The Debrief: England and Scotland win on American soil

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1:15So cut the bull spend. Advertise on LinkedIn, the network that works for you. Spend$250 on your first campaign on LinkedIn ads and get a 250 credit for the next Just go to linkedin.com slash broadcast. That's linkedin.com slash broadcast. Terms and conditions apply. On the Football Daily Podcast, The Debrief. Listen on BBC Sounds. England and Scotland both got wins on American soil as they prepare for the World Cup. I'm Gordon Smart and I'm joined by Ian Dennis and Stephen Warnock in Tampa, where England have beaten New Zealand 1-0 in their penultimate warm-up match before the World Cup. Ian, we got a goal from Harry Kane.

2:00But other than that, there wasn't a lot to talk about, was there? No, there wasn't. But I think, Gordon, this warm-up game was, as we'd said, ahead of the match. It was an extension of training as far as England were concerned as part of their heat preparation. They're still 11 days away from playing that opening game against Croatia in Dallas. He used two different England sides. We knew he was going to do that for each half ahead of the match, but he was all about them playing with the same structure. That was the idea. And they wanted to carry out the principles that have been set out by Thomas Tuchel.

2:32He was telling me only yesterday that they've had a good week of training down at West Palm Beach. But as you say, Harry Kane scored the only goal. It was a glancing header in first half stoppage time from the cross from the left-hand side from Jed Spence. It was a goal that means he's actually now in the top 10 of men's international goal scorers. But in the second half, there wasn't much to excite the crowd. Dan Verne had a header that brushed the right-hand post and Rio Ngomoa, the 17-year-old from Liverpool who made his England debut, the fifth youngest England player came on at half-time and he actually offered a bright spark with his trickery and his footwork down that right-hand side but as you say, England unable to add to that Harry Kane goal as they beat New Zealand 1-0 Ian, a couple of technical points I was going to bring up with you For a lot of football fans, we're seeing some new rules brought in.

3:22You know, there's the water break, but also on the substitutions, to try and avoid tactical substitutions. There's now a countdown, isn't there, to get players off. Is that the first time you've commentated on one of those new rules and how did it affect your gig tonight? It is, yeah. Well, it's not ideal when they make as many substitutions as they did today. I think with this being friendly, they were allowed to make 11 substitutions if they wanted to. but it's a new law it's a crackdown on the time wasting ahead of the World Cup so what you're going to witness when the tournament gets underway next week you're going to see 5 second countdowns for goal kicks and throw-ins but players who are substituted will have 10 seconds to leave the field otherwise they're going to get a yellow card so I think you're going to see there'll be nobody dawdling there'll be nobody sort of like kicking the heels when you see your number coming up you know you've got 10 seconds to get off the field so that's something that you're going to witness a lot because that's something that FIFA are keen to crack down on, as it is with the goalkeepers, the tactical timeouts.

4:23You've seen so many times now in the Premier League where a goalkeeper goes down in an opportunity then to give his coach or his manager an opportunity to get some instructions across. If the goalkeeper is injured, no players will be allowed to go to the touchline to receive instructions. Stephen, it might not be too easy to draw a comparison with the two teams in both halves, right? because with the weather as it was, you can't really tell how the conditionings played out. However, there were a few grimaces that the weather did play a part with the players today. Yeah, and the one thing that's interesting is that the body will adapt over time and it will get better.

5:02Listen, I'm not at the level of the players anymore in terms of fitness and that side of the game, but I've been running out here every single day trying to push myself to see how quickly you adapt to it. and every day my times are getting better, and that's just because you adapt to the weather. Now, these guys will be exactly the same because they're getting pushed every single day. They've got more data behind the scenes to make sure that they can be pushed, when they can be pushed. They've got the recovery side of things. It will have an effect. It's absolutely cooking on that pitch. I mean, even when I was down there at half-time, I was in the shade, but it was still very, very hot down there.

5:39So these players are pushing themselves to the absolute maximum, but they know if they refuel right, if they get the right energy drinks inside them at the right times, they'll be able to push themselves and keep going so it won't be a problem for these players come the start of the tournament. Stephen, Thomas Tuchel said before the game that there were 14 or 15 players in contention for a starting place. Do you think his mind will be made up after what he's seen in those two halves or four quarters this evening? No, I don't think it will. I think there'll be encouraging signs for him. I think Marcus Rashford was certainly one of those players that came here with a thought in his mind was I want to start that first game of the World Cup and I'm going to show what I can do and I think he probably thought that he knows it's a shootout between him and Anthony Gordon.

6:22I thought Anthony Gordon looked a little bit sluggish in this game and we elaborated on it in the commentary that he missed Newcastle's last six games of the season because they thought that a transfer was imminent to leave the football club so they wanted to make sure that he was available to be able to be sold. So I think there'll be more signs for him in training more than anything and where the players are at. And again, he'll be leaning on the technical staff and the sports scientists saying, OK, where are these players physically? Who can I trust to start in that game against Croatia? David Surrey's made this point.

7:02He says, don't see the point in England playing with wide players. apart from the cross by Jed Spence for the goal so many times the wide forwards are full backs get in good crossing positions then cut inside and pass it short what are your thoughts on that Stephen? I think Marcus Rashford looked lively didn't he in the first half created five chances Yeah he did but I have to agree being a former full back I hated it when wingers stood out on the wing when you go narrow as a back four and your two wide players took in and they make a three and it's quite narrow you know that they don't have much space to work with.

7:35Now if I get pinned against a touchline and now I'm in a 1v1 situation my centre half can't really come over and help me too much because then it creates a bigger gap within the back four. I'd like to see England really spread the back four out of New Zealand today and really make life difficult for them. I think it would create more opportunities for midfield runners so I have to agree with that. I think we need wingers who will hug the touchline. However, what I would say is, is Paikai Ossaka does that. He does hug that touchline. So when you think of that first game against Croatia, I'd fully expect him to be on that right-hand side, hugging the touchline.

8:11But I'd also like to see either Anthony Gordon or Marcus Rashford on that left-hand side. Really, we used to say it, didn't we? Get chalk on your boots, on the sole of your boots, hug the touchline and get them players in 1v1 situations. Great stuff, Stephen Warnock. We'll come back for more England reaction in just a second. But we're going to speak to Kenny Crawford now. Kenny, Kevin Bridges tweeted tonight he said I should have stuck a few quid in Scotland winning the tournament before this game started odds will be a bad word now what a team Kenny, the first half in particular was really impressive from Scotland this evening Yeah, four goals and just so impressive as you say Gordon and you know how people have these graphics where you can plot your way through the tournament to the final, I don't know whether people will be starting to do that in Scotland now, maybe that's going a bit far but yeah, so encouraging five minutes just on the clock Lauren Shanklin getting the ball rolling and then Scott McTominay got his goal as 15th in a Scotland shirt on his 70th appearance for his country.

9:07Shea Adams grabbed a brace, so it's so encouraging for Steve Clarke to see his front men getting goals, but also the performance of Ben Gannon-Doke with two assists. His assist to set up Shea Adams' first came from a brilliant run down the right-hand side after a really nice pass by Aaron Hickey. And then his second assist for Shea Adams' second goal was he picked the ball up in his own half and drove right through the middle of the pitch, beating a couple of players before sliding Adams to score. So just so many encouragements for Steve Clarke, Scotland. And Scotland will now head to Charlotte in North Carolina tomorrow, where their training base will be until Friday before they set up and go back north to Boston for the Haight game.

9:49But yeah, 20 shots on target tonight. Yeah, it's 20 shots, Gordon, and eight of them on target. so it's a lot to be encouraged about Excellent stuff Kenny Crawford thank you very much indeed and we're joined now by Chris Boyd incredible goal scorer and just like Stephen Warnock he's been acclimatising to the Glasgow weather this evening and running every day to see if his times are getting faster I'm sad to report that they're getting slower Things are getting slower Gordon I thought you might say that Chris first of all your reaction to that game tonight the first half in particular who will be putting smiles on the Tartan army faces this evening?

10:25Yeah, 100%. I mean, I think to score four goals in an international game, the Scotland have done it back-to-back now. I think knowing Steve Clarke, he'll be more impressed with the clean sheet. That's the way he is. It's a first in eight. But, you know, there was some really, really good performances there tonight. I thought Ben Gannon, Doak, obviously Shanklin getting on the score. Chichi Adams with two goals as well. McTominay, I mean, controlling the game from the middle of the pitch as well, Gordon. Yes, he'll go and get on the ball, but arriving late in the box getting on the end of crosses and playing a big, big part he's crucial to what Scotland are going to do you know, I mean you look at the performance tonight I know a lot of people maybe get carried away when you're looking at Bolivia and everything I mean let's be realistic Bolivia, outside Bolivia are not the best of teams but to go, to score four goals you know, Steve Klatt will be he will be delighted It's interesting, Boydie, before the game I'd written down three things that I wanted to see from Scotland tonight.

11:21One of them was Andy Robertson with really sharp delivery with the left foot. Get into the byline if he can. Ben Gannon-Doke showing a bit of pace. And I also wanted to see Scott McTominay shooting from outside the box. He strikes the ball so well. And we got all of those things tonight. Almost all of the assets that Scotland had were shown in that first half. You should maybe have done Steve Clarke's team talk from there, Gordon. He's done. It's just carried out what you've wanted. But I thought when you look at the link-up play down the left-hand side for the first goal as well and it's a lovely little dink.

11:52You know, you're taught that as a young kid. As soon as you get to the byline, just hang it up and allow your forward players to go and attack it and that's exactly what happened. Andy Robertson down there, you know he's got the quality. He just hangs it up at the back post, begging to be going to attack and that's exactly what Lauren Shatling done. Headed it into the back and a good start for Scotland. And then, you know, when you look at Scott McTominay, the areas he picks up as well, I mean, he started that move off and he's in the six-yard box. There goes an ear pod. He's in the six-yard box.

12:24You know, so Scotland had about maybe five or six players in the box as well. So that shows you that, you know, yes, we might have to defend in games in this tournament, but, you know, when we've got the opportunity to get players forward, we're going to do that. And then when you look at the pace of Ben Gann and Doak in that right-hand side, the ball across for Tia Adams, his first, was incredible. you know the weight of the pass from Aaron Hickey down the right and Ben Gannon don't just use these pace get some weight one second sorry to cut you off Boydie I'm afraid we're going to have to go back to Tampa Gary Flitcroft is with Harry Kane I am indeed the England captain is stood in front of me go on you know exactly what number goal that was don't you do you know it's 79 right only because I just got told it I actually thought I was on 75 for some reason so I'll take the extra four 100 % even after this season I saw the picks on the bench and he was like how many is that and I was like I think it's 75 but I'll take 79, I'll take the four extra for sure.

13:18And every goal is special for you, isn't it? Yeah, 100%. Whenever I wear this shirt, I want to perform, I want to do my job. My first job is to get on the score sheet and then help the team win games. So it was nice to do it with the last kick of my half and it ended up being the decisive goal. So in your mind today, was it sort of half match, half training exercise? Yeah, I don't want to disrespect the opponents. I wouldn't say training exercise, but I think it's definitely preparation for what's coming. We knew we wanted to be here because of the heat, first and foremost, which I thought we dealt with pretty well.

13:52The pitch wasn't great, so having to deal with that, that's going to happen in the tournament. So, you know, we like to play quick, we like to play sharp. It weren't always possible on that pitch, a bit sticky, a bit dry. So, experiences that we're going to have to cope with. So, from our point of view, you know, it's, what, day five into our camp. This is just another step in the preparation. Good to get the result. We always want to win, of course. But ultimately, you know, we're just building for bigger things in 10 days. And obviously you mentioned the heat. It's a key talking point. We're going to have the drinks breaks.

14:22In your mind now, are you almost playing four quarters? I mean, I know it's still too hard, but do you have to sort of change your mindset moving forward? Yeah, I think the drinks breaks help, of course. But look, I think the heat, you know, a lot of people are talking about the heat, but I don't think it's going to be as big of a factor as what some people say. You know, me personally and a few of the boys felt fine out there today and we've been training in it. It's not been too bad. I think it's easy just to say it's going to be really tough because it's a bit different to what we're used to, but we're all athletes, we're all professionals.

14:51We've all played in warm weather conditions before. So I think the preparation we've done leading up, the preparation we're doing in this pre-camp in Florida is really important to make sure we're ready come the tournament. And as you say, you want to be ready, but how important for you to get the vibe right, the spirit right in the camp? How key is that in the grand scheme? Yeah, I think that's one of the biggest things, to be honest. we talk a lot about on the pitch and talent and quality but ultimately you've got to get it all right you've got to be good off the pitch you've got to make sure you're able to train well be together for eight weeks it could end up being the togetherness is something that we've really done well in the previous tournaments it's going to be something that we have to lean on in this tournament as well and I think we've got a great squad to do that we've enjoyed our time together we've got the Arsenal boys coming I think they come tonight so it'll be good to see them and give another energy to the team, another push to the team.

15:46And before we know it, we'll be playing Croatia. Congratulations on yet another goal in this amazing season for you. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. Gary Flintoff with Harry Kane live there on BBC5 Live. And Harry Kane there, being quite honest as a former Spurs player, about looking forward to seeing the Arsenal boys arriving in the camp. Stephen Warnock's still with us. There's going to be some carry-on, I'd imagine, between the players when the Arsenal boys arrive back in camp with Harry Kane? Yeah, I'm sure there is. I'm sure it'll be all good-humoured, but I think he'll be delighted because obviously with the Arsenal boys winning the Premier League, now they know how to win things and that's the mentality that they want them to have.

16:29Then the disappointment of the Champions League will hopefully fuel the players going into the World Cup and he'll know that as well, Harry Kane, and so will the rest of the squad. and listen, what they're welcoming in is quality players and players that will have an effect on this squad going forward in the World Cup so I think it's vitally important that you get used to the conditions straight away get them on the training pitch with the players get them back integrated into the squad but you're adding more quality into the squad which is great Ian Dennis, you're a stickler for statistics and accuracy 75 goals he thought he'd scored but they're actually 79 four missing Harry Kane goals somewhere.

17:08Yeah, that doesn't sound like Harry Kane because my dealings with him, he knows exactly where he's scored, but I think he's probably scored that many for Bayern Munich and England this season. He has lost count. What he didn't maybe realise... Sorry to jump in, Ian. Sorry to jump in. Thomas Tuchel is with Gary Flintoff right now. He is indeed. Thank you, Gordon. Thomas, first of all, what did you like today from your men in searing temperatures? I like the second half more than the first half. I think we had a little bit more bite in our game and were more attacking on and off the ball and invested a little bit more.

17:43First half, we just lacked discipline in our positions and slowed our game down and we took shots and crosses from positions where we normally don't shoot and cross. But OK, listen, to put it in context, there's some guys, like a lot of players, were with us last time in November. They missed March camp, so it's half a year that they didn't play for us. We have four training sessions together. Then it's a first match in the heat and the first match on a very difficult surface. That didn't help us as a dominating team. So overall we won. We have a clean sheet and a lot of stuff to get better at, which is a good moment because we have still one more match.

18:27We will get better with the opponents getting better, with the stress coming. That brings the best out of us. In terms of your two starting 11s here today, did you mix and match it as much as anything to get your players thinking about how things might work? It was quite a mix, no? And I think that is also part of the reason why things were not so fluid and not so automatic. We just wanted to give everyone the 45 minutes and not for no one read too much into it. So, like I said, some of them played last time together in November. And today was two very different teams on the pitch. They never played together in these formations.

19:10So everything fine. I knew that it can look like this. It felt almost like, it feels at the moment a little bit like a preseason tour. and yeah, these matches. It takes a little bit of time to not get impatient now because we trained good and the energy is right. And like I said, I think when the stress level comes for our players, we'll bring the best out of them. And was the heat sort of exactly what you thought it would be and what the players felt it would be? Heat was quite something, so it was full sun. It was difficult, but it is good that we are exposed now because it's better if we feel what's coming and it's better to get used to it because it will come at some point.

19:51And no baseball cap today. Was the heat even too much for the baseball cap? Strange, no. I felt like if I wear a cap, I will sweat even more. So I found a place in the shade on the bench and stayed there. Well done today. Good luck. Thank you, Thomas. Gary Flintoff there with Thomas Tuchel. He said it feels like a pre-season tour, but the energy is right. Ian Dennis, apologies for cutting you off mid-floor. What are your observations on the manager there? Well, it was interesting where he said the second half was, he was pleased more with the second half than the first with a more bite. He felt that he lacked discipline in the first half because the chances that I'd actually written down, I thought they created more in the first half than they did the second.

20:34I think Marcus Rashford, I thought, was the standout player in the first half. You talked before to Stephen Warnock and you were saying about the 14, 15 players that are under consideration. Thomas Tuchel, ahead of the game, was saying it's for those players to convince him. I thought that Marcus Rashford, in one of those areas, because I think you've got the left side of attack, who starts in the 10, Rodgers or Belegham? If Stones is fit, I think it'd be Stones and Gahey, but that's another area where he'll be looking at it. And then you've got the right back, which I think still got a question mark over as well.

21:06So I was surprised with his comments about that. Were you not? I was, yeah, I was quite surprised. I understood what he meant about he wasn't happy in the first half with the counter-attacks that happened. There was a number of counter-attacks against England and probably too many for a team of New Zealand's quality to be able to cut through them as easy as they did. So yeah, I get that side of it, but I thought the creative side, I thought they were better in the first half, like you said.

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23:35It's a fourth cricket and it's the huge one. Jeez. Settle down, tough and sorry. Cricket on Five Live Sport. Oh, I've lived every ball of this. Listen on BBC Sounds.

23:50On the Football Daily Podcast. The Day Brief. Listen on BBC Sounds. Let's switch our focus to Scotland now, who beat Bolivia 4-0 in New Jersey. Shea Adams is with Jane Lewis. How pleased were you with your own personal performance out there this evening. Two goals? Yeah, it was nice, obviously, to score and to help the team win in an important running now for the World Cup that we're going to face. How do you feel that you linked up with Lauren Shanklin before the match? Your manager said you'd been linking up well in training, but to go out there and do it in a game must be quite special. Exactly.

24:24To see the things that we work on in training come off today, it was a pleasure to play with him and get two goals. Do you feel like the pair of you lay down a marker for that start against Haiti? Hopefully, hopefully. Obviously it's a team game and everyone has to pull in the right direction so when we're tired or when the other boys are tired the other boys can come on and finish the game. I assume conditions were quite tough out there but you seemed to cope pretty well. Yeah first half was difficult especially with the sun out but you know I thought we dug in well and got the win in the end.

24:55Just finally confidence sky high going into that first game? Yeah, hopefully. It's always difficult in these periods and these sort of conditions so I'm glad we dug in well and got the win, as I said. Shea Adams there, whose strike partner Lauren Shankland opened the scoring today. He's also been speaking to Jane. How did you enjoy linking up with Shea Adams? It was quite a fruitful partnership, wasn't it? That was good. Obviously we've had short appearances together at the time off the bench and stuff and it's been alright but today was our first shot to go from the start. I thought it worked well at times.

25:29Both of us on the score sheet, she was getting a double, so we can be pleased. Do you think you've laid down a claim for the pair of you to start up front against Haiti? That's all you can do when you get the opportunity on the pitch is put your best foot forward and give the manager a decision to make when he's picking his team. That's all you can do. Everybody in the squad knows that. We've got a really good group. There's a lot of togetherness in there, and no matter who's picked, we'll be ready. Just a final one. You saw the starting 11 today, which was strong, and then coming off the bench as well.

25:55That strength and depth is really there, isn't it? It is and the squad's always been strong. We've always had that. I've always said, no matter what role, people are being asked to play to always come on and do their best and that's all you can ask for everybody. But we've got quality. We've shown that today we have to be defensively good off the ball and then you see on the breaks and in our play going forward we're capable of scoring goals. So, as I said, really good performance and we'll be happy with that. Shea Adams there talking to Jane Lewis. Chris Boyd's with us. Sorry for cutting you off earlier as well, Chris, there for an England goal scorer.