UCL Debrief: Havertz scores late Arsenal winner

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1:12Hello and welcome to the Champions League Debrief on the Football Daily Podcast. Coming up, we'll be reacting to Arsenal's 1-0 win away against Sporting Club in Lisbon in the first leg of their quarterfinal. We'll hear from former Spurs winger Andros Townsend shortly, as well as our commentary team of John Murray and Matthew Upson out in Lisbon. We'll also discuss Real Madrid's 2-1 loss at home to Bayern and we'll look ahead to Wednesday's quarterfinals of Barcelona against Atletico Madrid and PSG against Liverpool. But let's start in Lisbon, where John Arsenal beat Sporting with a last-minute winner from Kai Havertz.

1:47Ian Dennis:Yes, in this great maritime city, Arsenal have steadied the ship, with their returning stars making a big impact. Rice in midfield at the heart of a controlled performance, but in a tight match, goalkeeper David Reyes' saves were pivotal. The Portuguese champions had won their last 17 home matches, so for Arsenal to come and win here in the aftermath of their two recent Cup defeats, you could understand why there seemed to be an added feeling to their celebrations with the supporters who followed them here. and the winning goal from substitute Kai Havertz, the same man who scored in Germany at the end of the first leg in the round of 16 and a fine goal it was.

2:24Ian Dennis:Another of the subs, Martinelli, finding Havertz's run into the box. The old one-two, right foot, left foot finish. Beautifully done. And so a lead it is for Arsenal and just like against Bayer Leverkusen in the round of 16, you'd expect Arsenal to finish the job at the Emirates. Matt it was a great substitution again Mikel Arteta's substitutions paying off Kai Havertz coming on for the last 20 or so minutes of that game and he has so many important goals for Arsenal yeah he really does and you know switching the wide players as well I thought was a really good decision and he's done that a few times Mikel Arteta with really good results but Havertz has just got such a calmness about him he's got quite a languid style anyway and then he just his first touch and then the composure just to calm himself and i mean he made it look so easy just stroked it in bottom corner with his left foot but he ghosts into those little areas late nicely on the d on the edge of the 18 yard box he just kind of sees that little space he holds doesn't go in too early and then is in there bang at the right time and the ball from martinelli was great so it all kind of came together there for michael arteta and i think arsenal had the foundation and the basis basis of a really good performance this evening it was just missing that final little piece which they brought right at the end of the game so i mean it was a it's a top away european performance really but matt that's kind of been the story of a lot of arsenal season is maybe just missing that that final cutting edge look it's not really done them any harm so far this season but it but it is it's just a feature now of their performances yeah i mean You want to have it all, but you can't.

4:08You have to do the best. The features that Mikel Arteta has developed in this team this season is clear to see. They've done that very, very well. I think up to January, they did have the other side to them as well. They were blowing teams away. It's been a hard couple of months for them. They've had to overcome a lot. It starts to get tired of mental fatigue and amount of games. it's all just kind of built up and I think tonight was a great opportunity we said before the game that you can reset it here you're on the top stage playing in the top competition at a stadium and at a club that are flying at home and almost unbeatable and to keep a clean sheet and then win the game and have a measured performance I just think it's a really positive step for this group of players because they've got to hold it together now from all the way through in the Premier League to the end of the season it's really important for Arsenal Andrus you always want to have your best players available for every game.

5:06But one of the features of Arsenal this season has been that they have had this cover in pretty much every position. However, the big guns were back for this one, for this game against Sporting. How much of a difference did it make, particularly in the spine of the team? Yeah, a massive difference. I think that's probably something that Mikel Arteta identified over the summer. We have the first XI, now we need the depth. Jokeres, Maduweki, players who are not maybe going to fire them to the title but they're going to provide cover and they've done that but having Declan Rice back in that midfield, having Saliba back at the back, just gave them that calmness, gave them that control, they know they can throw players forward, they know they can invert the full backs and put them into the half space areas because they know Declan Rice is just going to cover in the number six position and Calafuri goes forward, he's going to provide cover at the left back position, and he's just so smart, he's so clever, and he's so important to this Arsenal side, and we saw that tonight in how he dominated that midfield along with Zubomendi.

6:04And Matt Davidrayer back in and made some really big saves in that game. Yeah, we didn't give him the credit in the save, the one that hit the crossbar, because we were too busy admiring the pass and the play from Sporting, and we didn't get too much of a replay here, but when you do look at that replay, it does get a little fingertip to that shot, But, I mean, it was more than just his involvement in those key points, which we can always see is right in front of you. I just think he had a presence. I think his communication with Gabriel and Saliba was good. His decision-making on when to go long.

6:40Arsenal didn't take any unnecessary risks where they're invited pressure onto them, which is so easy to do. Certainly, you know, we see goalkeepers time after time playing out and then inviting those kind of problems in a tough fixture away. and he just made all the right calls in that sense and I think they were very, very happy and welcome to have his presence at the back again. And another player who's making such an impact and has really grown into this season and actually has been really impressive in the last couple of games where Arsenal haven't got the win, Andros, is Max Damman who came on again, 16 years old, playing in the Champions League and looking like he was born to it.

7:18And he's just so fearless. It's amazing to see young kids where they just don't feel the pressure, naive in a way. He just comes on, he doesn't think about what happens if he loses the ball, what happens if this or that, but he just gets the ball. He looks to be positive, he looks to take on his full-back. It's amazing to witness. He's not just a 16-year-old getting an opportunity, he's a player Arteta is looking for when he needs a goal. That's the best compliment you can give Max Dalman. He is a game-changer now for this Arsenal side who are looking to win the Premier League and looking to go far into the Champions League.

7:51Yeah, he's more than just a great story, isn't he, Matt? Yeah, I was just going to ask Andros about that one in the sense that, is it me, Andros? Has he got an unbelievable amount of grace and technical ability with the ball? He just looks like he's always creating time. Yeah, he is. He's smart beyond his years, the way he's not just a typical fast winger with raw attributes. He's very good on the ball. he's got a culture left for almost a Spanish kind of swagger about him. Yeah. And it's amazing for me, I'm 34 years of age and I'm looking at 16 year old and looking what he does and trying to take tips off him.

8:30So it's amazing to see how much grace that 16 year old does have in the biggest moments. It is scary how good he is technically. I mean, I think I generally think he is generational talent, this lad. I haven't seen a 15, 16-year-old step onto the scene and look as good as him for a long, long time. He looks very special. I just hope that he gets developed in the right manner, which it looks like they are. They're not trying to push it too hard, which I think is really important. But what a talent he is. Yeah, they're bringing him through very slowly and very carefully. But he's impressing every time he appears, Max Downman.

9:08Just in terms of what this means for Arsenal and to put this back into context, Matt. Obviously, they come into this off the defeat by Southampton in the FA Cup, the defeat by Manchester City in the League Cup final, and probably, if not a lot of pressure, probably as much pressure as they've been under so far this season, as much criticism as they've had so far this season, or as many questions asked of them. Sporting did manage to have, what, four shots in the first ten minutes of the game, and they're the first team to do that this season against Arsenal. so there were still maybe those early signs that this may have a bit of a hangover arsel but they put that completely to bed yeah i think they got to grips with the game after that to be honest and i thought they were exploited a little bit in those full-backy areas and how quickly sporting when they have that transition they go all out i mean that they really commit forwards the full-backs go the you know the the left back arajo the first 15 minutes could just mention his name all the time he was defending then he was going forwards and he was hitting the crossbar then he was on the overlap it was it was just bombing all the time and the moment they got to grips with it I thought Arsenal really kind of grew into the game and started to to be more controlled and more measured and stop those opportunities and nullify those the time and the space and and were just smarter with with how they managed the game and I thought that was impressive for how the team did that and and it's been a key feature of their season and they've been very very good at it and they've got to keep getting back to what has got them into this position in the first place and I thought they did that this evening.

10:43Do you think Ben White could be a slight weakness for Arsenal at the moment? Struggled on the weekend against Southampton, struggled in the early stages tonight, got caught out on two or three occasions? I think so and I think you know it's like Andres, you're coming into key moments of the season of huge scale games of your whole career and you know he he hasn't had a massive amount of football before this spell has he he's kind of come in and all of a sudden you've got to get up to up and running when you've been weeks and months on on off the pitch so I don't think it's easy for him and and I think you know you also come to terms with the fact that he hasn't been first choice has he so you've got to accept that you've got to manage that thought process and still have the belief to think I can step up and play at the top of the game when you've suffered that disappointment and coping with all of that and I think you're right I don't think his awareness of that what's around him in that space has been quite right so he gets a little bit caught and then it's too late because at this level the ball's out there so quickly and the quality is so good that you haven't got that second bite have you to get back in and he just gets caught out on the odd occasion I think he'll want Durian Timber won't he for the match at Manchester City and like I say that doesn't help Ben White then step in here because Timber's been so good and everyone can see how good Timber's been.

12:03So it does knock your confidence and that belief level a little bit. So he's got to step in and find that and I think that is a tough challenge.

12:11Ian Dennis:Yeah, and that is a week on Sunday at Manchester City and typically Mikko Latteta was quite vague yesterday on when Timber might be back in the frame again. Yeah, he's not going to be giving anything away ahead of a game that big. Look, having got the win in Lisbon, Matt, Arsenal, you would imagine, go through to the semifinals. They will, of course, be focused on getting the win at the Emirates as well, but they do have that advantage that they can take there. Looks like they're on their way potentially to the semifinals, the Champions League, for the second consecutive season. It's the first time that they've managed to do that.

12:49This is shaping up to be a fantastic season for Arsenal. It looks like they've ridden out that little mini wobble. Yeah, it's all the Premier League, isn't it, Kelly? At the start of the season, that's what the objective was, in my mind, is for Arsenal to win the Premier League. And they're still in a fantastic position to do that. They've got a massive game coming up on Saturday. It's going to be very, very difficult in between these two Champions League teams, league fixtures. and yeah, I suppose they are, we can't talk too early about going into the semi-final. They put themselves in a really good position that you'd fancy if they turn up with the mentality and application they showed this evening at home.

13:31You do fancy them to go through and see this tie through to the semi-final. So I agree. It's a great part of the season. There's lots to look forward to and Arsenal are still in a really good position. so lots to get excited about.

13:48Ian Dennis:He's had a very good night tonight, Miguel Atteta. And let me tell you, Kelly, when he came into the room yesterday, into the media room here, he was, I have to say, he did look like a man whose team were under pressure. He was stern-faced. There were no laughs. There was only the occasional hint of a smile for him. It was properly serious. So I think for the team to, for him to have the players tonight, for them to play the way that they did. And also, you know, his substitutes, Martinelli and Havertz, to combine for the goal. You know, it's been a very good night for him. Right, before we move on, let's hear from Arsenal manager Mikel Arteta.

14:27Matt Upson:Yeah, extremely happy, obviously. It was a big night, a big moment in the season. Especially where we're coming from. I think we had a point to prove. And yesterday I talked about identity and the things that I wanted to see on that pitch. Celtsale happened, Celtsale was achieved there. And then, yeah, we played our opponent. It's very tricky, very difficult to play. That's the reason why they won 17 games in a row here. They haven't lost for a long, long time and really had to earn it. We had moments of real dominance with a lot of situations in and around the box without creating enough threats sometimes.

15:01Matt Upson:Lacking to be a bit crispier, the movement a bit sharper, the final ball. But we took the game where we wanted. But after saying that, we knew as well that it's a team extremely dangerous when they have a space to run and they have two situations when David had to intervene in a brilliant way. And then again, the story of the season, the finish is coming when the most important part of the game is about to happen and they make the difference for us to win it. When you have a difficult period, I think the best thing that you can do instead of talk a lot is observe. Look around you and see how people react.

15:36Matt Upson:How they talk, how they look at you, how they judge you, what they do, do they look at themselves, do they start to criticise other people. Look around and you're going to learn the environment and the people that you have around you. And I cannot be prouder to work in a club with people that the only thing they could do is ask what else can I do to help. And when you have people like this, I don't know if it's going to take another week or two, but something good will happen at the end because we deserve it. England's fifth spot in the Champions League is now secured, incidentally, because of Arsenal's 1-0 win.

16:09That might help Liverpool, who we will speak about shortly. But first, let's move on to the night's other quarterfinal first leg. Bayern beat Real Madrid 2-1 at the Santiago Bernabeu. And our reporter Maz Faruqi was watching the match. Yes, and until a point in the second half, Real really had looked like they were. Well, at one point in this match, certainly in the first half, Then Luis Diaz scored that goal early on, just before halftime, rather, that really put Bayern in the driving seat. And then they went well on top in the second half. The goal scored by Harry Kane right at the start of the second half.

16:45It obviously put Bayern 2-0 up. And it was almost like somebody had put a pin in a balloon, really. Real looked incredibly deflated, out of ideas, really. But then Albaro Albaloa did make the changes midway through the second half. And in particular, Jude Bellingham. And there was one moment where Bellingham picked at the ball basically in Real's own half. He burst forward despite being tracked by Bayern players, forced his way away from them, put the ball through to Mbappe. He nearly scored. And that really set the tone then for the last 20 minutes of how Real would finish this match. And that then allowed them to get that valuable Kylian Mbappe goal, which could be so important for them to build on next week in the return leg.

17:25And again, that had a big contribution from another England player, Trent Alexander-Arnold with the ball to Mbappe across the face of the Real goal. That really feels like it could be a key goal in this tie in a match that for vast minutes of it, Bayern really did dominate. And that's why I think the Bayern players looked a bit pensive when the full-time whistle went, Kelly, because I think they felt they could have forced home their advantage a little bit more in the first leg of this quarterfinal. Maz, thank you very much for that. And we can bring in our BBC Spanish football reporter, Elizabeth Conway, who's in Barcelona ahead of Barca against Atleti tomorrow night.

18:01And it was at their first leg home defeat, Elizabeth, but not as bad as Maz was explaining as it looked at one point. And the Bayern Munich players looking slightly deflated at the final whistle. But what would a Champions League exit mean if it did happen for Alvaro Arbeloa? Well, it would be pretty disastrous for Alvaro Arbeloa, Kelly. There's so much pressure riding on this second leg in Munich because Real have been so inconsistent domestically. Look, they're losing to teams they should never lose to. Just last weekend, they lost 2-1 to Mallorca in La Liga. Bear in mind, Mallorca are a team who will just be happy to stay in Spain's top league next season.

18:43They sit seven points behind Barcelona with a Clasico at Camp Nou to go in May. The results aren't sitting in Arbelo's favour at all and the Champions League was a real chance to rectify that this season. So huge pressure riding on that second leg next week in Munich. Yeah, and that Kylian Mbappe goal just means that it's much more, there's a much greater opportunity rather for Real Madrid in that return leg in Germany. But it feels as though that Real Madrid project is unravelling a bit, especially when you look back to the start of the season when everything seemed so perfectly set up. They brought in Xabi Alonso and it looked as though the Madrid machine was going to keep on rolling.

19:26Well, it did. But as we've seen with Real Madrid year in, year out, the expectations and the pressure is so immense. And one defeat feels like the end of the club. That's why we see the turnover in the manager Alonso out. And in came Arbelor with his very limited senior coaching experience, with his experience in the Castilla. We saw him today start Thiago Pitarch, again, a product of the academy in replacement of Bellingham. As Maz said there, Bellingham came in and really shook up Real Madrid. But it's just been a season of inconsistency. And that's something Real Madrid just won't stand for.

20:03So a lot riding on the end of this season and certainly their Champions League campaign. Let's talk about that, that Barcelona-Atletico Madrid match that's going to take place Wednesday night. They played each other three days ago. Barcelona won it. They're unbeaten in the last nine. They've got 19 goals in the last four home Champions League game. The expectation is very much on them. Absolutely. Barcelona are just in top form at the moment. And they'll go into the match tomorrow oozing with confidence. As you say, they beat Atletico just a few days ago in Madrid. And just a few weeks ago, they thumped Newcastle at the camp now in the last 16.

20:41They're unbeaten in all competitions for almost two months. And their attacking talent is just phenomenal. led by 18-year-old Laminimo. He was big talk in the press of today, as you can imagine. Hansi Flick described him as just unbelievable. So there's certainly going to be a very formidable opposition for Atletico tomorrow. And also, if you look at the significance of this game for Atleti, Simeone rested a lot of key players against Barcelona at the weekend. So it doesn't necessarily follow that the same patterns will play out in this fixture, but it also shows how important the Champions League is to them.

21:16Look, absolutely, there's no doubt Simeone's really prioritising this Champions League. Atletico's position in La Liga is relatively secure. They're currently fourth, one point behind Villarreal, 19 points behind leaders Barcelona. So Simeone could really afford to rotate his squad without jeopardising that top finish at the weekend in La Liga. Of course, Atletico have a Copa del Rey final to look forward to in just a few weeks. But again, that's just one match rather than this sustained Champions League campaign. So it means tomorrow they'll have some real key starters, Luckman, Alvarez, Hansko, to name a few, who will be fresh and ready to take on a very strong Barcelona side.

21:53It's going to be a great game. I'm really looking forward to it. And John Murray, you saw the Barcelona game against Newcastle. They are something special this season, aren't they?

22:02Ian Dennis:Yeah, they are. And also I think that Nou Camp factor is a big thing as well. I mean, we felt it when we were there, that extraordinary match against Newcastle. and the experience of going there. Liz was with us in the building site that is a 60 ,000 capacity stadium. I still can't quite get my head around the fact that they do that. And they've got something special there because they're seeing their team back in that stadium playing in Champions League knockout ties. So it's a huge factor. For Atletico Madrid, of course, they have got a brilliant home ground as well and I certainly wouldn't underestimate them but you have to see Barcelona as the favourites the way that they are right now.

22:50Elizabeth, John Murray, Matt Upson, Andros Townsend thank you very much for joining us. Coming up we'll be looking ahead to the other quarterfinal on Wednesday night, PSG against Liverpool with our commentary team in Paris of Ian Dennis and Paul Robinson. That's straight after this.

23:39Five Live Sports

23:44On the Football Daily Podcast, Champions League Debrief with Kelly Cates. Welcome back. The Champions League action continues on Wednesday night. We're bringing you commentary of Paris Saint-Germain against Liverpool in the Champions League quarterfinal first leg on Five Live. That kicks off at eight o 'clock. So let's bring in our commentary team for that game. Ian Dennis and former England goalkeeper Paul Robinson are amongst the Parisian locals. Ian, Liverpool in great need of something to rescue their season, but some test they've got against PSG.

24:14Ian Dennis:Absolutely it is. And also, I think not only is it a test for Liverpool, but I think it could be defining for the manager, Arna Slott, who is becoming under increasing pressure, especially after their capitulation at the weekend against Manchester City. and you know I mean there were some worrying comments there about the from the captain Virgil Van Dijk we gave up so Boss Lai was also critical as well saying the mentality wasn't there enough and I just think that they're going to go in to a game against the Paris Saint-Germain side of their last four matches and they are going to face a really intense Paris Saint-Germain side and it was funny that Arna Slott earlier today said that at the weekend we didn't deserve to lose 4-0, but we did deserve to lose 4-0 in the corresponding fixture when they met here in the last 16 last season.

25:06Ian Dennis:And the worry is, I think, for a lot of Liverpool supporters, they're going to travel with a lot of trepidation, is that what happens if Paris Saint-Germain score first? And they do have a habit of scoring at home. You know, will goals 2, 3 and 4 follow as they did for that 20-minute period at the weekend? Well, Ian, as you said, Virgil van Dijk suggested that Liverpool had given up in that game. Florian Wurt said earlier he wasn't aware of Van Dijk's comments and that he doesn't agree with his captain.

25:33Matt Upson:I didn't know about this, that he's said this. But I think, yeah, I would not agree directly because we still try to create chances to turn the game around. Of course, when the game gets longer and it's like in the 80th minute or something and you are 3-0 back, then it's mentally also difficult to go and go. And we just try to give our best in the game. Also when it was 3-0 or 4-0, I think we had also still a few chances then. Paul, Florian Wurtz disagreeing with Virgil van Dijk and saying that they were still creating chances late on into the game. But maybe it's no surprise that he and a central defender have a different opinion because Liverpool have let in 18 goals in the final 20 minutes of league games.

26:27That's two more than any other team. So the perspective is going to be different because that's clearly where the issue is. So if it's not about giving up, what is it? Well, I think you listen to what the captain has said. And I think when he uses those type of words, you could see him actually. When I watched the game against Manchester City, he was actually striding into midfield. he was trying to instigate the press, you know, that what they'd been told to do, he didn't feel that other players in and around him were doing. I don't think that this is a game that Liverpool need at the moment.