Arsenal go top of the Premier League as Liverpool lose again – Football Weekly

0:00This is The Guardian.

0:30perfect long-range whack and Estevão late on. Maresca sent off for being happy. We can't have that. It means Arsenal go top. A tediously easy 2-0 win over West Ham. But they lost that one last year. This could be the year for Mikel. Spurs are third after a gritty, wet, windy, resolute win at Ellen Road. Pascal does strike twice. The kind of game that they probably would have lost last year, given they lost almost all their games last year. And just now losing games at Forest. 2-0 at Newcastle. Voltemada was very good. Manchester United are back. Well, who knows? But a win is a win. Everton somehow end Crystal Palace's unbeaten run.

1:01Another chance to say we're all happy to see Jack Grealish being happy. Bournemouth are fourth, Antoine Semenyo leading a comeback against Fulham. Doniel Marlon scores a couple of decent ones for Villa. Man City win at Brentford and more late agony for Wolves, still without a win for the irresponsible Vitor Pereira. Elsewhere, Russell Martin is sacked as Rangers manager after a complete disaster and Barry's header has been turned into a holiday game for all the family. We'll answer your questions as always and that's today's Guardian Football Weekly.

1:30On the panel today, John Bruin. Hello. Hello, Max. Welcome, Lucy Ward. Hey, Max. And hello, Barry Glendening. It's not for the first time, Max. I want to skip straight to the end to find out about this game. Again, it'll be an anti-climax, but it'll be a nice thing for people to hear at the end of the podcast. Shamik says, what happened this week on the football? Great question. Let's go through it all. We'll begin at Stamford Bridge, Chelsea 2, Liverpool 1. Maresca running down the line for that winner. I mean, a brilliant moment for Esteval. A great moment for Maresca, even though he was sent off.

2:01Producer Joel saying, does that make it four red cards in five? Not sure. But anyway, Barry, a huge win for him and a huge win for Chelsea. Yeah, and a worrying defeat for Liverpool. I think they don't lose three in a row too often and they're not playing well. But from a Chelsea perspective, I find it kind of difficult to get invested in Chelsea this season. I'm not sure why. I think there's so many. They seem to have about 100 players in their squad, and I can't keep track of them. And they play guys I don't know, which I have no idea who they are, which is rare for a big six team. I could be forgiven, I suppose, for not recognizing a few Burnley players or Leeds players because they've just come up.

2:44Mois Casado is turning out to be just a fantastic signing for Chelsea. Liverpool fans will be aware, obviously. They were looking on going, he was about to sign for us and then didn't. In terms of Liverpool's performance, there's just so many things wrong. And I presumed they'll just click into gear at some point and start winning while playing well instead of winning while playing well within themselves. and that's not happened. They're still not playing well, and now they've started to lose, and it's worrying. What do you do with Mo Salah, who I think he has three goals and a few assists, but he's clearly not the player he was in recent seasons.

3:32Do you do the unthinkable and drop him? Because I think you could see there were a few occasions in that game where he did his most sadder thing, cutting in from the right and trying to curl one inside the far post. And he was ballooning the ball over the bar. And you could see his teammates starting to get frustrated with him. And that is something I don't recall seeing before. So plenty for Arnazsla to think about over the next two weeks of international break. Yeah, I did try and lead with Chelsea losing. But I mean, Liverpool losing three in the row is the story, I guess. And do you know what, Max?

4:12Yeah, they're struggling to get the rhythm going. Liverpool, you know, integrating new signings have not hit the ground running, but that will happen. But I think from experience, I think from a human side, the grief of losing Jota just doesn't stop when all the tributes and the laying of flowers ends. This is, and I look at Salah and he just doesn't look happy at all. If you think about it as an adult, you sort of go into a place of work, which is always full of fun every single day. And one person now is not there and you still got to go and, you know, perform physically and mentally. I honestly think that that's got a lot to do with, and, you know, people, other fans will say that's just excuses, but I just think the combination of new players in and that affecting a lot a key part of the group is massive because it just doesn't go away.

5:11You know, everybody who knows who's lost someone close to them, it's particularly unexpectedly, particularly when they're young. It's very, very difficult to get your head around. And it's already quite pressurised being a Premier League footballer. And I honestly think that that just sort of tips the balance of performance. And it was never sustainable that they were going to keep scoring late winners. You know, that always was going to tip the balance at some point. But I do think the grief will play a massive part of it. No, I completely agree. And actually, it's difficult in a way because you don't, well, you can probably analyse every Liverpool game and at the end of it say, look, they are going through something.

5:44And I think we've talked about it before. We have talked about it before, John. But, you know, it's a really stark example of the fact that, you know, sort of all analysis of football is at some level quite superficial because we just don't know how any of these guys are feeling. and I was listening to another podcast talking about Salah's form and saying how bad it was and I was thinking exactly what you said Lucy which is we might be projecting we don't know clearly he was incredibly moved and like all the you know he had someone and football dressing rooms are quite sort of odd places anywhere in terms of how intense it is day to day and sort of how close you are to these people whether they're your friends or they're not so we might be projecting I don't know but I really get that sense John that this is something that we should never ever ignore for not just this season, but for these young men.

6:32It can't be dismissed because all of us will have or will experience this type of thing. And footballers are human beings. I do wonder that loss, in a strange way, affected the integration of those other new players because they're arriving at a club where there's this thing hanging over the other players that they've lost their friend and trying to be part of a group that actually shares something, which is deeply sad, might be very difficult for those new chaps coming in. And we have to, it seems a bit trite to put an asterisk, but you have to put that against Liverpool at the moment. Arne Slott spoke very well about this.

7:14But Arne Slott, of course, will also talk about the football matters, which are that a team is failing to integrate for whatever reason. and the changes he's making aren't coming off in a way that they did last season. So, whereas last season, you know, it was a genius move to put Ryan Gravenberts as a central midfielder. That's maybe not coming off in the same way this season. Florian Wurtz. Florian Wurtz was a pressing machine, I was told, in the Bundesliga. Maybe pressing in the Premier League isn't the same as in the Bundesliga because, I laugh at a joke, you might have to put in a tackle in the Premier League.

7:55You might have to throw in one. And he does a lot of running around, chasing after the ball, but I'm not sure he's quite up to the physical bit yet. And that will take time. Listen, when you've paid that much money for a play, you've got to give them time, even if people like us are already beginning to ask questions. But you've got this issue of Salah where the more cynical people are saying, well, he's got his new contract, No, I don't think that really works. I think Salah is off for whatever reason. And this is it. There's a great big intangible over Liverpool in that they've signed all these players.

8:33I mean, Isaac, it's funny, isn't it? The best two touches in this game came from Isaac and... Although, did he mean it? Verts, yes. Oh, yeah. He meant that. He meant that. There are the glimpses of what a player he is. Yeah, when he set up for Gatpo. Unfortunately, Gatpo did not have a good game apart from that. Oh, no, sorry. Sorry, I thought you meant the Wirtz one where he... Yeah, but the Wirtz one, he did mean that one. The Wirtz one, that was unbelievable, yeah. If Izak meant that, it's extraordinary. Yes, yeah. I mean, that's what you pay a hundred and whatever million for. But those, okay, the most effective touches, obviously Salah misses the chance created by Wirtz.

9:15so there probably are signs that it can work but it's it's again I made this example at the start of the season and I will celebrate myself why not the one Sebastian Verón comparison just rings out doesn't it where the football at times can be beautiful twinkle-toed stuff but it's not very effective and you've got other players like the right back spot what about Trent Alexander Alexander-Arnold, what a good player he was, it turns out. You've got Conor Bradley having a problem, isn't he? He gets booked too easily, doesn't he? That's the problem. He's not that disciplined. And Frimpong, I think among Liverpool fans, they're already saying, why did we buy this guy?

10:00And yeah, but do you know what? Let's talk about Chelsea a little bit. I was talking to the detective chief superintendent of the Celebration Police. His name is Jonathan Wilson. And he was saying about Maresca's celebration, he said, why is it after winning the seventh game of the season, is he celebrating like he's Bob Stokoe or David Pleat back in 1983? It would be great, actually, to see Enzo Maresca in a pair of moccasins and white suit. Maresca, is he a big game manager? He's beaten PSG, he's beaten Liverpool, and yet in other games, Chelsea played like a drain. when Barry says they're mysterious that's another edge to it isn't it well I suppose that's the point if you're on odd team like I said in the intro sometimes you can be bad and sometimes you can be good and it is like it's some feat Barry to beat Liverpool even if it's an out of form Liverpool when you are missing so many defenders and then another two get injured and then you right you bring on players and you do have to have like Wikipedia open at the moment if you're not a Chelsea fan to be like that guy is that guy and I don't think that's like professional irresponsibility of us I think a lot of neutrals are like, oh, okay, he was 35 million from them and he was an academy player.

11:15And, you know, and there must be part of Maresca just looking at the, you know, who he's putting on his bench and like thinking, where do they fit in a kind of whiteboard? Well, I knew they had Gissons. I knew they had Estevão. And what a performance he had in his 20 minutes. He was pretty much a man of the match performance. Set up a goal. Had a couple of shots himself. created a brilliant chance for Enzo Fernandes, which he didn't convert. But I knew about him from the Club World Cup. I knew about Mark Yu because he went on loan to Sunderland and then they took him back when the lap got injured.

11:56I think he might have played one or maybe two games for Sunderland. Hato, who's this guy? Not a clue. I think he replaced Achen Pong, who I also wasn't particularly familiar with. Maybe it is professional responsibility. Yes, it is. I do find it. Do you not watch the UEFA Conference League last season? No, I don't. Well, you told me you watched everyone that I commentated on, so obviously not. No, so Lucy, well, fill us in, Lucy, because, you know, you're the most professional of us. Well, Achampong is extremely, I mean, he should have had a lot more minutes than he's had. He's very comfortable on the ball and he's played a lot.

12:32And this is the thing about Chelsea now, is that they can bring some of these players in when they're having problems injury-wise and know that they can perform. You know, some of the places that they went to were wild. You know, like the fans, the opposition fans, whether it was Warsaw or Copenhagen, these players played in that sort of environment. And Sean, so the Champong, Tyreek George, you know, there's all these academy players. So if he needs them, he'll play them, although he's loathe to play them. That's a thing, Bereska, at times. He'll play them in the Conference League and he sort of had separate squads.

13:04but I've noticed that even though Champong is probably one of the the better even if you don't even consider him a young player who's one of these better defenders he doesn't really get a chance and I noticed as well who did I notice I was going to say Malagusto playing in midfield actually was really impressive I thought yeah I mean he's he's just I mean technically you know right back is arguably the most if you're right footed is the most simple position to play because everything's in front of you to the side you know it's not sort of 360 so if you've got that sort of technical ability as Rhys James has as well you can sort of integrate but I just think that Chelsea were the only team who were at the end of it were trying to win it and prepared to take risks and I think that was the bit that just got them over the line at the end and Estevão is going to be an unbelievable player Yeah, well that Liverpool defeat meant they were replaced at the top of the league by Arsenal they beat West Ham 2-0 Mikel Arteta's 300th game in charge the game itself completely unmemorable I would say John but it has been a really really good week for Arsenal this and Newcastle away were games they lost last season they've won those both they had a good win in the Champions League as well and it could be a title winning team this for the fourth season in a row yeah Arsenal look like contenders and this could be their year if we flip through the other contenders they have the strongest squad that is of no doubt Match of the Day did a comparison of their bench last season against West Ham, against this season against West Ham, and there really was no comparison.

14:38And so they suffer. What last season was a mortal blow, the loss of Martin Odegaard, who had been brilliant, actually, against Olympiacos in midweek. Him back to his best. It didn't knock him down. Eze moves into the centre, and they bring on Zubimendi, who is a really high-quality player, and they get the job done. And it's about getting the job done, winning those games. Okay, it's West Ham. The other match today, in fact, I enjoyed was that West Ham's last four meetings against Arsenal have featured four different managers. Yeah. Which says something about... Yes, it does. And the thing is, Arsenal have built a stability and the fact that Arteta can...

15:26The amount of defenders they've got is incredible. I mean, even Chelsea's injury crisis, they'd still be able to field a full group of internationals if he had that. They are just so full of options. I suppose the big question is if Jochores starts scoring goals. I was saying this yesterday, actually. I said, if he scores, say, half of Haaland total, say, I think Arsenal are pretty set fair. Because they're getting goals from other parts of the team. City we'll get to them are reliant on Haaland but Arsenal they look well set they really do look well set and they are not letting setbacks get to them in the same way it's not as frantic I mean I think at this time last year they were already fretting weren't they there's no need to worry they've got so many good players there shouldn't be a problem Watch that the Odegaard incident and it reminded me of injury that I learnt when I was at university that was called the unhappy triad of O'Donoghue, which is basically an NFL injury.

16:28So when you hit the knee from the outside, it damages your MCL, which is your medial collateral ligament, which I think is what Odegaard has done, your medial cartilage and your ACL. And I remember that. And when I saw it, I thought, oh, God, that could be. But I think it's just been reported that he's done his MCL, his medial collateral ligament, which is probably the best thing out of that that could have happened. So, yeah, there you are. some knowledge, some injury knowledge there for you, Baz. Don't fall asleep. What did you call it? Sorry? The unhappy triad of O'Donohue. O'Donohue, right.

17:02Who's O'Donohue? It must have happened to him first. I don't know. I don't know that much. He was an unhappy triad. He didn't really want to be in the triads. He had the tattoos, but he just didn't want to be there. Yeah, it paid the bills, didn't it? The thing is as well, winning the title is either being the best or the least worst. And obviously at the moment, Barry, you look at the rivals with Liverpool slipping and it is of course very early. You know, Liverpool slipping a bit, City could really still turn it on, right? There's no doubt about that. But like, you'd have to go, God, we've been second so many times and now the door is ajar, even this early.

17:43Yeah, well, Arsenal are now favourites to win the title. And I think they're very justified in that favouritism. The cynic in me thinks they will find a way to mess it up, but it's far too early to say it's theirs to lose. So many things could go wrong. Of course. But they are, just on the evidence of what I've seen so far, I think they are definitely in a very, very good position to win it, given their performances, their defence, their squad depth. Yeah, totally justified in their favouritism at the moment. Well, congratulations to Mikel Ateta for winning the title. Anyway, that'll do for part one.

18:23Part two will begin at Elland Road.

18:32Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly. Leeds 1, Spurs 2, Tottenham a third, Lucy. I'm not sure how good they are, but you were at this game. What did you make of it? It was all set up, wasn't it? You know, Leeds' home record, the Bain crowd and the atmosphere, the weather was absolutely horrific. I did some filming beforehand and there was a wind tunnel in the East End, which nearly took my head off. The viewers of TNT Sports managed to see my goal in Lucas Radovis' testimonial, even though it looked grainy. It was only 20 years ago, but in the cop end. So I made sure that that was played out.

19:07That made the edit. Good stuff. Good fit, wasn't it? Good goal? I didn't realise. It was a good goal against Bruce Garbalaar. So it was, you know, it's that level. Let's say no more about that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We all had a line, but none of us said it. Carry on. So Spurs, very impressed with Spurs. I'm sure we'll talk about Russell Martin later, but Thomas Frank in an example of a manager who recognises what sort of challenge you'll face him when he goes to a place like Ellen Road. And the Ellen Road crowd after the start were actually really quiet because Spurs did quite well. They got a goal and then they allowed Leeds back into it, which I thought was a good play by Calvert-Lewin, who had a really difficult afternoon against Van de Ven and Romero.

19:56What a player Romero is, by the way. I mean, obviously I've commentated him on live, but he's usually miles away. I'm usually miles, but you're out on top of it at Ellen Road. So it was quite interesting to watch. But those two are very difficult to play against, who's the centre-back. Kudos was very good. It's quite a tight game, but I just think that when they got the second goal and Leeds changed to a back three and shoved Calvert-Lewin up with the other two centre forwards and he went for it, did Daniel Farker. And he has actually been criticised a lot for the choice of his subs, timing of his subs.

20:30But I think Farker has shown that he's learnt a lot from his experiences with Norwich in the Premier League. He's not playing the same as he did last season with Leeds in the Championship, completely different. you know he's going a little bit longer he's recruited all physical players that sometimes lack a little bit of finesse but you know it's what's needed and he's got a few creative players Okafor if he sort of keeps coming good then great signing but what Thomas Frank did when they changed to a back three Leeds I could see him for a minute or so having discussions with his centre back with his coaching staff and he just then shoved on Kevin Danso and went right all right then you won't get past us now we'll just match you up and you know you don't really score from open play which Leeds don't that's what they're struggling from um and they saw it through and I just thought it was a masterclass from from Thomas Frank in dealing with what's in front of him rather than this is my philosophy and I'll do it regardless of of what happens in the end and that very impressive and Leeds were brilliant as well you know Leeds will cause lots of problems at Ellen Road.

21:35I think they need to make sure that they improve themselves in front of goal when it's not a set piece. However, set pieces might help them get wins and points this season, but a really positive start for Leeds. Lucy, what did you make of Javi Simmons? Because I think a lot of Tottenham fans are looking at him because they are missing Maddison and Kudusiewski for sort of a creative spark. Thomas Frank allowed him to just pop up anywhere. He was very effective in terms of... So when Spurs won it back, You just looked where he was. Wherever he was is where they sort of attacked down. And Leeds left it quite open.

22:08They had a quite high line with no real pressure on the ball at times. That's how they got the first goal with Tell. But I quite like Simon. There was a couple of balls that he played that they don't have anybody that can play those balls because obviously Madison's not there. And I think that might be, once he sort of finds his feet even more, I think he will be really important for Spurs. And it is, John, a game that, you know, Tottenham don't win because it's cold and wet and hard. and Leeds were good. And so that, I mean, I don't know if, those cliches do feel, that feels like it. And maybe they did have a resolve under Pochettino at times, but.

22:42I mean, actually, Pochettino departed in 2019, which is a reasonable amount of time ago. But we forget that for quite a lot, Spurs have actually been quite a decent team in the last 10 years. And there's just that, I suppose, the Mourinho period and then the Ange. I mean, they were a good team under Conte. So expectations are quite high. this is a club in transition this is a club that's just Daniel Levy has been ushered out in succession style the family are taking over the business and it's a club in turmoil and every time let's praise Thomas Frank for a guy who can instil a team to play and win at a difficult place to go and ignore all the distractions because at other clubs stuff like that starts to peel into the dressing room he's just getting on with his job it's funny you talked about Simmonds, I was told when I was at a Spurs game a couple of weeks ago that over in Holland a couple of, well one in particular keen-eyed Dutch coach was saying, why are they playing him on the left, he is not a left winger get him in the middle, you'll get the best of him and I think Frank is starting to realise that, that he can only really he's a good enough player to give a three-year-old, but it might take a little bit more time.

24:03He's come from a different league. He's not someone like James Madison that's arriving from the Premier League and is up to speed. There's a very good player there. Tottenham are going in the right direction. It's felt like a while, even though they won the Europa League last season. Strange old game, isn't it? I mean, no one on this podcast would say Javi Simms was a winger. That, I can say for certain. Any strong thoughts? Lucy mentioned Dominic Calvert-Lewin there, Barry. Another day where he had some chances. And Vicaria made a couple of good saves in this game, but Calvert-Lewin had a couple of chances.

24:37The kind of chances that he does miss. Yeah. And he missed them. I think he had three presentable chances. Sean Logstaff put a good shot just narrowly wide. Joe Roden hit the post with a header when it was still 0-0. I was very impressed with Leeds, but the last time I said they look light up front. They proceeded to score four goals in their next game. So, but they do look light up front. On another day with a slightly more consistent or clinical striker than Dominic Calvert-Lew, they might have won this game. I thought they were really good in defeat. Let's go to Old Trafford. Manchester United 2-0 Sunderland.

25:20Manchester United have won three home games in a row. The first time in over two years that's happened. Their first clean sheet of the season two. John, they're back. Ecstatic scenes as they beat Sunderland 2-0. Yeah, better. Better. That's all we can say, really. That's all Reuben Amarim was prepared to say. I was listening to Gary Neville. Gary Neville kicking back at criticism of Gary Neville, as he often does. He's going to be busy today, then. Yes, well, yes. That's a separate issue. Let's probably not discuss on this podcast. But Reuben Amarim had said, like, the pundits have been kicking up against us and he said well we use the pundits back in 1995 when alan hansen said we couldn't win anything with kids and you know we all want you to do well why why would i go to old trafford if i wanted you to lose and all this and maybe things are turning perhaps they're not we don't know but the thing is he is he made slight tactical switches diallo looked very good in that game mason mount uh is a player who is one of those players and there There aren't many of them who's looked better under Ruben Amorim than he did under previous management.

26:29Sesko, nice goal from the, I think, route one we're calling it now. Route one is a throw-ins now. Let's discuss this because we might not get to... The throw-ins, now that they're so prevalent in the game. I was chatting to some pals after the Brentford game yesterday. In football, and Lucy may know this because she's the best informed who is on actual football. can you actually lift up your teammate like you can in rugby for a throwing or is that considered some sort of infringement yeah it'll be ungentlemanly conduct or whatever they call it yeah that is yeah is that right it will be yeah they just have that section open for anything that people might think of like that john i think but also it'd be very hard actually to because a line out is going in a specific place a long throw it'd be actually i don't think i think what you'd have is just one of your players 12 feet in the air missing the ball i just don't like that but if you've got like the biggest guy in the team say he's just going to get in the way of the ball i mean because when i was watching harland essentially is the leading man he's the block forward i wrote this in my match report you know he's the lock forward that's like he's the target for the when the opposing hooker is throwing in the ball i mean it's we've got to this strange situation where it's it is like watching a rugby line out when Coyote for it's just So we'll see Highland coming out now with those little handles scrapped to his thighs so his teammates can get additional purchase You'll be able to lift him, it'll take about six to lift him up.

28:04But the odd thing is isn't the odd thing that you know long throws have always been quite useful perhaps not as useful as you know that suddenly just how, you know, sort of like chic football teams are that everyone's gone, well, this seems totally, this seems like a really good idea. Like, it just seems odd that there weren't just a few teams always doing it. Or maybe they were. Like, everyone's just gone, why don't I just lump it in the box? Who thought of this? Do you know what? Quite a lot of them probably didn't know they could do a long throw. When I was working for the Premier League in COVID and you had, I was going around to Sheffield United to check that they were doing all the processes right.

28:43They weren't going too close to each other, etc. They were on the training ground. I was watching training and Chris Wilder and Alan Nill, they were working out set pieces. And Jack Robinson picked the ball up and went, oh, I'll have a go. And then absolutely arrowed this long throw. And he did it. And nobody attacked it. Everybody just went, why did you not say you could do that? And then from then on, Jack Robinson, every time I see him, he's not playing for them anymore, but a few years after he played for them, and he would take these long throws. And they were like, how the hell? Why did you?

29:16He said, well, I did know I could do it. Well, why didn't you say? Because that is so effective. And they used it quite a bit after that. It was quite amusing. Barry, what did you make of Sané Lammond's debut in goal? I mean, he got a clean sheet. Fans were thinking, are you Schmeichel in disguise? He did everything that was needed to do, I guess. I was kind of surprised he was brought in after what I would say was Binder's probably his best game for United last week. but Lamins came in he made a couple of decent saves I think you'd expect him to make them nothing out of the top drawer particularly because Sunderland didn't really offer much in this game apart from the chance Bertrand Traore missed when it was still scoreless but clean sheet on debut you can't do much better than that I suppose but he didn't have a great deal to do but anything he did have to do he did quite well apart from one little rush of blood where he charged out of his penalty area and got away with it i'm actually that triore miss there was some conjecture on the radio yesterday barry about whether it was offside and so not a bad miss but i don't think triore knew it was offside john and that would have changed the whole complexion of this game was that three minutes in if sunderland take the lead it is very different yeah yeah because the uh Manchester United's sense of self is so lacking at the moment, and fans at Old Trafford as well, that it would have been United in crisis again, and the world turns to Old Trafford.