Arsenal hammer Manchester City and the EFL kicks off – Football Weekly

0:00This is The Guardian.

0:30can tell me if he's brilliant or not that good because I've never been able to work it out. Then to the EFL, Zean Fleming hits two late ones as Burnley hold West Ham. Wolves also draw. Middlesbrough leave at late against Lincoln while fancied Norwich and Southampton both lose. And one Portsmouth fan has already ripped up his season ticket. In League One, Cambridge are fifth. And in League Two, why do you fancy Salford get battered? Elsewhere, there's the brobbiest brobby, brobby, brobby goal to discuss. Your questions, and that's today's Guardian Football Weekly.

0:58On the panel today, Will Unwin, welcome. Hello, Max. Happy new season, Meadow Lane and then Turf Moor. The season has really begun for you. Sani Rudrovadula, hello. Hello, yes, I'm back. Good to see you. And welcome, Ben Fisher. Hi, Max. Right, let's start the Community Shield. Arsenal 3, Man City 0. Ben, you were there. Talk us through it. Yeah, well, it was quite the convincing performance from Arsenal, wasn't it? It felt like they were kind of, as you alluded to, Max, with the third goal, the Odegaard goal, felt like they were toying with Manchester City, which is something we don't see very often.

1:30Obviously, Enzo Mareska's first kind of meaningful game in charge. And it couldn't really have gone probably too much worse. And for Arsenal, it was just really quite perfect, probably until Declan Rice hit himself with the kind of floppy part of the stand of the actual shield itself while he was sort of tossing it to and fro. He styled that out well, didn't he? He did, he just owned it. But yeah, it felt like one of those games where everything kind of just came off for Arsenal and Mikel Arteta. Like Myles Lewis-Skelly, there's been a lot of noise around him. The suggestion he's been sort of offered to clubs.

2:08And yet he was brilliant for Arsenal. Set up the first goal inside, what, 24 seconds. A real superb sort of reverse ball. Rolled Phil Foden. great finish from Calafiore and from there it was just it was one way traffic really City had a couple of chances but it was they were tame really at best it was a good sort of encouraging 45 minute debut for Bruno obviously another new signing and Christos Solis was probably the pick of the players really played the full game set up two was actually involved in all three goals thought Ben White was good there were just so many positives for Arsenal but not too many for Manchester City and Maresca.

2:49Just on solid spend, because a lot of people listening probably won't have seen much of him, if any of him. Give us an idea of what kind of player he is, because you're right. I think I was slightly surprised when Trossard left and you think, OK, who have they got down that side because Martinelli's not necessarily going to stay? We don't know. And I thought he was just excellent. Yeah, and maybe some of us maybe forget he was in England before at Norwich. it didn't really work out at that point. He's obviously come back now for decent money, I think 34 million. But Arteta said afterwards that the beauty of Zollis is in that final 20 to 30 metres of the pitch.

3:26That's where he comes alive. His final ball, his execution of the pass is really good. But actually, for the second goal, for Havertz, the way he kind of craned his neck and extended himself to head across goal was maybe something we weren't expecting to see from this kind of you know perceived sort of jinky winger he kind of showed that he's got the lot really it was a really really impressive um debut from him and obviously his pass for the third as well which Odegaard took really well yeah and that goal Sanny Odegaard even smiles doesn't he like like when Donnarumma sat down I put in the group I think the greatest sitting down of a keeper which is Glenn Hoddle for Tottenham v Oxford I I think in his last game for Tottenham, or his last game at White Hart Lane, before he went to Monaco, where he drops the shoulder and the whole defence disappear.

4:14And then he just feigns to shoot and the keeper sits down. But there's just something so... It's just watching a footballer in total control of what is happening. And that was... Actually, that was Odegaard for pretty much all this game. Yes, it was. And it was a lovely sitting down. However, I put it to you, Max, that Donnarumma spent quite a lot of time sitting down. Okay. So it's not sitting down a keeper if he's already sitting down. Well, yeah. I mean, look, the first goal as well, he did the same thing. In fact, he did genuinely what I do at five-a-side in goalkeeping because I can only really dive left.

4:51And I'm not very good, but I dive early. So every now and then I pull off like a mad save only because I've dived before they've shot and I've just gone all the way to the left. They're like, oh, great. And there was quite a bit of that, certainly for those two goals. And I wonder, because he's still only young, isn't he? But he's been playing since he was a child. has he has he aged early you know trafford's gone and you can't you can't age he's 27 you can't not be able to dive right like that is not like when you get to 27 that is real i mean to be fair once i've played 11 aside the next day i can only get on the bike from one side i'm like a horse refusing a fence on the other one but the idea that donnarumma can now only dive one way is spectacular that would be the yeah the most spectacular fall off ever i'm sure he still can dive right but there was just something in there i think because he's you know i'm one to speak losing your hair at a younger age and he just seems a little bit slow maybe because he's so lumbering and so big it just very easily kind of plays into this image of him kind of aging rapidly and then you know you go keep like a 40 year old man at stockport power league that'll that'll make it look even more more clear yeah he could producer Joel saying he could quickly turn around and dive left facing the wrong way it's tricky to pull off the save the no look safe yeah well I mean just on the Erdegaard performance Will because I thought it was really good and he wasn't amazing last year I mean he was injured a lot right but like if Arsenal if suddenly Erdegaard you know because we spend so much time thinking about new signing but if suddenly Odegaard starts playing as well as he can.

6:28That's absolutely enormous for Arsenal. Firstly, I hope none of Sani's five-side opponents are listening because they're just going to shoot right from now on. Oh, there he is, yeah. Trust me, trust me, there's no need for tactics. It's a Monday night division too. Yeah, I mean, Odegaard's always been that sort of classy player, you know, the lovely touch, the lovely pass, the lovely free ball. And I think a lot of time with that, it takes rhythm, maybe a bit of confidence from the World Cup and things after a difficult season may have helped possibly the fact that Manchester City's midfield didn't really exist may have been beneficial for him at times on Sunday but as I say with the finish it is that of a confident man and those things where you're just working on instincts is really helped by being confident and when you have that and all those things are clicking then you are at your best and he had a bit of motivation from Arteta and whatnot.

7:27And you probably know you have to up your game, you know, it's make or break. And if you want to be a Premier League winner in a Champions League club and you want to be an integral part, you've got to up it. And he just gave those indications that it was all connecting for him. And so hopefully for him and for Arsenal, you'll see the best of him in those roles and that he can have that influence that maybe was lacking and maybe more starts that he needs to build that momentum. so especially with a big season with lots of games it'll be good to see the sort of player everyone really likes isn't he Yeah and actually if we want Arsenal to play more entertaining football like him being fit and in there is just naturally going to happen and you talked about Lewis Skelly Ben it's so interesting this idea and it's sort of widely thought that they are trying to offer him to other Premier League clubs you sort of think after that pass which you described perfectly.

8:21It's such a brilliant pass. You obviously can still sell a player after they've just set up the only goal in the Community Shield, but it almost feels mad now to go, yeah, we'll let this guy with this talent go and make another Premier League side better. Yeah, it should definitely be that little bit harder, you'd imagine, to get rid after that. And I also think a big thing with somebody like Lewis Skelly is that relationship with him in the fans, which again, you can still sell a player because they have a strong relationship the fans but yesterday like the the positivity the sort of willingness for him to do well sort of throughout the game the the joy they have from seeing somebody like that who's come through the system perform I think those players are really important in the same way that we sort of want Odegaard to thrive because he you know he's the captain the way he plays I think there's a beauty of having a player like that in the team and not just in the team for the wrong reasons but I think you know yesterday there's no reason you know he was one of the one of the best players on the pitch so yeah I think he should stay but Arsenal obviously do have to offload some players Gabriel Martinelli Warneri weren't in the in the squad yesterday I think they could maybe both leave but you know all the while people like Lewis Scali probably feel like they've seized their chance and actually Sonny you know their title last year was built on an amazing defense and they've got no Saliba but they still defended and City weren't brilliant in this game but City created a bit and also defended brilliantly and you know those last ditch blocks that they're kind of known for and Gabrielle did well Ben White did a brilliant one at some point in the game you know like the strength they have at the back which you might start to ignore if they start playing really free-flowing football is still there yes it is and Ben White who's had so many injuries and issues yeah his in particular was it was a really great block wasn't it and yet just when you think Maybe that's the one issue when Saliba went holding his various parts of himself during the World Cup when he went down.

10:15You think, well, are you going to go in the transfer market? And for that reason, although Lewis Skelly isn't a centre-half, is he? But breaking up those players who know what it's like to defend in that side is maybe not a wise move. Add to that Calafiore as well. He's been on the fringes, hasn't he? somehow you're coming into the fore here and it's an opportunity for all those those fringe defenders to get their opportunity and um and show what they can do and ben white kind of epitomized that but to have taken apart city in the way they did and be so clear at the back so so resolute at the back and of course got david riah behind that as well uh i think i think you could actually take more than that than i kind of was expecting we could this season well man city then obviously there are you know it was Maresca's first competitive game if it's a competitive game it didn't go brilliantly what are your takeaways yeah I mean obviously there's two sides to it there's a bit of context of City had three pre-season friendlies where half the squad wasn't there and people like Anderson, Haaland only turned up this week for their first interactions in person with Maresca obviously no Rodri who's on his way so this creation of a new midfield I think Kusen off at right back is a bit of a disaster.

11:29I don't think he's got the technical ability or the positioning to do it. Clearly, there are problems, but again, it was the first competitive game for Maresco. But equally, City have known what they're like without Rodri for a very, very long time because they've missed him when he's been absent for injury. Having a solution to that beforehand may have been advisable. I know Anderson struggled, but he obviously is a really good player and he could do it, but I think they'd need a different dynamic in there. And this is why they want Buwadi, who's expensive for an 18-year-old from Lille. Because that midfield clearly just needs a rebuild.

12:09Silva's gone, that experience has gone, Rodri's going. Kovacic doesn't really look up to it. You've got people like Nico Gonzalez who have never particularly looked up to it. so you've got to hope that Anderson and Bawadi and then potentially someone like Enzo Fernandes can create a midfield yeah and it's so hard you take three players that have never played together one of whom is 18 Enzo is I mean hit and miss is perhaps too strong yeah and Anderson is not Rodri right we know that he's such a brilliant player Anderson he's just not that he's not like Rodri is Tony Crowes right that that is what he is is that fair?

12:45Bawadi is sort of seen as the most natural fit as that defensive infielder in front of a bat four. Again, none of them really cover themselves in glory yesterday. Cavadillo looked a bit shaky in Diaz as well, and again, Donnarumma was poor. So when you are trying to rebuild a side, having those experienced players performing well is advisable, so at least give some hope. Why is Tijani Reinders, by the way? Why is he going to Saudi? Isn't he in the night 24? He's too slow. He doesn't move the ball. Really? He's not faster, is he? No, but I mean, obviously different roles, I'd say for starters, but I think you'll find this season, Maresca will play at a higher temper than Guardiola has in recent years.

13:28And Reinders just doesn't fit into any of that. I mean, never really found a position that he looks suitable with at City. and I've sort of wider point I think Hugo Viana's transfer dealings are going to be heavily scrutinised this window because people like Reinders hasn't worked and so he's got to get it right which is a lot of pressure there as well and so Mareska's not now got time to you know sign him probably going to have to be two players it'll be Boardi whether it's Enzo Fernandes or not it'll be interesting to see it 120 million quid and obviously he's a bit more of an attacking player trying to work out how you fit two of those three together each game will be interesting.

14:09But he hasn't got much time to do it. He's not had the Anderson since he's arrived. His first time is like, oh, it's a couple of training sessions. You have a crack at Arsenal. They're not. See how you get on. And he didn't look great. And he'll probably miss. Like that injury didn't look great. We don't know what it is quite yet. And Kovacic again, he struggled with fitness for a while. It is complicated. what do you think the expectations are obviously you know the city don't tend to be a panicking club no and obviously we understand that pep leaves that is quite a big deal and it is only the community shield right they might they might win their first five games well what's the what are the expectations because by all accounts the players at chelsea loved mareska the players here the ones that have known him i don't know how many are still there from his city time at city but like they he's popular with players but like that isn't that is key but it's not everything I mean, we say that City don't panic, but they did sign five players in the January transfer window a couple of seasons back.

15:10So sort of completely changed the face of the squad mid-season. I think when you've spent that amount of money, when you've got players that have won the league and European Cups and whatnot, the expectation will always be that they have to challenge and effectively bounce back from what's seen as a sub-par season. especially in Europe. So the plan is to challenge. It has to be. You can't look at that setup, what's being invested and go, we can give it another season, see how it works out. They've got to push on, they've got to progress and whether they can, it'll be interesting. I say I'm not putting too much weight on Sunday's performance because there's barely been a pre-season.

15:58I think Arsenal have six pre-season games before that and I appreciate they've had similar issues with players not being there. And their players that came in, they came into a functioning team with the head coach that was there last season and they're just tweaking things, whereas Rescure's trying to change the nature of the team with the style being a bit more, let's say, accelerated in possession and things like that and a different set up within the defensive midfield. But obviously alongside that, it's pretty chastening to get absolutely thumped and conceded a goal after 25 seconds. And all those goals yesterday were so easy.

16:35Calafiore through ball, no one nearing really. One to the back post where Kusinov completely misses it and no one there to even get close to stopping the header going in and Odegaard just sort of walking for everyone. And actually, Donnarumma did dive left for that one and he still didn't stop the Havertz header thinking about it, did he? Ben, what did you make of City? Yeah, I mean, it's interesting because as Will alluded to, I think City had three games. That was Arsenal's sixth game before the season. And I do wonder, do we have to use that caveat of match sharpness for want of a better phrase?

17:12Because all of the goals City were nowhere to be seen. It was a bit slow, particularly the third. Odegaard snapped in, nicked the ball, obviously a great finish. But you just wonder, will that come with City? I don't know. I think Anderson was particularly, sort of unusually overwhelmed. We've not really seen that. I've not seen that really in Nottingham Forest. He was just so consistent. And for England, we have to say, he kind of just slotted in. So I probably expected him just to slot in and kind of carry on where he left off with Man City. But yeah, I don't know. I thought they were poor. I mean, Donnarumma was alarming really in goal.

17:50Defensively, it was very open. but I do wonder whether that kind of sharpness and that crispness will come. I think the squad's still just, there's too many good players there, surely. You know, will that be maybe in a few weeks' time we'll sort of look at that or a few months and think that was kind of the worst performance that they've put in under Mareska, perhaps. Possible. Yeah, I guess when they've got Doku and Semenyo and Harlan, if they all play well, they should create quite a lot, right? Semenyo, I thought yesterday, was extremely quiet for a player of his kind of quality and the way we've seen him attack the league.

18:21so that's a case in point really. I don't think I've seen him that quiet, that muted. Obviously, Cherky off the bench. Again, we saw what he can do last season. So, I mean, Jack Grealish was interesting yesterday coming on for his first appearance, I think since May 25 for City. I kind of half forgot he was a Man City player and certainly afterwards, Mareska didn't seem too enthused about the idea of him sticking around so it'd be interesting where he does go. I had to write the team news up for City on Friday at the press conference and to be honest I forgot that Jack Grealish was a City player I hope he goes somewhere fun, Jack Grealish Speaking of transfers, Rod Riet is off to Barca for£65 million Japan's Zion Suzuki, looks like he said he's a Villa he was due to go to PSG, that fell through so it could mean Emi Martinez is going somewhere Coventry have signed Taiwo Awanyi Sao Paulo, yes Ben I was just going to say, Martínez's thing at Villa is interesting thing I think obviously he's been there I think six years six seasons um has been such an influential player for them but this the timing of this is is not as far from ideal I mean last season there was the sense that Martinez made it quite clear that he quite liked to move on I think he wanted to go to Manchester United he was crying and saying goodbye and then yeah he said his goodbyes and then obviously had to stick around and this time I think he's sort of done similar, maybe minus the crying.

19:47Villa have moved for Suzuki, who I can't claim to have seen loads of, but lots of people tell me he's very good. Lots of Premier League clubs have watched him. It does feel that there's a good high chance that we could see Suzuki come in quite soon. I think that deal's quite advanced. Martinez will still be a Villa player, which is quite awkward. Now it's on Villa to try and shift him, because if Suzuki comes in, he'll come in to be number one. I think that's fair. Yeah, Martinez doesn't give you happy second keeper vibes, does he? And then we'd be forgetting Marco Bissot. So I think, yeah, I don't know.

20:27I think that's kind of a problem Una Emery could do without, to be honest. And it's been already, obviously, a summer of quite a lot of turbulence. Yeah, Jamie Vardy has been approached by Sal Paolo. That would be fun. He's assessing several options. Sheffield Wednesday wants to bring him in. That's where he started his career. Interestingly, in Sao Paulo, no advertising. In the street, no advertising hoardings. Until someone tells you, you think you don't notice. And then you're like, this is weird just having no billboards unless it's changed in the last decade. But, you know, there's my Sao Paulo fact.

21:00And Christian Romero had gone to Atleti. And, Sani, I wrote a column about this because I just can't work out if he was good or not, if he was brilliant or hopeless. And because he was always about to get sent off, even though he only got sent off four times for Tottenham. It felt like something more. I was almost permanently annoyed with him or like pre-annoyed with him. It rendered any objective judgment sort of impotent. I couldn't do it. I couldn't view him as a player because I was just ready to get annoyed with what he was just about to do or not do. So can you give me an objective like one-minute appraisal of Christian Romero at Tottenham?

21:36I don't know. I don't know if anyone can. Can they? Can they? Yeah, a man who's just turned up to 100 all the time. But yeah, I've got a lot of stats in front of me. Two red cards, nine yellows last season. And he only played, what, 22 games, 22 starts in the Premier League last season? So he wasn't like, you know, and then add all the Instagram stuff and all the comments. So I don't know if anyone can objectively say Christian Romero was good or not at Spurs. Fine. I'm happy if no one can. That's the modern player. He did play brilliantly in the Europa League final. Although I guess the bar was low for anyone playing well in that game.

22:16But still, him at Athletic should be what we want to see. Do you think he was a good captain, Max? I think that was my kind of problem, I suppose, with him. I just feel like he just let the team down, let his teammates down on too many occasions. And even stuff like sort of behind the scenes, for want of a better phrase, I was aware that there was things where often and if Spurs get thumped, the captain comes out to talk and he's basically point-blank refusing to do it. I just think if you're the captain, you've got to own that. You've got to go full Declan Rice to take you on the chin. I think to avoid that, he did keep coming up with quite a few late goals just maybe to avoid having to go out to face the press.

22:57I think I scored Burnley. He was everywhere. That's the thing. He's all action. Those players are rare, but then they're also more rare if you keep getting suspended and you can't actually play. And then you also say you want to leave on Instagram every now and then. We are going to do our Premier League previews this week. They're going to be out on Wednesday and Thursday. Me, Barry, Jonathan Wilson, Filippo Clare, Jordan, Jareb Ryan, Nicky Bandini. We'll go to all 20 teams alphabetically as we do every year. But the EFL started the weekend and we'll get on to that.

23:35Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly. we have live shows Dublin on the 1st of September the Soho Theus of Walthamstow on the 9th of September go to theguardian.co.uk slash footballweeklylive and come they will both be brilliant right to the championship then Will and Sani both at Turf Moor for Burnley 2 West Ham 2 and Sani like too late goals from ZM Fleming but like he could have had about 8 like it felt to me that that was the least Burnley deserved out of this one yeah from the off Burnley were really at it Aaron Ramsey in the middle with a load of chances, dragging them wide.

24:11Having been to Burnley, me and Will seem to always end up at Burnley. I don't know why it is. We're always there. Sometimes I've gone and not even messaged him checking he's there, and I've got to roll the dice and see if he's there. He's the first face I saw when I entered the stadium yesterday. And often those appearances and those games have been quite dull and not really turgid, especially the Scott Parker team that won promotion. Remember that, what was it, nine goals or something mad like that? This was totally different under Nicky Hayen. Yes, the former Haverford West manager who went on to bigger and better things, all respect to the Cymru League.

24:48And yet he kind of threw it at it. I've always kind of felt like Zian Fleming. I'm not quite sure if he's a centre forward to lead the line necessarily. I always feel like he could play off a bit more. But then such is the situation at Burnley and the options he's had, he's often led the line and did okay last season, got quite a few goals relatively. in the Premier League, but he had so many chances. There was a point, and I was reporting for Five Live and I mentioned on air, he was averaging a chance every five minutes in the second half, literally every five minutes. It ended up with, you'll like this reference, Max, he did the Darren Anderton Euro 96, he headed it onto the post and it went right back into the goalkeeper's hands, Andreas Kupka's hands.

25:31It's so rare to see that and it's so increasingly demoralizing for you to hit the post and the keeper just stood there just catches it yeah and then the keeper like plays on you sort of think the keeper should do a bit more react a bit more than just like well i've got the ball i'll just carry obviously you just carry on playing but there's a bit of you that thinks acknowledge that this almost went yeah like collapse yeah yeah exactly um yeah one off the line as well and then yeah two goals late on maybe a deflection in one like uh west ham played quite a lot of youngsters and one of them gave away a penalty that Fleming then converted, needlessly flying in.

26:05I think it was Scarls. And then Fleming in the last minute with the equaliser. It was what they deserved. They were entertaining. And just some of the context around Burnley this season, they were bought in a leveraged mire in the way that the Glazers bought Manchester United. So the most recent accounts, which are not the most up-to-date ones, obviously, but they are over£140 million in debt. the sponsor, the shirt sponsor, they had to pull out a deal of that due to, I don't know, whoever they were. Burnley previously had sponsored them. Finitive One. Yes. And refunds or exchanges have been offered to fans who bought shirts with Finitive One on the front.

26:45Yeah, I did see quite a few fans just walking around with this shirt. Like, I'm like, you can just exchange it for, like, the normal one, the new one, whatever. So there's all that going on. And I met a dad and his daughter. It was her first ever season to wear the season ticket. And he was, like, really kind of down, I don't know what to expect here. We desperately need to get out of this division. And if they don't, then things will end up being really, really bad. Meanwhile, West Ham are actually much more favoured by all the experts and weren't great in this game. I would say they were pretty poor, considering what they've got available to them.

27:23Jared Pobre, pretty quiet. Pablo Felipe not 100 % convinced as a footballer still, an anonymous 45 minutes, but they were just so conservative. In the first five minutes, they were getting bashed around by Burnley, pretty lucky not to concede, and then fortunately got the goal, a nice delivery header, because Aaron Ramsey completely lost Kilmer. And I thought that, right, you've got your foundation, you've got a decent starting XI, you can go and push back at them, but nothing really. The two goals for West Ham yesterday were their only two shots on target, which sort of shows the level of conservative within the Nuno set up.

28:07And the bench, they had five academy graduates on, clearly didn't want to play, didn't bring any of them on. So the strength in depth is questionable. I know they brought Engels on Saturday, definitely need a striker. Tati Castellanos got absolutely nothing, got really frustrated in the end and just absolutely whacked into Walker quite dangerously whilst he was jumping. Nuno came into the press conference afterwards and was barely audible, which I just assumed was a sign of how upset he was with the whole thing. But they need bodies if they're going to compete over a 46-game season. And I appreciate, I think Burnley had a lot more questions over them before the start yesterday.

28:46They answered quite a few. Again, Fleming, a lot of mischances. It feels a little bit like last season. if you had the chances and you messed it up. But at least they've given their fans a little bit of hope for the season, a little bit of excitement, which is definitely going to happen to Parker. Whereas West Ham must be looking at it and going, yeah, we need to spend. And there's got a lot of players, obviously there's sold quite a few players like Somerville, Fernandes. We've got a few players out of the squad who they're looking to sell on decent money. But yeah, I think Stryker's got to be the first ambition for Nuno.

29:18But I'd also argue has to be a bit more ambitious with what he's got on the pitch. You've got people like our Premier League players and Solomon, who is, you know, Castellanos is a£20 million player, got to just actually say, we are West Ham. We're going to go win the league because we're better than everyone rather than sort of quite negative football. Yeah, what's the Star Wars analogy when a dying Jedi goes inaudible in the championship? I'm not sure. Yeah, Middlesbrough fancied by a lot, Ben. Beat Lincoln too. One made hard work of it, but, you know, talk about players missing chances. Will Langs just started really well for them.