The Commentators' View: John’s facial & the Cardiff rat

0:00This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. If there was a big red button that would just demolish the internet, I would smash that button with my forehead. From the BBC, this is The Interface, the show that explores how tech is rewiring your week and your world. This isn't about quarterly earnings or about tech reviews. It's about what technology is actually doing to your work, your politics, your everyday life. And all the bizarre ways people are using the internet. Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.

0:40The Commentator's View on the Football Daily with Alistair Bruce Ball, John Murray, and Ian Dennis. Hello, welcome to the Football Daily. I'm Alistair Bruce Ball, and this is the Commentator's View where we five live commentators discuss the football we've seen, the places we've been, and the sometimes sport-specific language we use to describe it. That's where our great glossary of football commentary comes in, and we'll get to that in a bit. The BBC's senior football reporter, Ian Dennis, is here. The BBC's football correspondent, John Murray, is here too. So it's a full house for this one. And talking of football travels, chaps, both freshly returned from a trip to Riga, the capital of Latvia.

1:21So, Denno, would you recommend that as a destination to go and watch your football and do a bit of sightseeing? Well, John's probably better to answer that question, Ali, because he had an extra 24 hours in Riga than I did. And when I arrived, I was straight into minus match day one duties. Sorry, I've got to keep it up. And also, it was raining a lot of the time I was there. But I did a little bit of TV work when I was out there for BBC television. So we did a little bit of filming. And I've got to say, it looked, I mean, I've been before, but it's a very, very pleasant city. But if you want the old tourist cell, although I noticed he said looking fresh, And I will say that John is looking fresh.

2:01But John, before we get into that, because you'll have your own version when we come to a story I'm going to tell in a minute. And you're going to interrupt me. So I'm just going to wait for you to get your little bit out first. Well, I was going to say, John, just before you do, I have to say that trip in particular, it does look like it's taken years off you. So what's happened? Well, let me say, first of all, that Latvia, Riga, I'd not been to. I knew it was a long time ago, but I didn't realize quite how long ago it was. until I looked up the match, which was Sconto Riga against Chelsea, when, as I later discovered or had my memory jogged, that was in 1999.

2:41And it was a Champions League qualifier. So it was the final Champions League qualifying round. And it was Chelsea under Gianluca Vialli. And they'd won the first leg, 3-0 at Stamford Bridge. I do remember it was me and Mark Bright who went to Riga to cover that match. but the significance of it was that it ended as a nil-nil draw in Riga and it was in the same stadium although the stadium is is radically different now um but that meant that Chelsea qualified to play in the Champions League for the first time and who was an unused substitute I definitely know the answer to that because his name's already coming to my head that's Chris Sutton's time at Chelsea of course it is yes and so Chris was an unused substitute in that stadium And it was such a long time ago, and I have a feeling that it was a bit of an in-and-out job.

3:30And I didn't see a great deal of Riga, but I did this time. And in the autumn as well, a Baltic state in the autumn is particularly attractive. So the trees, I mean, it is a really, really attractive city centre. Tubbles, spires, domes. There's a park that runs all through it. The Daugava River is very wide there as well. and you can take trips up and down the Daugava River, although for the first day or so, it was very windy. So this wind was whipping in off the Baltic, which had a real chilly edge to it. And the Daugava looked a bit choppy for my liking. So I wasn't tempted to have a trip down the river, but I would recommend it, most certainly.

4:10But had your face been weather-beaten, then all of a sudden it would have been revitalised on the way home, would it not? Yes, we had a bit of an incident, didn't we, in Riga International Airport. Ali, can you remember the nickname for David Beckham? Golden Balls. Golden Balls. Yeah, Golden Balls. So as we're walking through Riga Airport, this lady at some sort of like makeup stand reaches out, extends her arm and hands a little sachet to somebody who she said had a golden face, John Murray. Now, I personally would have said he might have a golden voice. but before we know it and i did help this young lady called emily get john into the to the hot seat before we know it she's going through the full yeah and and it was full on as well the whole cell it was a hard sell glasses it was a hard sell that's as hard a sell as i've ever experienced she was not taking no for an answer so what did you buy and before honestly it was all I could do to get out of there without buying something and I mean she was crestfallen in the end.

5:21I recorded some commentary she gave me some commentary I don't know whether we've got a chance to hear it. Okay so I'm applying peeling because of the capillars that are closed and because of the plain skin this peeling contains rhodium that is going to soothe cupillars make them stronger and reduce redness over the face also it's taking out all the dirt all the dust from outside the face, soothing pores and make it golden. I'm not going to see that it reduces wrinkles. Yeah. For wrinkles, we have different products. This one is actually for cleaning. She was telling me what she was doing. And John said, she said, how old are you?

5:59So John went, how old do you think I am? So she said, 60. He went, you're not far off. So I then said how old do you think i am and bearing in mind i was 44 in 2019 her answer confused me because she said 48 50 which just added that was that was the worst that was the worst thing that happened there anyway she then wanted to sell this product for about 300 euros 300 euros yeah that was the opening gambit let's say i'm surprised by that time by that time i had half of it smeared on me yeah i'm 150 pounds worth yeah i'm surprised that you you fell into that trap i mean i've done a bit of traveling with you and if anyone comes anywhere near me with a free sachet of anything i walk around you know i turn the opposite way and i'm never going to get accosted like that i was surprised well she just before i knew it i was sitting on this high chair having this treatment smeared on my eyes she was an incredible performer wasn't she she was yeah she literally would not take no for an answer was she more impressive than the Latvian football team well actually I thought the Latvian football team actually did okay in that match I mean they are ranked 140th in the world for a reason they've been at a pretty low ebb they drew 2-2 with Andorra the Saturday before and you know they are let's not beat about the bush they are quite limited and most of their players play in the domestic Latvian league but they just ran into England at the absolutely wrong time and they are, as we know, very much in a groove and were quite ruthless.

7:41As the English departed, whether it be the football team or the BBC's chief football correspondent, the Latvians were left crestfallen. I wasn't left crestfallen because I kept my 300 euros in my wallet. What would you two say? You cover England home and away regularly, have done for years. What would you say to England fans, you know, that I've spoken to in the week who say, I am so bored with qualification campaigns for England. It's too easy. They roll over everyone. There's no jeopardy at all. You know, what would you? And do you think also, do you think it's particularly English of us, of them, to complain about England winning too easily?

8:22Almost that we want problems. Yeah, I do. I think you're absolutely right, Ali. And listen, when I was growing up, I remember England not qualifying for World Cups. And, you know, in my early, early years, 1982 was the first World Cup that I remember that England qualified for. Before that, England didn't qualify in my football watching time. And I would not want to go through that again. Of course, it's totally different now because we're talking about a 48-team World Cup as opposed to a 16-team World Cup back then. So, you know, qualification is naturally more straightforward. But my feeling is, and I know that this has been talked about, how it can become more interesting and more competitive.

9:01And, you know, I feel it's there. And I've said this on air before to you two, that I feel that it is absolutely there. It just needs to be worked out how they will do this, that the Nations League set up needs to be adapted to make that the qualification process. So effectively, if you're in the top tier of the Nations League, you're qualified. You're going to get there. And then the Nations League becomes what you're actually playing for. Your qualification is already secured. That is the way to do it. It's there. The template is there. It just needs to be adapted. Even for 2010, there might have been a little bit more jeopardy in a qualifying campaign.

9:38But when FIFA all of a sudden are saying, oh, we're going to have 48 teams competing at the World Cup, for your top nations, it always is going to be harder not to qualify than to qualify. So therefore, you might as well accept that they're going to be there anyway. So in the Nations League, if you are in the top tier of the Nations League, you are, you know, however many places. but if you're in there then you're going to qualify and then you'll have your other playoff places for the teams behind in the Nations League while at the same time playing in the Nations League. One last one on England before we move it on.

10:14What do you think Thomas Tuka will do for the next two games now that England are qualified? So in terms of some of the players that haven't been in the squad recently does that give him a sort of convenient not an excuse to get them back in but maybe to change things up a bit? No, I think the other I don't know about you Ian but I think he will stick with what he's done this time. That's my expectation. It's three weeks' time before that next squad is named. And my feeling would be, if everyone is fit, it is entirely possible that he does the same thing again because he wants that continuity.

10:44They're only going to play a handful of matches before actually they play their first match at the World Cup. He's got the blend. They're in the groove. And I don't see him making changes unless he absolutely has to. And of course, there will be injuries. And then that will open the way for others to come back in. I agree. And if Jude Bellingham, for instance is one of those players who is brought back in then I definitely think that he'll be starting on the bench because Morgan Rodgers deserves to start ahead of Jude Bellingham but actually Phil Foden probably has a greater claim right now because he is starting regularly for Manchester City and playing very well whereas Jude Bellingham is still mainly being used as a substitute by Xabi Alonso at Real Madrid having come back from this shoulder injury that he has So actually, if he continues his form, Phil Foden is probably the first in the queue.

11:34And of course, Palmer's injured at the moment. But, you know, so that means that to my eyes, Foden is probably the first possible man who would come back in. I'm pretty sure, John, you won't have listened back to last week's episode. But I can tell you that I did listen to last week's episode of The Commentator's View, which I really enjoyed, which was the Home Nation special. I'm pleased to hear that. And you weren't able to find a European football destination, were you, that none of you had been to? Which was fascinating, isn't it? That's what I suspected. That's why I asked the question. Yeah.

12:09So Derby fan Ruth gets in touch. So we love your contributions. Your emails come in on tcv at bbc.co.uk and the voice notes to 08000 289 369. And Ruth is a Derby fan. She says, I wanted to express my appreciation for last week's Home Nation special. I'm English and I want England to do well, but being a citizen of the UK, I also support Northern Ireland, Wales and Scotland. It was wonderful to hear all of them represented on the pod. So our thanks again to the BBC's Mark Poyser, Liam McLeod and Joel Taggart for keeping John company last week. And Liam's win in Clash of the Commentators, I think is the best win I've ever heard.

12:47He rattled off three names in the last two seconds to nick it on the line. It was an absolute nail-biter, wasn't it? And I thought they put us to shame because they were excellent. Yeah, but hang on. Hang on. What I would say to defend us there. Well, first of all, Dano's having a great season in Clash of the Commentators. Yes, that is a fair point. Although he boasts, doesn't he? He boasts. And he's probably going to boast again if he'd been doing it last week. He would have won that one as well. But I think if I gave you, you know, England's top 26 goal scorers of all time, you two, you're getting tons of those.

13:21I mean, I think I would do quite well on Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland for that, I think. Yeah. They did well. It's all very well saying that. I know. As we know, it's a different thing actually coming up with them when you've got 30 seconds. Yeah. So my game, my game in the international window was Wales against Belgium, which finished Wales to Belgium. In fact, you guys saw Wales at Wembley the week before. And having watched the first 20 minutes of that, I was quite worried about what might happen to Wales in Cardiff on the Monday night. but I was saying to you Ian just before we came on air and I'm sure you got a flavour of this as well with Craig Bellamy I'm really enjoying the sort of bold brave approach he is taking in terms of the football they're playing and the way they try and take on teams like Belgium and England but what he's not cracked yet is how to get a win against those teams which is what Chris Coleman managed to do and Rob Page managed to do playing a different style and obviously having a certain you know who Gareth Bale in the team but I really want Bellamy to do well for Wales.

14:22I find him a really engaging, interesting football manager. I remember him as a player. He was quite waspish, wasn't he? But he's a calmer individual now, it would seem, in management. Maybe you could say that they need to be a little bit more pragmatic when they're playing against the better teams. I think that's probably what I'd say. But I love his approach. and it will not surprise me in the slightest if we see him at some point in the future as a Premier League manager. I think the way that he is and the way that he presents himself and also the way he wants his teams to play football, that will be attractive to people who are appointing managers.

15:04I'm absolutely certain of that. We also had a little twist in the tail at my game in Cardiff on Monday. Have a listen to this, chaps. Real class act in the middle of the park. there was a rat on the pitch on our monitor there is a rat somewhere running around and there it is yeah Brennan Johnson is chasing a rat off the field now I've seen many things in football and I've seen all sorts of different animals on football pitches I don't think I've ever seen that the rat chased off the field by Brennan Johnson the ball boy sitting down on the little stool at the side of the pitch looks more scared of the rat than Brennan Johnson he wasn't bothered at all well there we go as i was talking about that your brain's whirring away i was trying to think of a rat pun and i was i i sort of landed upon you know deserting the sinking ship but whales were losing at the time but i thought that's a bit harsh you can't say they're deserting the sinking ship rat in the kitchen would have been good the one um someone else suggested to me uh it was katrin on bbc radio wales the following morning joe rodent was playing so you could have Joe Rodent.

16:10Joe Rodent. That was it. That's the one. That's the one. That was the one. Although Janet in Morton says, was it a rat on the field or a large mouse? That's a rat. The size of the tail. That's a rat. It's a rat. It's a rat. It's a rat. It's not a rat. It is. Yeah, the faulty tail is both. But I mean, that's... Siberian hamster. What is that? It's my hamster. Hamster? Si, si. Man, well, it's a rat. It's a rat. No, no, no, no, it's hamster. No, I think so too. What? I say to man in shop, it's a rat. He say, no, no, no, it's a special kind of hamster. It's filigree Siberian hamster. Only one in shop, he makes special price, only five pounds.

16:59What do you do? I'm sorry, Manuel, this is a rat. No, no, it's hamster. It's not hamster. Hamsters are small and cuddly. Cuddle this, you'd never play the guitar again. Come on. Come on. I always got told you never corner a rat because they'll jump for your throat. Oh, my goodness. Will they? Have you heard that? I have never heard that. No, I've never. Right. If any of our listeners have ever cornered a rat and had it go for their throat, I'd be fascinated to hear from them. Yeah. TCV at BBC.co.uk. Or a voice note if you've still got your voice after having a rat attack your throat. What? 08 ,000, 289, 369.

17:41Very good. What animals have you seen run onto the football pitches and stop play? I mean, dog is obvious. I've definitely seen a cat. I've seen a cat. I've seen a fox. And wasn't there at Old Trafford with mice? Not that long ago. Was that on the pitch, though? Or was that in the stands? On the pitch. On the pitch? On the pitch. Yeah. At Old Trafford. Yeah. And obviously animals get brought on to certain football pitches. I mean, Hereford always had the bull. I've done that. Have you done that? That is brilliant. When they bring the bull on the pitch, and they take the bull around the pit, that is a magnificent sight, that.

18:19The Hereford bull. The Eagle? The Eagle? In Lisbon? Yeah, at Benfica. Yeah. Which is brilliant. They don't do it at Selhurst Park anymore. They used to do that, didn't they? But at Benfica, that was one of the most amazing sights. The Eagle flies around and circles around before the map. Have you been there and seen it? I don't think I have. Oh, it's incredible. And suddenly it circles all the way around. This is just before kickoff. And then comes down and lands on its keeper's gauntlet. It's an amazing sight. You've seen it, Ian, haven't you? I have. I've seen it many times. I've got an answer, by the way.

18:57You should not corner a rat, as it can become aggressive and bite or scratch out of fear. when trapped, a rat's natural instinct is to defend itself. That's not quite good for your throat. No. I tell you what, it wouldn't get to your throat, would it? I'd like to think not, particularly with my glowing golden face.

19:21Nige Tassel, friend of the podcast, football writer, Nige, gets in touch. This is a great point, Nige. I always think this when I listen to John doing whichever commentary he's doing. Hello, gents. I'm currently listening to the England-Wales match. Is there a player's name that John, specifically John, enjoys saying out loud more than that of Kiefer Moore? Kiefer Moore. Kiefer Moore. I love it. Turf Moore. Yeah. Alan gets in touch as well from Cooper in Fife. He says, hi all, love the pod, very much look forward to its release every Friday. On the international theme, my pub name suggestion is one that would perhaps be more popular in my native Scotland, The Hand of God.

19:58I'm imagining it would have a microbrewery on site producing an IPA called English Tears. That is a great line, that. That has made me chuckle. I'll have a pint of English Tears, please. Just for balance, there would also be another called Scottish Bitter. Either that or just for balance, Alan, we could have the Costa Rica Rovers Return. I was also thinking, though, if you come out of the hand of God, You've got the kebab shop just outside where you get your food afterwards called the Maradona. Very good. Very good. Not really. We've got another message here from Phil. Hi, John, Ian and Ali. I've met you all at Turf Moor over the years.

20:39Turf Moor? Sorry. I've met you all at Turf Moor over the years. I chuckled at Ian's comments the other day when he couldn't see the West Ham players in their change kit at the Emirates. Fernandes looks for options. to show whether he could pick out Jared Bowen, who was in so much space on the right. Because the advertising hoardings are predominantly black, with white writing, it's hard to see the black shirt of Bowen. Yeah, and I can see him all right. I can see him all right. I'm sorry about that, mate. I know what you mean, though. I would expect you to see him. You had vision as you were a player.

21:19Bromley are leading Tramia Rovers by a goal to nil. Don't worry Andy, I can see the viddy printer in front of me. My eyesight's not that bad. Kyle Cameron has scored after 16 minutes. Throw for West Ham. And Phil continues, it made me wonder, when you've had difficulty with visibility in the past, I did a Burnley game at Priestfield over 20 years ago when you couldn't see half of the pitch because of dense fog. I also missed a fabulous Dean Marnie overhead kick at Fratton Park because of a pillar in the way. I knew he'd scored but didn't realise it was such a spectacular finish until I saw the highlights.

21:52all the best Phil so that'll be Phil Bird won't it who works for uh for Burnley TV. Phil's always good company isn't he when we go to Burnley I have yet to go to Burnley this season but on Phil's point I went through a spell where and it's a long time ago now but it was a remarkable spell in that in a short space of time I covered lots and lots of matches where the fog came in and uh some of them were called off some of them weren't I remember one at Meadow Lane Notts County, where we just couldn't see, just couldn't see the players. And that was with Dave Woods. I was commentating with our friend Dave Woods at that one.

22:29You couldn't see the trees for the forest. I couldn't. I had a real spate of them. And it's now not happened for decades. Although we are moving into autumn, aren't we? So there might be one around the corner. Listen, I'm going to take an executive decision here because we're meant to do a few more unintended pub names next, but Ian has to be away in 15 minutes time today. And we have to get to clash of the commentators because it's Ian against John today. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to skip that, John, and you and I can come back to unintended pub names. And I'm just going to flag up what we've got coming your way across Five Live and BBC Sounds this weekend in terms of the Premier League commentary.

23:09So the Premier League is back this weekend. Ian, three o 'clock Saturday, Manchester City against Everton alongside Pat Nevin. Choice are listening on Saturday because Palace Bournemouth's in full-on Sports Extra at three o 'clock. I'm at Craven Cottage for Fulham Arsenal, 5.30 on Saturday alongside Franny Benali. Jonathan Pearce makes a five live appearance on Sunday at two o 'clock alongside Rob Green for Tottenham Villa. And then, John, and this is very much a small matter. I mean, this is still one of the most impactful games, isn't it, I think, in British football, in world football. Liverpool against Manchester United at Anfield Sunday 4.30 you're there with Stephen Warnock That will be one of the most watched and followed sporting events in the world this weekend won't it?

23:56Liverpool against Manchester United the reach of the Premier League you know as we know it's on World Service as well Ian we know whenever World Service are with us there are potentially I mean scores and scores and scores of millions of listeners following that and I think this one particularly is set up very interestingly, isn't it, with Liverpool on this shock run of defeats and Manchester United, I feel, we were talking in, weren't we, on the way back from Riga, that I think now for Manchester United, they've almost got, finally under Amerim, a settled team. You kind of know who's going to play and that's always a good thing for a manager.

24:39Arna Slott's never had three successive defeats before, has he? For Liverpool. For Liverpool. So this now is already a bit of an unknown as far as he's concerned. But I just look at the two sides, and I just think it's only a matter of time before Mo Salah starts to reproduce his performances for Liverpool this season, because he's had a very slow start to the campaign. And I just think that Liverpool have the greater quality. And the fact that it's at Anfield as well. Yeah, yeah. where their record is so good and so strong. Do either of you have any standout memories of previous Liverpool-Manchester United games that you've commentated on?

25:16Something that really sticks in the mind. I mean, I don't think I've ever commentated on one. I was saying to Ian before we started recording the pod, it always takes me back to getting into football in the early 80s when Liverpool were the dominant force, but Manchester United had Brian Robson and Norman Whiteside and Frank Stapleton. I always remember those games and Dalgleish and Rush and Hanson, those games always sort of stick in my mind a little bit. The one that comes to my mind, which is a little bit different, you both remember it, when a young John Joe Shelby decided he was going to take on Alex Ferguson.

25:50Do you remember? No. On the side of the pitch. And they had an exchange, shall we say. Yeah. And the other one I remember as well, at more relatively recent times was when Torres tore Manchester United apart at Old Trafford, didn't he? I think it was 4-1 Liverpool that day. You know when a certain player, you just cannot be handled, cannot be dealt with, and he couldn't, could he, that day? Well, that one, a scout told me that ahead of the game, Vidic struggles when you turn him to his left. And if you look back at that game, Torres kept attacking him down that side. And every time Vidic turned, he was slower.

26:28and with that little insight it was it was fascinating to uh to watch to see how much he struggled and as to torres exploited that weakness in his game welcome to the team behind the team a new podcast series in partnership with the open university where we'll be showcasing the people the tools and the techniques to help athletes and teams reach elite level like all elite sports it's it's a pyramid and everybody's trying to get to the top It's not just my vision. It's a shared vision amongst the team. What is this? This is not the way I see the game. The team behind the team with Katie Smith. In partnership with The Open University.

27:08Listen on BBC Sounds. If there was a big red button that would just demolish the internet, I would smash that button with my forehead. From the BBC, this is The Interface, the show that explores how tech is rewiring your week and your world. This isn't about quarterly earnings or about tech reviews. It's about what technology is actually doing to your work, your politics, your everyday life, and all the bizarre ways people are using the internet. Listen on bbc.com or wherever you get your podcasts.

27:46The Commentator's View on the Football Daily with Alistair Bruce Ball, John Murray, and Ian Dennis. let's move it on to clash of the commentators and thankfully i i'm hosting this today i'm not involved i'm in a terrible run of form and not not only on this podcast i'm having a nightmare on the fpl podcast from bbc sport every quiz i attempt at the moment i'm getting beaten in so i'm absolutely delighted that i'm not playing today yes been there been there and experienced that so i know exactly how you feel like so last season's champion ali is still rooted at the bottom of the league table. Four defeats in a row, Ali.