the weekend.

22:02Liverpool, Brighton, that is myself and Paul Robinson. Birmingham leads Sunday midday. John and Clinton and Grimsby Wolves at half one on the Sunday. Guy Mowbray and Dave Edwards. I think we've got a question actually, linking to that, coming up in the pod a little bit later on, so stay tuned for that. And actually Ian, so you're on the Sunday of FA Cup fourth round weekend, you're actually going to be doing big game in the Scottish Premiership because you're doing Rangers Hearts, which kicks off at 4.30 on the Sunday, which is a crap. That title race is fabulous, isn't it? It is, yeah. There's been a few twists and turns of late, so we'll see what the latest instalment is at Ibrox.

22:43Yeah. And I'm sure listeners there, having mentioned, Ali, that Guy Mowbray is going to be commentating on the radio, I think that will have piqued the interest of those who hear this before that match is actually played. It'd be interesting to hear from Guy how he enjoys doing a radio commentary again. Yeah, so we have had correspondence on that. Let's take it on to that in this Q &A episode. So this is, Kieran has sent us a voice note. So Kieran's in Vancouver and he's got in touch. My question is regarding radio versus TV commentary. I love hearing the football every weekend on the radio, but I have also noticed people like Connor who do match of the day commentary.

23:27So why have you stuck to radio yourselves? And why do some people like to do both? What are the main differences and nuances between the two? Really love to find out more insight into your respective decisions on how you've gone about it and how the different challenges of them. Thanks a lot. Interesting. Yeah, I think my answer to this would be, I think people would think it's the same thing you're commentating on a football match and obviously many of the principles are the same but it is dramatic I think it's dramatically different commentating on a match on the television as opposed to commentating on a match on the radio and actually if I could say it I think a lot of the people who make the decisions about you know who's going to commentate on on matches radio tv don't necessarily appreciate that do you um ian when you've done television commentary do you enjoy it as much as radio commentary because john's right it's a completely different discipline i mean first and foremost i think everyone knows this but whenever i've done match the day and then and watch a little bit of it back i talk way too much because i'm just doing it you know because i'm so used to doing radio and filling every second and describing everything and obviously television that is not the way to do it When Kieran talks about, you know, the different nuances to the two styles, obviously for radio, you've got to talk all the time.

24:50But for me, the better TV commentaries to listen to are those when the commentators don't talk all the time and they let the game breathe, personally speaking. So therefore, when I have done sort of like my bits on Match of the Day, I was actually told I'd gone too much the other way. I needed to actually talk too much. they said oh can you hear little you talk more than you actually are i was told that as well and i actually didn't agree yeah i felt that i felt that i was talking enough um but also you've got to talk to the pitchers as well and i actually i don't enjoy doing match of the day highlights because the thing is is that when i do my commentary for the radio everything goes out and i know whether i've done a good commentary or a bad commentary the thing is with match of the day and the highlights, you don't actually see it until it's put out, obviously, at 10.30 at night or whatever the time is.

25:45But you can have a bad commentary, but a good editor who can stitch your words together and make you sound better than you probably were. Or equally, you can have a good commentary, but a bad editor who then does a hatchet job on your commentary. And so until you actually see the final edit go out, are you actually happy with the end product, so to speak? I think it's quite tricky now for young commentators as well, because very often young commentators are asked to do both TV and radio. And I think when you are making your way as a commentator, that's quite a difficult thing to have to do that balance.

26:23and I've now not commentated on a TV match for quite a long time but I remember when you had to try and find the balance it was tricky and it kind of messed with your mind a little when it came to, you know, one day you'd be doing TV and the next day you'd be doing radio. There's also a difference, Kieran, I think, and I've not done this yet but between doing commentary for match of the day which you know is going to be highlights and actually doing a 90-minute commentary full game. So when you do match of the day, you are obviously doing a 90-minute commentary, but they're going to take the – and you know you have to nail the big moments because you know that's all that's going to get seen.

27:01Red cards, goals, controversy, whatever, which sort of puts a little bit more – I think I was saying last week, John, the thing I – I think we were talking about your Macclesfield Palace commentary. The thing I really enjoy about listening to a whole radio commentary is it's not just those moments. You get the whole story, the whole narrative, the whole picture. but actually doing a 90-minute commentary so funny enough at the world cup coming this summer i'm actually going to do for the first time ever do a first couple of games for bbc television at the world cup full 90-minute games but i've never done that so i really need to go and pick the brains of people like connor who do that regularly and switch between the two and sort of get the feel for for how to do that quite a big difference as well is for us if we are doing radio commentary and then doing commentary for match of the day on the television is that for a radio commentary you will have a summarizer so you've got someone to react to and bounce off and actually talk to and i really enjoy that aspect of radio commentary working with whoever the summarizer is but then when you step into doing match of the day i often used to think because you're just on your own.

28:14You're commentating for highlights. I used to sit there and think, I'm talking to myself. I'm sitting here talking to myself about a football match. And it just feels really odd. And you do get to the point where you start, you begin to ask yourself questions during the commentary. Yeah. But also the other lovely thing about radio commentary, and I think, I mean, any of the games we do, but particularly if you do Ian's slot Saturday, three o 'clock is when you're doing match of the day, you're in a bubble. you're only doing that game you're not doing context of what else is going on around you and I love doing a 5 Live commentary when you're getting the updates from the other games and you're doing the rugby and the cricket and you know that the whole world is you know the world of sport is going on at the same time whereas when you're doing Match of the Day you're so plugged into just one game and what it means there it's a slightly different experience in that sense My name's Steve Bradnell assistant manager at Royal Oak FC You may have seen me online going viral.

29:13Viral sensation. And now the BBC have given me the chance to set the footballing world bang to rise. This could be a great opportunity for us, lads, a podcast for the BBC. Can I just say, what's a podcast? Brilliant. Great start. Well done, Bob. Brilliant. We can completely show utter transparency to Royal Oak fans. I'll use my charm. Gift it, Gab. Games got the Steve Bracknell podcast. Watch on YouTube. Listen on BBC Sounds. If there was a big red button that would just demolish the internet, I would smash that button with my forehead. From the BBC, this is The Interface, the show that explores how tech is rewiring your week and your world.

30:00This isn't about quarterly earnings or about tech reviews. It's about what technology is actually doing to your work, your politics, your everyday life. And all the bizarre ways people are using the Internet. Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.

30:20The Commentator's View on the Football Daily with Alistair Bruce Ball, John Murray and Ian Dennis. How about this one from Stoke fan George? George, hello TCV, as a big Formula One fan, I've got lots of memories of being glued to the television listening to the late Murray Walker commentate and his regular Murrayisms, my favourite being with half the race... I was about to try and do an impression there, I won't actually. With half the race gone, there is half the race to go. One of my favourite moments though is when he switches up his sports to commentate on snooker on an old episode of the Jeremy Clarkson talk show.

30:57The thing I have always wanted to commentate on more than anything else, you're going to laugh at this, is snooker. I'm not going to laugh because I've got a microphone here. Can you take that, a proper microphone? And we've got a clip here of some snooker. And I'd like you to give it the Murray Walker treatment. Can I stand up? Because I always stand up. No, no, do by all means stand. By all means. Can we run this clip then and let's have Murray's interpretation of it? And here we are, that's Ronnie O'Sullivan, and this man is absolutely sensational. He's using the special high-grip chalk on his cue, and that cue itself is a very high-tech piece of equipment.

31:39Now, watch him. Which ball is he going to hit? He's going to hit the white ball, and he's going to hit straight on the yellow ball, and back goes the cue and slam! He's missed it! He's missed it! Fantastic!

31:54Brilliant. George says, this got me wondering, if there was a sport you've not commentated on, but would want to, what would it be and why? Are there any you haven't done? Because we've done a few. Yeah, between us, we've commentated on a lot of sports. What have I not done? Well, I've not done Formula One. Yeah. Has anyone ever fancied boxing? I have commentated on boxing. Have you? Yeah, have you? I commentated on a Glenn McCrory fight in local radio difficult isn't it we had some brilliant boxing commentators down the years on 5 Live but I think that's a really hard sport to do I think that I don't know what you two think but for me the hardest commentary has got to be horse racing because they've got and I've got so much admiration for John Hunt who I think is absolutely outstanding but they've got half an hour to prepare and particularly in the big fields you know like i don't know at newmarket on the flat in the summer where you've got maybe over 20 horses racing down over say seven furlongs and you've got to pick out the different silks and then to get it right as well they very very rarely and i listen to a lot of horse racing commentary i'm big big fan of the sport and i listen to a lot during the week and what have you and they very rarely get it wrong any of the commentators you'd never hear them make a mistake very rarely i think that is an example of where a commentator will train their brain to deal with commentating on horse races so my guess is that you've got to kind of load your brain up with that information in a very short period of time and then get rid of it and put in another 20 horses or whatever it happens to be i know but even still i mean for instance like there's a guy in ireland called jerry hannon who is terrific.

33:52But you think of the Gordon Elliott silks, which is the maroon with the white star on the front. There might be four jockeys who are wearing those silks, and the only thing to differentiate the jockeys is the colour of the helmet. Might be white, might be blue, and to pick them out in a blur, travelling at such speed. I would love to have a go, but I know I wouldn't be very good at it. Yeah. No, I definitely couldn't do it, and I marvel at, yeah, like you say. I mean, and also it's that lovely, you know, you've got to measure the pace of your commentary, haven't you, and make sure you don't hit 10 at the top.

34:30And, you know, John Hunt's build of a race, you know, from a few films out to the finish, that's something you've really – I'm sure, again, that comes with practice, but that is expertise, isn't it? My guess would be that you've commentated on more sports, Ali. well actually on that theme we've got this voice note from adam in london my question for the commentators is how do you guys get involved in other sports i know that john and ali do golf and ali does cycling den only does football why is that really interested to understand how it's decided within five live or in your careers if you'll get to experience other sports on an ongoing basis or whether it's ad hoc or whether it's kind of just fitted in as part of your contract I suppose it'd be really interesting to know and as a Rangers fan I hope you guys are excited for the end of the Scottish Premiership title race it's some league best league in Europe and let's hope Rangers do it keep up the good work cheers I don't know how you for example John but I mean one of my great joys of working at Five Live is being on the Five Live golf team which I've done for sort of 20 years or so and I do remember arriving at Five Live and it wasn't quite you were sat down and right what sports can you do what sports do you want to do but But football was obviously won, but you knew that was going to be very competitive.