The Debrief: Carrick confirmed at Manchester United & City control League Cup semi-final

0:00On the Football Daily Podcast, The Debrief with Kelly Cates. We'll bring you reaction from St James' Park shortly where Manchester City have beaten Newcastle United 2-0. Ian Dennis, Pat Nevin and Dwight Gale all with us for this episode of the Football Daily. Shortly before kick-off, Manchester United confirmed the appointment of Michael Carrick as head coach until the end of the season. Steve Holland and Jonathan Woodgate have been brought in as part of the backroom staff. BBC Sport Manchester United reporter Simon Stone joins us now. Not unexpected news, Simon. What have they said? No, not unexpected at all.

0:38We've been waiting for this news virtually all afternoon. Manchester United have confirmed that Michael Carrick will take over in charge of the team until the end of the season. He will be supported by Steve Holland, the former England coach. Jonathan Woodgate, who worked with Carrick at Middlesbrough. Travis Binney and the Manchester United Under-21s coach, Johnny Evans who helped Darren Fletcher out over the last two games and Craig Mawson who is the goalkeeping coach it's interesting because there are quotes from Michael Carrick in this statement and also Manchester United's director of football Jason Wilcox and both of them say I know what it takes to succeed here says Michael Carrick and Jason Wilcox said he knows exactly what it takes to win at Manchester United and that is clearly a key element of this.

1:35There's been a lot of discussion about whether United are right to go for an interim rather than try and name a permanent head coach. People point to the chaos that happened with Ralf Ranić and also the fact that to some people they backed themselves into a corner when they appointed Ole Gunnar Solskjaer as the interim manager in 2018 after Jose Mourinho had been sacked. But I think what Manchester United are trying to do is reconnect itself with what the club is supposed to be. And that is a kind of a brand of attacking football that Carrick clearly was part of and understands completely. And through the formations he played at Middlesbrough is in line with, rather than this three-at-the-back formation that people thought was kind of progressive when Ruben Amirim came in, but was used in the end as a stick to beat him with.

2:33So, yes, that is the statement. Michael Carrick says there's a lot to fight for this season. We want to pull everyone together and give the fans the performances their support deserves. That has to start, I guess, on the training ground tomorrow and on Saturday when Manchester City are the visitors to Old Trafford. Yeah, it's not a bad one to start with. But when you look at Michael Carrick's career, he's played over 400 games for Manchester United. So it's not a complete break with the pass. But do you think it feels like a fresher start than maybe going with Ole Gunnar Solskjaer, who they did bring in, as you said, as interim coach before and then ended up getting the job longer term?

3:15Yeah, I think there's an element of that. I think Manchester United felt as though Michael Carrick could be a coach on the training ground. he can lead the coaching team I think there was a feeling that Ole Gunnar Solskjaer was more of a kind of watcher of training sessions rather than leading them he would probably argue against that and also there's the reality that Kieran McKenna who was also part of his coaching team is now trying to mount a promotion campaign a tip switch I think the thing about Michael Carrick is that he's connected to the club his son plays for one of the junior teams and he's been at Carrington quite a lot, Michael Carrick, to watch him play.

3:59He's also worked for the foundation. He was on a sleepover for the foundation in November. He played a legends game. So it's not as though he's been a distant figure to Manchester United. He has been around Manchester United. He's even been on Match of the Day 2, analysing Manchester United. So this is not a kind of new thing for him. And I think also that the entire coaching staff, including Steve Holland, obviously through England, Jonathan Woodgate, because he played for Real Madrid, Carrick and Johnny Evans through playing at Manchester United and Travis Binion. And by being at Manchester United, they're aware of the pressure that this club is under and probably are used to dealing with it or know how to deal with it.

4:47And I think that, as much as anything, is a big part of this because at the moment it feels as though Manchester United's in a mess. There's a lot of scrutiny on Manchester United. There's a lot of pressure to deliver results. and I just think they think the whole team around Carrick is something that can deliver their, I have to say, success, relative success. So European qualification, which was the target right at the start of the season. Dwight, Michael Carrick then appointed as Manchester United's interim head coach. We kind of knew this was coming. We'd certainly been given all the indications that it was going to happen.

5:26What do you make of the choice? Does it feel like a good match for you? Yeah, just similar to what Simon said, really, I think the fact that he's been around it and he's obviously seen what's been going on inside the club sort of thing, I think that's going to be a pivotal thing for what he likes to change, as well as someone that brings an exciting type of football that obviously the club are demanding, really. The fans want to see an exciting game where lots of goal scoring and attacking sets of play. But I think obviously knowing what he was like at Middlesbrough and the way he was able to develop the team there, I think he should have all the tools.

6:08And like Simon said, with the people coming in with him, they will give him the little helping hand and also know the pressures that come with obviously managing Man United. So I think obviously that a lot of the boys in the club will be excited for a lot of new ideas. And I'm sure they'll be excited for training tomorrow, to be honest. Kelly the point you mentioned to Simon I think is interesting and I agree with you I do think it is different to say had they gone with Ole Gunnar Solskjaer had they returned to a former manager I think it would have been a backwards step it could have been perceived as a backwards step and a clear sign they were holding on for a permanent manager in the summer, now that might still be the case with a statement that Simon mentioned but the appointment of Michael Carrick feels a better choice and a step in the right direction because I think now he has effectively a five-month audition.

6:59I know he's been a caretaker manager before at Old Trafford, but this now is on his terms with his team. Jonathan Woodgate was his number two at Middlesbrough. He also played with Jason Wilcock at Leeds, but it's the Carrick connection that is key because they complemented each other so well when they were at Middlesbrough. And wherever Carrick was going to work next, I always expected Jonathan Woodgate to go with him. And I've got to say, Steve Holland is a very astute move. Deeply respected, very talented coach. I know both Tony Pulis and Gareth Southgate think extremely highly of him. Eight years he worked at the FA.

7:34He has a wealth of experience. And I don't think Carrick will be thinking, I'm here to keep the seat warm. Instead, this is an opportunity now to impress, to actually keep the job. Pat, there is one as well. Oh, there is a question as well about style of football. because that's something that everybody's raised in terms of why it didn't work out with Amarim and why Michael Carrick has been brought in. What do you expect from him? Is it similar to when Darren Fletcher came in for a couple of games and said, look, I'm just going to bring exciting front foot football in? Kind of like that, yeah.

8:11If you look at what Carrick had done at Middlesbrough, the fans generally loved him, what he was trying to do. You know, the attack-minded attitude that he's got, which is in the DNA of Manchester United now they kind of misplaced that DNA for a wee while and it didn't look like that a lot of the time and the fans are fed up with the lack of success for a long time but Manchester United fans expect more than that they expect style, they expect excitement they expect it to be a magical club and it's not felt magical for quite some time whereas I think Carrick will endeavour to bring that back as much as he can because that's who he is and he's got so much Manchester United history with him as well I'd like to underline I so much agree and maybe even push it further forward what Daniel was saying there this could almost be a dream team and I think that sounds to a lot of people like pushing it but I think Steve Holland is a fabulous fabulous appointment alongside Woodgate as well and I've no doubt in my mind, no doubt whatsoever when they've chosen him to take it to the end of the season it is absolutely with the hope it will go well enough and I think if they do get top four or if it's five in the Champions League I think that will be enough for them as long as they're playing exciting football to keep them in the job if they want to take the job on after that I do think Manchester United fans whether they are or not they should be excited by this this looks like a return to something that feels like Manchester United Simon Stone is still with us Simon, what happens now with Manchester United?

9:45This is an interim appointment So is it, as has kind of been suggested in this conversation, a sort of audition for Michael Carrick? Or do they look to bring in someone, make it a completely fresh start again in the summer? And obviously in the very immediate future, as you mentioned earlier, it's a Manchester derby at Old Trafford on Saturday. Yeah, I'm interested with what the guys are saying there. I mean, if you just use one example, Oliver Glasner, his contract is up at the end of the season at Crystal Palace. he's obviously done very well at Crystal Palace he did well before that at Eintracht Frankfurt he would be I assume somebody who Manchester United will look at well let's wind forward if Michael Carrick qualifies Manchester United for the Champions League and at the same time Oliver Glasner follows up losing to Macclesfield in the FA Cup by getting knocked out of the Euro Conference League in the play-off round for instance which is where they've ended up and then finished 13th in the league.

10:48Well, how do you sell an appointment of Oliver Blasner when you're taking the job off Michael Carrick? And that is the situation. It's easy to sit here on the 13th of January and say, oh, well, this is what we'll do at the end of the season. It gives us a good chance to look at things. Because football gets buffeted, as everybody knows, on a weekly basis or twice-weekly basis by results. and that affects you one way or the other and can affect you markedly. And that has, in a way, affected Manchester United because let's not forget, it's only 18 months ago that they won the FA Cup and before that they won the League Cup as well.

11:27So it's not as though they're without silverware in recent times. They have won things. It's just that recent performances have not been good enough. And coming back to that, yes, it's the Manchester derby at Old Trafford on Saturday, but after that they've got a game at Arsenal. Now those two games, that is a pretty hefty baptism of fire. They're seventh in the league at the moment but we all know the league is very tight. It's easy to see a situation where those two games don't go right. Manchester United end up in the bottom half of the league and then the next game is against Fulham and there's already a fans group that's prior to everything around this but after the dismissal of Ruben Amorim have said they're going to use that game to protest against the ownership.

12:16So you can have a situation in game three where this kind of great coaching team, and I accept it looks really good, is suddenly faced with this toxic atmosphere and they have to deliver results out of that. And that is the thing about football for everybody. Having a plan for the end of the season is great, but you have to deliver results now. and that is the thing that Michael Carrick will have to do and he will know that. So he might have designs on staying off, but he needs to look at Manchester City, then he needs to look at Arsenal, then he needs to look at Fulham and in the end, he'll see where he is.

12:53And Simon, just one on what happens in this transfer window, just over two weeks to go until it closes. Is there any suggestion that Michael Carrick will have any say in terms of who comes in or what's needed Or is that something that we have learned from the comments of Ruben Amorim, that that is something that maybe a head coach doesn't get involved in? Maybe that's something a manager would get involved in. Well, that's a very good question. And Manchester United have kind of stressed for months now that they would only buy someone in the January window if that player was part of their bigger picture.

13:32and that is I think one of the causes of tension with Ruben Amarin that they were willing to enter a market for Antoine Simeno knowing that he was going to cost£65 million but also knowing that he was one of the players that they would like to target and I think having missed out on him I think Ruben Amarin then said well if you're willing to pay£65 million for that player well can I have some of that money to strengthen my squad Because I can think of, well, I can certainly think of one example in Joshua Xerzi, who Roma were convinced that he was going to join them in January. And I'd be surprised if Xerzi wasn't kind of keen to go back to Italy on the basis that he's still not really playing for Manchester United.

14:21Now he's coming off the bench. So I could see that going. I could see that happening. But for him to go, someone else has to come in. And I think Amerim was saying, well, I can find some players with that 65 million that would really help me. And Manchester United said, well, we're not doing that because we're only bringing in players who are part of our bigger picture. And that is one of the reasons why Amerim, I'm told, lost his cool when he was talking to Jason Wilcox. So, again, there's two elements to it. You can understand completely why Manchester United don't want to be deviated away from a bigger picture because they've had so many bad signings going back years, predates Sir Jim Ratcliffe by a long way.

15:07But equally, if you need results, then you need players who can deliver those results. Thanks very much to Simon Stone, our Manchester United reporter. Pat, one of the things that the owners have been very clear about, even if they are criticised for maybe not outlining their plans quite as clearly as the fans would like. One of the things they have been open about is that this is a temporary job for Michael Carrick, at least for now, because that could change between now and the end of the season. It's really clever. It's a really sensible move. I think it's intelligent of them to do that. They've not always done the things that have sounded that intelligent, but they've given themselves five months of breathing space.

15:50they've given themselves five months to consider they've given themselves that period of time to see what is available and also the possibility that this might work which is every possibility that it'll work so yeah but from every way it makes sense your second to last question there I thought nailed it completely and I think what you were getting at who chooses who makes the decision in January if they need some more players will there be more players coming in and if they are isn't the ones that Michael Carrick wants or isn't the ones that are part of this bigger picture and is controlled from above and that's that's exactly why Amaroon went I don't think there was any other big reason why he was going because they were sticking by him before that but when he wanted that amount of control and he wasn't given that amount of control that was the finalisation of that relationship so what happens now with the current group I couldn't even push that further forward if it goes well with the current group what happens in the summer?

16:47Do they then get that sort of choice? These are some of the big decisions that we need to make in that time. But the more important one is, the one you were alluding to, is what do you do in January? Because obviously Manchester United need strengthening. They accepted that themselves when they were going to go in for Semenyo. So, who makes the decision? And Michael Carrick, of course, has been in the backroom staff at Manchester United before. His only other managerial job, though, was at Middlesbrough. He managed the team for three seasons. and BBC Sports Tactics correspondent Umir Irfan joins us now to give us some insight into how Carrick's Borough teams would set up.

17:22Evening, Umir. Evening, you're good. Yeah, good, thank you. So tell us then, what can Manchester United fans expect from, I mean, given that there is going to be a degree of flexibility in this, but what can Manchester United fans expect given what he did at Middlesbrough? Yeah, I think when you look at Michael Carrick as a coach and as a manager, you kind of have two versions of him. So you have the middle version and you have the interim coach at United. They're quite different. So at United, he was very adaptable. He played three games against some of the best coaches. I think Arteta, Thomas Tuchel and Unai Amri, if I'm not mistaken, and he got results, I think, against all of them in very adaptable ways.

17:58He set up, I think, every single game of those three games in a different fashion with game-specific tweaks to kind of nullify their biggest strengths. And I can speak about that in more detail later. I think the biggest sort of thing that we can take away is his Middlesbrough side. He said repeatedly in his interviews that he wasn't willing to kind of change his idea. And he had a game model there that he wanted to persist with. And that was kind of a longer term project. So he essentially set up in a way that we've seen a lot of the young and up and coming coaches set up. High possession, very positional, wanting his players to kind of stay in specific zones and have certain roles.

18:37and then that looks similar to kind of what we see now at Chelsea with Liam Rosinha and Maresca before him, a 3-2-2-3 shape on the ball. But again, generally that depends with a sort of back 4-4-2 shape is how he tended to set up his sides out of possession as well. And that's not dissimilar to what we generally see, but I think his tweaks in that side and which plays he put in certain positions is where he'll differ from someone like Ruben Amrim, who again played with that back three in possession but in a very different way often with two natural wingbacks um you know Carrick often pushed one of the fullbacks up and moved one of his wingers inside closer to goal and then on the other side had a natural winger holding that width so I think he'll profile his players in a more naturally attacking manner he's got a general sort of high possession style of play that he wants but it'll be up to the player quality that he has at United in order to break down stubborn defences because that's where his team's got a little bit stale in the last season at Middlesbrough.

19:39Amir, who do you think, I know you said that the way he plays, the way he sets the team up might not be so different from Amarin, but the personnel he puts in might be different from him. So who do you think is going to benefit from Michael Carrick coming in? Yeah, I think he'll simplify things to begin with. I think he'll look at where players are often doing their best work. I think Bruno Fernandes is probably the biggest one with him playing in that sort of midfield duo under Ruben Amrim in a quite defensive and industrial role. I think if you can get him higher up the pitch and closer to goal, that would be the best thing in terms of his goal output.

20:14I think generally Carrick will want two players in and around the number nine. At Middlesbrough, he played with sort of a more technical, smaller striker. I mean, he had the option between a taller striker or a more technical option. And he has that again with Cesc Oun and Mbumo. So Mbumo can possibly play as the number nine with rotations coming around him. Kunja running off him and attacking the box. Bruno Fernandes again running off him and attacking the box. I don't think he'll see Amad Diallo dropping in and putting in as hard of a defensive shift as he's asked to do under Ruben Amrume either.

20:48he'll be somebody who either plays as a touchline winger or in one of those attacking positions behind the striker. Carrick does ask one of his wide players to drop in and form a back five at times if teams are committing a lot of players to attack but generally it looks like a 4-4-2 so I do think the attacking players will be the main beneficiaries and obviously sorry the last one would be Kobi Mainu I think we saw Carrick spoke very highly of him and he mentioned in an interview with Rio Ferdinand about the principles at Manchester United being key, having somebody from the academy. And we've heard a lot about United DNA being important.

21:24Some people almost talking about it as kind of a non-issue and tactics and a game model being more important. But I think Carrick has his ideas. He has his shape and he has his game model that he's unwilling to waver from for a long-term project. But he's very adaptable and he has the principles of Manchester United within that, that he'll adapt to sort of a more modern, applicable style of play that hopefully gets United more success. Umir, thanks so much for joining us. Really good to talk to you.

21:57My name's Steve Bradnell, assistant manager at Royal Oak FC. You may have seen me online going viral. Viral sensation. And now the BBC have given me the chance to set the footballing world banterized. This could be a great opportunity for us, lads, a podcast for the BBC. Can I just say, what's a podcast? Brilliant. Great start. Well done, Bob. Brilliant. We can completely show utter transparency to Royal Oak fans. I'll use my charm. Gift it, Gab. Game's gone. The Steve Bracknell podcast. Watch on YouTube. Listen on BBC Sounds. On the Football Daily Podcast, The Debrief with Kelly Cates. It's ended.

22:42Newcastle 0, still Manchester City 2 in the first leg of the League Cup semi-final at St James' Park. Pat Nevin and Ian Dennis at St James' Park for the game. Dwight Gale is with us as well. Denno, tell us how they did it. It was that Ryan Cherky goal that now gives them a cushion ahead of the return leg in three weeks' time. But I think, Kelly, that the tie swung in a three-minute period early in the second half. James Trafford made a fantastic save from Whistler's looping header. and Guimaraes hit a post for Newcastle before Doku set up Semenyo for a tap-in after 53 minutes. Semenyo thought he'd scored again after 62 minutes.

23:19However, after the corner from the left, VAR had a lengthy look at it and it was deemed that Haaland was in an offside position. Newcastle did have a couple of other opportunities. Tonali went wide with a whistling shot. Valtomada was a fraction away from getting on the end of a diving header from Barnes's cross from the left. but that Cherokee goal in the 98th minute means that Manchester City lead by two goals to nil. They've got an extremely strong record at home in this competition. Eddie Howe, as Newcastle manager, has not scored in his last five visits there and Newcastle have suffered 11 successive defeats that goes all the way back to 2014.

23:54So it all stacks in favour of Manchester City. Dwight, was the difference this evening in terms of taking their chances between City and Newcastle? Yeah, I definitely think that was the sort of outcome of the game today. Obviously, a few chances in the first half for Wissler and a few chances towards it in the second half for obviously Wissler again. And Wautomada and obviously Tonali had a half chance as well. I just think obviously they restricted Haaland to minimal chances or minimal opportunities, which is a big thing with Man City's play. but they've obviously brought in Semenya to add to the goals and Cherokee's been in with the goals and assists this season.

24:40So the fact that they brought in that option gives them something different, which was an important thing for them when they are obviously struggling to perhaps get runners in behind with Haaland sometimes when teams maybe set up to stop that. That's obviously another option that they brought in, which is going to be massive for them from now to the end of the season. So I think that was the sort of difference. And obviously losing Jacob Murphy, I think, in the first half was a big one again because I think it gives them a bit of a better balance with someone who likes to go on the outside on the right-hand side.

25:17Whereas obviously when Harvey Barnes is more of a left-sided and doesn't enjoy going on the outside as much when he plays on the right. And then even when Elanga comes on, he likes to cut inside a lot more. So I think losing that bit of balance going forward was a bit difficult for Newcastle. And then they obviously went for it at the end. But they paid the price, obviously, on the running out of a bit of gas. And obviously, Man City are so strong with their chances that they create. And obviously, he took that and it puts him in a difficult position for the next leg, really. Yeah, there's so much quality of that Manchester City side.

25:55And as Dwight mentioned there, Pat, Antoine Semenyo has come in, two goals and an assist in his first two games for Manchester City. A rule change just recently meant that he was able to play, even though he's played for Bournemouth in this competition already this season. But it was just, as well as the goal, it was just an all-round, another really good performance for him. It was. We were watching near the end of the game there, and he had a 40-metre run up the left-hand side, just in front of Ian Dennis and I here. And we both almost gasp at the way he goes, the pace he gets past Trippier and leaves him for dead and doesn't seem to be trying.

26:35Now, it's not that Trippier was slow. It's that he was lightning quick and it was effortless. And yes, he looked really good. He did the simple technical things which a good player should do, i.e. he traps the back post when it's coming down the other side and he gets to tap in for that. So, yeah, very, very good from Semenyo. So I have to say, I think he was outshone by Doku tonight. Doku on the left-hand side got to the byline time and time again. And we talked before the game, Kelly, about, well, I talked maybe. I was pouring on about it. The fact that, you know, that left-hand side where Doku playing against Lewis Miley might be our interesting one to watch.

27:10Well, the first few minutes, Doku got beyond him. Then after that, never got beyond him. And that was the problem because when Doku got the ball wide for the first goal, It wasn't Miley, it was marking him. It was Barnes that had come back to mark him and just got a winger's marking. He just didn't mark him correctly. That's why he got to the byline. That's why he got the cross in. And that's why they scored their first goal. And again, once again, the final goal was exactly the same. It's down the left-hand side again. And they knew whether there was a problem in Manchester City and they worked it very, very well.

27:45But that's the problem. And I think Dwight's absolutely spot on there. He did a right good job in Haaland. The problem is they've got Semenyo, they've got Cherky, they've got Doku, they've got Foden, they've got millions. And that's the problem everyone finds against Manchester City. Yeah, if you stop one of them, there's a load coming up in their place. And as Pat pointed out there, Dwight, it was a really good performance from Semenyo, really good performance from Doku as well. And that relationship looks like it's starting to come together as well, even after just a couple of games at the club for Semenyo.

28:17Yeah, I mean, you can see scoring two goals is definitely going to help him settle in as a fan's favourite. And they've obviously probably already got a song that they were singing for him. So he's settled in really well. He obviously, like I said, adds something different. Obviously, Doku causes so much havoc down the wing and puts a lot of good balls into the box. But ultimately, you need someone in there who's going to give you a second option because Haaland's obviously going to be taking care of the two defenders. And that's where Semenya can come in and get the sort of tappings that he's going to get and help out with the goals.