The Commentators' View: Stealing a march & John in the USA

0:00The Commentator's View on The Football Daily with Alistair Bruce Ball, John Murray and Ian Dennis. Hello, welcome to the Football Daily. I'm John Murray and this is the Commentator's View, where we five live commentators talk football, our adventures and the language behind the beautiful game. Alistair Bruce Ball and Ian Dennis are here. Hello to you. Hello from Washington, D.C., which I know, Ian, you don't like it when I say where I am, but that is where I am. It's an inescapable fact. I am in Washington, D.C. And also, I know you don't like it when I wish you happy birthday, but happy birthday.

0:39Happy birthday, John. Thank you very much. And this probably is slightly misleading because when I guess the majority of people actually listen to this, the World Cup draw will have happened. So you're going to be commentating on it, Ian, from the UK end. So on the business part of it, you'll be commentating on it where I'll be sweeping up everything that happens before and after. interviewing the movers and shakers. I have a question, John. Is there, over there in Washington, D.C., is there more of a frenzy about the World Cup draw and the excitement of that, or about your birthday? At the moment, my birthday, because as I speak to you, I've really, I've not long been here, and I've actually only just seen the place in daylight.

1:28So I'm not able to answer that question, but I will be by the time I appear on Five Live later in the day. Here's a serious question for you both. Are you excited about the World Cup draw? Are you excited to be there, John, and see the names come out? Well, as you both know, I do love a draw, and the World Cup draw is a really special occasion because it's the World Cup. You know, it is the sort of, it's the event that really has captured the imagination probably of most people who are interested in football. and you know I see it in Thomas Tuchel when we spoke to him last month you know when you talked about the draw you know there's genuine excitement for what it's going to be like and it really opens the way towards the tournament next summer when we when we find out really the nuts and bolts and okay we won't know some of the playoff teams but generally you know the groups will be quite clear won't they can I just say when you say that I love a draw you don't love a draw that much because you were given a choice of doing the draw or then doing the interviews in Washington, and you chose the latter.

2:32If you loved doing the draw, you'd be in Salford and I'd be in Washington. I didn't say I loved doing the draw. I loved the draw. I loved the draw process. Right, okay. In answer to your question, Ali, I'm a little apprehensive. Obviously, when this goes out, we'll have known the draw, but getting my head around the various permutations is a bit of a head-scratcher. Yeah, I mean, commentating on a draw is an unusual thing to do. I mean, we do it occasionally, don't we for the big tournaments but it's not something we often do and there are you know once you you obviously because it's a draw don't know which names are coming out when you're gonna have reams of information about different matchups and countries and groups and whatever so that there is a lot to get your head around there yeah i might actually put on social media at some point all my prep that i've done for the draw so keep your eyes peeled and also where i'll be post draw is an extraordinary experience because, and this will be it with bells on because it's a 48-team World Cup, all the coaches, so we go into the interview area and all of the coaches are circulating around there.

3:35So some of the biggest names in football are, you know, you are shoulder to shoulder with them and there is that scenario whereby you don't know who's going to be brought to speak to you next. So, you know, that is also one of the adrenaline-filled parts of the day. I wonder if Thomas Tuchel will wish you a happy birthday. I doubt it. Unless you've told him, he won't know. And by that stage, it won't be anymore anyway. And I know you're a big fan of making it into a bigger event than just the actual day, but I prefer to keep it to the day. Yeah. John, you'll know because you have a bit of German.

4:13It's Geburtstag is birthday. Geburtstag. How do you say happy birth? Is it frillisher? No. Is it gluck? Do they wish you luck on your birthday? Is that it? Do they do that? I'll have to find out from Thomas, won't we? By the way, John, I'm just reading the script here before we go any further. We do have a special birthday surprise for you. How do you?

4:38Hooray! Well, I'm touched. so and it has been a busy week of football hasn't it with Ali you've been in the presenter's chair yes some dramatic matches and you've also been back to the Westfield shopping centre yeah that gave me some jitters so I was there last Sunday to do West Ham Liverpool and for regular listeners of the podcast they'll probably know what we're talking about but the last time I was there so park at Westfield shopping centre for West Ham home games and the last time I was there was when there was the big fire in the car park and I couldn't get my car out after the game and then I disappeared off to the Ryder Cup and couldn't get my car out for three weeks and eventually got there and it was all marooned on its own behind loads of fencing and gates and whatever and and drove up to the old um the barrier where you come out of the car park and It asked me to pay£490, which obviously didn't do.

5:35So it's the first time I've been back there since. But that went without a problem. I saw Alexander Isak score his first Premier League goal for Liverpool and take it really well. We obviously dealt with the surprising team news that day that Mo Salah didn't start for Liverpool, then didn't start again against Sunderland. But I had the feeling, John, during the game actually, Liverpool got the win at West Ham, but the performance was not convincing. They didn't play particularly well and again that sort of borne through a little bit with what happened to them at home against Sunderland at Anfield.

6:08And Ian, last Saturday I was listening to you when I was on my way down south with what turned out to be actually quite a dramatic match, Manchester City and Leeds United. Yeah, at half-time it felt very routine. Manchester City were extremely comfortable leading 2-0 and then the introduction of Dominic Calvert-Lewin transformed the game. And again, I guess we saw a little bit of Manchester City with the jitters and the wobbles. What happened then against Fulham in midweek because Leeds were able to come back at them, drew to 2-2 and then Foden scored an injury time winner. And then obviously they were cruising against Fulham, weren't they?

6:48And then once again, they just took their eye off the ball and Fulham almost produced an incredible fight back. It actually brought back memories, Ali, of that game that you did at Craven Cottage against Juventus. Yeah. You know, with what they were looking to try and replicate with all those goals. But so Manchester City defensively not convincing at this stage. And I have to confess, I will put my hand up. I thought when Leeds had that spirited comeback that got nothing out of it, I thought next thing that'll happen, typical for a struggling team is, they'll then have big hopes going into the match with Chelsea and they'll lose.

7:26But in actual fact, the very opposite happened. And what an important night that was for Leeds. And Chelsea, of course, who I'd seen on the Sunday, I think the same applied as we discussed after that match. It had been such a big match and a big week for Chelsea, you know, to have the big win against Barcelona, then the big match against Arsenal. We said the same thing about Arsenal as well, coming into that match, having played Tottenham and Bayern Munich the two matches before, and missing Caicedo as well, that seems to have taken its toll on them. Leeds were impressive, actually. They really went for Chelsea right from the first whistle, got the early goal.

8:05Tanaka then scored a fine second. It was a deserved win for Leeds. And now they go into the Liverpool game, and you know about Liverpool's frailties on the road, looking for back-to-back wins. And I always think down at the bottom of the table, for any side that is trying to avoid relegation, if you can get those back-to-back wins, and they only did it once when they were in the Premier League last time, and funnily enough, it included a game against Liverpool, but if they can achieve those back-to-back victories, that will give them such a huge lift, bearing in mind that many people, and I included, didn't give them much hope of getting anything from teams such as Manchester City, Chelsea and Liverpool for such a tough week.

8:43If they can then get, whether a point or three points against Liverpool, I think that would be a good return for them. Just a very quick one on the title race as well, John. I think what's so, you know, just on the top two in the title race at the moment, they're so different, aren't they, as teams and the way they're going about it this season. In terms of, you wouldn't see Arsenal involved in a 5-4 win at Craven Cottage. That is not Arsenal. That's not how they go about it under Mikel Arteta. But if Manchester City are going to try and chase them down and, well, I say chase them down, they're close enough at the moment, but they're clearly going to do it a very different way because they're going the will score more than you route at the moment.

9:19So that contrast between those twos is really good at the moment, I think. Well, you mentioned Leeds-Liverpool, Ian, and this is going to be slightly confusing, isn't it, for listeners? It's going to be a little bit like me being here in America where we haven't had our breakfasts yet and you've probably both had your lunch. And that's what's going to happen to listeners this weekend because the three o 'clock commentary on Five Live, Ali, you're doing it. with Francis Benali, Bournemouth against Chelsea. So that's on 5 Live, as ever. These days, there is a choice of commentary at 3 o 'clock on Saturday afternoon, and that is Tottenham-Brenford on Sports Extra.

9:58And you, Ian, have slipped into the 5.30 slot. When was the last time you commentated on a Saturday 5.30? Not for a long time. That's what I thought. I suspect that'll be raising a Chapman eyebrow. he'll be wondering why that's happening and also importantly Mr Chris Waddle is with you Looking forward to that I message him on a regular basis and I knew he was penciled in for that game probably before I knew I was doing it so yeah I'm looking forward to seeing the Waddle Did you see the interview with Roberto Deserbi a couple of weeks ago I did, ahead of the Marseille Newcastle match Yes I sent it to him Yes, well, so did probably half of the Western world.

10:48But it did say, Ali, I don't know if you saw it, but it deserved to be talking about the influence of Chris Waddle on his footballing life. Oh, I see. So, obviously, as Marseille coach, so not just talking about the sort of Waddle effect in Marseille, but actually on Deserby himself. Yeah. Not to undersell our game on Saturday, so Bournemouth Chelsea's the three o 'clock, which I'm doing with Franny Benali, but I think Leeds-Liverpool, just looking at the fixtures over the weekend, that looks like the game of the weekend to me in terms of the match-up. Leeds coming off the back of that win and Liverpool still in their struggles and the atmosphere you know you're going to get there on a Saturday night.

11:25I think that is the game of the weekend. And still with Arna Slott under scrutiny as well. I mean, they tried their might to get a late winner after equalising and Wurtz, I think, thought that he probably scored his first goal but it took a deflection, didn't it? so it went down as an own goal. But I think Sunderland have been a breath of fresh air to the Premier League this season. They really have. And Leeds United have still given themselves a fighting chance of staying up with Sunderland. So those are Saturday's matches on Sunday on Five Live at 2 o 'clock, Brighton against West Ham, which will be Jonathan Pearce and Danny Gabidon.

12:01You should mention Jonathan will be doing the commentary on the World Cup draw on the television on the BBC, while Ian will be commentating on it on 5 Live on Drive. So Jonathan at Brighton on Sunday. And then at 4.30, Fulham against Crystal Palace with Conor McNamara and Rob Green. And then we've got European commentaries next week as well on 5 Live. So Inter-Liverpool, Ian, you're off to Italy with Stephen Warnock. Tottenham Slavia Prague is going to be on Sports Extra on Tuesday night. Conor McNamara and Andy Reid. and I've got the small matter of Real Madrid-Manchester City next week with Jonathan Woodgate.

12:41So going back to Madrid with Jonathan Woodgate, which is always an enjoyable thing to do. Woody might say to you, Feliz Cumpleaños. And he also might say Feliz Navidad, of course, at this time of the year. And I must mention as well, and if Herr Chapman is listening, this will cause him to raise an eyebrow because I have done quite a lot of schmoozing this week because I was at the Football Supporters Association Awards dinner on Monday night, which was an excellent occasion, you know, tremendous. And really, I find it incredibly uplifting, that event, just because of the way that supporters of many of the clubs, you know, way down the pyramid in some cases, and, you know, the men's and the women's game get a little bit of a moment in the spotlight.

13:31and it does remind me, that event, about really what it's all about. I don't think Herr Chapman would be surprised to hear that you've been schmoozing. I think you're very good at schmoozing. Yeah, well, it takes one to know one. Now, we always love your WhatsApps and voice notes to 08000 289 369, emails to tcv at bbc.co.uk and we have had all sorts of unintended pub names from sports commentary this week and some especially good ones as well. Last week's highlights were the swivelling Gakpole, the stumbling Williams and the flapping duck from the Ashes cricket commentary on BBC Sounds. And just to explain, these are phrases used in any commentary that you hear, not just ours, any that you hear that could be pub names.

14:23We also mentioned the draft excluder and Steve in Hitchin writes in, Dear fine gents, surely the draft excluder would have to be a pub or bar that only sold bottled beers. Excluding draft. Matt in Gloucestershire has alerted us to something Five Life Boxing's Steve Bunce said about Rick Edwards in last week's episode. I've told Rick if he shows up without socks on, which is, you know, which is, you know, which is fabulously popular at the moment, I will be bringing a pair of socks for him to put on. I'm not doing boxing shows with a sockless man. Let's put it that way. Matt says the sockless man.

15:03Can just imagine the logo, a bare ankle in some suede boat shoes. I think this would be a central London pub for city types. Very good, Matt. Yeah, very definitely in the metropolis, the sockless man. We miss that. So when I listened back last week and then put it in the group text chat that we have, we miss that. Steve's saying it, the sockless man. Yeah, we miss him all the time, don't we? You know, our listeners are listening out for them. I think we're just talking normally. Well, the worst one we missed was the easy tap in. Yeah. Also, by the way, and I should have put it in the commentary, I only mentioned it after the goal had gone in, but the second goal that Liverpool scored at West Ham on Sunday was scored by a swiveling Gakpo.

15:48He chested the ball down, swiveled, and smashed it home. And I didn't have the presence of mind to say scored by the swiveling Gakpo, which is annoying. Jacob, Crystal Palace fan in Dubai, says, To the club of commentators, I've been trying to come up with a football expression which I think would fit into both Division I of your great glossary of football commentary and be a great pub name. I've thought of one and can't keep it to myself anymore so I'm really hoping it hasn't been mentioned previously the manager bounce I can't think, says Jacob of any other sport that it would be used in as no other sports feel the need to chop and change managers quite so regularly and I'm sure this would be a great pub, maybe nightclub name not sure what it would look like but for some reason I can visualise it being in Watford.

16:42All the best. Shake it back. Which is a fact. Actually, I think surely it should be the new manager bounce. Yeah, definitely. The new manager bounce, definitely. But Watford, that's a good suggestion. Very good. We've had this from Brentford Fanny Inn. Love the podcast. Listen to it on my Tuesday morning run. Just heard a pub name during a goal update from Forest. You call for goals, Ali. We have one for Brighton. Brighton deserved opener for the visitors scored by Maxine De Kuyper. Well found inside the penalty area, unmarked. And he slid it beyond the sliding cells. Forest 0, Brighton 1. Sliding cells, Chris Coles with the goals.

17:21Half-time at the London Stadium. Clinton Morrison is here. West Ham 0, Liverpool 0. So Chris Coles said the ball went in under the sliding cells. That's a great name for a pub, says Ian in the Brentford fan. And it was actually Chris, wasn't it? who came up with the Reckless Pulp as well, which is one of my favourites of recent times. And also, the mention of Clinton there takes us on to the next one. So Clinton was sitting next to me at West Ham. He was also sitting in the studio with me on Tuesday night as we went round the grounds. And Rams fan Liz has got in touch. Dear TCV, I'm slightly alarmed by the fact that everything I hear on the radio nowadays is turning into an unintended pub name in my head.

18:03so I was listening to Ali talking to Chris Warburton on 5 Live Drive ahead of the Newcastle Tottenham match that night when Chris made reference to Clinton Morrison I like Clinton a lot actually I'm a Clinton fan he is good I bet he is smells amazing by the way I've just greeted him he smells incredible good cologne is it oh amazing yeah like a cedar wood like one of those many stuffings you were talking about on Christmas Day the sort of waft the vaft of apricot I'll let you go and take in the scent of Morrison and have a good one Ali good to see you Liz has actually gone for the scented Morrison which I think is really good what a lovely little indie wine bar this could be there could even be an exclusive chain of them in all the football town cities that Clinton has played in or played for with the flagship bar being at Crystal Palace wouldn't Clinton just relish being on the pub sign outside the scented Morrison.

19:02Although when I was on my way to the Football Supporters Association Awards the other night, I went down a little street that when I heard that, I thought I could definitely see the scented man on that street, probably a couple of doors down from the Sockless Man, the scented Morrison. James from Suffolk says, in the TV coverage of Spurs against Fulham, there was mention of the covering Udogi, which sounds like the name of a pop-up gazebo in a pub garden. The covering Udogi. Thank you, James. Buki in Essex. Hi, gents. Love the pod. I heard Ian Dennis mention the dancing Doku during commentary of the recent Manchester City against Leeds game on Five Live.

19:42And later on, Chris Sutton was trying to get in on the act as well. Doku tries to get round the back. Dan James was watchful. Needed the touch off his head to concede the corner kick. A dangerous Doku behind Daniel James. Good little flick, but they've got a corner to defend. Leeds United before half-time. Was that your attempt at an unintended pub name? On the Commentators View podcast, the Dangerous Doku. Corner is taken short from the Dangerous Doku. Where is the final ball? And it comes now. Oh, and I thought the header was goal bound by O 'Reilly. Did it hit him on the shoulder? What a chance for O 'Reilly six yards out.

20:19All whipped in from the Dangerous Doku. Should have scored. Now that goes down as an intended pub name. What about the in-for-me in Dennis? behave. Here is Justin. There is the half-time whistle. Saved by the bell, I think you'll find. You also said the final ball there. As the cross came in, the final ball is another one that's just suddenly popped in. Chris was joining in on the Informian Dennis. He was irked though last week. Well, the reason that he said the Informian Dennis and loose lips sink ships because our producer Nathan had sent him a picture of the AI bar sign from last week. But also Chris was irked because I must have mentioned the TCV podcast three times during the first half.

21:09He went, you've got to keep on mentioning your podcast. There are other podcasts available, you know. So I was getting under his skin, which is never a bad thing. No, that is never a bad thing. And actually, Paul in South Croydon says the Dangerous Doku is not so much a pub name, but maybe the name of the house shot served in that pub, which is a good line. What about Natan, I think it will be, do you think? In Haifa, in Israel? Dear TCV, I caught an unintended pub name when Fulham scored their first against Manchester City. Very clever header, actually. The ball clipped up from the right-hand side.

21:46Smith-Rowe's probably about 10 yards out when he meets that, but he manages to guide it across goal beyond the stranded Donnarumma, who didn't really move the Manchester City goalkeeper. I can see the pub sign for that. Donnarumma standing, feet apart, hands apart, looking up, eyes looking into the top right corner as that ball out of shot disappears over his head. And Natan says, I think that would be a pub on a lonely country road that might even have a couple of rooms to stay in if your car breaks down in the middle of nowhere and you're stranded. maybe the pub manager would even be a car mechanic the stranded donnarumma oh yes is this that road where the stranded donnarumma is i do quite like though now that the correspondence not only is coming up with suggestions but also ideas of where the actual pub is imagining you know the the scenarios and the descriptions of whether these unintended pubs could be around the country or indeed the world.

22:52And Clare in Germany has spotted something from a recent Champions League debrief episode. Bayern couldn't cope with a Saka corner as they conceded the first timber glancing ahead past the grasping Neuer. Vince and Kompany side were level 10 minutes... Clare suspects some deliberate pub naming there. No, I deny that, emphatically, on this occasion. But last week you did admit to doing it deliberately, didn't you? Yes, I did. Which one was that? It was the Mozambique nutmeg at Sunderland. I did do that one deliberately, the Mozambique nutmeg. So Claire's accusation does have a degree of substance.

23:32It does have an element of truth in it. George in Clapham says, Hello, gents. A very belated Ashes entry for the UPN segment. That's the first time anyone's called it that. But unfortunately, didn't get voiced, but was hanging in the air as Brendan Doggett was bowling to Ben Duckett. Now, this is my favourite email of the week, this one, with regard to the pub names, because George says, how about the Doggett and Duckett? Come on, Agus, shrug emoji, enjoying the pod and all of your radio work. What a great call that is. That is brilliant. And similarly, actually, Vipul from Milton Keynes has got in touch.

24:18Love the pod and the humour the three of you have, which feels like you could all be sat in the easy tap in whilst recording this pod. Speaking of pubs and pub names, I was watching the first Ashes Test and I saw Brendan coming in to bowl to Ben. This could be a sister branch to the traditional dog and duck, exactly with the dog it and duck it. So Vipal on exactly the same lines there. Also with Rob Edwards having recently rejoined the Premier League as the new Wolves manager, I thought he has a canny resemblance to the Brighton manager, Fabian Herzler. thoughts keep up the good work. You see that?

24:51Still not as good as, and I feel that now he's come back into our domain, he looks even more like the person than ever before, is Norwich City's Philippe Clermont, who I think looks so much like Dan Rowan, the BBC sports editor. I think they are so similar. Yeah, yeah, definitely, yeah. Yes, I would agree with that. No, no, I would agree with that. I'm not quite so sure about Rob Edwards and Fabian Herzl. No. I think Rob Edwards has got his facial expression always reminds me a little bit of the guy who used to play some Mothers Do Have him, Michael Crawford. Michael Crawford. Just he's around, if you look at sort of like the lower half of his face.

25:35Yeah. Well, maybe one day he'll be interviewed by Betty Glover. Ooh, Betty.

25:44but that's not one for the younger listeners um anyway if you spot an unintended pub name in any sports commentary do let us know tcv at bbc.co.uk or whatsapps to 08000 289 369 and i am going to say it i'm going to float it now because i mentioned it to you because i was driving in leicestershire this week as well. And I drove past a pub, I think it might have been a pub stroke hotel, called the Italian Greyhound. And I thought that could provide us with another twist here, because I thought that's the kind of pub name that could actually be the nickname for a football player. And I thought, I wonder if, and I couldn't actually think of anyone that actually fits the nicknamed the Italian Greyhound but there's bound to be one and I thought I wonder if our listeners might have spotted other pub genuine pub names and where they are and the players that those pub names could apply to are you suggesting that Italy has not produced a quick player hmm it did get me thinking though about Italian speedsters and I I couldn't I couldn't particularly come up with one.

27:01Well, that was the same. I mean, the only one, so I stuck it on the group, but it was more because of build and look was Inzaghi. It was Filippo Inzaghi. But he wasn't really a greyhound, wasn't he? He wasn't, no, he wasn't. I was just thinking more long and lean. Yeah. But, yeah. But, I mean, it would have to be a winger, wouldn't it? The Italian greyhound would have to be a winger. Yeah. Remember when Italy played England in the Nations League a few years ago, Nonto was playing. Yeah. He was quite nippy then, wasn't he? He was nippy, but he's not a greyhound. No. He's not an Italian greyhound.

27:33I did think of him, Ian, but I dismissed that. And that's build, because he's short and stocky and speedy, isn't he? And I think to be a greyhound, you've got to be taller and long legs and wiry, I think. Yeah, that's what I thought. Yeah. So anyway, we'll leave it with the listeners. TCV at BBC.co.uk. WhatsApp's to 08000 289 369. So that is the UPN for this week. Now, Ian, it is time for COTC on the TCV. Welcome to The Team Behind the Team, a new podcast series in partnership with The Open University, where we'll be showcasing the people, the tools and the techniques that help athletes and teams reach elite level.

28:21Like all elite sports, it's a pyramid and everybody's trying to get to the top. It's not just my vision. It's a shared vision amongst the team. What is this? This is not the way I see the game. The team behind the team with Katie Smith. In partnership with the Open University. Listen on BBC Sounds. The Commentators' View on the Football Daily with Alistair Bruce Ball, John Murray and Ian Dennis. Clash of the Commentators, where two of us take turns to answer a question and give as many correct answers as we can in 30 seconds. We've all played the same number of games because I beat John last week on the recent goal scorers against Liverpool.