The Commentators' View: Home Nations Special

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0:45Hello, welcome to the Football Daily. I'm John Murray and this is a special edition of the Commentator's View where usually I'm joined by Ian Dennis and Alistair Bruce Ball to talk about football, our travels and the language of football commentary. But today, because we're in an international window, we're doing something a little different. If truth be told, Ian Dennis and Alistair Bruce Ball are actually not available this week. A little bit like Jude Bellingham. They've not been selected. and instead we've given the call up and this is something I've been keen to do since we started the commentator's view we've given the call up to the BBC commentators for Scotland Wales and Northern Ireland so actually alongside me because we were both at the match last night is Mark Poyser of BBC Radio Wales so hello to you Mark welcome to the commentator's view also Liam And McLeod is on the line representing Scotland.

1:47And Joel Taggart, who deserves extra praise because Joel's going to be commentating on Northern Ireland tonight. So thanks to you two both. And Joel, as well as the match tonight, you've already been on the airwaves this morning. Yeah, a lovely morning, John. Can I say it's an honour to join you. I feel like Ian Dennis has done double. I mean, I have to begin by asking you How you actually feel about his seeming lack of commitment to this podcast. I mean, I've listened to a few and all sorts of excuses have been offered up. You know, not invited to the Ryder Cup was a pretty lame excuse as to why he didn't make an appearance.

2:24We all love Denno over here because Ian Dennis for many years was the five live man at Northern Ireland matches. That's right. Yeah. And in actual fact, I did that for a spell as well, covering Northern Ireland. In fact, you know, over time, I've covered all four of the whole nation. So I've had spells where, you know, I've covered Northern Ireland, Wales and Scotland over the years. So, I mean, Joel, I've known you for such a long time. And Liam, we've had dealings for a fair few years now as well, haven't we? Yes, indeed. And it's a pleasure to be on with such illustrious company. Obviously, we were busy last night at Hampden.

3:04It was never in doubt. Now, I mean, it's a massive three points, obviously, for Scotland, beating Greece 3-1, but I don't think they can, they certainly can't be beaten in this campaign if they want to win the group. In all likelihood, they're going to have to beat the Danes on the final day. But to set all that up, they had to win last night, and they did. But how on earth they did it, I don't know. It is brilliantly set up, though, the three remaining matches that they've got left. We'll come back to that a little bit later on. but while you and I, Liam and Joel have worked together for a long, long time doing various things Mark, you and I are quite new, aren't we in these roles together because you've stepped into the considerable shoes of Rob Phillips I have Yes, who's been on there when Rob stepped down he came on with this on The Commentator's View so how are you finding it being Rob's successor?

3:57I'm really enjoying it first game was in March at the start of this campaign and it's been really enjoyable to watch this Wales team. Maybe not enjoyable last night in the first 20 minutes when I didn't think I'd be spending my half-time googling Wales' heaviest defeats to England and thankfully we didn't get anywhere near the 9-1 in 1896. But it's been exciting and it's going to get very exciting on Monday when Wales play Belgium, which is an enormous match in this group and we're reaching the climax now and for Wales it is very much in the balance. less so I think than for the other guys. Yeah, I would think that you'll probably agree with me, the three of you.

4:38You know, it does feel different. Would you agree when you're commentating on the national team as opposed to when you're commentating on any other match? You'd agree with that, Joel? Absolutely. From our point of view, it's been refreshing this campaign because we've so many young players. So this feels like a total rebuild for Michael O 'Neill. there's a lot of excitement. You know, when Conor Bradley is one of those young players, then that gives everybody a little bit of hope. We got Trey Hulme and Daniel Ballard back into the Premier League with Sunderland's promotion. You know, you get excited when you see Callum Marshall getting minutes for West Ham at the weekend.

5:18That's another one. But there's a lot of hope, I would say, around Northern Ireland supporters and the camp these days. I think the strength with Northern Ireland, when things have gone well for Northern Ireland, It has been the strength of the team. And I think that's, you know, something that cannot be undervalued in international football. And I think it's interesting. That's what Thomas Tuchel is talking so much about at the moment rather than individuals to operate as a team. But I'd say what I'd like to hear from you is the three of you. What has been your favourite experience in the time that you've commentated on Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland?

5:52And I'll give you a little bit of thinking time. And I'll say for me, with England, it was very much that first World Cup experience under Gareth Southgate. When that was, you know, when I stepped into the shoes of Alan Green and Mike Ingham to cover England at the World Cup and for it to go in the way that it did. You know, there were some unforgettable memories in there. and despite the fact they then went on to reach the finals that they have, I think for me it was that first World Cup. What about you, Mark? Still, as I say, early days, but you've been travelling with Wales for a long time.

6:28Yes, I have. I've only been commentating from March on the men's team. I've been commentating on the women's game for about seven or eight years, but I have been covering the men in other roles and guises at the BBC for a number of years. It's quite an easy answer, really. The journey up to 2016, I think anything else is just ridiculous because that is still always what everyone talks about. Sam Vokes was alongside me in commentary last night and you just have to talk about the goal against Belgium. Nothing will top that. It's quite an easy one when it comes to Scotland. It should really be the penalty shootout win in Belgrade that took them to a major tournament for the first time since 1998.

7:10but that was during COVID so the match was off tube which to people who aren't aware of what that means you're sitting in the studio watching the telly basically so it kind of took away from the moment itself as big as it was and David Marshall's save has gone down in history one of the big moments in Scottish football with the national side but for me the Scotland game that stands out is Oslo just over two years ago during the campaign to get to Germany. And they're 1-0 down. And it was similar to last night against Greece, actually. It was a pretty poor performance, generally speaking. And Haaland gave Norway the lead from the penalty spot and looked like they were cantering towards a 1-0 victory in the Ullaval.

7:57And then from absolutely nowhere, up pops Lyndon Dykes to equalise. And at that point, I was on with Stephen Thompson, who, former Scotland international, played with Rangers, played with Burnley, played with Cardiff City. And we were both saying on air, this is a great result now. 1-1, absolutely brilliant. And then 90 seconds later, Kenny McLean pops up and wins the game. I mean, it was an astonishing turnaround. I still actually cannot believe that they won that football match. It was unbelievable. And you actually knew at that point they were going to Germany because they'd beaten Spain. which is another brilliant memory.

8:38It was just wonderful. And I think Rodri was in tears at the end of the match. I think that was the meme that people took away from that. He took it very badly, didn't he? I seem to remember. This is a man, as you know, does not lose many football matches. But he lost that one. And that set up the trip to Norway. And you knew walking away from the stadium that night that Scotland were going to the tournament. Ourselves and I think the Scotland supporters were not too concerned about the£12 pints that night. It was a late one. Very good. And you're absolutely right. We've spoken on here before with Ian and Ali about commentating, as you say, off-tube when you're in the studio.

9:16And actually, I was commentating on the penalty shootout win against Serbia, off-tube in Salford, with Pat Nevin and Roddy Forsyth in the studio with me. And, you know, one of the key, exciting, dramatic moments of that night, I remember a woman came into the room and emptied the bins in the studio. And I remember thinking, this is not how it's supposed to be, is it? So yes, I get entirely where you're coming from. I find it very difficult because you're not across everything that's happening. And just little things like substitutions, if you can't see the numbers and you're not that au fait with, for example, Belarus, who Scotland have got on Sunday, if you're not au fait with the faces of these players, you're then in a really sticky position because you're live on air, but you don't actually know for sure, for certain, who it is that's coming on.

10:05You can get caught out, unfortunately, when you're doing games like that. I was just going to say a quick off-tube story. In the early days of us doing off-tube commentaries, we were watching a stream on the TV which was from somebody's laptop. So whatever they were looking at on their laptop, that's what we would see. So the teams come out, we're all set for the anthems, and then whoever's laptop it was started checking his emails. So all we had was this guy's email screen on our TV in the big room. the stories of what goes wrong with off-tube commentaries they are some of my that means this is absolute niche commentator chat isn't it but some of them over the years i mean i've certainly um spoken to colleagues who've who've ended up with the wrong pictures it might have been my great friend john helm was telling me this one that he was doing a commentary and with i think it's possibly ron atkinson who said as the teams came it was a brazil match and that was being done off-tube from a studio.

11:04And Ron Atkinson's opening remarks were, it's funny, Brazil at the Marricanar. I've never seen Brazil not wear yellow shirts. And of course, it wasn't Brazil. It was some other random match in South America. Anyway, listen, Joel, you've had plenty of thinking time, although I suspect you probably don't need too much thinking time to think about your fondest memory covering Northern Ireland. I've got to tell you a story about a game that wasn't off-tube, and for many reasons I'm glad it wasn't. My first ever commentary, it was in Malta about 25 years ago, and we didn't get on air for the entire first half.

11:43So the local telecoms guy, he's sort of fiddling around with all these cables, and I'm there ready, first ever game, and you're psyched up. I'm like, the disappointment of nothing for the entire first half. And we were doing the game on TV and also radio. And anyone who is listening to the podcast and they will know that the great Jackie Fullerton was the TV commentator at the time. And the head of sports in Northern Ireland back then was the late, great Terry Smith. And he was on the trip and he's running in and out between the two boos, telling Jackie, you're also on the radio. You know, keep talking, keep talking, keep talking.

12:24And Jackie's looking at him and all these kind of hand gestures. So it's the same thing at halftime. and Jackie comes into the room and says to Terry, Terry, I mean, what am I meant to do here? So, you know, the people listening on radio are saying, tell me more. And the people on television are saying, would you ever shut up? The two very different disciplines. But we got on there in the second half, during which Sammy McElroy was sent off from the bench. His assistant manager, Jimmy Harvey, was also then sent off. And the team was managed by the kit man. And he ended up managing the team. and it concluded with this great moment when he took off David Healy, who had scored the only goal in the game.

13:03And he's looking over at the kit man and saying, what, you're bringing me off? Are you sure? And he waved over and David was taken off. So that was my first ever commentary. I'm glad it wasn't off-tube. But in terms of best game, John, I may be throwing off this podcast. It's going to have to be the England game, isn't it? 20 years ago last month. I suspected that might have been where you were heading. You know, Beckham, Lampard, Gerrard, Owen, all come to town. And from absolutely nowhere, we get the win. 1-0, David Healy, Steve Davis with the pass. And anybody that was there will forever remember that night.

13:41I'm sorry. I'm sorry I've gone for a win against England. You can only speak the truth to the free people of the world, Joel. You should never apologise for that, Joel. I know. I knew you'd be backing up, Liam. Well done. You mentioned Jackie Fullerton, Joel. Did you take over the radio commentary from Jackie? No, there was another commentator called Jackie Cummings, another Jackie. And in a different era as well, John, I mean, I felt lucky to get the tail end of that era where you were still travelling with the team, you were still in the team hotel, the players would all mingle. I remember that vividly, that first international that I did in Malta, the day before the game I was playing doubles tennis against the two goalkeepers, Roy Carroll and Mike Taylor, the day before the match I mean when you think of it now it's absolutely bonkers and I always remember thinking to myself if one of these two, or heaven forbid both of them, go over on an ankle, how do I how do I report this you know, and Joel what happened to Roy Carroll and Mike Taylor to result in them not being able to play.

14:54Well, actually, I had a great forehand down the line. They both collided and fell over. You know, it was just the end of a different era, and you got all the stories and all that. I mean, Jackie would tell you his experience even in the 80s then. You know, if Jackie had played Irish League football, he won a league championship within the broadcasting and the commentary. In 82, if they were, you know, an even number of players in a training session, Billy Bingham would ask Jackie to join in, make it an even number. You know, crazy stuff. And Liam, you, I think I'm pretty sure right in saying that you stepped into the shoes of the great David Begg.

15:33He was one of them, yeah. Certainly all these guys that I listened to as a kid, getting the opportunity to follow in their footsteps is pretty special. He's got a much better voice than I've got. I'd like to be an octave or two deeper if I could. Unfortunately, I'm probably beyond that now. I think. Well, as I always say to people, Liam, you know, no, it doesn't matter how long you broadcast. I don't think people generally do like the sound of their own voice. No, no. I think the same token, and I still do it now and again, because I still feel like I'm learning all the time. I'll try and listen back to what I'm doing and, you know, listening back to a bit of the Greece game last night.

16:12I think everyone's got one of these. I keep seeing things like obviously, you know, the word obviously. it's a ludicrous word to use so often when many of it's not obvious might be obvious to me so it's almost like I'm talking to myself you know it's it's trying to kind of iron out that kind of thing even at this stage having been doing it for a couple of decades there's still phrases that I use that I tell myself not to use them but they they just like it's like automatically for whatever reason an autopilot they keep coming back um but yeah it's I mean it's a fabulous opportunity having not been good enough to be a footballer to be involved in the game it's just great and obviously we come across each other every now and again John you know if it's a tournament or if Scotland are playing England or if it's a club match or whatever it's always a pleasure to knock heads with you guys Yeah where was it you took us was that when we covered Rangers and you were desperate to go to one of your favourite spots Where was that?

17:18It was Eindhoven. Eindhoven, of course it was. Since this is the BBC, I better not mention the name of the restaurant. No, no, I can't do that. Suffice to say, it's a steak restaurant, which is a chain in the Netherlands, which I've been in love with for many years now. You were unable to hide your enthusiasm for going there. Yeah, and unfortunately, when the lady was struggling to find us a table, I was struggling to hide my disappointment. If I'm going to the Netherlands in December, can you send me the name of that restaurant? We'll do that. We'll do that, Joel. You'll love it. Good. By the way, now we mention, it should really mention, I think it is, we would say this is BBC men, but, you know, Liam, commentating on the TV last night, now, widely available, all of the World Cup qualifiers for Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland, widely available on the BBC iPlayer.

18:07It is brilliant. I've been glued to that over the course of the recent qualifiers. We've obviously got the really important radio coverage as well, but also clips go on social media. The highlights can go on the website. You've then got rights for other matches as well to go back to. So, yeah, I mean, long may it continue in that regard. Yeah, it's probably very old-fashioned of me and doesn't really tally with how things are in the world in which we live, but it does feel right that the national football teams should be freely available to everyone. But I'll tell you what I was going to ask you as well, Mark.

18:45Having had my first experience over the course of the last few days of seeing Craig Bellamy as the Wales manager, interesting times. Very interesting. And isn't he an engaging character to sit and listen to? Enormously. And wherever we go, he puts on that sort of show, if you like, for want of a better phrase, for the visiting journalists or whatever country it is that we go to. He certainly did that at Wembley on the eve of the match. But he was like that as a player. He knows so much, watches so much football from all sorts of different countries. In a previous job before I joined the BBC, I was working on another radio station when he played for Cardiff.

19:26He was on loan and he came in to do a phone-in programme. So he's sitting down and getting him a drink, asking him, how are you? Oh, yeah, I was up late last night watching a game in Lithuania. You must have approached that with some trepidation. I didn't know what the answer was going to be. That's the thing about Craig Bellamy. When you ask him a question, invariably, he gives you an answer that you weren't expecting. There's no sort of gimmies. Oh, he'll say this if I ask him this. So he does keep you on your toes. He did as a player and he did as a manager. But he was telling me that time when he was a player at Cardiff how he was watching a Lithuanian second division game.

20:05So we're going back 15 years now when he was telling me this. So imagine what he's now like as a manager when he just studies so much football and every minute detail is so important to him. And he knows so much about the opponents that when we go to countries, he can reel off some of their great players from the last 20 years or so. It's been so entertaining following him as manager. You don't know what he's going to say. You don't know what the team are going to do. It's been a real rollercoaster ride. But like Northern Ireland, we have the Nations League back up as a playoff. So even if Wales do not finish in the top two, they will surely be in the playoffs.

20:46And if they play somebody at home, I wouldn't back against a Craig Bellamy Wales team at home, backed by that incredible Wales support, which you got a little bit of a flavour of last night in the second half, where they decided we're just going to have a party at 3-0 down. Talking about Craig Bellamy there, Mark I remember covering I don't know if you remember this competition, it's probably not on your radar John, it might be on Joel's it was a kind of mini tournament maybe 14 years ago played in Dublin The Carling Nations Cup I remember that as well You say it might not be on my radar, I was there I was there as well What a tournament it was But I remember Scotland were playing Wales and Craig Bellamy, I can't remember if he was involved or not, if he played in the game, but what I do remember is being pitch side, doing the interviews.

21:42And I thought, I wouldn't mind a word with Bellamy because he obviously had his time at Celtic, which was short, but it was fairly spectacular. And I thought, I'm going to chance my arm here and try and get a little interview. And he was dressed in the sharpest silver suit you've ever seen in your life. And obviously he's still playing at the time and, you know, he's just standing there, just fit as a fiddle. And I thought, I'm going to chance my arm here. So I went over to speak to him and says, Craig, you've got a minute for BBC Scotland? And he just looked me up and down, looked at me in the eyes and went, nah, and just walked off.

22:18I thought, that's me putting my place. You know, I mean, at least he was kind of relatively nice about it, but you know. It wasn't exactly a huge success, that tournament, Liam, was it? No, they didn't bring it back. There's always been this romanticism about trying to bring back a version of the home international championship, but without England, it didn't have the same oomph. I think that's how you would describe it. But that's the thing, isn't it, John? When it comes to England, I think there's been a few England-Scotland games recently, which I think have been pretty well-received and they've been pretty competitive, perhaps save for the World Cup qualifying game at Wembley.

22:57And Scotland have only lost one World Cup qualifier since then in a group, which is remarkable. She's won defeat in 19. Thought I'd just slip that in there. But the big games for England nowadays are kind of Germany and Argentina and the like, aren't they, John? I think that's probably the ones that get the English juices going rather than a match against the home nations. Well, I can raise you with England now have lost one of their last 72 European Championship and World Cup qualifiers. Yeah, that's not a bad record. It's okay. It's not a bad record, that. Let me just, because as I always say on here, you know, podcasts are great.

23:39I know people absolutely love to listen to them, but in my opinion, the best thing we do is actually the live commentary on the radio. So let me run you through the matches that are coming up over the course of the next few days. So you'll find these on the BBC iPlayer to watch, on BBC Radio 5 Live, and on BBC Scotland, BBC Wales, BBC Northern Ireland. So Friday night, 7.45, Northern Ireland against Slovakia. Sunday night, Scotland against Belarus. Then Monday night, that massive game that you'll be covering, Mark, Wales against Belgium. Northern Ireland against Germany as well, Joel. And then on Tuesday night, Latvia against England, when I'll be in Riga with Ian Dennison and Matt Upson.

24:28But I'll tell you what I was going to ask you. And I think what would be fascinating to know is, given all of our experience and the travelling that we do, is there a European country that, between us, we've not been to? So where have you got on your list of European countries, with football covering the team, that you've not been to? For example... Well, I'd say your list has to be shorter than the rest of us, John. So I think you'd go for it. Well, not necessarily. You see, I've never been to Norway for football. Well, I've never been to Norway at all. I've not been to Georgia, Armenia. I've been to Armenia last year.

25:12Yerevan was very nice. Has anybody been to Georgia? I've been to all those ones, John, that you've just listed. Belarus I've not been to. I've been to Belarus. No, I haven't either. Yeah, so Joel's done Belarus. Where else have I not? Liechtenstein. Have you done Liechtenstein? I'm going to Liechtenstein next month. Right, okay. I've been a couple of times. Check out the casino in Bendern, Mark, if you're there. you'll enjoy it any steak restaurants to recommend as well no no not there the Netherlands have got you covered Liam just goes to check his bank account makes a lot of money do you know what the only reason that I mentioned the casino in Berndern is because we went there for a friendly in June and it was a national holiday so nothing was open apart from this casino which had a bar and a free buffet which for a man from Aberdeen is obviously not to be sniffed at.

26:08Luxembourg I've not been to. Been there. Gibraltar is another one I've not done but I'm sure one of you will have been there. I've done that. Do Andorra play in Andorra yet or do they still play outside of Andorra? Well, sometimes they play outside as they did at the end of last season against England in Barcelona when I went to the Espanol Stadium. But I have done Andorra-Lavella as well. That was the famous occasion when England went there and on the day before the match, the stadium caught fire. Right. We were outside the ground. We saw this fire engine coming past. I said, where's that going?

26:40And then we turned and there's smoke billowing out of this main stand of this stadium. And the Andorran Fire Brigade had to put out the fire in the main stand. So do we think we have a full set then, John? Is that what you're saying? I think we might have covered the lot. Oh, Faroes, I'm not done. Not done, but you have. The Faroes has the best fish and chip shop in the world, officially. I would go to the Faroes just for the fish and chips. Nice. Fantastic. Stunning. It's a long way for fish and chips. Maybe this question should be our favourite restaurants in countries rather than stadiums. What's your favourite commentary position in Wales, Northern Ireland, Scotland, if you want to be diplomatic or otherwise, or just be honest?

27:27It's hearts and heads. at Tyne Castle and Easter Road. The positions are fabulous. You can see everything and great views as well. Albeit the new main stand at Tyne Castle has prevented you seeing the castle and Arthur's seat now, which is a bit disappointing. The one at Hampden is really good as well, but I'd say the two Edinburgh clubs for me. In Wales, we've only got the four league clubs. They all have their own quirks. Newport have got the poles at Rodney Parade, which can obscure your view. However, in terms of acoustics, the noisiest fans all sit around and stand around your commentary position.

28:03So from an acoustics point of view, when they get going down at Rodney Bray, it sounds tremendous. Wrexham has been transformed, as we know, by the Hollywood guys. So you're always spying over to the stand on the far side to see which celebrity is going to be in the posh seats at the top. Swansea, you are relatively high up. The cameras are literally over your shoulder. You're right on the halfway line. That is a tremendous view. Cardiff City Stadium is slightly lower down and to the right of the halfway line, which is not always perfect for a commentator. I'm sure you guys will agree we like to be bang on the halfway line.

28:39Having said that, though, you do get a wonderful view of the double-tiered stand across from us and then the Canton stand to the left, which is always a sea of red. And they make such a noise as well. And we'll hear and see that on Monday against Belgium. Yeah, speaking of celebrities, you just reminded me that last weekend was an absolute A-list special for me at Chelsea Liverpool when it was one of the sort of penalty shouts that there was. And we had the TV screen next to it. So I'm looking at the TV screen. So I thought, well, they're going to replay this. And instead, I'm looking at the screen and there's the close-up of this woman in a thick coat.