World Cup: Tuchel, Konsa, Guéhi & Stones Ahead Of Argentina

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1:16Hello, I'm John Murray and this 5 Live Football Daily podcast comes from Atlanta, Georgia on the eve of England's World Cup semi-final against the defending champions Argentina. It is the first meeting between England and Argentina for 21 years in a senior men's international. The first time Lionel Messi will play against England. I can tell you that Argentina and England fans are flooding into Atlanta. In fact, a few of them have just walked through the door just close to where I'm sitting here. And of course this match will decide who will face Spain in Sunday's World Cup final in New Jersey.

1:58You can watch it on BBC One or on any of the various BBC platforms. You can also listen to the Five Live commentary with the BBC TV pictures all synced up via the red button or the iPlayer, which is proving to be a popular option, they tell me. And with me for that commentary again will be Paul Robinson, England World Cup goalkeeper, who played in that England-Argentina match in 2005, which was a friendly in Geneva. But whenever England and Argentina play, it's a big deal. And this is as big as any of the matches that they've played, Paul. I was going to say, I don't pick you up on a lot of things, but there's no such thing as a friendly between England and Argentina.

2:39I think the World Cup semi-final, obviously, it has its own magnitude, but actually the rivalry between England and Argentina, it just adds to the occasion. This is the one we wanted. I mean, we both sat together, didn't we? We watched the Argentina quarterfinal, and we kind of wanted them to go through because we wanted this spectacle. From an England point of view, this is brilliant. It's the first time in World Cup history that the top four seeds have actually got to the semifinals, all of them. The France-Spain game that we saw was excellent. It was a result that I didn't expect, and I'm hoping for similar for England against Argentina.

3:15Right, we are going to hear from Thomas Tuchel, Esri Konza, Mark Gay and John Stones. A bumper set of interviews before this match. And let's start with the manager with his thoughts on the eve of the big match. I try to take it all in. Not a lot of time to really enjoy and reflect, but maybe a little bit at dinner because it's a big football match on a big occasion. and we want to take the next step. And how is everyone? Declan Rice first and foremost, I suppose. Declan is in training. I still need to double-check with him how he feels, but he's ready to start, of course, and then we will go from where the match takes him.

4:02It's, of course, in more agreeable conditions for him. Everyone else is available except for Jordan Henderson and Gerald Conzer. So how are you going to get at Argentina? Well, I think I expect an emotional game. I expect a physical game. The conditions will be brilliant. And so we will try to make it and to accept the physicality of it. And yeah, that's basically it. We will be asked a lot of questions. So they are a complete team. They are since many years together with the coach. They have the experience of several tournaments together, you can see that. Like I said, I think we can match the intensity, maybe even put our intensity on top of them and then it will be a match of moments and momentums.

4:59I expect several momentum swings, to be honest. They are very, very strong in possession, very strong in the last third of the match with a lot of players inside and of course Messi who finds always solutions where no one else finds them. But we have also our weapons to hurt them. So we need to dig in. We need to stay focused and need a complete performance over the whole 90 plus minutes. Strangely, are they the kind of opponents that you might actually get that performance that you've been looking for against? I think so. I think so. I think it will bring the best out of us because it is this kind of a fixture where we play all in, in itself.

5:47And it's the excitement. This is just there because it's the occasion. But it's also like the fixture against Argentina. Yeah, I'm hoping for that. I see the excitement. I see a switch in energy again in our group. We reach the next level. I see players excited. I'm very glad because I see them very hungry. I like the energy, so the hunger to play this match, the excitement to play this match is on the highest level and this is how it should be. And you know the history, of course. So that means, surely, this has to be one for calm heads, yeah? If possible, but I think that's a lot to ask. I'm not so sure if we see a lot of calm heads, me included, tomorrow, but that would be ideal.

6:34to play with a calm head and a hot heart. But I think it will be emotional. Everything else would really surprise me. And it's just what both teams bring to the table. They are an emotional and very supportive group within themselves. We are as well. We're very competitive. They have the edge. We have the edge. we are proven in several battles now through this tournament. And this is, of course, a big one. And we're up for it. Well, England will be with you. Good. Thank you. Thanks, Thomas. Good luck. Thomas Tuchel there, the England manager, who was also telling us, he was asked in the media conference about how he's been dealing with all of the pressure and the attention.

7:23And he said that he does his morning sport, he goes on a bike, and he sometimes ends up having an ice cream in a car park and he said it makes him feel like a child again. It helps him reconnect to the feeling that we all have inside about the World Cup which I thought was a great little insight about him just taking a bit of time away when he can. Sounds like one of our mornings together, John. But it's very intense in a tournament and as a player and the coaching staff and obviously the manager, you're forced into an environment in a hotel to be with people who you would not necessarily choose to spend that amount of time with.

8:00And you have to have your own time and you have to have your downtime. And I thought it was very interesting one of Thomas Tuchel's post-match interviews when he said, I'm doing nothing tomorrow. I'm taking the whole day off. I'm not watching football. I'm not looking at football. We're not analysing anything. And he took the day off. And actually, in life, you do need that. And I think the quality that he showed with his management skills over the last 12 months and in this tournament, we're getting the rewards from it. So, Thomas Tuchel, we also heard from Lionel Scaloni today. And of course, this fixture has such a long history of antagonism.

8:41We know about the Hand of God match in 1986 at the World Cup, but so many of them. And of course, in 1986 as well, feelings were still running high following the Falklands War between the UK and Argentina, which had taken place four years earlier. And that's not gone away. Lionel Scaloni was asked about the relevance of that to this match. And he said, it happened a long time ago. He said, of course, we remember the people who were lost in that war. He said it was a sad time. But he said this is a football match and the players don't have the relevance to it. So that from Lionel Scaloni. back to the England players and we're going to hear next from Esri Konza who has started all of the matches here he's filled in at right wing back he's played at right back and most of the time in central defence and well we will find out tomorrow where he's going to play in this match which we assume he is but this is what he had to say I was reminded earlier that eight years ago I was in League One playing a playoff semi-final and fast forward to now I'm here in the World Cup semi-final.

9:51So, yeah, surreal. But, yeah, very proud of myself and what I've been able to achieve over the years and, you know, very blessed. And, yeah, hopefully tomorrow we can get it overland to top it off. Are you a guy who feels nerves before a match? Sometimes, not really. But, yeah, I think having nerves is a good thing, depending on who you are. You know, everyone, each to their own, everyone's different. but for me I think having nerves is always a good thing. Being nervous makes me concentrate a bit more than if I was to be too relaxed. Yeah, nervous, nerves, but it's all good. How have you coped with the different challenges that have been asked of you here, whether it's in three different positions now?

10:40Yeah, I've coped really well. I'm a player that's played in numerous positions over my career, so I've always said, wherever the boss wants to put me, I'll always go and do my best and do a job to help the team. I did that against Norway and if I have to do it again, I'll be more than happy to do it. Just give us an assessment of the threats that Argentina have, whether it's Alvarez, whether it's Messi, Enzo Fernandes, Lautaro Martinez, the different challenges that they will pose. I think everyone knows the qualities that Argentina have. the talent they have on the pitch but I also think our quality and our talent, what we have on the pitch is even better so I think tomorrow, like I said, we have to go out there and show what we're capable of and stick to our game plan and I'm sure we'll do just fine So Esri Konza, Paul Robinson is your feeling that he will play it right back again?

11:40I do think he'll play it right back although Rhys James came on in the number six role in midfield. But that's one to look out for because Konza's a player that Thomas Tuchel trusts very much. We'll talk all the time in the tournament about the spine of the team that he's got. He's got Jordan Pickford and Konza is the one in front of him that's been the constant, whether it's at right back or whether it's at centre half. Then there's Rice, then there's Anderson, Bellicum, Kane. And you look at that, that's been the only consistent through the tournament. And Konza's a player that he does like and he relies on him, whether it be at right back or at centre half.

12:15The only thing that I would question is Rhys James, like we said, he came on in the last game. If he's fit and available, it'd be very hard for Thomas Tuchel not to play him at right back. And if he plays at right back, who does Thomas Tuchel leave out in the centre back partnership? Because both Gay and Stones were and have been excellent. So that's the decision he's got to make. and there's three positions in the team for me, right back and the two wingers, that will be up for contention, if you like. But I would think that he would play Konza at right back and Stones and Gay as a central defensive partnership because they do have to be defensively aware because this Argentina side are very, very good going forward.

12:59Well, I don't know if it was a clue because we did get to speak to Konza, Gay and Stones today. So whether that indicates that all three will be starting, but it is Mark Gay we're going to hear from next, the Manchester City central defender, who spoke to us about the prospect of playing against Argentina in a World Cup semi-final. The storyline's all set up, isn't it? So yeah, it's exciting, not just for everyone back home, but for us as well, and all I can say is everyone's looking forward to it. How's everyone after the exertions of playing in that heat in Miami? Everyone's good. Everyone's super good.

13:38We've stepped up recovery. made sure everyone's in the best conditions to possibly try and make history again. So, yes, we'll see what happens. You've obviously experienced being at the latter end of tournaments. When it gets this far into a tournament and there'll be eight matches to play here, how do you manage yourself at this stage? You could argue that you could manage yourself and there's times where you just have to go for it. And I think in moments like this, I think it's important that you find the balance between the two when you can manage yourself and when it's time to go for it. So I think this team has enough know-how and experience to do that in these moments.

14:20In the quarterfinal and into the semi-final, you're going from Erling Haaland to Lionel Messi. The challenge of playing against Lionel Messi? I mean, it's a completely different challenge, but equally as exciting. Arguably one of the best players that's ever played football. So I'm excited to play in this game, to play against him and the rest of Argentina, obviously, but we've got great players ourselves, so, you know, we'll be dangerous ourselves. How often does Pep Guardiola reference Messi? In the six months I was there, quite a few times, to be honest. In what setting? Just his mentality.

15:00His mentality, you know, for someone his age to be, you know, still at a World Cup and still doing the things that he's doing. so you just take things like that from his game and try and implement it in this game and I think as a team we've shown that a lot and hopefully we can carry on showing that. And I mean it is the ultimate challenge isn't it to take on the world champions? Yeah it's the ultimate challenge it's not the final challenge we hope but it's a big one and one that everyone's really looking forward to one that everyone's prepared for and you know hopefully things go our way. So that from Mark Gay and also John Stones, who is leaving Manchester City this summer, has obviously played alongside Mark Gay for Manchester City during the course of this season.

15:46And John Stones, who's been involved in all three of the semifinals that England have played in recent seasons. And I asked him to reflect on them. My first World Cup, a totally different scenario to what we're in right now. we were in such a different place as a nation, how we were viewed as a national team and we probably were not given much chance going into that tournament, maybe rightly so from previous tournaments. We wanted to change that and one of the things I'm so proud about, that tournament in particular was obviously getting to a semi-final but how we played throughout that, a lot of records that we broke and how we brought the love back to English football and how the whole country got behind us and then the next one in Qatar again such a a great tournament in how we started.

17:05I really believed that we could go all the way in that and find margins within that quarterfinal game that were cruel to us. That's football. But again, I would not have said or seen it as a backwards step from the previous one. And then, yeah, to here we are now in America, about to face Argentina, my first time facing those in another semifinal. A totally different pathway, if you want to put it that way, to get to this point with a tough first game with a lot of excitement, a lot of grit. Some difficult games, slower games that were harder to break down. the Azteca and then the other day where we were with all respect probably going into that game the favourites against a team that would deserve to be there and had some incredible quality that was a difficult game a lot of controversy within that I suppose and yeah here we are talking before another semi-final I'm extremely proud of to say that, to be a part of it, to give everyone back home that belief, the memories and it's about this time going one step further and yeah, try not to get ahead of ourselves.

18:46What will you take from the fact that you have won the last two semi-finals that you've played with England, albeit at the Euros, obviously Denmark and then that performance against Netherlands two years ago I mean it's been some run and one that's given us a lot of experience you have to go through those tough moments those experiences to know what to do in different scenarios and it's been a great path to get to where we are now I feel we're in a a lot more comfortable state, more experienced, more ready. And the biggest thing is the belief. Everyone who's within our circle and I'm sure back home believes that we can go and do this.

19:45That doesn't mean that these are an incredible team. They're obviously coming off the last World Cup as champions and yeah, we know what we're in for and it's exciting to have this challenge in front of us. And the whole time that you've been involved in the England set-up, Gareth Southgate used to talk about it a lot, doing things that have never been done before and that's exactly what you've got here, isn't it? The chance to win a semi-final on foreign soil. The England men's team have never done that before. Exactly, yeah.

20:20you've put it in a different way to what I was thinking but I think the message or the messages that Gareth started and took through his time as manager were principles and things that were so clear and at the forefront of our head that we can go out and do those things. And tomorrow's another stage for us to go and better ourselves, play even better football. You know, after the last game, we felt that we've still got more to give, which is exciting in my eyes. Go out and be ourselves. Go out there and do everyone proud. And, yeah, like you said, we've won the last two semifinals as a team. It doesn't matter what competition that's in.

21:13and that's confidence in itself. So John Stone's there. What about further forward, Paul? What do you think we're going to see? I mean, there are a lot of options and I know speaking to colleagues today, there was thought that Morgan Rogers might get a place in the starting line-up. There was even talk that Marcus Rashford might come in on the left, play Gordon on the right. Or there is the option, obviously, of Madweke and Saka. But I think that's the interesting area, isn't it? who's going to play on the right going forward? I did have a look at our BBC website today and your starting 11 for England and you had Morgan Rodgers in there, didn't you, on the right-hand side?

21:52I think if he plays on the right-hand side, you'd be interested to see how he migrates in field, if you like, because him and Jude Bellingwood would generally tend to take up the same kind of spaces. He's not an out-and-out winger, but that's the one area or the two areas that Thomas Tuchel, he's chopped and changed throughout the whole tournament. you look at the wide players, Marcus Rashford we didn't see him in the last game, didn't come off the bench when he made the attacking changes that he made, wondered why we didn't see Marcus Rashford, is he fully fit, Saka, is he fully fit, I thought he was excellent in fits and starts in the Norway game but he wasn't active the whole time that he was on the field, he changed both wide players at half time for whatever reason it was, but a tactic that England use is Harry Kane dropping deep into that number 10 role and then the wide players getting very wide and extremely high in behind Harry Kane.

22:44And the long crossfield ball to Madueke was used a lot in the first half. And that's clearly a tactic that England use. But I don't think there's a relationship growing between the fullbacks and the wide players because it's been changed so often. And are you fully expecting Declan Rice to start this? You know that he'd obviously struggled with the illness that he had and then playing in the heat of Miami. Johnny has to play. I mean if he's 90 % fit if he's 85 % fit he has to play this is not a game where the manager can rest players because of a potential final, this is a game that England have to win, it's a massive game and Declan Rice is a huge part of the team he's very very important to what they do we know Thomas Tuchel's system, he'll play that 4-2-3-1 and Elliot Anderson and Declan Rice have become absolutely paramount to what England do Declan Rice both defensively, offensively and with set players as well he is very, very much a figurehead in the England team.

23:40If he's anywhere near fit, he has to risk him. But it is a tremendous prospect. I mean, as I say, you've played in these. I've never commentated on England against Argentina. I can't wait. Have you got a gut feeling? Yeah, we're going to do this. Without a doubt, we're going to do this because we did the Argentina-Egypt game, didn't we? We saw Argentina that were 2-0 down after 79 minutes. and if it wasn't for that little genius called Messi, they would have been out of this World Cup by now and England would have been playing Switzerland. So I've just got a really strong feeling that England, I worry what Miami has taken out of them because of the heat and the fatigue, but let's not forget that Cape Verde took Argentina to a two-hour game.

24:23They had extra time in their last game as well and they're an aging squad. I think 17 of their players were in the last 2022 Qatar World Cup. so I think this is a game that England can win Spain are going to be a difficult proposition in the final if we get there without being presumptuous but I've got a really good feeling Paul Robinson, thank you very much look forward to sitting alongside you in the stadium in Atlanta so the World Cup semi-final England against Argentina watch it on BBC One listen with us on Five Live or via BBC Sounds it's an 8pm kick-off BST in the UK and it's a match that has a monumental feel to it and could well be another gripping, dramatic night with England involved at this World Cup The 2023 Ballon d 'Or France footballer is Lionel Messi The winner is Cristiano Ronaldo This is the story of the greatest rivalry in the history of sport, a rivalry that split football into two fates for a generation.

25:33There could be no, oh, Messi and Ronaldo are both great players. There had to be one that was better. They 100 million percent pushed each other to the next level. You know, we were the lucky ones who got to see it. I'm Steve Crossman. This is Sporting Giants Messi v. Ronaldo. Listen first on BBC Sounds. The United States is about to mark its 250th anniversary. And so on the Global Story podcast from the BBC, we're telling surprising tales of American influence on the world stage and in ordinary people's lives all across the globe. We have this ability to export our story and a lot of people have bought it.

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