In short
Build-up to major European and England-related football coverage, plus a guest interview about BBC drama Dear England.
Guests (and backgrounds)
- Ali (Alistair Bruce-Ball) – BBC football commentator and host.
- John Murray – BBC football correspondent/commentator; reports from Budapest for the Champions League final.
- Ian Dennis – BBC football commentator; travelling to cover England warm-up games in the US.
- Joseph Fiennes – actor who plays Gareth Southgate in Dear England (James Graham’s Olivier-winning play adaptation).
Key claims
- Crystal Palace’s Conference League win created a “connection” with fans because commentary is displayed at Selhurst Park.
- Arsenal’s Champions League final chances hinge on contrast of styles: PSG favourites, but Arsenal’s Premier League title may boost belief; PSG’s “turn up on the day” is usually a one-off.
- UEFA final scheduling aims to avoid Europa League being overshadowed by Champions League build-up.
Notable examples
- Crystal Palace fans’ “Glad All Over” singing; Glasner’s Klinsmann belly-slide moment.
- PSG vs Arsenal: mentions possible fitness of Dembele and uncertainty around Hakimi.
- Dear England: Fiennes says his Southgate performance is informed by Southgate’s audio book and interviews; his voice appears in the stage/TV drama for Harry Kane’s missed Qatari penalty.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOPreparations for the UCL Final
0:37 to 1:29
Discussion about the upcoming Champions League final and the experiences in preparation.
“Do you have a friend who treats airfare like a puzzle and somehow always ends up with a first-class upgrade?”
Preparations for the UCL Final
1:30 to 3:19
Discussion about the upcoming Champions League final and the experiences in preparation.
“Speaking of which, Ian Dennis, I know, will be packing his bags, ready for an early departure to the east coast of the United States of America, soon to bring us coverage of England's World Cup warm-up games.”
Memories from Leipzig and Crystal Palace
3:20 to 5:47
Reflections on the recent Crystal Palace victory and the atmosphere in Leipzig.
“You know, if you're going to use the sporting cliche, sort of plucky underdogs.”
Fan Reactions and Commentary Insights
5:48 to 8:34
Insights into fan interactions and commentary experiences related to Crystal Palace.
“Have you seen this email that we've got from Crystal Palace fan Jez, who says, Ali, Dear TCV, I just wanted to congratulate Ali for completing the TCV hat trick of commentating on a Crystal Palace trophy win.”
Preparing for the World Cup Commentary
8:35 to 11:28
Discussion about the preparations and challenges for the upcoming World Cup commentary.
“And we're sort of saying, well, you're going to need to deliver if we win this trophy.”
Previewing UCL Final Matchup
11:29 to 14:01
Analyzing the upcoming Champions League final between PSG and Arsenal.
“Listen, we've got a lot to pack in in this particular podcast.”
Analyzing the UCL Final: PSG vs Arsenal
14:01 to 15:02
The discussion revolves around the contrasting styles and strengths of PSG and Arsenal leading up to the UCL Final.
“Well, what we know, Ali, is that this final is going to be the classic contrast of styles, don't we?”
Mikel Arteta's Confidence and Arsenal's Journey
15:02 to 18:23
Exploring Mikel Arteta's recent accomplishments and the potential impact on Arsenal's performance in the Champions League.
“That was one of the best examples of turning up on the day that I've seen in sport.”
UEFA Finals Hierarchy Explained
18:23 to 19:10
Discussion about the scheduling of UEFA finals and the reasoning behind the order of the Europa League, Conference League, and Champions League.
“You know, he's had the hard line approach as well, but I just like the way that they play football.”
Reflecting on the Premier League Season's Conclusion
19:10 to 23:23
Insights into the last weekend of the Premier League season and a listener's commendation of Ian's commentary during the matches.
“Five o 'clock kickoff on Saturday evening.”
Show all 24 chapters
West Ham's Season and Future Prospects
23:23 to 27:34
A deep dive into West Ham's struggles, management decisions, and the challenges they face in the upcoming season.
“Was your good feeling that he would be staying on?”
Bournemouth's Rise and Community Connection
27:34 to 28:00
Discussion on Bournemouth's achievements in football and the delightful experience of local hospitality at matches.
“that Bournemouth under their new manager, Marco Rosa.”
Wrap-Up of the Premier League Season
28:00 to 29:00
Discussion about the conclusion of the Premier League season and a call for World Cup questions.
“for what they've achieved for their respective aims this season, has been excellent.”
Interview with Joseph Fiennes
30:24 to 38:00
Joseph Fiennes discusses his role as Gareth Southgate and insights on football culture.
“And I'm very lucky to have participated in the National Theatre's rendition that then went on to the West End and now is a four-parter for the BBC.”
The Nuances of Leadership in Football
38:01 to 42:09
Exploring the complexities of leadership through Gareth Southgate's career and its portrayal in the drama.
“Because, as I say, having dealt with him so much over the years, he's probably as thoughtful a person in football that I've had dealings with, yet at the same time is a hard-nosed football manager.”
Reflections on Commentary and Performance
42:09 to 46:15
A deep dive into the emotional experience of commentary and performance, highlighting the unique pressures faced by commentators and actors alike.
“I don't think any other England manager has had to deal with that.”
Celebrating Gareth Southgate
46:15 to 48:02
Discussion centers around Gareth Southgate's mentorship and the dramatization of his story, touching on themes of appreciation and honor.
“One other question is, have you ever fancied turning your hand to football commentary?”
Comparisons Between Commentary and Acting
48:02 to 49:27
Insights into the similarities and differences between football commentary and acting, emphasizing the performance aspect of both roles.
“And I think that was the, because he was doing the rounds that morning and this was going to be the last one.”
Listener Correspondence and Dog Nominations
49:27 to 53:57
Engagement with listeners through fun anecdotes, dog nominations for a team, and humorous commentary on football-related topics.
“and it's called Dear England, and it's definitely something I'm going to do, and it's brilliant, it was brilliant to have Joseph Fiennes on the pod in conversation with John.”
Clash of the Commentators Title Decider
53:57 to 56:00
The hosts prepare for a competitive segment, discussing past performances and the stakes involved in determining the title winner.
“Before clash of the commentators, good email from Kenneth in Glasgow, which sums up this season of the commentator's view quite nicely.”
Introduction to the Game Format
56:00 to 56:48
Learn about the competitive format of the game being played in the episode.
“I feel a little bit like Hull City going into the playoff final.”
Ian's Turn: Naming British Players
56:48 to 58:25
Follow Ian as he attempts to name British players who played in La Liga.
“Well, Ian, as the league leader, should decide that.”
John's Turn: Matching Ian's Answers
58:25 to 1:01:03
Listen as John tries to match and potentially outdo Ian's list of players.
“Barcelona have this week agreed a deal worth more than£69 million for Newcastle and England forward Anthony Gordon.”
Declaring the Champion
1:01:03 to 1:01:34
The results of the game reveal Ian as the champion, with discussions on the outcome.
“the listener to decide neither have you said Trent Alexander Arnold no no Jermaine Pennant.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Ali Bruce-Ball:This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK.
0:29Snapdragon. That's how. Today's episode is sponsored by Smart Travel, a podcast from NerdWallet. Do you have a friend who treats airfare like a puzzle and somehow always ends up with a first-class upgrade? Smart Travel is like that friend, minus the group texts. NerdWallet's travel journalists break down the pros and cons of travel decisions, like when lounge access is worth paying for and which hotel loyalty programs actually pay off. Make your travel dollars work harder. Follow Smart Travel on your favourite podcast app.
1:28Ali Bruce-Ball:us on our travels. Speaking of which, Ian Dennis, I know, will be packing his bags, ready for an early departure to the east coast of the United States of America, soon to bring us coverage of England's World Cup warm-up games. I'm just back from Leipzig, where I saw Crystal Palace win a European trophy for the very first time, and correspondent John Murray says good morning to us from Budapest. John, good morning. Good morning from Budapest, Ali, and Ian. And good morning to
1:57Ian Dennis:you in Budapest, John. Have you done football in Budapest before, John? Yes, yes, on several occasions and I've actually at least once, maybe more than that, come here to go somewhere else. So I've come here to drive on to somewhere else. I actually can't even remember where that was. So it's not uncharted territory by any means, Budapest, but where I am Ali is and the weather here is beautiful it's just like it's been at home over the course of the last couple of weeks or so um but i've not stayed where i am for this which is right next to the railway station the magnificent main railway station of budapest which is actually we're in a walking distance away from the the stadium which for a champions league final i mean that is that is worth its weight so it's about it's about 20 minutes walk it'd be 30 for you Ian and um you know so so we're not too far away so we'll be able to walk there and back most importantly on the way back after the match and and right at the outset should say again because this may have escaped people's attention it is local time six o 'clock kickoff so it's five o 'clock kickoff UK time which is the first time we've had that which I think is a great innovation for a whole variety of reasons but I think most importantly it means that you know it's it's five o 'clock uk time on a saturday night but the the station is a magnificent building absolutely magnificent building it's it's a little bit crumbling around the edges but that almost makes it better and a lot of the signage is the old hungarian signage um which is translated lots of old wooden doors and you just sort of think from here I could go anywhere and the board of destinations is is amazing and and also last night came back last night and they've projected one of the sponsors has projected it was I think it was Odegaard and Gabrielle onto the front of the station which looked amazing so so there's a little flavor of what I've seen so far in the few hours that I've been here when you say you could
4:09John Murray:go anywhere I wouldn't bother doing that because in years to come you won't remember where you would go on from Budapest but also Ali you're back from Leipzig and the train station in Leipzig
4:21Ali Bruce-Ball:is equally as spectacular it is and we were staying pretty close to it and we equally were able to walk to the stadium which I thought was a really good venue actually for the conference league final and what I'm going to take away with me from the whole occasion I mean obviously the story of Crystal Palace playing in their first European season and winning yet another trophy so in the space of just over a year having won no major trophies for 120 years to suddenly have three in the cabinet that that is obviously the story but actually my main memories will be of the city the day before the game and these two sets of fans I mean both of whom were making the absolute most out of out of a fabulous occasion because the Raya Viacano story is an incredible one in itself I I mean, similarly in a way to Crystal Palace, sort of, you know, based in the capital city, in the southeastern suburbs.
5:14Ali Bruce-Ball:You know, if you're going to use the sporting cliche, sort of plucky underdogs. But the more I read about Raya Viacano and what they stand for as a football club and what their fan base is all about. Yeah, and it was two sets of clubs, I think, and two sets of fans who sort of got each other. So the shared experience in the city and inside the stadium and also just the colours. I mean, the Raya Varkana shirt is absolutely fantastic with a red thunderbolt across the white shirt on the front. And the Crystal Palace shirt, when you see them in their thousands, actually, in the city, looked absolutely brilliant.
5:47Ali Bruce-Ball:So obviously Crystal Palace got the win, but the atmosphere of the whole occasion was the thing that will stay with me.
5:53Ian Dennis:Have you seen this email that we've got from Crystal Palace fan Jez, who says, Ali, Dear TCV, I just wanted to congratulate Ali for completing the TCV hat trick of commentating on a Crystal Palace trophy win. Of all the things that have happened in football since you started the podcast, surely this is the most unlikely. Hoping to hear that some of Ali's commentary from the match finds its way to the wall of the Selhurst Park Media Centre alongside John and Ian's. Thanks for all of your commentaries, says Jez. I've been listening to football on BBC Radio since the 1970s, and the quality and service is second to none.
6:34Ian Dennis:Glad all over, says Jez. So thank you very much for that. I would say, just like I did, Ian, for your commentary last week, any Crystal Palace fan who was there wants to listen to how that sounded, Ali's commentary with Paul Robinson, you can go to BBC Sounds just for the cost of your licence fee. Go on there. Stations and schedules. Find Wednesday night, 8 o 'clock. You can listen to it back all over again. And I was at Crystal Palace on Sunday, and I just had a little look there, and there is space between where Ian's words and my words have been put up on the wall. There is space in between.
7:16Ian Dennis:But also, didn't you have a word with Steve Parrish? Or did Steve Parrish have a word with you? No, no. I interviewed Steve Parrish after the match, just because we were hanging around for such a long time, waiting for Arsenal people to finish their celebrations. Steve Parrish sort of wandered past, so I had a word. And he was saying to me, he said, I feel like I hear that commentary on the FA Cup final. He said, I feel like I hear it every day, which I thought was a nice touch. And also, I must mention Jane Albert. Have you met Jane? Who is the Crystal Palace tour guide? So she conducts tours of Selhurst Park.
7:55Ian Dennis:And she came up, introduced herself. She was absolutely charming. And, you know, she was lovely saying about how much she had enjoyed our commentary on the FA Cup final. And it feels like, I think I've said this before, it feels like, because you and I are commentating on the FA Cup final, it feels like we've suddenly got this connection with Crystal Palace. And every single time I go there, someone different will come up and speak to me about the FA Cup final, which is really nice. And you might get that, Ali, now as well, having commentated on the Conference League final.
8:29Ali Bruce-Ball:Well, certainly a couple of Crystal Palace fans who live locally who had a word with me before the final and are aware of the fact that your commentary is, you know, is plastered up there in the stadium. And we're sort of saying, well, you're going to need to deliver if we win this trophy. I was wondering whether they've got the commentary actually of when Glasner does the Klinsmann belly slide. I wonder whether that's the one because honestly that was – I didn't realise. I think he did that in 2022 when he was the manager of Frankfurt when they beat Rangers because I think looking on social media, I saw him do it previously.
9:02Ali Bruce-Ball:So I didn't realise that was a thing, but it caught me by surprise. But it was very funny because he is so – he's got a wry sense of humour, hasn't he? but you very rarely see him let his hair down like that. It was brilliant. That was a great moment, that.
9:16John Murray:Just to say that the fact that they're now going to be playing in the Europa League, it'll mean more Sunday football next season. So you might be making more trips to Selhurst Park than I will,
9:27Ali Bruce-Ball:the two of you, next season. I did what you suggested, actually, John. Just had a little listen back to some of the commentary from the night because I wanted to be sure, not be sure, because I knew what the answer was, but the atmosphere inside the stadium was so good. You know, one of those where you take your headphone off your ear just to really get a full flavour of what it was like. And the singing of Glad All Over in particular, but so many of the Palace songs, playing in front of that must have been absolutely amazing for both sets of players. So I went back just to have a listen to whether it came across as well as it actually sounded inside the stadium.
10:05Ali Bruce-Ball:And it does. That's the thing. You really, really, really get a feel of what it's like, what it was like to be inside that stadium. So it was some night and it's a competition, isn't it? I mean, Brighton are playing in that competition next season and they must look at that and think, do you know what? If you see the success that the English clubs have had in the Conference League, and I know people will grumble about that and say that it's not necessarily weighted in their favour, but because of the financial resources of the Premier League, the teams are always going to be strong in it. Brighton must look at that and think, we should go far in that competition.
10:38Ian Dennis:I totally agree. and I think I've said before on here it almost feels a little bit unfair that the Premier League clubs are in the Conference League but that's a separate argument and Ali you should be giving a name credit to our excellent BBC sound engineer who helped to provide that audio.
10:56Ali Bruce-Ball:You're spot on there John, well done for picking me up on that that was Ian Mitchell actually who I have not worked with too often Ian, Ian does a lot of cricket, plays a lot of cricket but actually works on a lot of cricket but has done some football with us. And yes, he had particularly for the effects of the stadium. So not just our microphones, but different microphones in places to get the sound, the balance of the sound just right so that you could hear our voices cutting across the amazing atmosphere inside the stadium. So no, you're absolutely right. Top job done by Ian.
11:29Ian Dennis:Listen, we've got a lot to pack in in this particular podcast. So I think we should crack on with it. But Ian, you are going to be the first of the three of us to cross the Atlantic, aren't you?
11:41John Murray:I am indeed, yes. We've got the two warm-up games for England against New Zealand and Costa Rica before the World Cup starts. So, yes, Florida bound. Have you finished all your best? Nope. I've got to say, this week, I've actually at times felt a little bit overwhelmed by the amount of work that we've got to do. And because some of the nations actually haven't announced their squads as yet, I'm actually having to take a gamble. I'm taking a punt on a number of them because I've done so far... I'm on 19 teams of the 48. Wow. So I've really cracked on this week. But they are literally the basics.
12:26John Murray:They are name, age, caps. And then I haven't delved a little bit deeper into them.
12:31Ali Bruce-Ball:But you won't be commentating on all 48 countries, will you, Ian, that are playing at the World Cup?
12:37John Murray:Yeah, I mean, we'll do that more, I would imagine, on our, I think, the questions that we've got for the World Cup Q &A. Sure.
12:44Ali Bruce-Ball:So I'll keep my powder dry for that. Very good. I'm actually, I mean, you're overwhelmed by the prep we've got to do for the games. I'm overwhelmed by the admin that still needs to be done, the kind of forms I've got to fill in.
12:53Ian Dennis:That's what I've been doing. That's what I've been doing this week.
12:56Ali Bruce-Ball:Yeah.
12:56Ian Dennis:You know when we said we've got to crack on? Yes, we should crack on.
13:00Ali Bruce-Ball:Okay, okay. Listen, on the England front, later on in this episode, we are bringing you a special sit-down interview. I'm really looking forward to this, actually. This is John in conversation with the man who plays Gareth Southgate in the new BBC drama Dear England. That is Joseph Fiennes. So John and Joseph Fiennes in conversation. Stay tuned for that. But on Saturday, as John's been mentioning, five o 'clock kickoff, five o 'clock in the afternoon, we will have commentary of Paris Saint-Germain against Arsenal on 5 Live. John Murray with Matt Upson alongside him. Steve Crossman presenting from the Pushkas Arena.
13:36Ali Bruce-Ball:for the Champions League final. And John, just linking the two, because you were just mentioning you were at Crystal Palace for the last day of the Premier League season. Do you think that the fact that they've won the Premier League had time to enjoy that, etc., etc., just sends them into this final, you know, in a really sort of positive state of mind? Whereas had it gone the other way in the title race, this could have felt very different, I think, this weekend.
14:01Ian Dennis:Well, what we know, Ali, is that this final is going to be the classic contrast of styles, don't we? And I think without question, PSG have to be the favourites. I feel that in all of the time that I've done this job, I think Luis Enrique's Paris Saint-Germain are one of the most exciting teams to watch. I think they've been brilliantly built, obviously with the money that they've had to do that. But Arsenal have spent lots and lots of money as well. And what is an unknown is what is the effect of Arsenal getting over the line and winning the Premier League, is that going to boost them onto new heights, which it could do?
14:40Ian Dennis:Or is this new experience now of playing in the Champions League, having achieved what they've done in the Premier League, is it going to be a step too far? And I think with PSG having the recent experience of doing what they did, which also I think is this impressive performance that I've ever seen a team put in a final in Munich last year against a very disappointing Inter. But even so, PSG absolutely. Talk about turning up on the day. That was one of the best examples of turning up on the day that I've seen in sport. However, I don't think that will happen again. That's a one-off. So I think that actually, in a strange way, gives Arsenal more of a chance.
15:21Ian Dennis:But I think, you know, man for man, such a settled team as we don't know that if like Hakimi, Dembele, it looks like Dembele will be fit as we speak right now. We don't know about Hakimi. but for Arsenal I think there are a lot of positions in the team where you think who's going to play there so it's a little bit more uncertain.
15:38John Murray:I was at the LMA Awards in central London in midweek Ali and Mikel Arteta was named as the Premier League Manager of the year and actually sent the video clip to John because he talked he said that he sensed that we've got the energy the positivity and the confidence within the club we now have an amazing opportunity to talk about a new chapter for Arsenal and we are convinced we are going to do it. And I've got to say, he actually sounded quite bullish that particular night.
16:08Ian Dennis:Well, did you hear the interview that I did with him on the pitch at Salhurst Park last Sunday night where the last question I, you know, and he gave, honestly, so he should, he's just won the Premier League, but he gave a very, very good interview. And the last thing I said to him was, and what about this time next week, Mikel? And he said, we'll do it again. meaning trophy lift celebration. So, you know, I think you're right, Ian. I think it's that belief thing, isn't it? That's how he's approaching it.
16:37Ali Bruce-Ball:Yeah, and, you know, it's an obvious thing to say, but an opportunity that they've got to try and seize because they've only ever been in one European Cup final before. That was back in 2006. And I know their progression in this competition in recent seasons, the way they're going, you think they may get a chance to be in more, But you never, you never ever know, do you?
16:58Ian Dennis:Back in 2006, you'd think, well, Arsene Wenger and Arsenal will have another opportunity to win a Champions League final. And they didn't.
17:06Ali Bruce-Ball:And historically as well, Ian, from the Paris Saint-Germain point of view, and I heard Steve Crossman talking about this on the EuroLeague's podcast last night, which is available on the Football Daily feed, which is the start of our build-up to the Champions League final, trying to win back-to-back European Cup finals. I know Real Madrid, you know, obviously with their domination of the competition, they feature larger than that. But it's a difficult thing to do.
17:29John Murray:It is. But I agree with John that this is a Paris Saint-Germain side that you can only admire. And yes, I know that, like John said, they've thrown the money at it. But the way that they play their football and also the amount of emerging talent they've got, this is a team that potentially could dominate Europe for a number of years. Now, whether Luis Enrique thinks at some stage that there might be other attractions, such as the Premier League, you know, in the not too distant future, then who knows? But I just think, I mean, I'm full of admiration for him as a person and also what he's achieved as a coach.
18:09John Murray:But you think about the hardship that he's had to go through through the adversity. And I think that what he's assembled, and he's not afraid to crack the whip either. You think back to last year when they played Arsenal in the group stages, he left Dembele behind because there was a little bit of discipline. You know, he's had the hard line approach as well, but I just like the way that they play football. I just think there's such an exciting and attacking team to watch. And as John says, it'll be that contrast of styles, but it should make for a captivating game.
Read the full transcript
18:40Ali Bruce-Ball:Yeah, and just talking about those two managers, that was part of the show last night. Right, so that's what you can listen to on the BBC Sounds app at the moment, on the Football Daily feed. As part of that EuroLeague show was Steve Crossman, Guillaume Balaguet and Julien Laurent sort of doing an in-depth feature on Luis Enrique and Mikel Arteta and what makes them tick.
19:00Ian Dennis:And also, we should point out, as we speak now, unless something changes, this final is not available on free-to-air television. So, therefore, Five Live, the place to listen to it.
19:13Ali Bruce-Ball:Five o 'clock kickoff on Saturday evening. I don't think we've had correspondence from Geelong before. Geelong? Geelong. Is it Geelong, not Geelong? Geelong. Geelong. Upward inflection. Jed in Geelong, Australia. Geelong. Has a question for us. Hi, TCV team. Can anyone explain why the UEFA club finals in the order Europa League, then Conference League, then Champions League, please. My gut instinct would be that if there's a hierarchy of the finals, then the order of the finals should be Conference League, Europa League and Champions League. Am I right? Or am I right? Keep up the good work. Hashtag JFJ.
20:00Cheers.
20:01John Murray:Well, Jed, I hate to point this out to you, and it's nothing to do with your little payoff there at the end, but I think you're wrong. You're wrong. Because the reason being is that the Europa League is the secondary UEFA competition. And if it was played days before the Champions League final, it wouldn't necessarily get as much attention as it does a week before. And I think that is the reason why the Europa League is played in a separate week to the Champions League.
20:30Ali Bruce-Ball:And if you look, I mean, I know this changes all the time. If you look at the EFL playoffs, certainly at the end of this season, we had championship went first, didn't it, on the Saturday evening. and then League One on the Sunday and League Two on the... But that's changed before, hasn't it? So that moves around a bit.
20:47John Murray:Because the Championship Player Final always used to be the Monday. But they flipped it. But I do see why they've done it with the Europa League. Because you have all the build-up to the Europa League, then you have all the fallout. Whereas, I mean, still I'd say there's been a sufficient coverage of Crystal Palace's success. But I think it's because the hierarchy and the decision-makers at UEFA do not want the Europa League to be overshadowed in the build-up to the Champions League final. And that's the reason why it's played in advance, what, 10 days beforehand.
21:17Ali Bruce-Ball:The other thing, just moving it on now. So John is in Budapest. You have already got that show on the Football Daily, the EuroLeagues with Steve Crossman, previewing the final with Guillaume Balaguet and Julien Laurent. The next episode of the Football Daily after this one will be the Champions League debrief, in fact, with all the reaction to it. but John and Matt Upson with the commentary from five o 'clock on Saturday evening. The other, I was going to say, not thing, but I mean, major weekend of football that's happened since we've last spoken to you on this podcast, of course, was the last weekend of the Premier League season.
21:50Ali Bruce-Ball:I'm going to start with an email here, and this is going to make Ian blush, but I'm really pleased someone has messaged in to say this, because this was exactly how I felt sitting at West Ham, listening to Ian's commentary of Tottenham Everton, with everything else that was going on. So obviously there was the relegation picture going on and all the fight for the European places. So Richard in Oxford gets in touch and says, hi, gents. I hope you're all well and finding time to relax after a huge run of games. Well, not quite, Richard. Full disclosure, I'm firmly in the J4J, Justice for John camp, but that's for another day.
22:23Ali Bruce-Ball:I came out of a 10-hour shift at my local hospital on Sunday to hear the second half commentary of the last day of the season. I feel compelled to contact you to say what a masterful piece of work Ian Dennis produced of the Tottenham against Everton match. His enthusiasm, tone and accuracy completely painted a wonderful picture, not only of the match, but he and others skillfully juggled between events, unfolding up and down the country, keeping listeners updated and invested in the day. It really was just a masterclass in how to provide a radio commentary. All the best for the World Cup, gents.
22:53Ali Bruce-Ball:Have a good summer. Richard in Oxford. And you don't have to say anything to that, Ian, But it was one of those where as soon as my game finished, I picked up my phone and I messaged you because I felt that. I just sit and I thought, wow, Denno is on it today. You know, that just I don't know whether you felt the same. I just thought that sounds so good.
23:12Ian Dennis:Yeah. But that is lovely. Lovely words from Richard. And he's absolutely spot on, Ian. And if you weren't red faced already, then you probably you probably would be.
23:25John Murray:that's two jibes that you've had at me now have you been out in the sun by the way you do seem quite a hard face no it's just blood pressure I think
23:35Ian Dennis:it's an early start by the way thank you to Richard
23:38Ali Bruce-Ball:yeah no absolutely you're spot on Richard and to everybody else who's sent me kind messages as well so as it was West Ham are the ones relegated there is though a silver lining to the cloud some good news for the Hammers
23:58Ian Dennis:Nuno Espirito Santo
24:03Managing
24:03Ian Dennis:down at West Ham
24:07Ali Bruce-Ball:Nuno's staying in charge, John. Nice to hear that again. Yeah.
24:10Ian Dennis:Well, you were there, Ali. Yes. Was your good feeling that he would be staying on?
24:17Ali Bruce-Ball:I think there'll be mixed feelings about that because given his impressive record as a manager in the Premier League, it feels like it's been a bit muddled at West Ham this season. I mean, from his point, I mean, there's all sorts of issues to be discussed there, but just in terms of his stewardship of the team, there's various decisions during the season in terms of playing players out of position, not being able to settle on his sort of regular midfield lineup. I remember the game, they were 2-0 up against Bournemouth. Callum Wilson, I think, had scored both. He took him off early in the second half.
24:49You know, there's quite a few things
24:52Ali Bruce-Ball:I think West Ham fans could grumble about, but obviously his track record, if he's committed and what he did with Wolves in the championship, you know, we know that he is a good manager. And again, the fans applauded the players. I wouldn't say particularly Nuno. Obviously the ire really was for David Sullivan and the board, and it was very noticeable that he vacated his seat about 15 minutes before the end. So they were at him during the second half, and then he'd gone by the end of it. But, you know, that's going to be quite a job, actually, getting them out of the championship.
25:25John Murray:They'll lose Bowen, won't they? I mean, the rumours saying that, you know, Jarrod Bowen is Liverpool that might be after Jarrod Bowen. There's a lot of talk about Bowen potentially going to Merseyside. I can't see how he can stay there. There'll be other players who'll look to move on, and therefore they've got to get the recruitment right. Because, like you say, Ali, it's toxic regarding the ownership. that's a huge huge problem for them going forward on a slightly different note ali i know that you
25:54Ian Dennis:wanted to have a word about ken on the front desk at bournemouth after our story last week
26:02Ali Bruce-Ball:the yeah i was the four finger kitkat stroke i caught up on the brilliant uh confectionary chat from from tcv last week so ken i'm very lucky i mean ken and ken is as you say john the welcome you get at Bournemouth but I think particularly if you're relative local so I live in Salisbury they're my closest Premier League club and quite often Andy Gillies who's based down in the southwest and does football production for us we are on games together and when Ken hears we're coming we actually even get sort of I would say even more red carpet treatment than you got because we get the homemade Dorset apple cake that I think is made by Ken's daughter and it is absolutely sensational.
26:43Ali Bruce-Ball:Honestly, and the looks you get when you're eating that at half-time, and everyone else has gone inside to get what they get, and our Dorset apple cake arrives on the Five Live desk. I mean, Ken is a proper legend for doing that. We do get brilliantly looked after there.
26:59John Murray:Well, that's an upgrade on your four fingers.
27:01Ian Dennis:Yeah, well, there's a... So now Bournemouth are involved in European football. That means that they should be playing... Bournemouth never get selected. A Bournemouth home match is never selected for the 4.30 kick-off on a Sunday. I can't remember when the last one was. So now, they should be in that slot more regularly on the basis of the football that they play as much as anything.
27:26Ali Bruce-Ball:John's making a serious pitch for some Dorset applicant there, if you're listening.
27:31Ian Dennis:No, first and foremost, Ali, I'm thinking of the feast of football that Bournemouth under their new manager, Marco Rosa. I'm sure he'll carry on from where Andorra Hiraula leaves off.
27:44John Murray:You have to say, though, don't you, for Bournemouth, for Sunderland, the fact that they have got into Europe as well for Regis Labris, and even though they missed out on European football, Keith Andrews as well to get Brentford to ninth. I think Bournemouth, Sunderland and Brentford, for what they've achieved for their respective aims this season, has been excellent.
28:06Ali Bruce-Ball:Absolutely right. so that's the Premier League season wrapped up as Ian mentioned earlier just remember that before the World Cup we are going to do a TCV Q &A special so if you've got any questions ahead of the World Cup please do get in touch tcv at bbc.co.uk I think that's the first time I've given the email address in the pod actually and the voice notes as well on WhatsApp to the Football Daily number that is 08000 289 369
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30:16The Commentator's View on the Football Daily with Alistair Bruce Ball, John Murray, and Ian Dennis.
30:24Ali Bruce-Ball:Right, our Clash of the Commentators title decided what a thriller is on the way, but now we're really pleased to bring you a special feature interview on the commentator's view this is john murray who's had a sit down chat with the gareth southgate actor joseph fines from the new bbc drama dear england it's based on james graham's olivier award-winning player the same name so having played gareth southgate on stage and now screen it is a role that has taken up a lot of Joseph's time over the past few years. It has. It is years of my life. It's the waistcoat that keeps giving. And I'm very lucky to have participated in the National Theatre's rendition that then went on to the West End and now is a four-parter for the BBC.
31:09And it looks at some gnarly subjects, but through the lens of the beautiful game. It's a fictionalised event, of course by James Graham but also it is based on a lot of fact and great detailed research and so it's a testament to to his team Steve Holland and also a testament to Pippa Grange the psychologist that he brought in brilliantly played by Jodie Whittaker I should say as well because normally
31:36Ian Dennis:on this podcast Joseph we we are all commentators and the guests that we have on are invariably sports commentators, mainly football commentators. And Dear England features a lot of football commentary in it as well, doesn't it? It does. Great, great commentary by great, great commentators. And it's lovely to have their voices, which are so akin to the game. I'll let you into a little secret. I'll talk about this a little further on. But the commentary on Harry Kane missing the penalty in Qatar that appears on the stage show was my commentary. And I've got a story to tell you about that a little bit later on.
32:17Ian Dennis:But first of all, I just want to ask you, I mean, you must be a football supporter, yes? I am. I haven't had a great run this year. I thought it might be our year early on for Chelsea. Not the case at all. But John, I know that you put the commentary on and I did hear that maybe they asked you to come into the studio and relive some of your commentary as you had done before. In actual fact, the commentary it's used, and I was rather surprised when I watched it because I've only seen the first episode so far. And I was kind of expecting that it would be the TV commentary, but we were somewhat surprised to find that actually, even more of my original commentary, which actually appeared on the air on Five Live, is being used in the TV programme as well.
33:02Ian Dennis:so but again we'll come on we'll come on to that in a moment too because i want to know about your england supporting history as well and the reason i ask this is i know you're a similar age to gareth southgate and i know that one of his first england memories was running home from school in time to see brian robson score at the world cup in 1982 um and that's as that's a very similar memory to the first memory i have that england did a world cup because there had been that spell for a long time between 1970 and 82 when England had not qualified for the World Cups. So what about that history for you as well, your England following history?
33:39My England following history is it's almost 82, but I would say 86. I remember that moment very well. And I think for some reason, it's weird how that story is now a part of my professional acting life, as it was very much a part of my growing up and I was you know 16 and remember it very well and from then on I remember it painfully and this huge expectations that I had that I forced upon myself and those I was looking at and it is interesting how we as a nation live under this bringing it home expectation but if you look at the track record if you look at the data you know which is in a hard cold truth you have to take a step back from that high expectations um but what i what was interesting is i just saw these golden generations of players that sadly as a team never quite got beyond uh the semi-final and um or sometimes quarterfinals and it was i couldn't understand that but but but now having done the piece i i kind of feel like i've got a better handle on on you know in a very small, amateurish way of what it is to really bring not just players, but bring a team together.
34:55And I think that's where Gareth just excelled.
34:57Ian Dennis:Do you think that it was important for you to have that ingrained in you to deliver the performance that you did? That's a great question, John. Yes, I do. I think at a very authentic, emotional level, I feel tied to that pain. And I know a lot of people watching it will revisit those chapters of their lives that happen every four years on the great world stage and will be emotionally drawn in. I am emotionally attached and tethered to Gareth through that AG6 tournament. And I think as a result, it's weirdly paid dividends to an authenticity within the piece that I'm in today. You do have a remarkable similarity to him looking at you now.
35:44Ian Dennis:clearly that must have helped but you still must have had to put in a great deal of work to well tell us how you did it how did you transform yourself into gareth southgate because watching it the other night as i as i did it was um you know just some of the little things that you do i think are remarkable and you know i've i've worked with gareth southgate you know the whole time that his England manager before then you know I've seen him close up hundreds of times and just some of the little things that I noticed I thought I'm really I'm really surprised that you picked up on that because it's not something that I'd noticed just the way that he walks way he carried his bag over his shoulder the way he sort of moved his head well thank you John that's very kind and I wish I'd come to you when I was doing my research because I couldn't get access to the man himself and sometimes I feel if you really want to access somebody you need to talk to those who know that person.
36:39And thank you for your kind words. I looked fastidiously for hours at interviews and how he carried himself. That's only part of the picture because that's in front of cameras and it's all, you know, very much dialogue, which is rehearsed. You know, people come out and they say it's a game of two halves and you never really get to really access the person. But I felt I accessed him through his audio book. So I listened to that And he gave a lot away and then some one or two interviews that he gave on a more personal note. And there was so much beyond the mannerisms that I wanted to get as well.
37:19So once I found I got that conceit down, my job is to get the audience to at least halfway believe they're looking at the man himself. So then we can get onto the more interesting subjects beyond mannerism, which is both his critical juncture that comes from 96 and and how he could pick himself up and go into the most extraordinary pressurized job. Having had that history, I think, shows great bravery, strength and leadership. So it's really articulating those points as much as the mannerisms, the interior of the man.
37:50Ian Dennis:Yeah, I have a feeling that perhaps it's only once we see what happens next and further down the road that maybe we do properly appreciate what it was that he did. Because, as I say, having dealt with him so much over the years, he's probably as thoughtful a person in football that I've had dealings with, yet at the same time is a hard-nosed football manager. So there is a balance there as well, isn't there? How often have you actually crossed paths with him? I had the absolute pleasure of meeting him in a kind of strange circumstance, which took me by surprise. It was sandwiched between having finished the play, which was almost, well, it was almost a year of my life.
38:39And then beginning the BBC series just before filming. And I was at a King's Trust event and he's an ambassador as I am. and I was just about to go on stage to award these young entrepreneurs a prize and um and just before I stepped on I got a tap on the shoulder and I looked around and a meter from where I was standing was the face that I thought I was and I so I had this strange out-of-body experience and became very gushy and asked for a selfie which I never do you know not even from Al Pacino would I ask for a selfie but if it was Sir Gareth um I did uh because I just feel feel in an intrinsic level I have such deep respect for his mentorship and prowess and thoughtfulness and articulation and kind of gentle strength and the way that he composes himself.
39:27And I think that's a big lesson for all of us and fans. And within mentoring, it's how you deal with disappointment and how you deal with the win as well. But invariably, there's always going to be a loss. And I think for the players and for the fans it's it's how we compose ourselves is is key and he's got great composure
39:48Ian Dennis:i can tell you joseph that one of the interviews that i most remember doing with gareth southgate was after the final in germany in berlin euro 2024 when we obviously just finished on commentating on the match england have lost this is it we know we pretty much know that that's it the end for gareth southgate came down to the interview area which is right next to the england dressing rooms and he's already done a couple of interviews but he's then gone back into the dressing room and obviously spoken to the squad and you know that must have been talk about the depths of when you reach the point where you think well this is the end we've got so close and we've not crossed the line dressing room door opens and he comes straight over and and speaks to me and having having dealt with him so often the fact that he was able to handle himself with again such graciousness at that moment was was remarkable i've never heard that interview back but i must do that sometime and have a listen back to it because you know that that kind of summed him up that he was able to hold himself as he did at the point at that point i bet though when he saw you because he's got a very wry sense of humor i bet he saw the amusing side of that didn't he i think he did he had he had a twinkle in his eye as he tapped me on the shoulder and he took me by surprise and I think he quite liked that.
41:09John, I'm definitely going to search for that interview because I think that's at the heart of this piece is that kind of value of leadership. And it's interesting that James Graham has set this at a time where it's sort of Brexit and COVID and the revolving doors of power at number 10 and a lack of leadership, if I may say. And here we have a man who was an unassuming caretaker who came in but kept the moral line and leadership in the most gentle, unassuming and powerful way. And it's for good reason he's knighted, I think. But, John, I'm definitely going to look at that interview. That would be really moving for me to see that.
41:49Ian Dennis:It's funny as well you should say that because during the course of that time, very often Gareth would be asked difficult questions about all manner of things when he was in the public spotlight. And very often it was said, and I heard it said, that perhaps he almost would be well served to be in a position like that. Because, you know, the different issues and subjects that he had thrown at him over the course of the time that he was England manager. I don't think any other England manager has had to deal with that. Let me tell you as well about my personal experience, if I may be allowed to do that.
42:27Ian Dennis:Yes, please. So when the premiere first happened for the stage show, various colleagues, friends were at the premiere. And I remember that night being texted and said, your commentary is in it. And I thought, wow, I wasn't expecting that. This was complete news to me. And of course, as the production went on, different people would go and I'd keep getting text matches. And for one reason or another, they did ask me very kindly to come and go, but I couldn't because we had football matches to commentate on. and anyway eventually i got to the point where i got to take i got a ticket when it was at the prince edward theater you weren't in it it was the it was your understudy oh i'm so sorry i'm off i'm so sorry well it just so happened but he also was very very good i must say um uh and so all credit to him anyway when i'm sitting there i know this is coming up and it's obviously late on in the production when harry kane misses the penalty in qatar and it was one of the strangest experiences I've ever had because I know I've done it it's it's the however it's going to appear is you know what appeared on the air I've got no investment in this other than sitting and hearing it but as it got closer I actually got more nervous and more nervous and then it's when at that point when it comes out and it's it's booming out across the theater I was just sitting and they're thinking, don't cock it up.
43:54Ian Dennis:Don't cock it up. And again, I very rarely listen back to myself. So I wasn't sure what it was that I was going to say. And then it happens and you get through to it. And it was almost like a massive relief. And I thought, oh, thank goodness for that. So it's interesting. So that was the actor, Guna, I think, who played you. But it was your words verbatim. It's the actual thing that played on Five Live. It's the actual thing. So it was your voice. It's the real commentary. It's me. I see. And it's the real commentary, which is... That's amazing. And you felt palpably nervous as it was playing out.
44:34Ian Dennis:Yeah, which was going to lead me on to, you know, when you watch yourself back, which you must do, you know, you've done that for years and years and years now. How do you feel when you watch yourself back? And then when this appears on screen or whatever production it is, whatever film it is, how do you feel about that um i it's interesting i there are two angles one is i'm uncomfortable with it that's the first thing i think we all are i think so it's it's not really super i don't think it's a natural human thing to have to see yourself back i mean if i can i can distance myself if it's a character um but then i get caught up in the choices i made or the choices the editor and the director made and so there's all of those sort of more production-based questions but bottom line is i'm i'm deeply uncomfortable with it and and it's it make it does stress me so i don't tend to do it and it's even more stressful when you're in an auditorium full of thousands of people watching it's excruciating quite frankly john and i'd far rather be at the bar yeah do you know what i totally agree with that i'd find it excruciating to listen back and that's yeah that's why and i can't imagine i know gareth hasn't seen this and i can't imagine he always said he wasn't keen because he he was doing the real thing yeah exactly he's been doing the harder job i i hope that if anyone that sees it that that knows him well like you do or or players or family or even him himself as i i said to him when i last saw him this really is a celebration of your extraordinary mentorship and yes it's a drama and yes it's an approximation and we'll get things wrong and it's a little bit fantastical but at its core we hope the messages that we get across are vital and what he would agree with and and I hope um I hope he is honored of the honoring that we're doing him and James has done him because he really is for us a hero yes James Graham who I heard Nick Robinson describe as almost the national bard when you did your interview with him.
46:36Ian Dennis:Yes. One other question is, have you ever fancied turning your hand to football commentary? Oh my God, I tell you what I would die for is to sit next to you and just listen to you live at a game. If there's any way, John, you might invite me one day to whatever game. I would love to hear an expert and be present with them. That would be great. I think it's one of those things, football commentary probably like acting in that probably people think and rightly so think i could do that yeah i know no no no i think there's a dexterity and also just remembering all those names uh you know i i'm more that's one thing i'm like my god has this gentleman done their homework well you say you say that i watch you guys going out onto the stage and i think don't fancy that Listen, we'll try and get you along to Stamford Bridge with us one of these times.
47:36Ian Dennis:That would be brilliant. I would love that. It's a great position we've got at Stamford Bridge. I don't know where you go at Stamford Bridge, but it's right up the top of the main stand. Matthew Hardingham. Oh, yeah. No, it's a brilliant view we have there. So that would be a lot of fun to do that. But listen, I hope that people are able to go back on iPlayer, watch it, and enjoy it in the way that already millions and millions of people have, whether it's on the stage or on the screen. I hope so. And thank you for your wonderful participation and collaboration with us as well, John. What a lovely interview.
48:08Ian Dennis:Yeah. And I think that was the, because he was doing the rounds that morning and this was going to be the last one. So, you know, that can go two ways, can't it? But I mean, we actually spoke for a good deal longer than that. And, you know, he was great company. It would be a lot of fun, as I said, to get him along to a football match.
48:30Ali Bruce-Ball:That last point, John, is an interesting one, isn't it? About the element of performance in the football commentator's role and the actor's role. Because obviously they're following a script and have got to infuse it with emotions and feelings and drama, whatever. And ours is completely improvised, but we are just describing what we see. But there is an element of, there's definitely an element of performance in both. which is why you think someone like Joseph Fiennes and the actors, if they had the knowledge, could do it.
48:55Ian Dennis:Well, I've always thought that, and I think I've said it to you two before, that what we do is a performance. It's an unscripted 90-minute performance, and that's just the match, never mind everything else. And I think there will be similarities between what we do and doing a performance on the stage. I think it'll be the same thing. We know we say it all the time. There'll be bits that you think, oh, that went well tonight. and other bits where you think, hmm, could have done that better. So, you know, the similarities are certainly there.
49:26Ali Bruce-Ball:Well, if you want to watch it, it's on the iPlayer, and it's called Dear England, and it's definitely something I'm going to do, and it's brilliant, it was brilliant to have Joseph Fiennes on the pod in conversation with John. Let's rattle through some quick correspondence before we... We're doing a big build to this, the Clash of the Commentators title decided today. Whichever way this goes, well, if it particularly goes one way, there's going to be court cases and appeals, and I mean, it's never going to end. But anyway, we weren't going to do an unintended pub name this episode until this dropped into our inbox.
49:55Ali Bruce-Ball:This is from Gareth Barlow. Not that one. Hi, guys. Absolutely love the pod. Although not football related, I thought you might enjoy the commentary from the recent Cooper's Hill cheese rolling competition. I don't know the name of the commentator, but he manages to cram in some absolute gems in the short time he has as dozens of people chase a wheel of cheese down a very steep hill. Here they go. 2026 is underway. The cheese goes off to the right-hand side of shot. Chris Anderson looking good as he's been cut off. He's gone head over heels for a double Gloucester. Tom Kopka has won it for Germany.
50:34Ali Bruce-Ball:Gareth says my particular favourite might even be an unintended bar name, Head Over Heels. I imagine this would be where hopeful romantics meet for their first date and the staff place bets on which couples will make it back for a second date. P.S. Great to hear that John has finally got justice after all this time. Thanks, Gareth. Also, our Rhys story arc, chaps, looks like it's reached a nice conclusion. So this is where we found we had two listeners called Rhys. This is where we found we had two listeners called Rhys. Same spelling, both from East London, both West Ham fans and both from the 90s.
51:06Ali Bruce-Ball:So we were looking for ways we could distinguish between them. This message has come in, which reads, Dear TCV, it's one of the original two Rhyses here. I'm incredibly jealous of my counterpart's surname, Mavericks. I can just imagine him jumping in his jet-like Tom Cruise and zooming off to the London Stadium. To distinguish myself, I'd like to take up Ali's idea of being known as Reece the Iceman. This is because my other sporting love is Formula One, where I listen to the BBC's Checkered Flag podcast, and Kimi Räikkönen was my favourite driver before he retired, and he shared that nickname.
51:37Ali Bruce-Ball:I'm also blonde, just like Top Gun's Iceman. Concerning our new member of the Reece Collective, the Welsh spelling Rhys. I think we should welcome him with open arms to our club, along with all other forms of spelling. The more Rhyses, the merrier. Loving the pod as always, Rhys, the Iceman.
51:54Ian Dennis:Also, our TCV Dog 11 is taking shape. We have so many listeners with dogs who have links to football. Dave from Newcastle upon Tyne has written in. Hi, I'd like to suggest my dog for your team. Tino is our six-year-old black-and-white collie obsessed with balls. As Newcastle United fans, we tried a number of names which were rejected by my non-footballing wife, Pauline. She dismissed Jackie, as in Milburn, and Alan, as in Shearer. I'm not sure about Alan as a dog's name. Because she saw the direction of travel. However, she hadn't heard of Tino, and we got away with it. Although it fits well with the present Tino, he was actually named after Asprea, so needs to have a free roll up front.
52:49Ian Dennis:And he's a bit of a maverick, so probably not captain material.
52:54Ali Bruce-Ball:Very good. Dave, thank you. Chris in Sydney's left us a voice note. Hi, TCV team. I would like to nominate my Australian Terrier, Dave, for the dog team. There are two grounds for Dave's nomination. Firstly, his full name was Uncle David Seaman Chippendale Donaghy Natalie. He was named by a family committee who just added names over the course of his 18 years. My contribution, of course, was the former Arsenal and England goalkeeper. The second ground relates to Dave's severe but thankfully short-term football injury. In December 2000, Patrick Vieira equalised for Arsenal against Spurs. It was 6am in Sydney and I watched in bed.
53:35When the goal went in, I jumped so high that I landed on the floor, right on top of where Dave was sleeping. It took us both two days to recover from our respective leg injuries. Anyway, love the pod and please keep going over the off-season. Oh, and P.S., I believe that pup Guardiola may now be available for the coaching role. Thank you.
53:57Ali Bruce-Ball:Before clash of the commentators, good email from Kenneth in Glasgow, which sums up this season of the commentator's view quite nicely. As a TCV ever-present, I continue to enjoy the pod immensely. However, the membership criteria is stretching me to the limit. In an attempt to remain relevant, I recently moved to Adelaide and once I got settled in, bought a Labrador called Robbie. Thinking I'd ticked all the boxes, I now find that Robbie has to be affiliated with a football team in the hope of making it into the Dogs 11. I assure you I'm working on this, but currently a bit preoccupied with the myriad of form-filling required to change my name to Rhys.
54:30Ali Bruce-Ball:Also, how does one go about changing their allegiance to a football team? Do I have to write to West Ham directly, or is it simply just a personal choice? Any advice would be gratefully received. Keep up the good work. Rhys and Robbie in Adelaide, formerly known as Kenneth from Glasgow. Very good, Kenneth. Proving TCV credentials there across everything. TCV at bbc.co.uk. Right, here comes the big moment then. On to our clash of the commentators title decider. I had a little look at the league table and wondered, given that I've got eight wins and John's got eight wins, why I couldn't be involved in this.
55:03Ali Bruce-Ball:but I've played 17 games and you two have played 16. So that is why I've already played my full allocation of matches. Our league leader, Ian, is on a four-match losing streak and has opened the door to John Murray to a potentially share of the title for this season. So it really is all on this. The Justice for John campaign has been out in full force. We'll get to it in a moment, but first, a couple of messages of support. Firstly, from Kevin in Whitstable. It seems I'm in a camp of one that's supporting Ian all the way through this. I wanted to voice my support as he comes forward into this new title decider, which I don't think it should be anyway.
55:44And I hope Ian wins to put everything right and square, which is as it should be. Fair is fair. Team Ian, come on, make it work. Hello to the Holy Trinity from Carmen in Bromyard, Herefordshire. If you're listening to this, then I'm amazed because I have no idea what I'm doing when it comes to these voice note thingies to send a message to John. Message reads, let it go. Hashtag Team Denno. Cheers.
56:16John Murray:Come on, Carmen. Well, thank you, Carmen. And thank you, Kevin. Your support is greatly appreciated. I feel a little bit like Hull City going into the playoff final. And indeed, like the whole owner, I might have to say that should it not go my way, then we might have to take it to court.
56:35Ian Dennis:I hope it's going to be more exciting than the championship playoff final.
56:39Ali Bruce-Ball:Yeah. So here's how it works. Two of us taking turns to answer a question and give us many correct answers as we can in 30 seconds. So in this showpiece title decider, who is going to go first? Well, Ian, as the league leader, should decide that.
56:56Ian Dennis:Okay, I'll go first. Oh, that was a big call. Big call, big call, big call.
57:02Ali Bruce-Ball:Right, so waiting for John to disconnect from Budapest. Definitely need this to be, yeah, above board. I can see that the headphone socket has been disconnected. John cannot hear, and he will not be able to lip read behind our lip mics. Here we go then, Ian, the big one for you. A title you thought you'd already won, but you're now going to try and prove it again. Barcelona have this week agreed a deal worth more than£69 million for Newcastle and England forward Anthony Gordon. You just need to name any British player to have played in La Liga. Any British player to have played in the Spanish top flight.
57:38Ali Bruce-Ball:Any British? British player, British. Your time starts now.
57:44John Murray:Sammy Lee, Michael Robinson, Vinny Samways, Marcus Rashford, Gary Lineker, Mark Hughes, Steve Archibald Laurie Cunningham David Beckham Steve McManaman Jude Bellingham Jonathan Woodgate
58:14Wow
58:14Ali Bruce-Ball:That is the best I've ever heard You play the game I think I don't want to say I think you've got this in the bag He's got no chance I think I think. That was excellent, Ian. That was really measured and calm. Very good. Are you pleased with that? Well, we'll see. We'll see. Here he is. I'm back. BBC's football correspondent. Right, John, are you ready to go? Yes. Here we go, then. Barcelona have this week agreed a deal worth more than£69 million for Newcastle and England forward Anthony Gordon. I just need you to name any British player, British player, to have played in La Liga. any British player to have played in the Spanish top flight ever.
58:59Ali Bruce-Ball:Okay, your time starts now.
59:02Ian Dennis:Marcus Rashford, Steve Archibald, Gary Lineker, Steve McManaman, Michael Owen, David Beckham, Laurie Cunningham,
59:20Ian Dennis:Sammy Lee,
59:26Ian Dennis:Michael Robinson.
59:31Ian Dennis:Jude Bellingham. Oh!
59:34Ali Bruce-Ball:Oh, now. Oh, my goodness. Nathan's saying, producer Nathan, he's immediately said out of time. He said Bellingham was out of time. That could be absolutely crucial. That could be crucial. That's going to be tight. It's going to be really tight. And what's interesting is you've almost repeated each other's names there. You've gone, they're from various different eras of football, but you've gone for very, very similar names. So John said Marcus Rashford, correct. Steve Archibald, correct. Gary Lineker, correct. Steve McManaman, correct. That's four. David Beckham, five. Laurie Cunningham, six. Michael Owen, seven.
1:00:09Ali Bruce-Ball:Sammy Lee, eight. And said Michael Robinson. You both said Michael Robinson, which apparently is not a correct answer. So John has eight correct answers. So Ian needs eight. No, he doesn't. Well, a draw, in fact. No, a draw would win Ian the title, so eight would be enough for Ian. So here we go. Ian's answers were Sammy Lee, one, correct. Vinnie Samways, two. What an answer that is, correct. Marcus Rashford, three. Gary Lineker, four. Mark Hughes, five. Steve Archibald, six. Laurie Cunningham, seven. David Beckham, eight. Steve McManaman, nine. Jude Bellingham 10 and Jonathan Woodgate 11 convincing win that's very good very
1:00:58Ian Dennis:very good how does it feel in congratulations Ian well all I would say
1:01:02John Murray:is your title successful justice for John or justice has been done that's for
1:01:09Ali Bruce-Ball:the listener to decide neither have you said Trent Alexander Arnold no no
1:01:19Ali Bruce-Ball:Jermaine Pennant. Gareth Bale. You must have said Gareth Bale. Did they not say Bale? No, they said Gareth Bale. No one said Gareth Bale. Crikey. Well, there we go. Ian is the Clash of the Commentators champion. After all of that, all of that nonsense throughout the entire season, Ian claims the title in the end. Well done, Ian. Very good. Right. So that is it for this episode of The Commentators View. Keep those World Cup questions coming in, by the way. Our World Cup Q &A episode is out next Friday. So the email address is tcv at bbc.co.uk. Or you can send us a message or a voice note on WhatsApp to 08000 289 369.
1:01:57Ali Bruce-Ball:And remember, you can find each and every episode of The Commentator's View by scrolling down your Football Daily feed. The way he went about that, John, I've never heard him as focused, measured. The way he delivered his answers, honestly, it was pure business today. I think you deserve it for Vinnie Samways alone. I mean, that was just a sensational answer.
1:02:18John Murray:Kevin in Whitstable has been vindicated, and like Hull City, justice has been served.
1:02:24Ian Dennis:Yeah, and Carmen will be very excited as well, won't she? Sometimes it goes really slow. Like the ball's taken forever, and you already know before it goes in. You already know. But that bit, that bit before. We know that feeling. What a goal from Tony McCoy! Stolling the guy to the World Cup! The FIFA World Cup 2026. Coming soon on 5 Live and BBC Sounds. Take the leash off your laptop with the processor that gives you long battery life. Work on the go. Jump between back-to-back calls. Stay locked in from brewing morning coffee to burning the midnight oil. Get maximum performance, even when unplugged.
1:03:23Finally, the freedom to move across the room or across the world is here. Snapdragon, that's how. Spring has sprung, and big savings are in full bloom at Minaris. Visit Menards Garden Center for everything you need to get your garden growing. Choose from hundreds of beautiful, colorful flowers, lush trees and shrubs, and everything in between. Menards Garden Center is back in bloom. Stop in today to get your garden on. Check out fresh deals happening now at Menards. Save big money at Menards.
From the publisher
John Murray, Ian Dennis & Ali Bruce-Ball look ahead to the UEFA Champions League Final. Also hear John’s sit-down interview with Gareth Southgate actor, Joseph Fiennes, from new BBC drama Dear England. And who will win the Clash of the Commentators title decider? Messages, questions and voicenotes welcome on WhatsApp to 08000 289 369 & emails to TCV@bbc.co.uk
01:00 John in Budapest ahead of UCL Final, 03:20 Ali back from Leipzig after Palace win Conference League, 10:30 Ian prepares to cross the Atlantic… 12:20 PSG v Arsenal preview, 20:45 Premier League final day reflections, 22:40 Nuno stays at West Ham, 24:50 Ali’s special treatment at Bournemouth, 28:20 Interview with Gareth Southgate actor Joseph Fiennes, 47:35 Cheesy pub name & more dogs into the TCV XI, 52:50 Clash of the Commentators title decider!
5 Live / BBC Sounds commentaries: Sat 1300 Scotland v Curaçao in Friendly, Sat 1700 PSG v Arsenal in UCL Final, Sun 1500 Brighton & Hove v Man City in Women’s FA Cup Final.
