World Cup: Germany & Netherlands Out On Pens

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1:06Discover the V-Series lineup at cadillac.com. The Football Daily Podcast at the People World Cup 2026 with Rick Edwards and Lloyd Griffith. Hello, you're listening to the Football Daily with me, Rick Edwards, and me, Lloyd Griffith. Good day of football today. Lots to talk about. The scores. Germany have been knocked out after being beaten by Paraguay. 4-3 on penalties. Terrible penalties. We'll talk about those with Raphael Honigstein shortly. Brazila threw after a last-minute winner from Gabriel Martin. They did to beat Japan 2-1. And Morocco threw after beating the Netherlands on penalties.

1:44Honestly, all I really want to talk about is Cody Gakpo. Because two days ago, we know he revealed that his partner had lost their baby during pregnancy. And he decided to play. And then he scored that goal. And he just dropped to his knees. And all of his teammates and the whole squad came out. and it was just genuinely emotional. And we were both sat on the sofa and you had to go outside to have a little cry and I had to sit on the sofa to have a little cry. And that's literally how we watched that. And I think it's one of those situations where so many people would have been through what that family have gone through.

2:21And I know sometimes people think, oh, footballers, they're very different, but they're still human. They still go through the same thing as everyone else. And I think that would have, a lot of people go, oh, they're footballers. they're paid however much they are they should just get on with it there have been so many people that would have been in that situation that would have had to have gone to work the next day do I mean don't have the um the luxury of having a lot of money the bank and have to go to work whether it's them or whether it's their partner and you saw Cody Gakbo when the news came out that he wasn't returning I think it probably would have raised a few eyebrows but that decision was made by him and his family and that is absolutely their decision what I did love is all the players crowding around him like almost like protecting him going let him have his cry let him have his moment and it was a beautiful moment and you just saw what it meant to his players because like his teammates that would have affected them as well.

3:09But they'd all be devastated for him. Of course you know there'd have been times when he'd have told them all the exciting news however many weeks or months ago and then they'd have had to you know be there for him is it a World Cup away from his family it would have resonated with so many people watching at home it's also nice to have a little cry during football. It is nice it's good for us. Also it's just a useful reminder that you know We all love football, but it's not that important. With that in mind, let's spend the next 35 minutes talking about the football. Let's do it. Actor, comedian, writer and Wrexham AFC director, Humphrey Carswell.

3:41Hello, Humphrey. Hi, guys. Thanks for coming along, mate. It's such a pleasure. It's been nice to have you guys in my manor. It's been a busy day for you today. It's been quite a busy day. What have you been up to? I moved house. Okay. I moved house today. How have you got out now? I'm going, well, because my wife, bless her, was just like, just go. Get out of here. I'll sort this out. Yeah, yeah. I just left her in a sea of boxes. It's sort of weird. Because the only thing, what's weird about it is we moved, this is the second time we've moved in the space of a year and a half, because we moved into this house, then moved out of it to renovate it, and then moved back in again.

4:17And we didn't even unpack all the boxes from the first time we moved. So now some boxes are coming in, and you're like, what's this? What is this thing? It's just a long, many mysteries. But you'll be going back to help her tonight after this, though? No, no. After this, I'm flying to Atlanta, Georgia, to go and enjoy some more red-hot World Cup action, baby. Basically, you spend half your time here, half your time in America? Yeah, there and thereabouts. Weirdly, I've been in the UK for about 14 months before coming back a couple of weeks ago. But yes, I do about half a year here, half a year in the UK.

4:46Are you excited the World Cup is here in the USA? I'm beyond jazzed. Yeah, I mean, I'm so excited. Beyond jazzed? beyond jazz goodness me well what happened I lifted all those boxes and I did something to my back and then I just got super jazzed I just jazzed myself decent toss for your autobiography yeah and no I'm really excited because it's I've lived here for 13 years and it's been really exciting seeing the way football has grown and grown and people got more and more interested and more excited about it and I think this World Cup is going to be a really huge like watershed moment for people and especially the way the US started and smashed Paraguay and the way they did and I think if they'd drawn 1-1 or they'd lost or something I think this could have been a bit of a damp squib World Cup, dare I say.

5:28And I think it's really exploded because the US is doing well. People here are excited about it. They're enjoying all the videos of Scottish people turning up in Boston. Of course they are. And Algerians in Kansas or whatever it is. And it's great. I'm really enjoying it. Why do you think football has grown so much, especially in the time that you've been here and seen it? A huge thing, and I'm not just saying this because I occasionally work for them, but NBC over here their coverage of the Premier League is so good. It's so, so good. Like Fox has always been the home of soccer in the US. And sorry, Fox.

6:01They've always rolled out Alexi Lalas. Finds him quite hard to watch. I think someone's going to roll him out. Yeah, some stage. And, you know, the power of the internet. Everyone can see everything. Every clip is available almost instantaneously here. That's the other thing, you know, back at home, you know, on Twitter, whatever, the rights restrictions and things as such that it's, you know, you've often got to wait for a match of the day. and that's a tradition we love so much. But here they're very used to like, I want to see the thing happen almost in real time. It does seem that everyone in LA does have a Premier League team.

6:31Like you'll see someone walking down the street with, I don't know. It's mainly Spurs fans. Well, there's a lot of Spurs fans. A lot of Spurs fans. Quite a lot of Chelsea. That have come here because they can be out Spurs fans. We can't really do that at home. It's quite difficult to walk down the streets of London in a Spurs shirt these days. I would say so. Last World Cup, Wrexham were non-league. yeah this World Cup in the championship and I've got two players representing their country at the World Cup yes that feels like a pretty good marker of progress it's huge and Wales were very close to qualifying as well which would have given us another like three or four which would have been amazing yeah it's nuts that is another really nice yardstick of how like the journey we've been on and yeah Dom Hyam who played for Scotland unfortunately didn't get on during the World Cup maybe if he'd played that last game Maybe they would have gone through.

7:22That's all I'm saying. Spoiler. They wouldn't. They still would have been playing Brazil. And then, yeah, Libby Kakachi, who's our left back, plays for New Zealand. He played all three games. I got to go see him play against Iran, which is very cool. And it's quite mad because me and my friends and Rob Beckett went to the race course to see Rex and Vigrimsby in that thrilling 5-4 game in the conference. and Max Crocombe, the Grimm's town goalkeeper, playing a goal for New Zealand. And it's just, it's like these little fairy tales are going, they're going to play for their nation one day at a World Cup.

8:00It's so cool. I mean, everyone's got so excited about Vizinha and his mum and that whole story. And that is a great story. But there are hundreds of those happening kind of all across the World Cup all the time, which is a real joy. And it's very cool for us that we got a little connection to it that way. Have you managed to get too many games over here? I have, yeah. I went to US Paraguay. I went to Iran versus New Zealand. I went to Germany versus Ecuador. That was a good game. That was a banger. Yeah, it was so good. It was so good. And then I'm going to England DR Congo next week. Dr Congo.

8:33Dr Congo. On this show, it's Dr Congo. I see. Yes. Yeah, yeah. Well, the doctor will be in and I will be seeing him. I like this. Jazzed up. The doctor's in. Have you been doing any scouting? so weirdly my role at Rexon these days I work for the basically our foundation which is our kind of charitable arm but I'm still on the transfer committee as a sort of hangover from the days of yore is that the kind of thing where you go don't tell him do not tell him 100 % I'm just I still get sort of emailed like take a look at this lad and I'm like he's tall that's the sort of thing that's as sophisticated as my analysis gets I mean on that basis sign yourself yeah yeah exactly i'm like um well just another nice tall fellow to hang around with my neck hurts from looking down the whole time no phil phil loves phil parkinson our manager has always loved he likes a bit of sort of he likes everyone to chime in a bit he likes getting everyone's opinion is that sort of classic you'd always hear those stories about sort of you know bill shankley asking the tea lady like what she thought of this you know of ianst john or whatever it is and um uh yeah phil has that thinking like oh humphrey what do you think of this guy and i'm He's like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

9:43Oh, yeah. Just lots of like really empty platitudes about them. It's like, yeah, he's a tricky, tricky lad from what I've seen. Looks like, you know, he's got a trick in him, doesn't he? He's got a trick in him. Just like very nonspecific. I would be beyond jazzed if we signed this guy. Yeah, exactly. There's a lot of that chat. Can you not just send him an email going, I've just been to this game and I really like this person. Should we just get him in? Yeah, so I texted Phil about two years ago about Johan Manzambi in Switzerland being like, I've just seen this guy. He's playing an under-21s game that's on telly here in the States.

10:17He's absolutely tearing them to shreds. And he was like, yeah, yeah, he's okay. I mean, he's probably worth about 25 million quid. It's basically like me being like, hey, have you heard of this guy called Messi? Yeah. I think he's got something. Yeah, it was like the most behind-the-curve piece of scouting of all time ever. they're like yeah I think he's just gone from Udinese for sort of 17 million pounds oh okay are Wrexham coming out to the US anytime because I know they do like to do little pre-season tours we love to come to America yes um yeah we are we're here we're here later in uh in July and August we're going to Tampa yeah where we're playing Leeds and then um we're playing Liverpool at Yankee Stadium in New York what have you you've surely had some involvement in that as also a Liverpool fan gonna wear a Liverpool shirt because you should yeah I you should half and half I do like what get a half and half shirt I know what you meant yeah yeah what do you mean you know what I meant in my in my off hours in my own personal time I do take a passing interest in Liverpool Football Club as you can tell from my thick Toxteth accent yeah same yeah yeah a bootle Toxteth boys here both with purple wheelie bins yeah yeah yeah bit of a niche reference that that's specific but people from Liverpool even Lizzie didn't enjoy that You know what I meant?

11:36Literally directed at you. Nothing on her face, though. Well, if you've got a purple wheelie, it means you're a scouser. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Yes, and then let's not forget that, of course, we're going to be in Philadelphia playing Sunderland as well. If you'd have said 15 years ago, Wrexham are going to be playing Sunderland in Philadelphia, people go, are you okay? Have you been... Wear a hat if you're going to sit outside. I think you need to go and see Dr. Congo. Is the doctor in? Can he prescribe you something? Well, let's talk about what was the shock of the day. Germany knocked out after being beaten on penalties by Paraguay.

12:13Let's bring in German football journalist Raphael Honigstein. Raphael, I mean, Germany have just become just very poor. I thought you might say the New England. Excuse me. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Look, I understand you're a bit bitter. It was terrible. It was really terrible. And I think my mood has not recovered yet. you can lose many ways some of them legitimately some less so but to not beat Paraguay over the course of 120 minutes to then miss three penalties when Paraguay give you a lifeline by missing their last two regular penalties and bring you back into the fold is unforgivable and then if you combine that with a whole tournament and look at the three games preceding that it becomes yet another fiasco.

13:05Not quite as bad as the two previous World Cups where we didn't even get out of the group stage, but not much better either. What's the sentiment back at home? Are they angry? I presume they're very, very angry. Who are they blaming? Why are they angry? There's plenty of blame going around. Some of them are pointing at the players. Some players now have a sad history of failing at big tournaments, the likes of Goretzka and Kimmich, Leroy Sane. Basically, the entire post-2014 World Cup generation has not delivered. But of course, the buck also stops with Julian Nagelsmann. Jürgen Klopp has been the shadow German national manager throughout this tournament in the same stadium as Germany and Nagelsmann for all the games.

13:51He was asked the question today. He said it's not the right time to think about it, not the right time to talk about it, But you know, and it's already happened, that everyone is screaming for him to come in and rescue Germany as the big white teeth saviour of rock and roll, I was going to say, but of German football. I mean, it's very hard to see Nagelsmann surviving this, isn't it? I think it's very difficult. He got the benefit of the doubt when Germany got knocked out in the Euros against Spain. You remember the penalty incident with Kukorea. Spain went on to win the tournament. So it made it more respectable.

14:32And Germany played well. The players did enough to reconcile the supporters and the national team. There was a sense of momentum, a sense of optimism. All of that was lost in the Nations League, which was played in Germany, where Germany lost both their games. And then the qualifying was a bit uneven. And then Nagelsmann was never able to create that kind of positivity that we had during the Euros. He made some strange decisions. He communicated them in a very strange way. He even had to apologize to Dennis Under for talking him down publicly and saying he would be too tired to score a goal in a 70 minutes if he was starting.

15:13But then he found himself constantly rowing back some decisions when he had to change them, like bringing back Manuel Neuer. Today, Kimmich was back in midfield for the second half of the game. So I would say, summing it up, a kind of a lack of clarity and maybe also a lack of maturity. I think you need a certain sense of seniority and calmness in this job. And Nagelsmann at times showed his age and, dare I say, his inexperience. There's also just a lack of aura, I think. Like it used to be that teams would come up against Germany and think, oh, they're going to beat us. And I'm not sure teams think that anymore.

15:53No, we've become a bit of a soft spot on a team that can be bullied at times. We are perhaps a little bit too intricate, a bit too pretty. All these accusations were also leveled at Joachim Löw's Germany, we have to remember, before they went on to win it. And then the narrative completely flipped. And some of the things that we're hearing now about the players being a little bit spoiled or making too much money or not wanting it enough. All these things were said about the Schweinsteiger, Lham, Kedira, Boateng generation before they won it. And then suddenly there were these huge characters and leaders by virtue of winning.

16:31So this is a bit, I think, reactionary and sort of bit outcome bias led this way of looking at it. But there is no doubt that we have some structural issues. We are not producing any wingers in an age where wingers are the most important players on the pitch. We're not producing a lot of number nines. We're not producing any fullbacks, which are arguably the second most position now on the pitch. So all in all, when you consider that national team football is about maximizing your strengths and minimizing your inevitable problems, because you see at this tournament, every single team has problems of some sort.

17:12And those teams who can negate these issues best, they thrive. and Germany at times looked to add to their own woes and undermine their own ability, I felt, in the last few years. And that's why we are deservedly out of the World Cup. Rafa, I was lucky enough to go to the Ecuador game in New York last week and I was struck by the kind of the paucity of options coming off the bench for Germany. You know, when those changes were coming in and you had kind of Stille and Bayer and people coming on, they're not, you know, when you compare that to the likes of France, or even, dare I say, England, when you're going to those kind of first choice changes off the bench and you have players that are top level Champions League players in Barcola and Douay and Nonny Medueke for England or whoever it may be.

18:01Why do you think Germany has quite a thin squad? Or do you agree that it has quite a thin squad? That might be a very uninformed opinion about the quality of those players. No, we certainly lack in some positions. and the injury of Nico Schlotterbeck made our backline even poorer. And the reason that Joshua Kimmich was playing right back is that Nagelsmann was of the opinion that we don't have a proper flying attacking right back in the squad. I would maybe be less harsh on the substitutes. Maxi Bayer is a Champions League player at Dortmund. Stille is a Champions League player at Stuttgart who had an offer for Man United last year.

18:40I think these are good players. the problem is when you throw them in a team that is already a little bit dysfunctional, and then you add players who have never played together. Some of them have never played these positions before, like Malik Chau suddenly plays a right back, which maybe he's had a couple of games for Newcastle, but not very often, certainly not for Germany. Then it becomes a bit of a mishmash. Zutoyische Zeitung, my former paper, had a very nice analogy. They said Nagelsmann is like a really sort of talented barkeeper who has the talent to come up with some really interesting concoctions, but sometimes he just throws everything in and it's just really not something you can down without feeling sick.

19:21And that was sort of the metaphor for the Ecuador game. What were they like against Ecuador? And what was the vibe in the stadium? Well, I have to say, my view, having not followed the rest of their tournament that closely, was that, oh, is this a case of this is a team that's already qualified and therefore they're kind of taking their foot off the gas a little bit i had thought going in that maybe the lineup would be you'd see less of a strong starting lineup and then when you saw that with with what felt like a lot of the first choice players playing in those positions like oh okay they're going for it here but then they just they just felt very passive and very kind of again i think because of the aura of germany that you talked about rick i was like ah i see what this is a rope-a-dope they're allowing ecuador to bully them to press them really hard to take the ball off them and then you know the the ecuadorian players will wilt in the hot new jersey sun and the germans will roll over them and it kind of it didn't happen and it felt it felt like it was only going to end one way and and you know lo and behold it did i i could understand nagelsmann's idea for the game he said we've been criticized in brackets rightly probably bracket closed for not having a team that has a rhythm that has a sort of fixed starting 11 and a sense of fluidity and cohesion because we've changed a lot so let's keep things going and use this game for the team to find that rhythm and to get to know each other better but of course when you have already qualified and as a player you don't want to get injured you want to pick up yellow cards and the other team are playing for their lives to stay in this tournaments.

21:03Then inevitably, the players came out and admitted that there was something a little bit missing. And then when Nagelsmann followed his plan, which was to give some of the fringe players game time in the second half, he did it at the point where Germany were already losing control of the game. And then the loss of control was complete through the very random additions, if you will. And it also wasn't quite logical because he afterwards said, well, I wanted to give some players game time almost like you know a little bit of a present or a little bit of a consolation prize but at the same time he did not agree with the players who said that Ecuador wanted it more so he was sort of contradicting himself because if the game had gone in a different way if it had been more really more important he said well we wouldn't have made these changes so you can't really have a both your way so I think this is another albeit a small example of the messaging not being quite as clear and straightforward as it should be, in my view, in a tournament of this magnitude.

22:05Let's talk about the penalty shootout then. I was already... Do we have to? Yes, we do. I was already to say that's some of the worst penalties I've seen, but then I've just watched the Netherlands-Morocco. So it's actually not the worst penalty shootout I've seen today. But it was not good, though. It was poor. And you've never lost a penalty shootout in a World Cup before. Welcome to the club. The last time we lost a penalty shootout, somebody called Panenka scored a Panenka. Funnily enough, 1976. But yeah, it's bad. I mean, you can miss a penalty, but to miss three in the first six and then to miss the last one when the opposition have missed two already to give you a chance to again take the initiative.

22:54Jonathan Tarr I think had even never taken a penalty in his professional career or maybe won before at least in any way he was not your natural sixth place taker so I don't know how that decision was made but yeah sad also sad ending for Manu's Neuer national team career again unless he comes out of retirement a second time then maybe we can talk about him again at the Euros I'm not sure he's going to have the appetite after this tournament to be quite honest. On Paraguay, because it's tempting to just talk about Germany being poor, but big credit to Paraguay because you look at how their tournament started, really well beaten by the USA 4-1 and to get out of the group stage and then go on and beat Germany and show that kind of resilience in a way that I don't think anyone expected.

23:49It's a huge amount of credit. Yeah, of course. I think there's always something quite admirable and likable about a team that has a clear game plan and a clear identity and plays it with a sense of passion and verve and commitment and devotion. And you just see what they're trying to do. A team like Germany should still beat them. But if you have one of those days where you can upset the odds and maybe they play this game 10 times, Paraguay will win maybe once or twice, but this was the occasion, then you have to take your hat off them to them. And they were wonderful on their own terms and they absolutely maximized their potential.

24:28They took full advantage of slack defending to score a great goal to take the lead and it took Germany a long time to equalize. And then, of course, they had that one goal, we should mention briefly, this allowed, which was a surprise, I think. And on another day, we'll be sitting here and saying, Germany are not very good, but at least we're through and then it's a new game against France. But I think, and Jurgen Klopp made the same point, this might be a blessing in disguise in the sense that France wouldn't have given us, would have given us such a huge hiding that it would have been even more painful to get knocked out on the 4th of July by then.

25:04The scenes in Paraguay are absolutely lovely. just everyone over the moon crying celebrating um the president of paraguay tweeted earlier on he said santiago pena which is i think how you pronounce his name um he's announced that they'll have a public holiday tomorrow uh then he said damn it as if it almost feels like he's had a couple of beers announced a public holiday and then he's gone oh there's actually quite a lot of admin around this and actually it's gonna be a nightmare like just doctors not turning up tomorrow like what's what's gonna happen so i think i think paraguay are going to be very hung over tomorrow, but also just not sure whether they are at work or not.

25:39I'm just checking the time here, Humphrey, and if you're going to get this plane, you're going to need to go. Then go, I will. Godspeed. Thank you. It's a pleasure.

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27:01There's this song. When it gets to a bit, the whole place goes. So good, so good, so good. You've got to do the arm bit too. So funny. I love that bit. We know that feeling. the FIFA World Cup 2026 on five live and BBC sounds the football daily podcasts at the FIFA World Cup 2026 with Rick Edwards and Lloyd Griffith listen on BBC sounds let's talk about Netherlands Morocco then the game has just finished as we as we were recording it was the game that was touted as the kind of stand mainly by me as the standout tie of this round and I think it sort of lived up to it I thought Morocco were pretty good I'm not sure the Netherlands deserved their lead particularly but then it looked like they were going to grind out the win then Morocco scored that equaliser extra time was sort of you know What extra time is always like, really?

28:11And then the penalties were diabolical again. And I sort of think, I get there's a huge amount of pressure, but these players must practice penalties. Yeah, I'm sure they do. And I'm sure in training, the penalties were pitch perfect. But the pressure comes in and the goalkeeper maybe does something different that you expect him to do and you're off your game and then you miss or you hit the post or you hit the bar. I mean, as a German, that was the only thing that sort of made my evening slightly more enjoyable, to see the Dutch get knocked out on penalties. And they're sort of Paraguay in disguise because they played for the draw, or at least they played to score on counterattacks.