World Cup: Kane Brace Rescues England – 5 Live Reaction

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1:07The V-Series line-up at Cadillac.com.

1:29And they're through to the round of 16, and Harry Kane absolutely the center of attention. No huge celebration here, just one clenched fist in the air from Harry Kane, who scored his fourth and fifth goals at this World Cup. And Duke Battingham is the first man across to him. Now the rest of his teammates join him as well. And Harry Kane has dug England out of trouble here in Atlanta, and England have won it 2-1, and England will go to Mexico City at the weekend to play the co-hosts Mexico. Paul Robinson, what a match. Four. We don't do it easy, do we? I'm tired, John. That was a tough watch. And for about an hour of that game, we didn't think we were going to progress through this tournament.

2:16England, once again, they've showed that they find it very difficult to play against the team that sit deep and try and break up the game and make it hard for them. but all the superlatives that you use for Harry Kane, you can't get tired of saying them. He's dug England out of a hole today because it was not a convincing performance, and they looked for a long, long time that they were heading home from the tournament, but all of a sudden the changes that Thomas Tuchel made, you've got to give him credit because he changed the wide players. Anthony Gordon came on, Saka came on, Eze came on in the hydration break, and that changed England and it changed the way that they played.

2:48They played on the front foot and they were a lot more direct. and then Harry Kane, he just pops up in the right places at the right time. He is England's leader, and we cannot be without him. So much in this match to talk about. Brian Cepenga with that early goal that caught out Jordan Pickford in his near post. Wisser should have scored, how he didn't, I don't know, he hit the post. The goalkeeper with the saves that he made, and passing. Harry Kane adamantly should have had a penalty. DR Congo leading for 68 minutes of this match before Harry Kane headed in the first in the 75th minute. And then what a goal, you need to see that on BBC TV later to make it 2-1.

3:28And Harry Kane is continuing to be surrounded by his teammates. He's an absolute football history man now with his 84 goals for England. Kane with his 13 goals for England at a World Cup. He's now scored more goals at a World Cup than Pelé, and he's scored as many international goals as Ferenc Puskas. That's where he is. But that's it. England through, through the round of 32, against super opponents, DR Congo, who absolutely, as we say, will go out with their heads held very high. Last 16 next. I'm not sure I can do that again. England two, DR Congo one. John Murray, Paul Robinson, thank you very much John is going to go off and get all the reaction from the England manager and from the England players to that narrow victory over DR Congo Paul Robinson is going to stay with us we also have former England captain Steph Halton with us and Steph, a country that have ambitions of winning this tournament Harry Kane has made sure that England are through by the skin of their teeth in a round that hasn't existed in previous World Cups Yeah, I mean, God, we've got a lot to thank him for, Kelly, especially in that second half.

4:45I think if there was anyone that was going to lead England to victory, it was always going to be Harry Kane. Of course, in the game, he's not really in the game as much as he probably would like to. But when that moment comes, there's only one person that can do it, especially that second goal. He made that all himself. And I think second half was more of an England performance that we expected. Steph, he's right in the middle of a huddle of England players at the moment, giving them a pep talk after that victory. He's scored as many World Cup goals as Pelly, as we've been hearing. Since the 2018 World Cup, only Mbappe scored more doubles at the World Cup than Harry Kane.

5:21Mbappe's got six and Kane's got three, but still it's impressive from Harry Kane. And it's always crucial goals, more or less, that he manages to get for England. You cannot overstate his importance to this England side, who overall, over the 90-odd minutes, were toiling against Dior Congo? Yeah, I think we were all sitting in here worried about what would potentially happen. But I think, Kelly, all the stats that you've just read out about Harry Kane, I think there was a question to Tuchel about over-reliance on certain players. But when you have someone like Harry Kane, why not rely on him? Because in their moments, he produces.

6:00And I think if we can give him more of the ball, we can find him up in spaces where he can really hurt defences. We have a great chance, but there's still a lot, lot of work to do. Paul, just reflecting on that performance by England, there is the huge relief for England supporters that they are through to the last 16 of this tournament, having trailed for so long in the game and been rescued by Harry Kane. But there will still be a lot of questions that remain. Absolutely, there will be a lot of questions that remain. but just let me paint a quick picture for you here the England players to a man with all the staff they stood arm in arm inside the 18 yard box staring at this wall of England supporters away to my left hand side that I described like the yellow wall at Borussia Dortmund and the England players have done this after every game and they've stood there and they've been in front of the supporters but now they're all arm in arm singing jointly to Oasis Wonderwall it's a really good scene here relief from the England supporters but also celebration but as you say there's still a huge amount of questions the relationship that we spoke about about the fullbacks the wide players so many more questions have come out of this game than answers but they've got the result and they progress in the tournament it's steph do you think england i mean i know that the first game against croatia feels like a bit of an outlier now but do you feel that england are improving in some parts of the game yes kelly but i feel as though i don't know what paul thinks but in terms of defensively i haven't seen that much improvement over the last few games I think Croatia yeah in terms of a team that wanted to come out and attack I think that really suits us but against Mexico this probably could be the same formation that we play against and we can't afford to go 1-0 down again so from an attacking perspective we're creating a lot more chance than we did in the first three games but from a defensive point of view I think we've still got things to iron out.

7:50Yeah but because after that Croatia game Paul there was lots of talk about how this was a brand new era for England, that Thomas Tuchel was bringing this brave new world to English football. It hasn't been the case in the game since then, but do you feel like, Steph, that there has been improvement? Yeah, I mean, look, I think we've got our best-ever goal scorer scoring, which is fantastic. I think Saka and Gordon made a real big difference today. I think there's always been talk about who starts, Rashford or Gordon, but I think Rashford is a bit more of an impact player and I thought Eze was brilliant when he came on.

8:28I think he really settled the team down. I think at times we looked a bit anxious, we looked a bit rushed and to bring someone on of his quality, to just sit in the middle of that midfield and really connect the play, I think it really kind of settled us as a team. We stopped running around a bit and we just started to stick to our positions. So from an improvement point of view, I think our attack and play has definitely improved. And this is just par for England, Paul. This is where they would expect to be at this stage of the tournament. But are the performances improving? Are the players clicking, even while there are still areas for improvement?

9:04If the Croatia game was the game prior to this game, I'd say we were growing into the tournament. But after the Croatia game, when we all got excited thinking that England were going to win the World Cup, then we had those two, for want of a better phrase, clunky performances against Panama and Ghana. And then today, once again, we've proved that we find it very difficult to play against the team with the tactics that the previous three sides we've played have set up against. And without Harry Kane today, we may not have got through to the round of 16. But actually, from an England point of view now, you obviously can't control who your opponents are and how they play.

9:35You would hope that we get teams that want to come and play, that want to come and play against us rather than sitting deep. That early goal for DR Congo today played perfectly into their hands and it allowed them to play to their game plan. and it hurt England, but unlike other times, unlike the Ghana game, the Panama game and today, we found a way. It wasn't pretty, but we got the job done. Yeah, but Paul, they'd be mad to come and try and play against England, wouldn't they? What the teams that are going to win, or the team that's going to win this tournament can do is presumably do both. You know, be able to sit in and make life difficult for England, but also have that attacking prowess to be able to take advantage of the many, many gaps that are exposed.

10:17It's almost a blueprint now, isn't it? How to play against England. The last two group stages, the last two group games showed that. And then again today, so Mexico, in Mexico, they will look at those three games and say, OK, if we sit low defensively and solid, the manager may select a side that they have quick players on the counter-attack and play against that. But England, they're going to come up against it. And like we said, that game today, it wasn't a great, I mean, it was a great watch, but from an England point of view, it actually wasn't, it was a tough watch at times and the answers that they're looking for the creativity in the final third it came in the end because of Harry Kane and they are going to come up against that and they have to keep finding those answers Rory Smith, football correspondent for the Observer joins us now Rory, what do you think, is that the game you expected?

11:01I think it's the approach from Congo I expected, I wasn't sure I expected him to score in the ninth minute, that kind of was a bit of a surprise to be honest I think, yeah, Gabriel Zafuani said who's one of the assistant managers for Congo and a former Leighton Orient legend Kelly said that no such thing as former in that sentence that's true yeah he's a Leighton Orient legend but as Paul says he said that they'd kind of seen how Ghana played England in particular and he felt that Congo were better going forward than Ghana which I think they probably proved they are to be honest they created obviously the goal the chance for Wiesel although I think that might have been offside and a couple of other little moments it was how I expected the pattern of the game to be but I didn't I didn't think England would run it quite that fine why do you think it was that that close from england what do you think they were they were lacking in that performance uh a little a bit of creativity a bit of ingenuity but to be honest i think it was partly that conroe unsettled them by i mean the intensity that conroe played with was was incredible the like enthusiasm for defying england was amazing it was a really heroic performance from conroe and the other thing is the um the winners the england's fullbacks look like they'd never seen anyone dribble at them.

12:11They looked really, really kind of nervy as soon as anybody picked up the ball and ran at them. And, you know, you've got a player who scores, Sepenja, plays for Castellón in the Spanish second division. You know, they're not... I think sometimes we think of these teams as being minnows as they might have been in 1974, and they're not. You know, this is... It's a condo team with, what, three Premier League players, a load of players who play in Ligue 1. You know, they are... I'm not pretending they're a giant of world football, but they're elite players by any real kind of broad definition of the word.

12:40And I think once they had that lead, they were well-organised enough, they were disciplined enough, and they were kind of intense enough just to really knock England out of their rhythm. And I suppose the thing is that England did lack a bit of creativity and ingenuity. They stuck at it. I thought they didn't panic. There was a point where I thought they might panic as they did against Iceland 10 years ago. But I suppose the other thing is that they did create a load of chances. You know, the three saves from Mampassi in the first half were extraordinary. and there were another two in the second half, so they did create chances.

13:11They just had to keep grinding away. It was a grind. I liked Paul's word, clunky. I think that was the right term. The other thing I was talking to Paul and to Steph about, mainly at half-time, but I suppose you could apply it to the second half as well, was the importance of the hydration slash ad breaks in this game for England because it gave Thomas Tuchel an opportunity to go out and really, one, sort of rouse his players, but also to presumably give them pointers and to give them that encouragement to get forward. Yeah, absolutely. Their two best spells of the game were directly after the end of the first inning and directly after the end of the third inning.

13:52That was, I think, I'm going for innings rather than quarters. I think the joke's better. But the other thing is that the secret shame of this World Cup, Kelly, the secret shame is that everyone boos the hydration break and then the music goes on and the cameras go on and people have a nice time and they also they go out for a drink and i think i mean i don't like them it does break up the rhythm of the game i'm not sure it breaks it up quite as much as everyone's saying it does there are there an okay experience for fans who are inside the ground i mean and and to be fair fans inside the ground get very little in terms of the so-called improvements to the game so fair play to them but it doesn't really add to the viewing experience and it certainly doesn't seem to be something that allows teams like I think France particularly were concerned about this the so-called bigger teams and we'll maybe see it come into effect in the later stages of the of the competition where where the momentum is halted for teams that are sort of building up ahead of steam but if England are the so-called bigger team in this game it worked to their advantage yeah I mean I think I think you can spin it both ways I mean I would say as well Kelly I agree completely about the fans watching at home as a man in my 40s I'm generally quite pro reason the occasions where and go to the toilet that that is a useful thing over the course of a 90 minute match the no i think it no one likes them but it is they're not i don't think they're quite the evil that's been presented and they do have benefits in that they they absolutely stop the momentum of the game which tends to benefit one team and disadvantage the other but it depends how you want to look at it doesn't it like someone is is working for someone there and england did did 100 percent get the benefit today it gave to the chance to change it i think his substitutions were brave as well.

15:28I'm not sure what it would have looked like if it had gone too much the time, that would have been a weird team, but... I think you've got to give him so much credit. I really do. I think you've got to give Thomas Tuchel so much credit for his in-game management. I think so often as an England side, even go back to when I played, we're guilty of defending our weaknesses rather than playing to strengths, and actually in the Croatia game when we're one goal up with that last hydration break that we had, he made changes that allowed England to go on and score that fourth goal and win the game, rather than trying to sit deep and defend, and actually the changes that he made today, he made a slight formation change to start with, but then in the last break he brought Ezer on, he took off Jed Spence, the right back almost went to three at the back Declan Rice had to drop in there the positivity of Thomas Tuchel is something that impresses me Go on, Tony He rolled the dice, and I suppose you could say that's a measure of how extreme the situation was, you know they were 15 minutes from going out to DR Congo which would have been up there with Iceland I think, as a kind of day of shame or whatever but he did he went he went fully for it and you could see after the um after the equalizer as conger made substitutions that tuchel was going absolutely mad at the fourth official to try and get the game rolling again he wanted to build on that momentum um steph thoughts on thomas tuchel's substitutions and maybe that's the sort of um attacking mentality that he was supposed to bring and maybe we're not able to see it so much on the pitch at the moment because of how teams have been setting up against England.

16:54But in terms of his substitutions, that's where we're seeing the intent from him. Yeah, without a doubt. And I think I said just previously that Eze, Gordon, Saka, they brought a bit of a different dimension, a little bit more of an end product into what they were doing. And we just looked as though we got into our rhythm a little bit better with them three coming on. And I think Eze, especially when you're in the middle of the park, you look at the likes of Anderson, Rice, Bellingham, they love to run, they love to get around and sometimes you need someone just to be able to stand still and just get really control of the game and even putting Rice to right back I think, of course, we've spoke so much about the right back situation but he has the qualities to play there and considering he's probably carrying a bit of a knock over this tournament it was the right decision to take him out of the middle of the park and put a pair of fresh legs on and he can provide a different point of attack with the likes of Saka and Ezi on that right hand side So I'm impressed because I think the guys have said at some point you've got to kind of roll the dice and take a chance.

17:55But you're taking a chance with very, very good players that have played at the highest level. And one of those players who played the full 90 minutes, who started for England, who is a record breaker for England, who got them out of trouble against DR Congo with the two goals that turn things around for England. Harry Kane is with Kelly Summers. Well Harry, you've had some big moments in an England shirt, but you've just kept them in the World Cup. How on earth does that feel? Yeah, it feels amazing to be honest. Yeah, what a crazy game obviously. First and foremost, playing against a tough team, an organized team.

18:29Going behind, but kind of after that first hydration break, I thought we we upped the level, we looked good. I mean their keeper made some unbelievable saves in that first half. And it was just about pounding the rock, keep pounding the rock and our moments will come. We spoke about people having hero moments. It could be anyone in the team. Whether it's me, a save from pickers, a block from the defenders, whoever it is, we have hero moments. And, yeah, for me, it was the day. Your first goal kept England alive, of course, but your second one, that celebration, was 80-odd minutes of frustration coming out?

18:59Yeah, I think so. I think you have to stay patient in these games. The last couple games were very similar. And, obviously, when you get to knock out football, the pressure is higher, the risk is higher. but we spoke all week just about being ourselves. And from an attacking point of view, it was probably our best game of the tournament so far. Obviously, still things to work on for sure, but ultimately, these rounds are just about getting through. I think the boss spoke about it before the game. This one and the next one are two difficult games for different reasons. The next one, obviously, away in Mexico against Mexico, but we're in the part of the tournament where you have to grind wins out, and that's what we've done today.

19:33Special scenes at the end with the fans. They're still singing now, but we also saw you go into a huddle. What did you say to the rest of the squad? Just told the boys to enjoy it. You know, sometimes as an England player, when you go through tough games like this and games that you're expected to win, you don't really celebrate how you should. You know, we're the same as every other nation. We're through, so enjoy it. You know, we're in a World Cup where fighting for for every moment, every little margin. So I want the boys to enjoy it, enjoy it with the fans like we did. And then we go get in four days.

20:02The way we England finish that game, then, that has to be something to kick on from, doesn't it? Yeah, for sure. We spoke even from the Croatia game, you know, the sub will make an impact. We've got wingers who are fresh, who are coming into the game and keeping the level even higher. And you saw that again today with B and Ant, just over 90 minutes, you know, we're tough to handle. So, yeah, all the managers please for everyone involved and hopefully we can keep it going. Well done today, Harry. Thank you. That was Harry Kane and he knows. And Paul, you're inside the stadium in Atlanta. you can see and hear how those England fans are celebrating that victory.

20:40But Harry Kay knows, he said it in the interview, that this was a victory that they had to grind out. And there has been, maybe not a criticism, but questions asked about whether or not England are over-reliant on him. But the other thing that he said, look, if it's not me, it's Jordan Pickford making saves at the other end. And I suppose it's a question that fits quite nicely with a goalkeeper, that if you've got someone who's playing that well, Does it matter if you're reliant on them? If you have a world-class goalkeeper who pulls off saves that keeps you in a game, nobody really talks about it that much.

21:12But if you've got a striker who's scoring all the important goals for you, people go, well, what happens if he gets injured? It is about him. Regardless of what he says, it's all about him. He's dug his goalkeeper out of a hole as well today because Jordan Pickford should have done better with a goal that he conceded down at his near post early on in the game. And Jordan Pickford is outstanding. I think he's by far and away England's number one. but he'll be disappointed with himself the way that the first goal went in. I'm going to come back to you on that because Declan Rice is waiting to talk to John Murray.

21:41Yes, the England vice-captain, Declan Rice, who I must say, Declan, you're still red-faced. You look as though you've just gone through the mill. That's what happens when you're playing 30-degree heat, I suppose. Yeah, tough game, give it everything. And, yeah, obviously, the body's been through a lot in that match, so time to recover and go again. How are you? I'm fine, good as gold. Yeah, I'm good. What a match that was. I mean, talk about a dramatic World Cup match. That had a little bit of everything, didn't it? Yeah, it was... It's a knockout game, you know. They've got through the group in a tough group and it's never going to be easy.

22:21You can never underestimate opposition. As a neutral, as a player, because they have quality and they can hurt you on any given moment and that first 10 minutes they did. But other than that, I think we had so many chances. Their goalkeeper, credit to him, he had an absolute worldie and Harry Kane, inevitable, scoring them goals. So, in the end, I think it was a deserved win but probably made a bit more hard work of it than we should have done. But the main thing is, knockouts, we win and that's what we've done. Can you say anything that we've not heard before about the worth of Harry Kane to this England team?

22:57He's going to get chances, isn't he? If you give him a chance, it's a goal. I think personally, I've seen it too many times. It's just ridiculous the goals he scores and the way he scores them. His whole mentality around scoring is just 72 for the season now. It's just ridiculous. So credit to him. And the question now is, this is a little bit like two years ago, isn't it? This sort of experience, this sort of feeling that you had in Germany at the Euros. simply again can you build on this? Yeah, I think as the games go on even today I think again we thought they were playing a back five they changed to a back four, it was more open we had more attacks, more shots on goal yeah for sure as the games go on we're going to keep getting better so that's what we've got to keep doing Well done Declan, we'll see you in Mexico City and off he goes and I have to say Kelly he looks absolutely frazzled Well you could hear that in his voice John and Paul I'm interested in getting your thoughts on this because one you can kind of contrast it with the scenes that you've just seen with the England fans and their extreme celebrations inside the ground but also Declan Rice talking about how much playing in that 30 degree heat took out of him but this is an air conditioned stadium so it's worth picking up on that after we've heard from Elliot Anderson with John Yeah Elliot Anderson who I've just spoken to Declan Rice, Elliot, who looked as though he'd been dragged through a hedge backwards.

24:27You look as cool as can be, but what a match that must have been to be involved in. Yeah, it was. It was really good, really good fun. It was stressful. Fun? Yeah, it was, it was. We stuck together. I thought we played well. Obviously, the result, the half-time wasn't where we wanted, but I thought we were doing well. We just struggled to just get that goal. But no, look, we fully believed in each other and we stayed positive. And what's it like being on the field when you watch Harry Kane do that? I said to him before the tournament, the numbers that he's produced this season are almost superhuman.

25:04Yeah, it's crazy. It's special to play with him, to be honest, giving him the ball and just watching him go and do his stuff. When I hit the back of the net, the relief was huge. I remember talking to you at the Euros last summer, the under-21 Euros, so you've experienced that tournament. But for you now to be involved in this at senior level, and you'll well remember the experiences that you've had watching England, this sort of thing, even two years ago in Germany, now to be a part of it? Yeah, it's incredible. There's not much words for it, really. It's amazing. It's what I've worked to for all my career, and to be here on this stage, on this platform, is special.

25:47And the feeling of now going to Mexico City to play Mexico, I mean, that's something that you... I mean, I know it's a daunting prospect, but again, that's the kind of fixture that... If I said to you, growing up, that's what you're going to play in for England. Yeah, it's probably one of the best games of your career, I think. Mexico, Mexico City, you know. It'll be good, it'll be a huge test for us, and we'll get to work and hopefully come through it. Sorry for asking this, but I have to ask you, where are we up to with moving to Manchester City? I'm not too sure, you know. I've got one objective today, and that was to focus on the country and getting this country through the next round.

26:25And I've done it so I can now settle. Thanks for answering that question. Well done today, Elliot. Thank you. Yeah, Elliot Anderson was very much straddling those two positions at the moment, turning up for England at the World Cup, and then obviously with his club career with big changes. John Murray with the interviews there. Paul, just to come back to that point on Declan Rice, talking about playing in 30 degree heat and I know your position is up in the stands where you will be kind of exposed to the air conditioning at maybe a more forceful level and the conditions may be different on the pitch but odd to hear him describe it as playing in 30 degree heat in an air conditioned stadium Surprising, yeah I'm sat here in shorts and t-shirt and it's actually quite chilly and we did a couple of bits downstairs yesterday at pitch level and obviously without the crowd and the temperature is very different but we do get information and they assure us that the temperature is regulated at 20 degrees but when it actually fills up with people it goes up to 22 or 23 degrees but it's actually very controlled and to hear him say that he obviously felt the heat of the game and he felt the heat of the battle and I think that's obviously an instant reaction John's got him right in the mix zone there straight after the game which is an excellent thing to do and I think he's obviously describing the game in a very very different way to how we're obviously sat here watching it And the other thing that you get from that, Steph, is just how much it's taken out of.

27:48Certainly, I mean, Elliot Anderson, a little bit younger than Deckenweiss, but it certainly, as John described him, sounded a lot fresher after the end of that game. But some of those players, it looked like it had really rung a lot out of them. Yeah, and of course, Kelly, in terms of not only the game from a physical perspective, but mentally, I think when you're 1-0 down, you know how much it means to everybody back home, the fans in the stadium, the expectation of England is to go through to the next round. That sometimes can take a toll as a player because you look at the likes of Declan Rice, Harry Kane, really experienced players and they know how much it means to get through to the round of 16.

28:28And I think the season that Declan Rice has had, I think that's one of the first interviews I've heard where he sounds a little bit different and a bit downbeat. In comparison to, I think, a very short answer when John asked him about his injury, which normally I think it would be a little bit longer and I think it might just get to the point where you're just sick of answering them sorts of questions you want to focus on the football and he's probably not as happy with his own performance than he has been in previous ones so I think there's a lot of factors to take in when you're in part of a World Cup you've been away from home for a long time the pressure's there there's an expectation of England rightly so because of the players that we have and I think we've just got to try and reset as quick as possible look ahead towards Mexico and Mexico City because Declan described that as 30 degrees.

29:13It's going to be a lot harder when we play them in their home country. Yeah, exactly, and under those sort of intense conditions. And that's kind of the point, isn't it? You know, Rory, Declan Rice is talking there about playing in 30-degree heat in an air-conditioned stadium in Atlanta. They're off to the Azteca, which isn't just hot and humid and filled with a... Hostile is probably the wrong word, but a vociferous, largely Mexican crowd. and they're going to be doing that at extreme altitude as well. Yeah, I mean, I think hostile is probably the right word, Kelly, to be honest. Well, not hostile because they're going to be supportive of Mexico, I think.

29:50It will feel hostile to England. You know, I don't want to kind of calumny the Mexican people, but no, that'll be hostile and it should be hostile. It's the Azteca, it's Mexico City, it's a home World Cup. I don't know if you've seen the videos of what happened outside the Ecuadorian team hotel the night before the game yesterday. It will be fully hostile and they should take some earplugs. and I'm sure, to be honest, I'm sure they'll expect nothing less. But it is the Azteca. Mexico's record there is insane. They look, I mean, they look really, I mean, this is such a silly thing to say, but they look so up for it, the Mexican, the team.

30:22They're built on that win in the first game where I thought they looked a little bit nervy initially and the crowd were booing before the second goal. They're under intense pressure. They've now broken the curse, the quinto partido, winning a knockout game, which they've not done for a long, long time. they wanted England Mexico, friends of mine, Nick Ames from the Guardian is there watching it in Mexico City and he said that they were chanting for England they want to get England to the Azteca and they want to beat them at the Azteca Rivalry, because of a rivalry because they would take pleasure from beating England or because they think they're the team that they would most like well I suppose there were only two that they could have played, weren't there?