A bruising game at Stamford Bridge and Manchester City leave it late – Football Weekly

28:29You mentioned it, Barry. He's passed away at the age of 79. His family released a statement through the club. Dad loved West Ham United and its wonderful supporters with all his heart. Treasured every moment of his time at the club. We take comfort knowing that his legacy will live on forever. Jonathan Wilson wrote a piece about him. He said, for those of us whose football consciousness was formed in the early 80s, he seemed not only an eternal feature of West Ham, but the archetype of a certain sort of English player, as comfortable in midfield as at the back, uncompromising but also good on the ball, forever rolling his sleeves up and pointing.

28:59And he said, where Trevor Brookings could have strolled through the Somme without dirting his shorts, Bond seemed forever caked in mud, socks rolled down, teeth and eyes glinting through a fog of sweat and beard. Barney, you saw him play. I'm just really glad to hear Wilson referring to the Somme finally. You must always refer to the First World War. I saw him play. in the mid to late 80s, towards the end of his career. And I remember him. He was a really striking figure. He was one of these hard men, warrior kind of midfielders, but he was also really skillful. He moved really well. He had this kind of really imposing physicality, as you'd expect, almost 800 games for one team, still playing at 41 in the top tier.

29:46So he's better than Ronaldo. And probably didn't he? I read this thing about Ronaldo the other day that he, someone went for dinner with him and he, for dessert, he had another serving of plain chicken. He has plain chicken breasts for dessert. Now Billy Bonds probably, probably didn't have that, but he is a club legend of a kind that doesn't really happen anymore. Someone who just, like Wilson said, seems completely connected to the club. These are fixed points. He used to have players like this who were just really good. Didn't leave, didn't necessarily have to play for England. West Ham had quite a lot of them.

30:17I mean, Alan Devonshire used to get the tube to the games and you sort of still felt like a fixed point in the community. He's also a type of man that I remember there being a lot of. He's kind of from the place where he's from, I think, Woolwich and he was in Elton for a while, southeast Londoner. There used to be a lot of blokes like that around, like his hair nominally kind of long, pub rock sort of look, but also neat and sort of quite not exactly roguish but also quite conservative and old school clean cut there used to be a lot of blokes like that around sort of mischievous but also total club servant eternal kind of geezer bloke he's a very reassuring figure you just liked him you respected him the fact that he played for so long obviously really there's some pictures of him doing weights going around on the internet he had an incredible physique and was obviously in that sense a kind of perfect professional and you could see the the link with him it's nice to see Potts playing for West Ham son of whose father would have played with Billy Bonds and fans really feel a connection to that I wondered if this might be a good moment for West Ham to start a kind of scheme in his memory where fans could possibly invest in the club even acquire a kind of fan share by effectively loaning money to the club, buying into the club in his name, a kind of financial instrument.

31:40And I had an idea of what you could call these financial instruments that fans buy. You could call them Billy Gilts. Billy Gilts. Yeah. Sorry, it's too soon, isn't it? Oh, really good. Yeah, okay. He made 799 appearances for West Ham. Only played to captain them to two FA Cup victories, 75 and 80. 21 years there. and manage them as well from 1990 to 1994. Our thoughts, of course, with his friends and family. To Tottenham, Spurs 1, Fulham 2. Fulham's first away win of the season. Hello, Dr. Tottenham. An amazing, Dan, opening to this game. Fulham 2-0 up after six minutes. And before the Spurs inquest, it is worth talking about how brilliant that Harry Wilson goal is because as soon as he realises the opportunity, he sort of moves.

32:27He creates the space for himself, gets a perfect pass, and the finish is such a delight. It's helped by Udagi falling over slightly. I mean, he had a disastrous first eight minutes, didn't he, Destiny Udagi. But Harry Wilson strikes me as a player who probably had a difficult start to his career. And I think lots of players who come through the bigger academies and have a taste of it and then have to move down, they almost struggle to find themselves. I think he must be 28, 29 now, Harry Wilson. He's turned into a really, really good wide player in the Premier League. Lots of goals, obviously done it on the international stage.

32:59for Wales as well but I think players that that come through the academy often take longer to find themselves that come through those big academies and now I just feel he's a player that's fully comfortable with himself he knows what he is he's full of confidence he's not trying to trying to prove anything and that goal kind of just sums him up as a player for me and Fulham started that game like a house on fire and really it could have been more at half time oh yeah Mike says on that goal is the match of the day arrow to show where Vicario could have put the ball out for a throw against Fulham, the funniest use of the graphic ever.

33:31I think the arrow might have been better pointing at Pedro Poro or Kevin Danso, neither of whom saw fit to see this entirely vacated goal behind them and get back to stand on the line and try and block any shot that might mean. But I think, and I could be wrong, but I think it didn't even cross their mind that Harry Wilson would try and score from there. I did notice in the commentary that the commentator said, King puts it on a plate for Wilson. I mean, he passed it to his feet, but he made it sound like Wilson couldn't possibly miss this sitter into a gaping goal from the touchline. It was a brilliant finish.

34:18I think the brilliance of the finish has been somewhat overshadowed by the slapstick nature of what went before it. Yeah, I think you're right. I mean, look, three times they've won at home in the league in 2025, Barney. So, as Mark Langdon said the other day, they spend so much money. So, they're booing and they booed Vicario after that moment. And Thomas Frank afterwards said, you know, it's okay they're frustrated because we haven't won a game at home for a long time. We all badly want to win. I'm fine with them booing after the game. During the game, I hope it was one incident and it never happens again.

34:50I agree with him. And he said there can't be true Tottenham fans that do that. Fair enough booing after the game, no problem. But if you've only been at the club for as long as Thomas Frank has and it's not going well, I would just avoid criticising the fans, even if he's right. Well, he has been a football manager for quite a long time. And I think at any level, booing your own goalkeeper during a game is not very helpful, is it? He's made a mistake. He's not deliberately done that. but I agree that the relationship is not good there it's one of a Thomas Frank's a good manager you know but it just the way he plays is very um you know here is a lump of football it's kind of very technocratic um it's not it's not necessarily it really worked Brentford you got these amazing moments through the structure that he imposed um but it did take a while for it to work there as well and I just feel like they're it's one of those things that they've just had a look at him quite a lot of Spurs fans and said no that's not for us which I think is a shame but I do understand it as well what I don't understand about Tottenham is it's like what what do you want to happen like they've got this amazing stadium that's a really good thing and it will really benefit the club although there are obviously commercial pressures around that but what time I'm going to win the league Thomas Frank's not going to create a beautiful spectacle in the way that club sees itself I just think everyone there should be thinking this is great I can I can just take I can just have a breath here and enjoy this and I think it was a weird a weird appointment because that's not that's not where everyone is in their life it's like Tottenham are kind of close to the fans just want a bit of fun really and that's really not happening and maybe you're hardwired into wanting managers to go and wanting more.

36:38It's very hard to finish in the top four this year, even the top five, because there are some good teams there. It just feels like there needs to be a narrative and something to talk about there. And that is going to be the ill-fitting nature of Frank and his football. Yeah, and it isn't fun, Dan. I mean, look, they had an XG just before half time of 0.01. At recent games, they've been at 0.03 and 0.02. As producer Joel says, they're on a crusade to push XG. to places it's never been before, like an art installation. I agree with Barney. I think he is a good manager. And it's mad to talk of him going.

37:12But already, you know, the noise is there. Yeah, it feels like the masses have decided they don't like him. They don't want him. This isn't going to be a good fit for Tottenham. What I would say is this is largely a squad that finished 17th last year and played some god-awful football last year. although I will say in the first half, it did look like Ange had returned the way they were defending. It did feel like Posta Coglu had gone back in and nobody had informed me about it. In some ways, it was never going to be turned overnight. I think the fact they won the Europa League and are actually playing Champions League football has maybe skewed Tottenham fans' own perspective on their club because they're playing in the elite competition.

37:54It maybe makes them feel that they should be better than they are, but they finished 17th and it feels a little bit delusional at the moment to think that it wasn't going to be hard. I think because Thomas Frank's losing his home games and the bulk of their points have been picked up away, if it was the other way around, they'd maybe be a little bit more forgiving. I guess Frank's maybe paying for almost the price of football at the moment, that people are paying a lot of money to go to Tottenham every single week in that lovely new stadium and they expect better. But I think it was always going to be tough.

38:26He was never going to be able to turn around what happened last season overnight. Yeah, he's missing a lot of creativity. Ange Ackerlites will say Ange quite often had no Romero or Van der Ven. He didn't have Romero on Saturday, but he's had a fit defence. They were good at the start of the season, but now they're shipping a lot of goals. Anyway, terrible news for Spurs. They go to Newcastle on Tuesday, where they're off an 8-0 down after five minutes. Absolutely terrifying. Newcastle won 4-1 at Everton. Newcastle fans saying, how bad must you be? We're winning away. Their first away win of the season.

39:01Their first in seven months. I was fed up of it, says Eddie Howe. That's why I'm so pleased the players gave me the opportunity to come here and not talk about it as much. And there may be more important things, Barry, but another glorious goal from the Voltemada vault of beautiful goals. A nought miles an hour dink. I absolutely loved it. Yeah, it was a lovely finish. to capitalise on some awful defensive play. I think everything got away with Idris El-Gay getting sent off against Manchester United, but they really missed him here because Timo Ruggunum came in and had an absolute shocker. He allowed Anthony Lange to be far too easily down the right.

39:42Lange plays the ball inside for Volta Meda, who just lifts this beautifully delicate lift over the oncoming pick for his head. Really lovely finish. Everton were really bad in the first half. He were shockingly bad. So Newcastle brought in Lewis Hall, Tino Livermento, Dan Byrne was back in his rightful place at the heart of defence. And a much-needed away win for Newcastle. And Everton really did miss Gay in this game, I think. Yeah, and Ramsdale, Pope was injured, but Ramsdale came in. We were talking about that last week, about whether he might come in anyway. And actually, Barney, it's true, Liv Rimento and Hall make such a difference at fullback.

40:24Yeah, the uplift from having those two fullbacks one week and Dan Byrne playing fullback another week. And Dan Byrne, a very honest player, but he is 14 foot tall and 34 years old. He cannot be chasing these tiny little, extremely quick, jinky wingers around. It's not fair. It's beneath his dignity. But I think Liv Rimento is such a good player. he's such a good fullback on both sides and it's actually really important for England that he's back because England do like the O 'Reilly is good he's a really good player I don't know if and no one knows if he's ready to be a defender in an international tournament yet he doesn't I think Leverimento is a brilliant fullback possibly frees up Rhys James to play in midfield if Tuchel wanted to do that or to play in the centre because I think Rhys James is one of England's best players and Liveramento's a brilliant fullback.

41:19Really, one of those fullbacks where they go into strange positions, they move inside and it always feels like a problem for the other team, not for them because they're just so confident and so good on the ball and so mobile that there's never a sense, oh, there might be space behind this guy. It's always the other way, like, oh dear, this is an overload wherever this player is because he's so good on the ball. So I'm really glad to see him back and fit and I hope he can stay fit. All right, that'll do for part two. Part three will begin at Selhurst Park.

41:54Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly. Palace 1, Man United 2. What did you make of this one, Dan? Yeah, at half-time, didn't see a Manchester United come back on the cards at all. They've got the bulk of their attacking talent that they bought in the summer. Missing Selhurst Park is a really, really difficult place to go. It's an even more difficult place to go when you're 1-0 down. And for them to come back, I think that they deserve huge credit to unusual goals, but to very, very well taken goals in a weekend when actually there was lots of interesting things happening and there was lots of good goals.

42:26But the Xerxes one in particular was one of the strangest goals I think I've ever seen. And first goal for a year as well for him. So it's a credit to him. It's a great finish. I think Dean Henderson might be a little bit disappointed, but it's still a great finish. And I thought Manchester United were, you know, they obviously had that period where they won a few games in a row and then it had been a few games without winning that's a huge result at Selhurst Park because Crystal Palace's home record is phenomenal everyone Barry made a point of how tired Palace were in the second half Amrim said it Glasner mentioned it obviously Palace played on Thursday lost in Strasbourg in the Conference League and Man United have no European football which you know should help them and Oliver Glasner basically had another pop and it's not the first time at ownership he said if you play European football for the first time in history you should invest and not save we're doing well we're still in a good position in the league and in all four competitions i think january is too late we'll have played more than 50 of our games i don't know is he saying i'm leaving or is he saying is he keeping his options open what's glasner doing here apart or maybe he's just very honest saying we haven't spent enough and we lost some players in the summer oh well i would imagine his options are always open i didn't hear that interview but it's a matter of fact that palace's record after conference league games is poor they've played six uh sundays after conference league game they've lost three drawn two and only won one and that was early in the season he did one amazing zipping his mouth gesture i don't know if you saw that but it was incredibly i know he was brilliant he did like as though he was zipping up his mouth like someone on Sesame Street or the Muppets but he did it or rainbow or rainbow yeah possibly rainbow zippy you know you can take your choice on that but it was incredibly well done it was as though he'd done it hundreds of times as well he's someone who's used to doing that gesture and and it was a very aggressive interview as well it was really like I don't care what you say here or what you do I'm going to say what I think it was a manager looking after his legacy a bit, which I thought was, hmm, that's interesting.

44:37Feisty, feisty from Glasner. I mean, there was a suggestion during the summer that he'd threaten to leave if they sold Gay to Liverpool, so Gay wasn't sold. I'll be honest, I wouldn't give United a huge amount of credit for this game. I think Palace threw it away. They missed loads of chances in the first half. They should have been more than 1-0 up at the break. and the winner they conceded was shocking, like a free, well, not the free kick, the ball was rolled to Mount and he just fired it through the defensive wall. That was terrible defending. While United, they did win, I think Palace really gifted them the three points.

45:16Mateta's brilliant, but he has missed a lot of big chances so far. Every time I've watched Palace, he could have had three or four goals and he's putting the ball in the back of the net in general, but he's missing a host of big chances. said i wouldn't know what his xg is but i imagine it's higher than the amount he scored well who was it he scored a hat trick bournemouth he should have six or seven yeah yeah he missed a banker in that game as well didn't yeah i'd like the idea he did score a double hit penalty our first ever we see exciting to see that um and the idea that you know at crystal palace training ground people go up to oliver glasner to ask him questions and he just goes zip it zip zip he's just constantly because he's just he's so good at it can i also just say when people say sell her spark is a difficult place to go um it is a difficult place to go because of it is because of that there's an old advice don't go to crystal palace go to sell her crystal palace is not where it is i think that advice is out of date and you should go to crystal palace because it's now on the windrush line and you simply walk 15 minutes from there so do go to crystal palace don't try and go to sell her there's a lot more trains on the Windrush.

46:19I think that's the kind of advice that a football iconoclast, like a new thinker, like maybe a Thomas Frank, would just sweep that advice away. Do go to Crystal Palace. It becomes a much easier place to go to. A lot of people who don't live in South London won't have a clue what you're talking about, Barony. I would just say that. Well, they will if they travel to watch their team and they have followed that advice and found it's still hard to go there. It's interesting people haven't really viewed those overground lines well enough. I understand this because young Ian is obsessed with the tube.

46:53They've remodelled them, you know, the Windrush and the Weaver line and the Mile Bay, to make them feel like tube stops and tube stations. And now everyone on them goes to them because before they were like, oh, I couldn't possibly get a train. Got to get the tube. It's very interesting stuff. I'm glad the voting for the FSA Awards has already closed. Sutherland 3, Bournemouth 2. perhaps harsh on Sunderland to be this far down the running order perhaps harsh Barry for this Sunderland win to be below public transport London TFL chat as well um but what a brilliant I mean both teams are really good it was a really good game Tyler Adams goal is brilliant and you know it could have been any result I guess but what a comeback from your lot yeah it was a really good win uh the second game in a row that Sunderland's players have had to play in absolute Oh, and Bournemouth's indeed.

47:43Torrential rain from start to finish. Really entertaining spectacle. Sunderland gave away two cheap goals by gift and possession to Bournemouth. Tyler Adams was the pick of the game, obviously, spotting Robin Ruffes off his line and channelling his inner Kenny McLean to score. Just a brilliant, brilliant goal to put Bournemouth two up. I didn't give Sunderland much of a chance of coming back, to be honest. But Granit Xhaka was excellent. Enzo Le Fay is a brilliant player, a brilliant young player in Sunderland's midfield. Sunderland got back into it, went ahead. And then it got very, very bad-tempered towards the end.

48:30Bormitt's players were getting very narky at having been pegged back and overtaken. And after the game, I like Anthony Riola. I have to say I'm a big fan of his. But he accused the ref afterwards of having lost control of the game. I would very much argue that Bournemouth's players lost control of the game and indeed themselves. And that may have contributed to their defeat. But, yeah, I am reminded of my constantly bleak prognosis last season where I kept saying I didn't want Sunderland to get promoted because I didn't want them to have a Southampton or a Leicester of a season and just get beaten week in and week out.

49:10But what a great addition to the Premier League they have been with those players they've brought in who have all hit the ground running. Yeah, they were great. Xhaka was so, once you were 3-2 up, he was excellent as well, wasn't he? I think on Iriola, Dan, it's a bit like EFL managers who just, when they lose, say, well, look, the opposition, they knock it long and they're very direct and there's nothing you can do to that. that sort of classic patronising I feel sorry for the ref because it's really hard to ref in this atmosphere you know once you say you've lost control it is just come on I mean Lewis Cook did elbow a guy in the face that is probably a red card isn't it?

49:46Yeah I would say elbowing someone in the face is stereotypically a red card offence I think Bournemouth got swept up in the kind of atmosphere in the raucousness if that's a word of the stadium of light really and in the end they got chewed up and spat out As soon as Sunderland got a goal back, they were just on it, weren't they? You just felt they were going to go on and get something out of this game. Bournemouth have been kind of battered a few times recently or lost games quite comfortably recently. So, Iriola's a brilliant manager and they got off to a brilliant start, but they're certainly struggling at the moment, Bournemouth.

50:20It's not like the feel-good of the start of the season and Iriola does seem a bit tetchy right now. Only five promoted sides have ever had more points than Sunderland after 13 games. the best priority side since Wigan 05-06. And look what happened to them. Yeah, exactly. Well, they have, I think they've got to go to Anfield midweek, then City at home, I think, and then Newcastle at home. So that's three big games coming up. And then their entire squad goes to AFCON. Yeah, Sunderland are actually in AFCON. They've got a good chance of winning AFCON, haven't they? Sunderland. A couple more games to get through.

50:57three more games in fact to get through Brentford three Burnley one a game Barney which came alive after 80 minutes I mean Brentford are really they're a fascinating story aren't they I kind of I've really enjoyed watching them this season I love watching I mean Igor Thiago who basically spent I think the best part of a year injured and is now just showing how many brilliant footballers that are out there waiting for a chance in this league. He's always made me think of Ivan Toni. He kind of is, if you put the words Ivan Toni through like a Slavic Portuguese translator app, you would get the words Igor Tiago.

51:38It's like they've made a new Ivan Toni. He's kind of a similar player as well. He's strong. He's really quick. He's a really good finisher. And I think he's going to end up with almost, at this rate almost 20 goals in the Premier League which is an amazing story for him and he always says does that celebration which says it's not me it's God which I hope he will bear in mind when the massive money transfer deal to move to Spurs or and or similar comes in at the end of the season it's not you it's God. 11 goals in 13 second behind Erling Haaland you know he's sort of one of a lot of Brazilian number nines who all want to be number nine at the World Cup but I heard Tim Vickery saying, you know, Brazil, the Brazil, you know, there's a snobbishness about if you're playing for Brentford, that's not good enough for us.

52:27He hasn't actually played for Brazil yet. Not yet. Not yet. But he's keen to. He must be in the running. Well, he needs to get ahead of Richarlison. That is your task, should you choose to accept it, is to appear at least as good as Richarlison, which he may. The snobs are happy with Richarlison, surprisingly. Villa 1, Wolves 0. You were there, Dan. Talk us through it. Yeah, it was a harder game than I thought it was going to be at the start of the day. I think Wolves deserve some credit and Rob Edwards deserve some credit for the way they set up. And probably some points. Probably some points.

52:58I mean, they need some points. Although I thought Wolves set up well and made it difficult for Villa and were perhaps unlucky not to score and go ahead, I did always feel that Villa would have enough to win the game. Villa seem to be having their own mini goal of the season competition going on at the moment. I think 57 % of their goals have come from outside the box, which people keep saying isn't sustainable, but it keeps happening every single week. It's a bit like Guardiola to jump that high from a standing start. There's no way to get that much power on that strike. I mean, it's only his second Premier League goal for the club as well, Berbicac and Mara.

53:32They both come on his wrong foot. I suggest he should shoot on his wrong foot a little bit more. Villa are just so good at home. I think we've lost about two games in 60 at Villa Park in the league or something ridiculous. Going to Villa Park, I said Selhurst Park was a tough place to go. Villa Park's an even tougher place to go. And Unai Emery deserves a huge amount of credit because at the end of August, we couldn't even get a shot on target. And since the transfer window shut, I think we've only lost one Premier League game. So the fact that he's turned this round and got Villa to fourth on the 1st of December, I would never, ever have seen that coming at the end of August.

54:09He's just a tremendous football manager. We're so lucky to have him. long may it continue and yeah brilliant you know always nice to to be Wolverhampton Wanderers just on Villa Park being a difficult place to go yeah I would say don't go to Whitton that's a mistake get the number 17 bus which goes directly from one of the uh new street exits and that will take you straight there around the back okay is that good advice Dan I have to take my dad so getting on public transport is a complete no-go for us at the moment we have to we have to park in a disabled which is still quite a walk away from the ground actually but Barney is the Premier League travel man who am I to argue with his advice How would you get to the city ground Barney?

54:54I would walk down over the river it's lovely Nottingham's a lovely city just enjoy being there it's beautiful That's what Brighton did and they won 2-0 20 seconds of thoughts on this Barry with apologies to Brighton and Forest fans Well I think it moves Brighton up to 5th, 4th, 5th, which is, I had very high hopes for them to start the season. It looked like they were going to let me down, but they seemed to have found their mojo. Carlos Beliba was dropped for this game. He had his head turned during the summer and really hasn't been playing well this season. So Herzler finally took the decision to drop him.

55:32Two good goals, Maxim de Kuyper and that young Greek chap, Stefanos Simas. I think he scored his first goal for Brighton. It was a bit of a gift. That was one that was on a plate for him. He just had to roll the ball into an empty goal. I think Brighton probably would have got a penalty if he hadn't scored it anyway. And a good win for them and a very poor performance from Forrest. and Sean Dyche wasn't particularly impressed with his side afterwards, I think. Some excellent advantage from the referee. It reminds me, if I can't remember who it was, who was the ref who did a great advantage and then ran off celebrating with his arms out?

56:15Mike Dean. He was against my team as well. Mike Dean. Tottenham Villa. It's one of the best things you'll ever see. He runs off. He's running off like Tardelli, isn't he? It's absolutely sensational. Ed finally says, how many additions does Barney think Millwall will need in time for their opening day in the Premier League next season. Third in the Championship and injury time winner over Southampton, Barney. Yeah, it's confusing. It's confusing because they're winning. Normally it's a struggle. It's ugly. It involves punting the ball forward towards Jake Cooper, but they're actually good, which is confusing and know how to control games and have good players.

56:50Aziz is on a brilliant run at the moment. I mean, they're really good and the Den is a powerful force. I think it would be really fun to see them in the Premier League. I know what happened with the club, I've always felt it's on the verge of being sold to the most evil oligarch that can be found. Somewhere they'll find him. They're scouring the planet. Who have we got here? Is there anyone who's involved in arms and oil? Because you can now redevelop that site and it's kind of a bit of London that someone could throw loads of money into and do stuff to, which I don't want them to do. There's a part of me that fears promotion from that respect.

57:29I quite like how things are. But, yeah, the goals were great as well, really good goals. When Villa were in the Championship, the Den was my favourite away ground due to the fact that it was the Dragon's Lair on Dreamton. Is that right, of course. I used to love going there for that reason alone. You mean London Bridge and then sort of pretty straightforward from there, I would suggest, Barney. But anyway, that'll do for today. Thanks, everybody. Thank you, Dan. Thank you very much. Loved it. Thank you, Barney. cheers everyone did you love it like Dan said he did I mean we can we can talk about this after the you know complex feelings Max they're complex save it for the debrief thank you Barry thank you Football Weekly is produced by Joel Grove our executive producer is Danielle Stevens we'll be back on Wednesday

58:18this is The Guardian