World Cup: England's World Cup Begins

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1:12It is finally here. For you listening now, it is England Day, the match we've been waiting for for what feels like forever. Before we get into all that, though, today we did a workout class together. so it was a load of very athletic ladies doing a circuit workout and then us looking like Little and Large or Hale and Pace and at the end which one's which? well you tell me and the state of us at the end is a genuine embarrassment and I have posted up a picture of us not looking at our best we looked like we put a shift in didn't we? we looked like we've just been relieved of a hostage situation.

1:55Yes. Which is kind of what it felt like. It felt like, it was, I mean, it's very different over in LA. It's harder. It's just harder working. It is very different over here and the heat and the weights, I think they're heavier because of the heat. I think they must be. Absolutely. So yeah, it was, I mean, we, we, we didn't look great, mate. No, we didn't. Um, and you'll, you'll thank me for putting out the photo. Also, first little bit of friction I think that we've had, uh, so far on this, on this trip, um, because I wanted to go for lunch in a place and you took too long in the shower and then putting kind of industrial strength mousse in your hair or whatever it was you were doing.

2:31It's normal mousse. And we ran, I don't know what it was, but we ran out of time and we couldn't go to the place I wanted to go to for lunch. And I'm going to say I was annoyed and it's okay, but I forgive you. No, this is ridiculous. No, that's completely true. No, we'd finished our class and then we got back to the house. Yes, we made a plan. And then you basically went into your room, okay? I said, I'm going to shower so we can get ready. And then producer Lizzie and I were talking about the show and other things that we've got planned on for about... We were chatting for about 45 minutes. And then you came out and I was like, oh, are we ready?

3:03He was like, yeah, because you wanted to go to lunch before we were going to go and meet our friend for lunch. You wanted two lunches. I didn't want two lunches. Anyway, I forgive you. We subsequently went and had a late lunch with... Well, we fraternised with the enemy. We did. Max Rushton from the Guardian Football Weekly, which is a fantastic podcast. It is. And there's no getting away from it. If that's your thing, it is. Also, I have to say, when your colossal pile of loaded nachos arrived... Here we go. No, this is what you said. You said, help yourselves. I'm obviously not going to finish these.

3:40Those words left your lips. The next, genuinely, the next time I look at Tova, you'd basically lick the plate clean. I hadn't licked the plate clean because there was a bit of paper on it. It was paper, like baking paper. It was like a cliché of an oversized American portion. Don't do that for the listeners. He's doing it like it's a mountain. It was a mountain. It wasn't a mountain. You could barely see over it to see the screen. In my defence, okay, it didn't say sharers. It wasn't from the sharers section. It was from the mains and their big portions over here. You also had a main, but I didn't fat shame you with your eggs and rice.

4:20Also, you're having rice at lunchtime, even though it was a breakfast. Anyway, I did say, does anybody want some of these nachos? And you and Max were like... I won't finish them. I won't finish them. I said, I probably won't finish these. Does anybody want any nachos? And you went, oh, no, okay. I'm okay, thank you. So I just cracked on. And then, look, it was an exciting game. And I just got two into me nachos. And the next thing was, oh, there's only two left. Do you want them? And you and Max were like, no, we're fine, mate. Well, there's none of the nice stuff left. It was literally just two bear chips.

4:50Yeah, absolutely. But they were absolutely fantastic. Honestly, I feel... We did this lift lower body workout. We put such a shift in. And then you're just undoing all of that. And I did an upper body workout, just shoveling these nachos into my mouth. Honestly, I'm being fat. No, no, no, no. This feels like the bike app all over again. How many forks do you want? Just one and a straw. Thank you. Anyway. Well, we've had a great day of football again here. The big players all delivered. France 3, Senegal 1. France looked good. Mbappe with a couple. Norway beat Iraq 4-1. Haaland with a couple. Austria-Jordan is happening as we're recording now.

5:32But we have to start with Lionel Messi, who has looked at what Mbappe and Haaland did and said, Hold my Yerba Mate. if you're just waking up at the age of 38 he scored his first World Cup hat-trick in Argentina's 3-0 win against Algeria the man Lloyd is a he's a machine what's a Yerba Marte? you know it's the thing that all the Argentinians drink Marte yeah fantastic I thought that rather than beer it was a little no I liked it just in case there was anyone else from Grimsby that didn't know what a Yerba Marte is I thought let's just set the scene you liked it but you didn't understand it and that's fine And I know him as well.

6:11I know Lionel Messi. In what way? A good friend of mine. You actually did mention this earlier on. And you have literally met him. I've spent the day with him. Really nice chap. I'll be honest, that's surprising. The fact that I ever mentioned it. I've mentioned a lot of things this week. But no, I spent a day with him and he's absolutely lovely. And I'm over the moon for him. You know, as a fan of football and also as a friend. Yeah, and I'd probably take a bit of credit. He is the oldest player to score a hat-trick at a World Cup. he's now scored 16 World Cup goals so that means he is equal with Miroslav Kloser as a player who scored the most in World Cup history.

6:50This stat is like nuts 20 years to the day since his first World Cup goal which is on the 16th of June 2006. That's absolutely ridiculous. Jonathan Beers this is a nice touch on the 5 Live commentary he said yeah I remember commentating on that goal as well. Jonathan Pearce has been going for a long time. And this is not at all surprising. The 20-year period is the longest gap between first and last goals scored by a player in World Cup history. Look, I'll be honest here. I thought Messi's playing in the MLS. The standard's not great. Which is not as good as other divisions. He's not as good, yes.

7:34Because we are in America. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's old. No getting around it. He's 38. He's 38. He has his 39th birthday in a few weeks' time. Yeah. It's Lloyd. And I felt like, if anything, the Argentina team are going to be kind of carrying him in the way that I look at Portugal and think they're probably carrying Ronaldo at this point. He was a little bit older. And that I was thinking any of this just goes to show that I know very little indeed. Also, it did occur to me, do you know who's going to have absolutely hated that hat-trick? Your friend of mine, Cristiano Ronaldo. He'll be looking at that fuming.

8:15He will be livid. And also, obviously, the similarities that both of them are compared, you know, as the goats. I mean, are you on Team Messi? Are you on Team Ronaldo? They're both kind of coming towards the end of their careers in a league that's not the most competitive. And if I'm honest, do you know what I can see happening? Go on. Ronaldo scoring four goals. Just to try and better him, Ronaldo. Not a chance. And what will happen is, Ronaldo will just be screaming at his teammates for not passing to him. He'll be stopping his teammates' shots from going in. On the edge of it, just trying to tap it.

8:50And even if it's offside, it's classic Ronaldo, I reckon. So that's my prediction. But I'm saying that as a friend of Messi. Of course, yeah. I mean, my favourite thing about the kind of Messi-Ronaldo rivalry is I honestly think it kind of eats away at Ronaldo. Like he wants to be regarded as the best player in the world. And he certainly regards himself as the best player in the world ever. And I think Messi doesn't care. Doesn't think about it maybe. I think Messi's like, yeah, go on mate, have a go. Yeah. Have a go. I don't... Where's your World Cup? I do not believe that he thinks a lot about Cristiano Ronaldo.

9:29I do think Cristiano Ronaldo spends a lot of time thinking about that. I think it's very much like our relationship, should I mean. So hang on, which one am I here? Oh, I think you're Messi. That's very kind of me, actually. No, I think you're Messi. That's very kind. I think I am derised for sale. Who actually, for a brief time, was a player I really liked. So there we go. Yeah, it does. It fits. All right, let's get down to it then. England take on Croatia in their first game of the World Cup later today. We'll have live commentary for you on BBC Sounds with the wonderful John Murray and the equally wonderful Paul Robinson.

10:03And they join us now from Dallas. Yes, hello from Texas. Good evening. Good evening, both. How are you enjoying Dallas, John? Because the last time we spoke to you, you were in Mexico City having the time of your life. Yeah, sad, sad to leave Mexico. I didn't want to go. But at the same time, Fort Worth actually is where we're staying. And as we speak to you now, we've not actually been into Dallas, have we? because the stadium is in Arlington, which is next to Great Prairie, which is about 17 miles away from Dallas, and we're in the other direction about 15 miles. I love geography with John Murray.

10:40That's what I'm qualified to talk about geography. That's what I got my degree in. And Fort Worth. I finally put this to use. Yeah, exactly. Fort Worth, Rick, you would love it because of the JFK stuff there, because JFK and Jackie spent the last night before the fateful day staying in Fort Worth. And it is all over the town. And it's absolutely fascinating. And everywhere you go, you know, it's almost slightly chilling to think, you know, we've seen the hotel where JFK stayed and to think, you know, he stepped out of those doors and the plans that he had for the day, the plans that he had, of course, you know, that was going to be the end of it.

11:22And it really does make you think. Is that good or a bad omen before an England game? It's all right, don't worry. We're there, they're not. The England team, not there. We're there, they're not. But maybe a bad omen for us. Maybe we're better not going to Dallas. Paul and Lloyd, I'm assuming you're friends because Lloyd is apparently friends with every goalkeeper. Only good goalkeepers, good ex-goalkeepers. And Lloyd, has he not told you about his goalkeeper and exploits himself? He's not a bad goalkeeper. I mean, do you think he's mentioned it a couple of times? Yeah possibly Just like he's probably mentioned Grimsby Town's exploits In the playoffs this season as well Did you go to that lady?

12:02I haven't mentioned that but I do keep mentioning to Paul That the last time Paul Tottenham Hotspur played Grimsby Paul was in goal and Grimsby beat Tottenham 1-0 Jean-Paul Kamara-McAulala in the 88th minute And he hates it Any fault on your part for the goal Paul Remember it? It's always a goalkeeper's fault isn't it? Always a goalkeeper's fault But just thankfully the Manchester United lost there this season and took a bit of heat off us from all those years ago. They absolutely did, bless us. Now, Thomas Tuchel has just finished his press conference. John, you sat down with him. How was he, in good spirits?

12:34Yeah, I sensed a little bit of an edge compared to the other experiences I've had with him over the course of the last 18 months plus, and I can understand that because this is where it really begins for him, in earnest, because that's what he's employed to do, to win the World Cup for England. And it's all stretching out. It's very real now. And I think there was also a tinge of disappointment, the fact that they've lost Tino Liveramento. So that was, you know, probably eating away somewhere in there. But also, you know, he was talking about, you know, thinking about when he was a youngster coming to the World Cup as a coach.

13:18and what a, you know, it seems, the suggestion was that, you know, that was like a million miles away from him when he was a boy to think that he would come to the World Cup. So I think there's an edge of excitement, actually, as much as anything else about the fact that he will be involved in the World Cup for the first time. Well, let's hear from him now. Thomas, desperately disappointing news about Tino Liveramento, but on the eve of England's first match at this World Cup, what are you here to do to temper expectations or to talk it up? Neither. We were very clear of what we expect from ourselves.

13:51We expect to compete on highest level. And the focus at the moment is on group stage, not further, and not get distracted. And group starts tomorrow. We start tomorrow in the tournament. Very difficult match, strong opponent. This is where the focus is. We know what we expect from ourselves. We know what we want to do. And we feel that we're ready to go. And why Trevor Chalaba for the choice? for the first man to come in? First of all, we were very sad and devastated for Tino, who did everything to be fit with us. We waited until the very last moment, until he gave green light to be with us after his injury.

14:29To have this re-injury now in training made us sad. He was, of course, very sad, but that's how it is. He will go through it and come back stronger. Choice for Trevor is we just free up Jarrell Konza as a full-back for both sides. We have Chet Spence who can play on both sides. So we take an alternative and the fifth central defender is Trevor Chaloba, who covers us on both central defender positions. I know him personally and trained him, I can guarantee for his attitude and training. And he was always ready, always ready mentally to come and help us out, and that's what we do. When you named the squad, you did talk about the intention to rotate the team during the group stages.

15:18There's obviously been a lot of talk about what your starting line-up will be for the first match, but should we be expecting that? I don't know, to be very honest, I don't know. The intention is just an intention, but the reality is we have to react what's happening within matches and then in between matches. Then we will go from match to match. The intention is to use everyone, because everyone at the moment deserves to have minutes. The intention is to use the substitutions because they are pushing and they can change and influence matches on the highest level. But again, it's just intentions.

15:52We need to do what is necessary, what we feel at the sideline and then decide from match to match. And listen, Thomas, this is a first for you, isn't it? First to be involved in a World Cup. And I just wonder, you know, when you were maybe 12 years old, whether you would have thought all these years later, managing at a World Cup, managing England at a World Cup? There was no chance I could think that far. This was not even a dream, it was too far away. Now I'm very proud and I had fantastic 16 days within the Federation with my closest staff and with the players. So we feel ready to go. Now you arrive in the playing venue, you arrive in Dallas, you see the fans outside the stadium.

16:34This is where the excitement really kicks in because you feel, OK, now it really starts what you're prepared for. To say it is a dream come true, it is true, but when I was 12 years old or even like 22 years old or whatever, there was no such thing that I could realistically dream to be the head coach of England. So it is amazing, I'm very proud of it and an incredible experience. And I feel duty-bound to ask you before the first match, what do you think the chances are of putting another star on the England shirt? Well, we will try. We will try. We will compete for it. And the responsibility is in the effort.

17:12I think no one expects us to guarantee that because we cannot guarantee it. We don't know what the outcome is. We need luck on the way if we want to go all the way. And the responsibility is on the effort and on the courage that we show. And this starts tomorrow in group stage and that's where the focus is. Thanks, Thomas. speaking about calling up Trevor Chalabar in place of Tino Livramento and it's a slightly odd call because Chalabar is a centre-back, can you explain his thinking? Well I think he's a centre-back that can play that right-back and he can play both roles and he actually said that tonight in his press conference, actually it's funny enough that none of the journalists asked him the question about Trent Alexander-Arnold, what's been talked about today, why it wasn't Trent, I think there's going to be a few stories maybe written tomorrow about that and also Harry Maguire wasn't even in the conversation.

18:04So those two players you would think, you know, Trent Alexandrano would seem the ideal replacement for him, but you don't understand what the relationship is between those two. Is it frayed after not being called up? He clearly doesn't fancy him, for want of a better phrase, with his defensive capabilities. And actually Chalabar can play across anywhere in the back line. And does that allude to maybe a slight problem with one of the central defenders that he wants to cover as well? I think that he, you know, if he wanted Harry Maguire and Trent Alexander-Arnold in the squad, they'd be there already.

18:38And, you know, we're probably talking about bringing in someone who will be the 26th man. You know, it might well be, he gets on the field, but he knows Chalaboe well. He knows him from Chelsea. I think I've got a feeling he gave him his debut at Chelsea. So, you know, I think that plays into it. and we covered the match of the other day, didn't we, with Netherlands and Japan. Japan lost a player and brought in an attacking player, lost a defender in Endor and brought in an attacking player as the replacement. So I think there is a feeling that you want to bring in the best man for those set of circumstances.

19:15I think it is. I think that's a set of circumstances and the type of player that he's bringing into the squad. I think there's a big emphasis on the squad and the team rather than individuals. And I think when you look at Chalabah, There's nothing in his record, in his international record, that stands up against Harry Maguire or Trent. I mean, he's got one cap for England in a friendly, and that was the dismal performance against Senegal at the end of last season. Nevertheless, I can totally understand why people would say, why isn't it Trent Alexander-Arnold? You know, it's a very, very valid debate.

19:44Does Tuchel just not like Trent Alexander-Arnold? Because you do think that, from the point of view of the international press pack, they will look at Trent Alexander-Arnold as being this very gifted, certainly offensive player, who most countries would cry out for at least in their squad and probably in their starting XI. Yeah, I think it is a question that I'm sure will be asked, how is Real Madrid's right-back not in the England squad? But I listened back, Rick, to when he spoke on the very first day that he spoke to us as England manager, he did speak right back then about how it was his intention to put together the 26 players that made the best team and the best squad and who would not necessarily be the best 26 players who were available to him and you know he repeated that kind of thing on the day that he named his England squad and that's what he's got he has made his bed here with the 26 that he has picked and he will be judged on how they perform here Is there also a sense that Gerald Kwanza can come across and play at right back?

20:55Well yeah, I think he's you look at his starting 11, it's almost picking itself isn't it? Rhys James is going to play at right back Nico O 'Reilly will play at left back and then I think he's just looking at other options what he's got that can be versatile and John's absolutely right, he's always said that the group is more important than an individual and we go back to a game that we covered, was it Serbia at the start of this season when we were there and England won 5 and you look at the way that they played there, they had a lot of the big names missing in that game. And I think from that point on, Tuchel made a real point of saying after the game, he said, I've been telling you this for a while.

21:27I've been telling you this is coming. This has been happening in training. I've got a faith in this group of players. That performance I know has been coming. And then from there, they went on to win eight out of eight qualifiers and not concede a goal. So listen, you can't argue with the decisions that he's making until they go wrong. Is there anything in the idea that he wants to bring in a player who isn't going to, for want of a better turn of phrase, kick off if they don't get on the field of play. But if you bring in someone like Trent and then he doesn't get a single minute, is that going to create a sort of an atmosphere in the way that Trevor Chalabar coming in maybe won't?

22:03Absolutely, absolutely. And I think you can look at that and you can encapsulate that in the way that he's treated Jude Bellingham this season. He left him out of the March friendlies, not necessarily made him an automatic starter. Jude Bellingham knows that now he's got to fight for his shirt. He's got to fight for his place, not just in the squad, but in the team. And I think that grounding that he gave Jude Bellingham, I think he's been quite clever, Thomas Tuchel, because he knows that he needs a player of Jude Bellingham's quality. But he needs Jude Bellingham at his best, both on and off the field.

22:31And I think he left him out of the squad at times this season. He's left him out the side at times this season. At times where it wasn't overly important, he knew that the team would get the result it needed. And he's proved to Jude Bellingham that England don't need Jude Bellingham but England are better with Jude Bellingham at his best, if that makes sense. Thomas Tugger has spoken about having a plan, but also the need for flexibility. What is that plan, John, and do you have now an idea of that 11? Well, as I said to him there in the interview, again, when he named the squad, he was talking about rotating the team in the group stages.

23:09and as he kind of intimated there, that is the plan, that plan might change. But he's also spoken about having 14 to 15 starters and barring injuries, I think what England do here is going to be based around those 14 to 15 and the others might come into the reckoning as well, depends what happens. But that I think is the strategy there that you will see them changing the team from match to match. Saka's another one, isn't he? We spoke about that this morning, didn't we? He's obviously carrying that Achilles injury and he's going to have to manage his minutes. I think you look at the team that started against Costa Rica, I don't think that's going to be far away from the starting XI tomorrow.

23:48Saka, he knows that if they go deep in the tournament, he's going to be a key player for them. But I think at the moment with his injury, we might not see him start tomorrow. One man who will definitely be starting is Harry Kane. Let's hear from him. Just tell us, Harry, how are you feeling on the eve of the start of another World Cup for you? Yeah, excited, to be honest. Obviously, playing after six days or so, watching all the games, waiting for your turn. Obviously, the anticipation starts to grow. You just can't wait to be out there on the pitch. Definitely some excitement. Now we're here and seeing the stadium.

24:23Just looking forward to being out there with the boys, for sure. It is fair to say, isn't it, that you could barely be in better form heading into a World Cup after the amazing season that you've had. The numbers are incredible. Yeah, 100%. For sure, it's the best season I've ever had in my career. And it's a great time to do that, leading into a World Cup. You always want to stay fit and healthy towards the back end of the season, which I was able to do. And that leads us nicely into this summer. We had a great prep camp, two good friendly games. And now, yeah, I think not just me, but I think the whole team is just itching to kind of get out there and prove ourselves on the pitch.

25:00How has it made you feel about yourself to have hit totals like this? I think it just shows that all the hard work I put in, both on the pitch and away from the pitch as well, is obviously working. Always the mindset to improve and get better is possible, no matter how many years you've been playing the game. There's always stuff to learn and there's always ways you can improve. And this season has proved that. And not just to improve, but it's, I think, maybe 20-odd goals more than what I've had in other seasons or any other season in my career. Sounds ridiculous to say that. No, and so it just shows you can keep pushing the limits.