The Debrief: Arne Slot out, Luis Enrique in?

0:00This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK.

0:29Snapdragon, that's how. Ever invest in something that seemed incredible at first, but didn't live up to the hype? Like those$5 roses at a gas station, or a second-hand piece of technology that breaks in the first 10 minutes? Marketers know that feeling. We optimize for the numbers that look great, impressions, reach, and reacts. But when they don't show revenue, well, that's a not-so-great conversation with the CFO. LinkedIn has a word for that. Bull spend. Now you can invest in what looks good to your CFO. LinkedIn ads generates the highest ROAS of all major ad networks. You'll reach the right buyers because you can target by company, industry, job title, and more.

1:15So cut the bull spend. Advertise on LinkedIn, the network that works for you. Spend$250 on your first campaign on LinkedIn ads and get a 250 credit for the next Just go to linkedin.com slash broadcast. That's linkedin.com slash broadcast. Terms and conditions apply.

1:58for us that goes without saying the contribution anna has made in the time that he's been with us has been significant meaningful and most importantly to all supporters and ourselves successful our appreciation for everything he's achieved could not be greater underpinned by a work ethic diligence and expertise which underlines our view he is a leader in the field we have collectively come to the conclusion that change is necessary in order for the club to keep moving forward and they go on to talk about the the great work that he did with Liverpool players and fans and family after the awful tragic loss of Diogo Jota and his brother they talk about his compassion they talk about his humanity and then they go on and finish with that doesn't dismiss nothing diminishes the work that Arnott has done here this decision is not a reflection of his talents it's indicative of the need for a different approach so we've got Matt Upson correspondent John Murray, Chris Sutton and Julianne Le Ronde all with us it's a strange one Chris because to lose your job 12 months after winning that title doesn't feel like a long time and yet a lot of people won't be that surprised.

3:04Chris Sutton:No I mean football's absolutely ruthless isn't it and the fact that Liverpool, let's get it right haven't been accustomed to winning Premier Leagues and he wins one and then unfairly I think people out there are saying well that was Jurgen Klopp's team well you know that was Deeply unfair, I felt, but there's no doubt this season, with all the money they'd spent over the summer, what, 450-odd million, the team had really gone backwards this season and regressed, and then there was the fan unrest, and I think all things being equal, Liverpool, what they have been in this situation, they have been decisive.

3:44Chris Sutton:It's probably a question of who's next, and the name being bandied around is Andoni Areola. you know he's a guy out of a job now did brilliantly at Bournemouth maybe you know he's made himself uh available and Liverpool will go down that route but you know just going back to the start of what you said I think you know after winning a Premier League uh you know a season after that to uh to get the boot does seem slightly harsh I wonder Jules what the moment was for you when you thought, ah, could well be in Bobber here?

4:18Julien Laurens:I mean, we were together at the Liverpool PhD game, second leg at Honflin, right? And we went on a round a bit with Stephen Warnock, I mean, me especially. If you look, and I know I hear what Chris is saying, and in a way, it was Jurgen Klopp's team, and Arnestloch tweaked what he had to tweak, and he won the title good. They were the better team that season. But over two seasons, really, the first six months were very good and very successful. from February of this first season things starting to go downhill from there there's that defeat in the FA Cup there's the defeat against PSG in the last 16 with the second leg at home in the Champions League then you go into this season with all that investment

4:58Chris Sutton:but do you are we doing are we like calling things half seasons now they're either a season or they're not a season

5:06Julien Laurens:yeah but you they were starting to go downhill from that moment their second half of the first season was not good and they still won the league because they were better than everybody else and they were way ahead at the turn of the year. But already back then you could see things are not that great. Salah went off a little bit. Defensively they went off a little bit. Ravenberg was maybe not as good. And then this season with all the investment, he never found the right formula. He never found the solution. And then he made mistakes in his team lineups. And we said against PSG where Isak starting was a complete nonsense and too many times between March and May, there was too many of that.

5:44Julien Laurens:And I think the fans lost faith, the players, more importantly, lost faith. And I think that's what did it for him. The fans, you can maybe win them over. The players, if they're gone, they're gone. Do you feel he misjudged what the Premier League season was going to entail this year? Because it has been different. I know it was angling towards this direction, but I feel that the teams that have been successful in the Premier League this year, have been completely different to Liverpool in terms of their approach. I feel that, I just don't think that they were prepared for that kind of physicality, set plays, all of those things.

6:21They appear to be a little bit behind the curve. Yeah, you're right. And they're maybe doing the similar things to maybe what won them the title. But football moves very quickly, doesn't it? And the next 12 months, we'll be sitting here next year going, oh, how about this, this season? and I feel like they just didn't get ahead of what that was.

6:39Chris Sutton:But the other thing is nobody could have complained when they signed Salah on again because of his numbers. I mean, he's had a terrible season. Van Dijk hasn't been the player. He's been a man-mountain for Liverpool at the back. This season, he's gone backwards and everything has transpired to go against Swat, which is why I know Jules is absolutely ruthless and what have you, but I do I do think, I just can't, I just can't in my head just get that, I mean the fact that he won a Premier League. But nobody cares what you did last year, Chris, and nobody cares what he did last month. Mikel Arteta won a Covid FA Cup and his first couple of seasons finished eighth.

7:24Chris Sutton:I mean football's a ruthless game, I'm just saying I think that's particularly ruthless. Liverpool, the great history they have at the club haven't been accustomed to winning Premier League because the guy wins one and he gets sacked after one big play. But don't you think he's telling?

7:37Julien Laurens:We said at the start of the season on Sunday shows with Steve and Naden, the first season, and maybe it was not club's team, but that team picked itself up. There was no new signings. And really, in a way...

7:50Chris Sutton:No, you can't give him a kicking.

7:52Julien Laurens:No, no, but let me finish, Chris. Let me finish. But we said in the summer, with all those new arrivals, now it's going to be very interesting to see what he does. Because now, going back to finding solutions and finding the right formula, before that you know the back four again you were not going to change that front three you were not going to change it that midfield graven bush as a six was a great idea from slot and that worked really well and we gave him credit for it great but that second season suddenly how do you bring isak in this what do you do with this how do you play this is not most alas team anymore so he had all those question marks to answer and he never he never did it and at some point i can't see why he would do it now with more investment in the summer because they're going to go and sign new players more players because they need their transition team they're going to lose conat is jacques arriving all of that if you didn't find the solutions with the new squad last summer he's never going to do it this summer jules you said that you think he might have been able to win back the supporters i'm not sure he could maybe you are yeah and i think i think when you're the manager of liverpool and you lose what i would perceive to be the majority of the fans I don't think you're ever going to win them back because they've said you know they've had their opinions they say what they know and I think that you could have limped on into next season but you know it could have I mean who knows he might have been able to turn it around and make a different looking Liverpool team but they decided it feels the majority didn't like the way his team played and had lost faith in him and i think that's why we've reached this point you're right he this team was outrun 90 of the season yeah in europe and in the league they lacked intensity absolutely remember that bournemouth game in january when they lost 3-2 over there yeah where they were completely the third goal it goes from one box to the other nobody stopped it was just ridiculous and you think okay after that he's going to watch this and like all of us saying like this can't last we can't continue having basketball matches where we are so open, we can't run, we second best in a lot of the things and yet nothing changed.

9:57You're naming so many things against it working, new signings, the whole ESAC, how that transfer came about and the process that went through, it was always going to be emotionally difficult for him to come and deliver straight away. How unlucky he was with him. Unbelievably unlucky. And then, you know, I don't think you can actually quantify the impact of Jota. and there's no way of measuring what that has done to the squad and the club. That's a huge thing to overcome, not just the emotion of that, but obviously he was a fantastic player in a position that he drove intensity and energy and that was him.

10:35So all of these things, I do feel for him. It really has gone against him, but 12 months is a long time in football. I agree. And we had a really interesting conversation with Rory Smith earlier about grief and how grief works. we were talking about Luis Enrico having lost his daughter. With Diogo Giotta, with his teammates, there is no one way to react. Everybody reacts differently and at a different time. For some people, something like that, you feel it and it sinks in immediately. Some people won't feel it for a month or six months or two years. So nobody is underestimating that challenge.

11:09Jules, you're going to nip off for a second in a moment. Just before you do, John, I want you to sort of make the case for this before Jules, I imagine, completely shoots it down, all right? So we had an interesting conversation earlier about Luis Enrique. So Jesus Casas, his assistant, was with us on the EuroLeagues the other night. And he said the reason Luis Enrique learned English is because he wants to go to England. If PSG, wait, Jules, if PSG win the Champions League tonight, no more mountains left to climb, Liverpool job available. What's two and two? Well, I think our colleague and friend Sammy Mockbell is about to come on, isn't he?

11:46Sammy who who who might well be telling us that Andoni Iraole is likely to be the next Liverpool manager. However, it does seem quite a coincidence, doesn't it, that this news has happened this morning on the day of Champions League final. And unbeknownst to you, Steve, I've already bumped into Gilles and talked to him about it. And I said, what about what about it, Gilles? And you said, I said, no, I don't think so.

12:10Julien Laurens:Ryan, I can't be wrong, but he's about to sign his extension with PhD, with a massive pay rise. I think he deserves whether he wins today or not. It doesn't matter so much. He's on to something very special, a project that he's building, that he has built, that has great years. Two years, maybe. I don't think he's there more than another two years here. Which team do you support? Here we go. It took you that long, but I think he will come to England at some point. And I wouldn't be surprised if that some point was after when this PhD job finishes. Again, it could be in two years, a year, three years, this summer, I don't know.

12:46Julien Laurens:But I think he's very happy there. He's got everything. He's the boss of this club. They gave him the keys. He's got total freedom. And I think he's enjoying that. But he loves the Premier League. His English is very good. And he wants to coach in England one day. So watch the space because I think it will happen one day. Not this summer, I think. However, we know how football works on the other side, don't we? And these days at football clubs, people, sometimes lots of people, are employed in very high-up positions to identify the best person who could possibly be the manager of your football club.

13:19And very often they come up with exactly the same names that you and I would do, sitting and talking over a beer about who would be the best manager. And surely at the top of your list, if you are compiling a list, in your Liverpool football club, you are thinking Lewis Henry.

13:51Take the leash off your laptop with the processor that gives you long battery life. Work on the go. Jump between back-to-back calls. Stay locked in from brewing morning coffee to burning the midnight oil. Get maximum performance, even when unplugged. Finally, the freedom to move across the room or across the world is here. Snapdragon, that's how. Ever invest in something that seemed incredible at first, but didn't live up to the hype? Like those$5 roses at a gas station, or a second-hand piece of technology that breaks in the first 10 minutes? Marketers know that feeling. We optimize for the numbers that look great, impressions, reach and reacts.

14:37But when they don't show revenue, well, that's a not so great conversation with the CFO. LinkedIn has a word for that. Bull spend. Now you can invest in what looks good to your CFO. LinkedIn Ads generates the highest ROAS of all major ad networks. You'll reach the right buyers because you can target by company, industry, job title and more. So cut the bull spend. Advertise on LinkedIn, the network that works for you. Spend$250 on your first campaign on LinkedIn ads and get a 250 credit for the next one. Just go to linkedin.com slash broadcast. That's linkedin.com slash broadcast. Terms and conditions apply.