The Commentators' View: Milner’s landmark & TCV pillow talk

0:00The Commentator's View on The Football Daily with Alistair Bruce Ball, John Murray and Ian Dennis Hello, welcome to the Football Daily. I'm Alistair Bruce Ball and this is the Commentator's View where we five live commentators discuss the football we watch, the places it takes us to from the Moss Rose to the Marra Cana, although not been to the Marra Cana for a while actually, and the words and phrases we use to describe it all, lots of which of course feature in our great glossary of football commentary. We always need your help with that. So emails to tcv at bbc.co.uk. but no rotation policy for the commentator's view this week.

0:39The BBC's football correspondent, John Murray, is here. And the BBC's senior football reporter, Ian Dennis, is here in the dark this morning for this episode. Ian, would you care to explain? He's got a slight electrical issue. Apart from that, everything is fine. I think John's halo will provide the light for this episode. Yeah, just sitting here shining it. A couple of parish notices before we start the episode this week. John, you mentioned, I think it was in last week's episode, about you, Mark Chapman and Paul Robinson, all featuring in Commentator Balls in Private Eye. You've then very kindly posted the excerpt from the magazine in our WhatsApp group.

1:22And I thought for the benefit of our listeners, I should read them out. So you're all at the same game here, aren't you? I think we were, yeah. Yeah, this was the Macclesfield Crystal Palace. Was that right? Cup tie. I think so, yeah. Third round cup tie. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Who shall we start with then? Do we start with John Murray? Do we start with Paul Robinson or do we start with Mark? Let's leave Mark Chapman. Let's leave Herr Chapman to last. So Paul Robinson's comment that features here. Once again, Crystal Palace's Achilles heel raises its head. Which is very good. John Murray's. He's underneath the cover of the dugout discussing with his staff how they can actually get out of this little hole.

2:04I remember saying that and thinking That might feature again And Hare Chapman's That's a goal that changes the game Particularly the score That's a classic Which you can't quibble with that can you? No you can't And John our other Paris notice You also posted in the group earlier this week There was someone you wanted to mention On this week's pod Who's helped you out in your travels That's right, yes, because last weekend when I was on my way to Stamford Bridge, I was travelling on the train and there were, and indeed I think all through February, there are engineering works at the weekend on the East Coast main line.

2:44But I found another route to go. However, when I was approaching Leeds Station, I found that all trains south had been cancelled, which was a bit of a worry. And as Ian will leap, no doubt, onto, I was taking a little bit of a risk traveling on Saturday morning anyway to get to that match because of the longer route. Anyway, I thought, uh-uh, this is trouble. And a very friendly member of LNER staff, one of the people who wear those long red coats, came up to me and said, can I help you? And I explained the situation and he said, yes, absolutely. Get on that train there, which will take you to Peterborough.

3:23and then at Peterborough, you can get a bus to Bedford and then get back onto the line, which would take me to St Pancras. And so I said, thank you very much. I was just about to head to the train. And he said, you're John Murray, aren't you? And I said, yes, I am. And he said, I was listening to you this morning. So he was listening to the radio version of the podcast this morning. And the one thing I wish I'd done, I should have got his name. I didn't get his name, but he was very helpful and I would not be at all surprised if he was listening to this now as well Was he walking his dog at the time?

4:00He was not walking his dog I was on a train back from Manchester on Monday so I did Manchester United on Fulham alongside Steve Bruce on a Sunday and then got the train home on the Monday and you know when you settle down on a train you've got a couple of hours ahead of you you've got a bit of work to do and a book to read or a podcast to listen to John, possibly not in your case certainly not this podcast anyway um and then a gentleman sat opposite me and started a conversation you know you think i'm not massively in the mood for for talking today i've got quite a lot to do and then just had such a lovely chat with this chat for two hours that before i knew it we pulled into euston so it's a chap called andrew didn't get his surname uh rugby league coach um lived in Bolton.

4:47We talked a little bit about Five Live and stuff like that, but it was just a fantastic sort of chat for two hours. Yeah, it was very nice to meet him. How nice. It's lovely when that happens, isn't it? Yeah, it was great. That doesn't often happen to you, does it, Ian, because you don't like sitting with people on the train. Well, I always prefer to drive, and therefore I can talk to people who I want to talk to on the phone. so there's a warning for all listeners if you see ian dennis on the train do not approach straight onto the business of the pod so unintended pub names great glossary of football commentary uh to come and a game of clash of the commentators but let's start by sort of previewing uh the commentaries we've got coming up on five live and bbc sounds and for you two this weekend chaps it's it's title race time so we've got arsenal six points ahead of manchester City 14 games to go and first up this weekend are Arsenal Ian so you'll watch them having seen them actually in midweek in in the second leg of the League Cup semi-final you're doing Arsenal Sunderland with Rob Green three o 'clock Saturday.

5:58It's my third successive game actually covering Arsenal because I covered them last weekend against Leeds which we thought would have been a test and actually turned out to be no test at all the way that Arsenal performed then obviously I saw them beat Chelsea with that late goal from Kai Havertz in midweek. And I actually think as well that psychologically, and I said this on the radio on Tuesday night, psychologically that could be huge, that. Because had they lost, it would have been a fifth successive semifinal defeat. So you know then what the narrative would have been. That would have then, I think, seeped its way into, oh, it's Arsenal.

6:36You know, they're now going to lose the Premier League title. You know, they haven't got to see it through. So the fact that they actually now have got over that little bit of a hurdle, ended that hoodoo, I think the Arsenal players and the supporters to their credit, because I think that at no point when there was tension in the ground, did the supporters get jittery. I thought, if anything, they backed their side, increased the volume. And I think that Arsenal this year are setting their own narrative, to which is against what everybody else, particularly on social media, would suggest that, oh, they're not going to see it through after three successive runners-up appearances in the table.

7:13I think that this is a different Arsenal and they're setting their own agenda. So I think psychologically getting to that final in midweek was huge for them. Did you spot the, I mean, it's easier to do, because I was listening to our commentary, listening to you, but sort of with TV pictures on. It wasn't in front of the Chelsea fans, but when Havertz got the late winner, there was a little point to the badge on his shirt to the Arsenal fans, as in, I belong here. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't see that. I was... The way that the Arsenal bench erupted, so you're obviously calling the goal, but then you couldn't help have your eyes drawn to how wildly the celebrations were from both the officials of Arsenal, but also the supporters too.

7:56So I didn't actually spot that, Ali. No, no, no, you wouldn't. From where we commentate from, you wouldn't see it until he'd seen a replay. So Arsenal-Sunderland, Saturday, 3 o 'clock. On Sports Extra, 3 o 'clock Saturday is Bournemouth Villa. 5.30 on Saturday. Newcastle have got a bounce back from the defeat against Manchester City in the other League Cup semi-final second leg this week. They've got Brentford at home. Ailey Barber and Pat Nevin will bring you commentary of that one. I'm doing Brighton Palace on Sunday. That kicks off at 2 o 'clock, and I'm going to come back to that game in a second because we're going to see, well, we may see a sort of landmark Premier League moment in that game.

8:41But, John, before I get to that, 4.30 Sunday, Liverpool, Manchester City, and you obviously saw Manchester City in midweek get through to that League Cup final. What did you make of them and Pep Guardiola? Well, this will be the third consecutive Manchester City match that I've commentated on after the 2-2 with Tottenham and then the second leg of the semi-final. And I think what we've learned in that time is what we knew previously is that teams can get at them and Tottenham scored a couple of goals. Newcastle really created chances and actually even though Manchester City in the end won the semi-final so comfortably on the scoreline Newcastle created enough chances in that second leg if they'd taken them all to have turned the tie around so I think that this this surely will be a match where Liverpool will feel that they can get at Manchester City and if indeed Arsenal and Aston Villa have won their matches on Saturday, City will feel that they have to win that.

9:43So this could be lively. Yeah, and Liverpool are, well, I was going to say in a good moment. They're playing a bit better at the moment, aren't they? Witts and Eketike in particular are linking up well. Yeah, they are. So the danger there is obvious. One other thing I'd like to say about Manchester City as well, and you mentioned Pep Guardiola and what the mood was and the atmosphere inside Manchester City's ground the other evening. after they qualified for a cup final. And Pep Guardiola very pointedly went round the ground because it was probably about half full by that stage. City have just qualified for a cup final, yet many people have not stayed until the final whistle.

10:24And I thought it was, Michael Brown actually pointed it out to me, who was the summariser that night, that Pep Guardiola was very exaggeratedly and clapping the supporters who were inside the ground. He went all round the stadium, as if to say, you've stayed and I'm thanking you for your support getting through to the cup final. And I know a lot's been said about the fact that the stadium wasn't full for the second leg of a semi-final. But I think it's a real issue at the moment, having been there, having been at Tottenham last weekend where there was dissatisfaction with various things to do with Tottenham Hotspur Football Club from the supporters, the running of.

11:04And similarly at Chelsea on the Saturday. And I think it's a real issue at the moment that the disconnect there is between traditional fans and the owners of their football clubs. And it really feels that they are two forces that are pushing in different directions. Well, I mean, Manchester United-Fulham on Sunday where I was, which had a sort of old school, dramatic, thrilling Manchester United finish. before that game, there was another protest from the 1958 group about not necessarily what's going on on the field at the moment, but more about, I think, yeah, fed up. Supporters just fed up, feel like they're being taken for a ride.

11:42Yeah, and of course, for Manchester United, it's gone on for decades that they feel they are being ignored and they feel they're being priced out. So traditional fans are being priced out because owners want what you could call new fans who are coming. and visiting from wherever they come from and are spending a lot of money at the club on their visits. And it's an issue. And I think this is definitely something that the football regulator will have on their agenda, I feel, and should be high up the agenda for them. So going back to Sunday, 2 o 'clock, I'm alongside Danny Gabidon for Brighton and Hove Albion, Ian, to give them their full and proper title against Crystal Palace.

12:27so one of the things we might see there is a Jorgen Strand-Larsen debut for Crystal Palace but that's not the potential landmark moment I'm talking about but were you aware have you seen the article on the BBC Sport website I've just read it this morning that James Milner when he next comes on the field in the Premier League will equal Gareth Barry's appearances record so his next appearance will be his 653rd Premier League appearance in his 24th season of Premier League football. Can you remember him as a... We're probably all old enough to have seen the start of his... Or commentated on the start of his...

13:06So that would be 2002 at Leeds. Don't know, wouldn't it? Leeds started out, yeah. Yes, it was, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I covered Leeds United for four years for radio Leeds, but I'd moved on then. I think I'd joined Five Live already at that point, so I didn't actually see him break through. but I did spend a lot of time with him when I covered the England's under-21s. There was a tournament in Holland in 2007 and then I remember him in Sweden in 2009 and then spoke a lot to him when he was an England international at various England camps. And I've got to say, the way he has conducted himself, he is just the model pro, isn't he?

13:48He is the consummate professional. So it'll be a brilliant achievement for him when he goes on to actually break the record. Yeah, I was thinking that, that when he comes on or if he comes on this weekend, you're equaling the record. We've got to do it all again when he breaks the record. Why don't we just save it when he breaks the record? But the other thing I was thinking, John, watching the Everton game for Brighton at the weekend, just talking about being the consummate professional, 40 years old, he gets on, I think, for a minute or two at the end of that game. And annoyingly, once he's on, Everton equalised, David Moyes goes skipping down the touchline and gets a yellow card.

14:24You've then got to do all the running after the game because you've only played a couple of minutes of football. But when you're in your 24th season of Premier League football and you're still prepared to be doing all of that, that says something in itself, doesn't it, I think? Yeah, and it can't be a coincidence that he has kept himself fit over the years, which I think attests to what Ian says about him being a professional. He's clearly had to look after himself to be able to do that. So, yeah, if he is able to reach that landmark, which, of course, would be a record for league appearances only since 1992.

14:56So, I don't know. What is the actual record? Does anyone know? Most league appearances, who holds that? What do you think the number will be? So, for Premier League, it's 6-5-3. All time, I think it's going to be 900 plus. Would that be... Could be a goalkeeper. Is that crazy talk? Could be a goalkeeper, could it? Wow. Wow, I've got it already from producer Nathan. Peter Shilton. Yeah, very well. 1 ,005 games. So that's league appearances. I think so. So he's still got 400 games to play then, basically. Not quite. But it also just gives us another chance to remind younger listeners that actually this league did start in 1888 and is the oldest organised league in the world, which is actually something we should be proud of and not just talk about things that happened after 1992.

15:48Of course, James Milner's record will be top flight. So I wonder what the record is for appearances in the top flight. There's all sorts for Nathan to do now, isn't there? All sorts of records while he tries to concentrate on. I bet he wishes he hadn't brought that up in the first place now. So I've just, Nathan's just whispered John Hollins in my ear, 714, top flight for an outfield player. Okay. Yeah, very good. Very good. He'll probably not beat that James Milner, will he? No. No, 6-5-3 in his 24th season and he's 40. No. But he'll hold that Premier League record, John. So it's still, it is still mightily impressive.

16:30So that is our weekend football. Then in midweek next week, so before you listen to your next commentator's view, Tuesday night and Wednesday night there is Premier League football and we will be going around the ground so it's those nights they're great to listen to actually where we don't have a main commentary but we have reporters at all the games and as the goals go in as the stories develop lots of discussion around it so that is Tuesday and Wednesday next week we are going to get on to our correspondence and John you are first to read today you have been deliberately assigned the first email of the day Emails coming to tcv at bbc.co.uk.

17:10And don't forget your WhatsApps and voice notes 08000 289 369. So, John, can you see what you've got to read? OK, I'm intrigued by this. It says, hello, gentlemen, my husband, Mike and I. And this is from Colchester fan Caroline. She says, my husband, Mike and I are big fans of the pod. But I wonder if anyone else listens in the way we do. Unfortunately, we don't have a dog. Our Sunday evening ritual is to go to bed fairly early, around 9pm, and listen to the pod. However, we generally only listen to the first 10-15 minutes before one or both of us are asleep. Upon going to bed on Monday, a conversation that goes something like this ensues.

18:05How far did we get? I heard this bit. Well, I heard um at all this bit, etc. We then spend 10 minutes finding the right place, often re-listening to bits, until we agree on a place to resume. Depending on what time it is, we might listen to 10 minutes or the rest of the pod. You can see where this is going. Most weeks, we've only just finished one episode before we start the next. What makes this even funnier is that we are only in our mid-40s and are often tucked in by our children aged 17 and 18. Keep up the good work, both on the pod and the commentaries. P.S. I heard John's voice reading this while writing it.

18:57so there we are well we are 15 minutes in to this they've missed that you know what I can now envisage a scenario that Caroline's dropped off before Mike she's just in the land of nod and Mike now wakes her up to say Caroline, Caroline, they're talking about us Caroline Caroline then can't get back off to sleep, and Mike then drifts off five minutes later. Yeah, and then snores all night, and Caroline can't get to sleep at all. Yeah, I know, exactly. Mike's a Trangmia fan, by the way, Caroline has said. So an unlikely Colchester-Trangmia combination. Yeah, that reminds me, when I was a kid, little kid, not particularly well, struggling to get to sleep, my parents gave me the old one of counting sheep, count sheep until you fall asleep and i can't remember how many i got to and then being the conscientious young fellow i was decided i needed to tell my parents in the morning how many i got to so i got myself up to write the figure down and then i was wide awake again and had to go and wake them up to tell them i'd not managed to get to sleep because i got up to write the number of the number of sheep there and the other one i reminded myself of i don't know whether you ever had any sort of um weird misunderstandings as kids but i was talking about this to someone the other day when we first moved house when i was seven years old i got very upset about the idea of moving house because my understanding of moving house was you left all your own stuff in your house and then you just got other people's stuff whichever house you didn't take your stuff with you that was my understanding of i don't know whether you ever had anything like that so my parents were sort of wondering what what was troubling me and i was i was terrified my star figures and all my football stickers.

20:53We're going to whoever was buying our house. I never actually moved house until I left home. Right, okay. Did you take your stuff with you? Yes. Well, no, I didn't because they're still there now. They're still there. Yeah, because the family still live in that farmhouse. Joseph says, Dear TCV, I was listening to Sports Report at the weekend after John's pre-match team news from Stamford Bridge ahead of the 5.30 kickoff. I was surprised to hear from him again a few moments later. I presume this was Hare Chapman's fault and it was lucky that John didn't say anything controversial or bring TCV into disrepute.

21:31My question is who was he greeting and was he aware of the gaffe until now? Let's have a listen. Chelsea are much changed and there's no Esther Vau. West Ham are here with new confidence. Then it's Liverpool-Newcastle at 8 o 'clock in the Championship. The leaders Coventry are beaten 2-1 at QPR. Second place Middlesbrough are now level on points at the top thanks to victory over Norwich. Portsmouth, Sea of West Brom in the big game at the bottom. Cardiff's lead at the top of the league. That's a classic John hello as well, so typically. So John, I presume... I was messaged about that and I wasn't aware of that actually going out on air.

22:15So I presume that was me being switched across to the World Service. I've got to stick up for Herr Chapman here. That's nothing to do with him. That is someone in the studio who's left John's fader up for you to talk on Five Live, isn't it? Yes. So I actually did text Herr Chapman. I said, you did well to keep it going. And then I spoke to him again in midweek about it. And he said that it didn't throw him at all. it didn't he's a he's like james milney he's a consummate pro we might not be blaming him correctly but i bet you he's blaming me i think he did yes but it's also the classic age-old lesson of whenever you've got a microphone in front of your mouth you know john you did say hello just because you were saying hello but you've always got to presume you are broadcasting to someone somewhere haven't you so you you've obviously been given the go-ahead to say hello you don't think you're talking across the top of Sports Report.

23:18But if you drop something or spill tea in your lap, you can't say beep, beep, beep, beep, can you? Otherwise, big trouble. That might have put Air Chapman off the Sports Report headlines. You know what was funny the other week? You know when we had that episode with Claire, Claire O'Donoghue, the producer on a Saturday afternoon, which was still, I think, one of my favourite episodes of this podcast. But the other week, she said, Denno, are you there? anyway i never responded and we were due to go on air and all of a sudden she really did shout at me she went denno and i went yeah anyway then she said right you're going live after this answer don't say anything and i just went okay so i didn't speak when i should have spoken and then when i wasn't meant to talk i actually did which she found uh rather annoying i think excellent Very good.

24:13Right. Unintended pub names. People love these. A couple of these from our commentaries before we do Clash of the Commentators. Last week we had the backside of Castellanos in the rolling hills of northern Spain, the Pink Pope with its fruity and flowery cocktails, and the False Nine with tactics boards and magnetic counters on every wall. We also had The Mighty Maguire and Battered in Buddha as unintended film names. Talking of which, 19-year-old Ed has sent us this voice note. It's Ed from Adelaide, South Australia. Love the pod, listen to it every week. And last week came across an unintended pub name.

24:55This originated in John's last trip to Buddha, where fans could be seen sheltering in their favourite pub, the Tumbling Murray. You can see the warm atmosphere and locals enjoying a smorgasbord of warm Norwegian delicacies and maybe even some Man City fans. But rest assured, if their meals or drinks are unsatisfactory, they shall be reimbursed. Thanks, guys. The tumbling Murray. This refers to me slipping over on the ice in Buda outside the stadium. That's very good, Ed. Yeah, well done, Ed. Yeah, very good. It wasn't so much of a tumble, actually. It was more of a sort of collapse, actually. I went straight down, the collapsing Murray.

25:43But also you could have in the tumbling Murray, you could serve a certain type of glass, the Murray Tumbler, couldn't you? You could actually serve a shot of something in the Murray Tumbler, so you could have both. We seem to get a lot of correspondence from Adelaide, don't we? Yes. Are you suggesting that the World Tour could go down under?

26:03Jonathan in Doncaster has got in touch. I can't decide if this is an unintended pub name or another term for your glossary, perhaps both, but it's Into the Mixer. I can imagine a group of young 'uns, not me, but I do have student children, gathering together for evening pre-drinks and then heading out to Into the Mixer for cheap drinks, double up for one pound off as pitchers and such like before deciding whether to stay or to move on to more madness. So that's it. I mean, stick it in the mixer. I'm surprised we've not discussed that in the glossary as yet because that's definitely a potential glossary term.

26:42And another one that was mentioned to me, have we had great touch for a big man? Is that in? Because one of our most devoted listeners, Martin O 'Boyle, Premier League match manager. He was at Manchester City the other night and he was suggesting that if we haven't mentioned it already. It's unsorted, John. So it's below the line. So we've got to stick it in Div 1 or Div 2. So let's do that today. I used that sort of slightly tongue-in-cheek the other day about Arakadare, the Wolves centre-forward, who showed a wonderful sort of velvet touch with his feet. And he is enormous. us and so immediately it was like good touch for a big man basically it had to be i enjoyed you commentating when we were on the subject the wolves mané oh yeah when when when was that was that when he scored when he scored yeah he scored in the win against west ham yeah that's right mateus mateus mané yeah and and actually because we mentioned that the new west ham striker going back to pronunciations oh yeah when i actually got there i thought how am i going to say his name and Steve Wilson our match of the day colleague advised me that it is castor Janos castor Janos so I thought I'm gonna go with that so I went with castor Janos yeah because cook area is cook area because the two L's in Spanish pronounce a Y sound so it's cook area it's not cookerella it's cook Correa.

28:13So Castellanos, but because he's South American, the double L, so in Spanish he would be Castellanos, but because he's South American, it's Castellanos. Yes, as Steve said to me, it's like Ulloa. Do you remember who used to play for him? Oh, yeah. Leicester? Yeah. Leonardo Ulloa. And it's why, going back to Correa, it was Seve Ballesteros rather than Seve Ballesteros, as some would have called him, but that double L was... Si. Was where we had. Exactly. Yeah, very good. My name's Steve Bradnell, assistant manager at Royal Oak FC. You may have seen me online going viral. Viral sensation. And now the BBC have given me the chance to set the footballing world bang to rise.

28:59This could be a great opportunity for us, lads, a podcast for the BBC. Can I just say, what's a podcast? Brilliant. Great start. Well done, Bob. Brilliant. We can completely show utter transparency to Royal Oak fans. I'll use my charm. Gift it, Gab. Game's gone. The Steve Bracknell podcast. Watch on YouTube. Listen on BBC Sounds. The Commentators' View on the Football Daily with Alistair Bruce Ball, John Murray and Ian Dennis. Time for Clash of the Commentators, where two of us take turns to answer a question and give as many correct answers as we can in 30 seconds, which in my case is quite often not very many.

29:42Denno in a rich vein of form. He's on a five-match winning streak. He's unstoppable at the moment. Top of the table, 10 wins from 12. And today, Ian, you have the luxury of asking the questions, of sitting back, pipe slippers, and just watching chaos ensue. That is correct, because it is a basement battle between the two of you, Ali and John. four wins from 12. Sammy in Wokingham says, I hope Ali can make a comeback in Clash of the Commentators because Ali's actually on a four-match losing streak and John has beaten Ali in each of your last two meetings. Are you aware of that, John? Has there been any correspondence about the controversial?

30:26No, it's gone now. Let it go. Let it go, as they said in Frozen. So who wants to go first? Who's going to disconnect? I went first last week. So, John, I'll offer you the choice of what you want to do. OK, I'll go first then. Disconnecting. I've got to say, when I saw this question, I was pleased that I was the quiz master on this occasion. So listen carefully to this one. Listen carefully. After scoring at Old Trafford last weekend, Raul Jimenez has now put away all 12 of his Premier League penalties, the outright most by any player with a 100 % scoring record from the spot in Premier League history.