UCL Debrief: Arsenal squeeze into semis & Bayern blast past Real

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1:10You'll reach the right buyers because you can target by company, industry, job title, and more. So cut the bull spend. Advertise on LinkedIn, the network that works for you. Spend$250 on your first campaign on LinkedIn ads and get a 250 credit for the next one. Just go to linkedin.com slash broadcast. That's linkedin.com slash broadcast. Terms and conditions apply. On the Football Daily Podcast, Champions League Debrief with Steve Crossman. So Arsenal are into the semifinals of the Champions League. Atletico Madrid, Lionweight, Mikel Arteta versus Diego Simeone much more reaction to come from correspondents Jean-Marie and Chris Sutton inside the stadium we'll have more on that remarkable tie as well between Bayern Munich and Real Madrid Chris though, before we do anything else if there's one word, is it relief right now for Arsenal, they've done it, they're there

2:17Chris Sutton:Yeah, I think so and you know we know what's going to happen and we know what the narrative will be in a lot of parts, and people will rip Arsenal to shreds for the way they attacked, or you could say didn't attack. But I do understand towards the end of the game, it's about seeing it through. And, you know, why should they go gung-ho? Because the objective tonight was all about going through, and it's about finding a way. And it wasn't perfect. You know, it really wasn't perfect by any means. But out of possession and defensively, they do a lot right. but you know it's been a struggle for a while now and things do need to change and people will look forward to the game or be looking ahead to the game at the weekend against Manchester City and be writing Arsenal off but um you know I still think that they are a capable team and it may well click now before the end of the season in that final third and you know Arsenal could see it through in the Premier League and the Champions League.

3:15Well relief at the Emirates tonight and And there's going to be ecstasy inside the Allianz Arena. Mike Meiner. It's exploded with the very last kick of the game. Michael Elisse has shored up the tie for Bayern Munich with a trademark Michael Elisse goal. He's threatened it twice already tonight. On the third time, it pays off. He puts Bayern Munich ahead for the first time this evening. 6-4 in aggregate. 4-3 the game will finish. Dude, Bellingham's having a go at the officials. Furious that they were sent down to 10 when Kamavinga was sent off. late on. A real topsy-turvy thriller game. Two for Arlagula in the first half where Manuel Neuer was at fault for both.

3:55Pavlovich and Kane equalised on both occasions for Bayern Munich before Mbappe had them 3-2 up on the break. Second half a little closer but still just as intense as the added time went up. Luis Diaz scored a corker from outside the box into the far corner for 3-3 on the night. And then as I said Michael Elise wins it. Bayern Munich will produce a thriller tonight and undoubtedly PSG has a lot to live up for in the semifinals. It has finished. Bayern Munich 4, Real Madrid 3, 6-4 to Bayern on aggregate. Right, well, we'll speak to Rafael Honigstein a little bit later then if he's still got a voice after that win for Bayern Munich inside the Allianz.

4:35Juan Castro as well, Spanish football journalist, will join us too. We should be able to bring you some reaction from inside the Emirates as well. Well, it's interesting, John, because looking at the pictures from the two stadiums in front of me, that there's a party happening at the Allianz, but at the Emirates, it does just feel like what you said in commentary, a weight lifted, not just off Mikel Arteta, but off the whole stadium. Yeah, there was. It was an uncomfortable night, really, for the Arsenal supporters. They were playing at half-time in the stadium. They were playing living on a prayer.

5:07It was more like living on their nerves throughout the course, all the way through the second leg, right until the very end, really. That's Timor's shot that was narrowly wide in the final seconds of the match. But, you know, they were able to maintain the control that they had and that was enough to see them through. What I imagine, Chris, they are going to need to think about, and presumably they'll have been thinking about it already given recent results, they're not really creating enough, are they?

5:38Chris Sutton:No, and that's a huge problem, and that's an issue for Mikel Arteta. I'm sure he's thinking about it every hour of the day. How can they be more effective in the final third? Just think, you know, little things like the wide players. They're hesitant. They're on the back foot. They're not quite decisive enough in the way that they think and the way that they attack. And then with Jokeres in the first half, you know, one of my favourite words, Steve, you know, is clunky. That's what he was. The ball doesn't stick. He plays, you know, one touch at times. And you have to find your teammate in that final third and be cute and be clever and be aware of the centre-forward.

6:17Chris Sutton:He was anything but that, got hooked and Havertz went on. And, you know, I'm not saying he, you know, he was brilliant, but they looked a little bit cleaner in terms of their actions in the final third. Ezzer showed some, like, a few moments in the game, but he's not up to speed. So at this moment in time, Arsenal, you know, they have a lot of work to do and everybody will be thinking in the Premier League, it's Manchester City's game on Sunday. But the way, you know, I take my hat off to Arsenal because the way they defend and the way that, you know, they lose the ball and they all track back, their recovery runs are there.

6:55Chris Sutton:So they know they're not perfect at the moment. But yeah, I'm one of those. I'm certainly not going to write them off and rule them out of the Premier League just because they've been a little bit ineffective. That may come back. I don't know how long Bukayo Saka is going to be out, but he does seem like a key player to me because he's a little bit different to anything else that Arsenal have got in that final third, and I think he has that edge in terms of his quality. So get him back, and I think they'll send a far stronger chance of being more effective at the top end of the pitch. but it is a problem.

7:35Just reading some quotes here, Chris, from Declan Rice on TV, he said, I'm delighted, I'm so, so happy. We now want to go one step forward, one step further than last season and get to the final. Is it frustrating? No, we've just got to another semi-final. Who cares what people think?

7:51Chris Sutton:I agree with that. And, you know, you talked about the, you know, the stadium being flat at the end. There is the 20, so the 14-year-old Arsenal Ultras who were still very excited in their part of the stand. But Deglin Rice is absolutely right. What was the aim in the Arsenal dressing room before the game? It wouldn't have been, you know, let's go kamikaze because everybody's criticising our style of play in recent weeks. It's about balance. It's about seeing it through. It's about the desired outcome. The desired outcome before the game would be, well, OK, well, if we can't win it, keep a clean sheet and we'll go through.

8:30Chris Sutton:Arsenal have done that and you know I said there will be criticism just because of the nature of you know the landscape now and people's views in football but you know I said before Manchester City players you know and Pep saying well you know we've got a week to rest and what have you Manchester City players will be sitting at home tonight and be thinking I wish that was us in the Champions League semi-finals I think Arsenal players can take a lot out of this game I don't know how you feel John but I think this is quite a difficult needle to thread because I can completely understand people listening to the commentary and thinking oh creatively Arsenal are in a funk here and you need to sort of critique that funk I can equally see the opposite which is they're in the semi-finals of the Champions League they have achieved what they set out to achieve tonight Yeah I can understand I was listening to Trish Johnson who is part of our Masters team the other evening when they were on with you, wasn't it?

9:33On Monday night when Trish was talking about, and I guess she probably speaks for a lot of Arsenal fans who just want to see this Arsenal team and some of the brilliant talent that they've got in it express themselves and enjoy themselves. I mean, Damund did that to an extent when he came onto the field, but listen, what they want more than anything else, what Mikel Arteta wants, what's the most important thing, it's to win a trophy this season, however it's done.

9:58Chris Sutton:Yeah, and you know what, Steve? People will forget this game if Arsenal go on and win the Champions League. Nobody's going to talk about the 0-0 at home against Sporting Lisbon if they go all the way. It'll be the same in the Premier League. If Arsenal go up to the Etihad at the weekend and get a boring 0-0 draw and end up winning the Premier League, people, you know, I mean, are Arsenal fans going to care about that? I think not. I might be close to having forgotten it already. It's the fan experience, I suppose, isn't it? Chris if I was an Arsenal fan I would feel exactly the same as they do which is I'd be delighted that they've gone through but you you the nerves make sense don't they the feeling at full time makes sense because yes they're thinking about the goal but they're also thinking well if we played like this against Diego Simeone's Atletico then what would happen that's only natural yes and look I think the the thoughts foremost in Arsenal fans mind is the game at the weekend really and going into it where you know there are struggles in the final third you know they'll look ahead to the semi-final against Atletico in due course when it comes around but I mean this Arsenal team I think if you ask any Arsenal player who would they rather play Atletico Madrid or Barcelona they'd probably tell you Atletico Madrid so yeah you know they just need to raise the game a little bit but they you know they are they are capable you know Madu Eke seems like he's lost a bit of confidence Martinelli's Martinelli's a little bit on the back but you know it's it's just not quite quite clicking quite connecting but as I say these are all players we know we've seen before Trossard you know off the bench he's you know he's an intelligent player you know that you know it can click so And it is a big if coming towards the end of the season, but you just can't write off.

11:54Chris Sutton:It takes a moment, one moment in a particular game of somebody seeing a pass, making a pass, a brilliant finish. They just need that spark in that final third. And if that comes, then Arsenal have a real chance in both competitions. Just last one for now then, Chris, and then we'll come back to you once we get some reaction from inside the Emirates. It's interesting what you're saying there about the confidence thing. I was listening to Vitor Matos, the Swansea manager, the other day, and he was asked this question about confidence in football. And he said on the outside that people tend to see it as win big game equals confidence.

12:31But sometimes it can be a brilliant tackle, a great piece of skill, one individual goal. It could be a moment within a game that suddenly changes everything.

12:42Chris Sutton:Yeah, I mean, looking at the game last night, the Liverpool game, where everybody fancied PSG to go through, but Marquinhos, that block from Van Dijk, that moment. And I'm not all for defenders celebrating. I sort of half got that one. I think we were discussing that on the Monday night club. Yeah, you were right. Because it was that moment. I think Arsenal need something to happen in the final third, though. for it to change. But this has been, I mean, has it not been Arsenal all season really? You know, a lot has been made about their particular style and Mikel Arteta changing the style that they were going to play to try and conquer Manchester City because everybody had tried to out-football Manchester City over the years.

13:32Chris Sutton:That hadn't really worked. Manchester City had been the dominant team. So they've done it a different way. So, you know, they haven't really, you know, nothing has really changed, but they're finding a way to be successful. And is that not the aim in football? Absolutely. Right. More to come then from inside the Emirates. We'll also speak to Rafa Honigstein and Juan Castro after Real Madrid were knocked out of the Champions League by Bayern Munich this evening. So it's Bayern PSG and Arsenal versus Atletico. The two semi-final lineups confirmed.

14:34Thank you. Match Limited by State Law.

15:06The less said about the host, the better. Patrick Kilty, Saturdays from 9. Listen on BBC Sounds. On the Football Daily Podcast, Champions League Debrief. With Steve Crossman. Right, let's go to Bavaria, shall we? Bayern Munich have not been in a Champions League final for six years. The last time they got there was during COVID. It was behind closed doors. So they haven't played in one in front of fans for 13 years. And they're not in another one yet, but they are one step away. They have beaten Real Madrid by four goals to three at the Allianz Arena. It's finished 6-4 on aggregate. Rafa Honigstein, do you still have a voice?

15:47I'm not sure I still have a voice. Just about. It's not my full voice, not the regular voice. Oh, what a game. What a dramatic evening. Just tell us what it was like being there for that. It looked amazing. It was amazing. I mean, you couldn't believe your eyes half of the time because things happen that you just, I mean, you try to process it, but Manuel Neuer giving that goal away in the first minute and then not looking great for the free kick. We talked about before the game how, you know, he was celebrated for some of the saves in the first leg, but has been looking a little bit more like his age recently, and certainly he did tonight.

16:28But then Bayern found a way back, and the crowd were really rocking the world, And then, of course, Real Madrid chopped themselves in the foot a little bit. But it was just, it was one of the loudest, loudest nights I've ever witnessed in the Niran Serena. And that's from someone who's been going for a long, long, long time to this particular stadium, which is not necessarily known as one of the louder ones in Europe. That's amazing, Raph. So what do you think it was about this night then? Because there have been some famous nights there. It's always about Real Madrid. Bayern see themselves as rival to Real Madrid.

17:10I'm not sure if Real Madrid feel quite the same with 15 Champions League titles and Bayern have an Amiga 6 in comparison. But Bayern always, since the 80s, really see Real Madrid as the game that they want to win more than any other game. Because domestically, they're in a position where no one can really challenge them to this extent. But Real Madrid throughout the years and certainly the last decade have been their nemesis. And tonight, you know, was kind of just them getting so many ghosts off their back and exercising those demons. And that had that extra quality to it, which made it very, very special.

17:54That's really interesting, Raph, because obviously we've been doing the Arsenal game and I was just saying to John... How was that? It wasn't a thriller, but it was this overriding feeling. You could hear it from the stands, the feeling of relief. And I was actually expecting to talk to you about just sort of pure relation. But there's a touch of relief in your voice as well, which is presumably because of the ghosts you've just been talking about. Yeah, I think there's both. I mean, people are shaking their heads, you know, sort of saying, wow, how did we do that? But at the same time, they are over the moon.

18:29It was so nervy because Real Madrid, for all their flaws, they again showed just how good they are going forward. They need half a chance to score goals. They need just a sniff to create problems. And there are players that you, at the end, cannot properly defend. You cannot defend Kylian Mbappe once he starts running at you, similar with Vinicius. You can outplay them in midfield. You can try to have a better structure. You can collectively be a better side. But once the ball gets to those players, the whole stadium held its breath. And of course, then that extra sense of shock and insecurity that came from Neuer and that mistake early on made it just extra nervy.

19:15And it was just an incredible experience, really, it was. And what happens now, Raf? Do you not speak to Julien Leroy until after the semi-final second leg or what? I mean I was with him when when Bayern beat PSG in the final yes I remember we had a good time no you didn't maybe one of us better than the other yeah maybe one of us better than the other but no I'm looking forward to it I've already got my hotel booked in Paris I'm sure he's going to come to Munich we're going to have a really good time before and after the game I'm not sure during the actual game we're going to have a good time with each other but our friendship shall endure or whatever the results.

19:55Thank you very much, Raf. Congratulations. Great stuff. Thank you. Rafael Honigstein inside the Allianz. There is another side of the story, though, Juan Castro, and that's what happens to Real Madrid. Yeah, here, the most used wear right now at this time of the night in Madrid is rope. People are really furious against the UEFA's president friend, Vinicic, the referee, and people are really, I mean, tremendous worry about what has happened today in Munich and Madrid and this will have consequence. I think tomorrow club will say and will do something because the rope was, in the Madridistas' perspective, really clear.

20:45As in they feel that it's some sort of conspiracy or something? No, as everybody has seen, the second yellow card to Kamavinga, you cannot give this second yellow card in a really nice semi-quartifinal in the Champions League in the last minute where both teams were equalized. you cannot give this second yellow card. It was one of the most modern rope that we have had in the Champions League in the recent years. Real Madrid have a history of not getting on with officials as well, don't they? There seems to be no love lost there. So do you expect then that they're going to go really on the attack here?

21:36Yes, of course. you can see all the players go against the referee after the match. Even Arda Guller was taken by what's enough with a red guard for protesting. And I think tomorrow the club will say and will do something because you can be disqualified from the Champions League, but you cannot be disqualified with this second yellow card which has no sense for the football sense, for the competition. You are in the best competition in the world and you cannot have this kind of behavior in the Madridistas perspective. And I think the Spanish press in general will reflect this match as a kind of rope.

22:35And just to finish on Real then, what do you think will happen with Arbeloa? Does he take any blame for this or will they just shield him from that completely? No. The name is Vincic. Tomorrow, name. And today and tonight and in the next days, all will be focusing Vincic in the referee of tonight's match. I think Arbeloa will be huge in a second stage, but I don't think Madridistas will blame Arbeloa because they were equalising their round and only a second yellow car for Camavinga. I think just make the balance go to Bayern Munich. Juan, thank you for coming on. I can tell you're frustrated.

23:27Really appreciate you chatting to us. Thank you. Cheers. That's Juan Castro, Spanish football journalist. Let's go back inside the Emirates. John Murray and Chris Sutton are there. It feels like they're not taking it too well, Chris, from the sounds of it, doesn't it? Oh, dear me.

23:44Chris Sutton:Yeah, I mean, it did seem an element of sour grapes. Do you think? Do you pick that up? Yeah, I think so. I mean, Real Madrid go out, so just blame the referee. Blame a conspiracy. I mean, that was, yeah, that was quite incredible, wasn't it? But yeah, aren't they bad losers? Well, you haven't seen the decision yet, Chris. I haven't, but that did, you know. Did everything go against him, Steve? Well, Bayern were really good, weren't they? So, yeah. Anyway, Atletico Madrid, John, and Arsenal, as you rightly said in commentary, I'm excited for Arteta and Simeone on the same touchline. Yeah, I think that we should point out that they have played each other in the Champions League this season, where, remember, Arsenal remain unbeaten in this tournament.

24:33Unbeaten semi-finalists, that's not bad. And when they played Atletico Madrid on what UEFA like to call match day three, they played each other here and Arsenal won 4-0. So that's not a bad one to have in your locker. But of course, it's a totally different matter now we get to this end of the season and they've got to play each other over two legs in a knockout tie. But the second leg will be here in London at the Emirates. You know what they'll be, John, don't you? Fire. There probably will be fire in that one, particularly in the Metropolitano, which is, I mean, so many of these grounds are tough places to go, but that is right up there.

25:13I mean, Tottenham have already found that out this season. Of course, when they went there, they were at a low ebb, weren't they, under Igor Tudor? But I think they showed there that in an attacking sense, this Atletico Madrid have got a lot about them. and you know but in a defensive sense Arsenal have got a lot about them you know they're a capable team sporting Portuguese champions they couldn't find a way past David Raya in either of these two matches and in this competition so far they have they've only conceded five goals in 12 matches Arsenal so that tells you everything about their strength.

25:54Do you think then Chris what's happened tonight shifts the dial at all ahead of the weekend by which I mean I think Juliana Ron was making the point before the game if Arsenal were able to get like a big confidence boosting win then maybe it would undo some of what they've been feeling this wasn't that clearly so does that mean that that still persists ahead of the weekend or not well in in every quarter now

26:23Chris Sutton:Everybody will be writing Arsenal off at the weekend because of how insipid they were in terms of their attacking play. And I understand that to some extent. But John, and I mentioned them out of possession, Arsenal are brilliant out of possession. Defensively, they are absolutely exceptional. In many ways, if you're in the Arsenal dressing room, you're loving it because they're probably due something to go right for them in the final third. They're probably due the combination play to click. Arsenal are right where they want to be. And people will naturally try and knock them. They'll try and break the confidence.

27:12Chris Sutton:But it's all about desired outcomes. Sitting in the dressing room before the game, the Arsenal players would have been thinking, well, you know, let's play with balance. Let's play our game. Let's not get carried away with what everybody else wants us to do. The main thing is to go through tonight. And I actually, I admired the discipline towards the end of the game. There were times when Arsenal could have chucked bodies forward and loaded the box, but they didn't do because they knew the importance of having that balance and, you know, Declan Rice and Zuberman, and they just stayed behind the ball.

27:48Chris Sutton:And second half, I know Sporting Lisbon hit the post in the first half. Second half, I mean, there was a shot at the end. But other than that, you know, Arsenal defended superbly. So for all where people are looking at what hasn't quite gone right for Arsenal, you know, there are still a lot of good things about this team. And, yeah, I'm repeating myself now, but I wouldn't be ruling them out of anything at the weekend. Manchester City, as good a team as they have been in recent weeks, they got walloped in the Champions League against Real Madrid. And I think in the Premier League, they dropped points against West Ham in recent times.