Arsenal are Premier League champions and the latest twist in Spygate – Football Weekly

0:00This is The Guardian.

0:30Nicky Bandini:bonfires, his technical area jousting in his tight trousers justified then. It worked and now they have a Champions League final to think about. Manchester City couldn't keep it going until the end of the season and now it's widely predicted Pep will leave at the end of the season. 17 major trophies, 115 charges, 375 so-so goods. The Premier League will miss him. So then who could keep the last day of the Premier League exciting? Spurs of course losing 2-1 to Chelsea because they always lose to Chelsea. They now need a point at home to Everton. Oh man. And then Southampton thrown out of the playoffs after admitting they spied on three clubs during the championship season.

1:03Nicky Bandini:Surely they didn't need to spy on Oxford. Saints players might sue their own club for potential lost earnings. What a mess. Then there's the Scotland World Cup squad. Neymar getting in for Brazil. An impressive spot in the wild of someone absolutely integral to the success of Football Weekly with so little to discuss. It's podcasts like these where we really earn our corn. All that plus your questions and that's today's Guardian Football Weekly.

1:26Nicky Bandini:on the panel today barry glendennig welcome hi max hello sam dalling hello max rushton representing arsenal of course nikki bandini hello nick hi max and also representing arsenal from the tuesday club at producer tayo tayo papula hello tayo good morning max yeah that's a happy good morning isn't it okay then arsenal champions first time in 22 years they beat burnley 1-0 on Monday night. And then last night, Manchester City could only draw at Bournemouth. 14th league title, Arteta the second youngest manager to win the Premier League after Jose in 05. Arsenal so far have 32 clean sheets in all competitions, leading Europe's big five leagues.

2:05Nicky Bandini:They won eight games in the Premier League 1-0, just shy of their club record of nine. Jokwe is their top scorer with 14. And Arteta will become the longest serving manager in England's top four divisions when Pep's departure from City after 10 years is confirmed. Our mate Amy Lawrence, formerly of this parish says I can still hear fireworks tooting horns singing in my neighborhood London N5 was a mad old carnival tonight Islington came out in all its multicultural splendor people ran out of their houses and this community celebrated with absolute abandon the look on people's faces was so beautiful Tayo you were out there in the throng how was it it's felt incredible and the way that the area filled up I watched it on the Holloway Road and the atmosphere before kickoff was as fraught as if Arsenal were playing themselves really.

2:53People were out on the streets half with celebration in mind but also with this fear that has gripped all Arsenal fans I think for the last four years. The spilling out onto the streets did feel spontaneous, organic, electric and full of relief basically. I mean the dancing in the pub, the free from desire which wouldn't have been my anthem and it's certainly very different from the last time we won the league. that explosion is what everyone's been kind of waiting for and everyone went spontaneously to the roundabout outside the ground and we thought we were early because we were quite near the ground all the steps as you look from the stadium were were full already the police were kind of already cordoning off streets but the atmosphere around the area spread out basically with the stadium being the kind of center of it but the ripples of it by the time I left it did feel like carnival

3:45Sam Dalling:um how was it for you Nikki okay I'm I'm gutted that I wasn't up there with Tyo enjoying it in London it's it's been a strange thing I mean obviously um I've talked about the podcast plenty before but I have been technically still I'm a season ticket holder since I was a teenager but these days I don't live in London so I'm not there nearly as often I think probably like quite a few Arsenal fans even though logically I thought it's a good chance we could win it tonight because Bournemouth are a good team and and this is definitely the one And I actually sort of didn't let myself believe it could happen.

4:17Sam Dalling:And so knowing I was doing this podcast, knowing I probably needed to keep an eye on the Tottenham game as well, to talk about it on this podcast, I didn't go anywhere. I watched it at home. And when it happened, it was like, oh, oh shit, this actually happened. I called my brother because my brother's the one who I always went to Arsenal with. So I called my brother and had a voice call with him and enjoyed that moment. So I didn't get the moment that Tayo did. And I'm so happy for Tayo and everyone who got to enjoy that up in North London because that sounds absolutely bloody magic.

4:40Nicky Bandini:Yeah, I just wonder if either of you, because Bournemouth scored and then, which must have been a great moment like that, you know, for you guys, like what a goal it was, a beautiful move. I guess there was only a second tyre, right? David Brooks has missed those two chances. Haaland scores and then I think Savino is coming down the left and it's like, is this the moment? I don't know, I don't know if that felt like hours or it was just so quick that you thought, okay, we're fine because it was right at the end and I think it was a Foden missed kick or something. I think Junior Kruppi's goal, which you're right, was a massive release and I think there was there's a beauty in the fact that it was the same kind of finish as has been torturing me for the last few weeks Jeremy Doku's equaliser against Everton has been living rent-free in my head trying to work out whether that is going to matter or not and that fear as I talk about with that Doku goal is kind of the fear even last night City have done this before City the word is inevitable and you never know and we haven't done it for 22 years so so that fear was exactly there we have had this in our head if we win it you know we need to win our own games we need to win our own games you can say as a mantra that's the facade but inside you're crumbling in the sense that I wish for once somebody could do us a favor if it was going to be anyone in this running it was going to be Bournemouth we've had this game everyone's had this game kind of circled but I've just lived in fear of City always doing it and then when Carlin scores that close to the end there's enough mental gymnastics going on to not be able to celebrate or even feel anything less and paralysed until the final whistle.

6:11That's how it was for me.

6:12Sam Dalling:It wasn't even just mental gymnastics. I think there was an extra element of it that I almost didn't become aware of most of the game. Again, things you know logically, but you don't feel. Because Bournemouth played really well. I have to say that Bournemouth played a really good game. I thought they deserved, if you just take it as an abstract game, I thought they deserved the three points in the end and they threw it away. But you realise in that last minute, in that last moment, including on the Haaland goal, when the defending just goes a bit and you've got not just mental gymnastics, but players attempting overhead kicks in the air and you're thinking, what are you doing?

6:40Sam Dalling:The Bournemouth are playing for their spot in Europe as well. And Bournemouth, who've had an incredible season, who have this incredible moment of qualifying for Europe, I think could yet get into the Champions League, although it's now all reliant on Villa, isn't it? The feeling that, like, you're not allowed to panic. We've all panicked. We're all panicking. You're not allowed to panic. You're not the ones who are at the centre of the story, which, of course, they are. They're at the centre of their own story. But you're just locked up in your own moment then as a fan, aren't you? And thinking about it as an Arsenal fan.

7:07Sam Dalling:and you're just begging them to keep it together. And yeah, when I think about the cinematic moments of a season, because the journalists, you pull things out, don't you? And I think everyone who's an Arsenal fan is going to go back to Declan Rice after the lost to Man City going, it's not over and that moment. Whereas actually, I think that the flip of that is maybe when you cut to Haaland after he scores that goal, he's kind of saying, I don't think he actually says it's over, but his body language and his face is too late. It's too late.

7:36Nicky Bandini:Yeah. Yeah. Barry, you have, as for years, said Arsenal fans will be insufferable if they win the title. How are they being so far? Yeah, I knew you'd make me the rowdy, rowdy piper of the piece and try and get me to piss on the parade. And I'm not really going to do that because we've mentioned Amy Lawrence. Nick is here, Theo is here, Jordan, I think is a voice note. these are good people and Arsenal supporting people, you know, Philippe I know how much this is going to mean to him and Andrew Mangan of Arseblog, Perry Groves I know a bit, friend of the pod Brendan Hunt and other friends of mine who I spend a lot of time with are all Arsenal fans, those particular ones I spend a lot of time with will be insufferable but I've I've kicked them out with the WhatsApp group so uh as soon as soon as that final whistle went in boring that they were gone but i'm pleased with the rest of them because they're good people and i i as i say i know how much this means to them it was hard not to be moved by the scenes outside um the emirates last night it was it was you know harking back to to fever pitch which listeners of a certain age will remember.

8:59Look, we all knew Arsenal had a good enough team to win this title and the question was over their mentality. It would have been demonstrably hilarious if they had bottled it, but they haven't. So you have to give them their flowers for that. Their style of play is criticised a lot. I don't like watching them play, but it's worked for them. I think a lot of Arsenal fans probably don't like watching them play because their teams gives them nervous breakdowns on on a weekly basis. So I don't think it's unfair to say or unreasonable to say that I find them boring, but they've won the title and congratulations.

9:38Sam Dalling:Barry and I recently had a sit-down with Gigi Buffon, which is a lot of fun, but I was actually thinking last night about a previous interview I did with him where he was talking about winning the World Cup and he was saying how actually after Italy won the World Cup he felt a little bit hollow. He was like, actually what I loved was the moments when I was on the pitch and my heart was beating out of my chest and I could feel that everything was coming. And it just came back to me for some reason watching the Burnley game on Monday, which of course maybe one more time to talk about, I don't know.

10:04But the exact opposite.

10:06Sam Dalling:I could not wait for it to be done. I hated every single second of it. And thank goodness it's over. Strangely, Barry might set me off again because that was quite strangely emotional hearing about some of those people that Barry mentioned who are my friends as well. and despite the slightly horrendous kind of banter era that we live amongst it is about people and the people that I was with to watch the match with the people who I sit with people who I podcast with when we got to the the ground they were just bumping into first of all random people people who listen to us who came up to to join in as well and be feel part of that community and of course the complete random strangers very much like fever pitch who do come running up to you because you are sharing this moment of joy it did feel really being about people and i am very very lucky to live right here in london and be and having been at the center of it yesterday but all those people who are part of this kind of community online they are real people and outside of the trolling and that fear of not only winning it but fear of being the arsenal friend in your group who is going to have to suffer a summer of all of that and believe me that fear has just been writ so large for so long has not left the group

11:37that that kind of fear is there but as i say it's just been about being surrounded by people in real life, real hugging, real jumping up and down. That is not to say that the insufferable part isn't to follow because I think I would say we've earned that. Well, I was wondering about that. I mean, it's not the point because, of course, the point is the good stuff. But it is a lovely side dish and it will be served as however cold it is, it's coming. and we do have the chance to shout champions in the ground next season, champions to our friends all summer and champions on pods like this and to all the kind of haters, as I say, buckle up.

12:21Nicky Bandini:Yeah, I mean, and at Palace Away, which will be the deadest rubber in the history of football as you both have European finals next week. Sam, sorry, you've been quiet for a long time. A question from Jim that says, Arteta's been mocked for some of the mad shit he's done, pickpockets, pens, fire pits, etc. but now he's won something will he get an easier time for these quirks successful managers in the 70s and 80s got up to all kinds of nonsense and were merely labeled as characters yeah it's it's been strange and it's been lovely to listen to it to all this by the way i was quite happy just sitting there because i i can't relate directly to that feeling but i think as a football fan it is those moments that you want it's like the only context in the world where you can enjoy a proper hug with a randomer um not say anything and it just be completely acceptable and you know exactly why it's happening arteta like i mean i've joined in the mocking of him uh as well it's like it's because it's an easy thing to do and i think in the way the world is set up even though we all don't want to be that person it is very difficult not just to get drawn in with those kind of cynical off-the-cuff comments um if someone puts themselves out there right and in particular when you're operating in this elite level and your every movement is now basically on social media it's recorded like it's it's a bit weird when you go to the to games and you have the privilege of sort of media access you see that in order to get all this footage the entire every moment someone like michael i've had today he's got people with cameras in his face like he's meant to just carry on as if that's normal and it and it's not normal the scrutiny is huge and i'm not really answering the question there but i mean i mean the 70s and 80s they didn't have that level right and yes they were characters and maybe with the game has become so uh what's the word for it but like a devoid of characters like we stripped a lot of that away it's all been about efficiency and i look the the media training and people aren't characters anymore so we're so used to not having that but that when someone comes along and does things that are a little bit different and takes a risk and tries something is a little bit eccentric then that's very easy for us to mock so I hope I hope that does stuff I don't think it will um I suspect people will probably double down right in the same way that Arsenal fans will have their little bit of insufferability and people will will double down but I mean it's been a a long-term project hasn't it and it is actually really nice to see like I have a soft spot for Arsenal and the transformation um in that so I lived up by the ground for about eight years um and up by the Highbury Barn and it's a place where on a match you wouldn't necessarily necessarily know there's a match on there in the sort of end of Wenger Emery years I actually went to about 20 games a season without really trying for four or five years because tickets were so freely available like back when Twitter was a place for good just accidentally turning up there was a couple of times where I was so you know it'd be half an hour before the game and someone would be giving away a free ticket on Twitter because they didn't want to go and I could just pick up a really good seat and the atmosphere like it just wasn't existent and I've almost felt a bit like oh I wish it had been I mean these you couldn't get a ticket but a couple of times I've worked there to see the transformation in that place I think it's easy for a fan of a club to say the atmosphere is brilliant but actually when you're a bit more neutral about it like it used to be funny going there right I'd go because either Arsenal would be pretty good because once in a while they were in that time or they'd lose to someone who they didn't think they were going to lose to and then And it was hilarious watching the season ticket holders' reactions.

15:53So, yeah, I'm going to sign off that long ramble saying, actually, I am quite pleased for Arsenal. It's nice. I wish I was still. I don't wish I was in London very often anymore, but I do wish I was around last night to see those scenes.

16:04Nicky Bandini:It's interesting, Barry. It's interesting what Sam says about a long-term project. Like six and a half years it's taken Arteta. And that is, you know, the amount of managers that just get sacked. This kind of makes that worth it, right? And OK, there's never been a season where Arsenal are four off the rails, right? so there's no reason to sack him. But there's always talk. If it's not this year, he's got to go. And now he's got this platform. You sort of think he could be there for a long, long time. Yeah, he could. I think he's helped by the fact that I don't think the Arsenal owners care whether they win anything or not as long as they qualify for the Champions League every season.

16:39Obviously, winning something is good, but it's not the be-all and end-all for the club owners. if Arsenal had come up short this season would he have got sacked? Probably not and I think he'd probably have gone on to win it eventually like he's six years I think he should have won it sooner personally but and he has spent a lot of money to win the title but I think he deserves and I'm not an arbitrator I find him a deeply annoying man and the thing is he's probably alright in real life He's probably an interesting fella to sit down for a couple of pints with or a couple of glasses of wine. I'm very impressed with the way he galvanised the team and the fans after that wobble against, and it was a big wobble, against Man City and Bournemouth.

17:34So I'd take my hat off to him for that. Ty, did you want to come in? Yeah, well, I was just thinking it was kind of, there's a romantic element to the fact that the journey sort of began and ended at Bournemouth, if you will. like Arteta's first game was against Bournemouth ended one all as well actually and it took me back to the era one of the people I bumped into yesterday was a friend of mine who'd made me watch all or nothing which I refused to watch in the time that Sam's kind of talking about I was just like I didn't want anything I wanted to have as little to do with the inner workings of the club apart from you know going every week and I think that program I was thinking about that last night That programme made people who weren't sure about Arteta but supported Arsenal like him, but people who weren't sure about Arteta and didn't support Arsenal, it kind of calcified their opinions about him.

18:28And he is an odd, eccentric, intense fellow. And we've got enough sceptics in our own fan group about Mikel Arteta. But with all the weird stuff that you mentioned before, to Sam's point, I think if you're dealing with absolute elite sportsmen, then maybe you have to pull out a random way of doing things to engage them in an era of short attention spans and but still elite talent. And he has managed to do that. And we have improved every season. I also think that we should have won the league sooner. But there has been a juggernaut in front of us who have many ways, as well as many good players, to stay ahead of us.

19:14And that's been a massive issue. And that's been something that he has fought. And I know there isn't time for that in the banter era, but that really does need to be taken into account that we were playing a really, really good team with an elite manager and elite opportunities available to them as well.

19:30Sam Dalling:I think it's worth just reminding everyone as well. I think Sam touching it with the atmosphere at Arsenal and talking about the fact that it wasn't a happy place to be because it wasn't. It was a really unhappy stadium to be at. But just on the pitch, I mean, I think they were 11th when he took over. They'd finished 8th the season before and I think they were 11th the day he took over. They were eighth again. It wasn't a quick fix. And I think that actually, listen, temper this, because I don't think it's necessarily the bit that I'm the most keen to focus on or that want to make the centre of the story.

20:01Sam Dalling:But I slightly disagree with Baz about the ownership not caring. I actually think since Josh Kroenke's taken over, kind of has put his hand in the situation and worked with everyone and tried to get a team that really does win and isn't just ticking over, which was the impression when Stan Kroenke first was involved in the club. A lot of Arsenal fans did look at this and go, this American doesn't care. He's just here, thinks it's a money-making enterprise. And actually, I think that has shifted in the club leadership. I think there has been a real movement towards winning and a long-term plan for winning.

20:30Sam Dalling:And I think patience with Arteta, bearing in mind that first COVID hit season was a mess. And they had some real things to unpick there as well. I mean, it's easy to forget now that there was a lot of wages stuck on players who weren't contributing. there were situations in terms of personalities that weren't working even players who for a while we really appreciated like Aubameyang um it was it was a very unhappy dressing room and and Arteta made in those periods when it was at its worst he made some quite brave decisions actually around Arteta and Hozil and all those players and knowing when he could go do you know what I need to say even if it costs us wins right now we're going to to put these people aside and and focus on the long term.

21:14Sam Dalling:And yes, they have spent heaps of money. I know everyone brings up the billion figure, and it's absurd. It's all absurd money because modern football at the top level is absurd. But when you compare the combined net spend and wages to Man City, United, I think even Chelsea, is still not actually at the top of that pile. So I'm not saying anyone needs to cry poor. They're not crying poor. They've spent extraordinary amounts of money. but the idea that they've just bought it also isn't true they've they've competed in a setting where they're up against huge huge financial powerhouses and they've won't can we please stop talking about arson now i'm gonna be slightly nauseous well i was gonna say i was gonna move on

21:55Nicky Bandini:because uh tayo mentioned odd eccentric fellows which does bring us to pep guagliola sam and uh you know many have reported nothing official from city yet that he's on his way 17 major trophies 20 if you include community shields but you know him and artessa do but no one else does six premier leagues including 100 point season three fa cups five league cups a champions league a super cup a fifa club world cup in 2023 i don't remember that does anybody 115 unresolved charges um with mareska set to take over i mean there's a lot to there's a lot to unpick with man city isn't it and they were close this season to having an amazing to a triple i mean that's It's not a terrible season, even if it feels like it today.

22:37It's definitely not a terrible season. I mean, he's still not confirming it, isn't he? I think John Broome was down there last night and the post-match comments. Guardiola is still saying, well, you know, I need to speak to the chairman first, basically, and you'll know when there's any news. I quite liked the almost timing of it. I could almost see, like, just trying to steal a little bit of limelight. I almost imagine sort of Pep and Maresca like in Wagamama's on Monday night going, oh, you know, Arsenal are winning. They're going to be writing all about them. There's nothing we can do about it.

23:09Oh, well, we could, someone could text Ornstein and tell him that I might be leaving and that might blow it all up. So, but I feel for all the sort of chief football writers this weekend because everyone is going to be writing about Pep. And what more can you really say? like everything has been said and nothing needs saying similar to arteta right to get to that elite level to be one of the best in the world at whatever you do and whatever the definition of normal is in a person it doesn't really exist but i just don't think you can get there to that level because of what it takes like by just being in inverted commas normal i mean he is a super that's

23:52Nicky Bandini:an issue for me sam because i'm quite normal and that means i can't get to the top of broadcasting doesn't it just because it's been holding you back all these years but you just need to find a few just set fire to a few things in the background no fair enough yeah good idea you'd be absolutely fine but he like he's a superhuman football manager and would i want to be his mate i don't know i don't know if i could cope with that intensity he's one of those people that maybe everyone has in their group that they like having around but as soon as they walk out of the room everyone else just relaxes a little bit because you never quite know what's going to it's like oh anything could have happened while he was in the room and we can now all breathe um and if it is the end of his Manchester City tenure which I think it is looking likely right hey I would love him to go to Barcelona just to wind Mourinho up that would be a brilliant power or that would be excellent um last thing when Alex Ferguson left Manchester United he'd a fair play to me he'd squeezed everything out of that squad and people have been talking about oh will pep do another year because actually this squad is on the up he's you know he's been building it again and he brought in gay and semenyo in january so actually he's leaving it in a pretty good place um for whoever comes next who sounds like it's going to be enzo mareska which i think is admirable as well in itself yeah yeah but i mean we will have time to talk about mareska and city after the world cup But did you have anything to add on Pep?

25:16Well, look, the 115 charges can't be overlooked. And there's every chance, there's credible evidence that his entire empire, this empire that was specifically tailored for him upon his arrival, or before his arrival, was built on a financially fraudulent foundation. Now, there's no evidence he was complicit in any financial chicanery. does that put a big asterisk beside what he did? I don't know. I don't think it does any more so than it would put an asterisk beside the achievements of Kevin De Bruyne or Bernardo Silva, just to name two, or Rodri. But you have to factor in the 115 charges. But he is a brilliant coach, no doubt about that.

26:04Nicky Bandini:Look, and if you get thrown out of the playoffs for a 12-year-old hiding behind a tree, what happens if you're found guilty for 150? Well, look, and we'll get to that. Hello, Northern Counties League. Just a couple of, before we move on, Robert says, does Baz think Christian Norgard will finally start this weekend? Yeah, his absolute one-man campaign to get Norgard to play. I'm telling you, if he doesn't start on Sunday, he might as well just hand in a transfer request on the spot. The only other thing from both two games was the exposed muscular buttocks of Piero and Caffier in the Burnley game and how he did extraordinarily well to protect his modesty.

26:42Nicky Bandini:Like he was completely exposed and yet not exposed at all. It was quite the moment. So well done, Piero. And to end part one, Ted says, can we get some voice notes from Jordan Jarrett-Brien and Philippe Eau Claire? Of course you can. And they're both great. Here they are, Jordan and Philippe. A good morning to you. A very good morning. A very, very good morning to you, Max, and to everyone. what to say. Is it joy? I suppose it's a form of joy, but it's more a kind of relief. The pain is over. It's like walking for hours and hours, climbing up hills, and there's always a new hill to climb, and then you fall, and then you get up, and then you fall again, but you finally get there and you slip afterwards, in a warm, hot bath.

27:38Nicky Bandini:It's delicious with a glass of champagne and loads of people outside telling you you don't deserve it. And that makes it even sweeter. And it's going to be absolutely lovely up until the Champions League final where nobody's expecting much really so everything could happen. Anything could happen. But yes, it's relief.

28:01Sam Dalling:And if people tell you it's not enough, if people say you're not the invincibles you're the unwatchables well relief is something absolutely wonderful to feel after a season like that we've gone through the grinder and strangely enough we've come out whole now explain that to me i don't know anyway i'm loving it i love everybody bye-bye oh we did it we did it i've not long gone back got back from the from the stadium. I was supposed to do a podcast this evening, my podcast. And we just decided, what are we doing? What are we doing? Let's just go to the stadium and be with our people. Oh, man, it was amazing.

28:50I think there was 150 ,000 people down there. It was incredible. First league in 22 years. We've been a banter club at the butt of people's jokes for so long. But for Mikel Arteta and these boys to finally get over the line and to do it without even having to play a game. We did our job. City couldn't do theirs. Something quite sweet in a former Chelsea player scoring the winner against Burnley and something also sweet in it being from a corner as well. Yeah, it's going to be a good summer.