The Commentators' View: Kit gripes & anxiety dreams

11:09Ali Bruce-Ball:When was the last time, Ian, you were at the Stadium of Light? It wasn't that long ago, actually.

11:14John Murray:It was about two years ago. Sunderland played Fulham in an FA Cup tie. And you might recall the original game at Craven Cottage, Chris Rigg who, I mean, he's still, what, 18, so it would have been 16 at the time, no he might have even been 15, came off the bench and had a late goal disallowed. He would have won it, but he would have become the youngest ever goal scorer in FA Cup history had the goal not been ruled out. Anyway, finished 1-1, back to the stain of light, did the replay. So I've got to admit, and I haven't checked this yet, I'm hoping the commentary position

11:53Ian Dennis:has changed. I was just going to say it's one of the most challenging commentary positions, isn't it? Yeah, I've had two quite vivid dreams in the build-up to the new season.

12:03John Murray:Have you? Not nightmares, I hope. Well, bordering on a nightmare, one of them was at the Stadium of Light, where I actually... This was ahead of my eye test, so every two years I have an eye test.

12:15Ian Dennis:Yeah, I think that is what most members of the public are encouraged to do.

12:19John Murray:Yeah, so I did that, and it was ahead of going into the opticians, and I was there at the Stadium of Light, right at the back of the main stand, and we're a long, long way back. And I did the commentary, but I actually couldn't see. I couldn't commentate on the shirts. And I woke up thinking, oh, that was quite vivid. The other vivid dream was is that, bizarrely, I stuffed my ISDN equipment, our broadcast equipment, into my rucksack and damaged my iPad and I wasn't able to view the scores as well, which is an essential part of my three o 'clock commentary. So it's almost as if it's been in my, I'm returning to work and my worst case scenarios are in my in the old mind

12:59Ali Bruce-Ball:those are classic anxiety dreams aren't they that's like dreaming about school exams and having not revised and that sort of thing why so is it just distance from the pitch because I've not been to the stadium I can't remember the commentary position it's a long way away oh it's

13:14Ian Dennis:yeah it is a long way away and the problem is and I don't know if Sunderland shirts this season are going to show any improvement and I suppose this is a very good chance isn't it for the annual commentators moan about numbers on the back of shirts. So for Champions League matches, for UEFA matches, UEFA insist that if you have a striped shirt and a number on the back, then there has to be a panel there so you can see the numbers. Incredibly, in domestic football, the Premier League, Football League, do not take that on, which I think they should. Yeah, I agree.

13:46Ali Bruce-Ball:Quick as a flash, Nathan, our producer, has actually posted a picture of this season's Sunderland kit with Granit Xhaka's name on the back and the number 34 and no panel. And the black is striding. The number's in black and it does dominate the red and white, but it is still clashing with strides.

14:04Ian Dennis:Manufacturers, what manufacturers should do is, sometimes, like those shirts, you know, when you're looking at them from three feet away, you think, oh yeah, that's clear. What they should do is actually go and sit someone at the back of the stand and see if they can see the numbers.

14:20John Murray:By the way, it's not just the commentators, Grapp, either. It's the spectators. spectators and also i know the scouts as well i speak to a number of scouts they they hate it as well the fact there's no blocks on the back of the shirts because the numbers are everything and also as you say john when you're three yards away it's great very striking and dominant ali have you not been to the stadium of light this new position long long time ago in you climb you climb number of stairs that will that will really give you a chance to well maybe i'm out out of um sort of i'm not very active and whatever else out of shape is that the phrase you're looking for possibly yeah although i have been um i have been working my way back to uh to to fitness in pre-season but you you climb a number of number of flights of stairs alley and then you turn around and then you've got probably about another 30 40 stairs to climb

15:09Ali Bruce-Ball:to get to the back of the stand yeah i do remember that i think yeah yeah anyway it's the new season

15:15Ian Dennis:let's stop complaining about things let's say what we're looking forward to so after all of the various transfers and such like yeah which players would you say that you're you're looking forward

15:26John Murray:to commentating on most the one player i'm really looking forward to seeing in the flesh is max downman of arsenal for the last two years i've heard scouts rave about this teenager and he doesn't turn 16 until december and i haven't heard such a buzz about a teenager

15:43Ian Dennis:since wayne rooney and agree with that and you know i was right hearing regularly about him last season. I suppose the question will be, will he play? And I know he's been playing pre-season for Arsenal.

15:54John Murray:Yeah, I'm really looking forward to seeing him. I just think he could be, well, wonder kid, superstar. And we spoke to Declan Rice, didn't we, John, last March, ahead of an England game. And I mentioned Max Downman to him and Declan Rice was saying that he's taken him under his wing along with Ethan Waniere. And he said he thinks that he was the best 15-year-old in the country, but he said it's fine being the best 15-year-olds in the country, but you've got to make sure that you still apply those levels when you're 16, 17 and 18. So there was a degree of caution there from Declan Rice, but he said he's got a super family and he just thinks he's a real talent.

16:32John Murray:He's unreal in his words.

16:34Ian Dennis:A lot of competition at Arsenal with the various signings that they've made. But as you say, Ian, if he makes an irresistible claim to be in the team, then I suspect he'll get a goal.

16:47Ali Bruce-Ball:Benjamin Sheshko having commentated on him which I'm sure you two probably did at the Euros as well at some point this season he loves a thunderbolt from long range so at some point this coming season if he plays in the Premier League one of us or one of our commentators is going to commentate on something spectacular I've enjoyed watching him in international football so looking forward to comment if he does end up playing in the Premier League

17:13Ian Dennis:When we've seen Right, Ian. Are we going Seshko or are we going Sesko? I think it is technically Seshko. Seshko. Seshko. So much to Seshko. Yes. And when we've seen him, Ian, he's looked quite raw, hasn't he? But there again, you know, players do get to a point, obviously, where they mature. So we'll see if he's going to be ready for the Premier League. I must say, I'm looking forward to seeing how Liam De Lappe does at Chelsea. However, the signing of João Pedro suggests that maybe he might be first choice, who I'm also looking forward to seeing how he does, bearing in mind how he did when he played in the latter stages of the FIFA Club World Cup when he was making his first appearances for Chelsea.

17:59Ian Dennis:But again, I think with Chelsea, there are so many options. And, you know, what his best team is going to be. and when we commentate on Chelsea, it's going to be the same as last season, isn't it? You're virtually going to need two pieces of paper.

18:15John Murray:Who do you think will be the closest challengers to Liverpool?

18:19Ali Bruce-Ball:Sorry, so you're making Liverpool favourites to defend their title or do you mean as champion, they're just defending? Well, both.

18:26John Murray:I think they're favourites to win the title and also I think because as champions, who's going to challenge them?

18:32Ian Dennis:Well, my choice on that would be Manchester City.

18:34Ali Bruce-Ball:Mine would be Arsenal. I think Arsenal have strengthened well.

18:38Ian Dennis:But I think Manchester City have signed well and actually signed well in January as well. So they were already thinking about this season, really, in January. And I just think that, you know, as long as Rodri stays fit again, that surely Phil Foden has to be more like himself this season. And still, you know, look at the numbers that Erlang Harlan came up with last season. I think it was a 35 goal, something like that. You know, if he really gets going again. and of course there is the great thing in their position where you know they for for once they've got something to prove this season and i think they will just expecting them to be very very

19:18Ali Bruce-Ball:very dangerous changing it slightly here's one for you that i thought about this morning just before we came on air the eight second rule for goalkeepers we're gonna have to keep an eye on aren't we this season one of those worry too much about that because it'll never ever

19:33Ian Dennis:it will never be implemented if that gets implemented more than five times this season

19:38Ali Bruce-Ball:i will be amazed but the referees are visibly supposed to give them the last five seconds aren't they as they've got the ball under control you're meant to be seeing this referee going five

19:49Ian Dennis:four three two what will be a feature i think and i think we saw this didn't we when it's been used already in that the crowd begins to count it down oh yeah yeah do you at the start of a season

20:01Ali Bruce-Ball:have sort of new season resolutions anything you think right this season i'm determined to do better better or do something differently or or not the way that you're asking that question suggests that you do i do and my one every year and it lasts about two weeks is i'm always determined to get my prep done for a commentary game the day before the game so i'm not prepping on the day of the game and at the start of the season you can do that hopefully and then within two weeks it just eventually there's just so much going on with the pods and traveling whatever you can never do it you're always chasing your tail but do you not find on the day of the game anyway

20:43John Murray:that you're always sort of like adding to your notes anyway you know you think oh you might drive to the game think damn i forgot to do that i didn't you know didn't do that i don't mind adding

20:53Ali Bruce-Ball:a little one in but i i find if i'm doing too much prep on the day of a game that's quite a lot of work to do before you've then got to sort of almost clear your head relax and be ready to do the game plus you might fit a drive in there as well i find sometimes you just get on a day like that by the time it comes to the commentary you're exhausted and actually don't perform your best

21:12Ian Dennis:i have to say i do as you know i'm very much a last minute merchant and even even though my best intentions will be as you say to try and get things done ahead of time yeah almost every single match which I do, I end up doing lots and lots of work on the day.

21:29Ali Bruce-Ball:Yeah. But actually, I think as we have said on this pod before, sometimes it's, if you can't quite get it all done how you want to, sometimes it's actually better to be fresh, take a rest, and then just rely on your wits a little bit and describe what you see in front of you, you know, don't you think? Particularly for radio, I think.

21:45Ian Dennis:I do. And the other thing as well is replenishing the stationary. That's a key part. That is a key part of the build-up to the sea. I think people would be staggered at how much stationery goes into what we do.

22:00Ali Bruce-Ball:Go on then. So what's in your pencil case, John?

22:04Ian Dennis:Paper. Lots of paper. Different sorts of paper that I need for my record. Because Ian's got his red book. Whereas I need specific loose leaf paper in order to do my records. My Tipex pen or corrector pen, as I should probably call it. I need those. I need the right sort of blue Bic pens for the start of the season. So it's a crucial part of what we do, isn't it?

22:31Ali Bruce-Ball:Highlighters? Are you a highlighter man? I'm not a highlighter man, no. Are you? Yes. Yeah, I'm a highlighter man.

22:37Ian Dennis:I tell you, this is the sort of content that people tune in to the commentator's view for, isn't it?

22:43John Murray:Yeah. When you mentioned the Red Book, and it did make an appearance actually in Sheffield, didn't it? It did, a special appearance.

22:51Ian Dennis:provided great comedic value actually at the time your your red book and my bag yeah got a lot of

22:58John Murray:attention but i've started book 28 for the red book for the season 25 26 only 28 yeah you look much older than that remember i was 44 in 2019 but a little bit like when you're back at school when you start off that first page of you know you know when you that first day of term and you get Your little different coloured books. Maybe it was blue for maths and green for science and red for English or whatever it was. I don't know what it was for Latin. Can't remember. You're older than me, remember? Anyway, you'd start off really, wouldn't you, with sort of like crisp, neat handwriting. Very, very deliberate.

23:38John Murray:And then by page three or four, five, six, you'd gone back to your scroll. So I've started off with really good intentions. No mistakes. Faultless. but I know I'm going to dread writing out every single player at the start of the season so by match week five match week six the squads are bedded in it's just a question of putting the asterisks next to the players but that first Monday after the opening weekend I dread that because I've got to write down every single player who's played and even then for match day two and match day three you're then still adding players until the squads are bedded in that is quite a

24:17Ian Dennis:laborious process yep i would uh endorse that in actual fact i'm the first midweek after the premier league i'm actually taking a few days off which means that i will actually have time to do that um and in terms of the first commentaries that you do of a season do you do you find that they are more challenging because there's you know there's more of a there are more questions really aren't there in terms of certainly the lineup for a start not only that

24:49John Murray:i actually find it i feel a little bit rusty as well i don't know about you two that i mean i've not i've not broadcast for the best part of six weeks um and quite like it as is the case this

24:59Ian Dennis:season when i will commentate on the community shield because it does get you going again yeah

25:05John Murray:But I mean, the three o 'clocks will be slightly easier in the sense that for the football league, particularly League One and League Two, they're already two weeks in. But I do feel that I find it a bit of a struggle to get going just to get into a bit of a rhythm.

25:19Ali Bruce-Ball:Yeah, it's the rhythm. It's the rhythm of doing it again, isn't it? It's a bit like, John, when we do the golf and we go out that first morning at the Open and you've not commentated on golf since the Masters, which is different anyway because you're not walking with a group at the Masters. as you're in a stationary commentary position, it just takes you a couple of hours to get into the rhythm of the tournament and how you describe golf and when you hand it to your summariser and when you get it back. And I think it's the same with the football as well. And actually, just to lift the lid a little bit on, you know, and I know our listeners will know, you know, Saturday afternoons in particular are far from thrown together.

25:53Ali Bruce-Ball:But, John, you and I were both included on a group email, weren't we, from Claire, producer on Saturday, about a sort of pre-season chat that everyone will sit in on, just sort of reminding everyone of the disciplines of reporting in particular, not so much commentary, but the reporting. So the reports that go into your commentary, Ian, where it is so crucial, you know, that you are tight and you are bright and you start on the score and you finish on the score and, you know, and all that sort of thing. But there's a meeting ahead of every season just to discuss that and remind people of that so that you do hit the ground running.

26:30John Murray:It's where Claire lays down the law because I get the, and this is a deliberate word, the incessant talkback on a Saturday afternoon from Claire. But she has to lay down the law that those reporters are looking at possibly no more than 15 seconds for a little insert into the commentary. and whilst they're doing their report I'm getting the talk back from Claire so I very rarely hear what's being said anyway

26:57Ali Bruce-Ball:and last little new season resolution and it actually relates to that from me and I think about this quite a lot but I've just thought about the start of this season and in particular in listening to the live show they played your clip, your goal clip the Declan Rice 2-3 kicks against Real Madrid economy of language when a goal is scored you know so i find i'm quite often guilty if you want to encapsulate everything you want to encapsulate the goal you want to encapsulate the celebration you want to encapsulate the context and actually sometimes i just think short sharp punchy like that goal clip it like like john actually said in the show just did everything you needed it to do so economy of language

27:37Ian Dennis:in goal commentary is another little resolution for me talking of which as you say big thanks to everyone who came to our live show in Sheffield, start of the world tour, or possibly the end of the world tour, as I mentioned during that programme. The edited version is out now as a Football Daily podcast. So if you look for the commentators' view live show on BBC Sounds Research Football Daily, you will find that. And Andy Jones has got in touch, Ian, and he says, love the podcast and have never missed an episode in your live episode we got to hear ian's rice baby which ian said he wasn't sure where it came from it just popped into his head whilst i admire the delivery and spontaneity i have to say that perhaps the phrase may have come from a 2022 muller rice advert featuring declan rice and that very strap line as someone who worked in the business for many years maybe this is evidence of the lasting and subliminal power of advertising and he's actually sent a photograph of the Muller Rice Declan Rice Rice Rice Baby advert and he says all the best and keep up the great work so thank you very much to Andy Jones for that and just to underline tcv at bbc.co.uk for your emails

29:07John Murray:The only thing I would say that Andy and I don't wish to to Muller, your suggestion. But until you'd sent that in, I actually wasn't aware of such an advert existing.

29:19Ian Dennis:Your influence was very much vanilla ice.

29:25John Murray:Actually, since we had the conversation in Sheffield, my son used to walk around the house going, rice, rice, baby, England's future captain. Did he? And I wonder if that was possibly sort of like...

29:40Ian Dennis:Very much where the influencers come from.

29:42Ali Bruce-Ball:But wherever it's initially come from, wherever it's lodged or whatever, still, you know, you can only use it once. You can only use that once. And obviously, Declan Rice scoring two free kicks against Real Madrid is the time to use it. But to remember to use it, or the fact it just came from that part of your brain when you needed it, that's the genius. We are back with the Fantasy 606 Podcast. Whoa, whoa, Chris, I've got to stop you there. We have changed our name this season to the FPL podcast from BBC Sports. All you need to do is search for FPL, and if you already subscribe to our podcast, you don't need to do anything at all.

30:21Ali Bruce-Ball:Chris, have a guess what the code to join the BBC Sport League is. Is it 5E? It's BBC FPL. Oh, yeah. Come and play the game with us as we continue to teach Chris about Fantasy Premier League. The FPL Podcast from BBC Sports. Listen on BBC Sounds. The Commentator's View with Alistair Bruce Ball, John Murray and Ian Dennis on the Football Daily.

30:52Ian Dennis:So it is time for the first Clash of the Commentators of the new season.

31:00John Murray:You're right, John. Clash of the Commentators and the league returns. A reminder, this is how it finished last season. Ali, very impressive. Deserved champion. 11 wins from 14. I was second. Seven from 14. And languishing, rooted at the bottom, was John. Three from 14. Ten defeats in a row. Had the odd exhibition win,

31:31Ian Dennis:but when it really mattered. The bread and butter. I absolutely gave a couple away to you as well.

31:36John Murray:Well, listen.

31:38Ian Dennis:Could easily have had five. You would have had five.

31:41John Murray:Well, yeah, but you didn't.

31:42Ian Dennis:I didn't. No, that's the point. That is the point. But Ali's very much the Liverpool, isn't he? He is the defending champion with lots of pressure on him.

31:51John Murray:All I will say is that if you thought the one in the live event in Sheffield, the first leg of the World Tour, let's not forget, if you thought that was skewed towards me I've got to say when I saw this I was thinking I wish that I was taking part in this rather than being the quiz master but anyway enough of that who wants to go first

32:15Ali Bruce-Ball:John you choose which way do you want to play it

32:17Ian Dennis:I will go first

32:22John Murray:I'm plugging Ali has unplugged so Saturday BBC Radio 5 Live and BBC Sounds, the three o 'clock commentary of the new Premier League season, Sunderland versus West Ham United. Sunderland back in the Premier League for the first time since 2017. That season, they finished 20th. With that in mind, John, I want you to name any of the last 20 Sunderland managers. And your time starts now.

32:55Ian Dennis:Regis Labrice, Howard Wilkinson, Steve Cottrell, Steve Bruce, David Moyes, Central Marriages, Central Marriages, Tony Mowbray,

33:25John Murray:I've got to say, we're going to have to check your suggestion of Steve Cottrell. He's not on my list.

33:32Ian Dennis:I think it's going to be an opening defeat, you know. I think so, too.

33:36John Murray:Oh, dear. Anyway, we all say nothing because he's about to... Good question, that, though. It was a good question. Good question. Right. Hello. Okay. So, the three o 'clock commentary, Ali, is at the Stadium of Light on Five Live, Sunderland against West Ham. Sunderland back in the top flight for the first time since 2017. when they finished 20th. With that in mind, you've got to name any of the last 20 Sunderland managers and your time starts now. Sunderland managers?

34:08Ali Bruce-Ball:Peter Reid, Paolo Di Canio, Sam Allardyce, Niall Quinn, Roy Keane, Ricky Spredger, Mick McCarthy. Who else has been at Sunderland? Sunderland, think about Sunderland managers. Steve Bruce. Did it for a while. I'm not going to get any more than that.

34:35John Murray:Well, without even naming the current manager, Regis Labrice, who has signed a new contract on Wearside. Ali, the defending champion. I mean, I'll wait for confirmation, but I think I already know the results.

34:51Ian Dennis:I wasn't sure if some of Ali's were in the last 20. No. That was my fault.

34:57John Murray:Yeah. Peter Reid, not. No. But Mick McCarthy does scrape his way in. And Ricky Sprague also. And the defending champion is off to a flyer. And once again, the football correspondent is left floundering. 7-4 was the result. So Steve Cottrell wasn't included? Nope. Very quickly, Regis Labrise, Michael Beal, Tony Mowbray, Alex Neal, Lee Johnson, Phil Parkinson, Jack Ross, Chris Coleman, Simon Grayson, David Moyes, Sam Allardyce, Dick Advocat, Gus Poirier, Paolo Di Canio, Martin O 'Neill, Steve Bruce, Ricky Spragio, Roy Keane, Niall Quinn and Mick McCarthy.

35:35Ali Bruce-Ball:Mine came in early, didn't they? I got lucky there. Three or four of mine are right at the start of that run.

35:41Ian Dennis:So even if I got Steve Cottrell, that wouldn't have made a difference.

35:45John Murray:Still a defeat. That is 11 defeats now. Competitive defeats. competitive Martin O 'Neill

35:52Ali Bruce-Ball:it's a good one actually enjoyed that

35:53Ian Dennis:it's a good question always good

35:55Ali Bruce-Ball:the Clash of the Commentator categories generally good

36:00Ian Dennis:so that was Clash of the Commentators the first one for the new season and Ali getting off to a flying start already top of the table and me and Ian joint bottom it is hold on we've both got zero points I'm not how can I

36:18John Murray:yeah but I haven't played a game yet

36:19Ian Dennis:your bottom well we've both got zero points um now it is time for the great glossary of football commentary as we add listener suggestions of football specific commentary terms and phrases to add to our collection i do think that we need to be a little bit more relaxed about it this time i think we've stopped admitting to you know we've blocked too many and and from our live show we added a team that likes to play football got the yes. That was Ali's suggestion. That was your suggestion.

36:53Ali Bruce-Ball:That was mine. It was, yeah, it was your suggestion.

36:56Ian Dennis:Peter's suggestion, two good feet was given a yes and Tim's route one was given a yes but Sean's cute pass was rejected and Phil's two left feet was also rejected. Do you agree with all those, Ali?

37:14Ali Bruce-Ball:Pretty much. I think, as you pointed out in the show, the two good feet, yes, and the two left feet, no. Do you know what I think is to give ourselves a little bit more leeway? Because quite often with these discussions, we're getting to points where we go, yeah, but they use it in another sport. I think if it originated in football, we should allow it. So if we think it initially came from football and then it's been taken to other sports, I think that should get into the glossary. I'm not saying two left feet is necessarily one of those, but that's my feeling on just to give us a little bit more wriggle room, possibly.

37:48Ian Dennis:Andy, and from our Open Golf special episode, we added Goalkeepers Union from Tottenham fan Ben from Burgess Hill. Are you happy with that one, Goalkeepers Union?

37:57John Murray:Yes, I listened back to that, and yeah, very, very happy. Have you listened back to the live episode yet, Jim?

38:03Ian Dennis:I've not, no, but I must, if there is one I listen back to, it should be that one.

38:08Ali Bruce-Ball:Yeah, new season resolutions. Listen back to the pod. There you go.

38:12Ian Dennis:Here's one.

38:13John Murray:Have you listened back to any, John?

38:16Ian Dennis:I might have listened back to a small part of one of them. I know what's in it. How are you going to improve, John, if you don't listen? Well, I've got matches to prepare for. Anyway, for the Great Glossary, your suggestions are all important. So voice notes are great on this and they do sound very good on the podcast, I would say. So 08000 289 369 for the voice notes. So 08000 289 369, obviously emails to tcv at bbc.co.uk. And one of those came from Rich from Connecticut, who says, off the back of you talking about sweeper keepers last season, What about go, stroke, going, stroke, gone, walkabout?

39:08Ian Dennis:I just checked your list and I don't see it there. A bit astonishing, that. But where else is it commonly used? Gone, walkabout. He's gone, walkabout.

39:19John Murray:I know I'm going to just do what you just said, Ali, but that is used in cricket, isn't it? If you stray from your stumps, he's gone, walkabout.

39:26Ali Bruce-Ball:Yeah. I like it. I do like it as a turn of phrase. I like it. You know, when a goalkeeper like the famous Manuel Neuer on the halfway line in the World Cup against South Korea, that was a proper gone walkabout. That's the perfect phrase to use then. But I don't think it can go in. I think I'm almost arguing against what I just said because I'm not sure that did originate in football, even though it's perfect for instances like that. I think that's too generic. Yeah, I think it's too generic.

39:52Ian Dennis:I would have accepted that.

39:53Ali Bruce-Ball:Would you?

39:54Ian Dennis:Yeah.

39:55Ali Bruce-Ball:I mean, a fullback in rugby could go walkabout. As in, you know, the ball's punted downfield, and suddenly you think, well, hang on, where's the full-back gone? And he's, you know, somewhere else on the pitch.

40:04Ian Dennis:Anyway, listeners can suggest on that and play their part.

40:08John Murray:What about this one? Simon from Horsforth, which is near Leeds. James Milner country. That's Horsforth, not Leeds. He went to school there, didn't he?

40:17Ian Dennis:You often hear people who are not from that area pronounce it as Horsforth, don't you?

40:22Ali Bruce-Ball:Yeah, you could have actually, you could have led me up the garden party. If you'd asked me to read that, I think that's how I might have said it. I'm quite grateful that I wasn't asked to read that.

40:31Ian Dennis:There's another couple of those as well, which from Northumberland, Prudhoe is one that people always struggle with.

40:41Ali Bruce-Ball:Well, people say Prudhoe, do they?

40:42Ian Dennis:Prudhoe. Stamfordham's another one. And Pontieland, of course. Pontieland's somewhere that is quite often mispronounced. Yeah.

40:52John Murray:If you were to then come down the northeast coast to mask. Yes. A lot of people say mask by the sea. They do. But it's mask.

41:01Ian Dennis:Anyway, we're straying in the glossary there. We've got a walkabout. We have.

41:09John Murray:Anyway, back to Simon's point from Horsforth. Potential entry for the glossary, although not sure which of the two below are correct. either left nothing out there on the pitch or left everything out there on the pitch. I'm sure different commentators use different versions. Logically, you could probably argue either makes sense. Which do you think is correct? And do you think it warrants an entry into the glossary? I would say yes.

41:37Ian Dennis:And I think that's quite often a summariser's phrase, isn't it? They've left everything out there. Yeah, that's the correct one.

41:45Ali Bruce-Ball:Yeah. they've left everything out there means there's nothing left they've emptied the tank that's another one they've emptied the tank they've left everything out there to leave nothing out there doesn't quite make sense does it? you've got to leave everything out there don't leave nothing out there leave everything out there

42:01John Murray:but that would apply to American football rugby league rugby union

42:06Ali Bruce-Ball:yeah that's the thing and did it start in football that's my question are you saying no to that one as well Ali?

42:14John Murray:I'd say yeah

42:14Ian Dennis:I'd say yes to that.

42:16John Murray:You're saying yes. You see, John's very lenient, very relaxed ahead of this new season, whereas you're quite firm and stringent. I'm trying to be more lenient.

42:25Ali Bruce-Ball:Yeah, but I'm a bit of a pedant.

42:27John Murray:I've got to say I agree with you, I wouldn't have that either. Okay.

42:30Ian Dennis:Well, that's a split decision again, another split decision. And Ali, have you got the other one?

42:38Ali Bruce-Ball:Kyle of Bedford, Massachusetts. So we've had Connecticut and Massachusetts. Massachusetts, yeah. Hello, TCV crew, long-time listener, first-time writer, top, top, top quality content. Really enjoy the show, much to my astonishment. I'd like to expand on the glossary and include a section of forbidden phrases and words. There are an increasing number of baseball phrases creeping into the commentaries and punditry. It's insidious and must be stamped out. In particular, one pundit is always out in left field, and he must step up to the plate and take responsibility. I enjoy my favourite programming, such as the Monday Night Club, not nearly as good as this, in brackets, 606, and the newly rebranded FPL show.

43:25Ali Bruce-Ball:That's right, the FPL podcast from BBC Sport.

43:28Ian Dennis:The news has already reached Massachusetts.

43:31Ali Bruce-Ball:Great news. But please help. I hate to hear these phrases. So, left field and stepping up to the plate. I mean, we're talking about glossary here. So, do they belong in the glossary? And what do you think about Kyle's point in not enjoying these being used in football commentaries?

43:48John Murray:Well, he's not saying left field, is he? He's saying out in left field.

43:53Ali Bruce-Ball:Out in left field. Yeah, you're right. Sorry, Ian. Out in left field, yeah. We wouldn't use that.

43:57Ian Dennis:Even so, a bit left field is a phrase that would be used. That doesn't go in the glossary, does it?

44:04Ali Bruce-Ball:No.

44:04Ian Dennis:Well, you can imagine my opinion on this. I'll tell you what, though. I don't mind other people using them, but I certainly wouldn't be using them. And a different ball game or out of the ball park or another couple of...

44:19Ali Bruce-Ball:Well, John, you've just wrecked my gag. I was just going to say Carl, with his email, has knocked it out of the park. He's knocked it out of the park, yeah. He's done it. Sorry. He's done it. Sorry. Killed it.

44:27Ian Dennis:So I'm giving a no to that.

44:29John Murray:So you would not say, John, he's got to step up to the plate?

44:33Ian Dennis:No, I don't think I would. Now you're going to produce several examples of me having said that.

44:40Ali Bruce-Ball:No worries, you've said it. Yeah. But that's amazing because we've said no to everything there. So at the start of that, I argue... No, I've said yes to the first two. Well, you have, but Denno and I have not. And if you're going to go democracy, you can't go in. That's right.

44:53Ian Dennis:Well, they are neither confirmed nor otherwise until we take the temperature of the listeners on 08000 to 289369 on a voice note or emails to tcv at bbc.co.uk. And we want your other suggestions as well. It is entirely possible, of course, for this being a new season that people might have stumbled across this for the very first time, in which case you're very welcome. But we've already got an absolute stack of phrases which include things like after you, Claude, which I'm so pleased is included in it. And I mean, whether that was necessarily a football phrase or not. And the very favourite, the small matter of, of course, which we use on a regular basis.

45:44Ian Dennis:If they were listening for the first time,

45:46John Murray:that chat about the stationery might be their last time that they listen.

45:52Ian Dennis:So there we are. all very excited to be back for the new season.

45:57Ali Bruce-Ball:Yeah, absolutely.

45:58Ian Dennis:Let's have a bit of enthusiasm. No, no, no.

46:00Ali Bruce-Ball:Well, I mean, I'm going to be listening over the first weekend. I'm not working. I'm going to have my feet up and be listening. So I'm really looking forward to it and looking forward to getting stuck in when the time comes.

46:10Ian Dennis:Yeah, but as we always say, don't we? The best thing to do, and it will improve your life, is to listen to live sport, live football. I've listened to so much this summer, honestly, on my holidays, whether it was the Euros, whether it was Wimbledon, Test Mike Special, which has been exceptional this summer with that brilliant Test series against India. And, you know, it's a live sport on the radio. It's a brilliant companion. I always say this.

46:38Ali Bruce-Ball:And while Ali's away, we will step up to the plate, John. And producer Nathan has just made a very good point. First episode of the new season done. Have we left nothing out there? Or have we left everything out there?

46:51Ian Dennis:Well, it's a bit early to be leaving everything out there.

46:55Ali Bruce-Ball:That's true.

46:56Ian Dennis:A bit early in the season. Anyway, there we are. Enjoy your holiday, Ali. Thank you. So once you're back, although I suspect you're probably doing the other podcast, the FPL podcast, while you're on holiday, are you?

47:08Ali Bruce-Ball:We are recording. So that will be out every Wednesday on BBC Sounds this season. Ian is re-enrolled, has a bit of beef this season. Ian got relegated into head-to-head Division 2 last season. Did he? And that was all fair and square, but Ian's beef is that Chris Sutton has immunity from relegation from the top flight.

47:27John Murray:Oh, really? Yeah. It's a sham. It's a sham. How you can have a league and one of your players doesn't get relegated, you might as well introduce franchises, Ali. It's a sham. People get very angry about it, John. It is. It was voted in by the board. I don't know how Chris looks at himself in the mirror, by the way. you know he should have been relegated if you had

47:49Ian Dennis:if you had franchises rich people from other countries could come in and buy Ali they could buy you for millions yeah maybe couldn't they

48:00Ali Bruce-Ball:so if you were a franchise Ali what would your name be that's one for the listeners that is one for the listeners for next week but every Wednesday I know we're not talking about this podcast it's the other one but every Wednesday for your fantasy football fix on BBC Sounds

48:15Ian Dennis:Would it be an animal?

48:17Ali Bruce-Ball:Yeah. Bruce Bull Bulls.

48:21John Murray:Bruce Bull Bulls. Careful.

48:25Ian Dennis:Anyway, that is very much fun for the listeners. And that is it for this episode of the Football Daily. The next one, listen to this, will be Wayne Rooney, the big interview. As for the commentator's view, you can find each and every episode right from the start of the first series on your Football Daily Feed.

48:47Ali Bruce-Ball:This is remarkable. So I've got, I played my first ever game of poker last night. At the age of 52, I've never played poker before. Played my first ever game of poker last night.

48:56Ian Dennis:Have you played? I have. I've played online. Of course you have. Gordon Brown will be after you. Did you win, Ali? I played it with my brother, but I can't remember how to play. So that was like when I was at school.

49:09Ali Bruce-Ball:I mean, remarkably, Denno, So we played two, what would you call them, not hands because there's more than that, two games, playing with obviously more experienced players than me, and they were kind and sort of helped me along. And I think mainly by luck, I won the first one, but got very lucky in the sort of the key hand. I got dealt two aces. So it was, you know, that was fine. I then actually felt I played better in the second game and lost. I got quite unlucky, I thought, in the second game. But I'm not great. I don't think a great skill of mine is reading people. I'm not great at that so difficult game but I enjoyed it it came out up I'll probably retire now I think