UCL Debrief: Arsenal beaten, PSG go back-to-back!

0:00This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK.

0:29Snapdragon. That's how. Today's episode is sponsored by Smart Travel, a podcast from NerdWallet. Do you have a friend who treats airfare like a puzzle and somehow always ends up with a first-class upgrade? Smart Travel is like that friend, minus the group texts. NerdWallet's travel journalists break down the pros and cons of travel decisions, like when lounge access is worth paying for and which hotel loyalty programs actually pay off. Make your travel dollars work harder. Follow Smart Travel on your favourite podcast app.

1:28They're going to have to walk that walk. They're going to have to pick up runners-up medals very, very soon. And the shoulders have slumped because they kept themselves upright. They hung in there for 120 minutes. And in the end, it's for nowt. So myself, John Murray, Matt Hoopson, and ESPN's Julianne Laurent will be reacting to what we've just seen. And it was, Jules, a powerful moment that when the first man over to the devastated Gabriel, when his shirt was almost still over his head, was his Brazilian teammate, the PSG captain Marquinhos.

2:05Julien Laurens:Yeah, I think it shows how the class of Marquinhos to start with, and yes, they will go to the World Cup together, they're the starting centre-backs for Brazil and Carlo Ancelotti, but to think about your friend before going to celebrate with your fans, with your team as the PSG captain, for a second Champions League in a row, this is not a little competition, this is not a little trophy, tonight PSG are making history and this PSG team is going to be talked among the greatest of all time and for him to be so unselfish to go and see Gabriel like that I think shows the human being that he really is and I think that's fantastic Even for any neutral Matt that is quite hard to watch that that is heartbreaking you wouldn't want it to happen to literally anybody obviously he's such a massive part of their success he just doesn't deserve that moment yeah i'm finding it hard to watch if i'm honest i think it's really difficult to see because he's just carried so much this season his attitude his presence his personality his fight he's brought it all gabriel and he leaves it out there every time to be brave enough to step up knowing that it's probably not an amazing part of his game penalty taking but he's got the mentality and the metal to step up and do it.

3:23That just says everything you need to know that you're taking it in this kind of pressure, in this kind of moment. It's so sad for him. And just seeing his face there, I mean, he's recovered really well. I think he needed consoling initially, but you can tell he's already kind of refocusing and coming to terms with it as you have to. He's got a huge tournament to play for his country in the summer, but so sad it had to be him who's been so influential for Arsenal this season. Luis Enrique is down there waving his arms around, obviously having the time of his life, and clearly we will talk about PSG and give them all of the credit they deserve.

3:58Enrique has kept his top on this time, which he didn't this time last year when he won Paris Saint-Germain's first Champions League. They've won it back-to-back, an incredible achievement. Luis Enrique has his third, so the pantheon of great European football managers just has to throw open its doors for him now. He joins Bob Piersley, Pep Guardiola, and Zinedine Zidane on three. only Carlo Ancelotti with five has more. I'm just looking over to my left here though, Jules, and the thing that struck me is so many Arsenal players dotted around with four or five metres between them. So many of them still.

4:33Averici has barely moved. He's just sort of shuffling his feet now. It's like they're all sort of stranded in their own personal moment of pain.

4:42Julien Laurens:Yeah, there's a lot of tears as well from the players, some of them for the staff. I mean, Gabi Heinze, who's a very emotional guy, former PhD player of course it was a bit of a special game for him like for Mikel Arteta in that sense can't stop crying either he said it's a tough one to take all the time you know always the penalties in a game like this of course is very cruel they can I think also have the help by the head high sorry because the game plan worked because of you know this is this is also part of this team how difficult they are to play against I think Mikel Arteta has built a machine in terms of the defensive structure and the work rate that they have and there's something really beautiful in that but i think for this phd team they to break their dreams like that is a very difficult one to take sometimes the hardest thing to take in a final is if your team lose without throwing a punch and you just sort of turn up and you think oh we we weren't there that is not this final no arsenal gave more i was going to say gave everything they gave more than I thought it was possible to give.

5:45Yeah I agree I mean if you start to break it down on the numbers and the percentages and the possession and the passes and the attempts at goal you would think it was such a one-sided boxing matches and in many aspects it was but it was designed that way and it was designed that way on purpose to achieve a goal which was to win the Champions League and it's inches away it's in touching distance and they took it to a place where maybe they always felt or knew that it may well go to that place it i totally felt that once it went to 1-1 you thought to yourself the only really way that Arsenal's probably going to win this now is if it's on penalties and they took it there the endeavor of the players the energy the legs are gone hincapié was just immense stepping into that that role at this day just tells you a lot about him and what he's given to the team and and i just think it's just a great collective effort and like you say to finish in that way it's brutal sport at its most painful but has to happen to someone and that person's gabrielle the beret she has just collapsed to his knees i'm just looking i can see noni madwiki and declan rice taking up the exact same pose sitting next to each other arms outstretched just trying to take in what has just happened to them and the other thing that occurred to me jules is you know i know michael arteta and the way he's on the touchline i get that that's not for everybody nobody can say that he puts anything less than every ounce of his heart and soul into everything he does as a manager is it going to be even more difficult for him because in the end the way they lost it is literally the only part

7:29Julien Laurens:of a game he cannot control yeah i think you probably see it like that but he will also see the positives because that's the kind of guy that he is and the progression you know final this year semi-final last year quarter final the year before you get in closer and closer you own your first Premier League title you're the favorite to defend it next season you would be the favorite in the Champions League as well to go one further because this team add a bit more of maybe attacking power or attacking desire whatever way you want to put it and this team can have everything you know it will never be this PhD team in the way they play because that's not the style of this manager of Mikel Arteta and it's not the players for that but they will have everything and they're really not far and today is cruel and it will hurt it will hurt tonight they will go back to London tomorrow there's the parade with the fans they will show their Premier League trophy for the first time in 22 years and tomorrow already that moment with the fans and that communion with the fans with that parade will help massively and then there's holidays for some World Cup for others and then you can go again in August, but it should not take away all the great things this team have achieved this season.

8:35Arsenal just look frozen. Barely any player in red and white now is moving a muscle. It's tough. It's so tough. Been so zoned in on the pitch. I didn't notice that Chris Sutton has rejoined us. He'll be doing the commentary later on Match of the Day on the highlights. You're right, Chris. That was such a difficult thing to watch. Yeah, I mean, you know, the match was billed I think as the best attack in Europe against the best defence and it panned out that way and you know Arsenal get themselves in front and then defended brilliantly and really limited PSG to very few chances and I felt for Mosquerud had a brilliant hour before, I mean it was a penalty you know it was a foul and tucked away and Arsenal still just kept with their game plan, were very direct and it was a second ball game and it's basic football but they limited PSG to to very few chances, took them all the way through extra time.

9:33And then, look, I think penalties are a skill. People will say, well, they're a lottery, but they're not. It's about skill and holding your nerve. There will be people who will think, well, why did Gabriel take a penalty and not Madueke? But, you know, it's just one of those things. And I just feel for him because he has been sensational for Arsenal this season. You know, him and Saliba have been giving Arsenal that foundation for their success in the Premier League and the run which they've had in Europe. And it's a moment that he will always remember for all the wrong reasons, but the players will rally around him and what have you.

10:10It's still been a great season, I think, as Jules quite rightly says, but you can't get away from the fact that you're in a big Champions League final, that the chance was there and Arsenal haven't taken it. But you've got to say this PSG team, I mean, they are exceptional. how long can this run go on for? But Arsenal nullified them. But, yeah, really feel for Mikel Arteta and his Arsenal team. Three European Cups for Luis Enrique. And for Paris Saint-Germain, well, Real Madrid many times over, Milan of the 90s, Inter of the 60s, Klux Forrest, Preutz, Ajax, Eusebio's Benfica, they have got company.

10:55because they are the champions, but they've done it back-to-back, Julien Leroy, and in doing so, they're now one of the great club sides of all time.

11:04Julien Laurens:Yeah, without a doubt. And the way they've done it, last season especially, with the win and the way they played, and this season in a very different way because their position was very different, but to go back-to-back in this competition, even more now with more teams in it, it's just an incredible achievement. They're making history today. For French football, obviously, for this club, That, as you know, means so much to me, obviously, but also in football history, because what Luis Enrique has done in the last two years is just simply unbelievable. Astonishing achievement, Chris, for Luis Enrique, for anyone to win this competition once, let alone do it back-to-back, let alone do it three times with two clubs.

11:44Yeah, and Jules mentioned last year and the way that they did it. There's a lot to be admired about the team, though, because we always paint the picture of the beautiful football which they play, and they do. They have such wonderful young talent. But the way they've won it this season, they've had to show a fair bit of resilience. They did tonight. They did in the second leg in Munich, where they've really dug deep with a defensive rearguard display. And, yeah, Arsenal pushed them all the way. I mean, there will be people out there who would have felt that Arsenal's style was, you know, would it have been to have deserved had Arsenal won it playing their way and I understand that argument but it's about finding a way and Arsenal came so so close but PSG I don't think anybody would begrudge them of winning this trophy once again and you know we talk about memories a lot

12:38Julien Laurens:and we're very privileged because we get to see a lot of games and we travel everywhere and we go my two best friends are just opposite they drove from Paris last night they left at 9 p.m It took them 16 hours through the whole of Germany and Austria to be here today. My brother flew to Vienna and then missed his connection flight. Had to drive with this guy who sat next to him on the plane that I didn't know before he took that plane, who had the rental car and took him all the way here to Bredapest. And those moments there, it's cruel for Arsenal fans, of course, and one day they will be on the other side, of course.

13:08Julien Laurens:It's inevitable that this club, as someone who will win the Champions League. But for every PhD fan here, this final means a story. that story that you would tell in 10 years time 20 years time 30 a bit like last season in munich and my boys being in the stadium too those stories you would tell and you would repeat and they will make you cry because this is very very special and some of the kids and some of the players have just got onto the the pitch and they are literally dancing and knees sliding in the golden glitter that is right in the center circle here next to the big champion stage where psg have just lifted the trophy.

13:42They're now on a real sort of walk of honour in front of all of their fans. It was ever thus on a cup final day away to our left-hand side. The Arsenal fans have almost emptied away to the right. The white shirts of the PSG supporters are not going anywhere. Matt, when I was talking about Luis Enrique, whose face has just popped up on the big screen there right in front of the PSG fans, mentioned some of the other teams who have done it back to back. And you look at it through the lens of their coaches, like Brian Clough at Nottingham Forest. Some you look at it through the lens of their players, like Benfica and Eusebio.

14:19All these PSG fans will be thinking about when they wake up tomorrow morning, is when's Luis Enrique signing his next contract? Yeah, I think so. And why wouldn't you with what he's done in the time that he's been there? I mean, I think it's such a potent combination of an ambitious club with financial backing, a coach like him who's had the experience and wants to play the type of dynamic flowing football and interesting exciting football to watch and so many top young players as well he's got a lovely blend in the squad of age and I think what's interesting about them that that team and squad even bar the goalkeeper hasn't changed it just shows you the harmony to keep that settled most people would say that if you're not constantly developing it you're either standing still or moving backwards but they haven't so he's managed to get the same or even more out of the same group which is actually really rare when you're going to stay at the top of the tree you've normally got to permanently every window every six months you've got to evolve and bring new and fresh and keep it keep it there they haven't done that they've just kept that same and so he's it's stimulating that group of players enough to then go and win it again back to back, which is immense.

15:37Julien Laurens:Mentality monsters. Absolutely mentality monsters. All right, let's get some reaction from the Arsenal manager then. What a tough night for him. Here is Mikel Arteta. When you are so close in the competition and you are a few penalty kicks away from winning the biggest football club competition, that's the way we should feel. First of all, you have to go through that pain, digest it and turn it into fuel, as you said, to improve and to reach a different level because it will demand a different level with the quality that is around Europe. I want to congratulate PSG, Luis in particular, because they are, in my opinion, the best team in the world.

16:18What they are able to do with the ball, with individual actions, I haven't seen it and and it's not the plan to play in certain areas when you don't have the ball, but they force you to do that. So even more credit to the players. What I say to the players and the staff is that if I tell them one million times, thank you, it's not going to be enough. And it's not because we won the Premier League, and it's not because we played the cup final, it's not because we played the Champions League final in the manner that we've done. It's because the joy and the moments that we have lived together every single day, and that's above anything else.

16:53The same progression that we had in the last few years, we're going to have to do that over again and the level is increasing every single season. We had an incredible competition, we haven't lost a single match in the competition, but the reality is that when something had to go our way, especially in the boxes, with the penalty that was given to Mosquera and the penalty to Marueke and the penalty kicks, those matches didn't go for us. What can Arsenal do to get closer than that, Jules?

17:24Julien Laurens:they're on the right way the progression has been linear and superb really the last few years in the same way that they won the Premier League after being disappointed to finish second three seasons in a row, this is the same and they will come back stronger next season to go and win, I think and again, the early goal amplified probably a bit of the game plan and things like that, but you saw at times when they played they could also cause problems to a team like this, so they will recruit and I think they will recruit well in the summer. They need somebody, for example, on the left wing. They probably need somebody defensively too.

18:00Julien Laurens:There's a few positions where they could do better. I think if Timber had started this game, it would have been a different story if he's been fully fit. I'm not sure Saka was fully fit completely either and he's had a season where there's been a few niggles. So they will come back stronger, but they're not far. That's the most important today. They show they were a penalty away. That's how close they are of winning the Champions League. They should not forget that. They've finished Champions League runners-up, but they've not actually lost a match outright in the competition. And you know 20 years ago, 20 years ago, they lost a final against Barcelona, a great Barca team.

18:33Julien Laurens:But they were not... It was already in a cycle that was going down here. They were not on their way up like this. It was a very different environment and context to the one that they are in, they find themselves today. and I think also this is very important because they won't have to wait 20 more years now to come back here. Well, I think what's interesting is the last probably four seasons they've built. Of course. Every year they've got closer. Round of 16, quarterfinals, semifinal. Final, what's next? Exactly. But they're a team, aren't they? You know, they are now Premier League winners, beaten here in the Champions League final.

19:14and I think what'll be interesting is to see how Michael Arteta when he surely gets this new contract what he does next and whether he tries to introduce you know a real wild card some flair to add you know a bit of a bit of silk to add to the steel yeah yeah that's a really good point I

19:35Julien Laurens:think they need again a bit of strengthening and they will it's inevitable you're on your way up you have to keep going, keep going. And again, I think they are aware that they're getting closer to everything that they want to achieve. Right, that's almost it from us then. So why don't we just do final thoughts? Whether it's the season, John Murray, whether it's the night that we've just seen for Arsenal and Paris Saint-Germain in this Champions League. I mean, it is heartbreaking, but the parade tomorrow, whilst it will have 5 % weirdness, there will still be 95 % joy at what they have achieved.

20:07Yeah, I mean, obviously there will be disappointment for Arsenal supporters that they haven't been able to lift this trophy as well and make it an unforgettable season. You know, it would have been greatness. That's how close they were. The penalty shootout away from this team being remembered forever. However, they have achieved the number one target. That's what, after finishing runners-up three years running, it was loaded on Arsenal the money that they spent last summer the recruitment that they made it had to be the Premier League and they've won that and that's what they'll celebrate in North London tomorrow

20:47Julien Laurens:History made today for this PSG team this wonderful team and last season will always be the first one and it will always be special but I think they will enjoy this one more because they had to dig deep they had to fight they had to come back in again last season was almost a bit too easy against Inter it was wonderful football and everything thing but this this one I think and because it's back to back and again back to back you join the greatest of all time. Yeah Arsenal have to keep reminding themselves of what the objectives were like what John said they've achieved so much to come this close here and to take the title after looking in the season like it was going to go horribly pear-shaped the recovery of the team the strength of the group's got more they'll go again next year and they've got a manager with the energy and drive to want to take it to the next level.

21:34Speaking of energy and drive, Luis Enrique is still bouncing up and down, this time with Nasser Al-Khalaifi, the PSG president. We can still see the Champions League trophy just in the middle of a huddle of PSG players and staff shining bright. It was their North Star, that trophy, for so long. Now they have won it again. Jules, John, Matt, thank you all very much indeed. Congratulations to Paris Saint-Germain and Arsenal fans. Well, I know the celebrations at Selhurst were absolutely frenzied. This was penalty kicks away from fever pitch. Instead, it is that sporting sickness that I think only football fans truly recognise and realise.

22:19So that's it for this club season. Next for the World Cup. and we will be there on Five Live with the Football Daily, with unrivaled live coverage. Some of us are off to Mexico, City first, others to Florida, but just over a week from today, the coverage will begin. That will feel like an eons and it won't be something that Arsenal fans want to think about for now, but it is just over the horizon. They'll enjoy the parade. That's it from us here in Budapest. As always, thank you so much for listening.

22:58There's this feeling you get when it's about to go in the net and everyone goes...

23:12I do know what that's called, but I know what it feels like. We know that feeling.

23:24The FIFA World Cup 2026. Coming soon. On 5 Live and BBC Sounds.

23:35Take the leash off your laptop with the processor that gives you long battery life. Work on the go. Jump between back-to-back calls. Stay locked in from brewing morning coffee to burning the midnight oil. Get maximum performance, even when unplugged. Finally, the freedom to move across the room or across the world is here. Snapdragon, that's how. Sleeping hot? Waking up sweaty at 2 a.m.? It's not you, it's your sheets, and Karaloja is your answer. They're the original for bamboo sheets that are naturally breathable, moisture-wicking, and luxuriously soft, designed to keep hot sleepers cool and comfortable all night long.

24:21You can feel the difference in how much cooler you sleep. Karaloja's innovative bamboo fabric pulls heat away from your body, so you fall asleep faster and stay asleep longer without cranking the AC. Improve your sleep tonight. Shop Karaloja bamboo sheets now at karaloja.com. That's C-A-R-I-L-O-H-A dot com. Cooler sleep starts with Karaloja.

24:51Thank you.