The Commentators' View: ‘Chewing gum’ Andorra & Keystone Cops

11:42Ian Dennis:Yeah. Yeah, Clyde on the email says, I listened to last week's show with an enormous grin all over my face. That's when I wasn't laughing out loud while producer Claire was on. My goodness, what insight into the cogs and wheels that turn this behemoth of a vehicle into the smooth-running, polished, brackets mostly, liquid gold that flows mellifluously into our eager ears. What an extraordinary ringmaster Claire is. More of her, please.

12:08Ali Bruce-Ball:Yeah, well, Anthony, who's a Mansfield fan, backs that up. He says, I listened to last week's podcast while doing the paperwork in an empty office. It was a good job. I was alone. As I laughed out loud during the segment with the fantastic, formidable Claire. Keep up the great work.

12:22John Murray:Formidable. So she bellows. She gives incessant talk back and now she's described as formidable.

12:28Ali Bruce-Ball:And a ringmaster. I think ringmaster is a great term, actually.

12:31John Murray:Commentaries for you this week on BBC Radio 5 Live and the BBC Sounds app. Friday night, Chelsea against Manchester City in the WSL opener at Stamford Bridge. Denmark-Scotland in the World Cup qualifier is on the stream of Sports Extra 2 that is available through the BBC Sounds app. Arsenal against London City Lionesses in the WSL is on Saturday at half past one. And then at five o 'clock on Saturday, England and Dora in a World Cup qualifier from Villa Park. John and myself are joined by Matt Upson and Phil Jones. Liverpool-Everton in the WSL on Sundays at midday. That's Ali with Karen Bardsley.

13:07John Murray:and then international duty again on Tuesday, live from Belgrade, Serbia against England in the company of Paul Robinson. But from the England camp, John Stones has withdrawn through injury.

13:20Ian Dennis:Yes, that was, I suppose, the main piece of news today, that John Stones, who's not yet played under Thomas Tuchel and indeed hasn't played since last autumn, missed a lot of football with Manchester City last season. He did actually, if you remember, Ian, at the end of last season, when England went to Barcelona, he actually took John Stones along to be part of the group as they call it and has also spoken as he has done here at St George's Park today about the potential for John Stones not playing in central defence for England but playing in midfield as a number six and actually floated the possibility that he might have done that in Belgrade next week but it won't happen because he's gone back to Manchester City.

13:59John Murray:Well in fact we can actually hear your conversation with the England manager

14:01Ian Dennis:Thomas that must be quite a loss John stones to lose him from your squad and your plans? Yeah, because I'm a big fan of John, his personality and his quality and he is such an experienced player and full of quality and winning mentality that it's a big disappointment most of all for him he was very upset and sad to leave camp, we are as well but that's how it is we need to find solutions and we will trust the players who are still in camp. And in his absence, there are no doubts about Mark Gay's state of mind after the past week and a half that he's had. I suppose he's probably not that sort of figure, is he?

14:46No, he's very calm, he's very composed. He's dealing brilliantly with it, I have to say. It's very impressive. He had a strong training session, keeps on going as if nothing happened, basically. So this is very impressive. I think the whole way he handled the situation with his club Crystal Palace, how he played and how strong he played while he had the wish to change clubs was very impressive. Now the transfer is off and he will remain as a captain and the leader of Crystal Palace and hopefully continue to write the success story for them. he's very strong in training sessions and absolutely ready to play

15:31John Murray:So John, bearing in mind we're going to be hearing from Dan Byrne in a moment Who are you thinking is going to start in the centre of defence?

15:37Ian Dennis:Well I'm assuming Dan Byrne is going to play because he came to speak to us earlier today here at St George's Park and I don't know, is it more likely to be Konza or will it be Gay? And of course what Thomas Tuchel and I was referring to there is the fact that this move to this projected move to Liverpool broke down just last Monday. So come Saturday, would Gay play or would it be Konza?

16:01John Murray:The only thing is that Thomas Tuchel has talked about combinations, hasn't he? He's talked on the left-hand side, Dan Byrne and Mark Gehie, and on the right side, Esri Konza and John Stones. So it seems strange for him to go with a Gehie, although he is right-footed, Gehie and Dan Byrne.

16:18Ian Dennis:But we know Gay can play as the right-sided central defender. But this is the thing, going back to John Stones, I'd be fairly confident that had Stones not withdrawn, we would probably be looking at Stones and Gay as the two central defenders for these two matches, yeah?

16:33John Murray:Did you hear, Ali, that Thomas Tuchel said it can feel a little like chewing gum to break a block down like this? Because he's expecting, obviously, the next two games to be opposition that's going to go 4-5-1. So we have to play with more energy and more enthusiasm. And so far, I'm sure that we will. But that depends on your approach to chewing gum, doesn't it? You know if you like the Sam Allardyce where you are a vociferous chewer Yeah, you're gonna have lots of energy Whereas if you're more of a somebody who just keeps the chewing gum in your mouth and doesn't chew

17:03Ian Dennis:I actually heard Jonathan Agnew talking the other day Do you remember David Steele who played for England in the mid 70s? Yeah, was he at Leicestershire as well? Northamptonshire, Northamptonshire it was Jonathan Agnew was was explaining and telling how David Steele used to actually when he battered and if he had a piece of chewing gum he would actually at the end of the day's play would take it out put it down edge of the bed post whatever and would actually then take it up and actually go with the same piece of chewing

17:34Ali Bruce-Ball:gum to resume his innings the next day what as a superstition well i think the suggestion was that

17:41Ian Dennis:um he didn't like to use too much chewing gum oh right so as jonathan agnew was called was telling I guess the other day on the airwaves, they used to call David Steele crime because crime never pays.

17:59Ali Bruce-Ball:I mean, I think my attitude to chewing gum actually is I would be the opposite to David Steele. I tend to change chewing gum very quickly. So I'll lob a couple of tablets in it or lose its flavor, lob a couple of more. And so eventually it builds up to really quite a quite a big ball eventually that you eventually have to expel.

18:17Ian Dennis:I'm not a chewing gum man, actually. No.

18:21John Murray:Well, I tell you what, we'll get back on topic from chewing gum to chewing the cud with Dan Byrne, because I've been getting his thoughts on his old Newcastle teammate now, who's moved to Liverpool, Alexander Isak. Yeah, I think it was frustrating coming into it knowing that there was something hanging over with, but listen, I've been in football long enough now to understand how it works, and football is a short career and people have got ambitions and things they want to achieve, So as a footballer, again, as a Newcastle fan, obviously we're very passionate about the club and probably don't understand why people can't think that they can do that at our club, which is, I think, that's just us as Newcastle fans in general.

19:00But I'm just happy that it's over now. I think Alex has got what he wants, which was the move. And I think we've recruited really well. I think if you look at our transfer window in general, we've got good depth in every position now. and the ball have invested heavily and it could be a really positive season.

19:17John Murray:There's a broader point, I guess, for another day about what's the right way, what's the wrong way. But Mark Gahey obviously did it a different way and that fell through. How is Mark with your time with him? Yeah, he's good. I think we've not asked him too much about it, to be honest. But I think everybody's met Mark. They know how calm and composed he is. he's obviously captain of Palace and a real leader so I don't think that'll affect his mentality at all. I think he's probably in a similar situation that he would have been if not he's gone into the last year of his contract so I don't know personally obviously what Mark wants or where he wants to go or what he wants to do but I've seen no change in him from this camp to sort of previous camps I've had.

19:58John Murray:What do you two think then about what's happened in the transfer window as well? Because there There is a debate to be had about will we start to see more of this with players doing what Alexander Isak and Johan Wisser have done?

20:12Ian Dennis:Well, I mean, it was an extraordinary transfer window, wasn't it? Off the back of a new broadcasting deal. So all the records that were broken, a large part of that is that yet again, the Premier League's broadcasting income has just rocketed. and I feel the players play their part but also the agents play a huge part in this and I think that almost goes unsaid. The record phase, Liverpool have twice broken the British transfer record and£50 million,£60 million,£70 million transfers are ten a penny now in the Premier League and the agents are getting a huge chunk of that money and that goes, in inverted commas, out of the game, doesn't it?

20:59Ian Dennis:You know, so there's a great debate, isn't there, about how this money is being spent at the top of the game. How much of it is actually percolating down the pyramid? Well, I know that an awful lot of it is percolating out of the pyramid to the agents.

21:13Ali Bruce-Ball:Yeah. In terms of players forcing the moves, Ian, I think, I mean, those are two really obvious cases we have had in the last month, but I would say twas ever thus in a way. I mean, I think the players' power has got greater, but we've seen that sort of thing happen before. And I think eventually, you know, a lot of people were making the point, weren't they, that Mark Gahey, you know, certainly in the eyes of the Crystal Palace fans, did everything right, you know, showed real respect to the football club, and in the end has just, you know, knuckled down and got on with it, and possibly maybe he'll get his move, you know, in January, whereas the other two, Wisser and Isak, who you mentioned, basically said, right, we're not going to play for this club anymore until we get the move and the move was forced.

21:55Ali Bruce-Ball:And I think actually with the individual, in the end, whatever you think of that, it comes down to what you are happy with. And Mark Gahey clearly wanted to behave the way he did and the other two behaved the way they did. And I think in the end, it just comes down to the player. They can pretty much force it if they want to. But I think in the end, it's, you know, can you then look yourself in the mirror the next day and think, you know, I've behaved in the correct way. The other point I would just make very quickly that Dan Byrne made there Whereas I do think Newcastle have, in the end, done well there with the Volta Marder and Wisser signings in terms of getting two different players in, different types of player in to play out front.

22:33Ali Bruce-Ball:Now, I wouldn't be surprised, actually, if even though I think, am I right in saying they spent more on Volta Marder? But actually, I would go with, I would have thought Wisser might be the one who gets more minutes to begin with, just having played in the Premier League a bit more.

22:44Ian Dennis:And also, you know, players do get it. Ian's just been talking to Dan Byrne who was saying that effectively said there are no hard feelings between him and Alexander Isaac, he said we are good mates we were speculating last Saturday at Elland Road during the commentary, I was talking about Anthony Alanga who was playing for Newcastle, was an international team mate of Alexander Isaac how it might be in a couple of days time when Alanga pitched up at Sweden's international camp Alexander, how are you? Haven't seen you for a while. But, you know, the players understand that this is how it works.

23:25John Murray:Well, don't forget we'll have commentary of both England against Andorra from Villa Park on Saturday, five o 'clock kick-off, and on Tuesday in Belgrade, live for that game against Serbia on Five Live and the BBC Sounds app. And a reminder, not just England, the BBC is showing all World Cup qualifiers for the men's teams of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland live. Which is a great service. It is an excellent service.

23:51Ian Dennis:I watched Luxembourg, Northern Ireland last night and thoroughly enjoyed it. I thought Northern Ireland played very well. And did you see as well...

23:57John Murray:A hard time team talk from Michael O 'Neill.

23:59Ali Bruce-Ball:Yeah, and did you see as well in that group, so Northern Ireland played Germany next, Germany lost to Slovakia in that group.

24:05Ian Dennis:Very much we saw that, with Nick Voltemada starting up front for the Germans.

24:10Ali Bruce-Ball:There you go.

24:11Ian Dennis:And as we have said several times over recently, Slovakia are not the easiest nut to crack, as Julian Nagelsmann will now tell you.

24:21John Murray:TCV at bbc.co.uk. Niall in Glasgow. As a player, you would hope the pinnacle of your career is international selection. Is it the same for a commentator at Five Live? Do you feel that you have reached the pinnacle when you are first selected to commentate on your country? Thank you for keeping me company on early morning walks with my dog and newborn son.

24:44Ian Dennis:Well, I'm not sure about that, Ian, but what I do know is that as time goes by, I almost have a greater love for international football. And I've always loved international football since I first got into football as a youngster. There's something about international football, certainly the tournaments, World Cups, I think it's the same for all of us. But I think increasingly so now, particularly off the back of this transfer window where the biggest clubs can just spend and spend and spend. I love the conundrum that international managers have to solve if you have weak areas in your team. You don't have a left back.

25:17Ian Dennis:You've got to do something about it. And I think that makes now international football an even more purer form of the game.

25:24John Murray:Niall, I would agree. I wouldn't necessarily say it's the pinnacle because every game that we do is a privilege. And that doesn't mean to sound too cliched. but I do recall the first ever time I was doing England in 2009, and it was with you, if you remember. In Doha. Doha in 2009. And Charlotte Nickel, our England producer at the time, protected me to such an extent. There was a media cricket game that was being played on the afternoon of the game. England were playing Brazil in Doha, in Qatar. And I was refused to play in the game. She refused. Permission. I was not given permission to play she banned me from playing just in case I picked up an injury playing cricket so therefore I couldn't play I mean I'm not too sure what injury she thought that I was going to pick up to prevent me from commentating later that night but yes I was just told to rest ahead of my England debut

26:22Ali Bruce-Ball:How many runs did you get John?

26:25Ian Dennis:No I didn't play in that game What? I didn't play in that game

26:28Ali Bruce-Ball:What I would say to Nile is we don't get five live international caps, do we? Like the players, we're not giving caps for every international game we do. But what I would say, I would agree with you both.

26:39Ian Dennis:I think if we did that, we could certainly and rightly be accused of being up on ourselves.

26:43Ali Bruce-Ball:Yes, but I would agree with you both that I think particularly for me at the major tournaments and I think particularly the World Cup, I mean, I remember as a kid, the first major football tournament I sort of remember properly was the World Cup in 82. You know, that Italy-Brazil, Italy 3 Brazil 2 game that amazing Brazil team but just the idea now when we're at these major tournaments I remember watching that then and it just seemed like a far off land just like you'd never get there but commentating on any international any team at a major tournament is an incredible thing to do I love it yeah the Women's Football Weekly has found a new home in its very own feed we've called it unsurprisingly BBC Women's Football Weekly we'll continue to bring you the latest news insights and analysis from across the women's game.

27:31They're throwing some big money around. I want to see how they line up, how everyone fits in. Episodes will be available every Tuesday as ever, alongside special, unfiltered player interviews from the biggest names in the WSL and beyond. To make sure you never miss an episode, just search for BBC Women's Football Weekly and hit subscribe once you get there.

27:59Over 300 food ingredients are banned from their shelves. No hydronated fats in the peanut butter and no high fructose corn syrup in the cookies. And for sandwiches, there are no synthetic nitrates or nitrites in any of their deli meat. So you can pack lunch boxes with peace of mind. Get back to school ready at Whole Foods Market. The Commentator's View on the Football Daily with Alistair Bruce Ball, John Murray and Ian Dennis.

28:30John Murray:Talking of Pinnacles, was being Clash of the Commentators champion last season up there for you, Ali?

28:36Ali Bruce-Ball:Um, I mean, if I could defend the title, Ian, you know, that really would be quite something.

28:41John Murray:Well, we are now into our second round of fixtures because everyone has played everybody once. Ali beat John. I beat John. Everyone beats John. and then I beat Ali on Liverpool Arsenal players in that 4-4 draw from 2009. So the current standings, I'm two from two. The champion Ali is one from two and John, after those 12 defeats in a row, zero from two. So we're back to Ali versus John. I'm going to give you a category. You'll have 30 seconds to give as many correct answers as you can. And because I'm sat opposite John here at St. George's Park, John Ali is going to have to go first. So Ali is going to have to disconnect.

29:27John Murray:And once he does that... He's disconnecting. We're ready to go. He is disconnected. This favours you big time, by the way. Does it? We've said that before. England-Andorra is our Saturday 5pm commentary on 5 Live. The two nations have faced each other seven times since the inaugural meeting in 2006. England have scored 26 goals across those seven matches. I want you to name any of the goal scorers, England goal scorers versus Andorra. Your time starts now.

30:00Ian Dennis:Harry Kane, Ollie Watkins, Dominic Solanke, Ivan Toney, Wayne Rooney, Michael Owen, Steven Gerrard, Frank Lampard, David Beckham, Paul Scholes,

30:17Ian Dennis:who else? Bukayo Saka

30:24Ian Dennis:Declan Rice

30:28Ian Dennis:Kyle Walker who hasn't

30:33John Murray:You know when I said that this favours you big time I've got a feeling that Ali might beat you Oh no I was just going through the list in front of me and I'm thinking you might have only got four

30:46Ian Dennis:See, I went, I then, I changed tack there to what you two told me to do. The scattergun approach.

30:54John Murray:Anyway, we'll have to wait for him to come back in now.

30:56Ian Dennis:The scattergun wasn't very accurate. I didn't think about the matches. I just thought, I'm just going to reel off names here. Yeah. Sorry, Saul Campbell didn't get a mention.

31:07John Murray:We're waiting for him to... Here he is. I've waved to him, but I should have given him the thumbs up.

31:13Ian Dennis:Yeah, I thought that package has arrived at his door. He's waiting for a package, incidentally, for listeners. Have they been at the door?

31:21Ali Bruce-Ball:They've not. They've not, John. I'm waiting for a call. No, so, I mean, if the call comes now, in the next 30 seconds, we've got a problem. Because there's no one in the house I've got to ask.

31:29John Murray:Then it'd be kiboshed. Yes. That would have to go down as a forfeit, Ali. So, without further ado, I'm going to get cracking. Yep. England and Dora is the commentary on Five Live. The two nations have faced each other seven times since they first met in 2006. England have scored 26 goals in those seven games. I want you to name as many England goal scorers versus Andorra, and your time starts now. I mean, I wouldn't have a clue there.

31:56Ali Bruce-Ball:Let's go Harry Kane, Bakaio Saka, Cole Palmer, Declan Rice, Harry Maguire, Trent Alexander-Arnold, Ollie Watkins. Probably got to go further back than that. What about players like, I don't know, Dele Alli, Jadon Sancho, Jordan Henderson. Let's go Steven Gerrard, Frank Lampard, Paul Scholes. Let's go all the way back there. That'll do.

32:25John Murray:This is going to be tight. This is going to be tight. When I saw the category, Ali, I said to John, after you disconnected, I said, I said, this favours you big time. He'll have commentated on them all. I thought that John, when he went through his list, I thought he might only have about four there. I might have missed one. I think you got about five, but we'll wait for Nathan for the confirmation. Whilst we're getting the confirmation, so Crouch 2, Gerrard and Defoe 2 in a 5-0 win. Gerrard got another 2, Nugent, on his debut under Steve McLaren. Joe Cole also in Catalo's first competitive match.

33:02John Murray:You've got Rooney, Lampard, Defoe again. Lingard got a couple Kane obviously Chilwell, Saka Abraham Ward, Prowse and Grealish in 2021 and then Harry Kane back in June I remember interviewing Chilwell

33:16Ian Dennis:after he scored that goal and it was during Covid and we were having to wear masks and it was on a very sort of cold night in in Andorra and as I was interviewing Ben Chilwell my glasses were steaming up and after about 20 seconds I couldn't see him at all

33:36Ali Bruce-Ball:I always forget in these categories you should always say Rooney you should say Rooney to everything Rooney's always involved and I didn't say Rooney so the result is in

33:49Ian Dennis:please may it not be a draw

33:51John Murray:you both gave 13 answers right Ali four correct yeah however the losing run has been banished because of Jon. Cracked. Five corrects. Cracked it.

34:08Ian Dennis:Courtesy of the Andorans. I'll never have a word said against the Andorans again.

34:13John Murray:You'll never have a better opportunity. That was... You were the heavy favourite going into that when I saw the category. And I delivered. Yeah, he delivered. So what's the issue? Your first win in 13. What's the problem?

34:26Ali Bruce-Ball:He was due. He was due.

34:29Ian Dennis:Highly disappointing, that downed the defending champion.

34:32John Murray:Yeah, yeah. That's back-to-back defeats now. Ali's in crisis mode. Ali's on a run now.

34:37Ian Dennis:I hope we're going to reference his losing streak as often as we've mentioned mine.

34:43John Murray:Now time for the great glossary of football commentary.

34:45Ian Dennis:Hang on a minute. It's not time for that yet. It is. I'm ready to revel in my victory a little bit more first.

34:52John Murray:Now it's time for the great glossary of football commentary where we add listener suggestions to our football-specific commentary terms and phrases to our collection, tcv at bbc.co.uk. Chris in Newcastle, not upon Tyne, but in New South Wales in Australia. Hello, gents. I love the pod, my favourite football show. Why, thank you. I like yourselves, but very much in the early stages of my career, I am a football commentator. I primarily have called games in the NPL, which is the States League, currently second tier in Australia, and A-League's women competitions. I enjoy listening to the show on my drive to my matches on a Saturday most weekends.

35:34John Murray:I thought I would include this from a league semi-final a week ago between the Lambden Jaffas and Maitland Magpies. Some good signs of intent from Cahill early on. Here he is again. Gets past the first. Prods it into the box. Bond with a strike. Up the crossbar where the Kookaburra sleeps and Jaffas hit the lead. so that is the australian ification of where the owl sleeps had it been maitland that scored not lampton then maybe i could have gone with where the magpie sleeps keep up the wonderful work best

36:07Ian Dennis:wishes from down under chris well it was an inevitability wasn't it that a kookaburra was going to feature at some stage i suppose we haven't hadn't raised the possibility that it could be a kookaburra already but that's excellent isn't it i mean just goes on and on it just it's the gift that keeps on giving that one isn't it the way the owl sleeps i would have thought the

36:28Ali Bruce-Ball:owl came before the kookaburra the kookaburra has kind of been inspired maybe by the owl but

36:31Ian Dennis:who knows who knows so that one was from australia and um you know we we do as we always say i love your whatsapp voice notes to 08000 289369 and we've had this one in from the united states of america hello all love the podcast delighted to have you back for a new season this is rachel in virginia and i have a suggestion for the glossary namely to usher or to shepherd the ball behind for a corner would love to hear your thoughts yeah i've used that already this season oh yeah me too every game is that not in already no the only question there is going to be would it be used

37:13Ali Bruce-Ball:in other sports. Do you do that in other sports? Yeah, but we use it.

37:16Ian Dennis:I mean, that should be in the glossary of football commentary because we use it so often.

37:20John Murray:It's not it. In fact, we don't have a glossary under the letter U. Well, there we are then.

37:26Ian Dennis:Yeah. And that was from Virginia. Have you ever been to Virginia, Ali?

37:30Ali Bruce-Ball:No, I don't think so, John. I've been close. I've been close, but not.

37:34John Murray:Rachel's actually in Alexandria in Virginia, and I've been to Alexandria in Egypt.

37:41Ian Dennis:But not Alexandria. at Virginia.

37:44John Murray:Maybe. Is it a big place? Maybe we could stop off for the second stage of the World Tour in the World Cup next year? When I was little,

37:53Ian Dennis:I used to watch, did you watch the Virginian that used to be on the television? It was a cowboy series. It was one of my favourites when I was little, the Virginian.

38:02Ali Bruce-Ball:The next voice comes from a regular contributor to this pod and actually the FPL, I nearly forgot the name of it there, the FPL podcast from BBC Sport.

38:12Ian Dennis:What's it called this week?

38:16Ali Bruce-Ball:So this voice note comes from Spud in Cambridge. I feel pretty confident about this one getting in because both John and Ali used it in their respective games this weekend.

38:27Ian Dennis:I don't know how much you've seen of Osula, but he is, as we say, a bit of a bag of tricks. And he is quite gangly tall. Support from Minto. Clever touch. Takes him into the area. Still Minto. Hits the shot. Oh, my goodness. me what a goal that would have been Trafford at full stretch was worried about that it's gone behind for the goal kick but Minte an absolute box of tricks there took himself past eight neri so I think the only real question is should it be a box of tricks or a bag of tricks maybe Ian Dennis can cast the deciding vote now which one was first there was that Osula on Saturday wasn't it yeah And minty on Sunday, Ali.

39:10Ian Dennis:On Sunday, yeah. Have you been subliminally...

39:13Ali Bruce-Ball:I think that's just in my own personal, you know, that comes out now and again. But I think I would always go box rather than bag. Bag?

39:23Ian Dennis:In a bag?

39:24Ali Bruce-Ball:Where are you going with that?

39:25John Murray:Bag of tricks, box of tricks.

39:27Ali Bruce-Ball:He's a real box. I don't know. Is he a box? Is he a bag? What do you think?

39:31John Murray:Is the bag or the box, is it going in regardless? I'd quite like to put that. Oh, I see, yeah.

39:36Ian Dennis:Osula, not Asula. Osula. I actually think I listened to that on the pronunciation. Oh. I think I did listen to that on the pronunciation video. Yeah. We can check that later. That's a good... I'm sure Nathan will include that at this very moment.

39:53John Murray:William, Osula. One more time, please. William, Osula. I've got him on my phone and he says Asula. Well, I want to send that to Nathan. Well, Nathan will have it.

40:05Ian Dennis:And he'll play, and we will, it'll be proven. Definitively. Yeah. Without question.

40:12Ali Bruce-Ball:William or Sula. So, box or bag? Well, so there's two there. You've got to decide whether it's box or bag, but also whether it goes in the glossary. Can we not have balls? Does it go in the glossary? Does the term go in the glossary?

40:24Ian Dennis:Box slash a bag of tricks.

40:25Ali Bruce-Ball:Or would you use that in other sports? You would. Yeah. You probably would use it.

40:30Ian Dennis:Yeah, it can't go in there, can it? I would quite like it in our glossary, though. I'd probably go box over bag. Okay.

40:37John Murray:You watch now. In my next commentary, I'm going to say a bag of tricks.

40:39Ian Dennis:And there's one I'd quite like to get in.

40:42John Murray:Go on.

40:43Ian Dennis:Which is, in fact, I think it is on a voice note, and it's the one that is from John in Shipley.

40:50Ali Bruce-Ball:Yeah. I saw this a couple of weeks ago. I really like this one, actually. I've got a little tale to tell about this one. Hi there, John, Ian and Ali. John Francis here, Bradford City fan. I was having a general chat about football with a friend the other day when he said a phrase I've not heard in ages, but it is a phrase I've only ever heard in relation to football and it was often used in commentaries. Now, he said the team in question that he was talking about had defended like the Keystone Cops. Now, I know that these days you're more likely to hear maybe, I don't know, the defence was at sixes and sevens or they were all over the place because many younger people won't understand the Keystone Cops reference.

41:26But is Keystone Cops defending something that still comes to mind when you see terrible defending, or is it even said now and again? If so, I'd like to add it to the glossary list as I haven't heard it in relation to any other sport. Keep up the great podcast. Thanks a lot.

41:42Ian Dennis:So that's John in Shipley. We've also had that suggestion in from David in Bolden Colliery on South Tyneside on the email, and he says, Surely Keystone Cops defending is something that only comes up in football. It's a bizarre one, given it references something from silent movie days of over 100 years ago. It regularly gets an outing in commentary, yet I doubt many know where the cultural reference comes from. I myself had to double-check, says David in Bold and Colliery, which is absolutely... I totally agree with that.

42:16Ali Bruce-Ball:When was the last time you used that as a phrase in commentary?

42:20Ian Dennis:Well, I've heard that. I have heard that this season. I've heard someone say Keystone Cops this season. What's a better question is, When was the last time that you actually saw the Keystone Cops on the silver screen?

42:35Ali Bruce-Ball:Well, the game that this particular phrase reminds me of is when we did joint commentaries as five live. We had two commentators per game. And Darren Fletcher and I did Blackburn against Manchester United at Ewood Park. And Manchester United had just signed Patrice Evra and Nemanja Vidic. and everyone thought, I wonder what, you know, and obviously they came with good reputations, but United were an absolute disaster during that game. And I think it was Darren who used the, because it was, it was so Keystone Cops-esque. And that is a game I specifically linked that to because Darren also mentioned the idea, he said the next thing that's going to come out on the pitch here is an exploding car.

43:16Ali Bruce-Ball:And that actually really made me laugh. The idea of a clown driving onto the field in an exploding car. But Vinic never worked out okay.

43:23Ian Dennis:Our producer at this end, Gary Flintoff, has actually produced some video of the Keystone Cops, which is unfolding in front of our very eyes to the left. They've just dropped off a cliff, and at the moment, one of them is lying on a bench with a truncheon.

43:40Ali Bruce-Ball:They're fairly hapless, aren't they?

43:42Ian Dennis:Speaking of which... We've got some Keystone Cops laptop-ery going on.

43:49Ali Bruce-Ball:I was going to say, this whole pod is a bit Keystone Cops, isn't it, at times?

43:53John Murray:Yeah, OK. so to summarise where the cook of her sleeps yes yes Usher Shepard the ball out of play for me yes box slash bag of tricks yes

44:06Ali Bruce-Ball:I think we're going to get picked up on box bag of tricks as it featuring in other sports Keystone Cops defending gotta be

44:12Ian Dennis:let them pick us up a clean sweep all four have been well as I've said to you in this season it's up to you two to say no because I'm very much of a mood to say yes and wave virtually everything through.

44:25Ali Bruce-Ball:John, you're opening floodgates.

44:27John Murray:Well, I'm in the mood to say goodbye because that is it for this episode of the Football Daily. On the next one, we'll bring your reaction to England and Dora. And as for the commentator's view, don't forget last week's episode. You can find all of them, each and every episode, on your Football Daily feed.

44:44Ali Bruce-Ball:Enjoy Belgrade, chaps, as well. Belgrade.

44:47John Murray:Yes. I'll tell you what I am hoping to do. Hoping to get to that tunnel. if we can get access on minus match day one, the tunnel, why do you laugh at that?

44:58Ian Dennis:Because you always call it minus match day one. It's match day minus one.

45:04John Murray:You've got into my head, you know, because you have. It's almost last week I said... You keep saying minus match day one. Last week I said added on time and I thought, John says I said, so I actually then said added time and then I thought, no, I'm going back to added on time. And then I listened to a local radio commentator in midweek who then said added on time. and I thought, well, at least I'm not the only one. That doesn't make it right.

45:24Ali Bruce-Ball:Your minus match day one is almost like a sort of algebraic equation, the minus, then you're going to open the brackets and put MD1 inside rather than match day minus one. Yeah, exactly.

45:36Ian Dennis:Added on time's perfectly fine. Minus match day one's wrong.

45:40John Murray:Minus match day one? Yeah. Not to me, it's not.

45:43Ali Bruce-Ball:I've got five days of this, by the way. Yeah, good luck with that, Gary. Good luck with that. He scored goals, lifted trophies and broken records along the way. There it is! It's a day to remember the Wayne Rooney! And now he's got a podcast. Welcome to the Wayne Rooney Show. Twice a week, Wayne Rooney, Kay Curd and me, Kelly Summers, break down the biggest stories in the Premier League and beyond. As much as you'd like to say it, loyalty in football now is non-existent, whether that's from players or managers. Plus, we'll hear the funniest, wildest and most outrageous stories from Wayne's career.

46:16The Wayne Rooney Show. Everybody's talking about it. Listen on BBC Sounds.