Answering your questions from the Christmas mailbag – Football Weekly Extra

0:00This is The Guardian.

0:30It's just your questions and some nice Christmas messages from favourite panellists. At some point, John Bruin will talk about 442, hit it to the big man, hit the channels, get it launched. At some point, Jonathan Wilson will tell you to buy one, some, all of his books. And at some point, I'll try and compare elite football to my 40-year career as a target man slash CDM in Cubs, school, university, Sunday league football. And at some point, we'll remember the real meaning of Christmas, Barry's header. Welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly Christmas Special.

1:00And it's a repeat of last year's Christmas. Such was the success. You can't get three cheerier Christmas faces than these. Jonathan Wilson, welcome. Ho, ho, ho. Good. Very solid start. John Bruin, happy Christmas. Happy Christmas. As the years pass by and the beard gets whiter and the battle with the waistline continues, I begin to feel a bit more Christmas, if you see what I mean. there's a grotto waiting for you john hello barry glendening yes merry christmas everybody chris there's like the hootenanny recording it this far out it's june the 7th everybody that's when we're doing this uh for the tape december the 17th so anything that's happened between then and when this is released on christmas eve uh you know you have we don't know what's happened so it's not our fault jesse says this show is meant to be recorded in front of an audience in Burr in Ireland listen to last year's Christmas special does anybody remember last year's Christmas special and we promised to do this in Burr Barry I don't recall promising to do this in Burr but I'd be wholeheartedly in favour of recording in Burr because the theatre in Burr is across the street from my mum's house so I wouldn't have far to go to get home back to my bed afterwards and i think i i'd be reasonably confident we'd sell out in every sense of the word yeah dynamic pricing for the tickets i have a feeling that you said exactly i reckon i did i was thinking i must have said this last year that the theater is right across the street from my mom's house so we've got off to a great start well no but christmas is having the same conversations with the same relatives like we're doing exactly what we're meant to be doing uh joe kim uh a friend of the pod says always a highlight to the christmas special speaking of highlights what's been your biggest highlight of the year i mean a goal a miss a sending off etc it's a simple one to start with do we have an answer john bruin well do you know what i actually missed the game of the year which was the four all on monday because i was watching 12th night culture over here you know yeah let's say highlights of the year well as it's me i'll go for a low light and it was the europa league final not a tribute to english football's quality was it jonathan you were there i think yeah it was so bad so bad and i've been to a few europe in Europa League finals, sometimes with Jonathan, the Ruby Turner of our Hootenanny.

3:45I don't know what that means. What does that mean? We've actually watched Hootenanny together, Jonathan, and I did point this out on that occasion that Ruby Turner is on every year and Ruby Turner has not had a hit, I wouldn't have thought, since about 1987. A bit harsh on my oof, but okay. To be honest, John, that night, I don't remember the Hootenanny as much as the series of serial killer documentaries we watched afterwards. It was... Happy New Year. No, it was one of the best New Year's I've ever had. It was Fred Dynish did a series on serial killers, and we watched three of them back to back.

4:22It was brilliant. Right, so we have your low light, John. Yeah, a bit of quadrophenia as well, actually, after that. Yeah, I remember that as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I just... It was the day that Ange Ball decided to just get it launched, and... Manchester United, the most famous team in football, played a brand of Imodium football that I will... And do you know what was worse about it? It was my birthday. Ah, John. What about you, Wilson? Do you have a highlight? Or are you going to stay on this miserable trench that John has dug for us? No, I think one of the best things was how many surprise teams or teams who aren't used to winning things won trophies in May.

5:13So Palace winning the FA Cup, Aberdeen winning the Scottish Cup after 35 years, I think it was, Oudianne Saint-Geloise winning the Belgian League after 70 years, and Sunderland winning the playoff final. It was two of the best days of my life came on Saturdays five weeks apart. Barry was there for both of them uh only one of them did i end up sobbing in barry's arms and that wasn't the wedding that was uh tom watson scoring scoring the 96th minute winner oh i thought you were going to say when when you were worried she wouldn't turn up she was running late she's tenacious like i i knew there was no shaking her yeah that afternoon it went the playoff final win i mean obviously it's a very parochial personal thing but that is sondland's yeah in terms of a one-off occasion, the best one-off occasion since 1973, the best occasion for Sunderland Football Club in my lifetime.

6:04I'm delighted I was sharing it with Barry. Is yours the same, Baz? Well, I'll finesse it slightly. I really enjoyed that day. I loved getting to share with Wilson and his Mac and mates. That made it a bit special as well. But I think the particular highlight of That day was the precise millisecond I realised that Tommy Watson's injury time winner was going to curl inside the post and not hit it or go wide. And that was special. And then in the ensuing melee, celebratory melee, my glasses came off my head. So then I was in a massive panic that someone would stamp on them. But luckily they escaped unscathed.

6:49I mean, it's recency bias of a sort, but I think even if it had happened the very first day of this year, being privileged enough to be present for Nick Valtamade's own goal on Sunday, that will always be a life highlight. That was brilliant. brilliant and the Ireland match against Hungary oh and maybe the Scotland game as well which against Denmark which I almost enjoyed as much even though I'm not Scottish yeah I know I think you're right I think the I actually found the Tottenham win sort of too much really and you know I think the the the van der Ven clearance off the line in what was I agreed on one of the worst games of football i think i've ever ever seen but i actually think the the the the moment when the palace fans knew that they'd won the fa cup i can't remember like a city player shoots over the bar or something it's a goal kick and we've had eight of five minutes or whatever it is i can't remember the exact details but there was just this moment where the palace fans they knew they knew that they'd won a major trophy and they'd never won one before and there was just that moment of just the complete relief that it was done but it wasn't done yet so they still had to wait for the ref to blow his whistle and when he blew his whistle there are just so many amazing you know iphone footage moments of palace fans just not quite knowing what to do and sort of putting their head in their hands then crying and then hugging strangers and and actually the scotland one i think my favorite of of the kenny mcclain videos is that pub where you can't see the screen but you can see the fans and someone quite correctly says take it to the corner and someone just says what you're fucking doing and then the whole place erupts like it's just ah the timing is it's so good uh right uh byad he says how are your predictions going at the halfway mark sizzler similar question says wishing you baz and the rest of you a merry christmas and a happy new year Would any of you like to make three changes to your predictions, e.g.

8:55Baz, with Everton being relegated? I don't want to change them. I made them. That's what predictions are. You can't really change them. Everton is clearly a mistake. I had them 19th. I still find them a puzzling watch. They can be really good sometimes, they can be really bad sometimes. If they had a striker, I think they'd be, or a striker who could score goals every now and then, they'd possibly be title contenders. And I think I had Liverpool to win the title. That was clearly a mistake as well. I think the rest of them were fairly OK. I didn't have Sunderland being relegated. I think I probably thought they might be relegated, but I couldn't relegate them.

9:41So I think I had them 14th or 15th. they mightn't finish that low but no I wouldn't change them I had reasons for making them at the time and I stand over those reasons even though I'd been proved incorrect. Well I had Tunnel and Bottom so that was quite badly wrong but I don't think it's reasonable that a team can bring in 14 players and they all suddenly gel like that that's not normal I think I was justified in in being pessimistic for them and they've won a lot of games by a single goal I think there'll be a severe regression to the mean and the fixture list was very kind to them they got some easy games first who got some points on the board so that was badly wrong uh and i'd probably overrated chelsea but equally i think that if levi colwell hadn't got injured and if afana hadn't got injured i think they'd be in a much better position than they are now and my sense that liverpool city arsenal you couldn't quite trust any of them i think maybe i'm being a bit unfair when arsenal maybe city are coming good now but i don't think that was way off for mark so and i didn't think Wolves would be as bad as they have been and I think I did have them quite low down so yeah I got something really badly wrong I overrated Chelsea and I overrated Wolves I think I relegated Burnley West Ham and Wolves so I think that might be quite good I had City to win the title but I definitely had Tottenham way too high actually I had Arsenal to win the league and I'm honestly not getting angsty about it they are going to do it it's going to be okay honestly please tell me it's going to be okay uh we're not worried honestly honestly please no don't I had West Ham to struggle Reasonably happy with that It was my greatest prediction After watching towards the end of last season I had Wolves to struggle I think we all could see That our dear friend Vitor Pereira Might not actually Well we didn't expect that he'd get a new three year contract And then get sacked But that happened And I actually My Manchester United prediction was I think to come Fifth And they're sort of around there despite being absolutely rubbish.

11:44So, yeah, it's a funny old game, as we'll get to. Are they rubbish, John? I mean, I just don't remember. I don't know if I dare ask this question. We tried to answer it after the full four, but I don't know. No, they're rubbish. They're rubbish. I mean, I'm just not having it. It's just, it's not even Ruben Amarim's fault. It's just the whole thing is just this, like, just this grim sort of ship sailing into murky waters that get murkier and more miserable. And, you know, you need some sort of Captain Ahab figure. You know, it's just... God, it's awful. It's just bad. Even when the games are interesting, it's just grim.

12:24Do you think that's it forever for Man United and Tottenham, Wilson? I mean, I suppose it never was for Tottenham. That's the difference. Well, yeah, Tottenham are a baffling side in so many respects, but not least the fact that they're one of the big five who led the breakaway to form the premier league they're one of the super league six they've won the league twice that puts them on a par with giants such as preston burnley portsmouth it puts them yeah they've won three times fewer titles in sondland they're not a big club come on grow up uh big stadium lovely stadium so look they they they should never be lower than mid table in the premier because of their size on united you say similar but united are a funny club because they've only ever won the league under three managers they're a really hard team to manage for whatever reason so unless you're an absolute genius i always think this argument is hilarious because it's like the only one that won them under three managers two of those managers were managed for 25 years i mean what else are they supposed to do for the rest of the time you know i mean it's like they've only been in business 150 years so it's like so for a third of that time they were really really successful oh well they only had two managers well what does that matter it's absolute nonsense Liverpool always say well we've had six managers that have won the league well three of them were all worked out of the same room that you know I mean come on nonsense it doesn't matter in the sense it's not a criticism they've had two of the greatest managers of all time it is a fact that every other manager who's ever been in charge of Manchester United apart from Ernest Magnell Matt Busby and Alex Ferguson has found it really difficult to cope with the size of a club the list of managers who failed at United is way way way bigger than the list of managers who've succeeded there it's a really hard club to manage United have had two of the all-time geniuses and yeah they've they've both been there for a very long time actually arguably that's one of the reasons why their successes have found it so hard because those managers lingered too long maybe not quite as long as say Wenger did at Arsenal but I think Busby certainly should I know it's obviously complicated by the European Cup which he did win but his methods were pretty old-fashioned by the time he finally went and then of course didn't go I think yeah Fergib isn't declined by the time he won that title in 2013 so it's I don't think they should be taken as a criticism but it is a fact it's it's yeah since the first world war only two managers have won the league of Manchester it's really hard this is uh Barry this is the argument at Christmas dinner that happens every Christmas where the other two just, you know, we just wander off.

14:55Stick some vinyl on and pour another glass of wine. Just hope the quiz is on soon. Mulquier says, we have the Wilson scenario. What would be the Glendening or the Bruins scenario? Barry? Well, before I even be honest, do people actually remember what the Wilson scenario is? Because I think people have got it wrong. Well, the Wilson scenario is, so it's a chaotic sequence of refereeing decisions involving a counter-attack goal that's overturned by VAR and leads to, because a penalty has been given at the other end of the pitch, or a penalty in a red card. No, specifically, the penalty is only given because it's a goal.

15:42So when I made it, the laws were slightly different, but as it sounds now, it would have to be, there's a corner, say the keeper's come up, there's a corner the ball strikes somebody on the arm but it's not deliberate you know it wouldn't in all the running things be a foul but the ball drops at his feet and he smacks it and because the keeper's out it goes in you can't give the goal because he controlled the ball with his arm and therefore it's a penalty so as that ball is approaching the goal what you need is one of you you're about to get if that ball crosses very fast you need aaron lennon you need aaron lennon at his peak to sprint up and turn that away from goal or it's a penalty that's that's yeah wilson scenario it's not a quirky thing that happens it's a this is an obvious flaw in the laws that they haven't thought about because the laws are nonsense around barb and actually the point i'm really you want them to put it why because if they're keepers up oh no yeah yeah if they're keepers up you've won sorry i i don't think it's been made at all clear of what the wilson scenario was there.

16:44No, definitely didn't clear it up either. It definitely involved a counter-attack, didn't it? Yeah. In its original formulation they've changed the laws since. But what I'm saying, as the laws stand at the moment... Sorry, where's the counter-attack in the scenario he just outlined? Well, it's a very direct counter-attack in the sense that it's shot from 100 yards. Oh, okay, right. I'm totally confused now. Anyway, I'm with you. What's the Glendening? scenario? Call it this Glendening scenario because it's specifically the kind of thing that might happen to me if I was good enough to be a footballer.

17:23It's the opening day of the season I'm the star striker for Sunderland. I score this fantastic goal 89th minute to win a game against Newcastle and I wheel away in celebration I go full lua lua and do a series of somersaults land awkwardly and knacker my cruciate and then the goal is ruled out for a fractional offside so the goal doesn't stand but I'm out for nine months with a cruciate knee injury suffered from celebrating a goal that no longer stands. So the goal doesn't stand, but the injury does. OK, well, thank you, Barry. I enjoyed your scenario. That'll do for part one. Nick says, can we get a voice note from Mark Langdon on his ideal Christmas dinner?

18:17I assume he's not a sprouts man. Before we end part one, then, some festive messages from the Football Weekly family. And you might be in luck, Nick.

18:29Max, Barry, Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. Also to the listeners, viewers might be able to see these trees that look like Christmas trees but aren't Christmas trees behind me. Cheers. It's Jonathan here. Merry Christmas to all the Football Weekly listeners. To producer Joel and all of the team at The Guardian and to Max and to Barry and to all the other guests and to all the people who sat down to Poster Coglu this year. hello Dan Bardell here just wanted to say Merry Christmas to all the Guardian Football Weekly listeners and of course now watchers because the show is on YouTube as well and also a very merry merry Christmas to Max Rushton and Barry Glenn Denning thank you for what you do for the show you are two absolute heroes have a great Christmas and as always up the villa big up to Max, Barry and all of the award winning now I must say Guardian Football Weekly crew It's been a great year.

19:28I've thoroughly enjoyed coming on as I always do. Everybody, drink, have sex and dance responsibly during this very, very, very, very enjoyable and emotive period of the year. And a big shout out to all the listeners that tune in to every single podcast. In particular, the Chelsea fans who for two years in a row have told me they have been in a title race. And for two years in a row, I've told you back that you are not and were not in a title race. Yippee-ki-yay, motherfuckers.

20:27Thank you for putting up with our nonsense. I should say my nonsense. Other people make very sensible points all the time. Merry Christmas, Max and Barry. Merry Christmas to all the listeners. Happy Christmas, everyone. Bon Natale a tutti. I think I make the same joke every year about eating your panettone, but do eat your panettone or your pandoro if you prefer, because they're both delicious. Time for your French lesson. To all of you, a very happy Christmas and an excellent year.

21:26Yorkshire puddings followed by sticky toffee pudding and custard. Happy New Year. Thank you more Football Weekly regulars with Christmas messages for you. I hope they were nice. I haven't heard them yet. My friends Rob and Josh say they've fixed football, Wilson, in this way. Flat ticket prices play on as a general refereeing principle that trumps other rules. You can pick out your favourite for this. Penalty for handball only if it's deliberate and stops the ball going in. Fouled player takes the penalty. I'm a big fan of that one. You can kick off as quickly as you want after the opponent have scored mandatory score from the halfway line challenge at halftime no seedings in tournaments european cup is played only by league winners return of the cup winners cup man city demoted to the national league starting 11 must have five players from the home nation league cup renamed after staple food items milk bread egg etc your thoughts they're terrible oh happy christmas to you any other well they're just it's just like i mean they're just terrible and the only one that might conceivably work is naming the league cup after food products okay maybe removing seeding sometimes but the champions only in the in the champions cup so you so the stronger tournament then becomes the europa league well how does that help anybody you know it's a cosmetic change it doesn't address the basic problem of inequality handball only for balls going in well so you're allowed to just sort of you know catch the ball and punt it clear if the ball isn't going in what does deliberate mean we know we can't prove what that is what's the point of this i'm just a messenger your mate is terrible here wilson get rid of get better mate okay i am a flat ticket price well you're charging the same for for yes Manchester United versus Arsenal as you are for Dagenham versus Crawley.

23:20I mean, I quite like a fouled player takes the penalty, John. Oh, but he might be injured. What do you do then? Well, even better. Even better. You know, does that escape to victory or something? No, I mean, I quite like that you can kick off as quickly as you want after the opponent scores. That's good. You know, because there are some ludicrous celebrations now for, you know, a goal scored by, you know, Portsmouth, to name a club that Jonathan has already cried. Why are Portsmouth not allowed to celebrate? Well, that was just a random one. But, you know, he slagged them off compared to Tottenham standing in the game.

23:58I think that would revolutionise the game if everyone was allowed to celebrate goals as much as they want, except Portsmouth, who are only allowed to do Pathé News-style manly handshakes as they run back to the halfway line. Not even a shake of the hand, just an acknowledgement of the eyebrow and then back to the halfway line and continue. That's all that you're like, that's the Pompey dictator. No, even a smile and the goal is disallowed. They have to literally, they're not allowed anything. Yeah. So like that year they won the FA Cup. Yeah. If anyone smiled at the trophy lift, we're taking it away from you.

24:43Oh, look, they were just some ideas. No such thing as a bad idea there. Thank you. I think there were several bad ideas. Oh, I quite like no seedings in tournaments. Is that... I think that could... Yeah, I like that. Well, I mean, it wouldn't affect, say, if it's the Euros or the World Cup. It wouldn't adversely affect Ireland, put it that way. And not because we're not. We wouldn't be in it. If we were there, we're going to be low seed. Andy Simi says, who should win the second FIFA Peace Prize, Barry? As far as I know, they now have a committee appointed to see who will get the second one. I think we all know Gianni and Fantino decided who would win the first one.

25:31So I was thinking it would be funny. And it's not entirely implausible that this committee, in the spirit of brown nosery that accompanies this prize, they awarded it to Gianni Infantino. The self-award. So FIFA awards the Peace Prize to its own president just to keep the feedback loop of self-congratulations well and truly closed. possibly Tommy Robinson could get it. He's, I mean, he's football adjacent. I think he's a Newton Town fan. He's an England fan. He once spent three days in jail in Zurich after he was arrested for protesting on the rooftop of FIFA HQ because FIFA weren't going to let England players wear poppies on their jerseys.

26:32so in the spirit of extending an olive branch uh give give it to tommy robson who's a very peaceful man i well i i think what are you going to look at is it's one thing to win the peace prize the hard thing is to retain it i think trump's got in his locker i think he could dominate the early years of the peace prize as well madrid dominated the early years of european cup and i think one of the things that really cemented the european cup in the popular consciousness was a truly great early champion and i think donald trump can be that for the fifa peace prize any advances i'd like to make a prediction for uh december 20 33 that i think muhammad bin salman might be a shoe-in for the fifa peace prize i've just got this feeling i don't know why but I'm calling it now.

27:29I'm calling it now. Well, he's another conspicuously peaceful man who has modernised his country largely through sport. So he would be a worthy winner given the current criteria. Ticks a lot of boxes.

27:50Mr. Lancaster says, how many combined West Ham and Tottenham managers will have been sacked by the time the new Universal Studios in Bedford opens. Just for context, the entertainment company said the transformative project was expected to attract more than 8 million visitors a year, could open in 2031. So in 2031, what are we now, 2025? Five years, guys. How many Tottenham and West Ham managers will have been sacked? I reckon West Ham do about one a year and Spurs do about one every, one and a half, two years, depending if they are somehow maintaining a Europa League run. So that's five from West Ham and either two or three from Spurs.

28:29Maybe West Ham do get on a good run. So let's say seven combined. Seven combined. If somebody, I mean, obviously we need one listener to just keep an eye on when the Universal Studios in Bedford open and then take some note of these guesses. These things never open on time, do they? So it could be sort of 2032, right? It actually opens. Yeah, it could be. I mean, that's the thrill of the quiz, I guess. Yeah, and I'll stick with seven. I've said seven. I'll stick with seven. Stick with seven. Okay, John Bruin. I suppose is there a crossover where Ange ends up managing West Ham? So you've got like a, yeah, and then Thomas Frank does a stint at West Ham.

29:06Yeah, he could do that. He could go there. Could things go really bad and Graham Potter ends up, you know, as a caretaker at Tottenham? so it could be a big crossover here i mean what how are we working this out no i think that's i think they're all they they all individually count if you know if ang gets sacked by west ham that is still another sacking do the uh the new owners of tottenham new owners i say the new owners that have been essentially heritage the club today did they decide that daniel was right all along and bring nuno back to tottenham his rightful kingdom where he was so popular last time yeah also possible but you know you have to factor all these into your guess what i need john is your guess because when we do the christmas special in 2031 we'll answer okay if of course while we're on a ride at universal studios bedford well i'm going to say west ham it's once every 18 months a manager sacks every 18 months possibly they bring back one manager again so maybe graham potter gets another go does that count uh and then yeah spurs every two years is really isn't it that's your boom and bust cycle so i can't work out the sums on that but it's three plus four and half or something seven and a half managers yeah seven and a half okay go we got there in the end is it universal studios in the states where they have the jaws ride i mean possibly i don't really have anything of interest to contribute to the manager where sam spurs manager thingy me but i do remember i think on the rest is entertainment podcast marina hyde and richard osman were talking about this universal studios thing in bedford and richard osman revealed the interesting tidbit of information that on that jaws ride when the shark comes out to inverted commas attack the people on the ride, the place where the shark comes out, if instead of looking at the shark, because everyone looks right to look at the shark, if you look the other way, that's where Steven Spielberg's office is.

31:20But no one ever sees him because everyone's looking the other direction. So that's where he built his office. Does he get one in Bedford? Yeah. I don't know. Or will he be fired by the Spurs hierarchy where they realise they've made a mistake and they wanted a really good documentary so they've got steven spielberg to manage spurs um arne says we're on to wilson's books uh which managers coaches footballers have you met that said they have read inverting the pyramid well sean dyche definitely has he mentioned it uh in a press conference shortly after taking over nottingham forest so in what what context did he mention it what did he say he was he was being asked i think about the return of more direct football and he said that if you if you read inverting the pyramid you would see that uh old ideas are always recurring and nothing lasts forever and he did say it was a very good read that that was his exact phrase uh so i've always had a lot of time for sean dyes as you know i've always been a big fan of his and i think he's proving his worth at nottingham forest craig levine definitely has read it david pleat has read it um i don't know beyond that okay that's That's a good three.

32:31Did you feel 10 feet tall when Sean Dive says, if you've read Inverning the Pyramid, you'll know? Well, it was very early in his not imposed tenure, so I was a little anxious that, given how his Everton tenure ended, that, and given that Craig Levine, he talked about it when he played that 4-6-0 against Czech Republic, which didn't work. So I was slightly worried things would go awry, but it turns out he's absorbed lessons of the book very well. Fair play. Well done, Sean. Actually, that was what I was going to ask, actually. Are you hated in Scotland because you begat the 4-6-0? Yes, but I mean, that's not to do with that.

33:08It's not the influence of Luciano Spalletti. It's Jonathan Wilson that brought this pox on the Scottish game. And the fact that they've... I think he's Australian, isn't he, Lyndon Dykes, that they had to get a... He's actually find a striker. He was the answer to no longer playing 4-6-0. And Steve Clarke, of course. Just Steve Clarke. Has Steve Clarke read Inverted and Pooh? I'm guessing no. Well, somebody maybe could ask him before they have those, whatever friendlies they've got in March. Okay. I'm not sure anyone will, but if one of the press packets, the Scottish press pack is listening. Ewan, if you're listening.

33:43Get Ewan Murray on the case. Rory says, Happy Christmas, team. Quick question for the Christmas mailbag. What football books, recent or classic, would you recommend asking Santa for? P.S. I've read most of Jonathan's back catalogue already, thoroughly enjoyed them, so read this part out, which will cover the plug and he can answer it more truthfully cheers uh rory so a a football book past or present that you would recommend for our listeners uh wilson i'm really struggling not to say states of play by our friend miguel delaney but i think i am going to say that because it is really good and it does tell you what's going on and also he'll be furious if i don't say that among the thugs by bill buford i read recently which came out in 1990 and it's it's a much better book than i was expecting i was like what does a if it's sort of member of the american literati what what can he possibly tell me about hooliganism but actually it turns out quite a lot because he he got quite involved with united hooligans in the 80s and sort of admits he kind of got carried away by it and sort of got a real thrill from the violence so it was a kind of a really sort of revealing of of how intoxicating that that adrenaline rush can be helmut shurn's autobiography i've read recently is really good and there's a bit on uh the firebonger dresden where he was an air raid warden is just four or five pages of absolutely incredible descriptive prose whether it's a football book or not it's uh so moving when he loses his father for three days his father's 87 and he's sort of searching through the ruined city looking for his dad um so yeah that that's that's i think i came out in 1978 but i'm sure you can still still get hold of a copy so yeah they'd be my three i don't really read football books i don't read football books I don't read listen to football podcasts because I spend an inordinate amount of time talking about writing about and watching football so when I have downtime I prefer to read books that aren't about football ideally a good murder Eamon Dunphy's It's Only Game was considered one of the great football books when it came out.

35:48Dunphy, this journeyman, Irish footballer, and now professional contrarian. After he retired, he became a journalist and pundit and broadcaster, not just writing about football, but all sorts of Irish politics, that kind of thing, professional contrarian. So that's a good book. I remember reading one. I was just trying to Google it there. It was like a fly on the wall or behind the scenes book at Coventry City. Gordon Strachan was in charge. Some bloke was invited behind the scenes to, you know, spend time with the team. And he wrote a book. I can't remember what it's called. I really enjoyed that.

36:33I like all Michael Calvin's football books. I think he's a great writer about the game. I have, if I look over my right shoulder here, I have The Power and the Glory, A New History of the World Cup, signed by the author, Jonathan Wilson, which I spent£25 on at his book launch, only to discover the following day that I could have got it for£12 somewhere else. so that makes me sad Wilson owes me 13 pounds and so I'm going to try and read that over Christmas and I've heard it is very good not just from the author I've heard from other people that it's very good Ellis James was bigging it up recently actually yeah but Ellis I think would sort of fanboy Wilson a bit too much I don't think you can trust Ellis' judgment on Wilson books I would say.

37:28John? Yeah I'm looking just on my shelf there and between a book about Bob Dylan and one about Hawkwind the power and the glory is there for which I paid Barry nothing but there you go.

37:45I also have read Among the Thugs years ago I managed to speak to a few of the people that but actually interviewed in that for a piece I did on Hooghism. But actually, a football book that I like very much is this. It is called Football is a Funny Old Game. It's by St. Ingreavesy. Yes. And I got this when I was 11 or 12 from my mum and dad. I'll read one passage from it talking about fans that they'd meet. I won't do it in Greasy's accent, but imagine it in a Dagenham accent. I think that's where Greasy was from. It was from that way anyway. There was old Johnny Goldstein, Johnny the Stick. He used to deal in tickets and his minder, one-armed Lou.

38:31Johnny was a bit tasty and he used to have an interest in a club called Suki's, which I hasten to add I never frequented, but was well known to visiting teams. The Crays were regular visitors. So that gives you a nice taste of 60s London, 60s football from Jimmy Greaves there. Yeah, all the banter, good Shankly stories from the Saints. I picked that up for£0.01, you know, 0.1 pence, essentially. Whatever the decimalisation is these days. Very good. Enjoyed. It costs 1D. It's really good. It's a big, too bomb. The Coventry City book I was talking about is called Staying Up by Rick Gakowski. Got it.

39:19And he's a Coventry fan who was allowed behind the scenes for the 1997-98 season. And if I'm not mistaken, it's in this book that it's revealed Noel Whelan was playing up front for Coventry that season. and he was a young lad, fond of a nightclub and a pint and a late night. So Gordon Strachan made him move into his house. So he had to live with Mr. and Mrs. Strachan so they could keep an eye on young Noel just to try and curb his errant ways. So it obviously worked because they stayed up. But what a squad there, you know. What are we talking? We're talking... That's got to be Hadji. Chippo. The Yusuf Chippo, isn't it?