TCV: Tuchel talks Trent, Clinton clasps & Gerónimo!

14:49Ian Dennis:Yeah, that would have also caught my eye if Ian turned up trousers, shoes, and no socks.

14:58John Murray:Well, Ali, as you know, the big man doesn't miss anything. And let's swiftly move on from that, because as John says, he's been talking to Thomas Tuchel, who's named his squad for the upcoming Nations League fixtures. And the headlines are Cole Palmer, Trent Alexander-Ranold are in, Phil Foden again misses out, and John's been chatting to the England manager. So let's first hear from him on why England couldn't beat Argentina to reach the World Cup final. It is a difficult road to go down to and trying to find this one puzzle piece that was missing. First of all, I think we are closing the gap constantly.

15:37We need to recognize the record that we have now, how close we are. We arrive in finals, we arrive in semifinals, we win bronze medals in Euros and World Cups consecutively, but we don't push it over the line. We have to acknowledge that as well. to look for this one thing that was missing. I think that's a very difficult, maybe impossible road to go down. We're looking at a lot of things. So you look at the fatigue of players, you look at the season that they come from, we look at our very demanding style of play that we had in the tournament. That is also our biggest strength. We look at travel fatigue, we look at miles and planes, We look at substitutions, we look at formations, we look at training, recovery, sleep.

16:32Is it one thing? I doubt it. I think it's very complex. Don't underestimate the element of luck in football. Maybe we did nothing wrong. It was just like the cross with the right foot from Messi. I didn't see him do that often. I mean, you can torture yourself with these reviews and with trying to analyse it. I can assure everyone that we are very critical, very critical about ourselves. But I have to say to a certain degree and then we focus on the 90-95 % that ever went so well and keep pushing from there.

17:13Ian Dennis:And for this squad, first squad post-World Cup, it seems strange that the inclusion of a Real Madrid player will attract a lot of attention. But Trent Alexander-Arnold, again, you mentioned behaviour. You say you want to see the best version of him. He's only played, I think, about, well, less than half an hour of football for you as the England manager. Do you feel you've not seen the best version of him with England? No, for sure not. For sure not. So otherwise he would have been in camp with us straight away again. But on and off the pitch. I'm not even blaming him. It was in a difficult, difficult window for him, for all of us.

17:49We didn't play well. And he just managed, even emotionally, but also physically, his switch from Liverpool, which was not easy in the end, if you remember, into Real Madrid, which is never easy, I think, to enter a club of that size. So was it always fair? Maybe not, from my side. But if you remember, the next camp was September. And we were suddenly flying. We stick to the same squad in October. And that was basically it for him. So there was never a chance for him to come back, be it fair or not fair. I just trusted the guys who were in camp and I had evidence for. So Jordan Henderson said it so, so impressively well before the match against France.

18:34You just never know when your next England match is coming. So guys, this is it. This is the next England match. You play to the fullest. you show up with the right attitude and you give it all because you never know. It's not even a shout out to Trent, it's a shout out to everyone. That's a mentality that we want to have. If you come to camp, it's not an international break, it's an international window. And this is important and this matters. And you don't come to relax, you don't come to take a break, you come to perform. And it's difficult to perform for England. and the guys who perform now, they have our trust.

19:16And the guys who come new into camp, yeah, we demand the highest of them. It includes Trent, but it's not exclusively for him. That's for everyone who comes to our camps.

19:26John Murray:It's not exclusively for Trent, but it seems as if he can't help but feel it is directed towards him.

19:33Ian Dennis:You do feel that. And I think also, would Trent Alexander-Arnold actually have been in this squad if Rhys James had not been injured, which he is, and Ben White as well, and Jed Spence too. But the fact that they're not in this squad means that Trent Alexander-Arnold has this opportunity, and that sounded like a very clear message to him from the England manager. And I think more widely, Ali, I was so interested to see what Thomas Tuchel was going to be like today, how he was going to approach this. I know he's done some in-house interviews with the FBA, which were released earlier this week. But this is when he was speaking to the media at large, the wider media, and whether he would dwell on what happened, whether it would be all, well, let's move on, let's turn the page, etc., etc.

20:22Ian Dennis:I think we saw a little bit of both of that. But I thought the word that he used, I thought really put his finger on how I felt, I think, how many England fans will feel about what happened and how it ended for England. And that was unfulfilled. He used the word unfulfilled. And I thought, you know what? That is absolutely. Because even though, you know, we had the thrills and stills with England, even though there was then that extraordinary final match against France, and yes, England can say, finished in third, highest finisher of World Cup since 1966. I'm afraid the memory that stays with me from that World Cup was that it slipped away in that half hour.

21:03Ian Dennis:It was there. England were 1-0 up. And for all of those variety of reasons that he outlined there, when I asked him about whether he had made conclusions about what happened, that in the end, the feeling was unfulfilled.

21:19Ali Bruce-Ball:Yeah, I mean, I remember listening to you, you know, to the commentary in the summer and that last 20 minutes and those closing stages. And yes, and feeling exactly that with England. And now, I don't know about you guys, but in terms of where this international window now sits and we go into Nations League games, and I know England's first game, you know, is against Spain, which is a really sort of mouthwatering fixture. You know, by that final performance in the World Cup, they did end it on a high. But I almost put that game to one side, in a sense, because it wasn't the semi-final. It's not the be-all and end-all.

22:04Ali Bruce-Ball:Finishing third in a World Cup, yes, is an achievement. But to me, that's a semi-final defeat. I don't really think about third or fourth. Four games in quick succession here. and I feel with the sort of England supporting public at large, there's a bit of work to be done, isn't there, to win back some support.

22:24John Murray:And yet when you listen to Thomas Tuchel, he says that 99 % of the supporters aren't talking about that half an hour against Argentina. He says that they're talking about the fight back against DR Congo. They're talking about the game against Mexico. They're talking about the extra time win against Norway. and yet from my point of view is and i was watching the game as a fan like john i still reflect on that on that 30 minutes where we didn't seem to take any risks we we surrendered it we relinquished we relinquished any and i speak we as a as an english an england fan i felt that we had an opportunity or england had an opportunity and they didn't take it and i felt that the substitutions that he made were negative.

23:13John Murray:And I said at the time on Five Live that if you look back to the Croatia game, which was in the balance, he made positive changes in that first game, which they ultimately went on to win by four goals to two. On this occasion, he made defensive changes and it came back to bite them.

23:29Ian Dennis:I think on that night, as I said at the time, I think he lost a percentage of the constituency of England fans. And I think they'll take a lot of winning back round. And probably the only way they will be won back round is if England actually win a trophy. And in terms of why it happened, I thought the thing that stood out to me today, and he mentioned it there in the interview, but he also referred to England not being what he called the most economical team. He said, and that's because of the Premier League. He said, you have to max out. And he said, he felt that the team, the England team at the World Cup, maxed out in every single game.

24:09Ian Dennis:But I think the point he's making is that the maxing out of England players is not the same capacity as the maxing out of players in other teams because of the intensity of the Premier League. That's how I understood it. Ian, did you feel the same way about that?

24:28John Murray:Yeah, I probably would actually, yeah. Just to say as well that Sammy Mockbell was here for the BBC Sport website. So the ins and the outs of the squad, Don't need to go through now. You can check that out on the BBC Sport website. And also, I'm going to ask you two a question, actually, about the Nations League. But England start against Spain at home. Scotland have got Slovenia away. Wales have got Portugal away. Your favourite, John? The new Portuguese coach, George Jesus. George Jesus. I was waiting for you to say that. You're a little bit slow on the uptake there. And Northern Ireland, they're away to Georgia.

25:03John Murray:And there'll be four games played. So what are your thoughts on this new extended international break, or in Thomas Tuchel's words, international window? Because there are now only two international breaks before Christmas. The October schedule disappears in favour of this extended three-week window.

25:20Ian Dennis:Well, I like the Nations League. And as you two know, I'd like to see this extended into the qualifying procedure for the next tournament. I'd like to see them adapt this and make this the qualifier for, as it will be this time, the next Euro. So I think it offers Thomas Tuchel, and he was talking about this today, as he said it, what they would like to think would be a 10-match cycle. So they play the six group matches, and then they'll have to win the group. So probably we have to win against Spain at home in that first match, the new world champions, if you're going to win the group. But then, if you get through to the final, then you potentially have four matches there.

26:02Ian Dennis:That is the target to win a trophy. If they win a trophy, and I know people say, well, it's not the World Cup, it's not the European Championship, but if they win that trophy, then I think you have a slightly different standing because you've won a trophy when it comes to playing in the next European Championship for England. If they qualify, it would be on home territory. Yeah, and it does feel to me, I was going to make that point that they should take it very seriously because I know some people would look down their noses a little bit at the Nations League.

26:33Ali Bruce-Ball:I think I'm right in saying in terms of Nations League finals and reaching the final four and having a chance to win that tournament, it's only in the first edition that England managed to qualify for that final four, isn't it? Yeah. So, no, I agree, John. And I think that would go. I think that would go a long way to trying to help England get over the line in a major tournament. And also, as you say, you know, winning some favour back with the fans from Thomas Tuchel. It does feel, it does feel like, I know what they're trying to do with this. It does feel that international football has returned.

27:06Ali Bruce-Ball:It was such a mammoth, monster World Cup. I don't feel quite ready for international football at the moment.

27:12Ian Dennis:I understand that. And on the Nations League, Spain and France regularly get to the finals of those tournaments, and that does them no harm at all. And as regards four matches, let's just see. I think it's going to feel a little bit like the World Cup all over again. Four matches with England, talking to Thomas Tuchel, pre-match, post-match, four times in a row.

27:40John Murray:So let's just see how it goes. Well, this international break actually creates an international window because we might well do a little bit more Q &A over the next couple of episodes during the break from the domestic football. So please do send your questions over. You can email tcv at bbc.co.uk. Don't forget the WhatsApp thing. The messages and voice notes is 08000 289 369. 08000 289 369. This is how the weekend looks on Five Live. The clash of the commentators, oh great, that's on its way, as is the great glossary. Friday night, Brentford-Chelsea, that's into Premier League kick-off with Rick Edwards.

28:22John Murray:Saturday lunchtime, updates of Spurs-Villa, that's into Five Live Sport with Hare Chapman. Spurs looking still to continue their search for their first league goal. And then the commentaries, Brighton and Hove-Alvion against Arsenal. I'm joined by Curtis Davis at three for the usual goal service in the commentary for what is a cracking game I've got to say. Newcastle Hull City that's our alternative listening on three on Sports Extra 2. John you're up at 5.30 with Dion Dublin Nottingham Forest Coventry.

28:55Ian Dennis:Yep first visit to Nottingham Forest to the city ground this season. They've already sent the menu, which I was rather surprised by, that they're going to be serving us in the media room tomorrow. And what is it? I think it was braised beef and carrots. So that's something to look forward to. But then the match, first time to see Coventry City back in the Premier League, really looking forward to that. But I must say, Ian, I think Brighton Arsenal is, I mean, that's as good a game as there's been so far this season, potentially.

29:27John Murray:Yeah, it's funny. You're looking at the screen to talk to me and I'm looking at you across the room. It's throwing me a little bit. Can I just say as well, Forrest have really raised up their ante with the food this year in the press room. Have they? Yeah, I've been there twice and there's a bit more variation. But you're right, going back more seriously, Brighton in the last two seasons have beaten both the reigning champions in Liverpool and Manchester City. So that'll be a real test for Arsenal. And then on Sunday, Ali, you're not presenting. You're back doing the day job.

30:04Ali Bruce-Ball:Hurrah, yes. I'm on commentary duty at two o 'clock alongside Rob Green, who I had a good chat to earlier on today. Didn't see him during the World Cup. So had a good old catch up with Rob Green. And we are doing Bournemouth-Liverpool, which on paper is a really tasty fixture, I think. I mean, Bournemouth's excellent win in their first European game this week. But that does make it tricky for them on Andoni Araiola's return, because obviously played on the Thursday night away from home. And if you look at the Bournemouth lineups so far this season, Marco Rosa very clearly relying on a core group of players.

30:45Ali Bruce-Ball:So I think it's 10 of them have started all the Premier League games and played most minutes in them and the European game as well. and that turnaround is quite quick. And Liverpool, you know, unbeaten under Iriola, but not fully firing as yet, are they? So I think this one sets up really nicely.

31:02John Murray:Yeah. I noticed as well that both Bournemouth and Crystal Palace, for their respective European matches on Thursday night as well, went with unchanged sides. And obviously it's been a perfect start for English clubs in European competition because Palace travel to Leeds, which will be a really tough match for a two o 'clock kickoff. commentary of that is on Sports Extra too, because Leeds are playing very, very well. And then full of Manchester United with Vicky Sparks and Clinton Morrison, Craven Cottage 4.30. And John, you were at Old Trafford where you witnessed Manchester United losing a home game, having held a half-time lead for the first time since May 1984.

31:40Ian Dennis:Yeah. And I've seen and commentated on both of their defeats in the last week, the two defeats in the space of four days at Old Trafford. And before that, Michael Carrick had a brilliant record. In fact, he'd won all of his matches apart from the home defeat against Leeds towards the end of last season. So that match last Sunday was the first time Manchester United had not scored in a match under him at Old Trafford. And then that fact, which I was reminded by Bill Edgar in the Times, and the number of times that I've said that over the years, and after the match, I saw it, and I thought, oh, of course, that's it.

32:16Ian Dennis:Now they finally led at half-time and then lost the match. First time since 1984. And also the first time that they've lost after having a two-goal lead, I read, post-match at Old Trafford since 1976. And the worrying thing, I think, from a Manchester United point of view, those are the sort of records, the records you don't want, that have been falling regularly for a series of Manchester United managers. And as Michael Carrick said, post-match, things seem to have conspired against Manchester United very quickly. And he was referring as well to the match before that when they conceded that late equaliser, Nadal and Niles' goal against Everton.

33:00Ian Dennis:You know, and it does feel, I thought the reaction on Wednesday night, the loudness of the boos on the final whistle, you know, it just felt that, you know, history is kind of threatening to repeat itself. You know, that match on Sunday is so important for Manchester United. But as you say, Ian, you saw Fulham last week, I heard you say it, you know, that they were impressive at Anfield.

33:23John Murray:Yeah, they were. I thought they were the better team in long periods against Liverpool at Anfield last week. And they obviously got a victory in the League Cup in midweek as well. But I don't know about you, Al. I mean, it is a huge game because the media narrative is that the pressure is building on Michael Carrick. but I don't know about you, but I just feel that the players have got to take some responsibility. They're 2-0 up at home. And I just think that you can't keep going through the same cycle of getting rid of managers at Manchester United. If that's the case, then the hierarchy then needs to have a long, hard look at themselves as well.

34:00John Murray:I think the players have got to step up.

34:02Ali Bruce-Ball:Yeah, no, I'd agree with you, Ian. And I think this was always going to be the case this season if Manchester United didn't start well because the debate that everyone got into at the end of last season was, you know, even though Michael Carrick has done extremely well with Manchester United towards the end of that season, should we, should Manchester United go looking for a manager, someone to manage the club, who has managed at a higher level, more consistently for a longer time and more successfully than Michael Carrick? So as soon as the results didn't go well at the start of this season, this problem was always going to come.

34:42Ali Bruce-Ball:I think you're right, Ian, in terms of what you say about it being just as much on the players, if not more. I think they've got a slight problem at centre-forward at the moment in that Matthias Cunha has not been that impressive, as impressive as he can be at the start of this season. Michael Carrick doesn't seem to really trust Benjamin Szczesko. I wondered even about maybe, I mean, Rashford looked sharp at the start of the season, whether he would be an option playing through the middle for Manchester United. But yeah, and saying that, if they hadn't conceded the goals they conceded at Everton, and I know that's ifs, buts and maybes, there's a slightly different complexion on the season than if they hold on and win that game, isn't there?

35:22Ali Bruce-Ball:I know. But now the only Premier League win is against Ipswich, who pushed them for about an hour or so and then sort of subsided towards the end of the game. But you're right. There's pressure. There's pressure on this game. But also the hierarchy, they should have strengthened their defence as well in the summer. I do think that they've missed an opportunity there.

35:45John Murray:And also the fact that when the results were going their way, they were, by and large, a counter-attacking team. Manchester United, I still don't think, are at that stage where they can impose themselves on teams and pass the ball. they still need to rely on being a team on the counter-attack or transition, if you want to use the more in vogue phraseology.

36:10In the early 90s, women's tennis was having a moment. This is a match that will live in the memory of all of us forever.

36:18Ali Bruce-Ball:Steffi had been so dominant. Suddenly along came Monica Sellers. She hit the bar big. She hit two hands off both sides. And just when tennis fans were licking their lips at the prospect of a rivalry that would push the sport to new heights, one of the strangest and most shocking sporting crimes brought it to a grinding halt. Monica Selesh has been stabbed by a spectator. This man stole her story from her. Sports' Strangest Crimes, Tennis' Darkest Hour. Listen on BBC Sounds.

37:17We'll be right back. Midwest levels up October 3rd and 4th future play festival takes over Peoria experience the$50 ,000 collegiate esports showdown with interactive games retro arcades airsoft and remote control racing and Saturday night it's the future play after dark party takeover with explosive live performances by little John and James hype experience what's next in games and entertainment October 3rd and 4th at the Peoria Civic Center don't wait don't miss it get your tickets now at futureplayfestival.com

37:51Ali Bruce-Ball:the commentators view on the football daily with alistair bruce ball john murray and ian dennis

38:00John Murray:tcb at bbc.co.uk 08000 289369 i tell you what we had a lot of the correspondence on the hand clasps versus the handshakes debate from last week's episode fears growing that the old Fashioned handshake may be a thing of the past. Everton fan Sid, who started this clasp nonsense? It's an abomination.

38:25Ian Dennis:Nick says, I missed the handshake. Granted, the clasp going down the line in football is a lot quicker. But man, it just looks so limp, says Nick.

38:36Ali Bruce-Ball:Correspondence from Hong Kong. This is Geoffrey, who says, in Asia, nobody shakes hands anymore after COVID. We do fist bumps rather than a clasp. We were discussing the fist bump as well last week.

38:48John Murray:And Marcelo, it gets worse. They're doing high fives in the Portuguese league. Game's gone. And this from Tranmere fan Mike. Morning, chaps. Hope you are well and loving being back in the swing of things. I know me and Mrs. Wallace are very happy that we can once again fall asleep to your voices. Anyway, I'm emailing to say I was very disappointed to hear Chapman criticising your conversation about hand claps and how handshakes have changed. As a local non-league referee in Essex, I was on the way to a game and I thought I was going to put your theory to the test. When I walked both teams out, I made the point of doing a formal handshake rather than the clap.

39:28Five players looked at me like I was from another planet. The others just pushed my hand very quickly, but the best part was three players genuinely did not know what to do. They couldn't clap or shake hands. They got completely confused. So there you have it, chaps. Prove that you are correct. The handshake as we've known it has gone. Keep up the good work, chaps. Your voices are much more pleasant than Mrs. Wallace's snoring throughout the summer. All the best, Mike.

39:55Ian Dennis:Well, sorry, sorry, Mrs. Wallace, that you had to hear that from Mike. You can derate him back in the homestead.

40:04John Murray:Do you think if Mrs. Wallace goes through a night without snoring that he high-fives her in the bed?

40:10Ian Dennis:No, I don't. Good news, though, from Jack in Essex, who says, I was reminded of your conversation on handshakes in sport when I was at an Old Rules Subutio tournament at the weekend. And when playing at my club, the world-famous RAS, which is Rochford and Southend Casual Subutio Club, There were indeed handshakes between players and referees after the games. So good to see handshakes are still alive and well.

40:44Ali Bruce-Ball:Moving it on from the handshakes, but plenty more correspondence, tcv at bbc.co.uk. Richard in Oxfordshire gets in touch. Listening on a Sunday morning walk around Blenheim Palace, I like the term manita, if I've got hall, was a manita. But as an Oxford United supporter, and my thoughts immediately sprung to our stalwart, that's a good word, Cameron Brannigan, who once scored four penalties in a match against Gillingham. Surely this feat deserves its own special term and can you remember witnessing any other such unique achievement?

41:18Ian Dennis:Did Justin Cliver score a hat-trick of penalties last season?

41:26Ali Bruce-Ball:He did against, I've done it in the notes today, John, against, I'm going to say Wolves, Jose Sarr, was the goalkeeper. Yes, that's correct.

41:34Ian Dennis:Yeah, but not for Cameron Brannigan. And just while Ian flicks through his boot, just going back to the handshakes and blasts. Rather amusingly, at Old Trafford, first time I've seen Clinton Morrison this season, as Clinton walked towards me in the press box, he came towards me in a clasping style. And I managed to turn him back into a handshake.

41:56John Murray:It wasn't last season. When was it? It was the season before. Because it's not in last season's Red Book.

42:04Ali Bruce-Ball:You're right, Ian. And that will be in my notes. And Cliveau didn't play that much last season, actually, did he? He missed quite a lot of the season with injuries. So, yes.

42:12Ian Dennis:It's November 2024, Gary. Gary's here, football producer Gary. So, he can't ring in during this record of the plot. He could do. But strangely enough, in keeping with the tradition, one of our other football producers, Rob Schofield, has actually tried to ring me. during the recording of this podcast. So it's catching. And not too far down the road from Richard, Penelope in Wiltshire says, in a world of sensationalist news and internet noise, I find TCV a much-needed retreat into a world of glorious sports-related tangents and soothing chat. Viviana Miedemar scored a double hat-trick for the mighty Arsenal against Bristol City a few years back, says Penelope, as part of what remains the record-winning margin in the WSL.

43:07Ian Dennis:Perhaps, therefore, the double hat-trick could be branded a Viv in her honour, and the V-I could even be Roman numeral. Roman numeral's for six. That's good.

43:21Ali Bruce-Ball:That is very good. Just on that note, that's very good, Penelope. Is that our first Penelope, do you think,

43:28Ian Dennis:I think Tenelope might have been in touch before.

43:32Ali Bruce-Ball:I think so too. Okay. Not crucial. Not crucial. But thank you. But just picking up on that, Bill Edgar from the Times, who does all that wonderful stat stuff in the Times, great, great nuggets in there ahead of a weekend's football commentary, has been in touch. And Bill says, you were discussing the big individual goal tallies in English top flight games. The record is seven goals by Ted Drake for Arsenal away to Aston Villa in December 1935. And after that, six players have scored the double hat-trick, six goals, with the Jeff Hurst case in 1968. So Keith, do you remember Keith got in touch last week?

44:13Ali Bruce-Ball:A West Ham fan who I think was there to see the Jeff Hurst double hat-trick. That is the only one since the Second World War. and then Bill has very kindly, I won't read out the list, but sent me the list of six players. Steve Bloom is in that list, actually, who scored six goals in top flight football. But Bill finishes by suggesting that the term for a seven-goal haul should simply be a Drake. A Drake. I like that.

44:38John Murray:Although, according to my notes, so I carry this one around with me, because if there's one player who's going to score seven in a game, it's going to be Haaland, isn't it? and according to my notes on my Manchester City notes I've got this at the very top Neville Tin Coleman was the last to score seven it was in the second division in 1957 when Stoke beat Lincoln City 8-0 so maybe rather than a Drake it should be called a Tin

45:09Ali Bruce-Ball:I can see Nathan as quick as a flash put a note in the script here that apparently we have had a different Penelope in touch before and that was Penelope, the often mispronounced town of Hoyk.

45:23Ian Dennis:Right. So two Penelope, another Penelope. I think, Ian, the time has come. Yes, I know, I'm afraid. For you, my friend, it is time for Clash of the Commentators and another chance for Ian to get his first point on the board this season, the defending champion, don't you forget. Here's the league table. after I beat Ian last week on Manchester Derby Players. So Ali is top of the table because he's played 2-1-2. And then it's me, just slightly behind Ali, played 3-1-2. And then a long way behind us two, it's Ian. Don't rub it in. Who has played 3 and not 1-1 yet. That was done in a Nicholas Parsons style from the old style, just a minute leaderboard.

46:14Ian Dennis:So Ian and Ali are going to take turns this week to answer a question and give as many correct answers as they can in 30 seconds. And because Ian is sitting with me in this room at Wembley Stadium, we won't have to have the usual carry-on if who is going first and who's going second. So we are ready to go. Ali has unplugged. And Ian, this week's category comes from listener Pavel. Good day from the Czech Republic, he says. Interestingly, he doesn't say it. Good day from Czechia. He says, good day from the Czech Republic. And he's there. Here's one for you ahead of England's home and away games in the upcoming international break.

46:59Ian Dennis:Name as many players as you can from the Czech Republic to have played in the Premier League. So quite simply, Ian, Czech players who've played in the Premier League. Starting now.

47:10John Murray:Pavel Cernicek. Vladimir Sufow. Thomas Socek. Tartik Berger. Petr Cech.

47:26John Murray:Horny Cech. Newcastle.

47:37Derida.

47:38Ian Dennis:Was there a Derida? He played in the Premier League. I'll enjoy your strategy there of calling for players who have Czech in their name. Right, let's call Ali back in. Yes, here he comes. Here he comes. Yes, yes, yes. Right. Ali. Right. Ready? Yes. So this week's category comes from listener Pavel. And he says, good day from the Czech Republic. Not Czech here. He says the Czech Republic. He's there. He says, here's one for you. head of England's home and away games with the Czech Republic in the upcoming international break. Name as many players as you can from the Czech Republic to have played in the Premier League.

48:21Ian Dennis:So quite simply, Czech players to have played in the Premier League. Your time starts now.

48:28Ali Bruce-Ball:Thomas Suchek, Pavel Cernicek, Patrick Berger.

48:36Ali Bruce-Ball:Oh, blimey. No, Dene's going to win this one. I can't think of a single. Czech players. Oh, Repka was Czech. Wasn't he Thomas Repka for West Ham?

48:48Ali Bruce-Ball:Oh, no, this is dreadful.

48:54Ali Bruce-Ball:I'll say Petr Czech, because he's Czech.

48:57Ian Dennis:Well, you went down a very similar line to Ian in naming Czech men who have Czech in their names. Yes. And actually, you started off with almost the same player, which was interesting. So you... The one I missed was Smica. Oh, that's good. Yeah. Smica. So Ian, no, Derida, Ian, who you mentioned, did not play in the Premier League. So Ian said, Cernicek, Sofowl, Sochek, Berger, Czech, and Hornicek. Ali Ali said So check Sonny check Berger Repka and check so by my calculations Ian has won it 6-5 oh oh that was close that was close I thought it was going to be

49:52John Murray:do you know what that is Ali yeah that's checkmate it is hey

49:58Ian Dennis:and Ian congratulations on your first win of the season well I've got to say I'm glad I've got that burden off my back well done I can tell that.

50:07Ali Bruce-Ball:Well done. I can tell that. Have we, I mean, obviously. Do you want some of the other ones that you've missed? Yeah, I was going to say, John, what are the obvious ones? I mean, I'm annoyed I've not said SoFell having said Socek. That's stupid because they come as a pair.

50:17Ian Dennis:I think you've got most of the ones that I think that you might have mentioned. Oh, there's Ludek McCloskey this week. You know, the sad news this week. He would have been on the list. What an outpouring there was after the announcement of his death this week. Karol Paborski Karol Paborski Yeah that's a good one Is Kinski Kinski

50:40Ali Bruce-Ball:Tottenham Is he Czech Yep

50:42Ian Dennis:Antonin Kinski Is on the list Yeah Who else is on there What's a real rogue one That's on the list Okay yeah There's a few of those How about Marcel Getchoff Who played for Fulham In 2011 2012 Is that Is that rogue enough for you Yeah that is rogue Yeah Yeah Well done Ian Off the bottom of the table So Ian now wins his first point of the season. That means we've now got the other end of the table. We are now all square, aren't we? Ali's played three, one, two. I've played three, one, two. So Ali is top of the table on alphabetical order. And then Ian bottom of the table with one win from four now, Ian.

51:24John Murray:But I know you claim that I was a long way behind, but I'm actually now only one behind you. I'm within touching distance.

51:30Ian Dennis:I can tell you from personal experience the last two seasons how difficult Betty is to claw back.

51:36John Murray:Right. Let's get straight onto our great glossary of football commentary as we build a collection of commentary terms and phrases. Division one, remember, is for football exclusive terms. Division two for terms used across various sports. Last week we added you could have had two goalkeepers in there and they still wouldn't have saved it. That went into division one. And on that theme, Dan from Gloucester says, look forward to the pod every week. and I'm studying for my A-levels this year. Just again, goes to show about John's theory that if you're under the age of... What is it, 30? No, teenager.

52:11John Murray:Teenagers, absolutely. If teenagers write in voice notes, you'll get on. Anyway, Dan says, my suggestion is gone for the spectacular. I've only heard this in football and think this is a Division I entry. Keep up the good work.

52:29Ian Dennis:So that's gone for the spectacular. At the other end of the scale, Jez writes in and says, as a Crystal Palace fan of many years, I'm frequently left hoping that one of our strikers will find their shooting boots after just needing one to go in off their backside. This latter suggestion, says Jez, might be a candidate to Division I, because I can't think of any other sport where this would be allowed as a goal. and I heard Dion Dublin used this last weekend, just need one to go in off their backside, which I think he was referring to Coventry City.

53:09Ali Bruce-Ball:Yeah, I mean, I think Jez may well be right there, but then what interests me is, what is the equivalent in other sports? So if you're a tennis... No, I know it doesn't matter, but I'm interested in that, John. I'm interested in what's the equivalent of one going in off your backside in tennis. If you can't win a point, you need something.

53:27Ian Dennis:One going in off the neck post?

53:28Ali Bruce-Ball:Well, exactly. Exactly. That's what I'm thinking. But on the gone for the spectacular, I think you could have that in something like tennis because if you go for that spectacular sort of cross... Yeah. Yeah. So I think that's probably a dip too.

53:45John Murray:I agree. A drop kick from way, way out. Yeah. I think Dan's suggestion has got to be dip too. Yeah. But going in off the backside has got to be division one. Division one. Got to be.

53:55Ali Bruce-Ball:So, yeah. Yeah.

53:56Ian Dennis:Yeah. I cannot envisage that being used in any other sport. Snooker? Wouldn't happen, would it?

54:05No.

54:07Ali Bruce-Ball:Depends who's playing, actually, doesn't it?

54:12Ali Bruce-Ball:Mark from Ontario in Canada. Our global reach. Again, hi, TCV. Love the podcast. I'm 15. Hurrah. There we go. We need a fanfare for that, don't we? I'm 15 and me and my family all listen each week on our Saturday afternoon bike ride. All listen together on a bike ride. That's interesting, isn't it? Riding as a group, all listening to the pod at the same time.

54:39Ian Dennis:I feel almost burdened by that.

54:41Ali Bruce-Ball:Yeah. We're all lifelong Manchester United supporters. I hope one day to come to England to watch them play. My suggestion for the great glossary is this. When a player scores a hat-trick like Bruno Fernandes did against Ipswich, had to sneak that in there, they're often described as taking the match ball home now surely this is only used in football what do you think thank you so much for making my week better well i'm glad we do that mark yeah thank

55:06Ian Dennis:you very much and i can tell you as well on on bruno fernandez in in advance of their match it's just i'm a commentator on them this season so i did have a listen to the uh the premier league pronunciation these videos that were being sent and it's still right up there brun brun fernand is still right up there as one of my favourite pronunciations.

55:26Ali Bruce-Ball:Bruno Fernandes.

55:29Ian Dennis:Taking the match ball home?

55:30Ali Bruce-Ball:I should know this, but in rugby, if you score a hat-trick, do you take the match ball home? I don't know. I don't know. Hockey? Don't know.

55:38John Murray:Unlikely. Why don't we pose that one for the listeners to get in touch? Yeah.

55:42Ian Dennis:But for the time being,

55:44John Murray:we put it in Division 1. So, in summary, gone for the spectacular, Division 2. For the time being, Division 1, taking the match ball home, but definitely in Division 1 and getting the John Murray seal of approval needs one to go in off their backsides.

56:08John Murray:Hooray! And just finally, this from Kenneth in Glasgow. Hello all. Now that you have a newly found battalion of teenage listeners, I expect you will have been deluged with communications regarding the evolution of the handshake. You're quite right, Kenneth. My 17-year-old son confirmed for me that to greet your opponent using the clasping manner is to dap or to dap up the other party. I look forward to hearing this in some forthcoming five live commentaries, very Murray-esque. There is a challenge for you then, John. You've got to Dap up.

56:46Ian Dennis:I am taking up that challenge, Kenneth. I'm going to take up that challenge this weekend, Nottingham Forest against Coventry.

56:53John Murray:I'm already looking forward to the dapping up ceremony. Well, that's it for this episode of The Commentator's View. So thank you to John and Ali and all of your questions and correspondence. And don't forget, they are always welcome as well, especially ahead of those two potentially Q &As that we're going to do during the international break. So tcv at bbc.co.uk and you can send us a message or voice note voice note even on WhatsApp to 08000 289 369 and the next episode of the Football Daily will be the football interview with Alexander Isak. You know what? I'm a little bit upset that you're not doing Manchester City and that Geronimo Rulli doesn't deputise for Donna Rummer and then you can say it's Duran and Ruli is dapping up late.

57:43Ali Bruce-Ball:With 5 Live Sport and BBC Sounds. Hear all the live exciting action from the WSL. And it's bigger and better than ever before. Get all the latest news and interviews from the biggest stars of the women's game. Alexa Pitez, welcome to the Women's Football Week. I love competition. I love football. I love training. I love to improve. To win a league like the WSL You have to be at your best every single week. Listen with the BBC Sounds app.

58:20Ian Dennis:Can politicians improve our economic fortunes? Dave Ramsey says no. I'm Tristan Redmond from The Global Story, and I've been speaking to the massively popular US money guru who says if there's a financial crisis, it's on us. When you borrow on credit cards

58:36Ali Bruce-Ball:and take out a$1 ,200 car payment on a freaking Range Rover, You've destroyed your life, not the president. For the full interview, listen to The Global Story on bbc.com or wherever you listen.