The Commentators' View: TikTok sensation & The Extra Touch

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0:59I'm very excited to announce this week we're going to be joined by a young football reporter who's a bit of a TikTok sensation on the pod later on. But that does come later after we've said hello to our two other TikTok sensations. John Murray and Ian Dennis, our football correspondent and senior football reporter, who we both find at Wembley because an England squad has been announced. More on that anon. How are you, chaps? Actually, you know, we are TikTok sensations because we do unknowingly appear on TikTok on the 5 Live BBC Sports Talk. We're up and on there, even though we are, perhaps, some of us, oblivious to that.

1:38Sensations quite strong, though, John, isn't it? It is strong, yeah. Before we get on to England, obviously there's been Champions League football this week. I was in Prague. You chaps stayed home as it were. We were just in Prague. Enjoyed it, John. I completely forgot. I don't know if you heard the... So it was the early kick-off on Tuesday. Yeah, I'm well aware it was the early kick-off. what are you saying that talk about ideal toastings an early kickoff in Prague mid-November I'd completely forgotten that I'd been to the stadium but two years ago to watch one of the best games I've ever commentated on which was West Ham winning a European trophy and the night before the game I was saying to Pat Pat Nevin who was with me I was saying uh Slavia Prague no I've never done them at home definitely been in Prague but I can't might yeah maybe an international game I've done there and Pat was saying oh I've been to this stadium I've been to this stadium we then got to the stadium and i worked out i had been there before to do the west ham game and it completely gone out of my head and pat had never been there before he'd been to the sparta stadium i've been there many times and also been to many different stadiums and so i can understand your confusion and even then the other night i was thinking was that the stadium where the cobra scored but i think it was wasn't it against england yeah yeah yeah yeah Did you chaps have to go in through the McDonald's like we had to go in through the McDonald's?

3:01Not that I recall. And I'm sure if anyone would remember that, it would be... What are you saying? I have been there and seen the changing of the garden. I know that you, Ali, engineer Mark and also producer Chris had never been to Pride before. And I saw them both the previous weekend. And I said, do go and see the changing of the garden. And I believe I heard you say that they did. They did. And Pat went with them. I was doing my notes and podcasting, so I didn't get to see that. Mark also succeeded. He was sent on a mission to come home with some Czech plum jam, which apparently is a bit of a speciality.

3:42So he was scouring the Czech supermarkets for plum jam. But he found some. I remember, you know, one of those brilliant, when the menu, the English translation is nothing. And I remember on a restaurant in Prague seeing the option of having either a bag of earth or cream of hypocrite. What did you go for? Well, it would be hypocritical of me. Yeah. Well, it's fun. I mean, they do like their, as you chaps will know from your travels, like if you, I mean, you can eat some fantastic food there, but they do like their meat, don't they? Yeah, it can be heavy, can't it? It can be a bit heavy, and it's a fairly tenuous link just to take it on to the experience inside the football stadium.

4:32So Arsenal were very good yet again. Another Champions League win, absolutely flying as they are in the Premier League. And they scored early in the second half to make it 2-0. And at that point, you're thinking, crikey, we've got 40 minutes of commentary here, and there's not much jeopardy in the game because Arsenal are so comfortable. What made the whole evening, but particularly that second half, still such a joy to commentate on was the support from the Slavia Prague fans. In terms of the actual definition of the word support, your team is getting stuffed. They've got absolutely no chance.

5:00And they were with them. The atmosphere inside the stadium throughout was brilliant. But the reason I'm sort of linking to me was commentating on the game. I suddenly turned my head in the last 10 minutes. I hadn't even noticed them do it. But you know sometimes at Newcastle you'll get 10 fans, 15 fans will all take their tops off and they'll be dotted around the same. The entire end to our left-hand side, But there must have been, I don't know, 8 ,000 chaps in there. All had their tops off. And I'd not noticed them take them off. And then I turned to my left and suddenly, it was, as I think I called it, it was like a wall of flesh.

5:34It was revolting. It was a great line in the commentary. Gabriel plays back to David Rye. We're in the 90th minute of the game. And now, all the shirts have come off from the fans away to our left. They are brilliant, aren't they? They have put on some show tonight. Really surprising. I mean, I'm not sure how delightful that is, but it's great. I mean, that end, I would say 75 % of it are now topless. That is a stunning display of Czech flesh. And by the way, it isn't roasting here. I've got the gloves on, and a jacket and three layers. Mind you, the atmosphere you had on Tuesday night wasn't a patch on the atmosphere you were inside, Ian.

6:19Yeah, later that night, yeah. Anfield. People say it's a cliche, European nights, but Anfield I just think it comes alive on a European night. Brucia Dortmund supporters were brilliant. It was a good match, you know. Manchester City, Brucia Dortmund. That was an impressive win and I think it has been very very well set up by Manchester City and Liverpool for their match in the Premier League on Sunday afternoon. What was that? His 101st goal off his left foot for Erling Haaland. That's right, as I gave you credit for Ian. Did you? During the match, I did. He will hope not to miss a tap-in, and therefore I must not miss this tap-in, because Anthony Marshall, who is the head of communications at Tottenham Hotspur, sent me a message last week.

7:04Just enjoying the latest episode of the podcast and thought you'd want to know that the tap-in does exist at Tottenham Hotspur Stadium, because of course we were talking about it, weren't we? He said, our main stadium bars and the concourses are all called the tap-in. You guys may even have to walk past one on level five on your way to the commentary position, John. So you've leapt ahead to unintended pub names. But I actually sent you both a picture because I was at Tottenham last Sunday and actually saw it before I knew about Anthony's email to us. So yes, it is there. Yeah, but it needs to be called.

7:42and I very much appreciate the communication from Anthony. And that is Anthony Martial. That's not Anthony Martial who's been in touch. It's definitely Anthony. I think it needs to be the easy tap in. Which is not to say that Anthony Martial would not be welcome were he to want to send an email to the commentator's view. I should hastily add. But I think it needs to be the easy tap in or the simple tap in or the unmissable tap in or the something tap in. Anyway, we are going to get on to unintended pub names and the glossary in a bit. WhatsApp and voice notes. Always welcome to the pod, please.

8:1608000 289 369 and your emails to tcv at bbc.co.uk. But business in hand, you chaps are at Wembley. So there's been an England squad announcement today. We're recording this Friday lunchtime. So you've seen the squad announced and John, I know you've chatted to Thomas Tuchel. This is ahead of World Cup qualifiers in a week's time. England, though, have already qualified for the tournament in Canada, Mexico and the United States next summer. But competition is obviously growing for seats on the plane. Jude Belling and Phil Foden both record this time around. So here is Thomas Tuchel with John after the press conference.

8:52Thomas, I think, judging by what I've just been listening to you say in there, you might have set a little bit of a hair running, as we say, by, well, it sounded to me as though you opened up the possibility of being England manager beyond the World Cup. I open up the possibility. There's always a possibility if everyone is happy with me. There's always a possibility, but the focus is now for camp. You said you're finding this a lot of fun. More fun than you thought? Not more fun than I thought. I find it just reassuring. I find it as exciting as I was hoping it to be. I took the job. I didn't know exactly what was coming.

9:39I knew that I would love to work with the players, but I was not aware of what the demands of international football for a coach actually means. Am I missing the daily work with the players? Yes, still, but it is very exciting so far to be close to this group of players and to shape this group of players. And, of course, lead the group into a World Cup. So the best is yet to come. The most exciting part is yet to come. And I'm looking very much forward to it. Personally, I'm in a good place. I like where I am. It's a lot of fun. It's very demanding. And so, all fine. What sort of England squad is Jude Bellingham going to find when he comes back into this?

10:27Is he going to find it very different to what he was involved in in June? I hope so, in a good way. I hope so, because I think we took some steps in terms of energy and in terms of how we play, how we approach games on and off the pitch. So I hope he finds it different, because I think we took some steps in the right direction. And now with the likes of him and Phil, who are like regulars within the English national team. I hope they can contribute and keep this thing going on an even faster pace. Okay, we'll get on to Bellingham and Foden, the squad, in a second, John. I'm just interested in that first line of conversation you ventured down with Thomas Tuchel.

11:14How did that come up? Was he asked a direct question there or did he sort of float that possibility? What happened was in the media conference, the press conference, where he spoke about the squad that he's named. We should give credit to James Olley from ESPN, who said to Thomas Tuchel, are you open-minded about staying on beyond the World Cup? To which he gave a very open answer to that and said that he hasn't thought about the potential of talking about a new contract and that there's time for that. But he said, I like the direction. so he didn't very firmly didn't say no and to my mind seemed open to the possibility of that happening hence the reason that I asked that question but also when we when he was appointed when I spoke to him back then for the first time I clearly remember him talking about how he'd become a bit of an 18 month two year manager and that was his limit in jobs and he didn't stay any longer than that and our feeling was that This was very much a one-off.

12:22He's been taken on Thomas Tuchel to do this job for a limited period of time. The target is to win the World Cup. If they do, great. If they don't, well, there we are. And then he'll be back off to club management. To me, listening to him today, it sounds as though that might not necessarily be the case. But so much will depend on how England fare in the tournament next summer. So he's quite right to say, right, let's focus on what we've got in front of us and we'll deal with it later on. And Bellingham and Foden back, Ian. No surprise given their club form recently, I guess. No, not at all. I actually thought before hearing Tuchel talk today, Ali, that Bellingham might not necessarily start that first game because they've got Serbia at Wembley on Thursday.

13:08Then they travel to Albania. Of course, they've already qualified. And I think, to be fair, Morgan Rodgers deserves to start ahead of Bellingham the way he's played of late. but Tuchel said today that had they been looking to win the games for World Cup qualification he would have probably kept the same team he's now opened up the possibility that he might go and look at different scenarios for both of those matches but it was it would have been inconceivable to think that Bellingham would would have been excluded again from this squad because obviously he was left out last time in October for the games against Wales and Latvia but since then he's been in good form up until the game at Anfield.

13:47He'd scored in three successive matches for Real Madrid. And I think that both he and Phil Foden are fully warranted for their place in the squad of 25. Yeah, they've demanded selection. And as Thomas Tuchel said, those who have been left out, Loftus-Cheek, Gibbs-White from the midfield, they've been outperformed by two excellent players who are playing in the Champions League. I also liked his comment about ahead of March, he's then going to reconnect with the 55 to 60 players on his long list he's going to try and see them meet them text them get in touch with them because I still think there are a number of players Luke Shaw for instance could consider himself maybe unfortunate not to be in this squad what's going to happen with Trent Alexander-Arnold and Kyle Walker you know there are a number of players who are not included who I still think there are now question marks about their their international futures but also noni madweke livermento and cole palmer who are three players you would say would have to be in the squad i would i would feel so england serbia is uh thursday the 13th of november uh kicks off at 7 45 we've got full commentary on that game and then uh on sunday so on sunday week albania against england is a five o 'clock kickoff and we've got full commentary on that and what I must say before we move on to the Premier League footballers what I must do as Graham Taylor what you must do always used to say was mention the the other games for the home nations because there's some big football coming up a lot of which you will be able to hear on the BBC network so get yourself the BBC sounds app the games will either be on five live sports extra sports extra two or sports extra three I mean in particular Scotland's game away to Greece, the first of their two.

15:34If they manage to avoid defeat there, they've got a massive game at home against Denmark because if they beat Denmark at home then, they would automatically qualify for the World Cup. Wales have got a couple of games. I think Belgium are away and clear there, though. I think they'll expect Belgium to win that group. Wales want to get the runner-up spot. Northern Ireland are still in there as well. So they're behind Germany and Slovakia, but important games coming for them too. So, you know, make sure you get that BBC Sounds app and you will be able to listen to whatever you like. And of course, the Scotland-Wales-Northern Island matches, you can watch on the BBC.

16:07Yeah, great point, John. Right, let's get on to the domestic football then, the Premier League action this weekend before the international break. Commentaries as far as the eye can see. Denno, you've got West Ham-Burnley Saturday 3 o 'clock alongside Pat Nevin. I was with Pat in Prague this week and we both agreed with each other. That is going to be a real tense, scrappy relegation tussle although West Ham showed showed some form actually to beat Newcastle didn't they yeah but did you see that um that statistic from Chris Collinson who who does a lot of the stats for much of the day over the last 10 years of all the promoted sides 0 to 7 points you've got an 8 chance of survival 8 to 10 points a 20 chance of survival 11 or more all 12 promoted sides who've got that amount of points have survived and stayed up over the last 10 years and Burnley are on 10 points and West Ham are three adrift of them so and that was after how many matches that was after 10 games yeah the last 10 seasons you've got to accumulate these amount of points and it gives you a bit of a sort of like a sliding scale if you like but if Burnley can win that game at West Ham then they go six points clear of West Ham United so it is a it is a well it's the proverbial six pointer it's a glossary special John obviously saw West Ham beat Newcastle last weekend three o 'clock Saturday then that's where Ian will be Everton Fulham you can listen to on Sports Extra John's at the stadium a light this could have been second against first it's actually fourth against first but Sunderland Arsenal has the makings of a really good game as well I think John agreed and Sunderland were a little below par on Monday night against Everton.

17:55But Arsenal, as you know, have got one or two injury issues. And as we speak now, we're not entirely sure what the situation is. But of course, as it's been widely discussed, they now have a deeper squad than they've ever had before. But I think that is a very interesting one. And I'm looking forward. James McFadden I haven't worked with for quite a while. Sort of in the flesh, as it were. So really looking forward to that. So that's Saturday, 5.30. then because it's been a European week, four games kicking off at two o 'clock on Sunday. So again, they'll be across all our different platforms.

18:27Our five live game is at the city ground, is Nottingham Forest against Leeds. I'm doing that one with Sue Smith, which, I mean, apart from anything else, it's going to be a cracking atmosphere. I was actually in looking at the stats of, you were talking about your sort of staying up with a certain number of points stats there. I was looking at when Premier League clubs have three managers in a season. And you always think that's going to end terribly. And the examples you think of are the ones that have ended terribly. You know, Watford have done it. Fulham have done it. Didn't Leeds have three during a season?

19:01Yeah, that was recently, John, when they last got relegated because Sam Allardyce finished in charge after Javi Garcia and Jesse Marsh. But actually, there's quite a few examples of clubs who've had three managers during a Premier League season and done OK. That's not this week's clash of the commentators. OK. Question? Well, if it is, there's a Stewart's inquiry already. So Nottingham Forest leads it on Five Live. Brentford, Newcastle, Villa Bournemouth, Palace, Brighton. You'll be able to listen to all of those in full, either on Sports Extra 2, Sports Extra 3, BBC Sport website and app. And then it all builds, John.

19:38Sunday 4.30, Manchester City against Liverpool. Now, I did Liverpool's defeat against Crystal Palace in the League Cup, which is just over a week ago. And with that team selection, I remember us all saying at the time, let's see what happens, you know, over the next 10 days. They've beaten Aston Villa. They've beaten Real Madrid. Now they go to Manchester City. But Manchester City have shown good form as well. And I was in the room with Pep Guardiola on Wednesday night. And I mean, he could be leading us up the garden path. But I thought he very much had the body language of a man who likes where his team is right now.

20:18and you know there's a bit of psychology in that as well of course isn't there in in projecting that to the outside but what i like about this is you know very often over the course of recent seasons i've gone to manchester city liverpool matches and thought well probably a point if they both if they come out of this with a point then they'll probably take that two of them i think with arsenal doing what they're doing this is the one where they will both be thinking we need to win this we have got a ton of of correspondence uh to get through and we've still got our brilliant guest uh to come as well young jacob colshaw is on the way on this podcast uh unintended pub names first last week it was all about the easy tap in already had some correspondence on that uh in this pod chris wise and former forest defender luke chambers getting a lot of airtime uh on this pod over the last couple of weeks because first from then we had the majestic muñoz then dozens of listeners told us we ironically missed the easy tap in from the same clip but now we're going to play the clip again we've got to play the same clip again because john in london says there's another unintended pub name in there he takes the extra touch which allows munoz to make up that ground and cut it out for the easy tap in the majestic munoz so good at going in in both directions.

21:37So John says, thank you for your great podcast, which I listen to and walking my dogs every Saturday morning. Further to your discussion regarding the majestic Munoz and the easy tap-in, I think you may have missed another sitter in the very same commentary when just before the easy tap-in, the commentator mentions the player taking the extra touch. I imagine it to be a small, friendly, family-run pub in the countryside where nothing is too much trouble and perhaps they provide a complimentary packet of crisps with every pint the extra touch keep up the great way is that i know it's amazing i tell you what would be a good idea for the extra touch would be if you had one of those big sort of as you say uh what i call it so a chain pub you could have it you could have the big chain pub that attracted your family crowd but what you could do is you could actually build a little building next door called the Extra Touch which could be just a bar with, you know, an interesting range of drinks available.

22:38But what if that becomes more popular than the main building and then it all gets jammed and queued up and no one's in? You're laughing then. You're laughing all the way to the bank. Mark in Guangzhou, China also says at the risk of flogging... The first one we've had from Guangzhou. I think it's the first one we've had from Guangzhou. says at the risk of flogging a dead horse what about the extra touch? Although that name might be more suited to a massage parlour says Mark. Joshua from Grimsby loved the pod. During the West Ham Newcastle match I heard John say another unintended club name. West Ham breaking forward now with Jared Bourne, the captain into the penalty area.

23:15Right foot of ball across and it's lifted over the top of the near post by the falling Somerville. He was under pressure but couldn't get it on target. Small town boy. Jimmy. And then Joshua sent us another email off the back of that. Hi again, just after emailing about the falling Somerville, I heard John say another unintended pub name. Murphy on the right, Joe Linton on the left, and the gangly Osula up front, the Danish under-21 international, who has shown more this season. Yes, he has. I like the way he's described in Gangla, but he is like that with Osula, but yeah, he's done well. we're still sticking with Osula rather than Osula Osula, it's Osula well I actually listened back to it I don't think there's much I think there's not a great difference between Osula and Osula we've actually had this before I know we've had this before we've actually played him saying his own name in this pod we're going to have to do it again and I thought there was an Osula I thought there was an Osula would you prefer to drink in the Osula or the Osula I'd rather drink in the gangly Osula I think I would go with the Osula William William, Osula.

24:24One more time, please. William, Osula. I think I prefer the Osula. You would. We also have this one from Rams fan Liz. I'm sure I wasn't the only one whose ears pricked up when John referred to the Danish Newcastle striker as the gangly Osula. John, do you want to do the next one? Yeah, Sheffield Wednesday fan James has gone for something Leon Osman, the popular Leon Osman, said in commentary at Nottingham Forest versus Manchester United. And apart from, you know, immediately after they scored and started trying to play through a Nottingham Forest aggressive press, they've actually known when to play Manchester United and I think they've found a Bwema and Cunha in some brilliant pockets of space.

25:00Here is a Bwema. So James says, Leon Osman saying immediately after United had scored, they started trying to play through the Nottingham Forest aggressive press. That to me sounds like a rowdy pub micro cidery full of rambunctious journalists. The Nottingham Forest aggressive press. Up the owls, says James. Not very welcoming, though, is it? I'm just going for a pint in the aggressive press. I think that sounds quite good. I'd approach with caution. I think it's probably one of those places, if you're not a regular, you open the door and it'll all go quiet and they'll suss you out for a bit. And then I think once you've been in there a few times, then you'd probably be all right.

25:38Well, the man who started off the unintended pub names is Paul Robinson. And Sarah in Madrid says, Hi all, Ali said an unintended pub name in the Manchester City commentary with Robbo. Anthony Taylor was going to let that go, but then he looked where Doku was and he was just about to accelerate freely into the 18-yard box. He's need him in the back of the calf, the left calf there. That is the untattooed calf I can see on the close-up of Alex Jimenez. I'm really enjoying the Doku-Jimenez battle, actually. The untattooed calf. And do you see that Sarah says, I have in mind calf as in baby cow, not as in the part of the leg.

26:22I even have attached the pub sign, although the AI image generator has missed a letter out of the name. Still, you get the idea. That's great. And there it is. There's the pub sign for the untattooed calf. Love all the correspondence. Keep it coming in. Rick in Salford. Absolutely love the pod listening to a game over the weekend. Unfortunately, I can't remember which one it was as I was knee deep in DIY. why I heard the phrase someone walking off to a cacophony of boos. I don't think that was me. I have used that cacophony before. It's a good word, that. That was me. That was the Nottingham Forest game because of the referee's decision to award the corner that led to the goal for Casemiro's header.

27:02Well, Darren England is being flanked by security guards as he makes his way down to the tunnel to a cacophony of boos here at the sitting ground. If you spot an unintended pub name in a commentary, do let us know. They seem to be absolutely everywhere. TCV at BBC.co.uk and the WhatsApps, as always, to 08000 289 369. Welcome to the team behind the team, a new podcast series in partnership with the Open University, where we'll be showcasing the people, the tools and the techniques to help athletes and teams reach elite level. Like all elite sports, it's a pyramid and everybody's trying to get to the top.

27:43It's not just my vision. It's a shared vision amongst the team. What is this? This is not the way I see the game. The team behind the team with Katie Smith. In partnership with The Open University. Listen on BBC Sounds. We focus on the part of the internet that most people don't know about. It's called the dark web. Undercover in the furthest corners of the dark web. US special agents are on a mission to locate and rescue children from abuse. Move in now. From the BBC World Service, World of Secrets, the Darkest Web follows their shocking investigations. Listen on bbc.com or wherever you get your BBC podcasts.

28:30The Commentator's View on the Football Daily with Alistair Bruce Ball, John Murray and Ian Dennis. Right, it is guest time. Occasionally we like to get a guest on the commentator's view from the Five Live Sport team to reveal a little bit more of what it's like to work in the world of football radio. So we've had producer Claire on, we've had fellow commentator Chris Coles, and now we thought we'd get on our young reporter and TikTok sensation, as I promoted earlier on, Jacob Coleshaw. Before we get Jacob on, though, he's sitting there waiting for us. Let's hear him in action on his Five Live Sport debut last weekend at Eastleigh.

29:11Winning an update from Eastleigh in the FA Cup as well, Jacob Coulshaw. Yeah, and Walsall have doubled their lead. John Eastleigh, Neil Walsall 2. Daniel Carnu rifling one into the roof of the Eastleigh net. It feels like such a sucker punch. Just five minutes into the second half, Eastleigh, Neil Walsall 2. Yes, we've got Jacob Overlord this afternoon. Jacob Murphy, Jacob Ramsey, Jacob Coulshaw. Forget TikTok sensation. That was Five Live sensation. That was a very assured debut. You actually laugh when I said TikTok sensation. Are you not having that then? I'm having it. I'm having it. I actually thought I've only been on Five Live once.

29:44I'm already part of the team, apparently. So, no, it's great to be on. And thanks so much for having me, John, Ali, Ian. A bit surreal, really, if I'm honest. What makes you a TikTok sensation? I wouldn't say sensation. I'd probably just go with TikTok chancer. But basically, I started to... It was actually one of my good mates, actually, who said, why don't you film yourself doing the reports? For a couple of reasons. Firstly, your posture, your body language, your energy. And when you sort of review your stuff, when you listen to it back, how does it sound? And then he said, well, you should post this.

30:18Why are you not posting it? And I was doing it for BBC London, the great team with Phil Parry, Nick Godwin, Aaron Paul, who's obviously gone to amazing things. Xavi Bird as well, worked so hard. And I pestered them. They probably hate me. I say, do you mind sending the clip for this goal or for this moment? And I just sync up the audio with the video and put it out. And it seems to resonate with people. And yeah, it's been really, I mean, a little bit, again, surreal to see how it's kind of taken off. But for me, doing five live last week was the pick of the bunch so far. When you're doing that, Jacob, do you forget that the camera is there?

30:56So people love, they love that sort of behind the scenes stuff. And quite often now we have this sort of commentary mic thing going on. So, you know, they'll put one of those little cameras when we're doing a commentary and then play the goal clips and whatever. But do you find you're still able to be totally natural doing that? I think so, Ali. I've kind of been surrounded by cameras since I was 16. I know I can't grow a beard, but I'm 24 and I've kind of got used to it a little bit. And I think probably the biggest thing nowadays, just in general, is authenticity. And I'll be totally honest, I'll do the complete same report, goal update if the camera was on or wasn't.