World Cup: Thomas Tuchel & Jordan Pickford Ahead Of DR Congo Match

0:00This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK.

0:30giving you the chance to experience the precision and performance of the grid on the open road. Cadillac V-Series, distinctive luxury performance, engineered to thrill. Discover the V-Series lineup at Cadillac.com. The ultimate cookout starts with the ultimate ingredients. At Whole Foods Market, no antibiotics ever, burgers and kebabs are prepped and ready to throw on the grill. Fire up a juicy ribeye. Grab creamy potato salad and savory flatbreads from the prepared foods department and round it all out with 365 brand condiments, chips and dips at everyday low prices. Whole Foods Market, make your summer sizzle.

1:11At the FIFA World Cup 2026, the Football Daily Podcast with John Murray. Hello from Georgia in the heart of Atlanta just a few hours away from England's first knockout match at this World Cup against DR Congo here. Just out of the window in front of me I can see the greenery of the Centennial Olympic Park from 1996 which for this World Cup is actually a fan park and we're just a couple of goal kicks away from the futuristic stadium where this match will be played. Kick-off 5pm BST you can watch on BBC One or listen with us on Five Live and when I say us, that is me and former England goalkeeper Paul Robinson World Cup goalkeeper, 41 caps How are you feeling about it Paul?

1:59You say a couple of goal kicks I reckon I could get there in one Do you think so? Do you remember when I hit that screen in 2006? Yeah for sure, I'd definitely get there in one goal kick but I think England have been lucky in a way playing in Dallas in the air conditioned arena and the two games that we've seen that ensued that, it was pouring rain. And both days, either side of that was glorious sunshine. So I think the conditions have been very, very favourable for England. But going into this game, it's a game that we'd obviously expect them to win. The Croatia performance that we saw, we all got excited again, and we spoke about this many times, and we thought, OK, here we go, England are going to win the World Cup.

2:39And then the two performances that followed that, I'd prefer it to be flicked the other way. I'd like the Croatia performance in the last game bringing a lot of confidence into the knockout stages. But I would be very disappointed if England didn't progress through the round of 32 tomorrow. It's a great point you make, because this match is inside, air-conditioned. The first person I saw out on the street corner this morning, he said to me, Hey, welcome to Hotlander. And it is hot. It is very hot here during the hours of daylight. But England won't have that. That's the first four matches England have played when all of the talk, so much of the talk in advance of this tournament was how are they going to cope with the sweltering conditions?

3:20That must be a help. Definitely it's a help. I mean, without being the arrogant Englishman and thinking that England are going to progress the whole way, the biggest test that they've got ahead of them is Mexico in Mexico and Brazil in Miami. Here in Atlanta, they won't have a problem. But if they do progress from here, which we all think that they will do and hope that they will do. Mexico and Mexico, then Brazil and Miami, and then they're back here for a potential semi-final against Argentina. So the conditions that they've had to deal with have been very, very favourable for them. But after today, it's going to be very difficult for them going forward.

3:59Right, the team news is, as regards Rhys James and Jarrell Kwanzaa, they will not be involved. Thomas Tuchel says that they're getting close. they've been on the pitch but they will not be involved and he actually said we have to make sure we have more matches which might see them involved as for DR Congo they have a completely clean bill of health their coach Sebastian De Sabra said that he can pick from all 26 players and there are some very familiar players in there Wan Bissaka Axel Tuanzibi Noah Siddiqui of Sunderland who did so well this season Otto Masawaku from West Ham and Sunderland Chancelain Bember the captain who had a spell at Newcastle and of course Joanne Wisser who scored three goals at this World Cup, as many goals as he scored for Newcastle in the whole of last season so lots of familiar faces Well you've just stole my line there John, I had all those players lined up and ready to go and tell you the dangers that they've got, but I think they will play in a very similar way to Ghana and Panama, I think they will sit deep they will hold a low block and the blueprint to play against England in this tournament has been proven.

5:06England find it very difficult to play against a low block and I think that's exactly what they'll do. But at some point, we're in a knockout game. They have to come out and they have to play. You know, I think there'll be one team that sets up to win the game, obviously England, and DR Congo will set up to stay in the game. And I think from an England point of view, it's going to be about patience. It's going to be frustrating. We may not see the best of them again, but I think if he plays that 4-1, 4-1 formation, I mean, Elliot Anderson and Declan Rice individually are undroppable, both of them.

5:38But I think you will see Declan Rice employed in a much higher role. I think Elliot Anderson will sit deep in front of the back four and Declan Rice will play up alongside Saka, Rashford maybe and Bellingham that we saw in a free role. I think he will do the same again. So I'm looking forward to an exciting attack in England because they know what they're coming up against. And you think Spence at right back do you rather than moving Conjure across and bringing Stones in? Well, he's got those options, and I think that's why he brought, obviously, Trevor Chaliver into the squad. He was obviously concerned about John Stones' fitness, and he was worried about his two central defensive partners and the cover that he had there.

6:21There'll always be a question asked about Trent Alexander-Arnold and why wasn't he brought into the squad, and that will only go away if England are successful. If England are not successful and they lose games, there will always be a question of why wasn't he brought into the squad but I think when you look at the side and the team that he puts out he's got a spine through the side he's got Jordan Pickford, he's got Konza, he's got Anderson, he's got Rice he's got Bellingham, he's got Kane through the middle the meat on the bones I'm not so sure that he's confident about you look at the full backs that have changed game by game in the last three games and you look at the wide players that have changed game by game and it's very difficult to get an understanding between players and some cohesion in the squad and in the side when you're constantly changing personnel.

7:09The spine through the side, not worried about at all. But I'm still not sure with injuries and with lack of form, etc. and the change, not so sure that he knows what he wants to do on either flank. Well, we're going to hear from Thomas Tuchel, we're going to hear from Jordan Pickford as well, who I also spoke to today. But it is just to flesh it out a little bit. So this is England, ranked fourth in the world, against DR Congo, ranked 41st in the world. But we know DR Congo, they've not been to the World Cup for 52 years. We know that at this World Cup so far, they've drawn with Portugal. So that was their first point at a World Cup.

7:47They've won a match for the first time at a World Cup against Uzbekistan. They've qualified from their group for the first time at a World Cup. So all boxers have been ticked for DR Congo. So the pressure, really, I think you could say is off. And the other thing as well, with everything that's going on back home in their country in Central Africa, amidst the Ebola outbreak, also war in the east of the country, and there is a feeling that this team, with their performance here, have raised spirits to an extent back in their home country. So that is the background to it. This is what Thomas Tuchel, the England manager, had to say to me about it.

8:27It's knockout football and you could see how tight the matches are until now. We face a strong opponent and everything is now condensed into 90, 120 or into the penalty shootout. That's how it is. It's exciting. What do you make of these opponents? Because they've come here to this World Cup and they've drawn with Portugal. they've got their first point, they've got their first win, they've qualified through so almost every box is ticked. Does that pile the pressure on you? No, but we expect a very determined and very compact, very physical, very fast team from Congo. It's a bit of a mixture of Panama and Ghana again So we see a compact block of 10 players defending.

9:24We see strong and fast players in counter-attack. We see a team that doesn't concede chances. We see a team that concedes not a lot of goals. So that's what's coming. And they play fully from the role of an underdog. That's what we're facing. That's the setup. But we are well prepared and we're ready to go. We've heard many of the players talking about wanting to free the mind. Is that where this really comes into play, when the pressure's on to be able to play with that freedom? Yeah, but freedom can also mean that you just accept the situation as it is and you don't over-expect. No one beats them with four or five goals, so why would we expect that from us?

10:08They made life difficult to any opponent. I mean, like you said, to Portugal and Colombia, two excellent teams in their group, and they have difficulties to create anything. So you need to understand the context. You need to understand that this is maybe not the moment to shine and to play spectacular, but it's a moment to find a way to win. This is the target. And this is where this mindset is also a free mind. Are you very ready for penalties? Should it come to that? Of course we're ready. What have you done? Anything extra special? No, we trained it and the FA runs an excellent programme on highest level and we followed the programme.

10:50And just in terms of right back, who's the... I will not tell you, but we will have a strong right back tomorrow. Thanks, Thomas. Good luck. So there we are. That is the England manager Thomas Tuchel speaking to me on the eve of England's match against DR Congo. We're here in Atlanta. Paul Robinson, England World Cup goalkeeper, sitting alongside me. Thomas Tuchel also saying that now is the moment to find ways to win. He said this team of his, he feels England have the capacity to make life difficult. But when he was talking about the prospects for this World Cup, Thomas Tuchel said, we're going to need nerves of steel and a bit of luck.

11:30And that's really where it comes in, isn't it, now? You need a lot of luck to get through the knockout stages. we've spoken to Thomas Tuchel and we've watched England every game since he's been in charge and I don't know if you remember was it October that we went to Serbia and we saw them they put five past the Serbia side that at the time we thought may have been a threat to England and he came out in the press conference afterwards and his post-match interviews and he went I told you, I told you this was coming I've seen this coming for a long time I know this from my team and I think from that point onwards he made the team the star and I think that that's what he's tried to concentrate on in this World Cup and with Jude Bellingham, the way that he's trekked him as in leaving him out of the squad, leaving him out of the side and brought him back in and we're seeing the best of him and I think England are a team that thrive in a knockout stage in a group stage, teams will sit in that low block that we always talk about the low defensive block and all the terminologies that we use and make it hard for England but actually when you're in a knockout game you need to win the game so at some point your opposition has got to come out and try and beat you and that plays into England's hands absolutely for sure because we've got the players and we've got the quality to play against the team who wants to come and play if you want to sit in a deep block and you want to make it hard for England and you want to put two banks of a five and a four and say go on then break us down and go as long as you can and get to 90 minutes for a nil-nil draw you can't do that in a knockout game So it's almost like Thomas Tuchel has constructed his side to go to the knockout phase and be that team that progresses through.

13:14From the former England goalkeeper to the current England goalkeeper, Jordan Pickford of Everton and England. This is what he had to say to me. It's good. It's an exciting part of it now. You know, the first group game is always exciting because you just want to get going and got to get the job done. And now it's the real time, the knockout stages. Do you think that the big guys have really contributed, haven't they, Bellingham and Kane? Is this the point where it's time for everyone else to contribute as well and maybe take the load off? No, I think everyone contributes in different ways and different manners.

13:49And luckily enough, we've got one of the best strikers in the world and one of the best number 10s in the world who contribute with a lot of goals. But you see with them too, a lot of hard work gets put in without the ball as well. So a lot of contributions is everybody's a team, that's what the manager picks a team for in the togetherness and for me it's been great and you want other people to score but if people are feeding the likes of Harry up top then we know he gets a sniffer goal, it's an opportunity he's going to take. You've had to make the changes in defence, there will be another change for this match.

14:25How does that affect you as the goalkeeper behind them? That's fine. I kind of know everyone's straight in front of me. I'm quite, I think, very aware of good football knowledge. And yeah, I think I know whoever gets put in front, the manager has the tactics and everyone knows the job and everyone knows what to do. So for me, it's just, it's a normal service, really. And tell us as well, it is possible, obviously, that penalties could be involved here. How do you approach that mentally? What sort of things are you doing in the build-up to these matches? when you are thinking about the part of your mind that looks after penalties?

15:02For me, it's everyone in tournament football, you want to win the game in 90 minutes. But then also, you've got to keep putting, if it doesn't come in 90 minutes, you've got to be prepared for the full 120, if not penalties. That's the nature of the knockout stages now. That's the enjoyable part. For me, it's just fully prepared and do my work during the week. and the boxes are ticked and I'm just ready to go. You always back yourself, don't you, in a penalty shootout? I've got a decent record, so yeah, I've always backed myself. I'm powerful and I feel like I'm always there to step up when called upon.

15:41Just a few numbers for you to finish, because I know you like a number or two. So 88th cap tomorrow, 30th consecutive start at European Championship World Cup, which is amazing. 16th World Cup appearance, so only Peter Shelton Moore with one. when we talk about experience that's right there isn't it for me it shows a lot of hard work put in and keep improving myself and having the managers putting trust in here and for me it just shows how the hard work I've put in over the years and the experience I gain and how I've kept improving it just shows the improvement side of it and yeah the numbers are really good on a high level and may that continue and I bring experience, I bring leadership qualities and I'm vocal and when called upon make big saves.

16:31But yeah, my all-around game's in a very good place at the minute and I can't wait to get going. And more generally for the team, how confident are you that England will turn it on in this match now we've reached the knockout stages? Yeah, well, you know, Congo's qualified on merit and they're in knockout stages for a reason and you see what's happened in the last couple of days. Germany getting beat and that's what happens because people are very good sides they're not here for no reason and we've got to be very well prepared for them and you know if it's not everyone wants to score in the first 5-10 minutes but if not we've got to be patient, play our game and not get too frustrated and just keep cracking on and let them hopefully break them down and get them goals that we know we've got in our locker and that's the standard we set ourselves.

17:18So there we are, Jordan Pickford, Paul Robinson 88th cap this will be for him and there is that potential of being involved from this point on in a penalty shootout where his record, as he said is pretty good Very good, very good and I think it's obviously going to be a topic of conversation seeing the sides that we've seen eliminated from this World Cup and it's very, very difficult now for a goalkeeper you do all your homework and we see the old water bottle with the writing down the side and all the preparation that you can do. I mean, it's not cloak and dagger. Everybody knows what you're doing.

18:00So it's more of a mind game than it's ever been. What you try and do as a goalkeeper, you watch penalty takers in a pressure situation. You try and find their safety penalty, if you like. There's no point in watching a penalty taker take a penalty when their team's 3-0 up because I think both you and I could do that. I mean, you can pick your spot and do what you want. You need to find the footage or the games that they've played in where they've taken penalties in the 91st minute where their team are 1-0 down or where it's 0-0. And that's where you find their safety penalty, where they go to.

18:34And the worst thing now is they know you've done that and you know that they know that you've done that. So it's more of a mind game than ever. Like in 2006, when we got knocked out to Portugal, I knew exactly who was coming up, in what order, and what their safety penalty was. But likewise, flip that on its head, they knew that I knew that information. And for me, the penalty that beat me at the end, the Ronaldo penalty, I knew that his safety penalty was high up to my right. And he walking up knew that I knew that that was the case. And I went with what I'd done, the percentages, my homework, if you like, and I flew high away to my right and he cleverly put it high away to my left.

19:17So that gives you a little bit of an insight into what might be lying ahead should it come to a penalty shootout. And actually Thomas Tuchel talking about penalty shootouts today in terms of who will be taking them for England. He said, and we know this because this was the case under Gareth Southgate for many years, that the FA does have a programme in place to work on penalty shootouts. And he said the players know the process. And he also said, interestingly, Paul, we don't ask the players where they want to take a penalty, which number they want to be. And that's from the FA process. He said, we know the order that we want the players to take the penalties.

19:57And it just depends on who finishes the match. Goes all out the window. Everything goes out the window. As soon as you finish the match, because you don't know how the match is going to play out. You don't know who's going to be on the pitch at the end. And you can religiously practice penalties like we did in 2006. I mean, Sven had all the players sat in the centre circle after every training session. I mean, you'll know it from personal experience. You guys get to come in for the first 15 minutes of a session. You don't get to see the rest of the session. But at the end of every single session that we did before 2006, the players would amass in the centre circle.

20:32There'd be a goalkeeper at one end and the other end of the pitch, and we'd practice the walk, everything. But there's nothing that can recreate pressure. you can practice all you like, you can practice the execution you can practice the strike of the ball you can practice the order you're going to take it in but there is absolutely nothing that recreates the pressure of all of a sudden realising that everyone at home is watching this is what I watched as a kid I watched these penalties this is where I am now and the pressure on the penalty taker is huge, as a goalkeeper it's kind of a free ride because you're on a hide into nothing but for the penalty taker it's massive and it's very very difficult.

21:12Well if England do make long progress in this World Cup the chances are there will be at least one maybe more penalty shootouts to... Let's hope not, let's hope not. Indeed, let's hope not. Good feeling for this match? I'd be very disappointed if we didn't progress. If England don't get through this, that is World Cup failure for Thomas Tuchel isn't it? Absolutely, it's World Cup failure and then that brings into the question about his new contract and his extended contract with the team. They have to progress. I think they will progress without being the arrogant Englishman thinking that England will go to the final.

21:48It's going to be a very, very difficult route. We've got Mexico, we've got Brazil and we've got Argentina should everything pan out as we expect. But, as I always say, we can beat anyone on our day. Paul Robinson, thank you very much. You will be sitting alongside me in this amazing stadium. here in Atlanta. It is noon local time. It's an early start for us on match day. Kick-off 5pm in the UK, so 5pm BST. And as I say, live with us on 5 Live. It is also live on BBC One. Guy Mowbray and Alan Shearer will be commentating there. Or you can, if you like, listen to our 5 Live commentary with the BBC Pictures, and you can do that via the red button and the iPlayer.

22:36But there we are. You're all ready now for England against DR Congo at the World Cup.

22:45There's this feeling you get when it's about to go in the net and everyone goes... Kane with a shot! He will not be denied! Yeah! Yeah! I don't know what that's called, But I know what it feels like. We know that feeling. What a sensational, what a phenomenal victory! The FIFA World Cup 2026 on Five Live and BBC Sounds.

23:21The United States is about to mark its 250th anniversary. And so on the Global Story podcast from the BBC, we're telling surprising tales of American influence on the world stage and in ordinary people's lives all across the globe. We have this ability to export our story and a lot of people have bought it. I feel like the American dream is alive but not well. From the BBC, it's the United States at 2.50. Listen on bbc.com or wherever you get your podcasts.