UCL Debrief: Liverpool knocked out & Atleti down Barcelona

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1:06Make your travel dollars work harder. Follow Smart Travel on your favourite podcast app. On the Football Daily Podcast, Champions League Debrief with Kelly Cates. A pulsating night of Champions League football on 5 Live. Liverpool fought hard at a raucous Anfield, but they couldn't overcome the European champions Paris Saint-Germain. They go through to the semifinals as 4-0 aggregate winners, 2-0 on the night. In Madrid, Barcelona scored twice early on to level the tie with Atleti, but Diego Simeone's side got a goal back and they go through as 3-2 winners. They will play the winner of Arsenal against Sporting.

1:48That's live on 5 Live on Wednesday night and we'll look ahead to that game a little bit later on. But of course we're going to start at Anfield, where Liverpool found an energy that has rarely been witnessed this season to push PSG, Hardy and Dennis. They did indeed. What got to say, what a high quality match. And Liverpool gave it a real go, particularly in the second half, because there was a spell when the defending champions Paris Saint-Germain were having to dig deep. After a first half where De Bele hooked a great chance over the bar in front of the Kop, they were reliant on Marquinhos to produce a goal-saving block with a combination on Van Dijk and also Wurz.

2:23And sometimes in these high-profile games such as this, it's about those fine margins. And there was certainly one in the second period where Liverpool were awarded a penalty. Paco judged to have challenged McAllister. The referee from Italy, Maurizio Mariani, did award the penalty. However, he was instructed by his VAR, Marco Di Bello, to look at the screen. And when he did, he then changed his mind and that penalty was not awarded. But before that, Gravenberg had had a rising, whistling drive off target. Gomez has seen his header go close. And Gatpo, a half-time substitute, produced a stretching save from Safanov, who also kept out a fine effort from Ngomoua.

3:02But the trouble is, is that there were always danger of what Paris Saint-Germain could do at the other end. and despite Liverpool's best efforts, Dembele's quality finish 17 minutes from the end really knocked the stuffing out of Liverpool and Dembele at the double finished them off with a second goal in stoppage time. 2-0 in both legs and Paris Saint-Germain through 4-0 on aggregate. Former Liverpool defender Stephen Warnock is also with us. Stephen, where did that performance come from? They've been better in Europe than they have by and large in the Premier League this season, Liverpool. But the energy, the drive, the pressing, everything that everybody's been crying out for this season was in this performance?

3:38Yeah, I think there was a real desire about the team to try and get a result tonight. They lifted the crowd. The crowd lifted them as well. They gave the crowd something to get off the seats about. There was an energy about them. I don't know where it's been, though, Kelly. I really don't, because if they'd have played like that for most of the season, they'd have been competing for the title. However, they still fell short in terms of really creating anything major in terms of very, very clear. Yes, Paris Saint-Germain defended well at times, but I still think they're a little bit lacking some energy in wide areas, players who are direct.

4:12And I know they brought Inge Moura on, but you could see his naivety at times when he came on. But yeah, they're missing something at the moment, but a better performance. ESPN's French football journalist, Julien Laurent, is also at Anfield. A much closer game, this one. Jules, very different from last week in Paris. Was this one about Paris Saint-Germain's individual quality players?

4:34Julien Laurens:Yeah, I think there was a bit of that, Kelly, certainly. But also the team spirit in that second half when Liverpool put pressure. PSG were really struggling, I think, to get out of their own box, of their own half. They were not building, passing the ball like they did in the first half. They were playing long. It kept coming back by waves, like red waves after red waves. And I think they showed a lot of character. I think this is a game that maybe three, four years ago, before Luis Enrique arrived, they would have lost. But now the experience of having won this competition last season, for example, having that kind of experience.

5:04Julien Laurens:Marquinhos today, he hasn't always been great, you know, he's on his way out really, he's 32 years old now, but this kind of performance I think also came from last season and the confidence that you gain by winning this competition before which they didn't have in previous seasons and all those kind of remontadas that we mentioned pretty much and I thought it made the difference but for me again, and I don't want to blame on the slot again like we did last week but that lineup to start was complete nonsense that second half should have been exactly how Liverpool should have started this game tonight to get the crowd going it should not have been Isak from the start that was I don't even understand Rony where that came from he said before the game he can only play 45 minutes why are you starting him then unbelievable I don't understand and he made a mistake he made errors in that first half in the first leg sorry in his lineup, in the way I think they set up.

6:00Julien Laurens:And again, we said before the game, tonight he cannot get it wrong. Tonight is not the game to get it wrong. You can't change a half-time and expect them to turn around this game. He had to get it right from the beginning. And for me, again, he let the team down and the club down and the fans down. Andros Townsend is with us too. Andros, strong words from Jules on Arnazlott's team selection at the beginning. Not necessarily the changes they made in the match. Certainly that second-half performance was full of all the energy that Liverpool wanted. But should they have started that way? No, I understand his reasoning.

6:31He said Isaac can only play 45 minutes. So if he brought him on at half-time and there was a potential extra time, then it would exceed his limits. He'd have to make an extra change. Mo Salah played with an aggression, an energy, a frustration, which we haven't seen in a while. So if he had started, would he have had that same aggression, same energy from the start? Probably not. I think the changes at half-time made a difference. Cody Gakpo, especially with his link-up play in that second half, was crucial to everything Liverpool did. So I understand the frustration from the guys and the Liverpool fans, but I think he did the right thing.

7:01He tried to go for pace, he tried to go for directness, he tried to go for that pressing ability off the ball, but it just turns out there's only the second half, once he made those changes, that Liverpool started to see the joy. You could, I suppose, Stephen, make the argument for not including Isak from the beginning based on how he played when he has made cameos coming back from injury. based on the fact that he's not fit yet. He's certainly not match fit. Just five first half touches from him. I don't know what to say about him, Kelly. I watched him here against Fulham. He was awful. He was non-existent here tonight.

7:36He didn't want to get any physical contact alongside Marquinhos. He was just sort of wanting to bump into him. There was no pinning him, no wanting to build a platform for his team to get on the ball and help. Gapro did more. and I said it in commentary, in five minutes than Isak did in the whole first half. He's not fit. He's nowhere near fit. And that's partly due to, obviously, the injury that he sustained against Tottenham, but also sitting out pre-season. I mean, he's not got one ounce of fitness in him this season, and it tells. And you're thinking that you can put him in against Paris Saint-Germain in the biggest game of your season against the best team in Europe and think you're going to get a performance in 45 minutes.

8:19you can't just switch it on and off.

8:21Julien Laurens:Andros, that's what, Andros, I'm sorry, I don't understand why you said this is the right line-up. I really don't. I can't understand you saying that Isai was right to start. I didn't say it was the right line-up. I said I understood Schlott's reasoning that starting him for 45 minutes might have been better than bringing him on and potentially have to make another offensive change and bring him off if there was extra time. If he only had 45 minutes, they have to be the first 45 minutes because you're not in control of the second. But then if he made two passes and touched the ball five times, they played with 10 men in the first half I don't even think he could play 45 minutes 10 at best at the end if you're pushing and you're 1-0 up maybe but 45 never in a million years and certainly not from the start Kelly the interesting thing is when I watch Paris Saint-Germain tonight and said it to Jules at half time they don't carry men Liverpool carry players and it's incredible they carry Wurtz they carry Salah they carry Di Saka in the first half Kirkus Kirkus but you can't carry players You watch Paris Saint-Germain.

9:19Kraneskelia is in the right-back position, the left-back position. Dwey's doing it. Barcola's doing it. Dembele ends up there and you're thinking, that's a team, that's a performance. Liverpool don't do that at the moment and that's a real concern. So are they carrying them? Sorry, Ian, just to pick up on that point with Stephen. Are they carrying them because the players aren't good enough or are they carrying them because the players aren't putting in enough effort? Are they carrying them because they're not being put in the right line-up by on a slot? What do you think? Well, there's a mixture of everything, but I think when you look at the way the players are performing at the moment, there's got to be more of a desire.

9:56The desire comes from within to go run back. And to be fair, I thought Mohamed Salah, he gave the wall away three or four times. His work rate to get back in was decent tonight at times, but then he does cheat at other times where he stays up the field. But then Isak, he didn't close down. he didn't really cause any problems he didn't do anything Wirtz off the ball does he have an impact on the game does he get back into positions and really I mean you only have to look at João Neves and Vettinia the size of them they win the ball back they know how to challenge they know how to tackle and that's the real difference at the moment I just think for what did Wirtz cost?

10:34£110 million? I don't think he's having enough of an impact I don't think at the moment we're seeing him and I think that is also down to the personnel that he plays with. I think if you put him in the Paris Saint-Germain team and you had two flying wingers running either side of him, I think he'd flourish. I think if you had Luis Diaz in this Liverpool team still, I think he'd flourish. But at the moment, he doesn't have players around him that are making runs off him, which are really telling. I think the problem is, Stephen, and I don't know if you agree, I think Slott was probably expecting this season to have more possession, more domination, so you can get the players like Florian Verts more into the game, like PSG do.

11:12I don't think it's worked out that way in the way that he would have hoped. And Virts is on the fringes. He's not, like you say, he's not pulling his way out of possession. But yeah, I think it's the fact that they're not as successful, as dominant as they were expecting coming into the season. Yeah, I understand that. But when you watch Paris Saint-Germain, I know what you're saying. They're brilliant on the ball. But when they need to explode and they need to be dynamic, oh, are they dynamic? Liverpool aren't dynamic. There's no dynamism in the team at all. I look at them and just think, where is it?

11:42Even N 'Gamoa, when he came on tonight, he tried to run Hakimi a couple of times. And the lad's 17. It's a great lesson for him tonight. And he will have to learn from it. But you've got to look at the other team and think, that's the goal. That's where you aspire to be the level.

11:59Julien Laurens:And that's why you have to look, Kelly, again, at the recruitment in the summer. I'm sorry, this is... I know we got all excited, and rightly so, and if you're a Liverpool fan, because it's Isaac and Wirt, it's a QTK all you want. But the way this squad has been structured and built, there's some quite massive lags in what this squad should look like in terms of options, different profiles in different positions. Even you look at the midfield, I'm sorry, but McAllister this season has been far too difficult, but yet there's not really another option at a similar level. And then you can look in different positions.

12:32Julien Laurens:The fullbacks, of course, again, tonight, Frimpong can only play 45 minutes because it's just not good enough. Kerkers on the other side. I'm not sure why Robertson is not playing a game like this. Don't get it myself. I don't get it at all either. Kerkers is all over the place. And you look at the money spent, and I know it's not just about the money spent, the net spent and all of that, but this squad should have far more variation in profiles in a lot of key positions than they really have right now. What's interesting about that is, yes, the money spent, and I know I'm really not giving you the net spend argument here, but in terms of the quality of the players that left, Obviously, Trent Alexander-Arnold leaving the team is a huge miss for Liverpool.

13:15Then Luis Diaz leaving and going off where he's having a great season at Bayern. Even someone like Darwin Nunez, when you're looking for late goals in games, obviously we're looking at the case of Diogo Jota as well. The players that are missing for Liverpool, on top of that, the players who are still there and who haven't reached the levels that they did last season, like, for example, McAllister. All of that in the mix means that for a team that... I think I read a stat that Liverpool started the season with more changes to their starting XI than any previous defending Premier League champions.

13:54So it's not just about spend and net spend. It's about the amount of players who are coming in, the amount of players who are going out, and the personnel who are coming in, and the quality of the players who are leaving.

14:05Julien Laurens:Yeah, you're right. And, you know, we said last season on our Sunday show as well, on Five Live. Slot arrived with a squad that was already there. Nobody to integrate, nobody to accommodate. The squad was there. He did a lot of really good things and they won the title and they were by far the best team in the country. But this, in a way, was easy for him when he arrived. He arrived for pre-season, the squad was there, you had the leaders in that dressing room that were already identified. This season was a proper challenge for him as a manager because, like you said, Kels, half of your starting lineup was new.

14:36Julien Laurens:You had to integrate and incorporate and a Kitike, an Isak, Wirtz. And to go back to the point we've just made about how this squad has been built, then you ended up with two number nines. You wanted two world-class number nines. You have them, but they're very similar. You end up with Wirtz, who is very good, but where does he play? Where's his best position? Can you get him in the same environment that he had at Bayer Leverkusen? You look at Kerkers and Frimpong. They're great, but they're two very attacking fullbacks. What's the balance there if they both play and both go forward at the same time?

15:06Julien Laurens:There's a problem. Your team is unbalanced. and all of that and you go again and for slot he had to find the right formula and I'm sorry he has struggled for most of the season Jules do you think that Eketike's early form disrupted that balance a lot because for me hindsight is a wonderful thing but we go into the summer Liverpool champions by a country mile the best side in the country and then you had Florian Virch then you had Isak who was the best number nine last season in the Premier League and you're thinking like okay back to back Liverpool going to do it again do you think Eketike's early form man, Isak's lack of fitness come into the season disrupted the balance.

15:41Then he's got to play two of them. He's got to play Isak on the left. Isak's on the bench. Then there's question marks. Salah's on the bench. Do you think that disrupted things a lot?

15:48Julien Laurens:Yeah, I agree, Andros. I promise you. And I think, in a way, the late, late signing of Isak derailed everything for me. You could have kept a key ticket, not spent 150 or whatever it was on Isak. Keep Wirtz. And maybe that 150 that you spend on Isak, spend somewhere else. another centre-back. We mentioned Gehi. We haven't mentioned Gehi, but how did Gehi not end up here is ridiculous, really. Maybe another midfielder. Maybe one of those wingers, like Warnie was saying, with that kind of drive, with that kind of pace, with that kind of energy as well, to just add to Chiesa or Salah or Gakpo or even Ngumoa.

16:26Julien Laurens:And yet, for me, that Issaic arrival, I know they really wanted him. I know, I know. But I'm not sure that was really necessary. But what really derailed Liverpool was the tragic loss of Diogo Josa. Of course, of course. And I don't think we'll ever realise the ramifications and the impact that that had behind the scenes. The other thing that I was going to say before, Kelly, is about Eketika. We haven't touched upon it about the game. Exactly, about the injury. The injury after 31 minutes where Salah comes on to replace him. If Stephen with his beady eye is right, and it is an Achilles injury, he'll be out for the season and he'll be out for the World Cup for France.

17:01Damaging blow for both club and country. Absolutely. And next up for Liverpool, and we don't know yet what the prognosis is on Eketike, but again, it could be really worrying. But next up for Liverpool, obviously without Eketike, certainly for that game, is the Merseyside derby at the weekend, Stephen. How long can Isak play for in that one? Do we know yet? How many touches would he get? Eketike injured, Isak not fit. Yeah, well, the big thing is, I do a podcast with my friend who's a former fitness coach, and we talked about it straight away when he came in and said he is not going to be fit for the rest of the season because he hasn't trained, he's trained individually, and it's not good enough.

17:44You cannot buy a player for£140 million and watch him sit there and not do a pre-season for nine weeks and then bring him in and think, do you know what, we'll accelerate his pre-season. It will never happen, and that is a massive problem for him. and then obviously he's picked up his other injury. But the other side of it is, and I know I'm going off a little bit here, but when you watched him for Newcastle, he played with two flying wingers. Well, where's the two flying wingers in this team? So there's a completely different match of what you're trying to achieve on the football pitch. Looking forward to Sunday, Kelly.

18:18I look at that forward line and I think, will he go with Ingramoa? Will Ingramoa's confidence have been hit a little bit tonight? because I thought he looked like it was getting drained out of him a bit by Hakimi because Hakimi defended him so well. Gapho possibly through the middle. Salah will probably play on the right-hand side or maybe a two up top. It's going to be fascinating because, I said it in commentary, they go into that game now as underdogs because Everton will fancy the chances against them and it's not often we go into a Merseyside derby feeling that way. Stephen, would you not say now with your four points clear of Chelsea in sixth, obviously Eketike looks like he's picked up a serious injury would you not give Isak like now six games you're the number nine for six or maybe five of them go and show everyone what you can do go and get your fitness up so then you can go into the summer ready for next season to really get going Yeah the problem is though Andros you know what it's like when you haven't played and you've got an injury record like him the possibility is that you're going to pick up another one he picks up so many calf injuries, hamstring injuries he is quite brittle in a way when you look at him and he's got that record But Liverpool obviously spent big money, thought that they could manage that and make sure that he was going to be ready for the season.

19:28That might just be the Evertonian saying that he wants a not-fit Isak to start against Everton in the first Merseyside derby at Hill Dickinson Stadium. That could be a huge game. Like you said, Everton may well fancy their chances in that one. So Paris Saint-Germain are through. Let's hear what Arna Slott had to say.

19:47Julien Laurens:I think we made a lot of progression compared to last week. I have to give a lot of credits to the players how hard they worked, I have to give a lot of credits to our fans how they helped us tonight to execute our game plan and that means if we have a high press it's so helpful if there are fans behind you to keep on pushing you, pushing you, pushing you. That's what they did. Unfortunately, it's one of the many examples of this season where we weren't able to score from the many chances we had. Again, we were so far underperforming in terms of XG. That is just an ongoing thing with us throughout the whole season.

20:24Julien Laurens:Add to that, as it seems to be a bad injury, we don't know sure yet, add to that another intervention of the VAR which was not in our favour, and that's also not for the first time this season. Then, of course, we are very disappointed because I think there were parts in the second half where you could just feel if we can score now this is going to become a special night. But, but, but, the future looks very bright for this team, for this club, because we've shown that we can compete with the champions of Europe in our stadium. To be the dominant team, not many teams can be dominant against the Paris Saint-Germain and generate so many chances as we did.

21:06Julien Laurens:But yeah, chances is one thing, scoring is a second. Liverpool's Premier League title defence faltered early on in the season. There will be no Champions League progress from this point onward for them. PSG will face the winner of Bayern Munich against Real Madrid. They play on Wednesday night and there'll be updates on 5 Live during commentary of Arsenal against Sporting. The winner of that game will play Atletico Madrid, who had another night to remember in the Champions League against Barcelona. Conor McNamara. Yes, it finished on the evening. Atletico 1, Barcelona 2. And that is good enough for a 3-2 progression on aggregate for Diego Simeone's team.

21:44And as so often these knockout ties proved to be pulsating in the latter stages of the Champions League. Barcelona were tuning up from the first leg. I'm sorry, Atletico tuning up from the first leg. You'll remember that Barcelona played with 10 men for more than half of that game at home. Again tonight, Barcelona picking up another red card. This time for Eric Garcia. But all the same it was a brave performance from the young Barcelona team. The youngest side Barca had ever named for a Champions League knockout game. But as so often with Atletico, it was beauty against the beast. And they were able to dig in and they had the strength and they were able to progress through to the semifinal.

22:20In terms of the game, Jamal scored after four minutes to give Barcelona hope. Ferran Torres equaled up the tie at 2-2 after just 24 minutes. It was a blistering start from Barcelona. But then the key goal, Adamola Lugman scoring for Atletico Madrid. And that's the goal that sends them through. Andros, if Arsenal get through tomorrow night against Sporting, this could be a tough draw for them in the semi-final. I mean, look, it's the Champions League semi-finals. It's going to be difficult. But Atleti in particular with the way that they set up. Yeah, and I think now they've sort of evolved from the Simeone low-block football.