UEFA Threatens Full FIFA Boycott Over World Cup Sale Plans

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1:05Julien Laurens:This is the Football Daily Podcast with Eleanor Oldroyd. Hello and welcome to the Football Daily Podcast where we're bringing you the breaking news that UEFA's 55 member associations have voted to boycott all FIFA competitions if Gianni Infantino and FIFA proceeds with a plan to sell stakes in its competitions, including the World Cup, to private investors. Our chief football news reporter, Simon Stone, is here. Simon, we were talking about this last night and we knew this was going to get big. And this is a huge statement from UEFA. Yes, we were sat in these very seats last night. I said that I think this story is as big as European Super League.

1:49and I still think it is as big as European Super League. The implications are huge. The kind of shock value of what is happening is enormous. Now we're waiting to find out how Gianni Infantino and FIFA are going to react to what UEFA have done this afternoon. Adam Crafton from The Athletic is also with us this evening, Adam. Are you surprised at how strong and how united UEFA have been on this? I think there's maybe a little bit of surprise about how united they are in the sense that there were some soundings yesterday that the Czech Association, for example, were initially sort of wavering. And I'm sure some of the federations will be looking at this and thinking, this is a lot of money to just say no to without even taking a real look at it.

2:43so a little bit in that sense not surprised in terms of UEFA centrally I mean there's been a huge amount of hostility between UEFA and FIFA for years now a lot of that stems between kind of tension over FIFA's attempts to grow in the club game to get a slice of the club revenues remember the UEFA Champions League is the most lucrative club competition in the world but you now have this FIFA Club World Cup, which launched last summer. And UEFA have seen that as, you know, gate-crashing their baby, which is the Champions League. And I think that's where a lot of this stems from. And that's why, you know, Sheffron, the UEFA president, didn't attend the World Cup final.

3:25I don't think he attended the Club World Cup final last year as well, possibly, maybe also the World Cup draw in December. So this is very long-standing hostility. And ESPN's Julien Laurent is also with us. And Jules, we should make the point, shouldn't we, that this is not just the big powerhouses. It's not just France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Portugal, England. It's all 55 nations in UEFA.

3:55Julien Laurens:Hi, Eli. Hi, everyone. Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's good that they are so united, like Adam just said. I think that's only from the French point of view, and speaking to Philippe Diallo, the head of the French FA, yesterday which was a special day because of the whole zinedine zidane story etc etc but he said if you start agreeing to this kind of thing god knows where infantino and the rest will take it next because it seems that why infantino is trying to do and you know trying to get as much money as possible for fifa for himself very likely to uh seems to be to have no boundaries really and i think the response from ufr was like we we can't do we you know we can't We can't go too far on how much we would want to earn money.

4:38Julien Laurens:I don't know if earn is even the right word for it, but get that money through selling some of our soul with the World Cup. It's something that is the biggest sporting event in the world, and then you can't just do anything you want with it. I think that response, that very strong response was for that. It's something you can't really touch, but Infantino, I think, is ready to have a look, to test the water. That's exactly what he's doing. I think that the fact that he wanted an answer very quickly from all those federations around the world, through the letter that he sent last week and to kick basically everything on January the 1st, 2027, shows you that he knew this was going to be so controversial that you had to do it quickly.

5:18Julien Laurens:Otherwise, if you let people think too much about it, then you would lose inevitably. So it's another Infantino ploy, really, which is not the first time and not the last time. No. Well, let's read you this statement from UEFA. It's 500 words, so we have actually cut it down very slightly, but this is what they said at around 4pm this afternoon. UEFA and its 55 member associations stand as one. We unanimously and unequivocally reject FIFA's proposal to transfer ownership interests in the World Cup and other FIFA competitions to private investors. The World Cup cannot be treated as an investment product.

5:53It is one of football's greatest sporting legacies. It has been built over generations by players, national teams and supporters across every continent. No part of it should ever be surrendered to private investors. The World Cup is not for sale. It is both irresponsible and indefensible that a proposal of such significance for football was conceived in secret and brought to the brink of approval without any meaningful consultation with those entrusted with stewarding the game. Europe's position is clear. We will never lend this model our legitimacy. No one has the moral authority to sell what they merely hold in trust for the next generation.

6:31As a result of today's discussion, no UEFA national teams will participate in any FIFA competition for so long as these proposals remain alive, unless this proposal has been abandoned in its entirety and binding assurances have been given that FIFA will never again open its governance or competitions to private ownership. Nobody should be in any doubt. UEFA and its national associations will oppose these plans with absolute determination. Some things are simply too important to sell. The FIFA World Cup belongs to football. It always will. And so long as Europe has a voice, it will never be for sale.

7:08Well, Simon, that is a slightly shorter version of that very long statement. It's a seismic moment in football. And we should say that it is about the World Cup. And I've mentioned the World Cup, the men's World Cup in all of this. But it's about more than that as well. It's about women's competitions. And there are more women's competitions an awful lot closer on the horizon than the next FIFA Men's World Cup. Yes, actually, there's a women's under 20s World Cup, six European teams, including England, participating in it. And that's due to start on the 5th of September, which is before the deadline that's been set.

7:46We've got the Women's World Cup playoffs that are due to take place in October and then the Women's World Cup next year as well. So there's more on the horizon in terms of FIFA and women's football at the moment than there is with the men's game, because clearly we've just finished the World Cup and the Club World Cup happened last year. It's interesting, though, because within the kind of reaction to FIFA's statement, I was told that in the room, it's a virtual meeting, but everybody could see what was going on. But in the room, Debbie Hewitt, who is a FIFA vice president, spoke out against this plan.

8:29Mark Bullingham, the chief executive, spoke out against this plan. The FA released a statement saying they agree unequivocally with the concerns that have been expressed by UEFA and were fully supportive. The SFA, whose president Mike Mulrani is the chair of the FIFA's finance committee. So he's internal to FIFA. They said that they stand shoulder to shoulder with their colleagues in Europe. The World Cup belongs to football and always will. And I think part of this stems from the fact that nobody knew. Adam made the point about getting out into the open because there was going to be pushback.

9:15But the vice president of FIFA didn't know. If the finance committee didn't know, well, has Infantino just gone off and decided this is a good idea himself? And I think that more than anything, almost, is the major issue that Infantino has just acted alone in this. Well, a little bit earlier on, I spoke to the former executive director of the FA, David Davis, who gave me his thoughts on UEFA's stance that they took today.

9:44Julien Laurens:My view is if you accept the UEFA statement at face value, it is make up your mind time for its 55 members, including the British nations. They don't have a majority of the so-called FIFA family. On the other hand, I would have to say that CUP's world competitions without Europe would be pretty meaningless. And that is the situation we're in tonight. Relations between FIFA and UEFA have been going downhill for several months and indeed years. and now they're as bitter as they were, quite remarkably in one sense, as they have been since the days of Mr Blatter. So are you surprised that it's got to this with Gianni Infantino, that we're in this situation with him?

10:41Julien Laurens:I am surprised at the political handling and the political ineptness of the handling of this issue by FIFA and you know the most difficult things why I say it's make up your mind time for UEFA and its 55 members is it's hard to see where the compromise is in all this when you read the statement today from UEFA when they talk about the profound failure of leadership now if that's not aimed at Mr Impantino, I don't know what is. They talk about governance by intimidation. Some things are too important to sell. I do not see where the compromise on something like this is. Are you surprised, actually, that the FA have been so supportive of this?

11:34Because they, you know, they stand to lose an awful lot. You know, well, I mean, future tournaments, most obviously, when actually we're in a period of relative success for the men's and the women's teams in FIFA competitions.

11:46Julien Laurens:That is the, that's one of the issues, one of the big issues for UEFA. And it's not just England, it's Spain and Portugal, the next hosts, primary hosts of the next Men's World Cup. And, you know, not all 55 members of UEFA even are wealthy. Try Andorra, try some of the smaller Eastern European countries. And if an old sceptic like me remains sceptical of keeping all 55 countries in line on this, it's that, you know, increasing their income, their revenue by three, four times and saying no to that might be quite difficult for some of those nations. Can you realistically see this going through and there being a World Cup without any of the 55 UEFA nations?

12:43Julien Laurens:Personally, I don't. Somehow or another, you suspect that a compromise will be thrown together. But I think for the leadership of FIFA, this is hugely damaging. um i i'm i don't really see that you can have a world cup that is meaningful even to its winners if europe hasn't taken part and that is the difficulty and that's before you get to investors by the way of any sort at all and sponsors and the like of that i mean politically the naivety less, what is it, just about two weeks since the end of whatever its rights and wrongs, an enormously lucrative World Cup in North America, to be in this situation is extraordinary.

13:43Do you think this could be the thing that brings down Gianni Infantino in the end? He's survived an awful lot in the last couple of years, a lot of controversies. Could this be a final straw?

13:52Julien Laurens:Again, I have to be a little sceptical. The truth of the matter is Mr. Infantino knows that he has a majority of FIFA without Europe. If Europe can stick together, they can make a real difference. I do not think that anybody will ultimately want to have a World Cup, calling it a World Cup, without Europe. Well, that was the former executive director of the FA, David Davis, speaking to me just before we came on air, in fact. It's interesting, Adam Crafton, it's interesting the point that he makes of the fact that the UEFA bloc is a very powerful one, but it's very much a minority one still in FIFA because there are 211 member associations in FIFA.

14:43So I'm just wondering who you think thought this is a good idea or thinks this is a good idea. Well, I think the African Confederation has said that they will go away and look at the idea. I think what we're seeing here is an individual at the top of FIFA who has been allowed to basically get away with pushing the envelope for the last few years really without any substantial opposition. The only one that was previously pushed back on strongly was the idea to make the World Cup every two years. But if you were to just go through a roll call of some of what he's been able to get away with, the treatment of migrant workers in Qatar, which is now largely forgotten about, sadly, the intervention by President Trump on the Balogun decision on a far less important level hydration breaks the Peace Prize, so much of this was done without consultation of many of the people that we're speaking about now on FIFA councils and executives and committees so when somebody's been able to get away with so much for so long, I think this starts to feel invincible and we should remember that I think there were reports that well over a hundred of the member associations have already sent in their letters saying they're going to support Gianni for another term when that comes around next year, including some of those European federations.

16:10So it can't be a surprise that he now feels untouchable. Yeah. And Jules, I don't know what you think about this. Is he untouchable? Could this be something? I mean, you know, he's created a massive schism in world football, just as David Davis said, two weeks after a very, very lucrative and successful World Cup.

16:27Julien Laurens:Yeah, I agree with Adam though. I think he will be re-elected next year because I think a lot of people have already agreed to vote for him. There's not really any candidate that can go against him. I think it's too short of the time anyway. And that's why he certainly feels like that. I think he's somebody who's more interested in money than football, let's be honest here. And that's why he feels like that. That's why he's trying to get this. I don't even think it's that great of a deal for those federations anyway, when you think of how much really the value of the World Cup could be. And let's not forget that it's something that if those investors get in 20 % of the value of the World Cup at the current price that was certainly mentioned, they can easily sell that probably for more money and actually make a massive profit, which is, again, without going into who might be allowed to get into that investment if gone through, or I don't think it will go through anywhere.

17:18Julien Laurens:But it just, it sounds dodgy. It feels dodgy. It looks dodgy. Everything seems so dodgy. But I think Infantino has been so dodgy since he took over FIFA anyway. So I like, I just, I think this is disgraceful. Absolutely disgraceful. I just don't see how you can try to defend this idea that, again, is against everything that Sunday football used to. Pop quiz. What's in your kid's lunchbox? At Whole Foods Market, they've already done the studying. Over 300 food ingredients are banned from their shelves. No hydronated fats in the peanut butter and no high fructose corn syrup in the cookies. And for sandwiches, there are no synthetic nitrates or nitrites in any of their deli meat.

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18:39Julien Laurens:Teach as before.

19:08Julien Laurens:We'll be right back. Settle down, tough. Sorry, mate. Cricket on Five Live Sport. Oh, I've lived in every ball of this. Listen on BBC Sounds. You're listening to the Football Daily Podcast with Eleanor Oldroyd. Let's speak to Laura McAllister, who is a vice president at UEFA and was there in the room for this UEFA vote. Laura, good evening. Thank you so much for joining us. Good evening. My pleasure. What was it like? Well, in the room or on this call between these 55 nations? In a virtual room, yeah. Well, you know, it was really uplifting, Ellie. I thought it felt like a group of federations who were united in a desire to stop what could be an apocalyptic intervention in our sport.

19:57There was a real sense of unity and of purpose and the need to make as strong a possible stance as we could against a proposal that really threatened the very ethics and principles of our game. So it was uplifting in that sense. It was emotional as well. But the fact that we were able to reach a consensus amongst 55 very different federations, you know, from very small ones to medium sized ones to large ones, says a lot about the sense of purpose and objective from the whole discussion. It's interesting isn't it that we've just had a men's World Cup there's women's competitions on the horizon including the under 20 women's World Cup in five weeks time what do you feel like this is going to do for all of those players who will be looking forward to taking part in these competitions?

20:45Look you know I'm a former international player myself and my own country Wales is involved in the playoffs for the women's World Cup in the autumn and it would be our first qualification for a World Cup So nobody can even countenance the thought of not being involved in those. But let's be clear here, you know, this is not a problem of UEFA's making. It's a problem that FIFA have created. You know, there was no consultation, no due diligence, no proper governance over the proposal. And they've put us all in a position where we had to not just talk the talk, but walk the walk. And having come out so categorically as UEFA did, quite rightly, and I couldn't be prouder of the stance we've taken this week, we then, of course, had to follow through with a very strong decision about what we did next.

21:35And the fact that that was supported by every single one of the 55 nations gives you a sense of how strongly people feel. But nobody wants players to suffer and nobody wants nations to suffer when it comes to the most prestigious competitions. but we've been pushed into this corner and that's really FIFA's responsibility. Laura, Simon Stone here. Just in terms of what FIFA are offering, we know this kind of$20 million and$40 million at some point in 2027. Clearly, if you think about England and the Premier League, that's not a great amount of money. But for Wales, I would imagine it's quite a lot of money.

22:17and for some of the countries in Europe that are a lot smaller than Wales, it would be a huge amount of money. Is that not a head-turner in any way? Did you not get that sense? Well, it's a very good point, Simon. I mean, you know, it's a lot of money. There's no doubt at all about that. But the way in which the money was presented has actually acted as a kind of antidote to the size of the sum offered, if you get my gist, because people are suspicious of the rationale behind the proposal. the lack of consultation, the speed at which this is being pushed through. And I think sometimes people take a rather slanted look at the finances of FIFA because the organisation made over$15 billion from the World Cup.

23:04And that's money that is naturally, or should be, distributed back to each of the confederations and each of the federations within the confederations. It's our money, you know, without the national teams. the World Cup wouldn't succeed. So there is money available. You know, FIFA has enormous reserves. I think we know that as well. And the point about football's governance is that because we're not-for-profit, in essence, that the money goes straight back into the game. There's no point sitting on huge reserves. We don't have huge reserves in UEFA because the money goes straight back into developing youth football, women's football, and, of course, the men's game.

23:40So I think there needs to be a more honest and robust conversation over the financial side. But your point is, did this turn heads? Well, all I can say about that from a UEFA standpoint is that every single one of the nations in Europe voted in favour of the proposal that we had on the table today to boycott FIFA tournaments. And that tells you something about the strength of feeling there is. Hey Laura, it's Adam here. I just wanted to ask, we've seen over the past few years this pattern of the FIFA executive, and I guess really the FIFA president, doing many things that I think European football executives have been uncomfortable about but haven't always vocalised publicly whether that's the ticket prices that we saw this summer whether it was the Peace Prize last summer whether it so many so many things why is this thing the breaking point what is it about this particularly that has gone one step further And actually, is the FIFA president's position tenable to you after this?

24:48Well, taking your first point, Adam, I don't think it's fair to say that this decision that we've taken today is a standalone one, you know, because UEFA has spoken out very strongly over recent months around ticket pricing and dynamic ticket pricing for the World Cup, around the way supporters were treated, around the red card rescinding. Lots of us in our own federations felt very strongly about the so-called Peace Prize. So there's a whole sequence of interventions from FIFA that lots of us in Europe feel uncomfortable about. So you could put that down as accumulation, I guess, you know, that we've got to a position where, having seen the proposal that was set before the federations at very short notice this week with no consultation with any of the confederations like UEFA.

25:41Is it the final straw that breaks the camel's back? Well, to a point it is, but let's not kid ourselves. This could have been the most catastrophic intervention in football during the existence of the organisation of the game because the minute you sell a part of the game to private equity, the rules of the game change, literally. The motivations for those involved with private equity are clearly financial and the acquisition of returns on the investment, and therefore their intervention in the game becomes conditioned by those desires, if you like. Whereas in a governance model that is not for profit, we as custodians of the game, and we're only temporary custodians of the game, of course, because we leave it for other generations to develop.

26:30We have to really think properly about the development and the investment in the game. But once you change those rules, that's permanent. There's no going back from that, let's say. So that's why I think this was such an important issue for us to deal with in so powerful and categorical a way as we have today. Laura, when you look at the statement that's been made today by UE for this stance that has been taken, and you look at the prospect of a particular men's World Cup, because obviously that is the highest value asset that FIFA have, without the European nations involved, it's a much, much, much, much diminished asset, isn't it?