The Commentators’ View: Ticket prices & ‘needing snookers’

26:02John Hunt:It's hugely enjoyable. I said at the very start, you were backed by popular demand because there were so many people who got in touch with us to say that they enjoyed you when you were on talking ahead of the Cheltenham Festival. with that in mind in particular more to the actual storytelling around the the horses does your approach change for the national because as you say the Cheltenham festival is the is the pinnacle and and you there's a lot of horse racing aficionados who will be listening to you whereas with a national you're going to get your your grandmother who will always back you know horse number seven come what may so does your approach around the storytelling alter at all i think it suffers in a way it's a really really good point yeah at cheltenham you're dealing with like hard back you're aware that we're always speaking to a general audience but at cheltenham they're tuning into our coverage it's because they want to hear who's willing to try and hurdle and did Nicky Henderson superstar managed to maintain his unbeaten record but this weekend yeah you're right it's the once a yearers who are potentially tuning in often of course it's um it goes on world service as well not always but often and that adds an added dimension as well and I think you have to sort of soften the storytelling a little bit you know Rachel Blackmore for example when she won in 2021.

27:29John Hunt:It was a great story. Rachel's now retired. She's married. She's expecting a child. But the whole point of saying all of that is that her new husband, Brian Hayes, he has a ride in the race as well this weekend. And there's a small chance that he could win aboard Spanish Harlem, who is owned by the sponsors of the Grand National Randock. So just got to try and weave in those little tales tales that might just capture the air and and they're a little bit softer the stories than the than the hard who won what and why john from a from a very sort of commentary nerdy technical aspect how do you identify i get it when they're running down the home straight you can see the colors clearly you can say that guy has that color cap all the rest of it the track at entry is enormous and there are points in that track where the horses will be running away from you and and And although their colors, their shirt and their sleeves and their hat are all different colors to help you identify, when they're going away from you, the jockeys are all standing up in their stirrups.

28:38You can kind of just see the back of their jodpers, right? You're seeing their backsides. How do you identify who's who when they're that sort of distance away and the body shape isn't really showing you the colors?

28:51John Hunt:That's another great point. I mean, sometimes a jockey can fall off his horse and it might be several seconds before you get a clear view as to who he or she is. And you're so right, Conor, that sometimes these tumbles can be so quick and so dramatic that often all you're aware of is a pair of black boots flying in the air in the wrong direction. and and you but you just have to take a deep breath i think and and just say look i don't know exactly who that is right now but in three seconds i'll get a clearer view we've got an amazing pair of almost like navel binoculars up in the commentary box there's an extraordinary piece of of sophisticated kit so you can see all the way around the the track which is sort of two miles long um with those but you just exercise a little bit of patience the only thing with that is and i'm sure you'll all appreciate this anytime you're taking your eye off the action to look at something else is a very nervous moment because what if whilst you're looking for jockey whose boots you identify but you don't know anything about more about him all the time you're looking for that something else might be happening in the race as well so there's a there's a sort of anxiety associated with it but you've got to control that anxiety and ultimately if you don't manage to identify who that one was who fell then look is it is it the end of the world you know we've all got some high professional standards haven't we and we all want to do everything right all the time but sometimes if you miss something you miss something and you know i don't i used to beat myself up terribly about that i don't anymore i get asked i'm sure Connor and Ian get asked as well, how do you remember 22 people?

30:35How do you remember 22 names? If you're doing Premier League football week in, week out, just over time, like with watching any team, you learn players' numbers. I'm a numbers guy. I learn players by their number. I can memorise a number better. For example, I'll have my team sheet written out. Yeah, I remember my team sheet, have it written out numerically, one to whatever number, 99. Connor, you're a formations guy, aren't you? I've seen your match notes. which you put them on a piece of paper in the formation they are in. Mentally, I can't compute that during a game, so I have it all written out.

31:09So, Joe, what's your style? What's your prep? Like today, you've obviously got a race, but you've got to worry about tomorrow. How on earth do you go about, particularly with the national, 34 runners, riders, different colour horses, different coloured silks I appreciate, and different coloured numbers that they wear on the horse as well. How does that all work for you?

31:27John Hunt:I think preparation is similar insofar as this potential line-up for Grand National has been common knowledge for a few weeks now, give or take a few horses that drop by the wayside and one or two additions come in. So, you know, in terms of prep, you can start that a couple of weeks in advance quite comfortably. And, you know, I suppose it's familiarity. You know, if you wanted to, I am Maximus, you could look at all of his runners, three runs this year. You could look back at his Grand National win from two years ago, and you could do all that pretty comfortably with the right websites, etc., within 10 minutes.

32:04John Hunt:And there you get a pretty good idea of sort of his running style and the colours. So I think it's the prep, not a last minute thing. That's the thing. It's something you build up over a period of time. You guys will be no doubt involved in cup finals and playoff finals this spring. And, you know, I'm absolutely sure your prep for those big events does not start the night before. And it's exactly the same with with horse racing in the Grand National. It's a good point, John. I recently did a social media media video about how commentators prepare. And I showed, as Mike said, my sort of way to do the formations.

32:39And in the comments and replies, someone said, oh, you could do that on AI. You could get AI to update all your stats for you. And exactly what John said is, no, no, like it's the doing of the prep. that's what's the study that's what puts it in your head it's not so much what you read in the day it's the physical act that you had to go and look it up and write it down and then as you're doing it you're associating that player with these details I think that very much resonates what you're saying there John and one other thing about identification the famous rugby commentator Bill McLaren he had a brilliant technique where he had a pack of playing cards and say it was England against Wales on the back of the card he would write a white number one, a white number two, a white number three.

33:22And on other words, he would go a red number one, a red number two, a red number three. And on the flip side of the card, he would write the players' names. So then he would shuffle the deck and he would just pop down red seven and then he'd say the name of whoever number seven for Wales is. And he'd shuffle again and go white 14 and he'd say the name of whoever was number 14 for England. But by doing that, his brain was just totally... So during the game, if England number six makes a run forward, he instantly has who the player was. and I always thought that was a brilliant technique. Great idea.

33:51England number six, jack of clubs. Yeah, exactly.

33:55John Hunt:Joker. You know, just to give you an insight into the national this year in particular, owner JP McManus has six runners in the race. His racing colours are green and yellow hoops, which are iconic colours. They stand out beautifully on any day, whether it's a sunny day or a miserable rainy day. They're great racing colours, But every horse, every jockey to distinguish the runners has to have a different cap. And that's where I have my little struggles year on year when you have an owner like that with multiple entries, realizing which horse has got which cap. And I just I have to do that mentally.

34:32John Hunt:I can't rely on the paper necessarily because, say, the paper blows away, etc. It doesn't happen ever like that. But just say that happens. So Johnny, for example, is in the Grand National. Now, Johnny, that's my name, obviously, John. Johnny Who, I find it easy horse to remember. And it just so happens that my favourite colour is blue. And Johnny Who this year, by complete coincidence, has a blue cap on. So I'm really cool with Johnny. I'm not going to get him mixed up with any of the other McManus runners. Another one of them, I am Maximus, is the number one hope for that owner. And he will wear the white cap.

35:07John Hunt:And I always think of I am Maximus, the number one hope from the McManus horses, always wears a white cap. So there you go. There's six runners from McManus. I've got two of them in my head straight away. Well, I've already backed Johnny Who, so I hope that Johnny Who is... I hear Johnny Hunt calling Johnny Who home. I'll be on Sports Extra, but on my way home, I listen back to the race in its entirety through BBC Sounds. So how are you feeling about your bill of in West Ham? And before you go, I need to get a tip off you as well. That would be remiss of me. I suppose the tip is easy. Panic attack is going to be my fancy.

35:47John Hunt:But I like an outsider called Quidah Bourbon as well. It's about 33-1 for Willie Mullins. And I think that horse has been underestimated. The much more complex question about West Ham United. I was really upbeat, but I went to Villa Park away. They were really poor. And then the Leeds Cup tie. That first half was an absolute stinker as well. And we nearly pulled off a nice comeback, didn't we? So massive game this weekend, obviously, against Wolverhampton. I don't know. I was really confident until the Villa and Leeds games, and I'm less so now. But if you ask Leeds fans, if you ask Forest fans, if you ask Spurs fans in particular, how nervous they are.

36:26John Hunt:They're just the same, aren't they? So it's tight and it's amazing fun, isn't it? Great drama. Well, appreciate you joining us, John, and go well at Aintree. Thank you, guys. That was John Hunt and more from John on the Let's Go Racing John Hunt episode of the Commentator's View on the Football Daily Feed from early March. You'll be able to find that.

37:06John Hunt:It's a fourth week and it's the huge one. Jeez. Settle down, tough. Sorry, man. Cricket on Five Live Sport. Oh, I'm living every ball of this. Listen on BBC Sounds.

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38:26John Hunt:The commentator's view on the Football Daily. Listen on BBC Sounds. TCV at bbc.co.uk. The WhatsApps, the voice notes to 08000 289 369. And Paul in Sydney has sent us this. Hi there, TCV team. Your discussions about word clashes, check penalty, penalty check, reminded me about some word clashes here in the National Rugby League. Back in 2014, I think, the South Sydney Rabbitohs, the Bunnies, regularly lined up with both winger Lottie Takiri and halfback Luke Keery. More than once, I recall the ABC radio commentators having to say, Keery to Takiri, and occasionally, Takiri to Keery. Quite a mouthful.

39:17John Hunt:Thanks. I can imagine it was quite a mouthful. But those things, I'm sure you guys find it, it gets in your head sometimes, doesn't it? And particularly when you're, OK, those guys are kind of similar, so don't get them wrong. But because you're thinking of it so much, when one guy has the ball, you're thinking of the other guy. So it definitely can play tricks at your times. We've had, talking about ticket prices earlier, this is from Jamie. Hi TCV, as a regular listener and long-suffering Gillingham supporter, I couldn't help but notice something John said in a recent episode which resonated with me.

39:49When discussing his occasional visits to support his local team, John mentioned the ticket prices of some League 2 games and how he felt they were often overpriced. I must say I agree with John on this. So when On The Beach Gilles released tickets of our upcoming away game at Salford City on Saturday, I was rather taken aback to see that they're being sold for£1.40 with Salford celebrating the city's 100th anniversary. They're£1.40 because back in 1926, that was the equivalent cost of a ticket. I think Salford should be commended for this initiative, especially during times of such economic hardship.

40:28Unfortunately, I myself won't be able to get to Salford as I'm down in Brighton that weekend aiming to complete my first marathon. No doubt after finishing the marathon I will quite literally be on the beach. And in fact, that Salford-Gillingham game is not surprisingly is a sellout. It's interesting, Jamie. Jamie makes great valid points there but had to get the mention in about doing the marathon. There's an old expression about how do you know someone went to Harvard? And the answer is they tell you. It's like, how do you know someone's running a marathon? They tell you. Yeah, best of luck.

41:03Surely on the beach can stick itself in the glossary as well, can't it? It's about this time of year we talk about teams being on the beach. Good show. Very good point. But also on that ticket price thing, well done Salford, because this is a clever opportunity, isn't it? You get new fans in, you have a good game. Maybe you get one or two back through the gate that might be, you know, Thinking, oh, Manchester United is too much to go and watch. Manchester City are too much to go and watch. Maybe if they're in this way of trying to find a new club. I know you don't really change allegiance to your club when you've picked your team as a kid, but maybe there is an opportunity for some football league clubs to look at this.

41:40If it goes well for Salford, those that are struggling for attendances want a few more through the gates. Price, going into economics, it's demand versus supply and price elasticity and stuff, but it may work for Salford, who don't have the biggest attendance in the Football League, and if they can entice a couple of others, fair play. Right, a couple of unintended pub names from Sport Commentary before we move on. Last time we had the hard-working Williams and the Cannon Inn. Tim in Nottingham has a pub name from the recent Fulham versus Burnley game. 60 seconds remaining of this first half. Walker lifts it downfield.

42:15A leaping bassy will head it out of play for a throw on this near side to the right. Tim says, I imagine the leaping Bassey to be a glitzy neon place in the heart of Cardiff City Centre. The highlight and main attraction being the twice-weekly Basseyoke night, when you'll see a steady queue of folks waiting for their moment to blast out the greatest hits of the local icon Shirley Bassey and other Welsh singing greats such as Tom and Alad Jones. You'll hear numerous renditions, all of dubious quality of classics such as Goldfinger, Diamonds Are Forever, Delilah, Walking in the Air, culminating in Ian's favourite, Big Spender.

42:58If you're going to go bassey, you've got to go big. You know what I mean? You can't just do some sort of, you've got to go Goldfinger or something, don't you? You've got to go right in there, yeah. The other pub name that we've had sent in is Kevin in Wichstable, who I think this is from the other night, PSGV Liverpool. I was listening, obviously doing the Barca game, but listening to you and Paul Robinson, doing the commentary, but being distracted at the same time, which has inadvertently given its name to a new pub, I think. So Voslai launches the ball into the penalty area. Sapanov has come a long way and he gathers it in with both hands.

43:36as it turns out that the person who mocked me for that large fly is quite jumpy as well. You jumped as high as Sapinoff did. That was, yes, I mean, it's still there as well, the horrible little creature. Look, there it is. What will you do with that?

43:51John Hunt:The horrible little fly. For me, that could be a tired old pub with rickety tables and chairs that's frequented by those small, nippy, fly-like forwards that tall centre-backs hate playing against, that run them in circles and do so in a very fly-like, menacing manner. Think Giannino and, of course, Gianfranco Zola. And sorry, John, when it comes to the clash of the commentators, I'm on Team Deno for that one. Thanks all. Kevin, Kevin, Kevin, Kevin, a voice of reason at long last. I was just about to actually dismiss your horrible little fly thing. I'd never, ever drink in there. But I tell you what, Kevin, after that parting shot, but it'll be happy hour all night for me and you in the horrible little fly.

44:40He knew his audience there. He knew who he was talking to. Talking of which, Brian in Austin in Texas has got in touch. I'm missing the popular Clash of the Commentators segment. I wonder if this has got anything to do with the recent injustice against John. Maybe he's refusing to participate as a result, putting the entire segment in jeopardy. Well, I lost your middle part of your point there, Brian in Austin, because I'm already sided with Kevin. But no, it is back because we're not going to comment on whether John is refusing to take part. He's not here. But we'll have a game anyway. And this is where the two of us take it in turns to answer a question and give as many correct answers as we can in 30 seconds.

45:25So I think the title's done and dusted. Kevin would agree to that in Whitstable. But we've got an exhibition match. So it's Connor against Mike. So who wants to go first? I'm dreading. This is the one part of this podcast I'm absolutely dreading. Connor, you can go first if you want. That's a point. You go first, mate. Connor, we're ready to go. Roberto De Zerbi has his first match in charge of Tottenham this weekend away to Sunderland. It's a two o 'clock commentary on Five Live. I want you to name any club he has managed or any manager he has succeeded. So any Roberto de Zerbe club that he's managed or a manager that he's come after.

46:10And your time starts now. Okay, we're close that he's managed. Marseille, Brighton. Was he Roma? I think he was Roma.

46:21Obviously Tottenham. Does that count? He hasn't had a match yet. So that's that. Then who's he taking over? Did he take over from Potter at Brighton? did he take oh did he take over from who's it at Marseille oh so annoying no I was struggling we will see whether that is good enough give Mike a wave hello you're back I'm back Mike on your TCV debut you're now making your first appearance in Clash of the Commentators so you know Paddy Keelty does beat the commentator on Saturday mornings on Five Live. My first two appearances on that were 3-0 defeats. So we'll see how you fare with this then. So you're actually doing the game for Roberto Di Zerbi's first match in charge of Tottenham.

47:15This is going to be even worse, isn't it? I want you to name any club he has managed and or any manager he has succeeded. So any club Roberto Di Zerbi has managed or any manager he's come after. And your time starts now. Sassuolo, Shakhtar Donetsk, Brighton, Marseille, Igor Tudor. Who did he succeed at Brighton? Graham Potter. Where else has he been? He's had an Italian team. He had an Italian fourth-tier side that began with the letter B, but I can't remember their name. Yeah, that'll do. That'll do. I think you've rinsed that I think you've run there what's funny though what made me laugh is that and we've mentioned this before actually you might have even been on Connor the current manager of Marseille is oh yes Habib Bey that's when you told your happy day story exactly yeah I haven't said Igor Tudor that's unbelievable there you go tap it in wow you did oh you said Potter yeah you said Potter so it's a winning start for Mike Mine 6-4 very impressive I'm never I'm never coming back on this podcast again I'm taking that win and retiring I think it's just isn't it that's the insight again to anyone who's wanting to be a commentator you've got to try and find the little story so knowing the situation that Spurs were in one of the things that I wanted to do was see how De Zerbi had started at every single club he'd ever managed.

49:04And actually, I think for the first four or five, he didn't win any of his first games in charge. Then at Brighton, he got the draw against Liverpool. He did well at Shakhtar. Marseille was off to a cracking start and it fell apart for him at the end. But it's just those little things that you pick and track. So what you're saying, Mike, is that you've spent the week studying the question that you've just answered. This is a bigger scandal than the John Murray clash of the commentators. but I've had more time on my hands than you, Connor, so I can say that I've just been geeking out all week, really.

49:36Yeah, he never managed Roma, but the club you were thinking of, Mike, was Benevento. That's it, yeah. He had a couple in Italy to begin with. And not that John ever listens back to any episode, whether he's in it or not, but the leaderboard still has me at the top 10 from 14. Right now for our great glossary of football commentary. As we add commentary terms and phrases to our collection, you can find the entire glossary in the episode description. So when you're listening to this episode of the podcast, just go down through the text that's on the screen and you'll see the entire glossary down there.

50:18Division one is for football exclusive terms. Division two is for terms used in football commentary, but that you will also hear in other sports. Previously, we added pile driver into Division 1 as a football exclusive term. However, Steve in Bury St. Edmunds says, Well, I don't have a dog to walk, but I frequently listen during my long Sunday runs. I almost tripped over my feet when you added pile driver to Division 1. Clearly, none of you were wrestling fans in your youth. On that, Nick in Bryant's Bottom in Buckinghamshire. The Piledriver is a deadly move in professional wrestling, so I feel this should relegate it to Division 2, which is, of course, the non-exclusive football terms.

51:05Lee and Wolverhampton. I'm afraid that, like Spurs, the glossary entry for Piledriver, which was Andrew Murray's suggestion, I must add, may have to be relegated. Unfortunately for me, in the late 80s, early 90s, my school friends would often try the Piledriver on me, much to my annoyance as it involved holding me upside down and trying to drop me on my head. Phil from Seattle says, unfortunately, Piledriver needs to suffer the same fate as my team, Port Vale, in heading to Division 2. All of my age will have watched wrestling every Saturday afternoon where the likes of the famous Mick McManus would drive his opponent onto the canvas.

51:45Scott in Wigan, no need for Cass to review, unlike John's class of the commentators by the sounds of it. pile driver is massive in wrestling namely Jerry the King Lawler and The Undertaker's famous move we've also had a picture sent in of it and if that's what was being tried on who was it? Liam Wolverhampton yeah I'm not sure I'm not sure that was wise Mike as a professional commentator would you like to describe the image you're looking at? I was worried describing the jockey's jodpers earlier on so best of luck with this this is two men one almost well he's jumping to the floor isn't he but in a seated position hugging the chest area of an upside down man who is effectively being drilled to the floor pile driven to the floor head first and yeah the more I look at that picture the more I'm glad I'm not Liam Wolverhampton well the thing is when Phil from Seattle said that every Saturday afternoon he'd watched the wrestling I was more of a grandstand man I never watched World of Sport.

52:49I ditched Dickie Davis. So I'd never actually heard of Piledriver because I'm not a wrestling fan. But clearly there are many of you who are, so therefore Piledriver is relegated. And another Phil in Singapore. Hi, commentators. A favourite of mine is they'll need snookers now, applied to a team who mathematically cannot get out of the relegation zone. Another Division II, perhaps, because the term is used in snooker. But that's similar to what you said, Mike, earlier about on the beach. These are the terms that come sort of like, and can only be used sort of like early April onwards. Yeah. The rugby union commentators, Connor, would say like, for example, sailor on the beach towards the end of a season?

53:35I can't really say. Yeah, it's an interesting one, isn't it? I mean, I'd almost think if Rory McIlroy was 12 shots clear in the Masters on Sunday, could he be on the beach, you know, just enjoying the closing stages of it. I've got a bit of an issue with the snookers, though. So they need snookers now. So in the game, where that comes from is that is that by just potting the balls available, it's not enough to win. You need your opponent to foul. But if you're mathematically can't get out of the relegation zone, it doesn't matter if other people drop points. You're down to sort of they'd need a points deduction for a financial irregality or something.

54:12But it doesn't quite work for me, that idea. you're either mathematically safe or not. You can't be saved by snookers in football, I don't think. Maybe we need a word with our colleagues at Radio Sheffield to see if they've used it with Sheffield Wednesday this season. Sheffield Wednesday needs snookers now. Maybe Leicester provided that briefly for them. But yeah, I was thinking the same thing. To need snookers is to need financial points deductions, isn't it? Or whatever. Which tends to not happen in the immediate... That's something that would affect next season or whatever. But yeah, for me, it just doesn't quite work.

54:43Yeah. we've had a voice note in from reese in london what i would like to add is sent into raptures

54:49John Hunt:now you can just imagine that last minute winner going in for a team and their fans losing all sense of control of their body and mind as the pure elation fills them up as the three points have been secured now i do think it can be used in other sports fandoms to describe the crowds going absolutely crazy however i think there's a nature to football fans that probably isn't reflected in other sports fans don't get me wrong when johnny wilkinson scored that drop kick and won england rugby world cup obviously the fans in the stadium were experienced some form of purulation but were they sent into raptures to the same degree as a 90th minute winner in football i'll let you guys decide middlesbrough fan anthony in sydney also says hi gents sending the crowd into raptures is something that I've never heard outside of a football game.

55:44What are your thoughts? I think, well, if we're going to go, the trouble is, and I'm always a stickler for the rules on these, if you talk about sport, you talk about life in general, I mean, you know, I think if you're a Taylor Swift fan and you go to a concert, maybe you were sent into raptures when you played the song that you like. There's definitely religious connotations, isn't there? People could be sent into raptures when they attend, if they're a believer in whatever they're believing in. But in terms of sport, I don't know. I mean, if Andy Murray wins Wimbledon were the crowd sent into Rapture, something they were waiting for so long.

56:19I don't know. I don't know. I feel it's a commonly enough used phrase, but that's my initial instinct anyway. What do you guys think? I don't think it's Division One. Mike? I would agree. I've just Googled the definition. To be sent into Raptures is filled with immense pleasure, excitement or ecstatic delight, which I think you do get in other walks of life, don't you? I think people who back the winner at Aintree in the Grand National might be feeling a bit rapturous as it's thundering home. So, in summary, Conor's put a question mark over needing snookers, sent into Raptures Division 2, Piledriver relegated to Division 2, on the beach Division 2, Therefore, there will be no hooray from John Murray today.

57:29the commentator's view by scrolling down your football daily feed congratulations on your success i will take that uh it was the perfect question that's what's called falling in your lap yes very much so very much so yeah hello i'm tyler west and i'm alfie watts and this is the detour

57:52John Hunt:the official companion podcast to race across the world this is the post episode checkpoint where you'll hear the latest chat around each episode from us and our race superfan special guests. Plus, I'll be joined each week by our resident travel expert, Alfie. That's you, man. I'll be revealing my optimal way to travel through each leg, including visits to all of those unmissable detours along the way. And we'll also have some not seen anywhere else exclusive content at the end of every episode. I cannot wait. The detour will land straight after each episode of Race Across the World. You can watch on iPlayer or listen on Sounds, where you'll also find extra bonus content.

58:26John Hunt:We'll see you then.

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