World Cup: Steve Clarke Goes & England Get The Job Done

0:00This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK.

0:29Snapdragon. That's how. Today's episode is sponsored by Smart Travel, a podcast from NerdWallet. Do you have a friend who treats airfare like a puzzle and somehow always ends up with a first-class upgrade? Smart Travel is like that friend, minus the group texts. NerdWallet's travel journalists break down the pros and cons of travel decisions, like when lounge access is worth paying for and which hotel loyalty programs actually pay off. Make your travel dollars work harder. Follow Smart Travel on your favourite podcast app. The Football Daily at the People World Cup 2026 with Rick Edwards and Lloyd Griffith, live from LA.

1:12Hello, you're listening to The Football Daily with... Lloyd Griffith. And... Rick Edwards. Oh, I'll say that one. Okay, and... Hello, and welcome to The Football Daily. We'll keep all this in. Okay. With... Lloyd Griffith. And Rick Edwards. No. Okay. Hello, and welcome to... You get the idea. A busy day today with England playing. We spoke to Paul Robinson a bit earlier on. Steve Clarke has resigned. Alibaba is going to join us to talk more on that. We finally have our round of 32 fixtures. So a quick roundup of the scores. England beat Panama 2-0 to top their group. Croatia beat Ghana 2-1 to finish second.

1:44Dr Congo beat Uzbekistan 3-1. They were 1-0 down. Colombia drew 0-0 with Portugal. And that means Dr Congo versus England in the round of 32. Worth saying, we're recording this before Algeria, Austria, and Jordan, Argentina. But if you want to catch up, all of the scores and highlights are on the BBC Sport website. And we are back in the shop again. So occasionally people just sort of pop their heads in and say, can I get a cherry bake? And we say, absolutely. Take it for free. Do you want to buy me one? Can I just say something? Have you ever been to Dr Congo? I have not been to Dr Congo. I've been to Dr Congo.

2:21Have you been to Dr Congo? I've been to Kinshasa. Have you? Yeah, I was working out there. when I had a proper job, like a LinkedIn account and a skill set. What were you doing? Well, I was working for an event. I was working for an events company. That's not a proper job. Yeah, you're right, actually. It wasn't. Come on. It was called Jack Morton, which no one's ever heard of. That's the name of the company. It's not an ad. That's just a guy's name. Essentially, I worked... You're just working for a man called Jack Morton. I worked for a man called Jack Morton who sent me... Go to Kinshasa. What for?

2:47It was. I basically... I had to take a satellite out. Are you bullying me, Jack? I was essentially a mule who had to take a satellite out. What were you taking? A satellite. Up your arse? No.

3:02I can't believe this. We're going to have to put the adult. We were doing a multi-country satellite launch of a phone company, and one of the satellites broke. And so I was helping back in at base, and they were like, Lloyd, you've basically got to go to Democratic Republic of Congo, like now. So I just had to pop a couple of pairs of pants in my suitcase with a satellite. I just went to Congo for four days. Did you have a nice time? Do you know what? It was an absolutely amazing experience. The people were so lovely, like so welcoming, so warm. What I was so fascinated by was the fact that the stadiums they play in, they were awful.

3:42I mean, so the fact that they've qualified and the fact that they're doing so well is amazing. I went there back in 2009, and I'm sure things have improved. but I'm absolutely buzzing for them. I did enjoy the reports today that the Uruguay Football Federation cancelled the players' private plane home and just said, you guys, make your own way home. You're a disgrace. I think it's so, it's so kind of petty. Yeah, it's ridiculous. I love it. It's because like... I think you should do that to all of the teams. When you go home, you've got to sort out your own travel. But it's not just that. Like, we've all been on stag dudes.

4:20if you're trying to get 40 men to get to somewhere, it's an absolute nightmare. And now imagine they're footballers. Yeah. Who can't, basically, no offence, can't do anything for themselves. So then who's the best man? Like, is it the captain? Does he go, right, well, I'll just put this on my credit card. It can't be Bielsa. Bielsa must not be the best man. Bielsa's just in the airport looking down at the floor, absolutely fuming. So who's going to do that? So someone's got to take hold of that. I'm like, right, okay, lads, we've got to get to the airport three hours before we've got our kit to take back.

4:47Worst possible organiser for that travel, Darwin Nunez. Why? The agent of chaos. The agent of chaos. The travel agent of chaos. Yeah, I mean... I like that. You wouldn't book someone called the travel agent of chaos. Where are we going? It's a lottery. It's a lottery. We don't know. You might not be going anywhere. Also, imagine if you're a Uruguay fan and they're just on the same plane as you. You're going to get so much abuse from just the fans. Imagine if the FA did that. you've lost a Dr. Congo have you? yeah well you're gonna I'm in Elliot Anderson's ear the whole way back 130 million pounds yeah is that what you think you're worth mate?

5:26sloppy passes as they're flying thin air via Reykjavik oh no no no sorry I'm having fun we of course we are we ended up watching the England game with a number of number of friends which is very nice mainly mine that yeah it was mainly yours thank you and you you invited everyone to a golf club yeah But the best bit about it was, in the week, you'd gone to the golf club, and you spoke to the guy, and you're like, so a table for 12, best spot in the house. And the guy was like, no problem at all. You'll get an email confirmation on Friday. You didn't get an email confirmation on Friday. And then this morning, we were going to get some coffee, and you said, well, I'll just call just to check that it's all okay.

6:09You called them up, and they said, no, we haven't got you booking. And then... I cried, basically. You switched, and it was so nice. I haven't heard you cross, and you were a little bit cross on the phone. You're like, well, what are you going to do about it? Because this is on you. This is your responsibility. I know it wasn't you I spoke to, but this is your responsibility. I'm going to have to let these people down. I was speaking to him, and I was like, I've got 13 friends that I've invited to your golf club, and we will buy a number of 0 % alcoholic drinks because we're working. Spoiler, we did.

6:41We did, yeah, yeah. We got through them. And he was like, okay, well, we just don't have space. I was like, please? I was like, have you heard of T4? And he's like, you're bringing Alexa Chung? I was like, no. Steve Jones? I was like, no. Makita Oliver? No. Her mother? Not her mother? No. I was like, Rick Edwards? He's like, I'll get the tables cleaned now. That's right. And that's what did it. So thank you so much for, but we had a great time, didn't we? We did have a great time. It was a surprisingly good venue. And then what was really lovely is my mate Chris Martin. not that one and also not the other one as well comedian Chris Martin he brought his wife and three year old child and you came over to me and said what did he say Rick?

7:23Well look the thing is so we've been away for three weeks now and I really miss my son who is a similar age to their son and I just came over to you and said do you think you're friends with mine if I just played with their son for a bit? And I looked at you and I was like oh crikey you miss your son and I was like yeah and I cannot tell you the relief they were delighted they were over the moon they're like sorry you want to go and look after our son over there like causing chaos on the golf yeah yes yes yes and I did he was great and he was lovely he turned over and he was shouting mummy who's this man yeah I have not heard of Steve Jones you know he was saying all those phrases which is mad he's only started to learn how to speak but it was it was lovely and I was very happy about it I think actually everyone was a winner everyone was a winner possibly from the child and also Panama yeah true actually probably Panama and a bit of big news that broke overnight Scotland boss Steve Clark has resigned after it's confirmed that Scotland have been eliminated let's bring in Ailey Barber Ailey the SFA released a statement almost as soon as the Croatia game finished there's a couple of quotes I just wanted to read out the most emotion from Steve Clark the most emotional part of this goodbye is from our players without whom we wouldn't have had any of the memories that we've accumulated from 2019 until now.

8:44They deserve all the praise and adulation that they receive. It is truly an honour to be called their gaffer. Thanks for having me and good luck to my successor. We spoke to you a few days ago and everyone was kind of full of hope, really. Has this come as much of a shock to you as it has to me? Absolutely. Couldn't believe it. I was halfway through my dinner in my hotel room, very glamorous life on the road, and suddenly I flick open social media and there it is. And I thought it was a spoof. I was trying to see if it was like some sort of generated account that had put this up. But no, it came from the Scotland national team's own account.

9:22And it is true. And Steve Clarke has made the decision himself to leave. And he, from what we've heard, sat the players down a few hours ago and told them that he was leaving his position. So I think it's come as a shock to pretty much everyone. So including the players then? including the players, including the backroom staff yeah and the timing quite strange as well the night before they depart it'll either be tomorrow or the day after that they depart Charlotte and head back home so yeah interesting timing but he obviously didn't want it to get out in any way before the players, he had a chance to tell the players himself because you don't need to speak to Steve Clark for very long to know how incredibly passionate he is about being the national team manager of Scotland.

10:09He has spoken about it at great lengths, the pride that he has, and the fact that he's taken the country back into major tournaments and then finally back to a World Cup as well. He's the most successful manager the nation has ever had. So it is a huge shock. He was also given a four-year contract just before this World Cup. So it will be a shock as well to those that are going to have to now try and find somebody to take his place. Because that's the thing that's really surprised me. there was a bit of chat before that contract was signed about whether this would be his last tournament and then once that contract was signed everyone was like, oh okay, that puts that to bed then so he's in for another four years.

10:46I wonder how much of a part the kind of media reaction and fan reaction to Scotland's performance at this tournament has played in his decision. It may well have. I don't think that sort of thing is something that Steve Clarke himself worries about or bothers about, but he has his family around him. He has young grandchildren. Maybe now that the age that they're getting to, maybe that has influenced his decision a bit. When it starts to affect your family, it becomes different. I'm not sure if that is completely the case, but we've heard managers previously in Scotland talk about the effects that it has on their family when they're under this backlash.

11:27And there has been a backlash. Some of it possibly warranted. Some of his reactions, post-match press conferences, post-match interviews have been prickly. Does that reflect particularly well on him? In the heat of the moment, I can understand why he is feeling the way he is. Every Scott was hurting after that game against Brazil because the overriding feeling was that that was going to be too damaging for Scotland to get out of the group. So everybody was hurting. I can understand why the emotions were high. but there has been a backlash about that there's also been criticism over the last few camp every campaign really that he's taken Scotland to about the way he sets the team up tried to be a little bit more in the front foot this time and then fell short due to some pretty bad defensive mistakes so he has taken a lot of criticism but it'll be interesting to hear from him exactly what his reasons have been to making this decision and we may get that in time.

12:25Ailey, obviously you're not home, you're in America, but do you know what the sentiment is back home? Obviously people are still sleeping, but from the people that are awake, what's the reaction from them? I think it's mixed. I think there are certainly people that have wanted Steve Clarke to go because there has been so much hope in the qualifying campaigns to suggest this Scotland team is the best capable team of getting out of the group stage, something that Scotland have never done before. and there was a real feeling that this would be the time. So there has been disappointment at the fact that Scotland failed to do it on the pitch.

13:00But there are also people who look at it and say, we've had, as a nation, not quite three, because the first tournament was during COVID, but there are certainly people who have been to all three major tournaments and brilliant summers following the national team back on the stage. Scottish football fans have wanted that for so long and Steve Clarke has brought that back. He's reconnected the national team with the public when his first game at Hamden was played, it was played in front of a third of a full stadium, half a stadium. Now it's full every single game. He's reconnected that. And the environment that he's created alongside his players, the likes of Andy Roberts and John McGinn, Scott McTominay, the senior players, is an environment that every single player turns up to every single international camp.

13:45So I think there's probably two sides off the coin in terms of how people are looking at this decision that he's made. But ultimately, it's massive shoes to fill. Can we indulge in a bit of idle speculation now? Who will the SFA be looking at? Because it's a difficult job. Steve Clarke has done really well. And for the fans, it's evidently not quite good enough. Could you prize David Moyes away from Everton, for example? He will be one of the names, but whether he'll want to leave Everton, given what he's been building there be a big question. Derek McInnes would have been another name but he's just gone to Rangers so that's not happening.

14:28Yeah, if he hadn't gone to Rangers he'd be well in the frame, wouldn't he? Yeah, 100%, yeah. Because he's always seen as being a future Scotland manager. Neil McCann is another name that will be floated around, I'm sure. He's done really well at Kilmarnock. That was Steve Clarke's pathway into the Scotland job. So he may well be in the frame. Stephen Naismith, one of Steve Clarke's coaching staff may well also be in the frame. There's also names like Ange Postacoglu being mentioned, who's been the national team manager of Australia and obviously has been loved in Scotland by half of Glasgow, not the other half, but certainly been admired for the style of football that he played at Celtic by anybody who watched them.

15:04So there's a few names knocking around, but it'll be really interesting to see who's interested, who Scotland can attract and what they do because the expectations of Scotland national team has been raised hugely by what Steve Clarke's achieved and what he's done. And you look at the next Euros, the home Euros, and the expectation is that Scotland will be there and that they will once again try to make that history of getting out of the group. What will happen? Does he go home on a separate plane? Does he get the same plane as the lads? I think they all still like him. Yeah, I know, but surely...

15:37I think they're all still pals. He's not being ostracised. He's not being ostracised. He's not being tarred and feathered. But it's just a weird thing. He's just there, like, you all right? Stockhorland and Gaffer? Yeah, the Stockhorland and Gaffer. Steve. Excuse me. I mean, it's probably down the list of priorities for the Scotland backroom staff to be answering that question, but I will try my best to find out to you, Lloyd. I'd appreciate that. Very kind. No worries. Just humour the little man, please. Cheers, Hayley.

16:20Take the leash off your laptop with the processor that gives you long battery life. Work on the go. Jump between back-to-back calls. Stay locked in from brewing morning coffee to burning the midnight oil. Get maximum performance, even when unplugged. Finally, the freedom to move across the room or across the world is here. Snapdragon, that's how Today's episode is sponsored by Smart Travel a podcast from NerdWallet Do you have a friend who treats airfare like a puzzle and somehow always ends up with a first class upgrade? Smart Travel is like that friend minus the group texts NerdWallet's travel journalists break down the pros and cons of travel decisions like when lounge access is worth paying for and which hotel loyalty programs actually pay off Make your travel dollars work harder Follow Smart Travel on your favourite podcast app.

17:43of the nations and of people who love football the People World Cup 2026 listen on BBC Sounds the Football Daily Podcast at the People World Cup 2026 with Rick Edwards and Lloyd Griffith listen on BBC Sounds as I mentioned earlier on we spoke to Paul Robinson who was still in the stadium and we all agreed just job done for England yeah exactly that I think that's the that's the stain and that's the the mantra from the England players that are speaking to us after the game. They expected a difficult game. I don't think they expected the deadlock to be broken as late as it was. They would have liked an early goal to make the pattern of the game very different.

18:23But I think, you know, in hindsight, it's a job well done. They've topped the group. They knew it was going to be difficult today. Panama trying to get their first ever World Cup point. They had nothing to lose, everything to play for. And from an England point of view, I think if you'd have asked Thomas Tuchel the way that the performances have gone, he would much rather have had a Croatia-like performance today to take into the knockout stages rather than starting the tournament extremely well. Everyone thinking that we're going to win the World Cup as we always do after the Croatia performance and then the two clunky performances that have ensued.

18:52But as you say, that's exactly the saying that's ringing around the stadium. Job done, we move on. Even though we didn't manage to score in the first half, the intent was there, wasn't it? It was more of an attacking starting XI compared to the last game, would you say? He had the opportunity to leave out Declan Rice because of that booking that he picked up and the way that they finished in the Garner game with a 4-1, 4-1 formation, they looked like a much more attacking threat. And credit to Thomas Tuchel, he realised that. And when you're looking at Declan Rice and Elliot Anderson, who do you leave out?

19:21You don't leave either of them out on a good day. You know, you play one of them higher up the field. But in this game today, he didn't require two holding midfielders. And in this system, it allowed Jude Bellingham to play almost a free roll. Elliot Anderson sat in front of the back four. Then you had Saka, Morgan Rodgers in the 10 and Marcus Rashford out on the left, which then you thought, well are Rodgers and Bellingham going to get in one another's way actually playing as two number 10s but they didn't because Jude Bellingham was given a really free roaming role which played to England's advantage later in the game I thought Elliot Anderson actually did a really good job in there He's becoming undroppable I mean he's becoming a really key figure for England we spoke about it on air after the game and we talked about the rotation in the fullback areas the two central defensive partnerships you know which one would be which but when you look at Thomas Tuchel's England there's a spine there that are undroppable and it's Pickford and at the moment it's Konza, Anderson, Rice, Bellingham, Harry Kane and that spine you will see go through the tournament he'll put meat on the bones of that spine, there'll be different personnel I think he's still looking for answers in the wide areas the relationships between the wide players and the full backs are yet to be finalised if you like, I think he's still searching for answers in those areas but when you look at that spine and Elliot Anderson is a key part of that Harry Kane is now England's record goal scorer in the World Cup I mean how lovely is that for him?

20:41You've run out of superlatives for him and I think the player that he's become not just the player that he's become but the person that he's become as well off the field, the leader all the superlatives the captain, talisman, leader all of those type of things you can accustom to him he's become so key for England I mean Thomas Tuchel has showed in this season with leaving Jude Bellingham out of the squad, leaving him out the start in 11, that England are OK without Jude Bellingham. Yes, he's a big game player, he's a big moment player, but actually with Morgan Rodgers, they've got another option.

21:14Without Harry Kane, they don't have another option. He is that key to this England side. He has become, you know, listen, he's up there. When you talk about the likes of Ronaldo and Messi, if he doesn't win the Ballon d 'Or this year, I don't know why. It's 61 goals in 51 games for Bayern Munich. the numbers that he's churning out on a regular basis and yes we do give him a lot of plaudits but I still don't think he gets the plaudits that he deserves because he's up there in that bracket of striker that we're talking about I take your point about Harry Kane being the one that England can't cope without but actually today without Jude Bellingham England would have struggled well that's what I say about him being the big game player the big moment player but you have to get Jude Bellingham the Jude Bellingham that we've got at this World Cup and Thomas Tuchel's worked hard on that I think his management of Jude Bellingham the way that he's treated him as in leaving him out the side leaving him out the squad and showing them showing Jude Bellingham that it's not all about Jude Bellingham it's about the team it's about the collective and that was the message that we got from the players and from the manager after that opening game against Croatia where Jude played a huge part in that as well but you see what you're getting from him today and he's playing with the freedom and he's playing like the Jude Bellingham that you want in and around the squad and the side and he's a big moments player like he got his goal today and he got his assist today.

22:31That's exactly why he's in this side. But if he's not in that right frame of mind and that mentality where Thomas Tuchel has put him coming into this tournament, I'm not necessarily sure that you get the best out of him. But we are certainly getting the best out of him at the moment. The right-back issues look to be a bit of a problem going forward. Kwanza went off limping, Jed Spence come on. Is that a worry? I expected Jed Spence to start in all honesty. I thought that would be a straight switch from left-back to right-back, an easy option with Rhys James is his injury. The worrying thing for Thomas Tuchel is we don't actually know how often if again we're going to see Rhys James in this tournament.

23:08He's brought Trevor Chalabar into the squad who can cover as a central defender. When he initially came into the squad I thought okay that's maybe for cover for John Stones and the central defenders. That he's not quite sure on their fitness. But actually with Jed Spence he's going to have to play there now. Rhys James doesn't look like he's coming back anytime soon. Nico O 'Reilly was the first pick in the first game against Croatia, missed the last game, came back in again today. It is an issue for Thomas Tuchel and it's going to be a question that will always be asked of him as we progress through the tournament.

23:37Should you have brought maybe Trent Alexander-Arnold? That will come up in conversation. If England are not successful, we will always ask those questions. But at the moment, the injuries that he's picking up, and Madiweke as well, he didn't look comfortable towards the end of that game. I know he came off the bench, but actually he picked up a little bit of a knock. so he's got injuries going into this last 32 game and there's only four days to go until they play again Shearer on commentary said that he felt that better opposition would have troubled England and I think that's probably fair, isn't it?

24:08Absolutely, I mean you look at the goal that Panama had ruled out for offside and it was a marginal offside I mean I was doing the commentary for the TV and initially you thought, oh he's miles offside, yeah no problem there and then you saw the replays in the VAR it was a very, very close decision and the TV cameras cut to Thomas Tuchel once or twice in that game. The substitute that came off the bench, Diaz, he caused England problems and against a better side, a better opponent, granted we wouldn't play the same way. We'd play with Anderson and Rice, the two holding midfielders. We wouldn't be that exposed.

24:37But actually the chances that Panama created specifically towards the end of the game were worrying. And as I say, the cut to the England manager, it was a persona of frustration. You could see the way he was. He wasn't happy with what he saw. And the interview that we played out on Five Live after the game, It was a Thomas Tuchel that was kind of dead batting the questions back, exactly what you'd expect, but you could tell he was grumpy, he wasn't happy. You know, he's picked up injuries and this wasn't the type of performance that he wanted today. There were certain things in that performance, more so defensively, that didn't please the England manager.

25:07Do you think he'll have a little shout this afternoon? What, himself? Well, himself and anyone else who happens to be around. I don't think he's, I think he's more constructive than that. You work for some managers and the old school throwing the teacups around in the dressing room. I think that's gone. And a lot of the managers now, especially the modern day managers, they will actually take themselves off into the coach's room, which is at the side of the dressing room, before they come in and address the dressing room. Basically, it's obviously high octane. There's a lot of emotion going on.

25:35And the players will shout and bawl. They'll rant and rave and they'll have their talks with each other. And the modern day manager will take themselves off into the coach's room, let the dressing room calm down, let the quiet ensue. and then they will go in and deliver a calm, collected, tactical opinion rather than just immediately going in there hot-headed and, you know, shooting off the cuff, if you like. So they've got a sort of rage room. I like that. Love that. Go in there, let off some steam, smash some stuff up. Smash a few TVs, get out of there. Paul, just quickly, is it going to be all right?

26:03Are we going to be OK? There's a few injuries. Good question. We've not really kind of, you know, won by huge margins. Tell me it's going to be OK. If this was the first game and Ghana was the second game and Croatia was the third game, then I'd say, yeah, we're absolutely flying. We're building into this tournament. What a great performance. Look forward to the knockout rounds. But actually the Croatia performance, as I say, we all thought we were going to win the World Cup and then the two clunky performances after it. So yes, I do think there is more to come from England, but I didn't see enough today to convince me that we're going to go all the way.