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In short
Champions League semi-final first leg review (Atletico Madrid 1-1 Arsenal) plus Premier League, EFL, and other European match previews; heavy focus on VAR/handball/penalty decisions and title/relegation implications.
Guests (panel)
Barry Glendinning (football writer/presenter), Max Rushden (presenter), Nicky Bandini (journalist), Lyle Civinson (panelist), Lars Sivertsen (panelist). They debate refereeing consistency, Arsenal’s fatigue, and weekend fixture stakes.
Guest backgrounds
Bandini is a long-time football journalist; Glendinning and Rushden are Guardian/football media figures; Civinson and Sivertsen are regular Football Weekly panel contributors.
Key claims
Arsenal’s result is “good” despite controversial penalties; UEFA-style refereeing is more consistent than the Premier League; Atletico’s Simeone made key halftime adjustments; Arsenal are tired and may rotate; Fulham visit is a must-win; VAR overturns are rare and controversial.
Notable examples
Raya saves from Julian Alvarez; Håkan Håkan? (Häncko) gives away penalties; handball/penalty debates involving Eze and Luckman; Atletico crest incident with Ben White; Italy refereeing scandal (Rocchi/Gervazzani) and Udinese–Parma VAR protocol.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOMatch Overview: Arsenal vs Atletico
0:45 to 1:48
Discussion on the recent match between Arsenal and Atletico Madrid, highlighting the tense and controversial moments.
“weren't going to give us PSG Bayern but they gave us a different kind of entertaining.”
Tension and Drama in the Game
1:48 to 2:24
Exploration of the tension and drama present in the Arsenal vs Atletico match, and comparisons to other games.
Game Strategies and Managerial Changes
2:24 to 4:08
Analysis of the tactical adjustments made by both teams and their impact on the match.
“I mean, really right from the start, obviously Julian Alvarez gets that save out of David Raya early.”
Penalty Decisions and Controversies
4:08 to 6:10
In-depth discussion about the controversial penalty decisions that influenced the match outcome.
“in their biggest game of the season, the football equivalent of Michael Corleone having Fredo killed at the end of Godfather Part 2.”
Referee Insights and VAR Application
6:10 to 8:34
Insights into how referees make decisions and the impact of VAR on the game.
“He won that penalty, no problem with that being given at all, and he struck it.”
The Future of Penalty Decisions
8:34 to 10:35
Discussion on the implications of current penalty rules and potential future changes needed for fair play.
“But no, the only thing I'd give the UEFA standard of refereeing is that at least they are consistent on this.”
VAR Decisions and Referee Challenges
14:01 to 15:35
Explore the complexities of VAR and referee challenges in football.
“So I suppose just worth reminding ourselves that football games are 90 minutes and have moments, don't they?”
Simeone vs. Arteta: Coaching Styles
15:36 to 17:26
Discuss the contrasting coaching styles of Simeone and Arteta in football.
“I mean, it was Barry, a sort of vintage Simeone performance, wasn't it?”
The Importance of Moments in Football
17:27 to 19:15
Reflect on how moments can define a football match and its outcomes.
“Built a house of cards just inside my front door once and someone came in and knocked it over.”
Concentration of Talent in Modern Football
19:16 to 21:12
Analyze the increasing concentration of talent among elite football clubs.
“So it turns out I had the exact same reaction as Jonathan Wilson, which of course has led me to do quite a lot of soul-searching in the hours that followed.”
Show all 22 chapters
Finding Joy in Football
21:13 to 23:08
Discover the importance of appreciating the joy in football amidst its challenges.
“Listening to great music of, it's a, you know, a disgraced musician, etc.”
Previewing Upcoming Matches
23:09 to 23:44
Get insights on upcoming Europa League and Premier League matches.
“was listening and sent me a voice note singing In the Air Tonight by Phil Collins.”
Arsenal and Fulham Match Analysis
23:45 to 28:03
Discuss Arsenal's upcoming match against Fulham and their current form.
“Arsenal play Fulham on Saturday at 5.30 with Man City going to Everton on Monday.”
City and Arsenal's Challenging Run-In
28:03 to 30:03
The challenges both City and Arsenal face in their remaining matches are discussed.
“I thought they played very well against Manchester United, just couldn't put away enough chances to beat them.”
Brentford's Vulnerability
30:03 to 31:15
The discussion delves into Brentford's current performance and the implications for West Ham.
“I'd be that fussed about playing in the Europa Conference League.”
Aston Villa's Recent Form
31:15 to 32:55
Analysis of Aston Villa's performance and their upcoming game against Spurs.
“It would be lovely to see him out on the pitch again before the end of the season.”
Pressure on Newcastle and Upcoming Matches
32:55 to 34:45
Newcastle's situation is examined, including pressure from recent performances and upcoming fixtures.
“I think it's the same bit for Tottenham, isn't it?”
Saudi Influence on Football and Snooker
34:45 to 36:43
Discussion revolves around Saudi Arabia's impact on sports, particularly football and snooker.
“is that football is still something they really care about and they have the World Cup in 2034 and so owning a Premier League side is good but like it's interesting.”
Refereeing Scandal in Italian Football
36:43 to 42:00
An investigation into refereeing practices in Italy and its historical context is explored.
“Is this because this sort of Saudi Arabian tournament, or is that just how snooker players look?”
Refereeing Controversies and Investigations
42:00 to 42:51
Discussion on the current investigation into refereeing practices and protocols.
“because you can see him mouthing his penalty.”
Listener Email: Wedding Advice Request
42:51 to 44:15
A listener shares their journey as a Scottish Arsenal fan and requests marriage advice.
“So go and read Nikki's column, as you always should, of course.”
Reflections on Weddings and Ageing
44:15 to 45:41
The hosts reflect on weddings, personal anecdotes, and the passage of time.
“if uh sasha is to keep up his record of having listened to uh every single episode since 2010 or whatever he's he's going to be have a lot to listen to during the world cup i reckon but yeah I wish them every happiness.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Max Rushden:This is The Guardian.
0:30Nicky Bandini:talk about it on Monday for a bit I imagine. This pod instead begins with the greatest game of all time. Atleti won, Arsenal won. Here it is. Thanks for listening, watching etc. Hello and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly. All square then in Madrid, Atleti and Arsenal weren't going to give us PSG Bayern but they gave us a different kind of entertaining. It was tense and it was controversial and Arteta and Simeone probably covered more ground than anyone else on the pitch. It's impossible not to talk about VAR or handball here so apologies in advance but get ready to tick off all your favourite phrases.
1:00Nicky Bandini:Natural position, 80 % chance of scoring a goal, clear and obvious. I'm boring myself and we haven't even introduced the panel. But a good result for Arsenal, who can go back to stressing about the title race at the weekend. Home to Fulham, while Man City have to wait until Monday to go to Everton. Then there's the relegation, dogfight, West Ham at Everton on Saturday. All new injury problems, Spurs at Villa on Sunday. If they both win, big if, they could drag some others into it. Then there's the EFL permutations, Madrid's four-year ban. Your questions, and that's today's Guardian Football Weekly.
1:30Nicky Bandini:on the panel today barry glendennig welcome hi max hello nicky bandini morning good morning lyle civinson hello max let's start at uh the wonder metropolitano spice says how about some var chat for a change and he says there were more shots in the atleti arsenal match than psg but i guess that doesn't suit certain narratives does it i think i think andy is trying to make the case that this was a better game and it wasn't a better game but Nicky with a dog in the fight I mean there was real tension and there was real drama in this game still yeah I think it's really interesting I think if you put this game as it was the night after PSG Bayern of course you go it wasn't that wasn't as good as that one if you put it next to Arsenal Newcastle you think wow what a great game of football so it's all about where you draw your contrast isn't it PSG Bayern was was spectacular brilliant loved every second of it and i think this was a different kind of game completely and and we can't expect every game to hit that bar of best game you've seen all year but i thought this was a game that was interesting and worthy of a champions league semi-final i thought i thought two teams that ebbed and flowed at different points the game had the upper hand two teams that both definitely had ideas about how they were going to try to win this time two teams that were perhaps weakest in the finishing department and perhaps without the penalties, we would have ended up with a nil-nil and we would have had a different perspective on it.
2:58But they both created chances. I mean, really right from the start, obviously Julian Alvarez gets that save out of David Raya early. But I thought Arsenal did well in the first half. I thought, again, really early on, you had Maduweki standing up that cross to the back post that you had two players both running out that didn't quite go right. But I thought they were creating chances early on. I thought they had managed to do something that was really important by pushing the two fullbacks really, really high up. In the first half, they really neutered that threat that Atletico can bring with their runners in transition.
3:30We barely saw Adam and Elukman in the first half and you had Simeone being forced to drop back and he ends up coming off at halftime. And that was, I think, a really important change by Atletico. And Atletico responded, which was nice. I like that back and forth when you see that between managers and they go, okay, that didn't work for us in the first half and we'll do something different. And then Atletico, I thought were really, really good for the first half and hour of the second half. So yeah, I enjoyed it. I thought it was an interesting back and forth. And I think that it's a shame that we will ultimately have to talk a lot about penalty decisions because they did, of course, decide how the game ends up.
4:05Nicky Bandini:Yeah, I mean, just on that change for Atleti, John says it's Simeone's decision to take his own son off at half time in their biggest game of the season, the football equivalent of Michael Corleone having Fredo killed at the end of Godfather Part 2. But it did change things, didn't it? It felt to me like Arsenal had that sort of Arsenal-y control in the first half, and then Atleti were a lot better until perhaps more Eze than Saka, but both of them came on, and then Arsenal sort of got a bit of control back.
4:30Lars Sivertsen:I feel like Fredo Corleone was always kind of a waste man, but Giuliano Simeone was obviously the key player in the tie against Barcelona, so he kind of came into this encounter with some merit. But yeah, clearly that was a change that helped quite a lot. I also just wonder if... Do you remember if just getting the penalty against, which I don't think that one was controversial really, that was kind of clumsy from Hanchko, but I wonder if that fired them up a little bit because they just seemed to be a little bit more honest at the start of the second half. They were more like what you expect from Atletico Madrid in the second half.
5:04Lars Sivertsen:they're not it's not our your dad's atletico madrid they're not sort of sort of defensive um titan anymore but they are usually quite aggressive and feisty i thought the second half of this was a good version of this game i thought the first half was quite boring but in the second half atletico was kind of a little bit more fired up and i thought it got entertaining and maybe that switch mattered getting uh your enter a little bit more involved uh but also i think there was a slight sort of attitude check as well maybe they got told off at halftime that that's also possible.
5:34Nicky Bandini:We do have to talk about the decisions I guess. The first one I think Barry you know it's a shove, you must be pleased to see a shove being penalised in the box and Jokrej actually does well. I thought he did quite well in this game.
5:45Max Rushden:I haven't been impressed at all particularly with him this season he's got 19 goals in all competitions which is decent for his first season at a new team as good as Arsenal but I still think he could offer a lot more. I think he's one-footed and I don't I think for such a big fella, he's not very good at holding up the ball, but he was quite good at it last night. I presume that's an area of his game that's been worked on and it's something that he can improve. He won that penalty, no problem with that being given at all, and he struck it. He absolutely leathered it. And I think All Black's been getting some criticism for diving with his arms, sort of like wide open scissors, and it went through the gap.
6:31Max Rushden:but I think he struck it so hard. Again, I'm going to stick up for goalkeepers like I did yesterday. I think the criticism being directed at all black is maybe a little unfair. But yeah, I thought Jacare's played well last night.
6:46Nicky Bandini:The second penalty, okay. Chris says, I'm convinced the ref and VAR listened to Football Weekly and made those decisions purely to wind you up. Now I did speak to, on talks yesterday, I spoke to Graeme Scott, the former Premier League referee, who is actually a really good talker on this. And what was interesting was he did say that some referees get directives and they have to give decisions they don't want to give. And it's really annoying if you're a referee because you can't just stick your microphone on and go, I think this law is terrible.
7:10Lars Sivertsen:I personally think this is a load of nonsense, but I've been told this is the rule. So here we go. This is the penalty.
7:15Nicky Bandini:But he said that UEFA, specifically, but IFAB, FIFA, etc., are trying to get the Premier League in line with the rest of Europe because we established yesterday that is probably not given in the Premier League. The Alphonso Davies one isn't given in the Premier League. And what a relief that is. because they are so desperate for consistency. And the head of referees, I was listening to Five Live and they were saying that I think John Murray had been to like a talk from this guy saying, these are powerball penalties. We're getting this right. And John Murray was like, these are all the ones that are really annoying everyone or certainly annoying me.
7:48Nicky Bandini:So I don't know, Lars or Nicky, if you can add anything to this debate. It just makes me so furious, but I'm so aware of repeating myself. It's kind of not a debate. I know that everyone in England is frustrated by it. I feel frustrated by it sometimes watching it, but this is how it's been applied in most of the content. This is a lot close to how it's applied in Italy. Just think that this debate only exists in England. And I'm not saying it's whether it's right or wrong, because I don't like it as a penalty. And I think lots of Italians don't like it either. I don't think that's like saying no one in Europe thinks it's annoying.
8:20But it's just kind of everyone's got over it. And I feel like the English audience hasn't got over it.
8:25Nicky Bandini:I haven't got over it. Maybe never will. Maybe shouldn't. Maybe shouldn't. I really want to lead a revolution for this or be led by someone more charismatic that people will listen to.
8:36Lars Sivertsen:Lars? You're not turning to me for that, man. If we can agree on one thing. But no, the only thing I'd give the UEFA standard of refereeing is that at least they are consistent on this. This has been a penalty all year. It has been a penalty for several years, whether we like it or not. And the players at least know what to expect. I had a significant Guffaut in my front room When I heard the sort of assorted Pundits on the broadcast Suggest that maybe the Referees had watched yesterday's game In the hotel and looked at the handball That was given there and decided well we have To give a silly handball Have you ever watched a game In the Champions League before?
9:18Lars Sivertsen:This is how it's refereed, it's always been like this It's terrible for the game I don't like it but it is at least consistent.
9:26Nicky Bandini:So then there's the non-penalty or the overturn penalty Barry Arteta afterwards so as it gets touched he goes down the ref gives a penalty uh he looks at the replay a million times Arteta says there's no clear and obvious error and this changes the course of the game and at this level I'm sorry this cannot happen a referee had to watch it 13 times what's more clear than that it's impossible and we're all fuming about it and I I have a lot of sympathy for Arteta on this Barry?
9:52Max Rushden:I think it was a foul personally apparently there's some angles available that suggest it wasn't a foul, I haven't seen them but I have seen an angle that to me looks like a foul and once the referee gives it I'm not sure how he can overturn it because I don't know what he saw on the monitor and apparently he looked at it 12 or 13 times that made him think he'd made a mistake originally. If that exact situation happened, if the shoe was on the other foot and that was given against Arsenal, I think their fans would be outraged that it was given and would like it to have been overturned. We probably all agree.
10:37Nicky Bandini:It seems strange. I mean, I hate it when people yell clear and obvious. It's just a phrase I never wanted to exist in football. But it's true. It does get touched. I'm not sure it's a penalty but once it's given I can't see how you overturn it I think it has to stay with the on-field decision if I understand the laws of the game I found people's strength of reactions in both directions quite surprising because as Bass said some people seem absolutely certain this wasn't a penalty seem to think it was ridiculous that this could be considered a penalty and I don't see it as ridiculous it's it is clear contact how much the discussion is whether or not it's enough contact for it to justify the fall and and I think it's pretty clear again it's clear that there's contact it's clear that that Luckman makes the most of it and I I think it sits in the grey area and I'm kind of okay with it being given or not being given I do think that is really boring to repeat it but whatever I'm saying which is should the referee be overturning it having made that decision is kind of the talking point here one of the uh interesting points I saw made there was a former official saying it somewhere I read this morning um saying that maybe one thing that should come out of this is perhaps clubs shouldn't be allowed to decide where the pitch side monitor goes.
11:43Maybe that should go somewhere that's definitely away from having someone shadowing. Diego Simeone. Yeah. I do think like, I think that everyone's sort of blown all of this up too much. I think also we're saying that at the other end, if this was a penalty, I think Luckman could have had a penalty not very long before and didn't go down.
12:02Lars Sivertsen:But the sentence, if he goes down, it's a penalty, is not something we should ever say out loud. Like the referees should be able to call. There's a foul here, whether the player exaggerates or not.
12:11Nicky Bandini:I agree with you, but Luckman doesn't get a penalty because he stays on his feet and he gets a shot away. And if he does go down, I think he definitely gets a penalty because he gets the wrong side of Ben White, isn't it? And, you know, there is contact there. And probably more contact than there is on Eze, right?
12:27Lars Sivertsen:I was surprised it was overturned and I understand the frustration of Arsenal fans because these are typically given, I think. But entirely subjectively, irrespective of the laws of the game and current president, I would like to see them not given. Not just in this case, but in general. Because I think what happens there, it's pretty clear from the replays that Eze feels someone touch him and decides to lie down. And I'm not judging him for that, because penalties are so valuable. Like, a penalty is 80 % of a goal. They matter so much in the course of a game. So players now are completely conditioned to, if you feel something, any kind of tap, you need to lie down and if you don't you might effectively cost your team a goal like this is how it's become now and i think that's bad for the sport i don't think it should work like that i don't think they when attackers get into the box they should be like oh is someone going to touch me is someone going to touch me i can lie down like this is not good uh and and to change that i think two things need to happen and it's important that they both happen first of all yes you have to give penalties even when they try to get their shot away and b you have to not give penalties when people exaggerate now that is my sort of utopian future of refereeing lead the revolution yeah well again we need to find someone actually charismatic to lead the revolution but but what i want to make very clear is that that's sort of utopian thinking from me in the context of how the game is refereed in the year of our lord 2026 i would not expect this to be overturned and i'm understand why arsenal fans are furious that it was do you know the other weird thing with that is though like because everyone's agreed on this i feel like i haven't heard one dissenting opinion on this people saying they were surprised that it was overturned once the referees made the decision but what is also true is like when did you last see a referee go to the monitor and go no i was
14:14Nicky Bandini:right like once they go to the premier league for i held our man city to wolves nil his premier league debut as a ref it was a wolves handball so rare that you're like yeah even if you're wrong you're like go for it ref believe in yourself this is like it's like a movie and this is where
14:30Lars Sivertsen:i would want the the practice of var to change because the way it is now they look at it in the booth and then they go hey we have seen this do you want and we think it's this do you want to look at this whereas i just think it should be uh we're not sure about this one if you want to see a couple of replays then you know that's that's probably a good idea or maybe something like that because i do agree i i think the way it is now the referees are put under too much pressure to change their minds it's worth mentioning as well like on the actual football part of it whether or not it's a penalty i think it's it's definitely a very risky challenge by hanko who also gave away the first penalty and and i know some people were saying couldn't he have gone for the first one because of denial of a scoring opportunity and i think that and with the double jeopardy definitely shouldn't be a red card but people have talked about it so worth saying but i think it's really interesting because we we we hyper focus on undispanably these moments around penalties because they can decide games but hanko also made some really important challenges up the pitch pressing high and playing aggressive and turning the ball over in that second half that led to nice attacks for Atletico.
15:30So I suppose just worth reminding ourselves that football games are 90 minutes and have moments, don't they?
15:36Lars Sivertsen:I mean, yes, Nicky, but also, do you reckon David Hunchko, when he got into the dressing room after the game, went to Simeone and said, listen, boss, I know I gave away one and a half penalties, but I did also make some good challenges.
15:47Nicky Bandini:You mentioned Simeone. I mean, it was Barry, a sort of vintage Simeone performance, wasn't it? John says, is Diogo Simeone allowed to be more annoying than Arteta and get away with it? As he looks like a low-key B-tier Sopranos character. I think there's some truth in that, that for some reason, Simeone being annoying is less annoying than Arteta being annoying.
16:06Max Rushden:Well, I think it's for the likes of us who aren't exposed to Simeone being annoying as often as we are Arteta. That probably factors into the equation. I for example I don't find Jose Mourinho Objectible and annoying at all at the moment Because I don't ever see him or very rarely see him Because he's not really on my radar But I see Arteta being annoying almost every week I don't know if it was on television But Mark picked it up I saw it online this morning That at the end of the game when the players were walking off the pitch And going down the tunnel There's an Atletico Madrid crest. I don't know if it's painted into the grass or a carpet at the entrance to the tunnel on the edge of the pitch.
16:56Max Rushden:And Ben White had the audacity to walk across the crest rather than go around it in a performative show of respect, you know, of the kind Rio Ferdinand famously filmed himself doing. and Diego Simeone got the hump with him for sullying the crest with his muddy boots and they had a bit of a shoving match before security intervened.
17:22Nicky Bandini:If you don't want people to walk on something right at the entrance of a thing, yeah, I mean, it seems completely ridiculous.
17:27Lars Sivertsen:Built a house of cards just inside my front door once and someone came in and knocked it over. Nightmare. Is it legal to put a big club crest like in your six yard box? Good idea. It's like we can't, no one's allowed to go here. You can't go there.
17:40Nicky Bandini:Once the dust settles, I can understand, Niki, that Arteta's annoyed at the moment, but that is not a terrible result. And to go back to the Emirates, and maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like the vibe at the Emirates will be different on a Champions League night to the sort of abject terror of Fulham at home, which we'll get to at the weekend. Yeah, I think that'll depend a bit on how the game goes, obviously. And I think the fear that we talk about can come in depending on how a game goes. almost in some ways you can almost imagine if Arsenal score early in that game and do what they do and immediately retreat into or we just sit on this now I do think that for most fans it feels like the Premier League is this weighty thing that there's been this club's need and this need for validation and they were so far in front that they shouldn't blow it that this feels different to the Champions League where even now and even if they win this time they're not going to be the favourites it is a different feeling and I think that's been true not just for Arsenal to be fair I think that's true for most clubs playing in Europe and I think that's why you see quite a few Premier League clubs this season have had these almost pleasant breaks to Europe in between not so pleasant times in the Premier League.
18:46Nicky Bandini:Lars yesterday someone accused us of becoming a parody of ourselves because Wilson went straight and this game wasn't that great and to a lesser extent Johnny Johnny did say he did enjoy the game it was left to me and Barry to be you know chief this was quite a good game of football but I just wondered if you wanted to have some well I mean it'd be funny if you said I thought also was a you know hopeless game but I thought a lot about that it gave me a
19:10Lars Sivertsen:sort of slight crisis of personality because on the one hand yes that was a bit buzzkill-y by by the Jonathans uh Wilson in particular but I also had to review my own whatsapp groups and I realized the two like hot takes I had in one of my football chats was this is mostly a consequence of the sort of ever-increasing concentration of talent amongst a very small group of very wealthy clubs, first of all. And second of all, this is what happens when two teams that are kind of assembled and coached in order to put four or five goals past financially inferior opponents every week meet each other because they don't know how to defend because they don't really do it very often.
19:51Lars Sivertsen:So it turns out I had the exact same reaction as Jonathan Wilson, which of course has led me to do quite a lot of soul-searching in the hours that followed. But I guess here's the thing. I think it's possible to think those things and still enjoy the spectacle of it. I think you have to, because this is kind of what we're left with. This is what modern club football is in 2026. And I don't see it changing anytime soon. The development is that the wealthier clubs are getting a bigger and bigger slice of the pie. They are buying up more and more of the good players. And the concentration of talent is extreme.
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20:26Lars Sivertsen:And I think that's really bad for the sport. But the flip side is when they meet, like the technical and physical levels of those games are unbelievable. And I think you have to just kind of enjoy that. Because if not, then what's the point? A number of years ago, I had a moment of sort of personal crisis. And I just realized I kind of don't, I'm not sure I like this sport anymore. Because I started getting really fed up with like everything Philippe always talks about. Like how grumpy everything is. And this development that I'm talking about now, how everything seems to always be going in the wrong direction, and even things like the sort of relentless toxicity of a lot of online fandom and stuff like this was starting to really grind me down and think, do I really enjoy this anymore?
21:08Lars Sivertsen:and the thing I kind of in order to find some joy in it I started thinking we have to really appreciate the things you do appreciate I was covering the Premier League at the time so I was going to a lot of Chelsea games and I think it was the season where Eden Hazard went completely wild and and was incredibly good and I just found I really enjoy watching this slightly short Belgian man run with the ball across the grass and go past people it's like an objectively beautiful things to watch and you can find like you can be aware of all these negative trends uh that wilson and other panelists on this podcast are very very good at pointing out and i think it's important to point them out i think you can be aware of those things and still find things that you enjoy about the sport you can you can carve out some comfort amongst the doom which has become something of a mantra uh for me in general in life if you cannot watch that game last night or the night before and just marvel at the speed and the technical quality and the audacity and the fact that you have two coaches who let them play like that in a champions league semifinal as well who don't try to just stop the game from taking place like some coaches do you have to find the joy in that i guess the counter argument is that is a bit like going to i don't want to name a but one of these undemocratic slightly terrible places where the buildings are all very shiny and beautiful but Like the secret ingredient is oppression.
22:29Lars Sivertsen:There's a bit of that as well.
22:30Nicky Bandini:Listening to great music of, it's a, you know, a disgraced musician, etc.
22:35Lars Sivertsen:I still think, like, it's okay to like the nice things. You know the saying, not seeing the forest for all the trees. I think sometimes we don't see the trees for all the forests. I think there's an element of that. Like, there were some good trees in that game.
22:48Nicky Bandini:No, I agree with you. Speaking of finding joy, because you have to find joy on the radio yesterday, and this is not related. Charlie Baker and I, For reasons that are too drawn out to get into, we're discussing who was the better singer out of Linvoy Primus, Portsmouth legend, and Craig Johnson, inventor of The Predator. And we suggested we got them both to sing In the Air Tonight by Phil Collins. And Linvoy Primus, nicest man in football, was listening and sent me a voice note singing In the Air Tonight by Phil Collins. So, you know, that gave me some joy. In Europe tonight, Forest host Villa in the first leg of the Europa League semifinal.
23:22Nicky Bandini:Abraga hosting Freiburg in the other semi. and then Palace are away to Shakhtar in the Conference League. Rayo Vallecano hosting Strasbourg in the other semifinal. We'll cover those games on Monday. And in part two, we will do a Premier League preview.
23:42Nicky Bandini:Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly. So the top of the Premier League looks like this. Arsenal 73 from 34. Man City 70 from 33. Arsenal play Fulham on Saturday at 5.30 with Man City going to Everton on Monday. So it is, Barry, definitely an advantage to go first as long as you win.
24:00Max Rushden:Arsenal have never lost in 32 home league games against Fulham, apparently. Really? Yeah. Not losing is not enough for Arsenal. They probably need to win. The one thing I saw watching the game last night, Atletico were very dominant in the second half. I thought Arsenal were a little bit lucky to come away with a draw, if I'm honest. but they look very tired. They have played 57 games this season. I think Fulham have played 42, something like that, considerably fewer anyway. Fulham can still qualify for Europe. Whether they're that fussed about qualifying for Europe or not is another matter. Arsenal should win this game, home against Fulham.
24:43No excuses, but I know they're going to be preoccupied
24:48Max Rushden:by the return leg against Atletico. So they do look quite nervous in their league games. They look very nervous against Newcastle last time out. And they look tired, and understandably so. I did hear someone talk on the radio the other day that Arteta perhaps should have used his squad more. He is a big squad, but he doesn't use quite a lot of players. Christian Neurogard has barely got a look in this season, which I don't understand. Arteta clearly doesn't have any faith in him, and I'm not sure why, because Neurogard, I think he's a really good player. Well, you think maybe this is a game to throw him in and give Declan Rice a rest, but one suspects that won't happen.
25:28Max Rushden:Because a lot's been made of,
25:29Nicky Bandini:look, they've built this squad where there's two players for every position. I know not everyone's fit. What starting 11 would you like to drop at 4pm or whenever it comes out? I do think it's particularly like the question like up front with Jokic. I agree with what Lars was saying. I thought he played a particular kind of game that Arsenal needed to play away from home in Europe and it was a battling game and he won a lot of aerial ball and he did the things that were needed of him. And I think that those have been the settings where he has done better work for Arsenal. And I think that I'm not just certain that's the kind of game they need at all against Fulham.
26:01It's going to be a completely different kind of game. You're going to need to play on the front foot against them. Love Barry jinxing it there by saying I've never lost it over to Fulham because we know they can. All these records may be broken. But yeah, it needs to be a front foot performance and I'm not certain he's thrived in those settings. So who does start up front, given that Havertz isn't available? I wish I had the answer, Max, and I think the answer is not easy to pull out. I don't think it's as simple as sticking one particular player in is going to change everything because really what it comes down to is to a great degree mindset and what players are physically capable of as well at this time in the season because it's really boring to keep coming back to it.
26:42but I did have this conversation with some friends of my textile like months ago about how this Arsenal season just has such strong echoes for me of Inter last season when Inter were Inter was significantly better than everyone else nearly last season in my opinion which Arsenal aren't so the gap was bigger and Inter still managed to win nothing because they tried to do everything and they just wiped themselves out and the real problem for Arsenal right now in my opinion isn't actually about which players are in starting 11 it's the team looks burned out and i don't know how you pull that back from the brink this close to the end
27:18Nicky Bandini:of the season yeah yeah if they do win it will be like a marathon runner winning you know just like falling over the line and they're just like get the bouncy shoes they'll just all be vomiting and they have to have like a massive tin foil like just like wrapped around them won't they man city go to everton on uh monday night then they've got the cup final haven't they city but apart from that it's an easier run for them even if their games aren't necessarily easy to last
27:42Lars Sivertsen:that's an interesting point is it an easier run because i don't think city necessarily thrive in games where they have to unlock the opponents they've seemed to be like quite happy with the open games this year which is not what we're used to seeing they are a very un-pep like city this year so these games against everton and brentford and to an extent palace though of course palace will be distracted these are very big banana skins i mean this is my hot take about the running i don't think either of City or Arsenal will win the rest of their games there's a boo-boo coming for probably both of them and I and I think City's run-in is kind of tricky on on on paper yeah I agree with you and I think Everton I'm aware that David Moyes's record against the top teams is not good I mean statistically it's not great I just think the way Everton's set up they're quite compact they're quite physical I don't think necessarily Holland and Semenya and the lads will have the kind of space to run into that they like and i think this could be tricky for them the
28:37Nicky Bandini:relegation fight then leads have a brilliant chance to basically guarantee safety they are home to burnley on friday night and a win would take them above newcastle then on saturday at three west ham go to brentford brentford haven't won in six do you think that will continue barry or do you think west ham will get something on the board they are two points ahead of tottenham
28:58Max Rushden:at the moment brentford are undeniably having a good season if you'd offered any brentford fan their current position at the start of the season. They'd have bitten your hand off. They've stopped winning. They're throwing away points. I thought they played very well against Manchester United, just couldn't put away enough chances to beat them. I think they're in a position of vulnerability and West Ham need to exploit that. Could be a tough game for West Ham. Brentford need to win to keep their hopes of qualifying for Europe again. But like Fulham, it's difficult to know whether they're fussed about qualifying for the Conference League.
29:34Max Rushden:Would they have the squad depth to be able to compete on four fronts next season? They certainly don't have it at the moment.
29:42Nicky Bandini:The players definitely will want to, right? You know, there's no doubt that they will be. I don't think that gets into anyone's mind at Brentford. Oh, I'm not sure we don't want to win this. I'm not just trying to pump Brentford up for my own selfish dreams, but I just don't think that comes into it. Would be weird.
29:59Max Rushden:I wouldn't necessarily agree with you, to be honest. I'm not sure if I was a footballer, I'd be that fussed about playing in the Europa Conference League. I think it's aggravation I'd happily do without.
30:12Nicky Bandini:There are many reasons why you're not a footballer, Barry.
30:18Max Rushden:I just think your idea of what goes on in the mind of professional footballers may be a bit happy-clappy and idealistic. no I think they all want to win
30:28Nicky Bandini:every I think any level I mean that suggests that like teams in League One don't want to get in the playoffs because you know they can't really be it's no different you know like for those Brentford players that haven't played in Europe
30:39Max Rushden:I think getting in the playoffs to get promotion is a lot different to qualifying for the the Europa Conference League just one thing look we'll agree to differ on this one or agree to disagree but Joshua Silva was in the Brentford squad that went to Old Trafford the other night That was his first time in a Brentford squad in 816 days he's been out with injury. Before that, he was out for four months. Before that, a year. And before that, another 18 months. So, I mean, the guy has just had such a run of luck with injuries. It would be lovely to see him out on the pitch again before the end of the season.
31:20Max Rushden:Yeah, good player.
31:22Nicky Bandini:Lars, Spurs go to Villa on Sunday. I suspect hoping that Villa somehow get a lot of calf strains against Forrest and it's very tight whatever happens between Villa and Forrest we don't need one side to hammer the other one
31:35Lars Sivertsen:Aston Villa like those of us who spent the entire first half of the season going this cannot continue with Villa and their weird long shots and the XG and all the rest of it like we have kind of been proven right a little bit like they haven't been good since the turn of the year in the Premier League they've got I think four wins in the last 14 in the Premier League if the league started on the 1st of January they'd be 13th so like the the regression monster came for for Aston Villa but they're still probably I mean almost certainly going to make the Champions League just because the other teams up there in particular you Chelsea are such a total mess so they are going to get away with it I think but I think if you're Spurs on paper Villa are their fifth in the league you Unai Emery, good players, scary stuff.
32:23Lars Sivertsen:But Aston Villa, who've got this Europa League game tonight, that might not be the worst opponent in the world to have at this point in time. Because again, they've not been great in the league recently, Villa.
32:36Nicky Bandini:If you looked at the league table starting in January, it wouldn't look great for Tottenham. No, I can tell you they would be second from bottom. They'd had one point more than Burnley.
32:44Lars Sivertsen:They'd be 19th. I've got it in front of me here. Both ends of the table. It feels like a weekend where the order of the fixtures really matters. and you were saying before about, yeah, it's good for Arsenal if they win. It's terrible if they don't, right? Because then City look at that and go, they can win. I think it's the same bit for Tottenham, isn't it? Because that West Ham game, when you look at West Ham's remaining games, this feels like one where they kind of need the points because the other games they've got, I mean, they've got to play Arsenal. They've got away at Newcastle, I think it is.
33:08So this one feels that they've got to take something from it. And so if they lose, as Lars says, I don't think Villa are that scary at the moment. I don't think Villa are that scary. But if West Ham have won, then it feels a lot heavier, doesn't it? Then, Scott, we've got to get a result. But if West Ham have lost and it's a chance to game things...
33:26Lars Sivertsen:It is possible that I have jinxed this phenomenally now. Kinski will have headbutt to the post again and everything is going badly wrong.
33:32Nicky Bandini:And no, Xavi Simonson, I think Solanke's out as well. So that is an issue for Tottenham. Forrest go to Chelsea. I guess if West Ham and Spurs have won by Monday night, then that puts more pressure on Forrest going to a Liam Rossini-less Chelsea. McCallum Mudrick's appeal to the Court of Arbitration for Sport after he received a four-year playing ban from the FA for the use of a bland substance. No, not a bland substance. Porridge. Yeah, margarine. Yeah, no. A banned substance at Meldonium. He's not played a competitive match since November 2024 after he failed the drugs test while on international duty.
34:11Nicky Bandini:Under the terms of any four-year ban, he'd not be eligible for selection until December 2028. If an appeal to Casper was successful, he could possibly return next year. His contract with Chelsea runs until 2030. They wouldn't comment on the news saying they had to let the process take its course. The FA are not commenting on the proceedings either. Newcastle played Brighton, three o 'clock on Saturday. I mean, one win for Newcastle, they're surely safe. But if it doesn't come, the pressure will ramp up, Baz. Four defeats in a row. Piff are pulling the plug on live golf. And if you're a Newcastle fan, you would be going, that seems strange.
34:43Nicky Bandini:My understanding, for what it's worth, I don't know if I heard this on the pod or on the radio, is that football is still something they really care about and they have the World Cup in 2034 and so owning a Premier League side is good but like it's interesting.
34:55Max Rushden:The snooker world championships are on at the moment as well and earlier this week all the top players received an email telling them that Saudi Arabia have abandoned that lucrative tournament they hosted I think the last two years. It has equal prize money or even better prize money than the world championships and I think the players were under the impression they were contracted to play in it for X number of years but that's been sacked off so they're upset about that because it was a nice little earner for them. As far as Newcastle United are concerned, I think, is it this week or next week, they're having the Power Summit at Methven Hall, a posh hotel in Northumberland where the guys from PIFC come over and Eddie Howe and assorted other members of the club hierarchy have to go in and explain themselves.
35:48Max Rushden:Could be a few awkward conversations there and finger-pointing and whatnot. As far as the training ground is concerned, they keep talking or feeding info to local journalists saying that, you know, oh, we've identified where the plush new training ground is going to be built, but they haven't even bought the land yet, let alone stuck a spade in the ground. So that seems to be being put on the long finger. They still don't know whether they're going to do up St. James' Park or move somewhere else altogether. So Newcastle are nowhere near where I think most of their fans, and probably Eddie Howe as well, thought they would be when Piff took over, what is it, four years ago now?
36:39Nicky Bandini:on the snooker world championships I don't know if you saw this it's not related to football so my apologies and I can't vouch for its accuracy but it did make me laugh watching the snooker John Higgins complained about a noise from the audience the ref told him the sound came from a person's breathing device to which Higgins asked could they turn it off
37:03Nicky Bandini:it feels a little bit harsh do the snooker
37:07Lars Sivertsen:because I've been exposed to some of the snooker because it's on in my gym, so when I'm sort of bored out of my mind on the treadmill, there's snooker right in front of me. They all look very sad. Is this because this sort of Saudi Arabian tournament, or is that just how snooker players look?
37:20Max Rushden:No, they're just generally solemn and demeanour. Yeah, there's not a lot
37:25Nicky Bandini:of, you know, they don't see a lot of daylight, I guess, do they? You also can't just sit grinning wildly. It'd just look odd if you were sat in your chair with your waistcoat grinning. Anyway, that'll do for part two. Part three, we'll give you some EFL permutations.
37:46Nicky Bandini:Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly. At the top of the championship then it's Ipswich, Millwall or Middlesbrough that are going to go up automatically. Ipswich host QPR which looks straightforward on paper. Millwall host relegated Oxford so that also looks straightforward if Ipswich slip up and if they both slip up then Middlesbrough have to win at Wrexham which is not easy because Wrexham themselves need a win to give themselves the best chance of getting in the playoffs and they need to win by more than Hull win to be sure of getting in the playoffs because they have a one better goal difference than Hull at the moment.
38:16Nicky Bandini:Hull are home to form side Norwich. Meanwhile Derby plays Sheffield United so they have the easiest game and they are one point behind Hull and Wrexham so they could sneak into the playoffs. Southampton are definitely in the playoffs and definitely can't get automatically promoted. In League One the top two are confirmed Lincoln and Cardiff so it's a bum fight for the playoffs Stockport need a point as to Bradford then it'll be between Stevenage, Luton and Plymouth to get in Stevenage in the box seat at the bottom it is between Lane Orient and Exeter Orient host Burton who are safe Exeter host Bradford who are in the playoffs do need something so it's very much advantage Orient Steven says are Cambridge going to bottle it so it's between MK Duns and Bromley for the title we go to Crewe who are 10th have nothing to play for but apparently we've only won two away games against the top 10 this season if we don't win Salford go to Crawley who are fighting for their lives and if neither of us win Notts County can jump over us by beating Bristol Rovers at home oh god the agony of it Max if you could only choose one out of Cambridge promoted or Tottenham staying up which is it I'm afraid I'm Cambridge till I die Nikki uh uh so there's no contest but I just saw I sort of feel them as quite different even though they would just be one league apart you know after if that if that turned out I'm almost liking it to liking chips and air like chips are nice but like you know push comes to shove I can do without them much like the man at the snooker air is important for my life and that's where Cambridge fit in all of this but it's a very good question at the bottom mightily close for who drops out barrow are probably down but they're home to newport so they can keep they can drag newport into this barrel need a ridiculous win and then crawley to lose massively but as we've said crawley plays salford so they could get battered harrigate are home to barnett who have an outside chance of the playoffs uh barrow have 36 points harrigate 39 crawley 39 newport 40 and tramir 40 tramir play grimsby also going for the playoffs.
40:19Nicky Bandini:So very rare that the bottom of League Two goes this far. So good luck to everybody. To Italy, Nicky, briefly, can you tell us about the refereeing scandal? What's happened there? Yeah, fairly major story in Italy. Certainly gobble up all the headlines at the beginning of this week about the head of the referees committee for the top two divisions, Gianluca Rocchi, stood down because he's under investigation by the Milan prosecutor's office. So did Andrea Gervazzani, who is the video assistant referee supervisor for the same body. Rocky is not going to be interviewed, actually. We thought he was going to be interviewed by the prosecutor today, but his lawyer has said that he's decided to make a decision for his client not to go ahead with that until the charges are made more clear to them.
41:02Gerwazony, I believe, is going to be interviewed today on Thursday.
41:04Nicky Bandini:We still may not know the full extent of everything that's under investigation. It should be said that, as of today, they've been pretty clear that no clubs are under investigation. This is a case relating specifically to refereeing and how certain refereeing decisions were made about which referees get designated to certain matches and also about how VAR is used. There was this particular game that was picked up where you had two officials discussing a VAR decision in the game between Udinese and Parma last season where Florian Tovan's shot hit the arm of Botan Baloch inside the penalty box. The VAR official, Daniele Paterna, Now they have a situation similar to in England where the VAR headquarters saw it done for the International Broadcast Centre, was seen basically saying not a penalty with his assistant and then turns off camera, on the camera you can see, and clearly gets a gesture from someone that perhaps this is worth reconsidering because you can see him mouthing his penalty.
42:04And then he tells the referee to have a look at it again and then he ends up giving the decision for a penalty. So discussion about who exactly that was. who said that to him and whether that was the appropriate protocol. It's a lot of stuff about protocol and stuff about designating referees. But of course, we're 20 years on from Calciopoli, which was a big scandal about how referees were designated. So it is very tense and sensitive ground. But again, just to say, at the moment, at least, the investigators have said no clubs under investigation. This is an investigation about the refereeing processes.
42:36Also, we're saying that these people were talking about, Gervasani, Rocky, Paterna, who's the VAR official, they have all denied wrongdoing and it's an open case. So to be clear, this is all very much under investigation for now.
42:50Nicky Bandini:All right. And you've written a column. So go and read Nikki's column, as you always should, of course. Let's finish with this email from Sasha, who says, Dear Max Barry and all of the panel, despite being an avid listener since my discovery of podcasts in the 2010s, this is my first correspondent. I have listened to the pod avidly since, never missing an episode. Wow. This is requiring increasing stoicism recently, as I'm a Scottish Arsenal fan who firmly believes the season should have ended in November. Back then, we qualified for the World Cup and the quadruple was in the bag. Sadly, I'm a creature of habit and have continued to listen to every episode, even as Scotland and Arsenal appear determined to outdo each other in who can serve up the drab of football.
43:24Nicky Bandini:As the quad bottle nears its painful climax, it would mean a lot to me if Barry could offer up some sage marriage advice before I'm lucky enough to marry Eleanor this Saturday, the 2nd of May. She has no real interest in football, but finds listening to you lot a fair price to pay for me driving us up to our wedding in Scotland. Throughout our relationship, your work has provided the listening entertainment for all our travels and eleanor is regularly aghast by her accidental knowledge of football acquired passively on these occasions she's kept up to date with barry's half marathon and max's weans and probably has a good idea about where sergio ramos is as the rest of us a shout out from barry would go a long way to ensuring our kids will get to listen to football weekly in years to come even after it makes me wince with memories of my own vasectomy cheers sasha uh so off you go barry uh sasha and eleanor driving to
44:08Max Rushden:their wedding currently listening to this yeah i mean i don't know how far the journey is but they should possibly have left their wedding till after the world cup because if uh sasha is to keep up his record of having listened to uh every single episode since 2010 or whatever he's he's going to be have a lot to listen to during the world cup i reckon but yeah I wish them every happiness. I have attended one wedding in Scotland, which was at St. Andrews. And if they're getting married there, they're very lucky because it's a beautiful location. But I'm sure there are plenty of other beautiful Scottish wedding locations.
44:51Nicky Bandini:Yeah, it's a niche. On the off chance you're not getting married at St. Andrews, we also hope you have a nice time.
44:56Max Rushden:Incidentally, the girl, Madeline, whose wedding I was at in Scotland, I lived with her in a flat share when I first arrived in London. And she got in touch with me recently to send me a picture of her son, who I presumed to be about eight years old. He's 20 and he's a cage fighter. And he looks ripped. He looks like Cristiano Ronaldo, that Rick. I was stunned. But the Madeleine I know, I can't imagine her at a cage fight,
45:34Nicky Bandini:but that is what her son does. We're all ageing. It's happening to everyone all at the same time. Anyway, that'll do for today. Thanks, everybody. Thank you, Lars. Thank you, Max. Thanks, Nicky. Thanks. Cheers, Baz. Thank you. Football Weekly is produced by Silas Gray and our executive producer is Joel Grove. And we'll be back on Monday.
45:58Max Rushden:This is The Guardian.