The Commentators' View: Let’s go racing, John Hunt…

14:54Ian Dennis:Well, not only that, it's a Madrid double that I'm going to be at. So I'm going to be reporting at Atletico Madrid Tottenham on Tuesday night and then commentating on Real Madrid Manchester City on Wednesday night when Paul Robinson's going to be with me. And you've done a double like that as well, haven't you, in the not too distant past?

15:17John Murray:Was it about four years ago that Manchester City played Atletico? So I did the commentary of that. And then the next night I did commentary of Real Madrid-Chelsea. Yeah. And I know it's our job, but that is a real treat, isn't it?

15:33Ian Dennis:The prospect of going to Atletico Madrid one night and then the other side of Madrid the next night. I mean, they are such a contrast, aren't they, those two clubs?

15:41John Murray:I've got to say, I do like going to Real Madrid. I think they look after us. I'm sure you'll be in Cabina Ocho, which is our favourite cabin that Real Madrid always seem to put us in.

15:54Ian Dennis:Well, when I'm in Cabina Ocho, I might be singing Una Paloma Blanca. Did you hear that last week? Well, we've already mentioned the naughty Mark Chapman, haven't we? And we did. John, I don't know whether you're aware of this, but a listener got in touch to suggest that the name of the West Ham manager could be sung along to the tune of Una Paloma Blanca. And on the Monday nightclub on Five Live this week, Herr Chapman was in mischievous mood.

16:27Mark Chapman:You just call him Nuno. There are other members of the Five Live team who put a lot more effort into talking about Nuno.

16:40Ian Dennis:Nuno Espirito Santo

16:45John Hunt:Managing down at West Ham

16:49Ian Dennis:Luno Espirito Santo

16:54John Hunt:Relegates versus the flag So no one can take our Jared away

17:01Mark Chapman:Now that is in the interest of cross-promotion, right? Because we wouldn't do anything that frivolous on this because we're serious football chat. That is the BBC's football correspondent, John Murray, singing Nuno Espirito Santo to the tune of Pablo Blanco, I think. It was before my time. What? No, yes, it was also covered by the Wurzels with I Am A Cider Drinker. Fine, fine, yeah. But it was from the 70s, so before any of our time. And I can say that that is, in the interest of cross-promotion, from the Commentator's View podcast. That's a reason not to listen to it. Which you refer to as? I refer to it as Last of the Summer Wine Podcast, but I've been told off of that, and literally in my notes it says, could you please call it the Commentator's View?

17:57Mark Chapman:So the Commentator's View with Compo, Foggy and Cleggie on BBC Sounds.

18:03Ian Dennis:So there we are. That was from Monday Night Club. That also was West Ham fan Ross, who was singing on there as well. And all I would say is that even at this advanced stage of my career, you do live and learn, don't you? With our production staff, sometimes, you know, when you've got friends like that, who needs enemies?

18:27John Murray:Well, Al Bashir in Toronto has said, Curses. Can't get this tune out of my head. Nuno Espirito Santo managing down at West Ham.

18:37Ian Dennis:Thanks also to Bristol City fans, Sam and Dan, who've both got in touch along similar lines. Sam says, Re, last week's mention of Una Paloma Blanca, the Wurzels' I am a cider drinker, is indeed sung by Bristol City fans, often during a lull in the game to raise spirits when we are several goals down. Drink up the cider is also played when we win, while Blackbird typically booms out following a draw or dispiriting loss. Then, of course, says Sam, there is the band's ode to Bristol's finest footballing side titled One for the Bristol City. It all makes for a stellar compilation album, which no doubt ABB owns a copy of, having worked in the area, which of course he did.

19:23Ian Dennis:Sam says, keep up the great work. I'd say I'd happily be TCV's Bristol City correspondent. But no doubt Jonathan Pierce already has that vacancy filled. so that is from Sam

19:35John Murray:and from Dan we're waiting on confirmation for the annual Wurzels concert after our last home game of the season where all the hits are sung and it's a great way to bring the curtain down on another 12th place finish

19:48Ian Dennis:and actually I had a message from John Rohder the TV commentator Match of the Day commentator who said John says he occasionally works as public address announcer at Somerset County Cricket Club and he said John I can confirm that when Somerset win an exciting limited ovos match at the Cooper Associates County Ground in Taunton, the DJ on duty for these games, which is usually his pal Ginge, he says he actually doesn't know what his real name is. He says he plays the Wurzels and many spectators join in to make it a communal sing song of celebration. And we've also had this from Fulham supporter Tom.

20:27Mark Chapman:I was intrigued last week to hear of John's fondness for palm trees. A year or so ago when travelling to the USA for work and with a need to get my football fix while I was away, I went to see LA Galaxy versus St Louis City in the MLS. The match itself, as often seems to be the case with that league, was not particularly memorable, but having escaped wet and grey London, the clear blue skies and sunshine were. And of the 288 grounds I've been to to watch football, including a handful in the Middle least this is the first one i recall with palm trees designed into the stadium behind the goal

21:07Ian Dennis:at one end and he sent us a photograph hasn't he or or we have got a photograph of um the said ground with the palm trees there it's gorgeous it reminds me of wrexham

21:23John Murray:yeah the commentary position in la will still be cramped though

21:29Ian Dennis:we also love hearing about your listening experiences and chris in evesham in worcestershire says hi tcv team thoroughly enjoy the podcast brackets usually while walking my springer spaniel on a Saturday morning. Brackets. I've had a strong affection for radio commentary since premium TV subscriptions started coming into football and were unaffordable for my family at the time. I used to listen to evening matches on my Walkman in bed with it precariously propped near the window, tuned to medium wave to get a better signal. I really should have been asleep when I had school the next day.

22:09John Murray:Well, I remember I once took a portable radio into, it was when the FA Cup draw was on a Monday afternoon. and it had like the little earpiece and I pretended to put my left hand, so I was resting my head to my left. So I'm just sort of like resting on the desk, but really I was listening to the FA Cup draw and I got caught by the teacher. I clearly hadn't done it as well as I thought I had done and I got into trouble for that. But I used to often listen to a portable radio.

22:38John Hunt:So many great radio memories and some sad ones as well. One of my earliest radio memories was, I just can't help but think about, Dad and I went to Sheffield Wednesday, West Ham at Hillsborough, and it was the same day as the Bradford Fire. And Mum and Dad lived in Lincoln. Lincoln were playing Bradford that day, of course. And, yeah, our drive back from Sheffield to Lincoln, knowing that was happening, you know, and just being saddened but captivated by events unfolding on the radio, light was just such a it's so clearly etched in my memory you know so um yeah the source of so much happiness but um radio communication so so powerful yeah it is it can hit hit all of the

23:27Ian Dennis:various heights and depths of emotion can't it when you are relying on the human voice which is what i often said didn't i ian during covid just that whole thing about when so many people were spending so much time by themselves, just that connection with a human voice via the radio, I thought was incredibly powerful and a real reminder of just what the radio can bring you. Let's have a listen as well to Michael in San Diego, who sent us this.

23:55Mark Chapman:Great conversation last week about the perfect line from Baku. It was John's commentary. It It reminded me of my favourite memory of listening to a football game. It was the 15th of October 1996. And I think I'm right in saying I once heard that, Ian, this was your first European commentary game. It was Ferenc-Varoch against Newcastle. And myself and my friend Tony were walking, hiking in the Lake District. We were trying to make it to Keswick. It was lashing down with rain. We were somewhere alongside the Dermot water. and we realised we weren't going to make it to Keswick. So we just pitched the tent, got dry as much as possible, got the pot noodle on, had a cup of tea and listened to this magically crackly commentary coming from Hungary, lashing down the rain and it was just pure magic.

24:50John Murray:That's brilliant. I remember the stadium. It was the Ololoye Stadium in Budapest and I don't think it was the radio that was crackling. I just think it was the atmosphere. To say they were passionate would be an understatement, the Ferencvaros supporters.

25:06Ian Dennis:I also have done a commentary, a European commentary. I think it was that stadium. Certainly it was Ferencvaros. Can you remember, would you like both of you to have a stab at who Ferencvaros is? So it's British opposition. Who were Ferencvaros's opponents from the UK? I will go Middlesbrough. Nope.

25:28John Hunt:Dundee United.

25:29Ian Dennis:The answer is Millwall. In the UEFA Cup, Millwall. That was an experience, I'll tell you. I bet you it was. Yeah. You've told me that before. I should have got that.

25:43John Murray:You should have got it. Yeah, Steve Claridge was the summariser with this. Just going to rattle through Sam in Kingsland because then that brings us to the section that I've been so eagerly awaiting, that Sam says, love the pod, listen to the radio, and having five live on during the weekend was a real statement of my childhood, even in my 30s. There's not many better things than switching the radio on over the weekend and listening to whatever the 3pm game is or sports report at 5pm and hearing the round-up of the day's action. Special mention has to go to John Hunt, whose commentary is always of the highest quality.

26:19John Murray:He genuinely makes me feel like I'm watching whatever race he's commentating on. Simply superb. Sam, I wholeheartedly agree with you.

26:27Ian Dennis:So, Sam, John, this will be a special edition of the commentator's view for him, because we are now going to concentrate on your speciality of commentating on horse racing. And first of all, just to tee this up, let's cast our minds back to last year's Cheltenham Gull Cup and the commentary that came with it on Five Live.

26:48Mark Chapman:The second last fence coming up.

26:50John Hunt:Gallop and Dechamp at it. He's only got a narrow lead here from I know the way you're thinking. Corbett's cross fell there at the second last and now it's I know the way you're thinking a massive danger I know the way you're thinking takes over at the last Gallop under shop has got no response

27:07Mark Chapman:he's now looking firmly beaten and we have now got a new name on the gold cup roll of honour and it is I know the way you're thinking who has won the gold cup in great style really Mark Walsh punches the air.

27:23John Hunt:What a week he's had. He's brushed aside Gallop and Le Champ to win the Gold Cup by five or six lengths.

27:29Ian Dennis:And that was John Hunt in great style yourself, John, last year. And Gareth in Shrewsbury says, Hello, chaps. I have to say that I have often tuned in to hear John Hunt cover a big horse race. And I don't follow that sport at all. But he is amazing at commentary. And Gareth says, John, how does he do it? So here's your opportunity to answer that very open question.

27:56John Hunt:Well, I think it stems from a love of the sport in the same way as you guys absolutely live, eat and drink football. We do the same. There's 18 commentators up and down the country on horse racing. I don't know. It's just moving parts, isn't it? I think the mechanics of our sports are very similar, really, in terms of, you know, there's always an end game. in my sport horse racing the finish line is where it really counts your sport when the net bulges you know that's the big moment of any particular game isn't it so i don't know you always build to that particular moment you you understand there are periods within that that where there's not an awful lot happening but there's still there's still especially on radio as well you know there's still the opportunity to be as descriptive as possible and as i've watched horse racing all my life I've always tried to almost look at myself as a an additional jockey trying to get as close to the action as possible without the inherent dangers I should hasten to add but um yeah and if we can take the the listener to that intimate type of experience as well then all the better that's all any of us are ever aiming for isn't it to just bring an authentic description of what is actually happening in front of you you know and that doesn't matter whether it's a little maiden hurdle that I'll be doing later on Exeter today or a German Gold Cup the same rules apply.

29:24John Hunt:Can you remember your first commentary John? My first ever commentary yet was in the spring of 1992 and it was at Salisbury Racecourse I remember a lot about that particular day but I remember Willie Carson had three winners one of them was on a horse called In the Picture because I did a tremendously impressive pun, which I was told never to repeat again. So that fell flat on its face. But, yeah, there was a lovely horse that day called Venture Capitalist who won as well. He used to be trained by Richard Hannan. It's strange what you remember, isn't it, from these little snapshots years and years and years ago.

30:01John Hunt:So, yeah, 1992, I think it was the 5th of May at Salisbury Racecourse, Willie Carson.

30:09John Murray:You know the follow-up question, though, now, don't you? What was the pun?

30:12John Hunt:Oh, it was just such a lame one about, you know, the photo finish not required for in the picture or something like that. But yeah, I told you I shouldn't have bothered.

30:25Ian Dennis:When we've talked about you, John, when you haven't been here, and we've talked about the skills of doing other commentaries, I've said a couple of times, what I admire about the horse racing commentator is that ability to clear your mind. You know, the fact that you'll have five or six commentary races, maybe more in the space of an afternoon. And just that discipline of the names, the numbers, everything, the stories about the horses to be able to go. That's done. On to the next one. Did that come naturally to you? And is it as difficult as I'm thinking it is?

31:08John Hunt:Not as difficult as you think. You know, I often think that lots of commentators can do lots of different roles. I firmly believe that. And I think race commentary is, I think it's earned, deservedly or not, I think it's earned a little bit of a mystique over the years, but it's not that challenging. I'll give you a good example I did a football game years ago for Five Live and it was Derby County, Millwall and all the Millwall back four were identical I swear they all had the same haircuts, they all had the same boots and I spent the best part of that 90 minutes trying to work out which of them was which and I really really struggled with that and therefore I got into a little bit of a hole with just four players on that pitch that day and I couldn't get out of the hole.

31:57John Hunt:So give me a 20-runner novice hurdle in comparison to that, and it was much, much easier. But I find the ability, I think you mentioned the ability to immediately propel what you have just done or what you are doing into the bin straight away. Forget about it straight away. I think that's essential. Otherwise, you'd have all sorts of drag from the previous racing that you've done, and it would perhaps colour your next race. So whether you've done a really good job or just a bang average job, you've just got to leave it behind the second it's done. And I think whether we know it or not, we train our brains to do that.

32:37John Hunt:I think it's the most effective way. And I think it's the way most race commentators operate, to be honest.

32:42John Murray:I think there is a degree of you being typically modest there, John, because I'm thinking we love going to the York Dante meeting, as you know. in well we like going to any meeting in york to be fair but particularly the dante meeting in may and that dash over the say the five furlongs how do you differentiate a horse just to come out of the pack that's got to be surely harder than identifying a millwall back four because you could have 20 runners different colors how how do you train your mind to pick out the different colors because you probably won't see the numbers in the in the blink of an eye would you yeah race

33:20John Hunt:car the their actual saddle cloth number never really comes into it then it's not really visible so it's all about the colors and often sometimes it's about the style of the jockey as well you know you you you develop you get to know a jockey's posture in the saddle in the same way as you'd know the gait of a left winger charging down the wing you know it's um you don't need to know their number or anything like that necessarily but it's i think i think we're lucky in racing and all of us who do it on a sort of 12-month-a-year basis and we're up and down the country seeing these horses on a fairly regular basis so at Cheltenham this week for example there won't be many horses that come as a surprise you know they're all you can look at all of their past performances on video with without any problem at all easy access to that sort of thing so none of it comes as a particular surprise it's just it's just making sure that you're just calling the right horse at the right time and in terms of i don't know really really in about the movement and the turnover of positions within a within a race it's very different that five furlong sprint race at york compared to um a three mile chase at the cheltermer festival where you've got lots and

34:31Ian Dennis:lots of time to work things out as you go are there names that you love commentating on and i was thinking that listening to the commentary from last year it would strike me that i like the way you're thinking is a great name to commentate on because of the rhythm of that phrase to use that

34:50John Hunt:in a race or is that too long yeah sometimes john i mean there are two really good horses one's called brighter days ahead one's called better days ahead and i wish they'd called them something else to be honest or that they weren't running in the same era exactly exactly yeah i mean happily they don't running the same type of races but yeah just the fact that they're both high profile and both on people's minds you know it's just it just injects a degree of discomfort you know whenever they run you're just mindful that whatever you do don't call it the other one i used to think that

35:30Ian Dennis:great horse best mate great great name as well wasn't it for a for a high achieving horse for

35:37John Hunt:a commentator yeah simple names so many some especially the top jump horses these days in so many cases you'll see it every single race at Cheltenham and most of the time it will be the I don't know the top six or seven in the betting there'll be a horse that's name is derived from its spell as a young horse in France you know so you know this horse on Tuesday called Copecte you know it's not it's not exactly best mate is it or golden miller or arkel but it's but it is what it is isn't it so and and sometimes you get a flurry of copec des boards followed by iliad des art and you know it's like they're all words and they all take up your airspace don't they so it's difficult if you're firing off these names not to present too confusing a picture but So you've got to work with what you're working with.

36:31Ian Dennis:Yeah, although you should. Thank you, Lucky Stars. When you're talking about that, it reminds me of show jumping from the 70s and 80s when many of the horses were named after Japanese electrical product. Do you remember that? Like Sanyo Music Centre.

36:45John Hunt:Well, when I started off, there was a Hinari televideo running. So, yeah, it's funny how things evolve over time. But, yeah, there's still plenty of difficult names out there, but people make funny choices when they name their animals.

37:00John Murray:My name's Steve Bradnell, assistant manager at Royal Oak FC.

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37:14John Hunt:This could be a great opportunity for us, lads, a podcast for the BBC. Can I just say, what's a podcast?

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38:43Mark Chapman:The commentator's view on the Football Daily. Listen on BBC Sounds.

38:48John Murray:And when you've finished one race and you've got half an hour to prep for the next, do you immerse yourself in the next race or is already a lot of your work already done and you sort of like nip off to the toilet, get yourself a little bit of refreshments? What take us through the sort of like a quick crash course of your three hours of racing?

39:07John Hunt:Yeah, so what would happen really is I really honestly just only worry about one race at a time because race four at the time race one is taking place, race four doesn't matter at all. You know, I might not even get there. So, you know, after race one is finished at Cheltenham, we're so lucky. So we've got we might talk about commentary positions. We've got the best seat in the house at Cheltenham. It's the fifth floor. It's right on the winning line. But apart from that, A, it's near the toilet. Superb. and B, you have access to the rear of the stand as well. So you can immediately, within 15 seconds of putting your mic down on race one, you can take yourself to the back of the grandstand, which overlooks the pre-parade ring, and you can see the horses already there for race number two.

39:55John Hunt:And it's a calming environment as well. Out the back of the grandstand, there's next to nobody having a look from the fifth floor, but out the front is manic. So I like the, obviously when you're working, the racing is intense, but then there's an immediate opportunity to have a physical and a mental calm down before you go again for race two. Do you use binoculars to commentate? I do, yeah. I like to have them. Again, we get sport, really. We have two different TV feeds at Cheltenham, one with ITV's pictures, one with race tech's pictures, and they're often presented at a different angle. but I have my binoculars set on what I consider to be the most difficult part of the track, the part of the track that is not easy to view.

40:42John Hunt:It's usually at the top of the hill or down near the two-mile start, away to the left. Are they fixed, John? They're fixed. They're great big submarine binoculars on a big stand that just pivot. They're about a foot and a half long. They're amazing. but I've got my own handheld binoculars as well for swiftness of movement where if I see something out of the corner of my eye and I don't know exactly what it was at that moment I can just whisk them so I always have my binoculars in my hand as well so yes quite a lot of gear but when you're in the middle of it you don't really give that sort of any thought really it's just part of the stage where you're performing really and talking about commentary positions as you

41:22Ian Dennis:mentioned there we have had an email from sean in australia who says a couple of interesting commentary positions in horse racing are those at randwick in sydney and flemington in melbourne the angles at both of these are made worse because of the race callers positioning at randwick the caller is 75 meters past the post and at Flemington the caller is 50 meters before the post on a 45 degree angle does that does that put shivers down your spine yeah it's happened to us a few times

41:59John Hunt:when they renovated Longchamp in Paris for the Arc de Triomphe that grandstand rebuild took years you could imagine so they put some temporary commentary boxes out for us great we thought we turn up and yeah they're literally a quarter of a mile before the winning line you know so and the and they're low down the angle's terrible waste waste of time really but but it does make you i'm sure you you get this as football commentators all the time when you land a pristine perfectly positioned commentary point you think oh this is just perfect and for me it's that's about height how much you can actually see with your own eyes i personally hate being behind glass you know just do the windows move out is there is there literally fresh air between yourself and the action that's what that's what i really really like yeah that's a real for us here at wembley

42:54Ian Dennis:it's a good commentary position but it's such a shame isn't it we're not in the open air that we are in a in a box which has its advantages but being behind glass is isn't it's never where i

43:07John Murray:want to be no i agree you want to feel the action and i think that the glass is an obstruction to that do you have a favorite venue john i've got so many i'm going to sand down for five of

43:21John Hunt:live on saturday for the imperial cup that's a great commentary box because it's just about as high as you can be at sand down sand down's grandstand is not high but but it's again it's right on the line you're you're you can touch the heads of the crowd in front of you almost it's a really immersive experience i really like sand down park see we often look up at you from

43:43Ian Dennis:the middle of the race course at york and see where you are there and i mean that looks like

43:47John Hunt:a brilliant position it is it is yeah yeah york's fantastic as well if you want to be really picky though it's it's your commentary box is very narrow so to see certainly to your right looking out on the track not so much to the left but to your right you've sort of got to really lean out of the box window which is no problem but um because it's so tight and narrow you don't have that that sort of uh easy field of vision i'd say but yeah yeah york's another great one high up

44:19John Murray:right on the line superb I missed out on a 100 to 1 winner at last year's festival which I was most annoyed about have you ever had an occasion where you've had a flutter and you've had to call that particular horse home and therefore you've had to sort of like conceal your own personal

44:39John Hunt:excitement um the one that springs to mind was with not so much conceal my own excitement but my own crushing disappointment because, you know, I wouldn't advocate this at all, but I, I, I think the biggest bet I ever had was that not at the Cheltenham festival, but at Cheltenham, they have another lovely meeting in the April and I was commentating and there was no way I could see this horse getting beat. And it, and it did. And I was commentating on that. And I was, I was so, so disappointed, you know? So, and of course it wasn't even tight. The writing was on the wall a long, long way out. So you had to bluff your way to the finish there saying, oh, isn't this great for Paul Nichols?

45:23John Hunt:Another winner for the informed Paul Nichols when I backed the Nicky Henderson thing that's coiling in in fourth place. So, yeah, I can't really remember. Neptune Colonge winning the Grand National was great. I had a little nibble on that. That was a 40-1 winner. But, again, he was involved in a really, really, really tight photo finish. So it was impossible to know whether he had won or lost really that day. But yeah, they're a couple that sprint to mind for good and bad.

45:52Ian Dennis:We often talk about pronunciations of footballers' names on here. How do you get the right pronunciations for the names of the horses?

45:59John Hunt:Well, do you know what? It's so haphazard, John. It drives me mad really. And this comes back to the Olympic Games as well. Because on the formal media pages for the Olympic Games, every athlete clearly when they've supplied their accreditation have been asked to pronounce their name correctly you know and you've got a little icon that's clearly there so you can listen to how they want their names pronounced in horse racing very often their current owners haven't actually named their horses so you ask them and they say i don't know i got it from france or something or i know it's gaelic but but if it is gaelic i'll ask some of my irish friends for the correct pronunciation about it sometimes you just don't know i had one yesterday it was called i'm not going to get this right now but it was one word and it was like g y n e m y n e or something like that and i just thought well guinyami will is going to have to do you know and it and it may have been an acronym for something or it may have been something very very important to somebody in their life but I'm a bit of a curmudgeon I sometimes think if horses are given difficult names then and the owner doesn't like how you pronounce it then don't give it a difficult name in the first place give it a best mate well listen we're really looking forward to

47:22Ian Dennis:listening to you and the team at Cheltenham this coming week on on five lives sports extra BBC sounds whatever platform it is on at the time and just give us an idea John how does the week pan out for you at Cheltenham which must be one of the if not the biggest week of the year for you in terms of your profession it's interesting because because you have to remember to

47:48John Hunt:do the basic things as well as immerse yourself in trying to make sure you're doing as good a job as possible and by that I mean you know when was the last time you had something to drink you know a glass of water when was the last time you had some food you know don't you don't want to be get into like two o 'clock and think god i haven't had anything to eat all day you know and it's it's too late there so you have to manage the sensible boring day-to-day stuff and that's but once you've done that yeah i don't it's a place cheltenham is a place where you can uh lose so much physical energy just by being there and so i i'm not anti-social at all i like to catch up with people but if I haven't sort of caught up with them by 11 30 I'm not going to go traipsing down to the Guinness village to meet them for a half a lager at midday do you know what I mean with a 120 start I like to be up where I'm going to be an hour or so before the first race and yeah I just I do like to take advantage of the of the calmer moments within the busyness of that that day it's a long it's a long it's only four days I know it doesn't sound a great deal and people will say, yeah, come and do my night shift for four days and see how you feel.

49:03John Hunt:And I get all of that, but it's still, you do just have to look after yourself a little bit.

49:07John Murray:For a would-be commentator, what would your advice be?

49:11John Hunt:I would say keep belief in yourself. If you think you can do it, you probably can. With regard to racing, as I say, there's access to racing everywhere, online. There's two dedicated racing channels. There's a brilliant terrestrial racing channel, ITV, We cover the racing every single weekend and most big week meetings as well. So the access to the racing is there. If you think you can commentate on it, sit down in front of that action and practice and practice and practice and keep going because I don't think there are any shortcuts really. I think literally the more you do, the better you'll get at it.

49:51John Hunt:And, of course, if you really want to be a racing commentator, you'll think of that as an investment, not a chore. And if it's a chore to you, then I don't think you want to be a commentator.

50:00Ian Dennis:John, it's been great having you on. And we could have, we could, it's the same when other of our colleagues have been on here. We've always said, you know, we could just go on and on and on and on. Because there are so many things we could talk about. But that's been brilliant. We've just got a couple of unintended pub names from sports commentary for you. And we will wrap up with the great glossary of football commentary as well. So last time we had the ill-advised challenge with its daring decor and reckless cocktails. We also had the dangerous Mark Chapman from the TMS Cricket Commentary and the Whip It In, which is an actual pub that we've been to in York.

50:42Ian Dennis:Liverpool fan Tony says, come on, fellas, in the New Zealand Cricket Commentary, you missed another one. Chana, bowls in, Chapman goes second ball, glorious delivery, it's his third wicket, Tichana, flighted, pitched on middle, hit the top of off,

51:03Mark Chapman:and there's a bowler, there is not a prettier sight, New Zealand 84 for 5 now, Chapman goes for a two ball duck.

51:12Ian Dennis:Tony says Two Ball Duck would be a great name for a pub.

51:16John Murray:This is a good one from Liverpool fan Dave in Seton in East Devon. This potential pub name has been mentioned many, many times over the years. Not many pubs are as unpopular. I refer you to the dreaded drop, a remote, shabby, rural tavern in serious need of complete refurbishment. a miserable landlord who can't be bothered cleaning the pipes and still has eggnog and baby sham on the shelves. Every team in the world is trying to avoid it.

51:50Ian Dennis:The dreaded drop. And this from Daniel in Burgess Hill. During Liverpool versus West Ham,

51:57Mark Chapman:maestro of the Mike Ian introduced a new, potentially very niche pub.

52:02John Murray:Gakpo there, barged into the back of Socek. I meant to say this actually in the first half, Tim Robinson, the referee, Chris Kavanagh is back involved. He was given last week off after his controversial performance between Villa and Newcastle and the FA Cup, and he will actually be in charge of Manchester United Crystal Palace tomorrow, the man in the middle at Old Trafford.

52:23Mark Chapman:The man in the middle, I'm imagining, being an externally low-key pub, frosted glass windows, perhaps a plain black sign creaking on its hinges, huddled inside the gaggles of referees mumbling into their pints about being misunderstood, whilst Howard Webb takes to the mic and regales the congregation with a medley of his favourite motivational karaoke hits. I'd love to hear your suggestions, perhaps, of what Howard would be singing.

52:48Ian Dennis:Thank you, Daniel. Possibly best that we don't do that, Ian.

52:53John Murray:I did give that a little bit of thought, actually. Oh, did you? Go on. Yeah, it actually kept me awake last night. I thought ACDC, Back in Black.

53:02Ian Dennis:Oh, yeah, very good.

53:04John Murray:So who sang Stuck in the Middle with You? That was Steeler's Wheel, wasn't it?

53:09Ian Dennis:Right.

53:10John Murray:Stuck in the Middle. Yeah, very good.

53:11Ian Dennis:I'm a little bit younger than you, so I didn't know who sang that. Oh, yeah, yeah. It was a bit like, what was it, the George Baker selection from last week. And also, as well, Ian, Daniel, who referred to you as the Maestro of the Mic. That would be a good pub name, wouldn't it? The Maestro of the Mic. You can see that on the sign.

53:29John Murray:Well, I tell you what, when you retire, if you ever retire, you could put your BBC pension and open up a little a little boozer

53:39Ian Dennis:well I'm not sure if that's the direction I want to be going in anyway probably do call it profits anyway if you spot an unintended pub or film name in any sports commentary not just any of ours do let us know tcv at bbc.co.uk and whatsapps to 08000 289 369 and to finish with the great glossary of football commentary. This is where we look for commentary terms and phrases, which you might have heard on the radio. And you can find our entire glossary in the episode description. So it's all there for you. So Division 1, that's where we put football exclusive terms, and Division 2 for terms used in football commentary, but also used in other sports.

54:27Ian Dennis:So last week, we added Booked and Sweeper Keeper into Division 1. Recently, we also added Coupon Buster into Division 1 as a football exclusive term. But would you get a Coupon Buster in racing, John? Probably not, would you doubt it?

54:45John Hunt:I'd say no, no. Coupons are very much in your territory.

54:48Ian Dennis:Louis, or Lewis, says the horse racing equivalent could be a dark horse.

54:53John Hunt:I think I'm just thinking of the horse racing equivalent. is you hear place pop buster.

54:58Ian Dennis:All right, yeah. We've had a few of those. One that occurred to me this week, because we were talking about the very tight situation now at the bottom end of the Premier League, I used the phrase to a friend of mine that they'll be looking to be staving off relegation. I was thinking, what other scenario do you use the phrase staving off? I cannot think of another scenario where I would say, well, they're staving off whatever. I think that is a, well, it's probably a Division 2 staving off relegation. So there's that, my own personal contribution, but we've got this one from Spud and Freddie in Oxford.

55:41Ian Dennis:Hello, chaps. A super dictionary contribution from Ali's commentary on Arsenal-Chelsea with Matt Upson.

55:46Mark Chapman:Is that what they were looking at? Handball there for advice for that one. I think so. Didn't need that much of a check, did it, really? I thought it was pretty straightforward with that. He's got to try to head the ball and it's just hit him on like just underneath the shoulder. Right. Now, Darren England, it's explaining the Queensbury rules here to Zubomendi and Mamadou Soren. Exactly what you're allowed to do, what you're not allowed to do off the ball, waiting for the corner to be delivered. I mean, Rice has his arms...

56:11Ian Dennis:That does fit very well into everything that happened during the Arsenal-Chelsea match. Spud says, I haven't heard it in ages, the Queensbury rules, But it's a fabulous way of describing a lengthy or fastidious rules explanation. Surely a candidate for the glossary, but I guess Division 2, since the rules themselves are the rules for boxing. Great commentary, Ali, says Spud.

56:33John Murray:And Freddie in Oxford, I was unfamiliar with the Queensbury rules, so I looked it up to discover that these are the now standard rules of boxing named the Queensbury rules due to the public endorsement by John Douglas, the Marquess of Queensbury, in the 1860s. having never heard this phrase before in any scenario sports commentary or otherwise i cannot confidently place it into either division so i'll leave that at the discretion of you estable

57:00Ian Dennis:fellows although i guess it will have to be division two won't it um and one from our unsorted category here which gareth in newtown has brought back to the table he says while While preparing a couple of boiled eggs for lunch, soft yolks, I was, as usual, listening to Five Live Sport and chuckling at Rob Green and the legend Steve Bruce discussing the shortcomings of Bournemouth keeper Georgia Petrovic.

57:29Mark Chapman:That there wasn't the hardest of strikes, and you're thinking, I think he thinks it's going to be a hard one, I'm going to go with one hand, whereas realistically you stand and set and react to it and you go with two hands. Come on, Rob, he should have put his cap on it. Come on. I can't say that, Steve. You said it. Come on. I know you're in this goalkeeper's union, and I get it. There we go. I get it totally. I get it. But come on.

57:53Ian Dennis:Put his cap on it was a great Mark Lawrenson phrase as well that he often used to use. And that's probably Division I, Ian, put his cap on it. Yeah, probably is. Yeah. And let's finish with this one from Georgie in Cheshire.

58:10Mark Chapman:Hi, team. I have a glossary suggestion that came out of Ali's commentary of Arsenal against Chelsea.

58:32Mark Chapman:No look pass. I think it's probably more likely to be Division 2 than Division 1, as I suspect it may be used in perhaps netball and basketball, although I'm not sure. In my opinion, the greatest exponent of the no-look pass would be Bobby Firmino, who also extended it to no-look finishes and no-look assists on a fairly regular basis. But I'd be very interested to hear which player each of you think has best mastered the particular art of the no-look pass.

59:07Ian Dennis:The one that comes to mind for me is Neymar. Neymar liked a no-look pass.

59:13John Murray:Yeah.

59:14Ian Dennis:Any thoughts, John? A few of those talented, didn't Paketa quite like to no-look pass, didn't he?

59:20Mark Chapman:Yeah.

59:21Ian Dennis:Should I not have mentioned Paketa?

59:26Ian Dennis:Have I blotted my copybook right at the end? so in summary and Ali will be back with us next week when we will no doubt devote a little more time to the unattended pub names and the glossary but this week we have put staving off relegation into Division 2, Queensbury rules have gone into Division 2, put his cap on it, into Division 1 and no look pass let's put it into Division 1 for the time being

1:00:03Ian Dennis:hooray so that is it john hunt thank you very much for your company i'm looking forward to

1:00:08John Hunt:um a rendition of um no no on monday when we're three and a half ago you see you've

1:00:16Ian Dennis:you've you've made a mistake there you've fallen into the same trap that i did that'll rear its head again now. And questions, welcome for our Q &A episode to tcv at bbc.co.uk or you can send us a message or voice note on WhatsApp to 08000 289 369 and likewise make sure you listen to John and the team commentating on Cheltenham next week on Five Live and BBC Sounds. But that is it for this episode of the Football Daily and remember you can find each and every episode of the Commentator's View by scrolling down your Football Daily feed.

1:01:18Mark Chapman:Her sport curls its way past the best goalkeeper in the division. BBC Women's Football Weekly. The latest news, insights and analysis from across the women's game. Lucy Bruns, welcome back. What one lioness do you think would make the best rugby player? Me. Listen. With the BBC Sounds app.

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