The Commentators' View: Robot Wars, Cantona & Bodø

26:48And I'm looking down thinking, what, these people aren't even in the squad. and then I realised what they'd done and the game's virtually kicking off and World Cup final in 1998 if you remember that one we didn't know whether Ronaldo the original Ronaldo was going to be playing is he playing we got a team sheet up right Ronaldo's playing two minutes later team sheet came up to the commentary position Ronaldo's not in the team and it went on like that until the players walked out in in Paris that the game has changed so much for us now I I remember doing homework for a World Cup and did a work for Iran.

27:21And I don't know about you two, but I'll start my World Cup homework in about, well, now really, February maybe I'd start it. Again, no internet. So, or very little internet. So I'm trying to get information on Iran, phoning at the Iranian embassy, doing all this sort of stuff about Iran. This goes on for a month and a half, something like this. I get a knock on the door and there's two uniformed and a police, and a plain clothes. at the front door and they've gone um can we come in and i said what's this to do with well you've been involving uh telephone calls out to iran and trying to get information on iran yes and they came in and one of them was really really hard cop you know really hard cop and they came in and i and they came into the kitchen and on the walls picture of ian right and myself from way way back and really nice picture of you and myself and the fellow's gone oh i know who you are now I know who you are oh this is really funny and I went no it's not it's terrifying so he was okay he's going to make us a cup of tea and the other one wouldn't have it I want to know your contacts why are you doing this and I said I'm doing it to find out how many goals and how many groin strains the Iranian centre half has been getting up to that's how secretive this is and how how devilishly important it would be for the nation but it just goes to show how things have changed so I nearly got nicked well we've had plenty of correspondence, Jonathan.

28:45Dear John, Ian and Jonathan, love the pod. I listen every week whilst out running in Shenzhen in China. Listening to 5 Live commentary and podcasts is a huge part in keeping me connected to home. After hearing Chris Sutton disrespectfully, albeit correctly, dismiss Bristol City on the FPL pod, I was delighted to hear Bristol City superfan Jonathan Pearce would be appearing on this week's TCV. My friends and I always love Jonathan managing to drop a Bristol City reference into seemingly any commentary he does. Is Jonathan aware he does this? Also, what is his favourite Bristol City memory from the past 25 years?

29:24Looking forward to plenty of Bristol City mentions at the World Cup courtesy of Ross McCrory and Antoine Semenyo. And also, Bristol City fan Sam loved the pod. I always wanted to be a football commentator growing up. Funny enough, he says, I used to practice while playing Sabutio. So did I, actually. My question for your esteemed guest, Jonathan Pearce, does he deliberately pepper in a Bristol City reference into every commentary he does? Absolutely. Absolutely, I do. Yeah, I'm well aware of it. And, you know, I was involved with the club when I was young. It was my dream to play for them. It didn't happen.

30:05I trained for them for a little while. the first team as I knew that knew me since I was really small treat me as if I played 500 games I worked with the club with my dad, we were the original football analysts, we were the first club in Europe to do it we videoed the games and then made an analytical tape up for the manager Alan Dix, the love of the club was there my favourite moment would have been 1976 when they got promotion to the top flight, Clive White had scored against Sportsman and then lo and behold, all of a sudden I'm reporting commentating on Bristol City games and occasionally I had to do the other ones I said beforehand, Bristol Rovers, but in those days there was more of an affinity between the two clubs than I think there is these days.

30:44But I'm there suddenly doing Bristol City. They'd just been relegated from the top flight and I was such an omen, such a lucky talismanic figure for them that they were bottom of the lowest tier in my tenure in the job. Within three years, they went from top to bottom. 92nd, I remember being at Rochdale when they were 92nd in the league. but to be commentating on that club was fantastic but that's why I love the club and yes I do put lots of Bristol City mentions in because of course we know that we are talking about the future European champions here My name's Steve Bradnell assistant manager at Royal Oak FC You may have seen me online with Vinyl Vinyl sensation And now the BBC have given me the chance to set the footballing world bang to rise This could be a great opportunity for us lads, a podcast for the BBC.

31:39Can I just say, what's a podcast? Brilliant. Great start. Well done, Bob. Brilliant. We can completely show utter transparency to Royal Oak fans. I'll use my charm, gift at gab. Game's gone. The Steve Bracknell podcast. Watch on YouTube. Listen on BBC Sounds. The commentator's view on the Football Daily. Listen on BBC Sounds. Can you remember your great line from the 1996 Euros, that 4-1 win for England over the Netherlands? Ready Teddy Sherry? Yep, the Teddy Sheringham goal. The Dutch weren't ready, the defence wasn't steady, and there was good old Teddy. And then we've got this one, JP, the Eric Cantona kick.

32:28Cantona is dismissed. Where can there be a place in the game for a man of such extravagant talent? A man of such wicked temperament? A man who has been quite rightly dismissed? A man who has now jumped... Oh my goodness me! He has kicked! He's punched a fan! Eric Cantona has jumped in and sees a kung fu kick! A fan! Manchester United fans are coming across! I have never seen as disgraceful an incident as that in all my years in football. Eric Cantona should be thrown out of the game for that sort of incident. I care not one jot about his supreme talent. He launched himself six feet into the crowd and Kung Fu kicked a supporter who was without a shadow of a doubt giving him lip.

33:20What do you think when you hear that again now? Well, I'll be honest with you, John. I don't like it when they keep pulling it back on every anniversary of that. Because it wasn't something that I said or did for posterity. You don't do commentary for that reason. You do it. You say what you see in that moment. And I describe what I was seeing in front of me. I was utterly staggered. The game was staggered. I'd love to meet him and talk to him about it, but it was just the whole thing unraveled in front of me and I just described it as it was, which I think is what you have to do. And it gives me no...

34:07When they replay it on every anniversary, I don't think, wow, yeah, that's brilliant. It just happened to me. And I was there and I was able to put words, paint the picture, which is what we all do as commentators on radio, especially paint the picture so yeah I remember the moment very well I remember that period in my life very well and I I'm torn when I hear that commentary again I'm torn because of what it's I'm torn because of what it's used for really these days and I don't like that however you know you absolutely nailed that and as we all know as commentators you're right it's a snapshot isn't it what you're describing is a snapshot in a commentary however many decades ago but also you know it's possible you might not have seen it however you had a great view of it clearly i was at the top of the aisle the commentary position the back of the stand at cellars which is still the same exactly the same commentary position it's actually now where my commentary position is now radio fives and um i was i was at the top of that aisle so i could see exactly what happened.

35:21Richard Shaw had done a magnificent man-marking job on Cantona that night and he was rattled by it and, you know, dismissed and did what he did. It was using the word properly, I think, unbelievable what I was seeing. And you just react, you have to react in a split second. And there's this thing, people say, you know, the editors and the producers say, commentators need big words for big moments, but you don't plan it. It just happens. And the Ready Teddy Sherry one, and then people say, what about the Tony Adams one when Adams scores for Arsenal? I said, he always gets it. No, he bears the brunt of the donkey chance, but he always gets it right for Arsenal.

36:09People talk about that one. Did you prepare it? You can't prepare. And when you hear a commentator who has prepared a line and reads it from a script from the page, drops into commentary it clunks it clunks like changing from fourth gear down to first i don't know whether everyone would notice it or whether just a fellow commentators notice it but it's you you cannot prepare lines because something like that would just come at you and how could how could anyone prepare a line for canton our kung fu kicking a fan it would never have happened oh it did and i was extremely fortunate to be there for that moment and we are extremely fortunate to get these great moments, whatever it is, a Champions League winning goal, a promotion winning goal, whatever it is, you know, great save.

36:53We are incredibly fortunate to do the job we do. But also, I mean, brilliant piece of radio commentary in that you can picture it. You know, we've all, everyone can picture what happened and you sum it up brilliantly, as did John Champion as well, actually, who was also commentating on it on the radio that night with Mark Bright. Oh my. And Cantona has got involved with a fan in the front row of the stand and they're exchanging punches. And now the other players have come in to shepherd Cantona away. Alex Ferguson is there as well, trying to usher him towards the corner flag. But a fan in the front row actually had a word at Cantona and Cantona leapt with both feet into the front row and physically struck the fan who hit back.

37:40Cantona threw a punch. The stewards are involved now. The police are there as well. Peter Schmeichel was the last man to make sure that Cantona did go down the tunnel. Frankly, I've never seen anything like it. And from Cantona, whatever the provocation, conduct like that is unacceptable and a disgrace. The two of you, you know, two of the best radio commentators that we've had over the course of, you know, the time that I've been listening to radio commentaries, happened to be there describing what was one of the more shocking things that you'd see in a football ground. Do you know what you say there about capturing the moment and the picture?

38:17When you do the Ryder Cup and people say, do you have the pictures on and listen to the radio? And I used to. And now I don't watch it. I just listen to you guys. Because you paint the colour of Augusta. You can almost smell the flowers in your commentary. and it's like a kaleidoscope of commentary. And so that's another example of what you're saying there. And I adore that side of Five Live when you do the Ryder Cup. I've got to say, JP, I wholeheartedly agree with you about that and the goal for what the team do out at the various golf tournaments on Five Live. It's not just the football, though, of course, with you.

39:04Bournemouth fan, Ben. Hello, TCV team. When I heard that Jonathan Pearce was going to be on the next episode of the pod, I couldn't believe it. We've all heard his wonderfully passionate and animated commentary, and his most recent jaunt at the World Cup draw was excellently Eurovision-esque. However, what springs to mind most for me when I hear that unmistakable voice is Robot Wars. Growing up watching Matilda and Shunt rip their way through someone's homemade creations and dreams, all to the soundtrack of Jonathan's commentary was marvellous Saturday nights were the best. I'd love to know how he approached preparing to commentate on the chaos and whether VAR should be replaced by a ref bot.

39:50Does he still keep in touch with Sir Killalot? Jonathan Pearce, you are an institution. Thank you. And John, do you want to read the one out from Alex? Yes, there's also Alex from Chippenham says, I was very excited to hear that Jonathan Pierce was going to be on your show. I spent a large part of my childhood in another country, and my grandmother used to tape episodes of Robot Wars on VHS for me and send them out to us. I would watch and re-watch them, along with Jonathan's brilliant commentary, over and over again. To this day, I still find it difficult to watch a football match that Jonathan is commentating on without half expecting to hear, now he is taking the ball to the corner, trying to tick down the minutes, but oh, Matilda has attacked him with a chainsaw.

40:37Thank you so much, Jonathan, for putting the same thought, care and effort into the work you did for Kids TV as you do for your football commentary. Hearing your voice will always bring back very fond memories. I love doing Robot Wars. I love working with Craig Charles. He wasn't the first presenter. Jeremy Clarkson was. I think he did one year, but Craig came in and was a breath of fresh air. The thing about Robot Wars, It was mentioned there in the email, children's television. Was it? Or was it a cross between children's television and adult television? Because I think that was the beauty of that whole series.

41:11You never knew. And you never knew whether or not we were completely taking the mick or whether it was serious. And we had great fun doing it. And it was terrible, really, because you'd get these little kids had spent all the backstory was all he saved six pence here and six pence there and his pocket money for a year to build this machine and here he is little johnny six years of age and and he's really excited how excited are you johnny oh i'm very excited my little robot's going into the ring now with matilda and this robot would get absolutely annihilated within five seconds and i would burst out laughing in the commentary i genuinely found it really funny and so did craig and it's horrible isn't it?

41:53Isn't that mean? Isn't that a really mean, grumpy thing to do? Anyway, but it was hilarious. And the series grew, grew, grew and grew. It was supposed to stop the decline of the audience after The Simpsons on Friday. And I think within a few weeks, it was getting twice the number of viewers than The Simpsons. It got massive. It got too big. There were world championships. I mean, there's a famous story of Robot Wars. And the fella who was the safety officer used to produce a Michael Parkinson show, a fellow from Northern Ireland. And he showed me this video. He said, you've got to come and see this.

42:28And they were interviewing this guy from California. And I think it was California anyway. And they've gone, you know, you've got a CV here. Your robot's weapon is napalm. That's not true though, is it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's napalm. Well, you've got to show us. And we used to do it on the Dambusters base up in Lincolnshire. so they've then gone out and they videoed this and this robot sits in show us your weapon then napalm they've gone back in napalm is illegal in the UK how did you get it in, you've got to go the fellow's outraged he's threatening to sue and everything he's brought napalm into the country and there's I think it was sort of a groundbreaking programme it was really good fun to to work on and there's one very late on um the robots got bigger and bigger and bigger and we we had a massive one in the end i've forgotten what it was called huge he had he had a dog robot called growler anyway i during filming i used to go up and do a couple of days film and do the links with craig and the battles going on i used to a lot of the commentary was added on afterwards because it was just too difficult to do live and i go for a cup of coffee and And I come into shot carrying a cup of coffee and the walls were plexiglass and they used to swing in and swing out.

43:53They weren't fixed in place. And as you see me coming into shot with the coffee, there's a little kid between me and the plexiglass wall. And this gigantic robot's coming towards us. And I'm thinking, this thing's going to come out. It's so heavy. The stage is wobbling. I think this thing's going to come out of the wall. Now, instead of going, Sonny, you're in danger. You need to move quickly out of the way. I will save you. quite clearly on TV, you see me protecting my cup of coffee, push the aforementioned little boy towards the wall just as the stadium absolutely collapses. I didn't spill a drop.

44:27That is a very good story, JP. We're going to skip the unintended pub names and clash of the commentators. That will return in next week's podcast. But we are now going to go straight to the great glossary of football commentary as we add listener suggestions of commentary terms and phrases. to our increasingly long list. Remember, you can find the entire glossary in the episode description. Here's how it works. Division one for football exclusive terms. Division two for terms used in football commentary, but also used in other sports. Now, last week we added the draft excluder, Elastico, Travella and Magic of the FA Cup all into division one.

45:07However, Norwich fan Tom writes in, my son Herb was one of the people who suggested the inclusion of Travella into the great glossary of football commentary. But I must say, I object to the inclusion of Travella, Elastico and Flip Flap. These terms belong in football video games, not football commentary. I have been listening to football on the radio since the 1980s, when my dad introduced it to me by humming the Sports Report theme tune on the way back from Carrow Road. not once have I heard Travella used in a football commentary that explains my reaction last week which was something similar because I was thinking I've never really heard those terms and that's because I've missed that generation of playing football video games which is obviously where they've come from I think I'm with Tom on that I've never heard them I don't know what they are Travella was a goal scored with the outside of the boot, wasn't it?

46:11That's right. That's right. But you see, last week, Jonathan, I had to ask Ali what they were. I'd never heard of them. Well, we would have called that, back in the day, banana shot. Yeah. That was a banana shot. Yes, that's right. It's like these days, people say one, two, back in the day, that would have been a wall pass. Yeah. If you say wall pass now, I bet people don't know what that is. We've also, this week, got quite a lot of draft excluder correspondence. So Liverpool fan Becky says, Hi all, loving the pod. Hoping you all enjoyed your travels this week. I am sitting listening to the Marseille Liverpool game and watching Sobbozlai's free kick reminded me of the discussion from a previous episode as to the use of the draft excluder and whether it had any purpose.

46:59Well, that free kick going under the wall shows just how useful they can still be. Connor McNamara didn't miss the opportunity to get this phrase into the commentary, though I also did very much enjoy his description of the wall not getting planning permission. Jason from the Wirral. I was listening to last week's pod whilst taking my son to his match for the mighty Sandridge Rovers under-15s. The draft excluder comment caught my attention as I do think it looks a bit odd and it takes a player out of the following action, at least for a few seconds. I guess the question is, which looks sillier, conceding the goal or lying down behind the wall.

47:35And Simon from Cardiff says, Hi, gents. Thank you for elevating my Saturday morning weekly shop. My weekend does not feel right without it starting hunting up and down the supermarket aisles, listening to your latest offering. So that's another variation on a theme, isn't it, Ian? Normally it's dog walkers. Makes a change from a walker. It does, yeah. Makes a change from a dog walker. Anyway, Simon from Cardiff says, Charlie Adam was adamant on the debrief podcast that the draft excluder was referred to as the doorstop. Normally somebody, we call it a doorstop in terms of set play coach when I used to be one.

48:13You call which bit a doorstop? We call it the doorstop. What we call the draft exclusion. Yes. So no one else calls it the draft exclusion. You call it the doorstop. So we call it technically a doorstop in the game. That doesn't make sense, Charlie. Doorstops aren't long and thin. They're short and fat. Yeah, but they're long and then it stops the ball going there. So we call it doorstop. Simon says Steve Crossman challenged him about the logic of this. I would agree with Steve Crossman, says Simon. And the Cold War of them both referring to it differently throughout the podcast continued, much to my sniggering enjoyment.

48:44Where would you guys stand on this debate? And would you consider swapping the term in the glossary? Look forward to hearing them in the Dairy Isle soon. I think I'd stick with draft excluder, Ian. Well, I would. I mean, I remember having a draft excluder, on my parents at least, you know, at a doorstop that Steve says is short and stubby, isn't it? We had a draft excluder shaped like a dachshund. Yeah. I think that was quite a common thing, wasn't it? Yeah. They're long and thin. Also on draft excluder, Steve Herman from BBC Radio WM says, I'm listening to your most recent episode while doing commentary prep for Albion's next two games.

49:20The conversation about a draft excluder in a defensive wall reminded me of an alternative term that is used by my pundit, Tony Bomber-Brown. He says that during his playing days, the player lying down behind the wall was known as a grub hunter. It now features regularly in our coverage when the situation arises. That's brilliant. I'm going to use that. I'm going to use that line. What a player, by the way, Bomber-Brown. But I'm going to use that grub hunter. That's brilliant. I have to say, I don't particularly remember that draft exclusion being used in those times. Do you? No, I can't. They must have done something, though, because Wolves used to jump.

49:57They must have done something, but I can't really remember that, no. But, yeah, Grubhunter, Grubh, yeah, that'll do for me. This week's suggestions. Frustrated Chelsea fan, Inovan, Craig, love the show. Writing to you all the way from Vancouver, Canada. With my mob on their 58th manager in the last 10 years, there's a phrase I'm used to hearing quite a bit now that I couldn't find in the glossary. That is, in the dugout. as in there's a new manager in the dugout. With this work for Division I, I can't remember hearing in the dugout used in any other sport, similar to use of bullpen in baseball, as in the Toronto Blue Jays just didn't have enough in their bullpen to win this World Series.

50:39And Sarah in Colorado has sent us a voice note. Hello, TCV crew. I was reviewing the latest edition of the Great Glossary and couldn't help but notice two very common and very familiar phrases that are missing. The first is on his or her bike. Is this a candidate for Division 2? The second is that's three points in the bag, perhaps Division 1, although this may apply to ice hockey as well. Looking forward to the group's thoughts on these. So what do we think about those suggestions from Vancouver and Colorado? Well, on your bike is probably used in many different sports, isn't it? So as Sarah says, probably Division 2 in the dugout.

51:20Yeah, that's been a football phrase for years. Yeah, yeah. But you do get dugouts now in others, like in the cricket now. Yeah, in the limited overs there in the dugout. So it's probably Division 2, isn't it? Yeah. Okay. I've got one for you that you never hear anymore. The old onion bag. Stick it in the old onion bag. Yeah. That's not used anymore, is it? And also, that is football exclusive, isn't it? That is, yeah. So what division would that go in for you? Well, it would be Division 1. Do I get a credit for that? By the way, any suggestion I make John Murray, Ian Dennis will chuck it out anyway.

51:54He'll relegate it to the National League. Also, John in Leeds says, Hi guys, with FA Cup games now going straight to extra time, there's been ample opportunity for commentators to use the term tired legs. For example, there are some tired legs out there. Even though I suspect this will only make it into Division 2, I have a particular fondness for this phrase, as in my student days, if the game went to extra time, my mates and I would initiate the tired leg sweepstake. Everyone would chuck in a pound and then nominate the minute in which they thought the phrase tired legs would first be uttered.

52:31Whoever's guess was closest got to claim the prize pot. I like that. That is good, isn't it? That is very good. And also, there were lots of tired legs in the last 15 minutes in Buda this week. about three of their players went down with cramp handily when they've got a 3-1 lead against Manchester City. So tired legs also. There's also mysterious tired legs sometimes, I think, these days. So we are taking Elastico and Travella out of the glossary. Are we taking them out? Or should we leave them in there? Because a younger generation would recognise those. Well, we'll pose the question, should we take Elastico and Travilla out of the glossary?

53:14Certainly in Division 2, on their bike, in the dugout, tired legs. Division 1, Grubhunter and Onion Bag. Yeah.

53:27Hooray! Keep the glossary suggestions coming in. And remember, if you hear an unintended pub name in a commentary, send it to tcv at bbc.co.uk. voice notes on WhatsApp to 08000 289 369. And Ian, there's still plenty of time to complain about last week's clash of the commentators as well. Yeah, nobody's doing that. I've got to say, JP, it's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you very much for joining us. Love being on. That's it for this episode of the Football Daily. The next one will be an interview with Roberto Di Zerbi. And remember, you can find each and every episode of the Commentator's View by scrolling down your Football Daily feed.

54:04There's another story, if we can slip it in, about Bobby, I don't know if you've got time to slip it in. One great commentary memory for me was World Cup semi-final in Turin in 1990 and commentary positions were fairly snug and there were three of us at the game and we only had seats for two and next to us there was another commentary position, he had a spare seat. So I've turned to this fellow and I've gone, is there any way we can have a seat for our World Cup winning captain from 1966, Bobby Moore and this fellow just turned around to me and went, nine. and I didn't know he was German at the time.

54:38So Bobby, we managed to squeeze him in. But after the game, I turned to Bobby. England had gone out on penalties, and Bobby was crying. And that's what it meant to him all those years later, and I'll never forget that. He was so passionate about England. And then later on, we had to walk back into Turin, and we went through that square made famous in the Italian job film. And when we got to the square, all hell was broken loose. There's Italians fighting English, fighting Germans. and it's all kicked off. And I've gone, our hotel was diagonally across the square from where we came in. Myself, Bobby Moore and Mick Lowe's.

55:14And I said, we can't take him through here. This is too risky. Follow me, boys. Follow me, JP. Follow me, Michael, used to call him. So we went behind. We played the hero's role. We basically cowardly tucked him behind Bobby. And he started walking across the square, like Moses in the Red Sea. People were going, they were mid-punch, mid-right hook. and someone would go, oh, blimey, it's Bobby Moore. And they'd stand and let Bobby and the two of us go past. And then you turn around and they're thumping each other again as soon as he's passed. One of the most amazing things I've ever seen. He was a wonderful person to work with.

55:50Lovely. Should have had a job in football. Five Live Sports. Go to the end zone. Touchdown. NFL. Touchdown, Philadelphia. Great play design. I think you just have to go out there and be the best that you can be. We're going to go out there and lay it all on the line. 12-yard touchdown run. 105 yards on the return. Where speed, power and skill collide. And the Eagles have beaten the Chiefs convincingly in Super Bowl 59. Five lives for the NFL. Listen on BBC Sounds.